Free Range Naturism

Naturism => General Naturism Discussion => Topic started by: jbeegoode on May 11, 2019, 11:07:58 PM

Title: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on May 11, 2019, 11:07:58 PM
I got this wrapped up in a nutshell by "The Truth About Cancer." It contains info about sunscreen use and also a recipe for an organic sunscreen, perhaps usable by certain ghostly white Brits heading to Croatia for a sunny vacation and beach trip.

Is Sunscreen Causing More Harm than Good? Latest Study Finds Chemicals in Bloodstream

By Ty Bollinger
May 10, 2019
The skin is the largest organ in your body. But when you lather up with sunscreen, the chemicals are actually being absorbed into your bloodstream.

According to a new pilot study conducted by the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, chemicals from sunscreen enter the bloodstream in substantial amounts after just one day of use. The study, which has just been published, evaluated the blood of 24 test subjects, each of whom used sunscreen on 75% of their bodies.

They then evaluated four chemicals commonly found in sunscreen products:

    Avobenzone
    Oxybenzone
    Ecamsule
    Octocrylene

After just one day of use, the researchers found that the levels of these chemicals in the blood was higher than the FDA safety threshold. Patients using sprays, creams, and lotions all demonstrated the same results.

Because the blood levels exceed the FDA threshold, these products will need to undergo vigorous safety testing. And although consumers have been using these products for decades, proper safety studies are virtually non-existent.
Is Sun Exposure the Real Cause of Skin Cancer?

May is Skin Cancer Awareness Month, and the timing of this information is fortuitous. Those who have been following our work are already equipped with knowledge about the harm that traditional sunblock can cause, but for those of you who are unfamiliar, let’s recap.

You’ve probably heard a million times that the sun causes cancer, and that it’s important to lather up before you go outside. But not only does sunscreen introduce harmful chemicals into your bloodstream, it also blocks the production of vitamin D. Vitamin D is crucial for maintaining good health, and the sun is one of the few natural ways to get it.

Skin cancer is the most common type of cancer in the United States, with nearly five million people treated annually. Below are the 3 most common types of skin cancer.
3 Most Common Types of Skin Cancer

#1. Basal cell carcinomas comprise 80% of all skin cancers. Basal cancers used to show up only in middle-aged groups but are increasingly present in younger people. These cancers grow slowly and rarely spread to other parts of the body.

#2. Squamous cell carcinomas are more likely to grow into deeper layers of the skin and spread to other parts of the body, although this is still rare. Interestingly, squamous cell cancers exist more frequently in darker skinned individuals in areas hidden from the sun, such as on the bottoms of their feet or palms of their hands.

#3. Melanoma accounts for less than 2% of all cases of skin cancer but is more likely to grow and spread if left untreated, making it more deadly. According to skincancer.org, getting more than five sunburns increases your odds of getting melanoma by 80%.

One study, published in 2004, found that indoor workers are more likely to develop melanoma than outdoor workers. The author concluded that “chronic sunlight exposure can have a protective effect” against skin cancer. In fact, a 2014 article published in the Journal of Internal Medicine found that avoiding sun exposure is a risk factor for all-cause mortality.

Another study, published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, found that exposure to sunlight – and the subsequent vitamin D synthesis – may actually help to prevent certain cancers. According to the study:

    …sunlight may reduce the risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL) and may be associated with increased survival rates in patients with early-stage melanoma. In a large population-based case–control study of more than 3700 patients with incident lymphoma and nearly 3200 control subjects in Sweden and Denmark, Smedby et al. reported a 20% to 40% reduction in the risk of this cancer. The reduction in risk was dose-related with increasing indices of prior sun exposure.”

The authors summarized that “solar radiation may have a beneficial influence in both the incidence and outcome of cancer.” So, if vitamin D is so important, and exposure to sunlight can be healthy (in the right doses), what does sunscreen accomplish?
The Real Damage Caused by Commercial Sunscreen

Besides blocking the important synthesis of vitamin D, it may be disrupting our hormones, especially once it’s been introduced into the bloodstream. We actually published a video on this very topic years ago. Dr. Elizabeth Plourde, an expert on the dangers of commercial sunscreen use, explained the way that these harmful chemicals are absorbed through the skin and introduced into the bloodstream – and just how badly this can affect humans.

The chemicals in sunscreen can act as an estrogen, or an anti-testosterone, which can have severe effects on our health. This is especially important for women who are pregnant, because this hormone disruption can drastically and negatively impact the development of unborn children.

She explained that the skin is the largest organ in our bodies, and one of the most absorbent. Whatever we put onto our skin can end up directly in our bloodstream. In fact, Dr. Plourde says that the chemicals in sunscreen can be detected in the blood within 5 minutes of applying it and in the liver, kidney, spleen, testicles and brain within mere hours.
How to Defend Against Skin Cancer Naturally (+ How to Make Your Own Sunscreen!)

Nevertheless, too much sun exposure can lead to many forms of skin cancer, especially when it results in a burn. But there are ways to protect yourself from potentially harmful radiation naturally, without the use of harsh chemicals found in most sun care products.

#1. Limit your exposure. We should ideally be getting about 10,000 to 20,000 IU of vitamin D each day. Start out with 15-20 minutes of sunbathing at least 3 times a week for optimal vitamin D production. For those with darker skin, try 25-40 minutes.

#2. Use clothing to protect yourself. For those who will be in the sunlight for an inordinate amount of time, consider using a hat, long sleeves, and pants to protect your skin instead of sunblock.

#3. Utilize nature’s medicine chest. There are many plants and herbs provided in creation that can help improve our body’s natural defenses. Phenolic compounds like flavonols, lignins, stilbenes, and phenolic acids can help protect you against skin cancer. There are other compounds that can protect against melanoma which can be found in green tea, holy basil, cruciferous vegetables, coffee, and a host of other fruits and veggies.

If you live in an area with limited sunlight, be sure to supplement your vitamin D levels. You can use a trusted, all-natural vitamin D3 supplement or consume foods like mushrooms, wild-caught fish, and fermented dairy products to increase your levels of vitamin D.

Even non-chemical sunscreens which contain minerals may have been mixed with chemicals, and products labeled as “hypoallergenic” contain hazardous ingredients. Instead, prepare your own natural sunscreen lotion made with extracts that contain a natural SPF.

DIY Sunscreen Recipe:
 Ingredients

    ¼ cup avocado or olive oil
    ¼ cup coconut oil
    ¼ cup beeswax or shea butter
    2 tbsp vitamin E
    2 tbsp zinc oxide
    5-10 drops of your favorite (non-citrus) essential oil fragrance if desired

Instructions

    Combine ingredients into a pot and place over low heat.
    Stir ingredients until well combined and distribute into small mason jars for storage.
    Store in a cool and dry place until ready for use.

Notes

Be sure to use organic ingredients!

Skin cancer is the most common of all cancers. You can protect yourself naturally without infusing your body with harmful chemicals contained in commercial sunscreens. By utilizing the bounty of creation, like vitamin D, antioxidants, and phenolic compounds, you reap the benefits of the sun while helping your body defend against cancer.
Full credit:
https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/is-sunscreen-bad-for-you/?utm_campaign=weekly-digest&utm_medium=email&utm_source=all-actives&utm_content=is-sunscreen-bad-for-you&mpweb=144-7908192-442413327
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on May 11, 2019, 11:15:55 PM
If this stuff gets into the blood through the skin so effectively, then think what might come out of the skin in a sauna, exercise, or other perspiration process. Its natural and a detox augmented to sauna. Just sayin'. I just published a Russian sauna article in the "All things Sauna" thread.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: nuduke on May 12, 2019, 03:18:37 PM

Oh dear, another article making it harder for us to make a decision in life.  I can see that the complex cocktail of ingredients in sunscreen can get absorbed by the skin and concentrated by the tissues.  Equally I can believe in the harmful effect of sun on skin.  The article has one big flaw I think.  It avocates natural herbal remedies.  OK that's fine but what if there are toxins and harmful chemicals in the herbs that similarly get into the skin.  In ancient times many herbal remedies were found to be effective.  In our era we have discovered that that is because they contain drugs that are toxic and active!  So why should everything herbal be so benign.  Equal care with herbals as with manufactured sunscreen I would advocate.

I think moderation is the answer.  Don't cook in the sun for too long at a time.  Take sun in smaller doses especially for the fair skinned.

However, think of the number of people that live a life in the sun vs the relatively lower incidence of skin cancer.  Sun maybe is not too dangerous?

John
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on May 12, 2019, 10:06:18 PM
We don't all have the same skin. I am of Northern European origin and was born with red hair. So was my wife. You might say I'm predisposed to skin cancer and in fact, I have been treated for it. No big deal. As far as I know, I am the first one who managed to develop it, yet the rest are all dead just the same. I'm 72 now and I expect I have another ten good years, don't know how many not so good years.

The first thing the doctor asked (after asking why I waited so long to see him) was if I had any serious sunburns before I was 20 and I had. Remember, that was over 50 years ago. There were few suntan products available then as far as I know and I don't think any were described as sunblock. These days, however, I am never out in the sun without clothing to bother with sunblock or any lotion. The last two trips we took to the beach, I never set foot on the beach itself. And even though I have posted about nude hiking here and elsewhere, nearly every place I've hiked has been mostly in the shade. The Appalachian Trail is even described as a green tunnel, at least for half the year. But I think my hiking days away from home are just about over.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on May 12, 2019, 11:41:34 PM
 
Yes, Nuduke the smear can also add over confidence to the danger. It is best to use nothing but modernization in my opinion, too. I wouldn't trust a sunblock over my own senses and covering up when it is time. But I've been practicing and even my own senses have in the past caused me too much sun. On the other hand, I don't know how effective that this mix is and how far that I can trust it to protect me. The oils go through the body and excrete out of the skin often. Then are not poisons. The sweat takes care of the balance and they are necessary to protect the skins balance. Could be too much of a good thing.

Using anything that might clog my pores I think should be a negative.

The fact that I eat alot of the ingredients, and use them for other topical purposes with best affect, tells me that I can have confidence in the recipe not to poison me. These are foods that people have eaten for centuries, but always organic. I use coconut oil for food, drink, sex, foot skin health and it used to be an ingredient to deepen a tan.

Olive oil, used for millennia. Zinc, is a vitamin supplement and too much gets me feeling some sick, an allergic thing, I suppose.

 ¼ cup avocado or olive oil
    ¼ cup coconut oil
    ¼ cup beeswax or shea butter
    2 tbsp vitamin E
    2 tbsp zinc oxide
    5-10 drops of your favorite (non-citrus) essential oil fragrance if desired
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: HillwalkerDundee on May 18, 2019, 10:06:48 AM
As you say, another thing to think about. I do like the idea of making my own. I think i am fortunate in that I dont lie in the sun. I start at about 7:30am when the sun is weak and am usually off the hills by 11:30am whilst the sun is yet to get into its stride. Living in Scotland means that at least half the days in the year will be overcast.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on May 18, 2019, 11:11:34 AM
It probably would work a little better with two or three drops of snake oil, if you can find any.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on May 18, 2019, 02:45:22 PM
It probably would work a little better with two or three drops of snake oil, if you can find any.

We see TV ads for "Blue Emu oil."   I wonder if that would work as good as snake oil?   I haven't figured out from their TV ads if the Emus they squeeze for oil are blue, or the oil they squeeze out of Emus is blue. 

I've never seen a blue Emu.  I wonder if we could get the same benefit from squeezing a brown Emu for its oil?   

Bob
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on May 20, 2019, 11:16:11 PM
From the guys who make Blue coral wax? I looked. It doesn't say where the name comes from. Seems to be just another emu's fat for pain. Not one bit of study on it, but available at Walgreens!

DF uses arnica on me. It works very well. She says that it is made from marigolds, but the net says that it is some exotic flower out of Siberia. No proof that it works for pain, but when she rubs the cream in, it works remarkably effectively.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: HillwalkerDundee on May 24, 2019, 01:23:35 PM
Using the recipes onhere, we made our first batch of sun tan "cream". It was very oily / greasy because of the shea butter and oil but it smelt wonderful and seemed very comfortable o wear and easy to put on. I have not had any reactions and certainly more happy with this than chemicals. I didnt seem to be bothered by midges either, an unexpected bonus.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Peter S on May 24, 2019, 02:05:34 PM
Sounds like the midges eithervslid off or were busy chowing down on the cream instead of you, Gary  ;)
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Davie on May 24, 2019, 02:24:41 PM
I'm sure there are pros and cons about sun cream. I do however ask if the dangers outlined above been subject to peer review by academics after proper scientific research?

Davie  8),

Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on May 24, 2019, 04:27:23 PM
There have been studies with dramatic results. Everything is refutable. The Peer review these days is burdened by funding. The money is is the sunscreen products. The peer review most likely would be biased. Doctors are being given their info from pill pushers and sunscreen producers. The studies are out there for peer review. That's how they are found. More research could cinch it down better. Same old story. Billions of dollars riding on this.

There is enough evidence to convince me that chemicals deemed too nasty in certain amounts found in just 25 people in amounts way too nasty for a body is alarming enough to walk away from them. If I were to use a sunscreen, I'd try an organic vegetable that can be taken orally in huge amounts. We have only one test subject here, Ty and his family and several doctors, etc. Does it work? How well does it work? He didn't mention any studies. Just anecdotal and common sense.

Snake oil usually comes with a price and is a placebo. This isn't funded by someone getting wealthy, nobody gets rich.It is hard to placebo out a sunburn. It might make someone over confident. All of them are oily.Knowing these substances, they will be oily for awhile depending how liberal the application and it does soak into the skin.

I wonder if the organic homemade stuff is better bang for your buck. You can eat what you don't use. A bucket of shay butter will go a very long ways. DF used a small tub for her skin most nights for like a year. She got a good price in te African section of the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show. Half of an avocado ain't much. Coconut oil is cheap and it has helped heal my skin on my foot. Labor would be like 10 minutes to make and application a minute or two and feel very good.

These ingredients are used for skin care products with chemicals to make the product more attractive.

To see if it works, the best test is individual. The stuff contains all things that bodies eat and process well orally. They are nutritional. They are ancient skin care products used for centuries by people, maybe not for sunblock, but skin health. If it doesn't block sun, you get nice smooth skin, anyway. :D I'd try the concoction before I'd trust peer review. I don't need peer review to know that an organic apple is good for me. It wipes off on my forearm to no harm, just some stick. People have been dealing with them for centuries and God didn't put a warning label on it.

This recipe probably doesn't preserve on shelves as long as chemicals.

I'd be curious to know if the recipe comes out of somebodies moma's bundle of tricks, or it a new idea. Seems that sunscreen is a new idea, like wearing clothing all the time in the tropics.
Jbee

Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Peter S on May 24, 2019, 11:34:19 PM
Sunscreen, or the emphasis on it, is a relatively new idea because the earth’s atmosphere is no longer doing the job it used to do so well of keeping the more harmful radiations out. Sadly, not all the things grandma knew and could teach us have the same relevance in a world of pollutants and plastics.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on May 25, 2019, 01:52:05 AM
Perhaps people wear fewer clothes than they used to. When I was little, I never saw a grown man in person wearing shorts. On the other hand, I knew a few men who wore the same long-sleeved work shirts and matching pants (of which they had about three sets, and a dress-up suit for Sunday) all year long, with the lightest of jackets for cold and snowy days in the winter and never gloves.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: nuduke on May 28, 2019, 09:29:11 PM

I get a reaction to sun sometimes, causing urticaria, also to some suncreams, and last week I had a reaction to deet-containing insect repellant.
It's really hard to ascribe simple causes or develop simple solutions to what can often be due to complex reasons.    Whilst I definitely don't decry the application of the scientific method to ascertain if something is beneficial or harmful, equally I find the "50 million robins can't be wrong" adage useful in assessing things like this:  If millions are using something without ill effect and getting benefit then broadly speaking it must be ok!  I am also aware that 50 million robins might raise an argument to that!
John
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on May 29, 2019, 10:02:04 AM
the only problem with the 50 million robins is they could all be using something without ill effects that theyve noticed,   or the ill effects only become apparent several years on.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: nuduke on May 29, 2019, 11:53:09 AM

This is indeed the flaw in the robins argument, Ric!
John
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on May 29, 2019, 01:07:17 PM
I think I may have mentioned before that none of my relatives ever died of cancer (skin or otherwise) but they're all dead, just the same. One of my aunts was a real sun worshiper, really the only one in the family. She would get positively brown in the summer. Her husband, who never wore anything but long sleeve shirts and long pants, developed a spot of skin cancer. Interestingly enough, my aunt was quite close to another member of the family who was Hispanic and the only one who addressed her by her real name, which was Iris, instead of her nickname.

All of my skin problems, such as they have been, undoubtedly developed because of sunburns I received as a child. It is curious, however, that the problems only developed on my face, rather than my back and shoulders. These days, however, I mostly stay out of the sun, even when I've hiked nude. All of my outings are in the deep, dark woods, which I prefer to think of instead as cool and shady. They aren't that cool, though, and they're damp, too.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: nuduke on June 02, 2019, 06:52:38 PM

Woodland is best!  Warm when its warm and less breezy when it's chilly.  Sunny in places, shady in others.  For me, woodland 'talks' to you more than perhaps any other landscape.  Woods are mysterious and welcoming, interesting and - they hide you too to enjoy all that lovely greenness in luxurious isolation!  And when there's water - stream or pool, lake or mere - they are the best.
John
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on June 02, 2019, 09:32:01 PM
The woods I regularly visit give me the feeling of being in the jungle and sometimes birds give it that jungle sound effect, too. Only the lawn mowers spoil the mood. I've always especially enjoyed the old Jungle Jim (Johnny Weissmuller) movies in which he never sweats, never walks in the mud--except for quicksand--and never seems to get thirsty. My jungle is muddy and 90 degrees in the shade.

It has birds and animals, though. Today I saw an owl, an exceptional sighting. Plenty of mud still but no quicksand.

It's all about escapism.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 03, 2019, 08:14:28 PM
I'm partial to woods. They're user friendly. They tend to be less biodiverse, though. I figure that you are referring to deciduous places, like back east. They forests out here are often much different. Often the pine forests can get so same that it is easy to get lost in them. Still, there is always a nugget of interests here and there, particularly when I only visit them on occasion. The forests here are generally up in mountains, where magnificent vistas pop out and the up and down can get challenging. The elevation changes the eco-makeup quite a bit.

I was looking at a spot in Upstate New York on the Young Naturist site a couple of days ago. A nice broad waterway, shade, rocks, bedrock.

The jungles that I visited in in South America were more like back-east forests, with thick growth along watercourses, often complete with water. It can get pretty hot and buggy in those woods. Still, the tradition was naked natives. They were much like the Virginia woods around Falls Church and the James River that I grew up in.

I remember sleeping in a bag by a campfire in Michigan. No critter worries.

Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on June 03, 2019, 08:40:24 PM
I live about eight miles from Falls Church. It is definitely hot, buggy and damp, going on wet, in these woods. Chances are, however, that 150 years ago, there would be a lot more open, cleared land used for agriculture.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 03, 2019, 09:29:46 PM
Our Falls Church subdivision was new. There were pretty pristine creeks behind the homes. It was comfortable temps for kids dressed in just shorts. Sometimes we would strip off, but felt like we were being naughty. There were salamanders, turtles, tortoises, frogs, toads, a few small fish, clean water, rocks, mud, dirt, and more. It was across from McLean High School and over the hill. No beltway.

On Ft. Eustis, I could ride my bike everywhere. I'd play in the James River, in the reeds, where the water lapped up. There were marshes, and swamps. There were fields. On the military base, it was safe and lots of other kids. We smoked "boy scout cigarettes, dug out forts and covered them. We'd play war games in the woods and climb trees. We'd wear just short pants and white underwear all summer.

Teenagers in Battle Creek Michigan, there were woods and undeveloped properties around the subdivision. There were lakes and we had a Christmas tree farm out in the country to spend weekends, drinking beer, cheap wine and smoking everything. I remember getting nude in the country. Once I found myself stuck on the back bumper of a VW bug naked, riding through the country roads. I remember purposely spending entire summers barefoot. I remember being naked and finding out that I was the only one of us that wasn't allergic to poison ivy, when camping. There was a creek and toad jabbing. There were farms to wander and we could yell as loud as we pleased, all night.
Jbee

Those woods were wonderful, a long time ago, and still very dear to me.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on June 03, 2019, 11:25:47 PM
Where I grew up "in town" there was a pond about three blocks away with a narrow patch of woods, bushes mostly, on one side. It was used by a local sporting goods store for boat demonstrations. A few kids, none of whom I knew, skinny-dipped, but neither me or any of my friends would. That is, we would get in that water for anything. After my mother died (1959), we moved outside of town and there was another larger patch of woods, hardly a forest and no big trees, that was really good for roaming around in. Then, when I was in high school, we moved to the country. That's where the log house, no inside toilet, etc., was, which didn't bother me in the least. I had no expectation of anything. Anyway, there were lots and lots of woods there and that's where I really started nude hiking. I'm sure I've mentioned that before. In contrast to where I live now, there was virtually no wildlife around there, except for birds and snakes.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 03, 2019, 11:30:01 PM
Nuduke started this talk of forests and their best-ness. We have been responding, that forests are great places.

Japanese study, etc. tells us of the researched health benifits. I dunno, but it makes sense to me, at my first read.
"For generations, mankind has struggled to find a cure for cancer. We’ve spent billions on research and development as thousands of therapies have been used to treat different forms of the disease.

"Once the pharmaceutical industry got involved, those therapies quickly narrowed to expensive drugs and harmful treatments that have become the standard of care in Western medicine.

In Japan, they have a different approach that’s been scientifically proven to increase the body’s anti-cancer ability: forest bathing.

Did you know that by 2050, nearly 2/3 of the world’s population is projected to live in urban centers? Or that the EPA estimates that the average American spends 87% of their time indoors, and another 6% in their vehicles?1,2

We’re becoming an increasingly sedentary culture, and there are many benefits to exercise and time spent outside. But as it turns out, time in nature is substantially more beneficial than outdoor time in the city.
What is Forest Bathing?

Forest bathing, or shinrinyoku as it’s known in Japan, has been around for thousands of years.

Contrary to what you may think, forest bathing has nothing to do with water. In essence, forest bathing is a short, leisurely trip to the forest used for relaxation and recreation. It is NOT strenuous exercise like jogging, climbing, or hiking. It’s been used for centuries to help with mood, stress, and energy.

The aromatic benefits alone have been recognized by the Forest Agency of Japan for nearly 40 years now, and researchers using the Profile of Mood States test successfully showed that forest bathing significantly decreased anxiety, depression, and anger.3

And while these positive effects are great, it may offer a significantly more substantial benefit: Forest bathing has been shown to boost the immune system and prevent cancer. You read that correctly. Several published studies have found that forest bathing trips – in addition to improving mood and energy, decreasing stress and anxiety, fighting inflammation, regulating blood sugar, and reducing hypertension – may have a preventative effect on cancer generation and development.
Natural Killer Cells, Cancer, and the Immune System

In order to explain how this works, we’ll first need to talk about natural killer cells. The immune system is our best defense against disease and plays an important role in combating cancer. But tumor cells have a unique ability to escape immune surveillance by mutating and disguising themselves as other cells. That’s where natural killer cells come in.

Natural killer (NK) cells are white blood cells found in our lymphatic system. These cells are specifically designed to hunt cancerous cells and destroy them, hence the name “natural killer”. When it comes to the immune system, these cells are our first and best defense against cancer. Healthy NK cells are absolutely vital in your body’s battle with disease.4

What’s especially interesting is that NK cells identify and destroy diseased or damaged cells without any conditioning or prior exposure. Unlike the rest of the immune system, which learns through exposure to new bacteria or viruses, NK cells can identify cancerous cells immediately. This means that the more NK cells we have working in our bodies, the better protected we are from chronic diseases like cancer.5

And this is where forest bathing comes in. Many studies over the past 15 years have examined the effects of forest bathing on immune function, all concluding that the result is an increase in both the number of NK cells and their activity level.

This means that time in nature equips the immune system with more of these “cancer assassins” AND keeps these cells functioning at the highest levels.3,5-8

This is HUGE news.

The absolute best way to treat and beat cancer is to stop it from developing in the first place. And it turns out that keeping our immune system strong may be as simple as getting out into nature. The researchers found that the benefits to the immune system and NK cells only occurred with forest bathing trips – not with trips in an urban setting. They also evaluated the impact on men and women in two separate studies.

Both groups experienced increased NK activity for more than 7 days after a trip. For women, the effects could last up to 30 days.3,6,8
5 Additional Forest Bathing Benefits

In addition to preventing cancer, forest bathing has been shown to have many other benefits. Here are our top 5 benefits of forest bathing.
1| Improving Mood and Energy

A 2007 study published in Public Health found that forest bathing can be extremely effective in managing acute emotions. In the study of nearly 500 participants, hostility and depression were significantly reduced after forest bathing compared to the control groups. Additionally, forest bathing can increase energy and vigor.9

Dr. Qing Li, considered one of the foremost authorities on forest bathing and its medicinal properties, authored a study in 2016 showing that people who spend regular time in the forest have more energy throughout the day and get better quality sleep at night. Forest bathing also helps to regulate dopamine levels, which increase focus and productivity.10
2| Lowering Stress and Anxiety

Forest bathing has long been considered beneficial for mental health, and several studies utilizing the Profile of Mood States or similar tests have confirmed this. One of the ways in which this happens is a reduction in cortisol. Dr. Li and other researchers have consistently demonstrated a correlation between forest bathing and cortisol regulation.3,9,11

Cortisol, like adrenaline, is an important hormone that is released in high amounts when we are in fight or flight” mode, but also helps with several basic functions. Cortisol helps keep us alert, manages metabolic processes, helps with memory, reduces inflammation, and balances blood pressure.12

However, there is a direct and proven correlation between chronically high cortisol levels and cancer. Emotional stress is a major contributing factor to the six leading causes of death in the United States: cancer, coronary heart disease, accidental injuries, respiratory disorders, cirrhosis of the liver, and suicide.

As it turns out, a simple walk through the trees may be all it takes to reduce stress.11-13
3| Reducing Inflammation

Inflammation is the body’s natural stress response to injury, but when inflammation persists, it can be extremely harmful. Chronic inflammation can result from disease, injury, or an unhealthy lifestyle. Doctors and scientists agree that chronic inflammation is likely at the root of most chronic disease.14

The D-limonene in forest air has been shown to reduce lung inflammation. Studies have shown that those with asthma and Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) have shown symptom improvement after forest bathing. This is because oxygen intake is increased, and inflammation is lessened.

A 2016 study confirmed this, finding decreased levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines and stress hormones in those who spent time forest bathing.15
4| Regulating Blood Sugar

Forest bathing can also help reduce blood glucose levels, which is extremely important. High blood sugar and diabetes are both risk factors for heart disease and cancer – the leading causes of death in the U.S.6-7,14,16

Cancer cells feed on glucose, a byproduct of refined sugars and carbs. The best environment you can create for cancer cells is one with elevated blood sugar. In addition to diabetes and heart disease, keeping healthy blood glucose levels can increase metabolism, provide you with more energy, and help fight off chronic disease.

Because forest bathing has an effect on hormone secretion, it’s able to help our bodies regulate glucose. The importance of a healthy diet is paramount, but time in nature can assist in regulating our glucose production.16
5| Combating Hypertension

A 2017 study published in BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine found overwhelming evidence that forest bathing can help reduce both systolic blood pressure and diastolic blood pressure. Systolic blood pressure is the pressure in your vessels when your heart beats. Diastolic blood pressure is the vascular pressure when your heart rests. Both numbers are important, though systolic pressure is considered a stronger risk factor for heart disease.17

20 trials involving over 700 participants all reached the same conclusion: forest bathing can significantly reduce blood pressure. There is a clear connection between heart disease and cancer, and risk factors include high blood pressure, obesity, and an inactive lifestyle.17

In the U.S., over 600,000 people die every year from heart disease; that’s about 1 in 4 deaths annually. Hypertension is one of the leading risk factors for heart disease and other causes of mortality, but you can lower your risk for these diseases just by taking a leisurely stroll through the woods.17,18

There are many, many ways to help prevent disease and illness; diet and exercise are chief among them.

But the science is in: forest bathing is an extremely effective way to protect your health.

Not only can you improve your mental and physical health, you can actually stop cancer in its tracks. More importantly, forest bathing is dose-dependent. The more time you spend in nature, the greater its impact on your health. So take some time away from your phone or computer, throw some shoes on, and get outside!"
https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/forest-bathing-benefits-cancer/?utm_campaign=eastern-medicine&utm_medium=email&utm_source=all-actives-ttac&utm_content=forest-bathing-benefits-cancer&mpweb=144-8000886-442413327

Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on June 04, 2019, 07:26:31 PM
3 screens worth jb and i read all of it :)
sounds like our woods in southern uk are more open and the trees probably smaller . here in central somerset the woods tend to be on the limestone ridges typically 2-300 ft above sea level with little surface water, but soils have a high clay content so can be wet and muddy for long periods,  we get a wide variety of birds and butterflies, a surprising number of damsel flies considering the lack of surface water, grey squirrels, rabbits and deer, throw in a few slow worms and thats about it.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 04, 2019, 08:06:11 PM
I didn't write all of that. I was very tired and in a hurry, when I lifted that off of a newsletter and pasted it in. Then I forgot to put in the, now installed quotes. I had read of that study before. It seemed appropriate. Anyway, quotes are there, now. Yep, an epic even for me! ;)

Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on June 05, 2019, 04:10:38 AM
Sun Screen wasn't a thing while I was growing up.   As a teen there were ads for "sun tan lotion" which supposedly helped you get a tan more quickly.   We just learned to be careful not to get too much sun. 
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on June 05, 2019, 09:50:58 AM
theres been a commercial running on british tv lately,   young daughter tells dad he should be wearing sunscreen,   he responds were in uk not abroad on holiday,   a dayglow sun on a bike then responds its still the same sun, implying dads a bit thick not to realise this.



my reaction was if i dont need sunscrean in uk , this ads telling me i wont need it on holiday.... i ought really report it to advertising standards , but i cant be bothered.

but it does show the intellectual level of the tv ad industry generally.

theres another long running one for spec savers opticians... old sheperd without glasses shearing his sheep... does the sheepdog as well
tag line "should have gone to spec savers" implying he couldnt tell the difference between a sheep and a dog,   
all it says to me is everyone involved in the add is a bit thick dont realise .... even a totally bind man could tell the difference by feel... be a tad difficult to shear a sheep by feel....   a lot of dog owners do clip their dogs thick winter coat in spring

in a typical hours tv were being fed 20 minutes of this garbage.... i tend to read novels in five minute chunks..... or if really deperate surf the net on the tablet whilst the tv ads are on.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on June 05, 2019, 10:49:37 AM
Try turning off the television. It may not be as good as forest bathing but it will help. I realize this is an extreme solution, so you may have to ease off a little at a time. I won't go so far as suggesting not getting on the internet, though. That would be really drastic, perhaps even fatal. That is, if you aren't on the internet, you don't exist.

I say that and don't actually watch television either but my wife sure does. She even leaves the television on when she's outside. Half of the programs are British, which are carried exclusively by a local station. Some are interesting but I can never quite understand the dialogue.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on June 06, 2019, 10:41:44 AM
first hurdle is prising the remote away from the mrs ;)

i rarely just sit to watch  television whilst its daylight,  its just on when ive come in to have a cup of tea, or whatever.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on June 06, 2019, 02:20:58 PM
first hurdle is prising the remote away from the mrs ;)

My wife and I have separate TVs, with headphones, so we have our own remotes and don't have to fight over what channel to watch.   However, i tend to watch mostly at night also.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 06, 2019, 11:05:50 PM
Kinda like not reading a book together, Bob?

Haven't had a TV in decades. Had netflixs for a while. Do youtube. If I have a TV, I tend to sit and watch it.

We read the Sunday funnies together out loud. We change our voices taking on the different characters. That's fun together. Funny papers aren't always so funny anymore. Just something else to do naked. It is good to be foolish together.

We do books and mags, take classes, do a couple of groups, dance, make music, etc.. Better to interact, no matter what the activity. Better to use the body. Most TV melts down a mind eventually. All the TV news is so ridiculously biased, or just flat out government and corporate propaganda these days, it isn't worth watching the news except to get a better idea what the dullards are being taught to think. It is mostly Trump doing something outrageous, so as to make it seem normal so see the world as a hostile circus act, the true issues are glossed over, anyway. Now, another year about a horse race with no substance, totally ignoring the issues.

A naked walk in the woods is certainly more relevant and healthy. Even being one of those people who spend their time getting a perfect tan is more relevant than TV. Eating healthy food of all kinds is also a good substitute. REal living instead of watching a box tell you about things that you can't do anything about, just to sell you on something that you don't need.

I periodically watch TV over at my relative's homes. Each year, I sit down and see how much more outrageous it has become.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on June 07, 2019, 08:14:13 PM
Kinda like not reading a book together, Bob?

Haven't had a TV in decades. Had netflixs for a while. Do youtube. If I have a TV, I tend to sit and watch it.

2 people reading a book would be difficult.

My wife is an English professor.  She reads mostly literature and fiction books.  She watches movies and other fiction on TV. 

I have very limited use for fiction in print or video.  I tend to watch sports, documentaries, reality, TV about real men doing real work and achieving real goals.


Quote
We do books and mags, take classes, do a couple of groups, dance, make music, etc.. Better to interact, no matter what the activity. Better to use the body. Most TV melts down a mind eventually. All the TV news is so ridiculously biased, or just flat out government and corporate propaganda these days, it isn't worth watching the news except to get a better idea what the dullards are being taught to think. It is mostly Trump doing something outrageous, so as to make it seem normal so see the world as a hostile circus act, the true issues are glossed over, anyway. Now, another year about a horse race with no substance, totally ignoring the issues.

I ignore TV FAKE news.  Its all hate and propaganda.  Sometimes I check local news for the weather forecast.   There is much more accurate news info on Twitter than on corporate crap media.  For example, we learned today that the "Russian operative" who the Trump Campaign was accused of meeting by the Mueller investigation was actually a Ukrainian employee of Obama's State Department.  He was presenting a proposal for settling the ongoing Crimean conflict.  His meeting with Presidnet Elect Trump's staff was part of his work for the US State Department (and Mueller).   Mueller left all of that out of his "Investigation" report and used the meeting to allege that Trump had secret meetings with Russians.  None of that will ever be learned watching TV FAKE news.

Quote
A naked walk in the woods is certainly more relevant and healthy. Even being one of those people who spend their time getting a perfect tan is more relevant than TV. Eating healthy food of all kinds is also a good substitute. REal living instead of watching a box tell you about things that you can't do anything about, just to sell you on something that you don't need.

We are talking about moving to Arizona where evening walks would be more reasonable for more of the year.  We are again having cold and windy.  Brrrrr.   My wife has not been willing to share naked walks for years.  Sad.

Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 07, 2019, 10:21:08 PM
Under the full moon light. Just incredible. DF and I have a ritual when we're our under a full moon. We dance and try to sing "Dancing in the Moonlight." Always naked, if possible.

Naked desert walks and hikes are wonderful, like walking around inside a huge black and white TV. In the heat of summer, it is always wonderful to walk in the balmy evening after sundown. YOur convertible Mustang would be perfect for that. An old girlfriend had one. We'd just cruise. I got to drive.

Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: nuduke on June 08, 2019, 03:28:57 PM

So it's called 'Forest Bathing' is it?!
That's what I do.  And far less frequently than I'd like.
But given these apparent benefits, I ought to make more effort.
John
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 11, 2019, 03:35:45 AM
Yes, and report on the experience. Is the sun out in your woods yet?
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on June 11, 2019, 10:18:40 AM
its bxxxxy chilly and persisting down with rain in somerset .   forecast is pretty much the same all week.   might have to do some weeding in the poly tunnel later... after ive drained the stuff thats outside in pots. ive got a load of shrub cuttings in pots, the pots are stood in plastic boxes to make watering quick and easy... chuck an inch of water in every couple of days and they suck up what they want, yesterday some of the pots were floating.  gueass the easy answere would be to drill some overflow holes in the sides of the plastic boxes.   ive forgotten what the thread title was, am i rambling again
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Peter S on June 11, 2019, 06:58:12 PM
It was about sunscreen, but that is a distinctly superfluous commodity in the UK at the moment, so it’s only fair the topic drifts to non-sunscreen matters. I will be glad when we have cause to drag ourselves back on topic.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on June 12, 2019, 07:07:45 PM
Suns been out, we broke 100F for the first time yesterday, which was unusual, it's late. There are gambling pools about the time and date that we break that record. Kinda like when the ice breaks and flows in the spring.

Everything has dried up. Now, we wait for the monsoon rains.

Where you live, a warm poly tunnel would be a necessity for me, or I'd surely die.... 
Jbee :D
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: John P on June 12, 2019, 08:02:08 PM
Hey, you Brits had your summer, a few weeks ago. Don't be greedy.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: nuduke on June 15, 2019, 10:33:26 PM
Yes, and report on the experience. Is the sun out in your woods yet?
Jbee

No it very much is not!  We have had an unusually long run of rotten weather (rain, floods in parts, cold, grey etc.) for June.  Also I have had lots to do - sitting on trains a lot - and a knee injury (fell off a chair).  So the woods have been a distant memory lately.  Hopefully things will perk up next week and I will have time for a walk up there.  If so, and when, a report will be forthcoming.
John
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on June 16, 2019, 10:04:13 AM
this uk summer is nowt unusual,   anyone in the uk will be aware of the pilton/glastonbury pop festival,it gets pleanty of news coverage on tv and in the papers , its held about 10 miles from us,  theyre either treating the masses for heat stroke or showing pics of them wading through knee deep mud.

wimbledon tennis is another good example , pleanty of media coverage ,years ago  ive even seen a photo of ducks on a puddle on one of the courts .... there was some speculation that a press photographer had actually smuggled them in .

ive also heard it argued that watching raindrops falling on a covered cricket test match wicket is marginally more interesting than the play itself. :)
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 22, 2020, 08:42:18 PM
This reported on Democracy Now today:
"FDA Issues Warning About Sunscreen
Jan 22, 2020
H14 fda issues warning about sunscreen chemicals absorbed skin

The Food and Drug Administration has issued a warning about sunscreen, saying that seven chemicals can be absorbed into the bloodstream after only a single application of sunscreen. The levels of the chemicals absorbed exceed safety standards and have not been fully tested. The FDA is calling on the sunscreen industry to conduct further testing, but it is not telling people to stop using sunscreen."

Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on January 23, 2020, 01:46:02 AM
A lot of anecdotal reports from the carnivore diet people report that they no longer get sunburned after switching to an all meat diet.  No toxic chemicals needed.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 24, 2020, 01:23:26 AM
Please share your personal notes when the sky allows it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 24, 2020, 01:45:03 PM
A lot of what I read concerning health and diet is sometimes contradictory. But this is the first I've read about a carnivore diet.

I grew up eating bacon and eggs for breakfast, soup or sandwiches for lunch (came home for lunch in grade school), and all sorts of things for dinner, which was called supper. I know, supper is what you eat at midnight. Anyway, there was always plenty to eat and jokes abounded about not being able to eat everything on your plate. Everything was plain and well-cooked (or overcooked). There was nothing that could be described as "ethnic," meaning no spaghetti or anything Italian or Latin American. I don't think I ever ate pizza until after I left home. But it doesn't follow that I had a healthy diet. At any rate, I am 6'1" tall and about 175 pounds, which is about what I've been for the last 20 years, and it hasn't changed with retirement.

Just eat what your mother says to eat and everything will be fine.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on January 24, 2020, 06:19:17 PM
A lot of what I read concerning health and diet is sometimes contradictory. But this is the first I've read about a carnivore diet.

The ketogenic Diet has been around since the late 60s, also called the "Atkins" diet or the Dr. Atkins diet.  According to Wikipedia, "The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet that in medicine is used primarily to treat difficult-to-control epilepsy in children. The diet forces the body to burn fats rather than carbohydrates."  While the Keto diet has had some success over half a century it still allows some carbs which limit its effectiveness.  More recently it has been taken to a zero carbs, zero sugar, no plant products level called a Carnivore diet, or Carnivore Way of Eating (WOE).  They don't use "diet" because that sounds like a temporary weight loss thing and not a way of life.  People who eat carnivore have many health benefits. They lose or gain weight whichever is needed to be optimum healthy.  Type 2 diabetes vanishes. Irritable bowel syndrome vanishes, as does the colon cancer it causes, when it isn't trying to cope with all that undigestable plant fiber.  They report healthier teeth, plaque and tooth decay are sugar caused.  They report more healthy skin, and that they don't get sunburned.  There are also significant studies that correlate lower risk of heart disease deaths to high fat consumption. Long time carnivore WOE people who have gotten body scans report NO artery blockage or fat deposits in liver and other organs, more healthy than the doctor administering the scans. 

Resistance to infectious diseases is also said to be greatly increased, but there isn't much profit selling pills and "treatment" to healthy people so there isn't a lot of published studies. There are some Facebook and other social media groups. The big commercial media is all pushing vegetables and selling pills to cure what they cause.

I've been eating carnivore for about 5 months.   I've lost about 50 lbs.  My own gray hair has turned back to golden brown. 

Its an old saying "You are what you eat."  We are animals made mostly of animal protein and animal fat.  Makes sense to eat what you are.

Quote
I grew up eating bacon and eggs for breakfast, soup or sandwiches for lunch (came home for lunch in grade school), and all sorts of things for dinner, which was called supper.

We had a lot of eggs for breakfast and tomato soup for lunch until about 3rd grade.  After that our mother quit fixing breakfast or lunch for us.  We had a lot of sugar cereal or pancakes which we fixed for ourselves.  I became the "chubby" kid at school. 

Quote
I know, supper is what you eat at midnight. Anyway, there was always plenty to eat and jokes abounded about not being able to eat everything on your plate. Everything was plain and well-cooked (or overcooked). There was nothing that could be described as "ethnic," meaning no spaghetti or anything Italian or Latin American. I don't think I ever ate pizza until after I left home. But it doesn't follow that I had a healthy diet. At any rate, I am 6'1" tall and about 175 pounds, which is about what I've been for the last 20 years, and it hasn't changed with retirement.

I'm 5'10" and the last time I saw 175 was about in the 8th grade.  During high school I mostly didn't get breakfast or lunch and had to walk 4 miles home from school because I didn't have bus fare, then mother gave us some small amount of crap for dinner.  On holidays we got to visit our father and ate like ravenous dogs.  I was a very fit 190lbs or so when I graduated from high school.   But weight has been a lifelong struggle.  I know about the Keto diet because I tried it in the 1970s.  My son introduced me to the Carnivore WOE. 

Eating a typical American diet I either gain weight, or always feel starved.  The Carnivore WOE is the first time in my life where I'm not hungry and losing weight.  I'm happy eating what I am and feeling good.

Quote
Just eat what your mother says to eat and everything will be fine.

I'm sure your mother was a lot better at feeding her children than mine was.

Salutations.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 24, 2020, 06:55:14 PM
Nothing I ate until well after I got married ever made me fat. Most people would say I'm not fat now, maybe even skinny, although my own perspective is different. Some of that time I may not have been getting enough to eat, although no one either in my first family (my mother's family) or my second family (my stepmother's family) were fat and never were and there was nothing special in anything we ate. The trick may be getting born in the right family.

I may have mentioned this before but when attending my 50th high school reunion in 2014, I noticed that no one's basic body shape had changed, at least of those who I remember (not everyone in attendance were part of that class-they were the spouses of other graduating classes or were from somewhere else). And I swear, there were two or three that looked no different. They almost seemed to have aged scarcely at all. Most had, though. Everyone also had the same mannerisms, too. I wonder if any of them thought I had changed. There were also a surprising number who had already died and since then, two more have died that I had known fairly well in school and had seen at the reunion. I've since met with a few of them when I was in town a couple of years ago. 3

What one should eat, I believe, will also depend on what they do and where they live. That is, people doing physical labor, if there are any, will obviously need a higher calorie diet than someone like me, who sat at a desk for most of my working life. That probably seems obvious but those who live in colder climate should eat more, too, at least if they ever go outside. This all assumes you can get whatever you want to eat, which apparently most people do, although that's not the same as getting what you should eat.

People selling meat are out to make a profit, too, just as much as everyone else. You either make a profit or you have a loss.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 24, 2020, 08:49:57 PM
When I went veg, I dropped the carbs and had much of the same results that you are having. When I went primarily raw, it honed it. Since you are having such good results on the other side of the spectrum, it must have a lot to do with getting rid of the carbs and processed foods wrapped up in the American diet, what we dropped off in common.

The ketosis is quite a concept to me, but when I adjust my balance by a fast, much the same seems to happen. I get off of the burning of sugars, lose hunger, mood swings diminish and among other benefits, I smell better, skin is healthier, less oil.

The indigestible materials in veggies, will scrape away the stuff that builds up in the digestive tract, that which is a good thing over staying its welcome and getting rancid, and getting in the way. Meat stuffs me up, but you say that is good and efficient, while I'd call it uncomfortable and a difficulty when extracting it out of the shoot.

While eating just meat, do you eat wild meat, the animal's guts and organs, or make a point to stay away from antibiotic infested, unnaturally high fat feedlot beef and factory poultry and pork? I stuck with kosher for awhile.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 24, 2020, 09:20:27 PM
Supposedly beef (presumably cooked) is the easiest meat to digest. But then, what about other meats and fish (which some do not include with meat) and I guess, eggs, too.

One of the best discourses about diet, meaning simply what you eat, that I've read was written by Horace Kephart just about a hundred years ago. And that was before most of the genetically modified, fortified, highly refined food we have today, although canned foods were available and there was no real inspection of food like there is supposed to be today. I won't even begin to describe it but it is well-worth reading for a no nonsense, practical review of food and eating. On that point, food is one thing but how you eat it is important, too. We'd probably be shocked at how some of our ancestors ate. They don't seem to have worried about it as much as we do these days. Quantity came first.

Supposedly Eskimos and Indians of the far north eat the contents of the guts of caribou, which makes up for the lack of greens in their normal diet. But if nothing else, that probably illustrates the limitations of taking the diet of a relatively limited group of people and somehow trying to relate that to what you yourself eat, and assuming that what you eat now is wrong and that you should eat what someone else eats everyday.

Ah, I see the desert cart is coming around. Sorry, gotta go. 
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on January 25, 2020, 02:12:05 AM
The indigestible materials in veggies, will scrape away the stuff that builds up in the digestive tract, that which is a good thing over staying its welcome and getting rancid, and getting in the way. Meat stuffs me up, but you say that is good and efficient, while I'd call it uncomfortable and a difficulty when extracting it out of the shoot.

No, it doesn't work that way. You can't judge by eating meat for one or two days.  The indigestible vegetable fiber scrapes the sides of your intestines and causes Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) and eventually colon cancer.  When you stop eating all that undigestable plant fiber your colon stops being irritated. IBS and Colon cancer are prevented.  In a couple of weeks you dump all the stuck vegetable matter. There is no more "stuff" stuck in your intestines. For a while you get the "carnivore runs" that just flush everything out.  Carnivore eaters don't suffer from constipation.  When there isn't any plant fiber to soak up all the water, it takes time, sometimes months, for your colon to return to absorbing water out of food residue as it is designed to do.  Eventually you only need to poo every 5 to 7 days, more or less.  Carnivore food has very little waste to dispose of. There also is very little gas to pass.


Quote
While eating just meat, do you eat wild meat, the animal's guts and organs, or make a point to stay away from antibiotic infested, unnaturally high fat feedlot beef and factory poultry and pork? I stuck with kosher for awhile.  Jbee

Among carnivore WOE people there is some "sub cult" advocates who say they eat only grass fed beef, but the research shows that the only significant differences between grass fed and feed lot finished beef is that grass fed is more expensive, but feed lot finished has more fat and is more tender.  High fat is GOOD.  Carnivore WOE says to get like 40% or more of your calories from animal fat.  We need animal fat instead of carbs to supply our energy.  I eat beef, pork, and chicken, plus sausage, salami, etc., from my local supermarket, and look for sales.  I could also eat duck, goat, venison, mutton, fish, or shellfish, which I don't eat much of.  And also eggs, or butter and hard cheese which are animal fat.  Personally, I don't enjoy fish and I don't get much venison or goats at my local market.

There is a sub cult that is always going on about eating the offal, but most of us eat the meat we find on sale at our local market.  There is another sub cult that says to eat beef raw.  I prefer my beef "medium" and my pork well cooked.  The raw people are risking infection.

The whole point is to eat what we are made of, animal protein and animal fat.  Don't count calories.  Eat when you are hungry.  Eat as much as you want until you aren't hungry.  Don't eat because it's "time to eat," and don't eat because of boredom or need for an activity.

Anyway this is the first time in my life I've ever been able to eat all I want of dense calorie rich food and not get fat.  And my health is doing really good. 

May you live long and prosper.



Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on January 25, 2020, 02:18:06 AM
One of the best discourses about diet, meaning simply what you eat, that I've read was written by Horace Kephart just about a hundred years ago. And that was before most of the genetically modified, fortified, highly refined food we have today, although canned foods were available and there was no real inspection of food like there is supposed to be today.

Yes, a lot of good information gets ignored.

Medical literature published in 1796 said that not eating carbs or sugar would prevent diabetes, but that was mostly ignored, and was completely ignored after the 1920s when doctors discovered they could make a fortune selling artificial insulin.  Now we have a diabetes epidemic affecting close to 1/4 of the population and still they recommend a carb and sugar diet.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 25, 2020, 11:21:53 AM
If you want to read something new, read an old book.

With regards to Horace Kephart's books, some still in print, most of what he wrote about food and eating was from the standpoint of camping and also hunting, so the chapters devoted to food and cooking (and eating), about six in all, don't really constitute a basic kitchen cookbook. Other writers of the period, however, wrote about campfire cooking and barely mention food and eating. One old guidebook devoted four or five chapters on campfires. They're all interesting in their own way, though, and are not too dated. Places where you can still have a campfire are relatively scarce these days and in those places where it is, the firewood is scarce.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 25, 2020, 05:01:07 PM


Supposedly Eskimos and Indians of the far north eat the contents of the guts of caribou, which makes up for the lack of greens in their normal diet. But if nothing else, that probably illustrates the limitations of taking the diet of a relatively limited group of people and somehow trying to relate that to what you yourself eat, and assuming that what you eat now is wrong and that you should eat what someone else eats everyday.

Ah, I see the desert cart is coming around. Sorry, gotta go.
Many hunter gatherers are known to eat those guts. It is a prize. The carnivore animals in packs have dominance sociology. The dominate one will get first crack and they always go for the guts the organs, the belly. It is apparently more than inconvenience to get at. I figure that to be innate knowledge, but as far as I know, assumption.

It is apparent that some cultures must rely on meat. There was fermented preserved foods in winter for most northerners. It makes sense that a bodies survival rate would increase, if they needed to shift into ketosis and eat meats.

Rolling Thunder, the bruho, always said to eat what your ancestors ate.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 25, 2020, 05:13:51 PM

...No, it doesn't work that way. You can't judge by eating meat for one or two days.  The indigestible vegetable fiber scrapes the sides of your intestines and causes Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) and eventually colon cancer.  When you stop eating all that undigestable plant fiber your colon stops being irritated. IBS and Colon cancer are prevented.  In a couple of weeks you dump all the stuck vegetable matter. There is no more "stuff" stuck in your intestines....
It is rare that one has IBS and colon cancer and usually there is no linkage between veggies and such. It is the other western crap that creates the problems. These conditions are results of modern diet. The China Study showed the remarkable increased frequency when veggie people switch to western crap. Most of those veggie people eat grains, however, rice, corn, wheat, etc. converting to sugars. The western diet that they switch to includes meat, but that doesn't mean WOE.

I used to eat mostly meat and when my son's mother put him on a veggie diet, I made sure that he got a nice steak each week. ::)

Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 25, 2020, 05:54:02 PM
Bob Wrote: "Among carnivore WOE people there is some "sub cult" advocates who say they eat only grass fed beef, but the research shows that the only significant differences between grass fed and feed lot finished beef is that grass fed is more expensive, but feed lot finished has more fat and is more tender."

There has been extensive creative, or tainted  research by the cattle and dairy industry to create propaganda. The FDA is full of their influences. Wild meat is lean naturally, cow feed lot meat is not. I wouldn't want to be what cows are. Slovenly penned in with no exercise, overweight with fat, fed antibiotics by the ton because of the circumstance, eating GMO grains and proteins with little variety, etc. If I am what I eat, I don't want it. I am very leery of pro-feedlot information. They are dupping the public and running the government for a huge profit.

Then there are the environmental pollution issues, but I won't get into those.

The herbivores have it correct in that plants get nutrients from the ground, produce a similar organic nutrient plant, and then pass this on to who eats it. Cows are often, just a middleman taking away a cut in the profit.

Even the carnivore scat that I see around here is mostly plant material, so they are eating plants to supplement along with the pieces of fur.

Animals eat grass and fast when they get sick, it is innate knowledge. Re-calibration, I  believe, is a part of life.

I switched my dog over to fatty dog food, canned meat and chunks from the butcher. He fell over with a heart attack within two years, and after being an athlete.

I'm truly hoping that this all-in eating plan is working for you in the long term. Our bodies are very adaptable. I'll stick to what is working for me, but when it doesn't work, I'll change. I'm searching out a most natural dietary solution, like how I'm naturally nude on a nice, or a hot day and be aware of the benefits as they come.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 25, 2020, 09:05:07 PM
Well, there has certainly been plenty to digest in this thread.

People use certain words, sometimes too often, that leave me in some doubt as to whether they have any real meaning any longer. Words like natural and organic. I used to think that organic only meant it contained no petroleum products but that may no longer be true. I eat brown beans (pinto beans) now and then. You have to sort them to pick out the occasional pebble. That means that a bag of plain dried beans cannot be organic. Or can it? But organic now carries a certified label, if it really is, mostly. But natural, well, who knows what natural is? Few things we eat are really natural and then there's the question of cooking. I am cautious about any claim that something is natural. In one sense, either everything is or nothing is.

On the other hand, however, it doesn't bother me when I see advertising for any food product. It's only natural (!!!) for producers to try to persuade consumers to buy their products, whether their good, bad, natural or unnatural, organic or not. Hopefully it isn't misleading, though that presumably could happen. They are also doing it to make a profit--not a loss. I don't know how much profit is a huge profit, though, or how much is just about right. Making a profit isn't easy, you should know.

Anyone shop farmer's markets, that sometimes set up in the corner of big parking lots? Don't think they've been dragged into this discussion (of sunscreen!).
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on January 26, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
I am going to share this even though it comes from Facebook.  Similar stories are posted every day on the Carnivore FB groups. One could argue that its anecdotal, but its real people who have amazing health improvements from eating a healthy diet.  This person previously suffered from serious heart problems and bad digention troubles.  Gone.


Quote
Brandel J Rogers‎ to  World Carnivore Tribe
11 mins ·

So a dear friend shared this page with me a few months ago, I was super skeptical about trying the diet because I have heart failure and several heart related complications and crohns but I did it finally. Three weeks in and I am officially off of all blood pressure meds, and anti platelets, my abdominal issues are gone and my cholesterol has actually decreased. I feel better than I have in 25 years! Thank you Hardus Bruwer for sharing this life changing experience with me! I owe you my life!
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 26, 2020, 08:25:12 PM
Large numbers of Indians, at least those who are Hindus, are vegetarians. However, the reasoning behind that is ethical, rather than because of medical reasons (as opposed to nutritional reasons).

I suspect few of them utilize sunscreen, though.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on January 26, 2020, 09:53:42 PM
Large numbers of Indians, at least those who are Hindus, are vegetarians. However, the reasoning behind that is ethical, rather than because of medical reasons (as opposed to nutritional reasons).

I suspect few of them utilize sunscreen, though.

India has the highest rate of death from Cardiovascular disease compared to any other country.  They also have perhaps the highest percentage of vegetarians.  There is a strong correlation.

Indian people have a darker color skin typical of all those who have lived in low latitudes so they don't need sunscreen.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 26, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
It's a wonder there are so many of them.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 27, 2020, 08:40:36 PM
India is a tough place to live. It can be very stressful, food isn't always coming, there are virus issues everywhere and there are a billion of them. I don't think that is a good correlation at all. It is way too broad a sampling, too many variables.

When visiting, I have been amazed that they are as healthy as they are.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: John P on January 27, 2020, 11:55:23 PM
I'd say take everything Bob says with a grain of salt, except it's bad for your blood pressure. Care to tell us where your "fact" about India came from, Bob?

This map says something different:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/tileshop_pmc_inline.html?title=Click%20on%20image%20to%20zoom&p=PMC3&id=5491406_fx1.jpg
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 28, 2020, 01:21:58 AM
It's not difficult to find information about diet (that is, food), cooking and eating, although frankly, the eating part doesn't get mentioned very often. I suppose most of it is fairly good (the information, not the food) but there is so much information, it starts to become contradictory and confusing. I think the trouble starts when someone decides that they've discovered something new and is absolutely certain that they've discovered the secret of life, or at least a longer and better life. Could that be possible? There is always  someone saying they've discovered something new, like a secret code, in the Bible. More likely, they're just looking for loopholes. Others are looking for the fountain of youth, something to make their hair the color it was when they were 21 and the same amount, while they're at it.

Well, anyway, I suppose it's normal to want a more or less healthful life and not a short one. There's no doubt that our age will catch up with us no matter how fast we jog and I do see lots of joggers where I live, though none my age. I do occasionally see a sprightly old man about ten years older than me, making him in his early 80s, walking around the neighborhood. He happens to be Chinese and lived in Hong Kong all through the war.

Let's look at it from a naturist perspective, and by that I do not mean just a nudist perspective. A pair of shorts does not especially detract from your health and longevity or at least not enough to notice.

Naturism originally evolved over concerns about health, specifically about urban dwellers. The health of the nation was at risk. That was in Germany in the late 19th century, you probably know. The general principles remain valid and are still recommended by people who have never heard of naturism.

The first thing is good nutrition. That's where we came in. Lay off the drugs, tobacco, alcohol, go easy on deserts, and eat a variety of foods. You probably aren't doing any heavy work, so don't eat too much, either. I seriously doubt that any commercially available foods are so impure as to be dangerous to your health but if something doesn't agree with you or even worse, you have allergic reactions to something, well, you probably know that already. Eat at home, though, don't stop at McDonalds.

Drink plenty of water, too, although one writer suggested not with meals, which surprised me. Drinking plenty of water will help keep the food you ate from just sitting there and so will exercise. Taking a bath or shower every day is probably a good idea, although there have been contrary ideas expressed here lately. When I was little, a once a week bath was considered adequate and this was with men who went out and actually worked. But I feel better having taken a shower, which I'm going to do in a few minutes.

You probably already get out in the sun and fresh air as much as you can, which is good, assuming the air is fresh where you live. In industrial cities in 1900 and for long afterwards, it was anything but fresh. I don't know where the smokestack industries are in this country these days but my son-in-law after being stationed in Korea informs us that the air pollution in northern China is so bad that it basically pollutes the air in Korea, too. It's been cloudy here lately but the air is as nice as it can be. I think the subject of forest bathing has been brought up before.

I have fair skin, so I have to be careful in the sun and just like toast, I'll burn if I'm not careful. But nudist in particular have always been sun-worshippers. I believe though that exposure of the body to the air is just as important to health and well-being. But I can't quantify it, except that you don't need "air screen." It might be that if you need sun screen, you're already out in the sun too much. Mad dogs and Englishmen, you know.

This hardly exhausts what might be said on these subjects. The only bit of personal advice (I haven't noted any new discoveries here) is to do your best not to fall off a ladder. In fact, the only advice the old (but not elderly) Chinese neighbor ever gave me was to never get on my roof.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on January 28, 2020, 09:01:19 AM
The only sure thing about nutritional advise is that theres someone somewhere saying the opposite

It appears all research is either paid for by someone trying to sell something or conducted by someone trying to prove a point to build their reputation

Even the grain of salt causing high blood pressure has its opponents😊

Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 28, 2020, 12:42:13 PM
The usual unspoken assumption is that you're getting enough to eat in the first place, which may not be true. As far as salt goes, I use plenty. But I don't use sodium at all. Some very ordinary foods like pinto beans taste better with lots of salt (and some chili powder). And everyone knows how good potato chips (crisps) taste.

Is there a belief that if something tastes good, it's bad for you?

I rather like bacon but we don't eat it because cooking bacon really puts a lot of grease into the air in the kitchen and eventually coats everything around the stove. There was a joke in the comics a week or two ago: "What do you call someone who doesn't eat meat, except for bacon?"
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: John P on January 28, 2020, 04:02:51 PM
... As far as salt goes, I use plenty. But I don't use sodium at all...

What, you eat the chlorine and leave the sodium on the side of the plate?
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 28, 2020, 06:16:58 PM
It has been said that we evolved to biped chasing meat around the savanna. Also, that apes are vegetarians and the incisor fangs are for combat and selective competitive breeding dominance. Have apes always lived in the lush jungle? Was there an ancient carnivore ancestor? There are people everywhere eating anything. Some eat more meat, more fish, more veggies, seasonal, local, bugs, but they can eat any which way. I figure there are clues to optimal health as there are good reasons to not consume, lightly, or over indulge lots of diets.

There are all sorts of propaganda claims out there as Ric states. The meat industry, I'm told, has recently published a load of contradictions, and for unethical reasons. The meat industry has been sick with lies, bullying, lobbyist, corruption, since the cattle barons of yore.

I don't have time to go through it, now, but there are very good arguments showing how we evolved vegetarian. I'll gather it up someday soon. Gamechangersmovie.com has a very interesting movie out.

I'll stick with mostly live living food, personally, mostly veggies. We can adapt to radical eating and even thrive for a while, we survived that way. Long term, I think some variety is the spice of life.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Safebare on January 28, 2020, 08:05:41 PM
This has been an exceptionally lively topic. Thanks for all of the various perspectives.
My food philosophy has been "If it's not food, don't eat it!"  Read the damn labels!
I believe in mindful consumption. Giving food a serious consideration will held you feel better about your choices. I think that is incredibly important to your physical health.
My 2 cents.
~Safebare
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on January 29, 2020, 02:38:42 PM
I'll stick with mostly live living food, personally, mostly veggies. We can adapt to radical eating and even thrive for a while, we survived that way. Long term, I think some variety is the spice of life. Jbee

I do hope you fully recover from your year long illnesses.   Be well my friend. 
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 29, 2020, 05:47:56 PM
I've been doing well, just getting over being weakened by being bedridden and that's shaking itself out. I'm getting much more energetic. I had to eat more antibiotics for a tooth extraction a couple of weeks ago, so I'm doing supplements to fix what they took away.

Yes, twice last year I was prescribed amoxicillin and then got a long sickness of virus and a bacterial infection. I think that there is a correlation, but the doctor says probably not, because there is no statistical evidence of the millions who take it each year. Nobody has seriously checked, made the statistical study. They're too busy selling the drug.

Part of it was the complications caused from enlarged prostate. 60% to 70% of guys my age have that, but in my case it contributed, I was told. Prostrate specialist Doc (who must have been in his 80's) says that if I don't have to get up more than two times a night and can pee and hit the wall two feet away, I'm good and let it ride.

A great deal of it was the poorly functioning medical business model delaying the tests and then the cure. Three months of suffering should obviously have been one month. In Mexico, I'd probably been fine in a week with the shotgun medicine for ecoli that they prescribe. I suspect from just how I felt, that an overload of stressors was contributing, too. It was a tough year health and financial. It often felt like a trap.

At least I now know that the tests tell me that I'm healthy, no cancers, nothing else and now I'll improve on that.
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 29, 2020, 10:38:26 PM
Coincidentally, there was an article appearing in today's Washington Post, in the food section, that suggested (or claimed) that supplements are mostly worthless. They're referring to the stuff you can buy in a so-called health food store.

The funny thing, which isn't funny, is that some people seem to believe something they read on-line over what their doctor tells them. They'll go along with the anti-vaccine, unchlorinated water, raw milk crowd over what the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control will say. It makes me think of the joke, "Anyone who drinks water deserves whatever happens to them." I think that some people also think that if certain people get sick, they deserve it and we shouldn't do anything about it, which is no joke. There's a lot of denial concerning diseases.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Safebare on January 30, 2020, 04:23:39 AM
I am not one to argue, but the Washington Post article I read says nothing about health food stores. The supplements they referred to can be bought at Walgreens, Walmart or any other suppliers of things that are supposed to be good for us.
I don't have chlorinated or fluorinated water and prefer raw milk to the highly pasteurized (ie. refined) milk.
We all have to decide what's right for us.  I will decide for me and will try not to get too deep in criticizing your choices. Just don't assume what you see working for you is what everyone else should be doing.
Peace out!
~Safebare
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 30, 2020, 07:22:49 AM
Many of them ARE worthless. I get medical grade supplements through a doctor.

I mostly only use them for recovery. I never use  them for long periods. A body can addict to them. I'm concerned that if supplements are used a body may stop producing for itself. The excess is often weird on a body. Imbalance is a possibility, like B vitamins.

I can get what I need in natural sources, but it can be hard.

I do collagen supplement after getting obvious results and from other's good results, but every couple of weeks, I stop for a week, if I'm doing a smoothie every morning.

Then, my doctors are prescribing things like Vitamin D, iron and B-12. Their data has been often wrong and ignorant. Docs don't learn about nutrition.

If my food lacks nutrition, vitamins probably won't hurt.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 30, 2020, 01:08:11 PM
If those supplements aren't sold in health food stores, what do health food stores sell, then? I wasn't implying that the article mentioned health food stores. It's just that I happen to pass by one frequently. I've never been in that store but I imagine it has shelves full of bottles of pills. I still imagine that some people feel better taking supplements whether they do any good or not, provided they do no harm. The Post had an interesting article about salsa in the food section, too, with no suggestion as to whether it was good for you.

I think it's rare for Americans to be undernourished. Many may not eat well but no one's going to die from lack of nourishment. Yes, they may live longer if their diet is perfect, like yours is, but is it something for you to worry about? My wife is almost certain to outlive me by ten years, judging from our respective family histories and we eat at the same table. Mostly ignored in these discussions is that we eat when we're hungry and we eat what we like to eat and probably eat the same things we've been eating for decades. That said, there are always new foods being introduced into this country by immigrants. There have been Chinese restaurants in this country since around the time of the Civil War. Pizza came later.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 30, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
Bluetrain wrote: "I think it's rare for Americans to be undernourished. Many may not eat well but no one's going to die from lack of nourishment."
 Depends on where you put the bar on nutrition. There is lots of evidence that Americans are short on nutrition. The food is over cooked, over processed, days old and called fresh. The result is disease, lethargy, immobility, depression among many outcomes. This leads to diabetes, heart attacks and cancers, which are the major killers.

Not so many are having gestended bellies, but the optimum is not reached by probably most and the scale goes down from there. Americans eat overdone genetically weird wheat, sugar and weird fat as their major staple, instead of healthy real food.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 30, 2020, 10:20:38 PM
Overcooked, over processed, and days old pretty much describes what I grew up eating. I've even read complaints that food isn't being cooked enough these days, although I don't recall what that resulted in. Crunchy green beans, I guess. But if we eat healthy, what will we die of then? Shall we merely die in good health?

I have no authority to put up the standards on nutrition no more than I do the height-weight standards, nor do I have any suggestions. But leaving that behind for the moment, I would imagine that these things vary by location. For example, one frequently hears about overweight Americans, even morbidly obese. But yet where I live, I simply do not see it. Perhaps I go to the wrong places; or more likely, I don't go to the wrong places. However, my daughter, now about 30, went to school in West Virginia and lives there now. I vividly recall her mentioning that there were more fat people there (no offence to West Virginia; I was born there). So I do not deny that some people might weight a little more than they should but it's not the same everywhere. Whose problem that is, I don't know.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: John P on January 31, 2020, 04:36:00 PM
I claim to have a naturist attitude toward food, though I'm sure others (some of them right here!) would say they're doing the same, and yet they have a totally different practical conclusion. But I think the human body is excellent at handling different circumstances, and that means that we're true omnivores, able to eat a wide variety of foods and remain healthy. So within some pretty broad limits, I think you can eat what you choose, and you don't need to make a deep study of all the components your diet has to have to allow you to survive. An ordinary diet is all any of us need.

In particular, "Is There Really Any Benefit to Multivitamins?" (Pretty much no, there isn't.)
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/is-there-really-any-benefit-to-multivitamins

And I don't think we help ourselves by saying "Doctors don't know anything". They know a hell of a lot more than I do, I'm sure of that.

BlueTrain, I'm sure you've seen that on just about every state-by-state comparison of health issues, West Virginia comes out near the bottom every time. People there just don't seem to take care of themselves. What's the psychology behind that?
http://wvmetronews.com/2019/09/12/report-west-virginia-continues-to-lead-nation-in-adult-obesity-rate/



Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on January 31, 2020, 05:16:17 PM
It is more than just vitamins and minerals that a body needs. There are things like amino acids, stuff in the soil, bacteria. Roughage in plants, certain oils to lubricate. These things are part of eating healthy live living foods. Things that we evolved with and vitamins are just a part of. Multi-vitamins are just a supplement, they try to be a failsafe to enhance. Vitamins are no substitute. If your food and diet aren't enough, they can help, but like the article says, get your stuff from healthy sources.

I see kids growing up eating little in nutritious foods and lots of faked foods. Some are slow, some aren't. They are chubby and get little or limited exercise. I see others dramatically healthier eating better.

There is something to vitamins. I know that when I eat them, at first, I can actually have some extra energy, but it wears off after a while. A body needs to starve some, to fast, to readjust, to cleanse, to use up excess. That is a natural pattern with hunter gatherers.

Are we going to just get by, or optimize and avoid harmful, harmful short and long term? Are we merely out to survive, or survive longer term. I'm going to be around for a longer term than I expected. I'll make the best of it. It is about quality, less about quantity. Dying is one thing, but my concern is quality until that date.

Naturally nude is healthy, but also fun and adds richness to life. Eating and health, living in this body, is best done healthy, but it can be fun, needs to be fun and rich, too. I don't slack off and get a sunburn. I shouldn't over eat, or over indulge.
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on January 31, 2020, 06:42:50 PM
People live all over the world in all sorts of environments. Moreover, they (we) eat all kinds of food and mostly thrive on whatever we eat, provided we get enough of it, which is not a given. It may have been natural (or normal) for primitive hunter-gatherers to have lean times but it wasn't because that's what they wanted, nor does it follow that it's necessarily better for them. I'm beginning to believe we overthink this whole thing about food and nutrition. And sometimes, for some people, just getting by is something of a minor achievement.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Safebare on January 31, 2020, 11:27:24 PM
"it wasn't because that's what they wanted, nor does it follow that it's necessarily better for them."
I respect your perspective, Blue Train, but the presentation hits my nerves.  Opinions roll out of your fingertips as though you have some authority on the subject, when it is simply an opinion.  I can accept it as style, but it still causes me to pause.

"I'm beginning to believe we overthink this whole thing about food and nutrition." Now this is a statement I can totally get behind.

I believe our own metabolism has evolved over eons.  And evolved differently according to habitat and diet.  That evolution continues today.  Our bodies are adapting to the GMO, chemically altered, over processed, profit derived foods that currently crowd our supermarket shelves and corner drive through.  Well, maybe more so for some of us than others.  But the point is that whether you fast, take vitamins, eat entrails or mercury laden shell fish, your body is taking notice.  As a good friend frequently reminds me, "It all ends up as a turd".

I make a concerted effort to minimize my contributions to the municipal landfill, recycling approximately 80% of my discarded waste.  Organic material is composted.  Why is this important to a discussion on diet?  I try to adapt the same philosophy to what I eat. I do eat junk, but do it consciously and conscientiously. Mindfully.  My niece was the editor of 'The China Study', referenced by JB.  Her blood flows through me.  It makes me look closely at the 'food' i eat, and strive to do more.

These are my own perspectives.  I hold only that each must set their own.  My advice: Don't be led down the road paved by profit and commercialism.  That taco in the commercial cannot be found at the drive-through.

~Safebare
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 01, 2020, 01:18:28 AM
You could always shop in supermarkets that operate at a loss, if profit bothers you.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on February 01, 2020, 08:11:24 AM
Bluetrain, I don't know if you are being sarcastic, humor, or what. I'm sure that Safebare meant that profiteering has this innate problem. It goes from reasonable to a corrupted unethical greed very fast and often, depending on who is at the helm and what they are driven by, just profit/bottom line or psychopathocally cold and dangerous compared to putting on the brakes and doing the right thing..

As for my understanding of the issue, more and more, everyday, over years and years, I have been seeing cold corporate pigs doing nasty for a buck as a more and more common behavior. CEO's have a mandate to make profit and they are hurting, even killing people for it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on February 01, 2020, 09:19:29 AM
Here are some stats (supposed facts) gleened out of that movie that I mentioned above.
A plant based diet actually gives more energy.
All the amino acids are available in plants.
Meat is a middleman.
Mr. meat for muscle Arnold Schwarzenegger went veggie at 69 and his cholesterol went down to the best of his life.
There is a 75% less risk from all causes of pre-natural death wiht a plant based diet.
Increase of 400 to 500% of colon and breast cancer , or diabetes2 from meat compared to veggie diet.
40% increase of prostrate cancer.
One white meat meal each week triples risk of colon cancer.

In olden evolutionary times meat didn't preserve, so plants were key to survival.
There are no meat adaptations for meat consumption. It is of course ignoring your ketosis and many good arguments. The teeth are for veggie eaters, because the fangs are used  for combat and intimidation, by apes and other relatives, not eating flesh. But still:
Carnivores all have shorter digestive tracks. We have the veggie longer track.
We can't produce our own vitamin C, and it doesn't come from meat.
We have tricarmatic vision (color). It is good for finding fresh ripe fruit. Carnivores have dichromatic vision.
The brain in crazy about glucose. Carbs make for a bigger brain.
B-12 comes from bacteria that animals get from traces in the soil and water, not meat. Pesticides, clorine and anti-biotics kill the bacteria. Farm animals get B-12 supplements, both veggie people and meat people are often low in B-12. This getting it from meat is a propaganda thing to sell meat (selling doubt).
Veggie and meat eaters both have testosterone, but animal foods have estrogen. Drinking cows milk within one hour will decrease testosterone by 20% and increase estrogen by 18%.
Cortisol drops with a veggie diet.
 
3/4 of all the land in the world is used by livestock. Using 83% of the land they produce only 13% of the calories.
Animals consume 6times more protein than they produce.
One hamburger uses 2400 liters of water to produce it. Animals are 27% of water consumption.
They produce 50 times more waste than people.
They produce 15%of all emissions, I have read other statistic claiming much more, like #3 in production of greenhouse gasses.

A single hamburger can increase inflammation by 70%.
Plants have 64% more antioxidants.
Switching to a plant diet for three weeks, reduces inflammation by 29%.

I haven't delved into these claims deeply, but there is enough here to show that something is happening and something is wrong and unsustainable. The stats are just too high, too extreme to ignore. The studies are good, but I'm not so sure how good. It ain't anecdotal, but it's...I digress. There is just so much info out there.

Any conventional doc will say that eating just meat is setting up for heart attacks, etc. But they are often wrong. This other stuff however, has some argument.

I cured my Vitamin D deficentcy with one raw egg in my smoothie each day and plenty of naked sunshine during peak hours. Eggs are everything that a chicken needs to grow and mature, like sprouts are filled with everything that plants need to get started. So, I eat some meat as egg. I eat some fish for omega 3's, oil and protein. I think that mostly live living veggies are best, natural and healthiest. Live living veggies taste best, I get satisfied quicker, I eat less and go further on them.
Jbee




Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 01, 2020, 11:39:44 AM
Bluetrain, I don't know if you are being sarcastic, humor, or what. I'm sure that Safebare meant that profiteering has this innate problem. It goes from reasonable to a corrupted unethical greed very fast and often, depending on who is at the helm and what they are driven by, just profit/bottom line or psychopathocally cold and dangerous compared to putting on the brakes and doing the right thing..

As for my understanding of the issue, more and more, everyday, over years and years, I have been seeing cold corporate pigs doing nasty for a buck as a more and more common behavior. CEO's have a mandate to make profit and they are hurting, even killing people for it.
Jbee

Of course I was being sarcastic and it was deserved. But you should know that human behavior has not changed one bit in recorded history. There are rarely benevolent corporate CEOs. Slavery was considered perfectly acceptable not that long ago and I imagine it still is. As for corporations, their only reason for existence is to make money for the owners. It doesn't necessarily work that way all the time but that's another story. It isn't to provide employment for people, either. I have no idea how much money corporations should make, although some have a clear idea: "reasonable."

It always irks me when people cry about profit making when farmers across the country barely scrape by. Not the huge corporate farms (that actually provide most of the food we eat) but all the small farmers that we think of as the salt (not the sodium) of the earth. Having worked for corporations for the last 50 years, I can assure you that it isn't all that easy to make money. It might help to have connections in D.C. but none I worked for did, even though one job I had was across the street from the treasury department. They still went out of business.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on February 01, 2020, 08:45:53 PM
BlueTrain wrote, "although some have a clear idea: "reasonable." ;D
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 01, 2020, 09:48:19 PM
How much money anybody makes on a food product is really irrelevant to the issues brought up here so far, although what is costs the consumer certainly is. But what someone eats is really their own business, mostly, although I have read that those living in the big suburbs, people like us who have cars and are not hurting financially, sometimes have better places to do their grocery shopping and sometimes at lower prices than those living in the poorer sections of the big city. Doubtful if that is true for those living in the poorer suburbs, which also exist. There is also the matter of how "good" food is more expensive than "junk" food. However, my wife does the shopping. Then too, "junk food" is a loaded expression.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Safebare on February 02, 2020, 12:17:05 AM
I guess the sarcasm was deserved.  I really struggle with the real intent, but accept that you found offense and therefor feel justified in the retort.  It adds no value to the discussion, so I will ignore it.
To be honest, much of what you post, Blue Train, is very difficult for my small brain to follow.  An example:  "How much money anybody makes on a food product is really irrelevant to the issues brought up here so far, although what it costs the consumer certainly is."
Okay.  How can profit be irrelevant, but 'cost certainly is' (relevant)?  Isn't profit a 'relevant' part of cost?  My mind just can't decipher your meaning.
I truly believe that our differences make us stronger.  I do not intend to be critical, but I can understand that my perspective can come across that way.  Let's try to keep this on the 'high road' by avoiding senseless sarcasm and other pokes and prods.  That way we can support each other in our differences, not push each other apart, where we end up less than where we started.
~Safebare
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 02, 2020, 11:46:12 AM
Okay, first of all, this is (I think) supposed to be a forum where one exchanges ideas and opinions with other participants. We have learned recently that in some circles, having a different opinion is not tolerated and one gets excluded from the circle. I hope that is not the case here.

Secondly, don't overthink these things. These are not academic papers being presented.

Now, on to the important stuff. In the discussion of food, nutrition, health and sunscreen, the core issue is the consumption and use of food and nutrition. How it affects your health and longevity. The profitability (or not) of the producers and the chain of hands that gets it to the supermarket shelf or the stand at the farmer's market on Saturday morning makes no difference to the product itself. It is true there may be ethical issues involved but those are separate issues. Likewise, the profitability of a corporation or the individual farmer at the farmer's market is of no consequence to the consumer and it's unlikely he would ever know what it was anyway. However, the cost (that is, the selling price) of the product is usually very important to the consumer, especially for those without a lot of spare change in their pocket. And finally, there is no direct link between the cost (what it costs the seller) and the price (what the consumer pays). The cost is whatever it is and the producer and all those in-between do not, contrary to public opinion, have complete control of the cost. It goes without saying that they put a lot of effort into managing the costs but that's about it. And the selling price, absent government cost controls or the existence of a cartel or unregulated monopoly, is determined by the market place. Morality, fair play and concern for the consumer is usually completely absent beyond the desire to retain customers. That's the real world and there's a little more to it than will fit in one paragraph. It isn't my intent to defend market economics or capitalism but merely to explain it. There's no need to like it. Feel free to be critical. Marx (Karl, not Groucho) was very critical of the way it worked. I am trying to separate the discussion of food, nutrition (and sunscreen) from economics.

I also want to mention that greed enters into the matter, which word I think has entered the discussion once or twice already. Greed, as far as it affects the product, results in selling or attempting to sell, poor quality products or products deceptively advertised. Not only that, but forcing employees to work longer hours without appropriate pay or under dangerous conditions. I suppose greed is human nature. Hoarding a scarce product is a mild form of it. It's probably unfortunate that the super-rich run the big corporations that supply us with food and keep us fat and happy and I doubt that few of them have any moral character whatsoever. You get to be super-rich by being greedy, although it sure helps to inherit some of it. Forgive me for saying all this if you happen to be among the super-rich.

Profit is not part of cost; it's that part of the selling price left over after the cost.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on February 02, 2020, 03:22:15 PM
Before and after quitting vegetables for an all carnivore diet.  Related to avoiding sunburn without chemicals.


From Ken Nelson

"Before and after shots of my progress with skin issues of eczema. Doctors couldn’t help, only made it worse with their drugs that messed up my adrenal glands. I had this issue for years and life was Hell at times.

"The Carnivore diet cured me and got my life back. I will never eat plant based so-called foods again.

"I’m 60 now and all my joint pain has gone as well and I feel great. I'm even back inline skating twice a week and my knees never better.

"There really is nothing better than being the best 'you'.

"Being Carnivore has enabled me to get back in the gym after suffering with forearm tendonitis and joint pain for years.

"Among a host of other things."

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156629457201962&set=pcb.640822620011719&type=3&theater
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 02, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
So I should follow the advice of someone almost 15 years younger than me?
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Safebare on February 02, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
Follow your heart Blue Train. You may be surprised where it will lead you 😉.
Yes, you should consider the advice of those younger than yourself. Whether or not you follow it should rest in your heart. I've learned a lot from people of all ages and even more from those that didn't say anything.
Bob, I am delighted that you have found something that helps with the pain of aging. Thank you for sharing it. I can't see me jumping on the carnivore bandwagon, but it is interesting.
Be Safe,
~Safebare
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 02, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
Hopefully I did and there I am.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on February 02, 2020, 07:27:23 PM
Holy cripe Bob! Dat sure ugly! That guy had some unusual problem, but I doubt that it was the veggies that was doing it. I would think that it would be more likely that medication, or other substances (food) that he was eating and how. Glad to see the remedy working for him. He is obviously getting exercise with his diet, too.

I went from high cholesterol and lost 50 pounds over several months to recommended weight for my height. I was sluggish, getting winded easily, much less agile, rollercoaster mood swings from sugars in my blood, typical overweight stuff, irregular bowels and hemorrhoids, felt that I was getting old, didn't feel as sexy and younger than this guy. I felt clogged up and didn't even know it, thinking that it was normal.

All of that went away with veggie, mostly raw, and exercise became easier. Food became even tastier. I'm still honing it. I feel like I'm getting younger. All of my tests say that I'm healthy as a horse. Other than prostrate having me drip longer and a bit more urgency at times and a hernia, which is probably a need for more movement and exercise, I'm good to go and moving better and more trim than most of my peers. It is dramatic. That is why I strive to keep up with it, the results are like blessings. Then, there is the meditation and lifestyle and other good things that I do.

So, I was diagnosed with low Vitamin D and added one raw egg to the diet and kept getting more naked sun. JUst one egg.

I eat sushi once a week and some sardines sometimes, usually. I enjoy a veggie pizza sometimes. Some variety is good and probably relatively harmless. I fast when I fall too far off of the wagon.

So, veggies work for me. Conventional medicine tells us that eating just meat is extreme and long term problems are likely for most of us doing the same, but doctors are very often wrong about things, not all things, but many things over the years, like breast milk, cholesterol, thyroids, to name just three.

If I found my body reacting like that, I'd fast and cleanse. Did he use antibiotic soaps? His blood flow was bad.

So, where do you get your B-12? Do you eat liver for iron? Are you concerned about the polluted liver of factory farm animals? I used to eat kosher chopped liver, back when I was not doing as well while eating lots of meat.

A dear friend of mine died yesterday in ICU. Walking down the street and got hit by a car wreck. He had had a heart attack a few years ago, and was taking much better care of himself.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on February 02, 2020, 11:19:39 PM
So, where do you get your B-12? Do you eat liver for iron? Are you concerned about the polluted liver of factory farm animals? I used to eat kosher chopped liver, back when I was not doing as well while eating lots of meat. Jbee

Eating a carnivore diet you get plenty of B-12, iron, and omega-3 from the meat. It also turns out that most of what Vitamin C is used for is to digest plants, so very little is needed on a zero plant diet.

Carnivore people (like the above example I posted) don't get sunburned without using all the toxic chemicals. Healthy skin just takes care of it while making vitamin D. 
Bob
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: Bob Knows on February 02, 2020, 11:21:06 PM
So I should follow the advice of someone almost 15 years younger than me?

I'm never too old to learn.  I learned about carnivore way of eating from my youngest son who is almost 40 years younger.  I only wish I had the information available when I was his age.

Bob
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 03, 2020, 12:44:03 AM
I think diet and eating is only one part of the picture. I'm not so certain about fasting, though. Mind you, a lot turns on how active you are. People, usually men, who do heavy manual work need a lot more to eat than someone like me, who could easily get by on two meals a day, which I try to do. Of course, few actually do heavy manual labor anymore? No matter what I eat, though, if I eat more than I need to, I'll gain weight. I suspect that serious changes in one's weight may be harder on your system than what one weighs to begin with. I for one, however, cannot afford to lose much weight. It just isn't there.

Okay, here's the naturist part again (not the nudist part). I believe it is essential to maintain an active outdoor lifestyle as much as possible. It isn't always possible, of course, given that we usually have to work for a living. And I've known more than a few ladies who lived to a respectable old age without having an active outdoor life. But ask any housewife if keeping a house is active or not.

By an active outdoor life, I just mean getting outside and doing something every day, like going on a good walk. I don't care for tramping around on the sidewalk, like my wife does (she walks a lot more than I do) but I'm lucky in that there are woods behind my house, giving me the opportunity to take about a two-mile walk through the woods, which is just about right. I see a lot of people out walking, and some running, too. I just don't see the grossly overweight people that Americans are supposed to all be these days. But perhaps they all stay indoors. The dog walkers are out, too, and it's said a dog is good because it gets you outside everyday.

So, I don't think there are any secrets to be found or magic pills. There's a certain amount of effort you have to expend, naturally. You can't simply have the perfect diet and just sit there. Dick Van Dyke says you have to keep moving. That may be easier said than done. It's good for your joints if you don't overdo it and it's good for your digestion as well as your appetite. Some old book says a little wine might be good, too. I know next to nothing about things like yoga and calisthenics, while probably the best thing you could do, just seems so old-fashioned. Doing manual work is good in more ways than one. If you aren't doing some manual labor, that is, doing something with your hands, you're living the life of cattle.

Most of what's in this thread belongs in the other one about "if you thought clothing was bad." These things happen. Older outdoor manuals never mention sunscreen or sunblock except in a mountaineering context. Suntan lotions have been around at least since the war and the kind that lifeguards sometimes put on their noses is older. The old manuals always mention insect repellant and some of those concoctions sound like they would be reasonably good sunblocks, too. But the kind of insect repellants we use have been around longer than most of us have, except in aerosol cans. It isn't like people were always well dressed, either. One pre-war writer mentions hiking without a shirt but I don't remember what he said about sun tans and the like.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: ric on February 03, 2020, 09:34:29 AM
the one thing thats often forgotten when people promote any particular diet or health trick is that we all have different lifestyles,  exposure to outside elements, emfs , chemicals, levels of light, levels of physical activity to mention a few.  thats before we start on our own sensitivities , alergies and even ethics/morals.

we must all remember that whatever is right for us as individuals is not necessarily going to be right for anyone else.

all we can or perhaps even should do is report whats worked for us and then let anyone else make their own informed decision.

in my own case with respect to sunscreen its simple i dont use it,  mainly because i dont want to cook my skin in untested chemicals.   ill burn if im exposed to too much sun.... time varies with intensity.  id rather use shade or even clothing if i have to.  workwise im usually in a position to decide whether to remain out in the sun or work in the shade, but i accept that not everyone has that freedom.   

Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 03, 2020, 01:48:49 PM
There's no two ways about it: some people are more sun sensitive than others. Black Africans, it was said, carry their own sun protection. White and "colored" (according to this old book) need protection. That was well before sun screens. The language and vocabulary was quaint, to be sure, but once it was translated into modern terms, it was perfectly sensible and still relevant. It is the ultra-violet rays of the sun that cause skin damage, apparently. Old books prescribe what now seem bizarre solutions to the problem, including orange or black undergarments. But the same old sun still shines. One book casually mentions in passing that the soldiers wore no underwear except for socks and shirt, a shirt being considered as an undergarment at the time. They were almost knee-length and that was generally true everywhere.

We generally enter the world and grow up in a family under circumstances over which we have no control. We eat what we're given and whatever it is has probably been what everyone in the region eats, too, more or less. Migrations, especially mass migrations, stirs the pot. Probably, the general overall diet of a population, regionally, is going to be what is best for them, given availability and requirements. Only relatively recently have we really been able to eat just about anything we want without regards to seasonality. I would also suggest that 'most' people can afford to keep themselves well-fed, although people of lower income spend a larger proportion of their income on food. And I also suggest that for those of us on this forum, food cost is not a critical factor in what we eat. And for those of us who are married, our wives will probably outlive us, no matter what. Mine almost certainly will. She's seven years younger.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on February 04, 2020, 04:51:30 AM
If I acclimate to the sun, by being out in it, naked, then it won't be surprised and a deep tan will suffice. If I stay inside, or in clothes and suddenly expose my self to the sun, then there may be consequences. If I jet from one climate to the next, like winter to tropical beach, then I'll need to be careful. It isn't a natural way for a human being to travel like that and not have the time to acclimate the skin. That is natural humanity, but most of us don't live naturally, so it is like ric says.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 04, 2020, 12:01:00 PM
If I were living naturally, I'd be living in a cave. But birds build nests, don't they? Besides, a good cave is hard to find.
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: jbeegoode on February 04, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
Lots of olden time shelters are just sophisticated bird nests upside down. People around here used to spend lots of time outside, maybe under a ramada. They wore little or nothing in the heat and beautiful days. They had some dark skin adaptation, but got darker still, I'd say, by knowing the local natives.

I don't know what they did in the winter cold days. They left no clothing artifacts, but some in other regions used plants, maybe skins. This region has only found some reed huaraches sandals.

Bottom line a body gets used to it, in increments.
Jbee
Title: Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
Post by: BlueTrain on February 04, 2020, 07:54:10 PM
The logical thing to do is to make only the shelter you need. Even if you lived in a conventional wood-framed house, that's still true, although the question of how much you need may never be answered. If you have a big family, you will need a larger house. And if you're the kind of family that likes to join the parents in bed on Saturday morning, you might wish for a larger bed, too.

Regarding more primitive societies, a few of which still exist, everybody generally has a shelter (that is, a house) as good as the next person or their space in a communal shelter. That's not true for us. It's also true that in primitive societies, there are good years and there are lean year, which has nothing to do with shelter. But everywhere I've lived, shelter was an absolute necessity for most of the year. In a few places, people are, or were until very recently, still living in the first shelters built by the pioneers.