Free Range Naturism

Naturism => General Naturism Discussion => Topic started by: Ed on January 04, 2019, 06:18:20 PM

Title: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Ed on January 04, 2019, 06:18:20 PM
Already at conventions including some I have attended some of the restrooms have become Gender Neutral. I know that there has been a lot of talk both for and against. As for me I have no problem with them, I have used them every time I need to use them and had zero problems. Funny thing they are also the least used restrooms in the entire convention. I know every time I use one I have no wait. Which given how apart some of the restrooms are that is a good thing.

If you don't mind seeing a woman pass you on the way to the toilets all the while you are standing at a urinal. There isn't an issue, but still they are the least used. If others have issues, let them I'll just do what I need to and that's it.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 04, 2019, 11:06:43 PM
The "natural" grocery store my wife likes to shop formerly had two single person restrooms labeled male and female.  I noticed the last time I was there that it now has M/F labels on both.   That makes more sense since there was no plumbing or fixture differences.  Now the next person can use whichever room is available.  That will reduce waiting time if a same sex person is there first.

I have not seen any multiple people use restrooms in the US go unisex or gender neutral.   What conventions did you attend where that has happened?   Did they take over the former MEN's restroom and now allow women to also use?  Did they take over the former women's restroom and allow men to use?  Or, did they create a new larger restroom for everyone. 

During the Roman Empire they weren't so fastidious about bodies and body functions.  Toilets were arranged for Romans to sit and chat about the weather or politics while doing body functions.  They also did not have sex divisions.  This is Roman toilets.   Much more practical design.  Of course in England you would have to have weather protection for the whole group. 

(http://photos.bradkemp.com/4%20roman%20social%20toilet.jpeg)
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: nuduke on January 08, 2019, 09:34:14 PM

Gender neutral toilets don't have urinals, just cubicles.  I also feel one should be allowed a little privacy when enacting one's most personal functions!


I have a bigoted prejudice about gender segregation of toilets.  The men's never has a cue but the ladies does.  Why is that?  answer, ladies do all sorts of stupid slow things in the WC like refreshing their make up and spending ages on the pot!  Gender neutral loos simply subject men to having to cue and wait in smelly bogs!  And my experience of ladies toilets (which, whilst limited is more extensive than you might think!...er, I should add - for entirely ethical and noble reasons) is that ladies are dirty beasts when it comes to leaving the bog and sinks in a bad state!  Some of that experience has been from my wife who has had to visit sub-optimal ladies toilets in cues of women and has had horrendous and sometimes hilarious anecdotes to tell afterwards! 


One of the things that embarrasses me about the UK is that it is not difficult to encounter unhygienic, badly maintained, badly cleaned toilets especially in big public institutions like museums.  In my travels in the UK and Canada the standard of hygiene is exemplary in toilets (or restrooms!) everywhere (or almost).  I can never understand why we Brits cannot achieve similar standards of cleanliness and maintenance.


John
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 09, 2019, 04:43:19 PM

Gender neutral toilets don't have urinals, just cubicles.  I also feel one should be allowed a little privacy when enacting one's most personal functions!

I have a bigoted prejudice about gender segregation of toilets.  The men's never has a cue but the ladies does.  Why is that?  answer, ladies do all sorts of stupid slow things in the WC like refreshing their make up and spending ages on the pot!  Gender neutral loos simply subject men to having to cue and wait in smelly bogs!  John

The industry is trying to encourage women to use urinals.   Here is the new female urinals.  I'm not sure where these are installed. 

Like you say, John, women tend to take a lot longer for a variety of reasons not related to passing water.   Their insistence on wearing men's pants rather than skirts, and insistence on wearing inconvenient underwear even with a skirt, will make use of a urinal more difficult for women. 
 

(http://photos.bradkemp.com/xfemaleurinal.jpg)


(http://photos.bradkemp.com/xfemaleurinal2.jpg)
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 09, 2019, 05:40:26 PM
There are ways around those issues, I believe, although most women wear women's pants instead of men's pants. They are made differently, you understand. Yet in some countries, everybody wears pants, in others, nobody does.

We have a gender-neutral bathroom in our house. It's the latest thing.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 09, 2019, 06:17:13 PM

We have a gender-neutral bathroom in our house. It's the latest thing.

Do  you have a urinal for men in your home?    If not, why not? 
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 09, 2019, 09:49:58 PM
Nope. Why should we? The plumbing gives enough trouble without one more fixture to worry about.

All of this trouble with restrooms only began when those newfangled indoor privies started to become popular. What next? Gas lighting?
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: John P on January 09, 2019, 11:15:55 PM
A country boy, maybe from West Virginia, went into town one day and came home amazed. "They got these contraptions to wash your feet. Then you pull a handle, and it changes the water so you can wash the other foot!"

The Duke of Wellington called it "The biggest waste of water in the country. You spend half a pint, and wash away a few gallons." (I read that somewhere years ago, so it must be true.)
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 10, 2019, 01:23:47 AM
It so happens that I am from West Virginia, although I grew up in a small town that was the county seat. It even boasted a courthouse designed by an architect educated at the Ecole des Beaux Arts in Paris. But when I was still in high school, we moved out to the country, in the next county (and in a way, in the previous century) where we lived in a log house (not a cabin, mind you) that had no indoor toilet, no telephone and, sometimes, no running water. I now live outside of Washington, D.C., with deer in the back yard.

"With every kind of comfort - every house is all complete.
You can walk to privies in the rain and never wet your feet.
They've gone about as far as they can go.
Everything's up to date in Kansas City."
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 10, 2019, 02:30:54 AM
It so happens that I am from West Virginia, although I grew up in a small town that was the county seat. It even boasted a courthouse designed by an architect educated at the Ecole des Beaux Arts in Paris. But when I was still in high school, we moved out to the country, in the next county (and in a way, in the previous century) where we lived in a log house (not a cabin, mind you) that had no indoor toilet, no telephone and, sometimes, no running water. I now live outside of Washington, D.C., with deer in the back yard.

"With every kind of comfort - every house is all complete.
You can walk to privies in the rain and never wet your feet.
They've gone about as far as they can go.
Everything's up to date in Kansas City."
Where's teh quote from?

I was at a friends party during the holidays and she had an additional bidet system attached to the toilet. Not the usual. DAng ting squirted water from the toilet seat clear across the room and hit the mirror about four feet up. I had a mess to clean.
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 10, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
Those are a few lines from the musical "Oklahoma!", which opened in 1943. It also includes the song "Poor Jud is dead."

Oklahoma is OK. I was there for about six or eight months while I was in the army.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 10, 2019, 02:01:26 PM
I was at a friends party during the holidays and she had an additional bidet system attached to the toilet. Not the usual. DAng ting squirted water from the toilet seat clear across the room and hit the mirror about four feet up. I had a mess to clean.
Jbee

There are several different brands of add on body wash "bidet" things you can replace your toilet seat with.   I've thought about getting one if I have to move to a home without a bidet. 

Japan makes toilets with built in features such as warm water wash and music.   Not sold much in the US.   However you can order those add on things.  I've never used one.  That one that squirted across the room sounds like it needed some adjustment.  Probably the owner didn't know how to use or adjust it properly.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Peter S on January 10, 2019, 02:13:41 PM
It probably worked fine if you were sitting there instead of pressing the button to see what happened. Sounds like it would have been a forceful cleanout!
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 10, 2019, 11:34:56 PM
Yes, bidets require some practice. In France, there seemed to be a consistent standard giving a degree of expectation about the contraptions behavior. It started easy and then got stronger.

This thing was just a high power setting and one would have to aim carefully, before turning it on.

I prefer a warm washcloth after paper does the job.

Doesn't bidet have intentions for monthly ladies issues?

The old places in France that we often stayed in the 60's often had a bidet in the room, but a walk down the hall was necessary for general plumbing. We weren't so sure about their uses. It saved a chilly walk and sometimes a wait, down the hall, but we knew that pissing in one was faux paux...for some reason.

Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: nuduke on January 24, 2019, 01:21:08 PM

A previous house had a bidet in the bathroom with a small multi-jet fountain that came up vertically from the bidet base.  I have to say it was quite an erotic experience having your scrotum, anus and perineum caressed by a gentle fountain of warm water!  Not so when the water was stone cold!!


I have peed in a bidet before...why not?  The water goes down the same drain as the toilet pan!  I didn't make a habit of it!


We have stayed in places with a bidet in the bathroom and discovered they are really useful for washing your underwear and socks in!! :D :D


Looking for something funny to write about bidets I read this just now on a bidet manufacturers website:  "The multitude of toilet paper options available for purchase are staggering. On average, one roll of toilet paper costs $3 and Americans use approximately 34,000,000 rolls of toilet paper a day, which means that we spend a shocking $102,000,000 a day just on toilet paper! Purchasing a bidet seat  or bidet attachment can easily cut your toilet paper spending by 75% or more."  And evidently the recommended hygiene procedure is to use just water and not soap which dries out the skin in those regions, the manufacturer opines.


When we had a new bathroom added to our house about 3 years ago, I wanted a squat toilet and a bidet in that one.  The wife was dead against the squat toilet on grounds that her arthritis doesn't allow her to squat plus, since the bathroom was downstairs, that would be the one that guests might use and the old conformity prejudices wouldn't permit that much deviation from the norm!  Squatting to defecate, as I think we have discussed before is the best cure for perianal haemorrhoids a man can get!  Take it from me.  As a sufferer from as early as teenage, I haven't suffered for many years now thanks to the discovery of squatting!  But I digress.... :)


John
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Davie on January 24, 2019, 02:47:22 PM
How can you read the paper whilst squatting!! A good sitdown in the bog is a good escape from the real world

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 24, 2019, 04:46:04 PM
Looking for something funny to write about bidets I read this just now on a bidet manufacturers website:  "The multitude of toilet paper options available for purchase are staggering. On average, one roll of toilet paper costs $3 and Americans use approximately 34,000,000 rolls of toilet paper a day, which means that we spend a shocking $102,000,000 a day just on toilet paper! Purchasing a bidet seat  or bidet attachment can easily cut your toilet paper spending by 75% or more."  And evidently the recommended hygiene procedure is to use just water and not soap which dries out the skin in those regions, the manufacturer opines.

I quite using toilet paper more than 10 years ago when I got my bidet installed.    Warm water and no soap is good for a gentle wash off.   When I got my bidet I installed a soap holder nearby.  If you start using soap you end up with a soapy hand which needs further rinsing. 

My wife uses a bunch of it paper, mostly when she pees.  I will never understand women.

The paper industry spends a ton of cash promoting the use of paper and opposing common installation of bidet plumbing.  Follow the money.


Quote
When we had a new bathroom added to our house about 3 years ago, I wanted a squat toilet and a bidet in that one.  The wife was dead against the squat toilet on grounds that her arthritis doesn't allow her to squat plus, since the bathroom was downstairs, that would be the one that guests might use and the old conformity prejudices wouldn't permit that much deviation from the norm!  Squatting to defecate, as I think we have discussed before is the best cure for perianal haemorrhoids a man can get!  Take it from me.  As a sufferer from as early as teenage, I haven't suffered for many years now thanks to the discovery of squatting!  But I digress.... :)
John

My knees have never been comfortable squatting.  Not even when I was young.   I couldn't do it now.   I got one of those devices that lift your feet while sitting.  It puts my hip and other muscles into a "squat" position but without my knees having to take up the weight.   Then a couple of steps over to the bidet for a quick warm water wash and I'm good to return to whatever else i was doing.

Bob
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 24, 2019, 05:21:58 PM
Oh, I think people willingly use toilet paper with little concern for cost or environmental impact, although wood products are a renewable resource. Besides, companies that manufacture toilet paper and tissue spend "tons of cash" to get you to buy their brand instead of someone else's. If you spend $3 a roll, you're spending way too much. 
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 24, 2019, 09:41:30 PM
Oh, I think people willingly use toilet paper with little concern for cost or environmental impact,

Most people have never tried anything else.  Its all they know. 
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 24, 2019, 09:57:48 PM
Speaking only for myself, it's way, way down on my list of concerns. Maybe at the bottom.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 25, 2019, 09:07:17 AM
Well, my bottom is of considerable import to me!
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 25, 2019, 09:12:43 AM
The Tarahumara of the Sierra Madre are loosing their homeland to clear cutting. It is one of the most bio-diverse unique ecosystems on the planet and pretty pristine. These old growth trees are being turned into toilet paper.

Bidets are expensive. They need lots of space, nobody around here knows how t use one. Water is precious.

So, how do you dry and keep your pants dry when using a bidet, not that O don't have a solution for that? Do you use a towel?
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 25, 2019, 07:29:24 PM
The Tarahumara of the Sierra Madre are loosing their homeland to clear cutting. It is one of the most bio-diverse unique ecosystems on the planet and pretty pristine. These old growth trees are being turned into toilet paper.

Demand for toilet paper is causing massive deforestation worldwide.   Its a HUGE environmental problem and getting worse as Asian governments promote western toilets rather than roadsides.   A quick rinse with warm water makes one's bottom a lot more clean and cuts down no trees.  It also reduces paper problems in sewage collection and treatment. 

Women who also wipe when they pee tend to use several times as much paper as men. 

Quote
Bidets are expensive. They need lots of space, nobody around here knows how t use one. Water is precious.

I had to look it up.  Wall-mart gets something like $1 per roll depending on brand, etc.  You can get the really cheap industrial grade paper for about half that, or the fancy stuff for twice that much.   

I also looked up average usage.  https://www.controlnroll.com/how-much-toilet-paper-do-we-use/     Something like 50 rolls per year per person.   For a family that's $200 per year.  More for women than men. 

Looking again on Wal-mart they sell simple spray wash hoses for around $35.  They have toilet seats with built in bidet features from $50 to $200 or more. You can get the  Biobidet Ultimate Advanced Bidet Seat, Elongated, White  with Dual Nozzle Oscillating Wide Cleaning for  $300 including shipping.   Compared to a single year of paper purchases you can save money with the water wash.   

A very high end combination toilet and bidet with music, lighting, and warm air dry is around $2,600.    That's kind of excessive. 

My RV came with a simple hand held cold water spray nozzle on a hose.   While traveling I use it rather than paper. I've gotten used to feeling CLEAN all the time.  Even the simple spray and cold water beats not being clean. 

I'm not sure about water usage.  The warm water spray of a bidet can occasionally be prolonged because it feels good.  But the volume of water used isn't very high so it probably doesn't take as much water compared to producing paper and disposing of paper.  It does use a little more water in one's home.

Quote
So, how do you dry and keep your pants dry when using a bidet, not that O don't have a solution for that? Do you use a towel?
Jbee

Good question.   My wife bought some small white towels and we keep a stack of them near our bidet.  It does add one "small" load of wash every week or two to keep fresh towels.  Wife washes all the other towels twice per week anyway.

Compared to cutting down all those forests and the large scale toxic effluents from paper mills the bidet is a good solution even without the benefit of being clean all the time.

Bob
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 25, 2019, 07:37:09 PM
Hers's another question.  If nudist resorts installed bidets for their customers would they still need to make everyone sit on a towel?    Likely that the towels are needed because everyone is just smearing their poo around with a wad of paper because that's all that is available.    Just a thought about nudism and body cleanliness. 
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Davie on January 25, 2019, 10:52:16 PM
Yes because you wouldn't know if everyone had used it, just like no-one knows if every one has washed their hands after being to the bog.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 26, 2019, 12:44:24 AM
One doesn't always get perfectly clean and there can be a nasty perspiration coming from a butt crack. An oily sweaty slime can mess the sitting spot. I wipe major mess and then use a wash cloth to tidy up, but I still use a towel when I sit on my fabric furniture and often the wooden chairs, but it is mostly just me and DF sitting in the house.

I'm going to look further into this bidet idea, especially with a stack of towels. Bob, you have presented some very intriguing information, thank-you. Got me thinking.

This seems to me to conflict with composting toilets, which are popular here in the desert. They use no water, require no plumbing, no septic, can be used to grow things better. Now, with that, I'm back to a washcloth after paper. We use recycled T.P. From Trader Joes, which is at a competitive price. It breaks down biologically very well (I've been getting my septic system refurbished lately, first hand info).

DF has shown concern about my use of washcloths to finalize my cleansing. She was concerned that the crap wouldn't get out of the cloths, even with rinsing and washing. Do you wash in hot water, or bake towels in a dryer? I'm thinking stopping being so squeamish about a little left over shit that can be wiped and washed off, but I'm not the lady. I told her that I wasn't concerned, but my arguments were weak. I don't know that she is convinced and happy with my use of washcloths in that way. I squeeze out a washcloth after a shower and let it sit with some of the soap still in it, then use quarter sections and more of these for my butt. That way I'm not washing them in huge piles wasting water, time and effort.

Being nude does air out and dry much better than being clothed and cooped up. That oily slime will occur when wearing clothing which retards the airing out, much more than nude.

My use of bidets has had at times water dripping down my leg. When I pull the pants up, they get wet. I'm not always happy with the quality of the water there at those times, wondering which is rinse and which is clean water on my leg. Gotta stand up to dry my butt and the water dribbles down my leg. It has been kinda messy at times. MAybe, I'm just doing it wrong? So, I dislike bidets when wearing clothes, but they are not so bad when nude with a towel.
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 26, 2019, 03:44:22 PM
This seems to me to conflict with composting toilets, which are popular here in the desert. They use no water, require no plumbing, no septic, can be used to grow things better. Now, with that, I'm back to a washcloth after paper. We use recycled T.P. From Trader Joes, which is at a competitive price. It breaks down biologically very well (I've been getting my septic system refurbished lately, first hand info).

Not sure about the composting toilets.  A bidet would greatly reduce paper in a septic tank system.

Quote
DF has shown concern about my use of washcloths to finalize my cleansing. She was concerned that the crap wouldn't get out of the cloths, even with rinsing and washing. Do you wash in hot water, or bake towels in a dryer? I'm thinking stopping being so squeamish about a little left over shit that can be wiped and washed off, but I'm not the lady. I told her that I wasn't concerned, but my arguments were weak. I don't know that she is convinced and happy with my use of washcloths in that way. I squeeze out a washcloth after a shower and let it sit with some of the soap still in it, then use quarter sections and more of these for my butt. That way I'm not washing them in huge piles wasting water, time and effort.

My wife obtained a pile of little white towels.  I think they were sold as wash cloths.  I installed a small shelf near the bidet for the white towels.  After spraying for a while I rub myself with my hand in the spray water.  That ends up being clean and tidy for hand, butt cheeks, and anus.  The little towel ends up white and wet on a towel bar drying off.  If the towel comes out with a brown stain you haven't washed enough.  After a pile of little towels is collected she washes them in hot water and bleach.  All clean, white, and sanitary again. 


Quote
Being nude does air out and dry much better than being clothed and cooped up. That oily slime will occur when wearing clothing which retards the airing out, much more than nude.

If I were going outside at a nudist park after doing my business I would let myself drip dry.  Bodies do air dry well while naked.   Indoors I don't want to drip across the floor or make wet spots on chairs. 

Quote
My use of bidets has had at times water dripping down my leg. When I pull the pants up, they get wet. I'm not always happy with the quality of the water there at those times, wondering which is rinse and which is clean water on my leg. Gotta stand up to dry my butt and the water dribbles down my leg. It has been kinda messy at times. MAybe, I'm just doing it wrong? So, I dislike bidets when wearing clothes, but they are not so bad when nude with a towel.
Jbee

We have our little towels on a shelf near the bidet, but you are right that one needs to stand up to dry.   I usually don't get water running down my leg.  Maybe sitting there a minute after turning off the spray allows excess water to drip into the basin before standing up. 

I've gotten so used to being clean underneath that I really don't like staying in hotels and travel to other places where they don't have a wash facility.   

Bob
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 28, 2019, 05:40:38 PM
Bob wrote:"I've gotten so used to being clean underneath that I really don't like staying in hotels and travel to other places where they don't have a wash facility."

I feel somewhat similar about public toilets and deification. Washing off and airing out is superior to paper and skid marks. I prefer clean. Mostly, business gets taken care of first of the morning, then I've taken care of such issues for the day. I consider a shower an all over bidet and I drop the clothes as soon as I'm securely in the hotel room.

I often feel similar about wearing clothing. Often, it just doesn't make sense, it gets in the way, it can be uncomfortable and unhealthy, unless I'm engaged and distracted in some activity. Last thing that I do before leaving and the first thing when I return home, deal with clothing. Guess we all have our preferences.
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: ric on January 29, 2019, 11:01:17 AM
why is toilet paper soo expensive in the us? over here 3 quid would buy a pack of 9 rolls.

we allways use the cheapest tilet paper, its thinner than the branded products so degrades easier in our septic tank.

none of our bathrooms have the space for a bidet. but i honestly dont see the need for one,  when morning routine is out of bed , crap, shower , breakfast.

once arriving in a hotel late at night i peed in the odd looking porcelain bowl before realising the toilet was actually  behind the door.  and ive washed my feet in hotel bidets after a trip to the beach, easier to clean the sand out than in the shower cubicle.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 29, 2019, 12:15:08 PM
The lowest price at Wal-Mart is about $0.49 per roll, roughly equal to £0.37 or Ä0.43. The price was sometimes more when purchased in large packages, so beware. I don't know what it costs in other countries for comparison.

I hardly think that deforestation is happening because people use a lot of toilet paper and other disposable paper products but rather because the land is wanted for other uses such as agriculture or grazing. Deforestation has been going on for a long, long time, well before toilet paper and Sears-Roebuck catalogs were available. The biggest reason was because the lumber was needed. Trees are a renewable resource when forests are managed well, although some would object on the grounds that a tree farm, as they're called around here, are not diverse enough. It's something to think about as you sit around your off-grid wood-burning stove this winter.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: nuduke on January 29, 2019, 12:43:51 PM
morning routine is out of bed , crap, shower , breakfast.

What splendid regularity, ric!  Whilst breakfast is a similar regular routine for me the other two are not.  I shower in the evening mostly to get the day's sweat and dirt off before I go to bed.  I'm not a believer in taking whatever you have exuded or accreted during the day into bed with you and cuddling it all night.  I'd rather be clean between the sheets!  I'm in a minority though, I think.  As to the other antemeridian function, that can be any time of the day for me! :)

John
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: John P on January 29, 2019, 09:09:47 PM
My wife and I went to a concert (Boston Celtic Music Festival) at a place in Cambridge last week, and we noticed that the bathrooms were a pair of single-seaters, and one had the sign "Anyone" on the door and the other said "Everyone".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Passim
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 29, 2019, 11:40:29 PM
Bluetrain: Regulation and forest management are not what you might expect in many foreign countries. The Tarahumara are losing their heritage and lifestyle to wholesale destruction of once pristine forest for toilet paper. Some of the most bio-diverse territory on the planet. It is being destroyed, and left destroyed, not managed in anyway, exploited, like huge stacks of buffalo kill and extinction. A magnificent wilderness forest with ancient trees to make toilet paper in Los Mochis! Miles and miles of balded mountain tops, like one big bad haircut on a beautiful woman. 
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 30, 2019, 12:01:02 AM
morning routine is out of bed , crap, shower , breakfast.

What splendid regularity, ric!  Whilst breakfast is a similar regular routine for me the other two are not.  I shower in the evening mostly to get the day's sweat and dirt off before I go to bed.  I'm not a believer in taking whatever you have exuded or accreted during the day into bed with you and cuddling it all night.  I'd rather be clean between the sheets!  I'm in a minority though, I think.  As to the other antemeridian function, that can be any time of the day for me! :)

John
I think veggies and training habits have gotten me consistent and regular to get "IT" out of the way in the morning.

When out camping, it is a blessing. Digging a latrine all for not, only to have to go to extremes out on the trail is drudgery and well,... read "Shit in the Woods." Doing these things at all hours in inclement weather is also uncomfortable. "Nothing but rocks, here." "Ack, did you smell...." Now, where, how to clean up, use that precious water, on and on.

SHOWER! Shower gets me awake, right before bed. Shower gets things started, but by morning I've been shedding skin and other functions for a while. I figure that there's no escaping it. I'd rather air out naked after a shower than stuff sheets and blankets around me like clothing. I generally shower, when its time to go out and function in society, or when I'm dirty and DF is considered. When I can, I use no blankets. I love being naked and starting a new day from the get go naked feels great, liberating. It's a summer thang.
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 30, 2019, 12:15:53 AM
Bluetrain: Regulation and forest management are not what you might expect in many foreign countries. The Tarahumara are losing their heritage and lifestyle to wholesale destruction of once pristine forest for toilet paper. Some of the most bio-diverse territory on the planet. It is being destroyed, and left destroyed, not managed in anyway, exploited, like huge stacks of buffalo kill and extinction. A magnificent wilderness forest with ancient trees to make toilet paper in Los Mochis! Miles and miles of balded mountain tops, like one big bad haircut on a beautiful woman.

You should see what coal mining has done where I'm from. There was logging, too, but the trees grow back, no matter what, with no management whatsoever. Did you know we were importing lumber into the colonies before the revolution? And it wasn't for toilet paper.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on January 30, 2019, 04:31:53 AM
It is an ecosystem, not just a bunch of trees. In those mountains, it means flooding, erosion, other species taking over, loss of livelihood. The whole place has to readjust to get back to being old growth.

When you blade off a piece of desert here, it takes about 400 years for it to recover. Down there, in that forest, this is comparable to a major forest fire devastation, only without the natural barriers and left overs that usually sustain the system. Thing is it isn't natural like a forest fire. It is much more bio-diverse than the forests back east. It is more complex. It hasn't had the diversity cut out of it and it has adapted to different conditions. Maybe you need to visit there and get educated, or take an ecology course and ask around. Three kinds of big cats, dozens of different kinds of trees in a single plot, interactions between species, then some outfit comes in and treats it like it just a bunch of trees that will grow back, but they don't care if they grow back. The succession is crippled and has to take place again. Miles and miles of clear cutting.
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on January 30, 2019, 06:07:04 PM
You should see what coal mining has done where I'm from. There was logging, too, but the trees grow back, no matter what, with no management whatsoever. Did you know we were importing lumber into the colonies before the revolution? And it wasn't for toilet paper.

It works both ways.   When American settlers moved west the great parries were all grass up to the Mississippi river.   Mostly that was because frequent range fires across the prairies burned until they came to the river.   Today its all forest out beyond Topika, more than 100 miles from the river. 

Despite that, Jbee is right.  The over use of paper for ass wipes is causing deforestation on a global scale.   Its also a lot less clean than a quick water wash if only we had convenient plumbing in most places. 

I would have to see data about importing lumber before the revolution.   Lumber export was a huge American industry right through the 19th century. 

As for strip mining, I have seen a reclaimed strip mine in Ohio where its now forests and camping. 


 
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on January 30, 2019, 07:45:43 PM
The lumber that was imported was wood that didn't grow here: mahogany. There was also mining before the revolution.

I'd say the so-called paperless office uses a lot of paper, too. Those who work in offices probably consume more paper that way than in the form of toilet tissue.

This is starting to sound like something out of Mad Magazine, which once (about 60 years ago) had an article about how the world would soon be full of used razor blades and other disposable products.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Peter S on March 01, 2019, 05:55:19 PM
In view of the group interest shown in toilet paper, I offer the following report assessing the latest threat to planet Earth:

Wiped out: America's love of luxury toilet paper is destroying Canadian forests
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/01/canada-boreal-forest-toilet-paper-us-climate-change-impact-report?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on March 02, 2019, 12:03:23 AM
I use the grade A, recycled. I minimize and economize by folding again and again (I have a septic system). I wash after with a cloth using little water. Septic maintenance, local environmental pollution, save a forest AND the stuff functions better than most others, strong, yet smooth/soft, efficient.

At airports or schools, I've noticed a slippery brand that is off white. It is loaded with chemicals of some kind that creates a rash and sting with use.

Yea, I heard about Mexico's pristine forests going and the Amazon, but didn't know about Canada. When did we start using so much more toilet paper, I wonder?
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on March 02, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
You realize we use wood for a lot more things than toilet paper, don't you? And speaking of forests in Kansas, I've made four bus trips to the Midwest, plus another trip to the prairie in Minnesota (the part with no lakes) and didn't see any forests in any of those places. Likewise, I've been to Denver and didn't see any forests to the east of there. However, there are woods on the north rim of the Grand Canyon, although nothing like the woods on the East Coast. There have been no forests in the Midwest because it doesn't rain enough. There were grass fires, though, to be sure. Around here where I live, if you don't mow your lawn for a couple of years, there will be trees growing there before you know it. Hardwood trees are the climax species here. In the Midwest, it's grass. The original grasslands are just about all gone now.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: MartinM on March 03, 2019, 08:43:09 AM

At airports or schools, I've noticed a slippery brand that is off white. It is loaded with chemicals of some kind that creates a rash and sting with use.
.....
Jbee
That sounds like the toilet paper from hell - Izal medicated. It used to be common in schools and public toilets years ago in the UK, but thankfully I havenít come across it for years. It appears designed to spread the excrement rather than remove it while being as uncomfortable as possible. The assumption was that it was designed to discourage its use, and thus save money. In view of the comments about overuse of toilet paper in the US, that would suggest why there is a market for it there in public facilities like airports.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on March 03, 2019, 11:39:22 AM
If that's something they do to save money, they started at the wrong end of the scale of expenses.

Deforestation is a problem in some places but it had already happened two thousand years ago in some places. Even wild elephants contribute to deforestation. In some places, like where I live, there is even more woodland than there was a hundred years ago, chiefly because the use of land for agriculture and grazing has declined here. Imagine the amount of wood required to feed fireplaces and wood-burning stoves.
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: Bob Knows on March 03, 2019, 02:48:54 PM
We could all install a bidet, or toilet with a wash function, in our toilet rooms and stop using paper. I much prefer the washed and clean option myself.   But most people aren't likely to do that any time soon. 
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: jbeegoode on March 03, 2019, 07:14:09 PM
I'm on my way out to cut firewood naked in the sun. It's for the sauna for a group. Groups save the wood of separate saunas and is more fun and give extra interpersonal spiritual benefits. The wood is old wood, scrap from construction and worthless pallets. Then, the smoke will help pollute the air. We're being prudent, saving trees, and landfills. Now, then the air...seems that sometimes, ya can't win fer lossin'. ::)
Jbee
Title: Re: Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US
Post by: BlueTrain on March 03, 2019, 09:59:02 PM
For a while when I was still in high school (when I began hiking naked), I lived in a log house with no indoor plumbing and no telephone. Electricity was put in just a few years before we moved there. For heat in the winter, there was a coal-burning stove (a "Warm Morning" brand) in one room and a wood-burning stove in the kitchen. The place was on several acres and believe me, in that part of the country you would not run out of wood. But we did buy toilet paper at the store.

Deforestation is also land clearing. The original pioneers (who built the house, never called a cabin) had to clear land before they could grow anything. I understand that a lot of trees were just cut down and burned to make space to grow things. There was a lot of waste but there were no alternatives at the time. In fact, the very same thing is still done when land is cleared around here for a housing project. But it sure wasn't very good land for farming there, even though some people still did, some even using horses. Judging from the timbers in the house, there were big trees cut for building purposes.

The past is not yet past.