Free Range Naturism

Naturism => Free Range Naturism => Topic started by: Rebus on June 29, 2018, 09:23:30 PM

Title: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on June 29, 2018, 09:23:30 PM
For those available in the Portland area July 25-29, join in nude day hikes each day with a group who will be camping each night at Mountaindale Sun Resort and traveling each day to a different hiking location between Portland and the coast.  Registration is via Meetup site http://meetu.ps/e/F7Pxd/zSLLG/f
Hurry as I believe registration deadline is presently set at June 30th.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Bob Knows on June 30, 2018, 02:20:36 PM
Sounds like fun.   Take advantage of legal nudity in Oregon.  I hope you are successful. 
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on June 30, 2018, 04:54:39 PM
That's the idea.  It's generally not illegal in Oregon.  Last year clothed encounters were actually rare as weekdays are lightly traveled but this year includes a weekend.  There was one encounter with a clothed couple hiking out as we were hiking in.  I encountered them first as I was ahead of the group.  We exchanged pleasantries and chatted for a while.  As it turned out they were inspired to strip and hike the rest of the way back in the nude (except shoes).  Still at the trailhead when we returned some time later, they thanked us, sharing that it was the first time they had ever hiked in the nude and what a wonderful experience it was.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on June 30, 2018, 10:48:42 PM
That is a pleasant encounter to hear about. Please, I'd like to hear all about it.
Jbee
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on July 01, 2018, 12:54:46 AM
Well, some additional detail -- It was a very narrow heavily forested trail and I saw them approaching first so I stepped off the trail to leave them room to pass but it was rather steep so I was supporting myself with one arm holding a tree as they neared with her in front.  They still had not noticed me standing behind the tree so I greeted them but with the proximity it startled her.  (I'm a slender guy so the tree mostly blocked their view of me.)  They appeared to be nearing 50 years old.  Here I was a solitary nude guy standing next to the trail as the rest of the group was still out of view.  I engaged them in casual conversation for a while and they commented about my hiking "free".  I said yes and conveyed how comfortable it was (it was a warm day), and let them know they were about to encounter a whole group of us "free" hikers.

Later on when the group caught up to me they mentioned they had also chatted a while with the couple.  I had apparently stimulated their curiosity and they had thought up some questions to ask.

There is a small fast moving river near the trailhead and when our group returned the couple was at the trailhead and let us know they had hiked the rest of the trail nude after our previous encounter and spent time nude at the river in the sunshine -- apparently the first time in their long marriage they had done something like that and they were joyous about the whole experience and by the sounds of it it wasn't going to be their last time.  It really seemed to spark something in their relationship, which was wonderful to see.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on July 02, 2018, 04:52:15 PM
We're all naturist, we just don't know it yet.... ;)
Jbee
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Bob Knows on July 03, 2018, 12:53:54 AM
There is a small fast moving river near the trailhead and when our group returned the couple was at the trailhead and let us know they had hiked the rest of the trail nude after our previous encounter and spend time nude at the river in the sunshine -- apparently the first time in their long marriage they had done something like that and they were joyous about the whole experience and by the sounds of it it wasn't going to be their last time.  It really seemed to spark something in their relationship, which was wonderful to see.


That's a wonderful experience.   Many people would love to be naked in the woods if someone gives them "permission."  They wear clothes because clothes are "required."  Meeting your group lifted the cultural control they have had to live with and they responded by celebrating being natural in nature.  Hooray for everyone involved. 

I have long believed that a percent of those who see us naked will sooner or later give it a try and enjoy being free.  Seeing a naked person shows that it is possible and acceptable to part of the "others."  What will others think?  Some others will applaud nudism. 

So glad they found you.   
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: nuduke on July 03, 2018, 02:43:05 PM

Yes, it's nice, Rebus, that you created some 'converts' from your good example i.e. that you were enjoying your nudity peaceably and that it was a positive experience for you and your companions.

Hmm...maybe all we need to create a worldwide naturist emancipation is a full 50,000 seat auditorium in 50 states and 100 countries, a microphone and no clothes!
Hallelujah!!
John   ;D
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on July 03, 2018, 08:37:14 PM
If it wasn't illegal, we could do these things. Incremental, a naturally clad body would become a norm, accepted as it is, no big deal to others.

Oh, to have the carrot to draw people to a large gathering, but require them to be nude. In mass, they would have to notice that it was harmless and liberating, if not want more. They would feel at last more comfortable with their physics, their perceived flaws, after seeing so many others as they truly are perfect in their imperfection.

What would they trade for their clothing for a few hours? Just the weighing and contemplation would give them a new consideration of the value of presenting oneself as oneself, instead of hiding under a false charade. Of course some would dig in even deeper, without trying it.

Even though these nude venues draw a small percentage of the population, for example the nude restaurants, the publicity makes people think and talk about it. Many will project themselves into it and give their values some reconsideration. They see others are doing it, and that is just the same peer conformity that keeps them in clothes and oppressed. They can see possibilities, adventure, or excitement.
Jbee
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on July 04, 2018, 03:00:27 AM
See https://www.facebook.com/events/244780216090407/

I'm actually in the middle of the banner line-up.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Bob Knows on July 04, 2018, 06:38:13 AM
See https://www.facebook.com/events/244780216090407/

I'm actually in the middle of the banner line-up.

Looks good.   Wish I could go.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on July 04, 2018, 07:14:26 AM
Please, keep me notified. I may very well be up that way for a time next summer 2019.
Jbee
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on August 01, 2018, 07:18:40 AM
Returned from the five days of nude group hiking in the Tillamook OR area.  It went well and we had about a dozen hikers at various locations.  We base camped at Mountaindale Resort and I happened to run into a familiar looking guy there.  We started chatting and he, not recognizing me told me of how he got into nudism, relating a story of how a year ago he and his wife happened to run into a group of nude hikers.  He informed me his wife took to it enthusiastically while he was at first hesitant, but now they travel around to various naturist destinations.  It's opened a new chapter in their relationship. I had to share with him that I was that nude guy he first encountered.
 8)
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on August 01, 2018, 10:43:24 PM
Looking a lot different out of context and dressed?
Jbee
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on August 02, 2018, 12:10:53 AM
Looking a lot different out of context and dressed?
Jbee

Could be. In last year's forest encounter described a few posts earlier and this year at the naturist resort, there was some difference in that I was wearing shoes and a hydration pack the first time and nothing the second time.  :)

Actually, I assume the first encounter with a nude person was a bit overwhelming and he may have been focused as much on his wife, gauging her reaction, as me -- along with the passage of time.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: John P on August 02, 2018, 04:19:50 AM
Is there any chance that you could persuade Henry to join this forum? I'm a real fan of his.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on August 02, 2018, 04:33:31 AM
Is there any chance that you could persuade Henry to join this forum? I'm a real fan of his.

I've forwarded your request.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on August 02, 2018, 04:42:11 AM
I should probably add that this year we encountered a lot more people on the trails.  Reactions ran the gamut from amusement to indifference to parents shielding their kids faces so they couldn't see and/or running away.  Some spent quite some time with us conversing or hiking alongside.

A handful of us also participated in the monthly Portland Full Moon nude bike ride around town which attracted a couple dozen or so riders of mixed gender.  That was fun and the reactions of bystanders was typically very enthusiastic and supportive.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on August 02, 2018, 09:22:26 PM
Any more specific numbers like percentages of how many of these parents that freaked out on their children's behalf out of ignorance? I've been compiling anecdotal information as accurately as I can for a few years now. We actually used the information when we spoke with the forest ranger about Redington Pass.

What I have come up with are 2% give or take will respond poorly. Roughly 20% are confused and uncomfortable about how to react to this strange encounter. So, by far the vast majority have no problem, amused or indifferent. Only a tiny minority, more likely with children have any qualms.

Encounters with children are less usual and most observations are made by people who are afraid of mismanaged law, which is often more severe with children involved. So, we don't have a very good picture of how parents and children generally react. DF and I will simply sitdown so that our genitals are not exposed to be legal, or wrap something around just to avoid the hassle when children are around.

"and/or running away". I'd like to hear more of that story. Someone ran away when they saw you? ;D
Jbee



 
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: BlueTrain on August 02, 2018, 10:26:41 PM
It is interesting to think about all the people one has passed ("encountered") when hiking or camping in the mountains. As a guess, I imagine I have seen less than a hundred other people on the trail in the last 45 years, counting only those times I've been by myself. But twenty of those I saw at the same time. Of course, I'm not out to see other people, nor am I there to be seen either. I have been seen nude, however, a number of times, without any negative reaction. One of those times, though, a man who did not appear to be phased by my nudity, did let me know that a family group that included children was following close behind. So I covered up.

There were indeed children but I have otherwise rarely seen children on the trail when I've been out by myself. And I can imagine a parent being disturbed by the sight of an old naked man. But I have gotten strange enough looks when I was wearing shorts. Maybe I look strange no matter what.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on August 02, 2018, 11:07:09 PM
There was only one family, mom, dad and kids, that did the "shield the kids" thing, and it really was the father that was visibly upset.  The mom was actually smiling and friendly.  The kids were following dads orders and mom just played along with dad's seeming offence.
At about the same time and place, there was an elderly man who at first sight ran to what appeared to be his wife who was off trail, and basically ordered her to not look, reminding me of that Ray Stevens song, "The Streak"... "Don't look Ethel!"
There were some 20 to 30 somethings that seemed embarrassed and afraid to look.  Most were indifferent.  Another group of 20 somethings was happy to be hiking along with us and engaged in lengthy conversation before they finally went their own way.  Another guy hung out with us, became our camera man for a while and appeared entirely comfortable.  He was a Korean mountain climber in his 50's (though looked younger) and we shared information on a variety of topics.

So I'd say roughly <5% mildly upset, 15% awkward, unsure how to react, 40% indifferent, and 40% comfortable, curious, or enthusiastic.

On the bike ride in the city, only one person appeared upset (and antagonistic) which was when the group was forming up.  There were at least a couple hundred that were cheering and shouting encouragement during the ride.  I didn't hear anything derogatory during the actual ride.

Gender-wise, during both events numerically the gals were by far the most accepting and friendly.  The only hostility came from guys.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on August 03, 2018, 05:22:17 PM
So, the pattern continues. This time 5% instead of 2 to 4%, meaning two guys with masculine bravado and set in their idea of what the world that they own is. Hopefully, after thought discussion was, "that wasn't really so bad", instead of status quo, "ugg bad, nasty."

When my son was born, I felt vulnerable when naked out in the tooleys with him and my exceptionally attractive wife. We took it to safe resorts for a while. I suppose the opposite of these two, but that same protector inside.
Jbee
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: BlueTrain on August 03, 2018, 05:25:21 PM
I think that two guys together could be the worst. If there is any negativity there, they will egg one another on, trying to outdo one another. Of course, you own appearance and manner will make a difference, too, and besides, you never will know how someone will react.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on August 03, 2018, 06:35:40 PM
When out on a trail, we find that the greater odds are about 97 to one that the reaction will not be adverse. Most people are reasonable. When naked people are acting as though there are not naked people, that is acting as everything is normal and on the up and up, others are more likely to be at ease. Just like clothed hiking, but acting suspicious.

Even a negative reaction is not threatening to us. The threat is law enforcement, or physical abuse. Law enforcement doesn't track down naturist activities unless it is convenient, or if it applies to the trail's jurisdiction. As for physical abuse, my fantasies were like you say, two dudes getting obnoxious, or offensive, and attacking a female that I would be with. Attack is even more infrequent. It is the odds of rape. Animal attack would be more likely, I might think.

The problems are often linked to alcohol, and/or them getting too comfortable during prolonged contact. This takes that 2 to 4% down to nil. The worst that might occur would be akin to construction workers making rude comments and sexual innuendos. Just keep walking away. I've had women act more like New York construction workers, too, but not out on a trail, not that that couldn't happen.

If a prude wants to give a lecture in some remote area, I would just state that I'm offended and that I'm leaving. Still this dwells on the slim odds that the person gets upset by their own ignorance. If I act comfortable and casual, they are likely to take my lead. Another thing is people don't go out into a forest for confrontation. They are there for the opposite reasons. Otherwise, they'd be where the people are.

Personally, I don't get out to be with other people, where there are few people. This could be a part of the reason that other people don't respond negatively, too. It might be the same hiking clothed. Some are polite and friendly, some are ready to ignore others, choosing to give a quick hello and get on with their activity.

Some people think of hiking as a family activity, rated G. They expect that, especially around camping areas and trail-heads. Our movie rating systems seem to reflect and reinforce those perceptions. We're sometimes dealing with that mentality. Nature to them, seems to be some kind of Disneyland. Disneyland is a fantasy land. Disneyland imposes a false world and a narrow sense of values upon reality...but even "Pollyanna" had her skinny-dip scene.

What I'm getting at is that there is lots of squawk and worries about people that might not need be of concern, if it wasn't for these very few in this world infected by this social disease of mandatory clothing. Out on a fairly remote trail, no worries, smile, be happy, feel accepted, or at least politely tolerated.

There are other concerns from those very few, but unless they are taking pictures and hurrying away to complain to a cop, who will have nothing else to do but wait at a trailhead for hours in the chance that you will return...if they can even find a cop....

Then, there is this safety in numbers thing. We recently went walk about, no backup, with a group of seven like minded. Nobody there but us, but, there is a psychological advantage to be had apart from being alone, or just paired.  As a group, we're a movement and democratic majority, a beachhead, the norm, the reasonable normality gauged on the principles of conformist thought patterns. That makes sense to people...somehow. "Gee, everybody seems to be doing it, maybe I should think this thing through."
Jbee
 
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: BlueTrain on August 03, 2018, 07:38:08 PM
I'm not so sure that there is safety in numbers, although it might be different in the backwoods. But on a beach where nudity is clearly not legal, it could draw more law enforcement than it might otherwise. But there are other issues, issues not necessarily related to public nudity.

There seems to be an attitude on the part of some hikers and campers that the trail belongs to them. All others are merely tolerated. I hesitate to be more specific, only it certainly does not apply to all hikers and campers. The idea is that the trail or the campground was created especially for them and that others merely get in the way. The same exclusive attitude is found in other places, too. The fact that a few, and they are very few, hikers like to be nude really doesn't enter into the problem.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on August 04, 2018, 02:06:58 AM
There seems to be an attitude on the part of some hikers and campers that the trail belongs to them. All others are merely tolerated. I hesitate to be more specific, only it certainly does not apply to all hikers and campers. The idea is that the trail or the campground was created especially for them and that others merely get in the way. The same exclusive attitude is found in other places, too. The fact that a few, and they are very few, hikers like to be nude really doesn't enter into the problem.

I run into that quite often.  I hike wilderness areas with llamas.  Many horse riders are snobbish at the least, and outright hostile at times.  They get very upset at the fact that their horse is terrified of "predatory" llamas, not accepting responsibility for their inadequately trained horse.  Even if the horse behaves they still often have the attitude that the wilderness is for their use only and llamas, goats, etc., should all be banned.  Again such expressions of hostility come from men, not the women.  Same goes for encountering nudity.  I've had mounted women encounter me while free hiking without incident.  I also once encountered a woman who rode the trails nude.  (Not something I've done yet -- I would really have liked to ask her if I could try it but we had obligations to get to different places ASAP.)

Outside of wilderness areas I've encountered riders on bicycles and dirt motorcycles.  I haven't had a significant problem with either.  Bikers are typically in too much of a hurry to dwell on anything and motorcyclists are usually very courteous, sensitive to their own precariousness at being allowed on the trails and wanting to avoid conflict.  Riders of quad runners are the worst -- often obnoxious, sometimes inebriated and looking for conflict.

Wilderness backpackers are the easiest to deal with.  Even when nude hiking with llama(s) I've never had a problem.  They're typically friendly, inquisitive (and envious).  Day hikers are a potential problem nude, but not so much with a llama along (which can elicit some rather incredulous expressions on peoples faces, unsure of what to make of it ;).
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: BlueTrain on August 04, 2018, 12:16:49 PM
What is most unfortunate, and something that we ourselves are probably guilty of, too, is simply judging someone from their appearance without even speaking to them. It's the "first impressions" thing. I even expect that we do that when we see a dog. Of course, the dog may be doing the same thing, too. One's first impression of someone else may be spot on but it's still not fair, really. For example, you see someone who's outfitted with all the latest stuff from the outdoor shop and you think one thing. Then along comes someone who looks like they shop at the Army-Navy store and you think something else.

So, you can easily imagine what goes through someone's head when they see a naked man, especially an older naked man. And doesn't "naked" sound worse than "nude?"
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: nudewalker on August 04, 2018, 05:21:46 PM
Lately I have found; and it's been verified with many discussions  at both the trail head and campground, that there is a new wave of  people in the outdoors. Mostly it is a combination of money spent plus the quality of equipment equals the better outdoors person.  Al of us older and wiser ones get a chuckle out of the arrogance some people exhibit then watch as their equipment gets destroyed. Other than the RV, I'm more of the Army-Navy store type not REI.

Then there is the issue of mountain bikers. I must say most are very respectful but there is an element who feel that the trail belongs to them ad we hikers are a pain in their  saddle. Not to mention the erosion they cause by their riding.

Bluetrain mentioned the difference between nude and naked. I've seen news articles with banners like "Nude woman seen in park" or "Naked man sen in park". Nude has a more subtle connotation than the stark reality of naked.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: Rebus on August 04, 2018, 05:43:42 PM
What is most unfortunate, and something that we ourselves are probably guilty of, too, is simply judging someone from their appearance without even speaking to them. It's the "first impressions" thing. I even expect that we do that when we see a dog. Of course, the dog may be doing the same thing, too. One's first impression of someone else may be spot on but it's still not fair, really. For example, you see someone who's outfitted with all the latest stuff from the outdoor shop and you think one thing. Then along comes someone who looks like they shop at the Army-Navy store and you think something else.

So, you can easily imagine what goes through someone's head when they see a naked man, especially an older naked man. And doesn't "naked" sound worse than "nude?"

I always make it a point to initiate conversation, even if it's just a hello in quick passing.  Something as simple as a friendly greeting can dispel some misconceptions.  Silence really leaves them wondering and less at ease.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: BlueTrain on August 04, 2018, 07:51:12 PM
The Army-Navy/surplus stores have all but disappeared around here and so have the independent (non-chain) outdoor stores. I shop at REI. Don't buy much but I still shop there.

One area of interest to me is camping from the "golden era" of camping (one of them, anyway) of the time of Horace Kephart and George Washington Sears. I am also interested in the Gold Rush of Alaska era, too. And all the junk I have reflects that. My interests don't end there, of course, but sometimes my interests coincide, like hiking and nudism, which naturally evolved into nude hiking.
Title: Re: FreeHiking group in NW Oregon
Post by: jbeegoode on May 08, 2019, 08:19:57 PM
Are you doing the free hiking to hot springs thing this year?

I found a group here in Arizona that situates homeless llamas and alpacas.
Jbee