Free Range Naturism

Naturism => General Naturism Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Knows on November 23, 2018, 11:23:25 PM

Title: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on November 23, 2018, 11:23:25 PM
Mayor of crime ridden London focuses on gender neutral toilets despite study showing it puts women at risk

London mayor Sadiq Khan has replaced female toilets and shower rooms at London’s City Hall with “gender neutral” facilities.

This has given rise to worries that the changes will be made across the city putting biological women at risk.

The changes have been made in the staff areas on the upper floors, according to sources inside the headquarters of the Greater London Authority (GLA) and the Mayor of London offices.

https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/11/mayor-of-crime-ridden-london-focuses-on-gender-neutral-toilets-despite-study-showing-it-puts-women-at-risk/#.W_e74DgYxQY.twitter (https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/11/mayor-of-crime-ridden-london-focuses-on-gender-neutral-toilets-despite-study-showing-it-puts-women-at-risk/#.W_e74DgYxQY.twitter)
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on November 24, 2018, 08:09:05 AM
What can be done about the rapists, grabbing women by the genitals? We know that the problem isn't the exposure of women to kinds of assault, but the behavior of ignorant men.

Apparently there are no urinals in the toilets.
Jbee
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on November 24, 2018, 06:37:34 PM
Paris going public for a place to pee.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-urinals/paris-residents-peeved-at-very-public-eco-friendly-urinals-idUSKBN1KY1L7

PARIS (Reuters) - A new set of eco-friendly but completely exposed urinals deployed on the streets of Paris are provoking uproar from locals.
One of the bright red “urinoirs” installed on the Ile Saint-Louis, not far from Notre Dame cathedral and overlooking tourist boats passing on the Seine, has caused particular indignation.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: John P on November 24, 2018, 09:30:35 PM
In London they've had this contraption since 2002:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2382831.stm

Dan and I passed by there one night, and I asked if he'd care to demonstrate it while I took a picture. Of course he was willing:
https://i.imgur.com/PsQl0I1.jpg
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on November 24, 2018, 11:20:08 PM
In London they've had this contraption since 2002:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2382831.stm

It seems to me that the more often people find themselves "exposed" in a public place or see other people being "exposed" in public the less sensitive they become to casual sight of other people being bodies. 


Quote
Councillor Judith Warner said: "This disgusting habit is a growing problem and we are determined to try and eradicate it.

Taking a pee is a "disgusting habit" apparently.  Perhaps Ms. Warner refrains from passing water and hasn't taken a wizz since she was 5 years old.  But, somehow I doubt that she eradicated her own "disgusting habit."  Or, perhaps its her misanthropic attitude that needs to be eradicated. 
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on November 25, 2018, 06:52:42 AM
Yea, better to pee anywhere, perhaps alleyways where the combined use of many people leaves a constant bouquet for any passersby. She doesn't know that people do this nasty thing when they need to, so better to give them a sanitary, less problematic spot to relieve themselves.
Jbee
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: ric on November 25, 2018, 10:21:27 AM
Was in a big bookshop in Exeter this week,.   Actually purchased a pot of tea in the cafe.  Then went looking for the facilities...... 2 doors in the back corner hidden behind a bookcase.... Both had a little male graphic and a female one.....one on topthe other, but opposite ways up,  I'm guessing it used to be a maletoilet and a female one .... Both rooms were identical a wc and a wash basin.     Sinple to make them gender neutral by adjusting the signage , has the benefit of no need to queue when there's a free toilet with the wrong lable.

In short I don't see it as a problem if it's done properly...... Indeed can be a benefit.... At the airport last month the women were invading the male toilets cos their queue was Soo long.

Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: BlueTrain on November 26, 2018, 12:24:09 PM
I had that experience at a motorway fuel stop in France, with girls (that is, young women) using the men's restroom. Didn't seem to cause any problem for anyone.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Peter S on November 26, 2018, 05:11:02 PM
It’s quite common, especially among small coffee shops and the like, for the facilities to be shareable. Much more flexible that way for a start, and more economic to set up. Been that way for years without the press getting upset about it. The fuss that bob refers to in the original post is because (a) it’s the mayor of London and (b) someone got all politically correct about LGBT issues over it.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on November 27, 2018, 01:59:59 AM
It’s quite common, especially among small coffee shops and the like, for the facilities to be shareable. Much more flexible that way for a start, and more economic to set up. Been that way for years without the press getting upset about it. The fuss that bob refers to in the original post is because (a) it’s the mayor of London and (b) someone got all politically correct about LGBT issues over it.


When its a 1 person space it really doesn't matter who the person is.   It gets more complicated in larger facilities with several plumbing fixtures lined up. 
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: nuduke on November 29, 2018, 09:58:02 PM

Wahoo! :D Pop up toilets in the great metropolis!
I must try one next time I visit Villiers Street at night, which I occasionally do after a visit to the theatre or other appointment.  It's the street that runs down the side of Charing Cross station and leads to Embankment Tube station.  Been along it many times.
What happens if you happen to be standing on the toilet roof plate when it decides to rise from the ground?  If it's late and your pretty inebriated it could come as a terribly shocking surprise.  You could end up with PTSD - Post Toilet Stress Disorder! :)
...With apologies to anyone with real PTSD!


John
PS I am miffed, I wanted to find a synonym for rising up or ascending etc. beginning with P but there isn't one!
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on November 29, 2018, 11:21:53 PM
The Pop-UP feature would appear to be a large initial cost and a significant maintenance cost.  The Pop-UP feature would probably cost more initially than installing another urinal on the next street.   Its cool, but why?  Don't people need to pee in the day time?   
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: John P on December 01, 2018, 05:33:29 AM
Villiers St, the location of the pop-up urinal, runs from the Strand down to the river at Embankment underground station. You can get the train there, or you can walk across a footbridge to Waterloo station, which is the terminus for trains that serve a big section of the suburbs. Beyond the Strand is Soho and the West End, with lots of theaters, restaurants and pubs. People often head home down Villiers St after consuming a happy amount of alcohol, which may give them both the desire to unload some liquid, and a lack of inhibition that allows them to do so in the street. Most of this happens in the evening--during the day, the same street is packed with commuters and tourists, and the sight of men using the urinal wouldn't be welcome. Some might say it's not a fine thing after dark, but it's better than the same action performed without the urinal. It is, shall we say, a pragmatic solution to a problem. Before anyone asks, no, there's nothing there for women. It's blatantly unfair.

Fun fact: Villiers St was constructed as part of a 17th-century housing development on the estate of the Duke Of Buckingham. The duke agreed to sell his land if streets were named after every word in his name and title, "George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham". And so five streets were laid out--George, Villiers, Duke and Buckingham Streets, and one called "Of Alley". Unfortunately it's since been renamed, but not totally forgotten:
https://i.imgur.com/qI8ln5h.jpg
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: rrfalcon on December 01, 2018, 05:12:31 PM
Was in a big bookshop in Exeter this week,.   Actually purchased a pot of tea in the cafe.  Then went looking for the facilities...... 2 doors in the back corner hidden behind a bookcase.... Both had a little male graphic and a female one.....one on topthe other, but opposite ways up,  I'm guessing it used to be a maletoilet and a female one .... Both rooms were identical a wc and a wash basin.     Sinple to make them gender neutral by adjusting the signage , has the benefit of no need to queue when there's a free toilet with the wrong lable.

In short I don't see it as a problem if it's done properly...... Indeed can be a benefit.... At the airport last month the women were invading the male toilets cos their queue was Soo long.
I saw the same thing at the Musee d'Orsay in Paris. Long line for the women's toilets, so some younger women were using the stalls in the men's toilets. This had them walking between the stalls and the men using the urinals on the opposite wall, but nobody was bothered.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on December 01, 2018, 07:40:48 PM
This had them walking between the stalls and the men using the urinals on the opposite wall, but nobody was bothered.

Or, nobody was brave enough to object and tell the ladies to go away. 

Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on December 02, 2018, 06:29:49 AM
Same might be said of people on the trail saying nothing. Mostly, they don't really care.

Guys don't care.

One might expect eeks and screams when a guy is in the ladies room, but I never found that as long as I was escorted by a lady, or two to the stall. In my memory, I've never been in a ladies room unescorted, however. I got some funny looks as I left and the population had exploded while we were in the stall. This was several decades ago, I might add. The late seventies and early eighties were a much wilder time and this is in bars/night clubs, as a demographic.
Jbee

Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: BlueTrain on December 02, 2018, 03:30:30 PM

Or, nobody was brave enough to object and tell the ladies to go away.
[/quote]

What would have been your reaction?
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: John P on December 02, 2018, 06:54:38 PM
See the wonderful practical devices they have in France. Or, see what French women have to endure:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Uritrottoir&client=firefox-b-1-ab&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTzsb0zoHfAhUrn-AKHRs7CWsQsAR6BAgDEAE&biw=1366&bih=664

Uri = that should be obvious
Trottoir  = sidewalk/pavement

Hence "Uritrottoir".
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on December 02, 2018, 08:11:21 PM
See the wonderful practical devices they have in France. Or, see what French women have to endure:

They don't provide relief stations for french women.  I guess women with skirts just have to pee on the street.  Women with pants are stuck.

Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: ric on December 02, 2018, 09:24:23 PM
This had them walking between the stalls and the men using the urinals on the opposite wall, but nobody was bothered.

Or, nobody was brave enough to object and tell the ladies to go away.


not sure if it would be brave or foolish to tell a bunch of cross legged french women they couldnt have a pee :)
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: JOhnGw on December 07, 2018, 08:17:50 AM
Unisex toilet facilities have always been commonplace in French cafes and restaurants.
In larger establishments there would be a room with the WC cubicles and washbasins with a screened corner containing urinals while in a small café there would be a single WC cubicle with the washbasin and a discreetly placed urinal in the anteroom.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: rrfalcon on December 09, 2018, 03:54:43 PM
Yes, it seems to be common in France. IIRC, the toilet facilities beneath the plaza in front of Notre Dame cathedral are approached through a long hallway.  The hall opens into a single long room (as if you were coming up the leg of a letter 'T' to the head) with an attendant's booth at the opening. To the right are the women's stalls, and to the left are the men's stalls and urinals, but it's essentially one room.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Davie on December 09, 2018, 04:07:40 PM
There's a lot of fuss about this. For years small restaurants and other premises have had one or two toilets simply marked WC and surprise surprise there's never ever been an issue about this. All this marking with "gender neutral" - people understand the simple WC

Davie  8)
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on December 09, 2018, 08:26:52 PM
Yea, DAvie. Much to do about nothin'.

A couple of radio stations nixed "Baby it's Cold Outside" because, they say, we are in a "me too" and more sensitive time and concern of encouraging rape! I'm thinking that that there is something afoot more than irresponsible news. Seems the move is Victorian values guised as PC coming from some sick people.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/05/673770902/baby-it-s-cold-outside-seen-as-sexist-frozen-out-by-radio-stations

I like the video with a woman getting frisky on a reluctant Red Skelton.

Jbee
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on December 09, 2018, 09:18:30 PM
Seems the move is Victorian values guised as PC coming from some sick people.
Jbee

Yep.  You got it. 
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: JOhnGw on December 24, 2018, 10:54:43 PM
Not sure if this is relevant but there is a shot in the UK edit of the film "The Full Monty" showing a woman urinating in a men's urinal.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on December 25, 2018, 12:31:28 AM
So, these contraptions, may be unisex?

Someone might put up an unofficial sign stating that and have an interesting evening watching the takers figure that out on a Saturday night.
Jbee
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Peter S on December 27, 2018, 08:24:57 AM
Not sure if this is relevant but there is a shot in the UK edit of the film "The Full Monty" showing a woman urinating in a men's urinal.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if this is properly feasible? Obviously women don’t have the directional control mechanism that men do, but still .... is the seated position only a throwback to some sort of Victorian idea of “ladyness” or was it ever thus?
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on December 27, 2018, 09:34:54 PM
Ladies have good control, or wet feet. Of course there is variation in the angle of the original outlet from body to body. From what I can tell, she would have to be very tall, or straddle the bowl.
Jbee
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: BlueTrain on December 27, 2018, 10:49:53 PM
Men are not known to have perfect control. If you don't believe me, ask your wife.
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on December 30, 2018, 07:00:29 PM
I've been practicing all of my life. Its matter of pride, or some such nonsense, that I have control, or should I say mastery.

Older guys tend to loose some of the natural ability, no matter how much they practice. When I was 12, we would have pissing contests in the boys john. Could get started, then back all the way across the room and then get back to the urinal, all on target. I remember my infant son laying on the exam table and squirting his pediatrician in the eye.

So, the waste just slides down into the river? Was drunken pissing a safety hazard before? A major cause of death is from hikers pissing over cliffs and slipping off.

Jbee
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: rrfalcon on January 05, 2019, 06:44:49 PM
Men are not known to have perfect control. If you don't believe me, ask your wife.
Or anyone who cleans men's toilets! ;D
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on January 05, 2019, 08:16:22 PM
Ladies have good control, or wet feet. Of course there is variation in the angle of the original outlet from body to body. From what I can tell, she would have to be very tall, or straddle the bowl.
Jbee


Ladies make huge messes, ask anyone in janitorial work or the plumbing industry.  In public facilities women "hover" rather than sit.  Their stream comes out at high velocity and then they have flaps that cause a splattering.  A hovering female gets the seat wet, and then the next has to hover or sit in the water.  Women's restrooms get much more messed up than men's restrooms.  My roommate was the janitorial supervisor while I was in college.  That's standard throughout the industry, at least in America.  Outdoors standing up women tend to water their own legs and feet. 

Women have higher stream velocity due to short internal plumbing.  Some can pee farther than men if they tip pelvis forward and hold flaps apart.  Men should never get into a distance peeing contest with a woman.

The plumbing industry is now making stand up urinals for women again.  I saw photos on another web site.  It had a protrusion to fit between her legs for collecting pee.   I don't know what country it was from, perhaps India. 

Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: jbeegoode on January 05, 2019, 09:52:40 PM
While in Bolivia decades ago, along with derbie hats and pigtails, the women wore bulbous skirts with petty coats enough to make a hoop effect. It looked like tent from the waist down. At a local Saturday market, one Native lady simply squatted in the gutter next to the sidewalk. Causally acting, her actual function was hidden from view. Only a tale-tell stream of fluid ran down the street from under her. Her keniestetic position no different from a host of other activities that a lady might do.

Squatting on the side of the road has been common for women until more  recent times. As a boy in Japan, I remember grandmas on the side of the road squatting and even wiping in public in farmlands at the base of Mt. Fuji. Perhaps that is how women got to be the ones who get to wear skirts in so many cultures.

For a time, modern Western women no long peed at all. They would power their noses and defy nature in white gloves, bullet shell breasts and impossible shoes.

This public pee station is a solution to a problem. We are still not certain what the problem is, or was. Anyway, it seems to have been perceived a men's problem.

I do like their eco-friendly makeup. They make compost and have green plants on them.
Jbee
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: nib on January 07, 2019, 08:40:56 PM
This had them walking between the stalls and the men using the urinals on the opposite wall, but nobody was bothered.

Or, nobody was brave enough to object and tell the ladies to go away.

Happens all the time in France and no-one ever seems to object!

And of course it's quite common in a French loo, even in small places such as restaurants, to find a woman at a table down there collecting money.

In a tourist spot it Italy once there was only the one bog, or at least one entrance, and one long queue, and inside a set of WC cubicles on one side and a set of urinals on the other. The attendant was going along the queue sending men to the front saying "men come forward please - no queue for men" in various languages. (And assuming that there were no shy men!).

nib
Title: Re: UK London restrooms go gender neutral
Post by: Bob Knows on January 07, 2019, 09:20:17 PM

And of course it's quite common in a French loo, even in small places such as restaurants, to find a woman at a table down there collecting money.

My experience in France was that the Restroom Attendant was always a woman.  Apparently the French consider that to be women's work.

Quote
In a tourist spot it Italy once there was only the one bog, or at least one entrance, and one long queue,

Having a long queue shows that the facility did not adequately provide for the body needs of their customers.  That is a major failure of architect and owner in my opinion. 

This discussion reminds me of New York City, USA, where they have a local law requiring buildings to have 2X as many toilets for women as for men.  Tall buildings are required to have a women's toilet on every floor, but only every other floor for men.   They call that "Potty Parity."   Its a feminist version of "equal rights." 

Bob