Free Range Naturism

Naturism => Free Range Naturism => Topic started by: Bob Knows on August 29, 2017, 01:46:34 PM

Title: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on August 29, 2017, 01:46:34 PM
OMG!  I was seen by a 13 year old female.  Her life is ruined.  Oh the trauma. 

Yesterday afternoon about 4 PM I went out to get my mail as I often do.  Its a nice little walk naked in the sunshine.  It normally takes me about 15 minutes to walk down there and back.  Being naked is legal here unless you are doing something “indecent” or are intending to cause someone else to be alarmed or affronted.  Minding your own business such as getting your mail naked is neither of those so its legal.  My mailbox is on the far side of a public road.  The last 300 feet of my driveway is visible from the road, but has thin woods on either side.   

Yesterday as I walked toward the mail box I was perhaps 75 feet from the public road when I heard a car approaching.  I don't want to be accused of intending to affront a passing person so I turned and walked away from the road while a black car passed headed south.  My thinking is that anyone who sees only the backside of a naked person would have a hard time convincing police or prosecutor that I was intending to cause him to be alarmed or affronted.  I was probably 200 feet away from the public road when he went past. 

After the black car passed I turned toward my mailbox again.  I heard vehicle noise from south and soon decided it was too loud for the black sedan that had passed.  I moved back somewhat from the road but not as far.  Soon two large pickup trucks towing long trailers went past going north.  Their long trailers each had part of the header off a wheat harvester combine.  Those harvesters have gotten so big that their cutting header must be removed and turned end-wise to travel on a road from one field to the next.  This one apparently came out in two pieces that I would guess to be about 36 feet long.  I stood there watching them pass going north. 

After the farm machinery passed, I once again began walking toward my mail box.  As I near the public road I always look for (rare) pedestrian traffic.  This time there were two women north of me walking south toward me.  Once again I turned and walked up my driveway away from the public road.  I had not gotten as far as the corner of my driveway when the women passed.  I was perhaps 300 feet or about 100 meters and walking away with an open driveway for them to look down as they passed.  I thought about giving up, so much traffic today, but after they had passed I turned and began walking toward my mail again.  When I finally arrived at the public road I could see them quite a distance to the south and walking away.   That was far enough and their backs were turned so I walked across the road and got a small package and two letters from the box.  I looked again as I walked back across the road toward my driveway.  The two women had rounded a curve and passed out of sight. 

Half an hour later I was sitting by my computer and noticed a pickup truck arriving up my driveway.  I debated with myself whether to answer my door naked, but decided to put on some shorts and go see who it was.  I arrived at the front of my house when the door bell rang,.  It was one of  my neighbors.  He explained his concern that his 13 year old daughter had seen me naked.  (Oh the horror.)  He said he understood my freedom on my own land, but his daughter often walks on the public road, and he doesn't want her seeing me getting the mail.   He said he doesn't mind me doing whatever I like on my own place, and has seen me getting my mail himself in the past.  But, hes said, his daughter should not see.  He suggested maybe I should wait until after dark to get my mail.  Well, I thought, after 10 years of going naked it seems that my intentional neighborhood reputation as “that old naked codger” has worked. 

I thought about arguing that his daughter had not been harmed, and in fact was educated about her own species by casually observing another human, but I didn't want to engage in argument.  I promised to look more carefully when approaching the road to see if anyone was out walking.  That seemed to satisfy his need to rant, so he agreed to that plan and left. 

His daughter and whomever she was with probably had been giggling about “that naked man” when they arrived home.  I never got close enough to them for me to see any details to estimate their ages or other description.  From 300 feet or so their shapes appeared to be female.  They would have needed very sharp vision to see any details about me from that distance.  Her father felt a need to “protect” his daughter by ranting to the naked guy.  Purity must be preserved.  We have to pretend that hormonal 13 year old females are still “children,” and they aren't thinking about men every 6 minutes.  Seeing a man, even at a distance, might teacher her the wrong message, or cause her a psychological trauma.  Heck, it may even give her an idea that its OK to be seen going naked in the woods.  Now that I think about it, she may walk more often to get another look. 

I'm going to count this as a negative encounter while roaming naked in the world.  The young women were not harmed, and probably enjoyed the view, but the encounter resulted in negative push back from our anti-body culture.  I observed that the encounter had not resulted in police arriving at my door.  Either father had not reported to police, or the police may have understood its legal to get your mail naked.  Either way my reputation as “that old naked codger” is affirmed, and I didn't promise not to get my mail naked. 

Recent photo
(http://photos.bradkemp.com/12%20mailbox%201.jpg)
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on August 30, 2017, 12:13:58 AM
Bob, it sounds like a dad doing what he thought was the right thing without any thought.
Would have been better if he just told them that it takes all types to make up the world.

More than likely you are right about the kids reaction judging from their reaction on the road.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 30, 2017, 09:32:30 AM
Its always, the "what about the kids" guys who get offended for they who are merely curious. All that he said was bunk. Caring for a daughter is good , but shouldn't be so misguided.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on August 30, 2017, 11:10:30 AM
my daughter is now 22


when we were abroad on holidays i made sure we always visited at least one beach with nude persons on it .
working on the theory that if a adolescent girl has seen naked men as nothing unusual she wont be at all curious to see what any of her social group look like naked in innapropriate circumstances.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on August 30, 2017, 03:02:19 PM
my daughter is now 22


when we were abroad on holidays i made sure we always visited at least one beach with nude persons on it .
working on the theory that if a adolescent girl has seen naked men as nothing unusual she wont be at all curious to see what any of her social group look like naked in innapropriate circumstances.


Very effective parenting.  Every child needs to learn about his or her own species by casually observing a wide variety of others of his or her species. 
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on August 31, 2017, 06:50:08 AM
Too many parents make life hard for their children by trying, too zealously, to make it easy for them.   -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

If your kids know no hardship of any stripe they will not know how to deal with them when they 1st encounter them. And life should be all about finding what is new.

Besides, kids are tougher and more resilient than we know.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on September 03, 2017, 06:43:54 AM
OMG!  Someone stole my driveway decorations.   I left the house Friday about 10 AM for an International  Bigfoot Conference being held in Kennewick, WA, about 2 hours drive away.  My driveway decorations were GONE!    Not that they were very valuable, but thievery makes one feel vulnerable.   

(http://photos.bradkemp.com/11%20lughnassad%20decorations%201.jpg)

The green aluminum rabbit and the whirling sunflower both vanished overnight.  Our trash pickup is Friday morning early.  The thief could have tossed them both into our trash bin which is only about 10 feet away from the decorations.   The bin was empty by the time I left the house.  Or, the thief may have carried them off. 

I suspect vandalism by the guy who bitched and moaned about me being naked walking past the driveway decorations to get my mail.  I have no way to know if he had anything to do with it, but the timing is coincidental.   
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on September 09, 2017, 12:02:55 AM

If it was your neighbour with the daughter that removed or binned the ornaments, that that's a pathetically small minded bit of pointless vandalism.  What does he think it will achieve?  Surely can't have been him?
But taking the paranoid stance, maybe there's more to come - keep vigilant and safe, friend Bob.


However, if someone took away those particular objects from my front yard, I should thank him!


John


(...now you'll tell me they were a family heirloom or of deeply sentimental value or something and I'll feel guilty as hell for poking fun at them!!)
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on September 09, 2017, 12:24:10 AM

However, if someone took away those particular objects from my front yard, I should thank him!
John

We change the decoration regularly depending on the season.  The rotating sunflower was our summer decoration.  The green cast metal rabbit was kind of our icon.  Its been part of this place since we first began construction in about 2005. 

(http://glenconey.com/photos/gnome%20and%20bunny1.JPG)
http://www.glenconey.com/glenconey2

I was getting ready to switch to a fall harvest decoration.  Now I'm not so sure.
(http://photos.bradkemp.com/4falldecorations2.jpg)
Our harvest decoration from last year.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on September 09, 2017, 01:05:47 AM

I have to admit, we have a stone rabbit in the garden left by our predecessors.  My wife likes it so we keep it outside the utility room window.  From the Fall decorations I can see the point more now - just advertise a jolly character to your entrance and amuse the passing motorist.  :D
John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on September 09, 2017, 05:17:04 AM
My gnome is a sauna god. He's naked, but for a tall hat.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Peter S on September 09, 2017, 07:51:35 AM
There's a God of saunas?
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on September 09, 2017, 11:09:12 PM
Of course. Sweat/sauna is a spiritual ritual all over the planet. There are little entities known to be everywhere, by cultures, so there are sauna gods. There is a presence, peace, and sacred something at my place, as reported by several participants. It's cozy, open, naked in many ways besides skin. It is a place to heal, rejuvenate, meditate, connect with others. It is a social gathering spot. It can function in most of the capacities of a church, complete with singing, prayer and liturgy. It is safe, warm and sensual, an earthy womb. So, why be surprised that there are sauna gods and why be surprised that a company that manufactures ceramic gnomes would not make a cute naked one. He is a very friendly looking kinda guy:
https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/876376-exhart-14-multi-color-naked-gnome.html
It is good to know that someone is watching over the sauna when you are gone and greets you any day that you enter. It makes it more than just an empty box. It is much better than taking a sauna alone. It helps to maintain a warm and friendly atmosphere when anyone walks in the door, as he is cute, and naked clear down to his big bumpy butt. He lets people know that nude is not lewd, and healthy body acceptance is something even a gnome must have. 
Jbee :)
 
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on September 10, 2017, 12:33:41 AM
Not to mess with the topic drift, I'll continue this about sauna gods over at the "All Things Sauna" thread, with some documentation.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on September 11, 2017, 05:56:22 AM
It’s sad to say Bob, but maybe now would be a good time to try out one of those wildlife monitoring cameras. Just might find out who it is.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on September 11, 2017, 05:23:01 PM
It’s sad to say Bob, but maybe now would be a good time to try out one of those wildlife monitoring cameras. Just might find out who it is.

Duane

Good idea.  I had one a while back but it died.  Maybe I'll get a new one. 

Bob
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: naked pedro on October 01, 2017, 12:13:28 AM
I've had so many folk saying "I'm not bothered, myself, but what about the neighbours or so and so or the children?" Pfft!
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Patrick1951 on October 08, 2017, 07:10:21 AM
I totally agree with you! Anybody who complains about  seeing you nude in your own property is  a "peeping  pervert" & needs arresting.every garden should have a place where one may sit in the nude, drinking gin 8D
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on October 08, 2017, 04:08:35 PM
I totally agree with you! Anybody who complains about  seeing you nude in your own property is  a "peeping  pervert" & needs arresting.every garden should have a place where one may sit in the nude, drinking gin 8D


I believe that everyone should have a place where they mind their own F'ing business and stop trying to control the lives and clothes of other people.

Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on October 16, 2017, 10:25:19 PM

A bit over 2 years ago we were looking at relocating. I needed to find some privacy to be naked outdoors.  We saw many properties and I would resist any one where the garden was too overlooked.  In fact a most beautiful and ideal property we turned down because it was badly overlooked and despite my wife's attempts to smooth over this, I would not consider it.  Being in the same village as we eventually ended up we got to know the eventual occupants and another couple in an adjacent house.  They now complain how overlooked they are.
After a goodly number of properties viewed, we found a nice residence with a largish (for the uk) garden which is very secluded due to the way the original developer oriented the adjacent houses. We have a field at the back and good hedge cover (lot of work keeping it clipped).  So I can walk out naked and enjoy a goodly area of garden unobserved (except by the ever intolerant spouse).  I have come to relish this privacy and naked yoga, naked gardening and sunbathing are all possible without need of much keeping a lookout fro prying eyes. 


I agree entirely with Patrick1951's remark although I'm not fond of gin!


John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on October 17, 2017, 08:24:36 PM
Quote from: Bob
I believe that everyone should have a place where they mind their own F'ing business and stop trying to control the lives and clothes of other people.
Some ordinances state that the being visible by the public means that the public can see what you are doing on your own property. This means we have to build walls and screens just to mind our own business.

The public is beginning to invade personal spaces.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on October 18, 2017, 02:10:33 AM
Well put, Eyesup.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Patrick1951 on October 18, 2017, 07:44:15 AM

A bit over 2 years ago we were looking at relocating. I needed to find some privacy to be naked outdoors.  We saw many properties and I would resist any one where the garden was too overlooked.  In fact a most beautiful and ideal property we turned down because it was badly overlooked and despite my wife's attempts to smooth over this, I would not consider it.  Being in the same village as we eventually ended up we got to know the eventual occupants and another couple in an adjacent house.  They now complain how overlooked they are.
After a goodly number of properties viewed, we found a nice residence with a largish (for the uk) garden which is very secluded due to the way the original developer oriented the adjacent houses. We have a field at the back and good hedge cover (lot of work keeping it clipped).  So I can walk out naked and enjoy a goodly area of garden unobserved (except by the ever intolerant spouse).  I have come to relish this privacy and naked yoga, naked gardening and sunbathing are all possible without need of much keeping a lookout fro prying eyes. 


I agree entirely with Patrick1951's remark although I'm not fond of gin!


John
The reference to 'gin' was a quote from an earlier post. I don't drink any alcohol, I'm on too many pills due to my condition.
I do stay nude as much as possible and strangely enough the only complaints come from nosey folk who have made extra effort to see me (us)!
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on October 18, 2017, 11:14:23 PM
Some ordinances state that the being visible by the public means that the public can see what you are doing on your own property. This means we have to build walls and screens just to mind our own business.
Duane

Laws vary a lot from place to place.   It is obvious that those who write laws should be the ones minding their own business.

Bob


Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on October 19, 2017, 06:52:13 AM
Quote from: Bob
. . . those who write laws should be the ones minding their own business.
I think that is genetically impossible. The urge to write laws intended to curb behavior and sub-clauses of the same, comes from a desire to control the uncontrollable. Not likely to happen.

In their mind they are minding their business.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on April 19, 2018, 07:29:49 PM
Getting back to the original topic, being seen while getting mail.

Our weather has warmed up finally.  Yesterday I went out naked to get my mail.   I find that I have a lot more fear of being seen since last year when the neighbor came and bitched at me because his teen kid saw me getting mail naked.  I don't enjoy confrontation but I don't want to be controlled either.  I overcame my fear and walked the 300 feet of driveway that is visible from the road and then across the road to the mail box. 

I found myself stepping hastily across the road to get there before any cars came around the corner.  There was a breeze in the trees which makes a background sound and prevents hearing cars before they are within sight.   Opening my box I found a book I had ordered on-line and some advertising mail.  I deliberately paused at the mailbox to inspect each piece.  Then I turned and walked more slowly back across the road and up my driveway. 

Today maybe I'll go mow my lawn naked.

Bob
 
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on April 19, 2018, 11:08:23 PM
Free range naturism like a craft requires a degree of emotional training and reconditioning. Use it or lose it. It helps to hear of thoughtful bravado to get over the insensible fears and sort out the reality, as you symbolically did with your mail.

On another hand, the fresh accomplishment resulting in a degree of liberation feels good after a cold winter. Kinda like stretching after sitting too long.
Thanks Bob.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on April 27, 2018, 09:22:38 PM
Yeah, kinda like when I was planting the peppers in my back yard. There is one home that has a clear view of the yard and another with a partially blocked view.

I was cautious about doing that but it felt good.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on April 28, 2018, 09:01:37 AM
I stopped for a thing tonight and when I got back in the car, I pulled the pants, rolled back the full moon roof and soon discarded the shirt. It felt good.

The moon in the clouds was stunning.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on May 02, 2018, 09:24:09 PM
During the day I will step out in the back yard to change the dog's water bowls or to put something out on the patio. I will take trash out on the side usually under cover of dark. I don't have the plentiful cover of a hedge on my property.

It's always nice to be naked outside if even for a minute.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on May 26, 2018, 09:12:14 PM

When we got back from holiday the weather was great in the UK and the next day I had lots of naked time in the garden as whilst we were away the trees have sprung into leaf and our garden is now screened from the neighbours on one side and only a small area visible from the other side.  My wife was surprisingly tolerant - she was in the living room with a patio door onto the garden so she could see me going up and down mowing the lawn.  After I finished and went in for a drink she said "I saw you mowing the lawn naked".  "Great" I said.  "Thanks for not objecting - it was lovely to be naked outdoors for once." 
Was than an Incremental?  I hope so.
John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on May 27, 2018, 12:17:18 AM
Hmmm!
It has the distinct tone and frequency of one, John! :D

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on May 27, 2018, 11:03:14 AM
weve got a quarter acre orchard with a gate onto the lane, laneside hedge is tall enough for walkers not to see over.   fine sunny day midweek i mowed the grass...  midmorning... neighbours were all either at school or work.   as were near the end of the lane theres little passing traffic, so i decided to mow naked, took about half an hour..... one passing fuel oil lorry and 2 other trucks came by .... all of them whilst i was in the vicinity of the gate... no crashes so i guess they wernt looking over the hedge. ;)
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on May 27, 2018, 03:42:54 PM
one passing fuel oil lorry and 2 other trucks came by .... all of them whilst i was in the vicinity of the gate... no crashes so i guess they wernt looking over the hedge. ;)

Or, likely one or two of the drivers saw you and didn't care.  Being seen naked gives the lorry drivers an opportunity to accept that naked is normal. 

Bob
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on May 31, 2018, 05:43:35 PM

The following days from last described were pretty good too and I got some naked yoga, more gardening and some general hanging about in the garden sunshine to top up the VitD done.  When my wife comes out into the garden she always asks if I will cover up. On several occasions she has now said that as long as she is not there I can do what I like but to cover up the goolies when she is there.  This is definitely incremental as she now rather expects me to be naked in the sun or when she is away from the house (a fair expectation, I should say!).  This is definitely an increment as it accepts that my naturist state will pertain when she is not there.  That is to say she has become less frightened of my naturism per se.  It is tiring though, how she hangs on to the prurient pretence that the middle section of my body is somehow offending her and needs to be covered up.

John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on May 31, 2018, 11:12:49 PM
Would it be different, if she saw Adonis?

Arrrgh, take 'er in de garden, says I. That'll show 'er what ye made fer and alla de appropriate places ye be.

My friend has an affection for things pirate. Her truck bears a bumper sticker, "What would Black Beard Do?"
That's Black Beard's advice...I suppose....

She just didn't come across as someone that would be offended by a midsection, when I met her. Could it be somehow more complex, or an attempt to control the situation, to bargain?
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on June 05, 2018, 10:48:14 PM

Quote
[font=]She just didn't come across as someone that would be offended by a midsection[/font]
She isn't, or wasn't, actually.  She isn't bothered about me being naked in the bedroom, around the house, say early in the day or in the evening.  However, over time and correlating with since I have been less inhibited myself, she has developed a pathological fear of someone coming round or passing the house and seeing me naked!  It's an irrational fear but very real to her.  When I am naked a bit too much for her she resorts to asking me skittishly to cover up.  At minimum, a wrap sarong does it even when I double it over so it's less than shorts length.  Although if I do that she makes a remark about building the pyramids or being in ancient Egypt due to the resemblance to Egyptian tomb paintings which I have to admit is very appropriate!  But this attire or underpants, is equally bad for surprising spontaneous visitors, but doesn't seem to bother her so much. This remarkably irrational and atrophied attitude has developed in recent years - she was never so censorious back in the day.  I think it's the consequences of cosy suburban and village life and her concern not to be seen as out of the ordinary or eccentric.  I don't care but she does.


What I am incrementalising on now is to try and retrench this fossilisation of attitude and gain her confidence that I remain a secret naturist and that she won't be embarrassed by my nudity in the presence of others.  So far this year it's been working a bit.


John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 06, 2018, 12:09:18 AM
I wonder if the anxiety would change if it did actually happen sometime. She would be experiencing less than her perceived fears of consequences. Or would she exaggerate the situation as if her world had just caved in?

Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on June 06, 2018, 09:36:53 AM
i get the same to a slightly lesser degree.... mrs is paranoid about someone coming round and catching either of us naked in the garden, even our family.  im far more laid back, no doubt due to the fact ive been a naturist far longer and have pushed the boundaries,   both on free range hikes and working in clients gardens.   
i reckon once youve had one encounter you cease to worry.  theres still the what if i meet a plonker... but that shouldnt apply in our own back  garden.
mrs is fine on spanish beaches... provided theres other naked bodies about... not quite so relaxed if were on  a beach with no evidence of anyone else using it unclothed.... " are we allowed?"
things are getting easier as time passes and confidence grows....  but i reckon id still get some ear ache if the full extent of my naked hiking, driving and working in clients gardens became known... i dont like non disclosure .... years ago it was best policy but now im letting the knowledge drip out in small increments.
a good example is mowing our orchard... its overlooked from the lane.... during the week day you can reckon on 2 or 3 vehicles an hour and maybe a dog walker once in a blue moon... ive now got "wearing" a tan through wrap accepted as normal.... next stage is acceptance that  away from the gate "wearing" is sitting on.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on June 06, 2018, 05:18:22 PM
If she was once more relaxed yet now the opposite, you may be right that she is concerned that deviating from the norm will be a problem. You have to very confident in who and what you are in order to be different.

You are still relatively new to the community, yes? Maybe she just doesn’t want to risk not being accepted. Maintaining old traditions isn’t so much an agreement with them as it is simply easier than challenging them.

Jbee makes a good point. If it did happen that someone saw you and nothing happened, she might relax.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on June 10, 2018, 02:02:26 PM

Well, I am much gratified to find that Ric, who is a much bolder and vastly more experienced naturist than I, experiences some of the same paranoia about being 'discovered by a stranger' from his wife as I do from my Mrs N.  It is also a new finding that your full exploits, as documented on these hallowed pages, has been the subject of partial "non disclosure'' (good way of putting it!) to your wife, Ric.  Obviously I have such unmentioned areas of my naturism and always feel a bit guilty about that.  It's always nice to know you're not the only one.  So thank you for that bit of disclosure, Ric, I feel better that I am somewhat less out on a limb for spousal disapproval than I thought.
 
As I have referred to several times in the past, my wife and I in younger years (mid 20s) had 2 or 3 naturist experiences on beaches at which time she appeared to be happy to be naked. But on occasions in recent years that these experiences have been recalled she claims not to have been happy about it.  By contrast Ric's wife does join in and is somewhat of a naturist today. But Mrs N did get naked and sunbathe on Greek and Moroccan beaches for hours at a time - was this an extreme manifestation of her parallel tendency to conform overriding her dislike of nudity? 


JBee, I would love your scenario to come to pass of being discovered by a caller to our house.  My wife's fears far outweigh the likely actual consequences of a naked encounter with a visitor.  I think that some of our friends (by no means all!!) would actually join in...or at least treat the event as unremarkable and be happy for me to stay nude.  A question arises as to what my reaction would be?  I am mature enough with my own command of naturism that I know I would not panic or grab my genitals and rush off bent double in embarrassment.  There would be no rushing off to hide.  However, would I stay naked - given that I am in my own home and therefore entirely within my rights to be dressed as I like?  My mind says that I would cover up.  To whoever might encounter me I would say "Do you want me to cover up a bit?" and if the response was in the affirmative I would saunter off and don a minimum of clothes e.g. a pair of shorts or a wrap. Maybe a T-shirt. I do this with my wife.  When she joins me and I have been naked I will throw something on in deference to her wishes which, regrettably, even though she has been more permissive lately, do seemingly run deep.


Whilst we are discussing people's reactions to one being naked, I was again saddened by my art class colleagues.  Someone asked me earlier this week how I was getting on in my life classes (next class in a couple of weeks!) and there ensued a short interchange of slightly giggling embarrassed humour.  The other guy in the class asked if I would like to be a life model for this class.  I somewhat chickened out and cheerily replied that I would be delighted to do that but it wouldn't be ideal because if I was modelling I'd miss the class myself!  Thank goodness there are some art students, i.e. my life class colleagues, who have a proper, mature attitude to the naked body.


Drawing the human form is one of the hardest things I have done for a very long time - getting your hand to reproduce what your eye sees and stopping the brain misinterpreting proportion and shape is phenomenally hard.  That's why I do it - it keeps the brain fresh.  I asked my wife if she would model for me.  She said yes.  She was settling down to watch a film in the living room so I suggested that she might model whilst she is watching the film.  "Oh no! She exclaimed.  "I'm sorry but I just couldn't sit and watch a film whilst naked - I just couldn't"  How irrational is that?  She then said "I don't mind coming up to your study and doing it but I just couldn't be naked in the living room in from to the telly."   So I have her agreement to model at least.  (She had also said she would on a previous occasion).  When she does, I will be clothed.  I think psychologically that would make her more comfortable.  I will give you the news if it happens!
John


John 

Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 11, 2018, 02:54:21 AM
"Not in front of the telly," that is amusingly irrational. Well, the n modeling thing sounds to be something good for her. Maybe an increment. You might show her some personal appreciation without making her feel self consciousness. I suppose she takes a compliment, but she is agreeing in the context of art, I suppose.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 11, 2018, 06:33:58 AM
things are getting easier as time passes and confidence grows....  but i reckon id still get some ear ache if the full extent of my naked hiking, driving and working in clients gardens became known... i dont like non disclosure .... years ago it was best policy but now im letting the knowledge drip out in small increments.
a good example is mowing our orchard... its overlooked from the lane.... during the week day you can reckon on 2 or 3 vehicles an hour and maybe a dog walker once in a blue moon... ive now got "wearing" a tan through wrap accepted as normal.... next stage is acceptance that  away from the gate "wearing" is sitting on.

I agree with you.  I've been cultivating occasional being seen by neighbors as a way of getting a reputation as "that naked guy."  I mow my drain field area naked with a push mower.  Its probably 50 yards from the road and can be seen from the road.  Our daytime traffic is 3 or 4 cars per hour most days. 

Good for you gaining confidence.  Our childhood training of fear is difficult to overcome. 

Quote from: nuduke
As I have referred to several times in the past, my wife and I in younger years (mid 20s) had 2 or 3 naturist experiences on beaches at which time she appeared to be happy to be naked. But on occasions in recent years that these experiences have been recalled she claims not to have been happy about it.

My first "date" with my wife was a hike to a CO hot spring.  Twenty years ago she was happy being seen naked.  Perhaps because of vanity as she has gotten older she now refuses even to talk about getting naked.   She doesn't complain about me being naked though.  I get more of her passive resistance going barefoot to restaurants and stores.  She feels "embarrassed" being with me. 

Bob
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: JOhnGw on June 11, 2018, 09:58:52 AM
one passing fuel oil lorry and 2 other trucks came by .... all of them whilst i was in the vicinity of the gate... no crashes so i guess they wernt looking over the hedge. ;)

Or, likely one or two of the drivers saw you and didn't care.  Being seen naked gives the lorry drivers an opportunity to accept that naked is normal. 

Bob
From observation of the many vehicles passing when I am naked and theoretically visible, drivers are concentrating on the road and will not see you unless you are very conspicuous.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on June 11, 2018, 10:06:18 AM
my wife has been into alternative therapies for a long while , over the last 3 or 4 years shes learnt a lot more about the effects on the body of the variations in frequency and intensity of sunlight over the day, not to mention the vit d issues.   she now views outdoor nudity as a health issue that will enhance our well being in our dotage.   

still not relaxed about meeting family and friends whilst nude,  but a lot of that is down to years of perceived weight issues after having 3 kids, still prefers to wear something over the stomach whilst on the beach. no real issues about how i dress on the beach

Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on June 11, 2018, 10:08:53 AM
try walking or cycling down a road youve been driving down for years and think you know well..... youll see things that youve never noticed before.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: JOhnGw on June 11, 2018, 10:28:59 AM
try walking or cycling down a road youve been driving down for years and think you know well..... youll see things that youve never noticed before.
That's exactly why I don't hire a car on my Fuerteventura holiday, but use the regular service buses to get around and when I am driving my wife never mentions anything interesting she sees until after we are past it just in case it distracts me from driving.
We were taking to the wife of a couple who do hire a car a little while back and she couldn't understand our attitude at all because she didn't drive.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 11, 2018, 04:08:23 PM
From observation of the many vehicles passing when I am naked and theoretically visible, drivers are concentrating on the road and will not see you unless you are very conspicuous.

True that.  Often is its the passenger who sees the deer, turkey, and other wild life beside the road.   
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 11, 2018, 06:42:12 PM
my wife has been into alternative therapies for a long while , over the last 3 or 4 years shes learnt a lot more about the effects on the body of the variations in frequency and intensity of sunlight over the day, not to mention the vit d issues.   she now views outdoor nudity as a health issue that will enhance our well being in our dotage.   

still not relaxed about meeting family and friends whilst nude,  but a lot of that is down to years of perceived weight issues after having 3 kids, still prefers to wear something over the stomach whilst on the beach. no real issues about how i dress on the beach
Heck of a selling point. (1)Nude is healthy, so, (2) nude is natural and good for you, so (3) having issues for about it is wrong. (4) Guess I'll be nude, healthy and happy.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 11, 2018, 06:46:36 PM
things are getting easier as time passes and confidence grows....  but i reckon id still get some ear ache if the full extent of my naked hiking, driving and working in clients gardens became known... i dont like non disclosure .... years ago it was best policy but now im letting the knowledge drip out in small increments.
a good example is mowing our orchard... its overlooked from the lane.... during the week day you can reckon on 2 or 3 vehicles an hour and maybe a dog walker once in a blue moon... ive now got "wearing" a tan through wrap accepted as normal.... next stage is acceptance that  away from the gate "wearing" is sitting on.

I agree with you.  I've been cultivating occasional being seen by neighbors as a way of getting a reputation as "that naked guy."  I mow my drain field area naked with a push mower.  Its probably 50 yards from the road and can be seen from the road.  Our daytime traffic is 3 or 4 cars per hour most days. 

Good for you gaining confidence.  Our childhood training of fear is difficult to overcome. 

Quote from: nuduke
As I have referred to several times in the past, my wife and I in younger years (mid 20s) had 2 or 3 naturist experiences on beaches at which time she appeared to be happy to be naked. But on occasions in recent years that these experiences have been recalled she claims not to have been happy about it.

My first "date" with my wife was a hike to a CO hot spring.  Twenty years ago she was happy being seen naked.  Perhaps because of vanity as she has gotten older she now refuses even to talk about getting naked.   She doesn't complain about me being naked though.  I get more of her passive resistance going barefoot to restaurants and stores.  She feels "embarrassed" being with me. 

Bob
I suspect that her resistance would drop it you two had a nudist couple as friends, a peer group to conform to. Once she gives it a break, she gets hooked again, as people will do. We're all naturists, we all don't know it yet. Some of us forget.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 11, 2018, 08:53:06 PM
My first "date" with my wife was a hike to a CO hot spring.  Twenty years ago she was happy being seen naked.  Perhaps because of vanity as she has gotten older she now refuses even to talk about getting naked.   She doesn't complain about me being naked though.  I get more of her passive resistance going barefoot to restaurants and stores.  She feels "embarrassed" being with me. 
Bob

I suspect that her resistance would drop it you two had a nudist couple as friends, a peer group to conform to. Once she gives it a break, she gets hooked again, as people will do. We're all naturists, we all don't know it yet. Some of us forget.
Jbee

I really don't know, JBee.  She's been going to Rolfing every month and the Rolfing guy told her to go barefoot at least at home.  She has a hard time even at home, and even while I'm barefoot all the time.   As for a peer group, we belong to a Wicca group and Wicca groups often meet naked.  We used to do that too.  But, my wife now refuses to consider it at all.  I'm taking the Wicca group into naked meetings while wife is out of town.  She misses a lot with foolish prudery.

things are getting easier as time passes and confidence grows....  but i reckon id still get some ear ache if the full extent of my naked hiking, driving and working in clients gardens became known... i dont like non disclosure .... years ago it was best policy but now im letting the knowledge drip out in small increments.

I'm with you RIC.  My wife doesn't know how often I drive naked or just go naked.  Now she doesn't know that our Wicca group meets naked when she's not there.  I really don't like non-disclosure either, but silence is often the best choice.   

I'm thinking it has a lot to do with vanity and a woman who doesn't want to appear as "an old woman."    That's hard when you've lived as long as we have.

Bob
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on June 11, 2018, 11:38:40 PM

I have to say how uplifted I am to find that even you, Bob, who is so forthright about your naturism and seemingly so comfortable with it has some similar issues with your wife as myself (although I think, in lesser degree).  Up to this set of posts I had gotten the impression that your wife was fully tolerant and accepting of your lifestyle and was privy to all your FRN activity.  I felt rather isolated with my wife having such strong anti naturist views but it seems that Ric and yourself do have some degree of disapproval to contend with.  I feel my conjugal relationship re naturism is a bit more normal now!   
Might I ask, Bob, if you do have to practice some 'non disclosure' as you mention, does your wife know about your didactic 'Greenbare' website where you celebrate with huge enthusiasm and aplomb the natural naked body and your point of view that everything about it is natural and to be celebrated. Is she aware of FRN?
John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 12, 2018, 02:57:27 PM
Might I ask, Bob, if you do have to practice some 'non disclosure' as you mention, does your wife know about your didactic 'Greenbare' website where you celebrate with huge enthusiasm and aplomb the natural naked body and your point of view that everything about it is natural and to be celebrated. Is she aware of FRN?
John

My wife does not follow Facebook, Twitter, Me-We, or any nudist web sites as far as I know.   She knows I'm a free range nudist and I prefer to go outside naked on our land all summer.  She knows that our neighbors know that I'm sometimes seen naked.  I use naked selfies for my computer "desktop" background.  But, she won't participate in naked walks and doesn't want to be associated with me while I'm naked, and she feels embarrassed when I'm barefoot at businesses.  She doesn't ask, and I don't confront her with it. 

Twenty five years ago she would pose for nude photos and enjoyed accompanying me to hike in the woods or go to CO hot springs.  She is more into conforming.  I think she also does not want to be seen naked as "an old woman."  Its a female vanity thing.   

Bob
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 12, 2018, 03:56:17 PM
Sounds like my wife, who is 65.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 12, 2018, 07:21:15 PM
Sounds like a lot of anxiety, worries about something in the future, projecting oneself into a possibility and building a story about how one would feel there, when the fear, the anxiety, the feelings would never exist if the acts were actually carried out in real life. In other words, people tend to like their nudity, feel liberated and enjoy it, once they try, or do it. "Oh I couldn't do that," is silly crap in the way of reality. I'm old and ashamed isn't very healthy attitude. Old and proud, as I am. Old is beautiful and so is naked old and a spirit of youth will keep us alive and more alive. I'm sad when I see people age and then close down shop.

I have my issues with vanity, too. I've recently gained more weight that I like, think healthy, or realized. I don't accept this body as is. I'm doing something about it, getting back into the good things that I am laxing on. So, I actually felt some uncomfortablity getting naked at social function the other day. It is only me at this moment, at any moment and things change. I'm okay with the age stuff, the sagging of my boobs, the loss of that really cute butt, but unhealthy, that gets to my vanity. The more dignified look, the age is okay, but the slowing down, I can fix a lot of that, at least as much as I care to.

 I can feel good about this body, and won't allow others to rob me of that and expect me to shut down parts of my life. It goes beyond conformity at some point, more like survival of my life spirit, my belief in myself, being put out to pasture, when that is my decision, not others expectations. My life and my blessings to appreciate, between me and the divine, not about any judgemental putz down the street. Old ain't ugly, its older and different and life. Old as human dignity, it's not a place for shame.

It is like "oh, you're too old for that long hair," get it styled like the other old women, or dye that beautiful salt and pepper, that silky white,or  that fluffy grey into some kind of blonde, or something silly other. Fashion always taking advantage of people's insecurities, always making all of this false need for clothing. Making people feel uncomfortable in their own skin. F bomb! I feel a Robert De Niro coming on!
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on June 13, 2018, 06:43:34 AM
Quote from: JOhnGw
. . . drivers are concentrating on the road and will not see you unless you are very conspicuous.
I have always made it a habit to look at my surroundings as I drive, in my neighborhood or on the highway. I have learned that you see more than you are aware of just by scanning the landscape.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on June 13, 2018, 06:46:43 AM
Quote
"I'm sorry but I just couldn't sit and watch a film whilst naked - I just couldn't"  How irrational is that?
That’s like worrying about being seen by the dog while naked. Like the dog knows the difference.
It may think you look different for some reason, and after investigating conclude it’s the same ol’ you.
Indoctrination holds a stern sway in life.
 
Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on June 13, 2018, 09:42:33 AM
guys youve got to remember that women dont think like men.

on a beach in fuerteventura with a liberal scattering of naked bodies the wife prefers to wear a short beach wrap over here stomach.... "dont worry dear no bloke is looking at youre belly, most of thems admiring your chest"..... got the response  "its the women who will be noticing"    i dont see that it matters what some stranger is thinking for a nano second before they wander off never to be met again.

im convinced their brains are wired different.... but the constant barrage from the fitness and fashion industries has to be part of it.

but its good to go to a busy naturist beach where theres all ages and shapes being seen not to worried about being seen .   its the closest we get to social naturism , the part we go to is mostly german tourists so we dont get into a lot of in depth conversation.  though one afternoon we did stroll the best part of a mile down the beach chatting to an elderly german lady with one short tan through beach wrap between the 3 of us.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on June 14, 2018, 01:47:08 AM
Quote from: ric
im convinced their brains are wired different.... but the constant barrage from the fitness and fashion industries has to be part of it.
I don’t disagree for a minute. The STILL unanswered question is WHY? There doesn’t seem to be a good reason for it. But many times it sure would be helpful.

But it is easier to list and discuss the things I do understand instead of the one’s I don’t. ;D
It’s also quicker.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 14, 2018, 08:38:48 PM
guys youve got to remember that women dont think like men.

on a beach in fuerteventura with a liberal scattering of naked bodies the wife prefers to wear a short beach wrap over here stomach.... "dont worry dear no bloke is looking at youre belly, most of thems admiring your chest"..... got the response  "its the women who will be noticing"    i dont see that it matters what some stranger is thinking for a nano second before they wander off never to be met again.

im convinced their brains are wired different.... but the constant barrage from the fitness and fashion industries has to be part of it.

but its good to go to a busy naturist beach where theres all ages and shapes being seen not to worried about being seen .   its the closest we get to social naturism , the part we go to is mostly german tourists so we dont get into a lot of in depth conversation.  though one afternoon we did stroll the best part of a mile down the beach chatting to an elderly german lady with one short tan through beach wrap between the 3 of us.
There are some differences that are inherent psychology that has been tested and documented. Mostly the difference is cultural social, the environment. Past that, my experience shows me that it depends on the woman and the issue and the situation. Not all women think alike, I've discovered. Masculine and feminine traits are in us all. Age, people changing, crap that people pick up, the stories that we tell ourselves, beliefs.

Then, there is that difference. Viva la difference!
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on June 18, 2018, 11:49:53 PM
Quote from: ric
guys youve got to remember that women dont think like men.
Vive la différence!
Not in all areas! My wife and I agree on a great many things. But in the one we are discussing here I agree. She is as hesitant as most of the women mentioned here.

Stephen King used this experience in one of his novels. The character was trying to get his wife to discuss something she absolutely refused to talk about. He described it as an emotional equivalent of hitting an air-pocket while traveling by air. You’re flying along smoothly with no problems, the next, the plane has dropped a couple thousand feet, leaving your stomach on the ceiling of the plane with no explanation as to what just happened.

No matter how calm and reasoning you are there is just no getting around the boulder (or air pocket) in the way.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 19, 2018, 01:02:13 AM
I think only married people understand this. 
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: rw on June 22, 2018, 01:24:58 AM
On the subject of being seen, i went for a walk through the local common tonight, and because it looked empty, decided to strip off while doing so.  Figured I had plenty of time to cover up if someone did appear. I'd literally walked about two steps when a guy on a bike came shooting past me from behind (no idea how I didn't hear the bike earlier because it's a shingle path).  I saw him later on the loop back around the other side of the common - by that time I'd decided to re-dress.  I said good evening, he replied but wouldn't look at me. Guess he thought I was nuts... better not to make eye contact in that case.   ::)
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 22, 2018, 02:05:57 AM
On the subject of being seen, i went for a walk through the local common tonight, and because it looked empty, decided to strip off while doing so.  Figured I had plenty of time to cover up if someone did appear. I'd literally walked about two steps when a guy on a bike came shooting past me from behind (no idea how I didn't hear the bike earlier because it's a shingle path).  I saw him later on the loop back around the other side of the common - by that time I'd decided to re-dress.  I said good evening, he replied but wouldn't look at me. Guess he thought I was nuts... better not to make eye contact in that case.   ::)

A good encounter.   He saw a naked person and suffered no harm.   He learned that seeing a member of his own species is not harmful.   Good going.

Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 22, 2018, 06:16:29 AM
He recognized you with your clothes on? Are you sure? ??? ;D
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: rw on June 22, 2018, 11:07:24 AM
He recognized you with your clothes on? Are you sure? ??? ;D

LOL
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: rw on June 23, 2018, 06:16:04 PM
Interestingly I contacted the local police about the idea of naturist walking or jogging in the area, and the constable said it's fine from a legal perspective, just that he'd be more worried about personal safety than anything else (as long as I'm not intentionally trying to offend anyone, perfectly legal). Also said that social media has a way of making things spiral out of proportion, so just "consider the location and risk assess accordingly".

Gotta love the UK police...
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 23, 2018, 07:01:50 PM
My mouth slathers with the thought that there might be a place to roam nude freely without danger. I would be like a toddler making its way out the front door for the first time, in disbelief, "Can this really be happening? Can I really do this?"
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: rw on June 25, 2018, 02:12:25 PM
BTW. The downside of notifying the police - they got in contact to let me know had one call from the public about a "naked male walking in the area" after I went for a wander over the weekend.

I saw about 4-5 people during an hour or so walking - a family (mum with two kids) whom I avoided completely by taking a different route to the one I had intended (just went down a different path), rather than walk past them.  A couple of women walking their dogs, one looked unimpressed, the other just chuckled.  And there were a couple in the tree line (who I couldn't really see since I was in the sun), I heard making comments, so I assume might've been them who called.

So even though I know it's legal, and the police are aware, and I damn well know I'm doing nothing wrong, that's still putting me off going back.

Am I being stupid/too damn sensitive?
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 25, 2018, 03:40:13 PM
So even though I know it's legal, and the police are aware, and I damn well know I'm doing nothing wrong, that's still putting me off going back.
Am I being stupid/too damn sensitive?

I think that's called "social pressure."   The clothed culture scowls its disapproval and we feel their criticism. 

I understand your hesitancy.  I have had to muster my courage more since the neighbor complained about me getting my mail naked.  I still do it, but it takes more resolve.   Last Saturday one neighbor had a yard sale.  I went (clothed) to see what they were selling.  They are one of the neighbors who have to drive past my home every day on their way to and from theirs.  I'm sure they must have seen me naked more than once over the years, but they mentioned it not at all when I showed up at their yard sale.  We just chatted some about other topics and then I went home.  Not all the neighbors are offended.

It will take several sightings of naked people wandering about before the public has gotten used to it.  It will take lots of nudists mustering up their courage to brave the disapproval and be among the first to take advantage of recently clarified legal permission.   I hope you don't give up. 

Bob


Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: rw on June 25, 2018, 04:25:02 PM
It will take several sightings of naked people wandering about before the public has gotten used to it.  It will take lots of nudists mustering up their courage to brave the disapproval and be among the first to take advantage of recently clarified legal permission.   I hope you don't give up. 

Thanks for the support Bob. Much appreciated. I kind of feel a moral duty to go out and "exercise my privilege" (for fear of "if you don't use it, you lose it").  To some extent though, I wish the police wouldn't bother notifying me that they've had any calls and then I can just carry on oblivious to any criticism...  ;)
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 25, 2018, 07:26:12 PM

Thanks for the support Bob. Much appreciated. I kind of feel a moral duty to go out and "exercise my privilege" (for fear of "if you don't use it, you lose it").  To some extent though, I wish the police wouldn't bother notifying me that they've had any calls and then I can just carry on oblivious to any criticism...  ;)

Right you are.  Exercising privileged is the only way to maintain the privilege. 

The new police guidelines say they are supposed to tell the person who calls that it is not a police matter.  Their call to you was an attempt to control you even though their guidelines say its not their business.   Fear and intimidation is a big part of how police work.  All the more reason to exercise the privilege so its not lost.   
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 25, 2018, 07:31:17 PM
I'd figure that it could have been the mom and kids. Parents are protective, fearful, always on alert and see what is not there. You redirected, so they may have seen it as a perverted act, instead of just walking down the street and doffing your hat politely (had a hat?). If you had walked past, what would you have done if she overreacted?

It is these potentials that inhibit my personal nude exploits, be they at a party, or on a hike. These myths and stories have been ingrained in me from an early age. It is an entirely different experience to walk on a reservation knowing that i'll have complete acceptance, than walking a street with unknowns, especially when my knee jerk reaction is to perceive that I may be judged harshly.

An example was a party with a group of friends. Nearly all took a turn naked in the pool to cool off, but most redressed and didn't remain undressed in the house, where food and toilets were and a group doing music. I felt uncomfortable being naked in the house in the tight quarters and had a towel as a security blanket, at least on my shoulders. That was me that day, it depends on me usually. DF had no inhibition, she embraced full nudity, telling me how liberated she felt to be able to just be herself.

I couldn't know what I would feel walking down the street. What if I were a woman? Some just don't know that it is permissible to be nude, yet. They see it as civic duty to report the illegal offense. I wonder how your police responded to the call, perhaps with sympathy?

New York has topfreedom, but who's using it?

You are a trail blazer for social change. You are the messenger. There could be backlash when people in your community begin to talk. This is new territory. Change in oneself is often better incremental, or sometimes just better to jump in the pool. So what you're doing is an act of minding your own business, but you can't escape being instrumental for social change an emissary of sorts.

Like just being naked at first, one gains confidence, grace, and natural social human characteristics pop out as practice is had.

Although the police make you nervous, it is probably good to keep close to them. They can help you, as well as scare you and give you the information that you can use as a barometer. 

I find your situation fascinating as heck. I'd love to participate in such social experimentation. I want to hear how this goes. How you deal with it within and without. All I have is the tooleys when I occasionally come across another hiker to understand. I watch reactions, and take note of positives and uncomfortable, and haven't had a negative. Your situation may be different, or maybe not. I want to know, so please, report and discuss this here with us.

If it didn't rain so much, DF and I would be over there, curiously experiencing just what it could be like, as if visiting another planet. ;D
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 25, 2018, 11:03:23 PM
The man in this story lived directly across the street from me:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/25/AR2009102502468.html.

The fact of the matter is, the facts will never be clear. Except that the man was definitely seen naked. Don't let that happen to you.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 26, 2018, 12:22:56 AM
The man in this story lived directly across the street from me:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/25/AR2009102502468.html.

The fact of the matter is, the facts will never be clear. Except that the man was definitely seen naked. Don't let that happen to you.


That's how sexist law works. 

When a man looks into a window and sees a naked woman, he's an evil Peeping Tom. He must be arrested and punished.

When a woman looks into a window and sees a naked man, he's an evil Exhibitionist.  He must be arrested and punished.


Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2018, 07:04:14 AM
Police officer's wife and kid. That is why it got the special attention. Abuse of power by a pissed off cop and his private police force power trip. If it had been anyone else....
...And yep, a sexist double standard, published and scaring people...2009?
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on June 26, 2018, 07:14:27 AM
Interesting viewpoint there Bob. Hadn’t seen it that way before.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: John P on June 26, 2018, 07:17:36 AM
BlueTrain, you could have said (but did not) that the guy was found not guilty; the jury deliberated less than 20 minutes. My memory is that this case was generally seen as the police making fools of themselves. And the woman involved was a policeman's wife, which might or might not be a coincidence.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/fairfax/woman-flipped-off-naked-guy-th.html
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2018, 07:39:13 AM
The comments are interesting.

I'm having thoughts about why this article was published here and now, how and by whom. I think that we are all being messed with.
There is a trend of games of sabotage.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on June 26, 2018, 11:09:28 AM
i had a good day yesterday....
offin the morning to a fortnightly mowing job.... last time there were no cars on the drive and it was late morning before the 17 year old daughter opened the house windows,   this time the docs car was on the drive...he came out for a chat . did the hours strimming in a pair of overalls,   whilst doc and daughter moved the rabbit run.... then docs wife arrived home.    did the ride on mowing dressed as usual in a hat.... did wear the beach wrap for a bit near the gate.... dont bother if theres nobody at home to see me pushing the boundaries.   then on with the pedestrian mower and then some pruning. doc came out off and on with mugs of tea.
about 3pm i decided i was warm enough and was just pcking up up when coc came out to warn me about sunburn.

had a small painting job to do on the way home... but decided to detour via the woods for an hours stroll in the shade... no cars in the parking area so just took a camera bag and the wrap... it came off as soon as i was out of sight of the road and stuffed in the camera bag ,   guess its my first free range wander this year.   didnt see a soul but there was a car in the parking area when i returned.

got to the flat to do an hours painting... locked myself in , drew the front roadside curtains and stripped  off again.

was just gone six by the time i had to get dressed again to come home..... then stripped off again.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 26, 2018, 03:02:22 PM
The comments are interesting.

I'm having thoughts about why this article was published here and now, how and by whom. I think that we are all being messed with.
There is a trend of games of sabotage.
Jbee

I hadn't though about that.   However, seeing this discussion reminds me that our state once had a lot of Christian morality coded into law which were called "Blue  laws."     Coincidence?   
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 26, 2018, 05:53:59 PM
If you're referring to me, yes, it's a coincidence. The name "Blue Train" comes from a car, which was a Rover sedan. In the 1930s, there was a sort of competition to drive to the south of France faster than the train, which was the Blue Train, which ceased service in 2003. Rover Cars used the fact in advertising, calling their car the "Blue Train Rover." There was also a Blue Train Bentley. Anyway, I had two Rover sedans and also a Land-Rover. I presently have a Ford.

I posted the link mainly because the incident took place where I live. When I got home from work that day, the street was full of police cars and TV news trucks. I thought for sure there had been a murder. Turned out a foolish young man left his curtains open. His sin was indiscretion. He now has an arrest record. Whether or not he was judged guilty is almost irrelevant since in public affairs, all that is necessary is to be accused of something. In any event, it doesn't seem to have done anything to advance the cause of public nudity.

Comments? Am I being too politically incorrect, deviating from the accepted norms around here? If so, I'll cheerfully bow out and never make another post.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: rw on June 26, 2018, 06:09:16 PM
I find your situation fascinating as heck. I'd love to participate in such social experimentation. I want to hear how this goes. How you deal with it within and without. All I have is the tooleys when I occasionally come across another hiker to understand. I watch reactions, and take note of positives and uncomfortable, and haven't had a negative. Your situation may be different, or maybe not. I want to know, so please, report and discuss this here with us.

If it didn't rain so much, DF and I would be over there, curiously experiencing just what it could be like, as if visiting another planet. ;D

So while I'm still as uncomfortable as <insert swearword of choice> going around that area now (will see if that feeling lasts), I'm still going to go on some walks further afield -- further from home, I doubt I'll feel the impact of social pressure.  With the legal situation being so unclear previously, this hasn't been a comfortable experience in the past (ie. carry a wrap, nervously listen for any footfall around blind corners, etc), so armed with the clarity of the law, it's going to be an interesting experience. I will definitely "report back to the group"!  ;D
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 26, 2018, 06:25:31 PM
Turned out a foolish young man left his curtains open. His sin was indiscretion. He now has an arrest record. Whether or not he was judged guilty is almost irrelevant since in public affairs, all that is necessary is to be accused of something. In any event, it doesn't seem to have done anything to advance the cause of public nudity.


Yes.  The police rule by fear and violence, not by law.   He's been severely abused and punished even though the court found him "not guilty."   

Your laws are more strict than other many places.   We have to be intentionally trying to offend or alarm someone -- even out on a public street.  Your law just makes it illegal to be naked where someone can see.  That is an important distinction in law.   Your laws need changing. 





Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2018, 09:43:21 PM
Yea, the comments suggested, among other similar suggestions, that the police pay court costs,or be fined, or jailed, or fired AND that the laws, or system that it creates be changed. Stomping on privacy RIGHTS also were angrily expressed. It is all very obvious, very plain that this is BS.

There were a number of comments where people opined that he just played the system, or that he would "obviously" commit other crimes, escalating to murder. There is always a significant vocal minority that fears, judges by fears, and has absolutely no evidence to support their claims, or jump to the fully irrational. Intellectual cognitive deficit and the belief that they are normal.

I noticed that he managed to jump from the garage to the living-room window very quickly to be flipped off, an obscene gester, by a passerby, that couldn't walk across his yard as quick as he went around corners, through doors, etc., just so she could see him through a window instead of up the driveway 83 feet. Did she just stand there and make sure that she saw him again?

Sometimes, I go out into my drive to load the SUV nude. I look and listen for the weird neighbors at those times. They have to be looking hard and on the property line to really see me. If I am unsure, I figure the odds are with me, I haven't seen anyone using that part of the property for years, but then, just to be sure, I carry the load in front of my crotch and then, turn my back to walk back to the house. YA never know. If push came to shove, say somebody is hiding in the bushes again, I haven't broken any law by showing my genitals or anus from dozens of feet away through the brush, when I am minding my own business. I don't bend over. The law is clear.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on June 26, 2018, 11:28:51 PM

Your boldness in testing the letter of the law, rw, is very praiseworthy.  However, you seem to have chosen rather a public place to exercise your legal right to be naked and inoffensive.  Many of us on this forum come from 'residency' on a previous forum called The Secret Naturist Society (TSNS) which was a collection of people who liked to be naked, hike naked and be naked in nature.  In those days, the premise was that your naturist 'craft' was to keep secret and secluded so that encounters didn't happen.  Perhaps you should take a leaf out of the Secret Naturists book (and I think JBee may still have a copy of that!) and seek to enjoy your nakedness in nature away from prying eyes and prurient encounters. 


We tend to refer these days to 'Free Range Naturism' as a way of describing those who hike nude in nature.  We have all but lost the soubriquet 'Secret Naturist' although it did describe the territory rather well, I always felt.
John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on June 26, 2018, 11:32:41 PM

Blue Train,
Hang in with us and be welcome, sir!
Pluralism and diversity are one of our watchwords.
Whilst we stray wide from our topics during discussions, we tend to start any topic with some aspect of our common interest - naturism and free ranging i.e. being in natural circumstances whilst naked. 
Stay with us, matey!  All viewpoints are welcome.
John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2018, 11:46:32 PM

Your boldness in testing the letter of the law, rw, is very praiseworthy.  However, you seem to have chosen rather a public place to exercise your legal right to be naked and inoffensive.  Many of us on this forum come from 'residency' on a previous forum called The Secret Naturist Society (TSNS) which was a collection of people who liked to be naked, hike naked and be naked in nature.  In those days, the premise was that your naturist 'craft' was to keep secret and secluded so that encounters didn't happen.  Perhaps you should take a leaf out of the Secret Naturists book (and I think JBee may still have a copy of that!) and seek to enjoy your nakedness in nature away from prying eyes and prurient encounters. 


We tend to refer these days to 'Free Range Naturism' as a way of describing those who hike nude in nature.  We have all but lost the soubriquet 'Secret Naturist' although it did describe the territory rather well, I always felt.
John
Free range naturism, I think implies that we are free to be nude everywhere, not just designated areas, but that isn't an easy ability in reality. So the secret naturism allows us a practical tool to continue our nudity under the radar. Secret naturism is a necessary part of free range naturism. I like to exercise my nature in this world whenever possible and promote expanding the limits for everyone. So, some of us get seen, sometimes.

Sure would like to experiment unencumbered, as if in a more perfect world. What a opportunity you have to normalize the RIGHT to a human body.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 27, 2018, 12:03:41 AM
Free range naturism, I think implies that we are free to be nude everywhere, not just designated areas, but that isn't an easy ability in reality. So the secret naturism allows us a practical tool to continue our nudity under the radar. Secret naturism is a necessary part of free range naturism. I like to exercise my nature in this world whenever possible and promote expanding the limits for everyone. So, some of us get seen, sometimes.

Sure would like to experiment unencumbered, as if in a more perfect world. What a opportunity you have to normalize the RIGHT to a human body.
Jbee

I agree Jbee.  I was a member of Free Range Naturism for quite a while before Secret Naturism forum folded.   I'm more of a Free Range person than a Secret person.  I'll be secret when I have to be, but I prefer the freedom of being free range and being seen by occasional other people. 

We have a strict rule at our house, "Don't get arrested."   Pretty much anything else is acceptable as long as it doesn't hurt someone.  If I lived in the UK with their new legal guidelines I would be out being seen naked even more than here.  I believe we have to push nudity to get public perception and then laws changed here.  If I cared about being seen I would be clothed. 

Bob
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 06:16:52 AM
TWo thoughts.
One, does thsi mean that Steven Gough is now the only person over there who is not legally able to be nude in public?

And Two: Blue Train, did they question you about your neighbor's behavior? There was mention that the neighbors were asked about any previous incidents. I was wondering how they went about with their smear campaign to alarm the neighborhood.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: Peter S on June 27, 2018, 08:36:06 AM
JBee, your question about Steve Gough is highly pertinent. It highlights the perversity of the Anti-Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) system, whereby legal activities can be criminalised almost on the whim of some busybody. When the scheme was introduced it was widely welcomed because it was aimed at unruly types making a nuisance of themselves on the streets of law-abiding, peaceful neighbourhoods. But mixed with the Law of Unintended Consequences it has become a suppressor of freedoms through misuse. SG could legally be naked, but in doing so would break the terms of his ASBO and thereby incur punishment for being naked.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 27, 2018, 01:30:51 PM
Concerning the young man seen nude, you first need to visualize the circumstances. The house is on a plain, flat lot with no bushes or trees, sitting all of about thirty feet from the sidewalk. As for moving around, it takes exactly the same time to walk from one end of the house to the other inside or out. Aside from any details quoted in the articles, I don't know anything else about it and I don't know if those details are even accurate. It all happened while I was at work and as far as I know, the police asked no questions of neighbors. It was a rental property at the time. There was no smear campaign and I don't think there had been any other incidents.

I find no fault with the police. They were just acting upon a complaint. Generally speaking, I don't believe the police anywhere abuse their powers unless you aren't white, don't live on the wrong side of the tracks or you're not from around there. But conditions and circumstances vary widely. Just read the newspapers and understand. Life is not fair.

Although it would be nice to have the law on your side, it would be even better to have your neighbors on your side. You don't get to choose your parents and you usually don't get to choose your neighbors, either. Some do their best to do so, of course. You may have neighbors who do things you'd really wish they wouldn't do, too. You either tolerate it or call the police. The law is usually so broad and vague that if there are enough complaints, the police will do something. They rarely (in your neighborhood, that is) do things on their own. It starts with someone actually calling the police. These days, they (the complainant) may even take pictures, since everyone be me has a smartphone. It is a community and everyone should behave as if they have neighbors. You wouldn't like it any other way.

I hope this post is not too far off the topic.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 06:19:01 PM
We incorporated the Town of Tortolita and we had political battles to keep the surrounding towns and distant Tucson from killing our democratically created town. We often were getting interviewed by the local media. They would come out and get a story, omit things so as to misquote, show themselves to sometimes be completely ignorant of the issue, but get a story, or make a story, anyway. We all realized quickly that great care needed to be taken with these people and speak carefully.

Here, we have media reporting court evidence and neighbors reporting the opposite. As an outsider, one has to wonder who's record is reliable. Are the police abusing power, or are they "Officer Opy" investigating "the crime of the century?"

You wrote, "It is a community and everyone should behave as if they have neighbors. You wouldn't like it any other way." There is a lot to be said in those two sentences about community. There are multitudes definitions, unspoken rules of order, law, etc. defining community standards and individual rights. There are the who's, the how's, change and nobodies business but my own, on and on.

So, is a dress code the same as keeping your front yard attractive?
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 27, 2018, 06:33:21 PM
Not exactly but how people keep the neighborhood affects property values. What your neighbors are like affects your life. If someone plays loud music at midnight, I guess you don't have to listen, though. It's none of your business, after all.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: rw on June 27, 2018, 06:46:12 PM
I find your situation fascinating as heck. ... I want to hear how this goes.

So today I went walking further afield.  16km distance.  About 3 and a bit hours walking.  Somewhere between 14-15km spent unclothed.  I covered up going past a country pub which had a mass of delivery trucks out the front, covered up going past a school, and then for a section of main road (about 1km or so) before getting back onto open fields. The rest of the time, all clothing was stuffed into my backpack.

I made a conscious decision not to cover up for any adults on the track.  Reaction was mostly okay.  The first couple I walked past moved off the track but did call out good morning as I went past.  When I looked back the woman was taking my photo (wonder where that will end up).  A (female) jogger went past shortly after with an unimpressed look on her face, and resolutely stared forward.  After that, I encountered a few men who just said hello and didn't show any other reaction.  Then a female dog walker who apologised when her dog came running up to me, but apart from that didn't seem bothered in the slightest. In fact, she commented on the weather and pointed out the right direction to go on the track.  Much later on I heard children's voices in the distance, and strategically placed my backpack in front of me when a pair of mothers, with toddlers in tow, went past.
About the only negative reaction (apart from the female jogger), was an older man who veered off the track when he saw me and shot off in another direction.  Which I thought was the most odd of all.

Overall a pretty stress free experience.  (Although on the second hill climb I realised exactly how unfit I've become...)  :-[
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 07:42:41 PM
rw! Oh, to know that you had to be a topic of conversation and how those people and their friends responded in thought and conversation. Hopefully, everyone understood that the matter was not at all harmful, nor worth concern.

It sounds like you are just enjoying yourself, your naturism free of hassles, because you avoided a couple of situations that were populated with people that might have that potential, instead of firmly pushing on their sense of boundary. I suppose that is the appeal of naturism, no worries.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 08:23:12 PM
Not exactly but how people keep the neighborhood affects property values. What your neighbors are like affects your life. If someone plays loud music at midnight, I guess you don't have to listen, though. It's none of your business, after all.

That's my point. Where do these boundaries 'lie." It is not cut and dry, black and white. Loud music and disruptive timing can't be compared with mowing the lawn without clothing.

When a property is not kept up, it does affect property values around there. There are usually some legal expectations put into place beforehand. On the other hand, you can't be calling the neighborhood association or the police on someone and expect harmony in that community.

I've had a neighbors next door, first one who declared war on the the others, constantly doing battle, harassing the others, games, stealing from us. We had a party to celebrate when these dysfunctional nut jobs when they lost their home and moved away.

Then, there are these new ones. The sound system outside is complained about when it is heard more than a quarter mile away. I'm constantly hearing a bass drone inside my house with two and a half thick walls. He refused a petitioned complaint and then was angry when the police were called at the last resort. This same guy's wife is concerned that her kids might see one of us minding our own business in the nude on our own property. Then, there are people using these boundary issues as tools to feel power and feel good, to control, just to control and forcefully define the world.

Where is the line drawn? Does a monetary encumbrance justify? Does a perceived norm require a dress code? Will one be required a shinny new prosperous looking car in the drive?  Is a man's home his castle, or an island?

I think that requiring people to dress in a certain way is outrageous, especially when it is brought to the force of law, or interpretations of it. Nudity is just a form of dress. It is not sexual except for someone else interpretation. It is causal dress. It is like wearing a t-shirt. It is not even like wearing an unusual hairstyle, or clothing, punk, hippie, or anything that doesn't conform. It is natural and a simple casual choice and needs to be seen as just that. It is not a property value issue. Over controlling neighbors and harassment is a property value issue.
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 27, 2018, 10:11:45 PM
I could say something but I'm learning to keep my opinions to myself.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: nuduke on June 27, 2018, 11:22:29 PM

Quote
Secret naturism is a necessary part of free range naturism.
Well said, JBee, although perhaps necessary is a bit strong.  Perhaps say - Secret Naturism frequently needed to achieve FRN.

I think Bob's remarks ring clear too:
Quote
I'll be secret when I have to be, but I prefer the freedom of being free range and being seen by occasional other people. 
We have a strict rule at our house, "Don't get arrested."   Pretty much anything else is acceptable as long as it doesn't hurt someone.

In other words, adapt as needed to gain what freedom to roam that is available.  Quite so.
John
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 11:41:26 PM
I could say something but I'm learning to keep my opinions to myself.
Passive aggressive attack. I'm being messed with.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on June 27, 2018, 11:57:05 PM
Okay, here goes with another attack on your sensibilities. I don't care for the use of the word secret. It implies that you're doing something that would embarrass your or bring shame on you. Better words would be discreet or private. Don't take things so personally. You need to work on your tolerance. There are a few people who enjoy outdoor nudity who see things a little differently. Our experiences have differed.

Those are just opinions, not a fact I can back up with any statistics. As such, they have no value.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 28, 2018, 12:41:45 AM
Interesting fun semantic point. I don't recall that anyone has considered that. Lookee, or someone else came up with the title, "The Secret NAturist Society". It connotes mystery, underground, secret societies of old, which is more attractive than
The Discreet NAturist Society" or The Private Naturist Society."   ;D

I guess that it is one of those things that got used so much in the context that it lost some meaning. See fresh persective is good.

However,"Those are just opinions, not a fact I can back up with any statistics. As such, they have no value." means that I am being messed with again.
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: ric on June 28, 2018, 09:37:48 AM
jb i dont know or care why youve got a strop on with bluetrain but some of your recent posts are in my opinion a bit off.   it does look as if youre  hell bent on trying to drive the bloke off the forum , presumably for daring to post an opinion that differs to yours.

Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on June 28, 2018, 05:41:31 PM
If you've gone back and read as I suggested and still see it that way, I don't know how else to explain. No, I'm not hell bent on driving him off of the site. He is fresh juice, he is welcomed and it doesn't feel that that is my place. It is not about his opinion differing from mine. It is about being messed with and the way that these opinions are being passed off. I'm also disagreeing with false logic, when it happens. 

The "messed with", I use his term, part was diving me off of the site. My opinion was being squelched, in an off hand, inconsiderate and systematic  manner. It was either I leave, or I call him out, hoping for change. I hope that he understands what his behaviors do.

I suppose that I must resolve to make the effort to express disagreement with his opinions, which often come across as contrarian and even anti-naturist and cavalier. But that's okay. I can't always be correct, I've been even suspicious about where he is coming from. He seems to be coming from an insulated bubble sometimes, but that's okay, too.

Obviously, my response might be better expressed, or you wouldn't think that I'm attempting to drive him off. I do my best.

Bluetrain, I hope that if you read this that you feel addressed, too. I must apologize for speaking about you, rather than to you. I hope that these two sentences fix that omission.
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: BlueTrain on July 02, 2018, 12:15:09 AM
Oh, I think I'm the one who owes you an apology. I have been guilty of one thing that I cautioned about somewhere here, which is in being indiscreet. I also apologize to anyone else who thinks I rippled the waters too much. I'm really not trying to mess with you.

This is the only forum with a subject matter that includes nude hiking, although there is no section devoted to it. As you all probably know, there used to be a forum just about nude hiking but it went defunct because, I suppose, the owner abandoned it for one reason or another. I can only imagine the effort it takes to get a lively forum up and running and to have a lot of participants, as this one seems to. Before that, there were a couple of Yahoo Groups devoted to the subject. But Yahoo Groups work very poorly.

I had some good, long-term exchanges with a couple of members from one group or another. One of them lived in Salt Lake City and was a very interesting character. The other I discovered worked around the corner from where I also work in Northern Virginia, out near Dulles Airport, and we managed to have lunch together one day. An actual face-to-face conversation is nothing like making posts on a forum. That was years ago.

Well, time passes. I don't get out as much as I used to and consequently, I don't have many new, much less exciting, stories to relate here, although I did tell of my visit back home when the river was flooding. It isn't really because I don't go hiking so much as not driving a long distance to go hiking that makes the difference. I try to get out every day or two, although the temperatures have been high and the humidity even higher lately. My tramp mostly through the woods is about two miles round trip, with about 3/4 of that in thick woods in a suburban neighborhood. That satisfies my urge to put one foot in front of the other, if nothing else. I find myself making excuses for not going other places for hiking, places where I can hike nude. All I can say is, too bad; maybe next week.

I don't know how to explain where I'm coming from. I have visited a club (Pen-Mar Club) but frankly, clubs don't have anything to offer me that I'm interested in. It was still a nice visit but there are no clubs that I know of within a three or four hour drive. When the family owned a beach cottage on the Outer Banks, I usually went down U.S. 460 part of the way and passed right by Whitetail Resort but I never stopped by. My chief interest was always hiking and camping.

I like to use the term "free hiking" for nude hiking and I rather like free range naturism.

I stayed away long enough to cool off, so to say, but there's no other place to go, it seems, at least for the subject matter.
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on September 11, 2018, 02:25:37 AM
Quote
Lookee, or someone else came up with the title, "The Secret NAturist Society". It connotes mystery, underground, secret societies of old, which is more attractive than
The Discreet NAturist Society" or The Private Naturist Society."

By the end of the Olde Syte” I had begun to think of my activities, on TSNS, as The Solitary Naturist Society. I was spending a great deal of time by myself in the desert.

Duane
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: jbeegoode on September 12, 2018, 04:15:19 AM
I have to wonder if you are now spending a lot of time by yourself in the desert. I've been concerned. Haven't heard from you since. I think last June, about the time we PMed about the trip that I'm now posting about over at TheFreeRangeNaturist.org.

Welcome home, comrade,
Jbee
Title: Re: Being seen while getting mail.
Post by: eyesup on September 14, 2018, 08:36:15 PM
Yeah, I think June was the last time I posted something. I have been a bit occupied with some family issues, so not much opportunity. When I do go out, I almost always am alone. I like it that way but occasionally it would be nice to have some company.

So far it’s a good way to clear the mind and body.

Duane