Free Range Naturism

Naturism => General Naturism Discussion => Topic started by: JOhnGw on July 01, 2015, 05:01:56 PM

Title: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on July 01, 2015, 05:01:56 PM
This was a well used topic in the Secret Naturist Society and contained a wealth of helpful hints and information from and for secret and free-range naturists.
By the nature of things it was mostly wives who were the problem partners but I have used the new title to try to be more inclusive.
(Please forgive me if there is already and equivaplent topic - I failed to spot it when I looked.)

My reason for starting the topic is that on this holiday, for the first time that I can remember my wife has not dressed since we arrived at Village naturist du Bosc while I have dressed twice for various necessary reasons - a total reversal of the usual situation.
I would normally have added this post to the "Wife Progress" topic in SNS.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on July 01, 2015, 07:02:57 PM
So, you have the problem this time and she has no problem? :D

When I go to De Anza Resort, I make a point to take no clothing if I can. I have stashed clothing, just for the trip out there for emergencies, but I generally look to wear only a towel for warmth at night, border patrol stops and gassing up. We took four coconut halves on a string (to cover our breasts) and two grass skirts, and once body paint out there for a costume party, that's all that gets worn on the property and surrounding hiking. I understand her attitude, there is just no point in clothing and naked feels great...or maybe she just forgot!

An ex-lover of mine took my dare and went out there and also Blacks Beach (around 500 miles to the coast) with nothing. I pumped gas. Drive-through fast food, border checks, the climb down to the beach, and rest stops, were all done with a short towel that barely wrapped around her. She loved it. She liked the attention at the rest stop, me I'm not excited about intentional exposure of myself.

I like the sense liberation when making a point of being naked. I like the challenge. I like the sense of "naked." It is like hiking naked with no back up, just nature. I like the sense that once it is done, there is no turning back. A drive to De Anza is epic, however. If we head out there in that motorhome this month, we will be self contained and no restaurants, nor shopping, someone else driving. I just may do it no backup myself. We'll see.
Jbee   
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on July 01, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Jbee
. . . me I'm not excited about intentional exposure of myself.

I like the sense liberation when making a point of being naked. I like the challenge. I like the sense of "naked." It is like hiking naked with no back up, just nature.

That's me, Jbee.  I love the naked experience but not the attention. If it were no big deal, it would be no big deal.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on July 04, 2015, 01:26:28 AM
Oh dear, I just tacked an appropriate article for this thread in another!  Thanks for recreating it JOhn.  Hang on, I'll cut & paste!
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 01, 2015, 11:35:11 PM
So, you have the problem this time and she has no problem? :D

<snip rest of good post>

Jbee   

It so happened that I needed to drive to the supermarket and also cycle to the textile village shop for supplies.
Both of these were done naked except that I dressed (and undressed) in the supermarket car park and similarly in the approaches to the textile village.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 02, 2015, 10:34:56 PM
I just got round to pasting my previous email into this thread to give it a good kick off, so to speak.
No need to read it - it's simply the account I wrote last month

John


Quote
The weather has been very good in June/July and I have been very keen to spend as much time as possible in the correct dress.  However, now retired and both of us at home together a lot, one is a bit penned in by the dear wife, so I have been facing into my opportunities much more blatantly.  I was mowing the lower lawn and decided to be utterly uninhibited and not bother to dress to do the sections that are overlooked by an upper window next door because with shrubs etc in full leaf they can't really see the lower half of one.  After I'd finished I made me and the wife a nice cuppa and sitting in the sun remarked that I had mowed the lawn naked and she hadn't noticed despite sitting out in view of me turning round each swathe and doing it for about 20 minutes.  She tutted and moaned a bit but I had the opportunity to exemplify that my naturism is discreet and secret and part of that is about what other people expect to see.  Since she wasn't expecting it she didn't look and had she not been reading I would probably have not been so blatantly naked. 

I've also adopted saying to her when I'd be nude as in "When you next come out be aware I'll probably be naked so make your presence known and I'll cover up".  Generally she's accepted that if she's not there it's sort of invisible and if invisible it's ok.

So I've been pushing it as far as I can indoors and out.  We often have a bedtime cuppa and indeed a morning cuppa in bed.  When I go to make it I go naked and she often says "Put something on, for heaven's sake" or words to that effect, my reply has been 'No'.  This month whilst it's been an issue therefore I've taken the opportunity to explain how one is discreet and can easily avoid answering the door to someone whilst naked or being seen through a window.  I have pointed out my standby shorts and tshirt kept downstairs and on one occasion when the doorbell did ring early morning, how I could walk upstairs, get into a dressing gown and answer the door in adequate time with neither rush or panic or embarrassment.  Because we have been sitting out a lot together I have pointed out how it is not possible to be seen in the appropriate places.

She is still very uneasy if I disrobe next to her on the patio.  "Cover up, for heaven's sake".  On those occasions I cover my crotch with a small square of kikoy or drape shorts over it.  As one might expect a degree of toleration is emerging.  As I say, being naked around her makes her feel uncomfortable most of the time but acceptance of discretion when she's not there is improving.

There has been a tiny bit of discussion about my feelings about naturism and I have emphasised that I accept that she just doesn't get it but that she should understand that there is more to being naked than she realises and that none of it is perverted, sexual or even particularly unusual and being very emphatic that I'm not going to try and explain because it won't make any difference and it will lead to a debate that neither of us will win or even compromise on because we both have very strong views.  I think that did get her thinking though.  I have promised that I would never embarrass her knowingly.

We have been looking for a new house and I have been emphasising that a private garden and not being overlooked is something I would like very much.  It took a bit of refusing to be interested in overlooked houses for the penny to drop and to give me the opportunity to say that I would like to think I could have some naked sunbathing in the garden sometimes and be able to go downstairs nude to make the tea and not worry about her being worried that I'd be on view.

To my delight she seems to have accepted this to quite a large extent and I really think I may have moved her a notch up.  This week we saw a vry nice house with a jacuzzi in the very small, very secluded garden.  In our conversation about the house, I said to her quite clearly that she could not expect me not to be naked in the jacuzzi and be able to walk naked to and from it unencumbered by the nuisance of clothing.  She replied that she would perhaps do the same sometimes.  I replied that I would be delighted if she did and that maybe that would be a positive experience for her and help her understand.

In another house there were high hedges and fences and I was enthusiastic about its seclusion and as we developed the argument about that one she was pointing out all the vulnerabilities to make sure I had recce'd it properly and would be happy to be naked and that she'd be happy that I was hidden.  In another house surrounded by hedges and with very good seclusion (which we have an offer on) she had moved to an acceptance that I would be naked in the garden and could walk into the garden at dawn or midnight freely and without needing to cover up.  In these conversations I have assured her that perforce nudity is sporadic (we are not living in Arizona!) and that I'm not going to start insisting on living a totally naked life and that I'd regulate it to reasonable and discreet proportions as I have told her.

The house we have offered on is a bit cheaper than we'd budgeted for and needed less redecoration etc., and she remarked that one use for the positive financial difference would be to have a jacuzzi in the garden like the other house, where I could be naked!  I felt really good about that as you might imagine.  We can't afford a jacuzzi (she knows that too) but her suggestion was reassuring.

I reckon some progress has been truly made in her willingness to accept that I'm a naturist and that it is unlikely that the world will discover this fact and that we'd become a laughing stock!  The house we're wanting is in a large village and she said that she would not tolerate me becoming the village naturist - a figure of fun with people laughing at her in the post office cue.  So I better keep it quiet or else.  (note, keep it quiet not don't do it!).  This reveals both that there is a bit of acceptance and also the depths of her social fears about nudity.

Finally, I forgot to mention another moment whilst she was moaning:
"Why do you feel you want to be naked all the time?  It's unnatural"
"I'm not going to engage with that, Darling, we've agreed you don't currently and don't want to understand it."
"Well why don't you go off to some naturist place sometimes and be naked there for a day and get it off your chest?"
"But you hate the idea that I should mix with other naturists, you think it's an evil addiction on my part and I will lose my sole amongst naturists because you tell me they are the spawn of satan."
"Yes, but at least you'd be doing it out of the way."
"My naturism is about being free, without clothes and not about seeking to be with other naturists but if you're happy for me to excercise my desire for nakedness in nature, I wouldn't say no to a few days at naturist clubs."
So I think we're perhaps in a frame for permitting social naturism one day (maybe soon!) without concomitant divorce.  The reported conversation was a bit more roundabout than that but no less clear in statements.

Hope the long posts are readable and that you're not bored by my account of the trivial, argumentative detail of my domestic existence!
I felt though that I'd like to share my busy month for being nude and what it's spin offs have been!
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 02, 2015, 10:52:35 PM
A month or so ago I reported an apparent slight scintilla of slackening of the wife's negative attitude to nudity.  And it is true that her barbs have been a little less pithy of late and some small accommodation seems to have emerged.

Yesterday, in the sunny afternoon, she sat out on the patio and I casually descended into the main part of the garden, just below, and sat in my secluded sunny spot which is some 6 feet below the patio. Wearing just shorts, I slipped them off.  Now, Mrs N was sitting at the edge of the patio such that we could see eachother's head & shoulders but no more.  She was therefore unaware of my nudity of the lower body.  We chatted away as normal and after a while she happened to lean over and saw most of me.  Whilst she tutted and huffed and moved back so she didn't have to look, she didn't ask me to put my shorts on and carried on the conversation as if nothing had happened (which it hadn't!).     

However, I was rather blatantly sunbathing this morning on the patio after breakfast (Puffed Wheat and All Bran!) and she came out into the garden rather unexpectedly seeing me crotch first arrayed on a sun lounger.  She was pretty furious and made me replace my wrap this time.  She then made a rather determined remark that I would have to give it up when if we move to our new house.  This remark came in the context that we had chosen carefully to have a secluded garden and she was well aware why at the time. 

Hey ho - how the winds of female fickleness do fret and flurry in their fluidity and flighty fitfulness!

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 03, 2015, 06:26:06 PM
Quite the alliteration! Would you think that she is wanting to put an abrupt end to your "antics" but feels a hint of powerlessness in a loosing battle? That drawing that line to end at the new house, when you two move, is merely a spontaneous threat as she experiences her anger? The new home is a symbol of a perfect ending, a place of peace? It is surely irrational to suppose that you would change, or wouldn't continue to evolve at a new house, as if life stops.

Before a move, my mother once attempted to dictate to me that there would be "new rules" at the new place. She then saw that my enthusiasm for the move disappeared, I was loosing my old entrenched happy old place, She never spoke of the new rules again. She knew that I had to adjust for my happiness. It might have been her new beginning, but I had to own my own idea of new beginning and perspective that would be my happiness... Just sayin'...Perhaps that would be useful...expression of diminished enthusiasm as your dreams are not being included. It is not dishonest or gamey, to bring naturism to the fore of your personal reasons to move.

I could feel your enthusiasm in your previous writing about room to stretch and privacy as a MAJOR interest in the move. She, at the time, was on to that, too. I'm sure that you agree each needs his or her individual place and interests, as well as common.
 
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 04, 2015, 08:40:07 PM
Quote from: jbee
The new home is a symbol of a perfect ending, a place of peace? It is surely irrational to suppose that you would change, or wouldn't continue to evolve at a new house

Very well put.  I think she realises that I'm not about to do anything other than extend my SN activity (and it's a concern for her.  She has said that I better keep my naturism secret - she doesn't want others to find out or for me to become known as the 'Village Naturist' a source of universal ridicule....aimed at her!  There's recognition in that prohibition!).  I don't know to this day if she has worked out why I like walking in the woods.  It's a moot point and I wouldn't like to push it.  She is not a fool and can easily put 2 & 2 together so she may realise but say nothing -  but in fact, on balance I think it has not occurred to her that I'd walk naked in, what to her is, a public place.

Quote
your enthusiasm in your previous writing about room to stretch and privacy as a MAJOR interest in the move. She, at the time, was on to that, too. I'm sure that you agree each needs his or her individual place and interests, as well as common

She knows why I've been keen on a secluded garden and a property that's not overlooked through the windows.  We have discussed it perfectly explicitly whilst viewing properties.  'I want a garden or patio', I said quite clearly on more than one occasion, 'that I can get out of bed at dawn and wander out naked or have my morning tea in the sunshine with more freedom and without need for silly scraps of cloth around me'.  Also 'Sorry, I don't care how marvellous this house is, I'm not having any house where I can't walk around naked for your fear that the neighbours might see and I'm not having you cringing in a corner every time you need to take your knickers off.  Not being overlooked is for you as much as me, so that your prejudices about nudity don't become a daily problem in our lives'  Those were pretty close to my words.  At the time she made no comment but no objection either (probably said 'Well that doesn't give you licence to prance around naked all the time' to which I would have acquiesced e.g. ' Tell me I'm not clothed most of the time normally?').  In several gardens she helped me to 'sight' how much they were overlooked.  A couple of times she said stuff like; 'This patio will do for your breakfast'.  She tried to convince me  to buy a house that needed far too much renovation (although it was a spectacular property) with the argument that the garden was the most secluded yet for me to walk in and there was some bordering woodland!  That's in addition to the jacuzzi remarks.  She knows what I'm looking for in future, alright.

In fact, the business of changing house has allowed me to voice my needs for a change and indicate more clearly what it is I would want vis a vis naturism.

I'm not sure if she's swung back from the previously more accommodating place.  Maybe the accommodation was the temporary state!   

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: tanman on August 04, 2015, 10:25:55 PM
Quote from: nuduke
In several gardens she helped me to 'sight' how much they were overlooked.  A couple of times she said stuff like; 'This patio will do for your breakfast'.  She tried to convince me  to buy a house that needed far too much renovation (although it was a spectacular property) with the argument that the garden was the most secluded yet for me to walk in and there was some bordering woodland!

That's fantastic progress when your wife is looking out to HELP you be safely naked!  Somehow, she's learned some SN craft!

Have fun, naked in your new garden!
Larry (tanman in Texas)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 04, 2015, 11:23:37 PM
Quote from: nuduke
In several gardens she helped me to 'sight' how much they were overlooked.  A couple of times she said stuff like; 'This patio will do for your breakfast'.  She tried to convince me  to buy a house that needed far too much renovation (although it was a spectacular property) with the argument that the garden was the most secluded yet for me to walk in and there was some bordering woodland!

That's fantastic progress when your wife is looking out to HELP you be safely naked!  Somehow, she's learned some SN craft!

Have fun, naked in your new garden!
Larry (tanman in Texas)
Unfortunately it looks to me as though she has learned the SN craft in order to oppose it, but I sincerely hope I'm totally wrong.

Good luck with the move, anyway.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 05, 2015, 09:50:20 AM
Well, back to, "Hey ho - how the winds of female fickleness do fret and flurry in their fluidity and flighty fitfulness!"

I predict that you will get what you need, you are more determined and focused than she is. Once there, she'll get used to the behavior that she capitulated to, having lost too much ground. All you gotta do is hold fast, get the dream situation and then find a way to get a jaccuzi. She'll come along to some extent with the hot tub and when she sees all of her fears are for not. You've won. Congratulations. Hold your course while she flip flops.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 05, 2015, 11:40:38 AM
My good friend neighbor is changing. She grieved out her lost husband and then met a guy who also lost his spouse, parallel stories. Previous to that her attitude about our nudity was, "I don't want to see that" moving to " Its okay, but I'd rather not see that and I couldn't ever do that." That changed when she spent a weekend in Safford with us at a party and DF and I among a few others were nude the whole time, but still, "I couldn't do that."

Last Sunday, she confessed to DF that she had to put clothes on when before DF arrived, because she and the new guy are always walking around naked. Then she confessed to skinnydipping regularly in his pool with him. She invited us over to swim, when they get back from vacation, so I asked if we could skinnydip. She said sure, but she probably wouldn't join us in the skin. They would dress when others are around. No telling what will happen with her, but it would seem a certainty that anyone who skinnydips regularly will realize the discomfort of swimming costumes and get more entrenched with nude swimming. Good for them.
What a bit of romance will do....
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: tanman on August 05, 2015, 02:54:41 PM
Quote from: Jbee
What a bit of romance will do....

Ah ... I can vouch for THAT!

Have romantic fun, naked!
Larry (tanman in Texas)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 05, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
Quote from: Jbee
What a bit of romance will do . . .
Ahhh! Billie Holliday popped right into my mind.

This tune, a dynamite version of "What a Little Moonlight Can Do",from 1935 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldwDvw99HHs), which has Benny Goodman, Teddy Wilson and a young Billie! Free swinging jazz from top performers and musicians having fun, before they all became superstars. An absolute delight!

Romance is the great motivator. Jbee, she sounds like a wall about to fall. So far there has been no evidence that the universe came to a halt as a result of a little innocent naked time.

It is also possible the source of her reluctance was her late husband. It really doesn't matter, though, does it?
It's progress.

Duane

P.S. Why there are still people that do not like jazz. is beyond me!
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: milfmog on August 06, 2015, 10:04:23 AM
I don't know to this day if she has worked out why I like walking in the woods.  It's a moot point and I wouldn't like to push it.  She is not a fool and can easily put 2 & 2 together so she may realise but say nothing -  but in fact, on balance I think it has not occurred to her that I'd walk naked in, what to her is, a public place.

This tune, a dynamite version of "What a Little Moonlight Can Do", from 1935 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldwDvw99HHs), which has Benny Goodman, Teddy Wilson and a young Billie! Free swinging jazz from top performers and musicians having fun, before they all became superstars. An absolute delight!

Great stuff! Thank you for that Duane.

However, you also wrote:
Quote
Why there are still people that do not like jazz is beyond me!

My twenty year old son says the same thing to be about rap music (which I remain convinced is correctly spelled with a leading silent C).

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 07, 2015, 08:25:07 PM
Quote
dynamite version of "What a Little Moonlight Can Do

Indeedy!  Thanks for the link!  Being a Benny Goodman fan, picked up from childhood playing my grandma's 78 records and then being somewhat educated in swing Jazz as a teenager by my uncle and inheriting his Jazz cds when he died, it's nice to see that at least one of us, Duane, is as big a musical taste fossil as me! LOL!  :D (I miss the animated laughing out loud emoticon from TSNS!)

John (ex Burgess Shale)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 07, 2015, 09:48:28 PM
I thought everybody loves Billy Holiday, no disinterest in Benny Goodman, or they just haven't been exposed to it. Wasn't there a movie about her? Wasn't Diana Ross "Lady sings the Blues" about a Billie Holiday character?
 What's so unusual? SHe be blues, original soul, emotion expressed in a vocalist's song.

Tonight were going to a local blues extravaganza of several groups and local talented favorites, tomorrow night rhythm and blues.

JAzz without her kind of heart, I find dull. The drum brushes, the go no where, all up in the head, no affect, melancholy stuff, the new jazz, I dislike. I dislike fat ladies singing opera, I am still angry at disco, it sucks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSBQFJRKq8

Everything else, I either can't get enough, or I like some of it, or not too much of it. I have a tendency to identify constructed commercial music and be disinterested, even ripped off by it. That's my personal tastes.

What I'm into changes through time, week to week. Lately, I'm off on Indian classic, some 90's soft rock, ancient local country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kPdEDr7oA

A smattering of punkrock, and anything that pops up on eclectic KXCI radio: https://kxci.org/
Listen Live.

To each his own...I suppose that it's all good.

OOps! TOPeeK!!!uh, I..uh...hmmm? DF loves zydeco, we dance. She can't handle more than three, sometimes two punk rock songs in a row...uh, we dance naked when ever we can...it is somehow much better that way...even punk rock is better naked, apparently...but not more than three songs, Pistols, Rancid, but not Circle Jerks...Not Circle Jerks, not even naked....
Jbee 
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 10, 2015, 01:13:46 AM
Back to topic,

We discussed the jacuzzi thing again today and whilst it's probably a pipe dream (water pipe that is!) Mrs N had been doing some research on swimspas.  I took the opportunity again to say firmly that even if we could afford it, I wasn't interested in purchasing such a thing if she insisted that swim costumes had to be worn.  Quite matter-of-factly she said "No, I wouldn't make you wear trunks if we had our own jacuzzi or swimspa.  In fact I might not even wear swimwear myself - it seems silly, you wouldn't wear one in the bath, would you?.  Woo hoo - is emancipation dawning!  There appears to be some liberalisation of attitude at any rate (see AHG topic).  I do hope so!

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 10, 2015, 09:09:51 AM
If you get one point out the paragraph in the instructions which indicated that clothing tends to upset the chemical levels which kep it clean and safe.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 10, 2015, 06:30:18 PM
It's good to hear of definite progress, John.

Endeavor to persevere.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 10, 2015, 07:01:48 PM
If you get one point out the paragraph in the instructions which indicated that clothing tends to upset the chemical levels which kep it clean and safe.

REally?! How is that, JOhn? Does it explain? I know how clothing upsets my chemical imbalance, but the water, well that's a new one. Sounds like another argument for being naked. Can you inform us, please?
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 10, 2015, 07:10:12 PM
If you get one point out the paragraph in the instructions which indicated that clothing tends to upset the chemical levels which kep it clean and safe.

REally?! How is that, JOhn? Does it explain? I know how clothing upsets my chemical imbalance, but the water, well that's a new one. Sounds like another argument for being naked. Can you inform us, please?
Jbee
I don't know the full details but my son-in-law, who is in no way a nudist, forbids all clothing in their hot tub because it plays the cat and banjo with the chemical balance.
I believe it is something to do with the chemical residues which remain in the garments after washing.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 10, 2015, 08:20:56 PM
Quote
Endeavor to persevere.
Er..is that tautology?

I shall look out for the clothing vs chemical balance thing as we research.  Never mind luxuries like spas! First hurdle is to get the house conveyed  - which is no mean feat given the parless state of the legal profession these days!

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 10, 2015, 08:49:37 PM
It's good to hear of definite progress, John.

Endeavor to persevere.

Duane

Perseverance furthers---From I-Ching, numerous times, ancient wisdom
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 11, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
I've never owned a spa and I wonder at the chance of a bacterial issue. The temperature isn't hot enough to get rid of all the little buggers so chlorine is used for the rest.

I have read articles about the benefits of nudity in relation to the absence of clothes. A prime environment for bacteria are the warm, moist sites on the human body that are also shielded from UV radiation.

Between the UV and the chlorine I guess most bacteria are killed.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: tanman on August 11, 2015, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nuduke
"No, I wouldn't make you wear trunks if we had our own jacuzzi or swimspa.  In fact I might not even wear swimwear myself - it seems silly, you wouldn't wear one in the bath, would you?"

Wow, John!  That IS fantastic progress!!!

Have fun, naked!
Larry (tanman in Texas)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 11, 2015, 05:39:16 PM
It is curious how many people will agree to being nude in a spa but nowhere else.

What is it about spas?

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: tanman on August 11, 2015, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: Duane
Endeavor to persevere

Quote from: John
Er..is that tautology?

No, that's one of my favorite lines by comedian Chief Dan George, in the 1976 classic movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales"!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRX6hSGeZs4

Have fun, naked!
Larry (tanman in Texas)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: tanman on August 11, 2015, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: Duane
What is it about spas?

The bubbles!!!

Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 11, 2015, 07:02:43 PM
Quote from: Duane
What is it about spas?

The bubbles!!!
Spa rule 3 - No farting unless the bubbles are switched on.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 11, 2015, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nuduke
"No, I wouldn't make you wear trunks if we had our own jacuzzi or swimspa.  In fact I might not even wear swimwear myself - it seems silly, you wouldn't wear one in the bath, would you?"

Wow, John!  That IS fantastic progress!!!

Have fun, naked!
Larry (tanman in Texas)

I go out and buy one right now, if I was in your shoes, Nuduke.

There IS something about a spa. When I had mine in my twenties and thirties, literally hundreds of people went through it naked as the years passed, especially after a few drinks, particularly after the bars closed.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 11, 2015, 09:57:10 PM
Quote from: John
Er..is that tautology?

From the meaning of the words, yes. Although it wasn't intended that way. It is from a movie, the one Larry noted, and is from a scene that has always made me laugh. It’s a great little scene most people aren’t even aware of. It is packed with a whole lot of American and Indian history in just a few lines.

Chief Dan George has just gone through the whole litany of tribulations of the American Indian Tribes. They had to deal with the American government's breaking of treaties and the destruction of their culture and life because of the arrival of the Europeans. After being told to ‘endeavor to persevere’, the leaders of the Five Nations meet, talk and think about what they were told. After concluding that they had thought long enough, they decide the most appropriate response was to, “Declare War on the Union”.

All this smack in the middle of the backdrop of the end of the Civil War. It's a little, short history lesson that 'Josey Wales' is learning 1st hand.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 11, 2015, 10:36:12 PM
Quote from: Jbee
Wasn't there a movie about her? Wasn't Diana Ross "Lady sings the Blues" about a Billie Holiday character? What's so unusual? SHe be blues, original soul, emotion expressed in a vocalist's song.

If you've read or know anything about her childhood, her ability as a blues singer is not surprising.

Yeah, that’s the movie about her, but I’m not sure Diana Ross was the best choice. Sarah Vaughn or Carmen McRae come to mind as better choices. But they didn’t ask me when making the movie.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 11, 2015, 11:22:26 PM
I've posted this duplicate here as this is a better place for it - I just posted it in the thread "A Trip to Menorca"
Quote from: Nuduke
I just re-read Duane & jbee's recollections of June 30th of meeting Mrs N last year and noted that they both have positive recollections of her.  I just felt motivated to add that she is indeed a most personable, liberal minded, intelligent person
Quote from: eyesup
I found her to be a lively and engaging personality during the time we spent
Quote from: jbee
She was a lively and open wonderful soul with us, who confided to me that you were the less liberal/experimental of the two.
Good assessments both!  And I make these points to counterweight all the stuff I've talked about relating to her dislike of naturism and issues with me being nude and with herself disliking to be nude and her general dislike of naturism in others.  My moaning and complaining reports of our ongoing debate around my naturism must make her seem like a right miserable old harridan!  Nothing could be further from the truth. 

Just setting the record a bit straighter for next time I report some adverse spousal progress!

John (loving husband) :)

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 12, 2015, 07:57:20 AM
I strongly suspect that if you weren't a kind and loving husband there would have been not problems - you would have done whatever you wanted regardless of whether it made her miserable or not.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 12, 2015, 10:08:39 PM
I strongly suspect that if you weren't a kind and loving husband there would have been not problems - you would have done whatever you wanted regardless of whether it made her miserable or not.

Very perceptive, JOhn.  This is really the heart of the issue - I'm too damn nice!  If I wasn't concerned about her feelings so much I'd have said "like it or lump it"!  She may well have lumped it! :)  But life's not like that is it?  Naturism is but one thing amongst many vying for priority!

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 13, 2015, 07:54:08 PM
My attitude is not always as accommodating. I see a need for boundaries and place for my individual self as well as the partnership. DF has driven this home to me. If I told her that she was making me miserable by doing something that had little of my interest, she would remind me that I am making myself miserable and that is not ultimately her responsibility. I add that she doesn't like to see my discomfort, but realizes that it is not her responsibility, but my stuff.

There are many places to stand on this long continuum and like anyone else, I move around on it. It feels good to give away some of this individuality at times. It is as being of service, when it is in a broader context. It is ones choice.

A relationship is about the shared activities and these often blossom into more. Heh, hee, I repeat, Buy a jet spa as an investment with incredible returns. ;D ;) You are obviously a romantic and she has lost the game already.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 14, 2015, 11:29:00 PM
Quote
You are obviously a romantic and she has lost the game already.
Nice thought!

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 25, 2015, 10:22:33 PM
While M is definitely not a reluctant or difficult partner, being a keen holiday and swim naturist we have had a significant milestone this evening.
She remarked "It's good to see you relaxed enjoying the air naked," which is something that has never happened so positively before.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 27, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
That's really nice to hear, JOhn
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: HairlessNude on August 28, 2015, 03:25:55 PM
My wife was more than reluctant at the beginning.

I had been getting more & more interested in social nudity. Without telling her what I was doing, I booked us on a nude cruise. Holy cow, was she upset with me about that. She said that she wasn't going. I told her fine, but I was going to go either by myself or I'd find someone else to go with me. She didn't like that idea one bit.

I suggested that we go to a clothing optional resort to try getting used to being naked in front of other people. It took a little coaxing, but she agreed to go.

The first time that we went to a clothing optional resort. We arrived & I disrobed to go check in. she remained fully clothed & I didn't pressure her to get naked. The place was kind of run down & we only stayed about 15-20 minutes.

A few weeks later, we went to a different resort that was much nicer. We pulled into the parking lot & got out of the car. I started undressing & looked over at her. To my surprise, she was undressing as fast as I was! She was still self conscious, but we actually had a good time. We met a lot of very friendly people that really helped he to become more comfortable. At the end of the day, when we started to head for home sshe said that she had a good time & would like to go back again! We didn't make it back there that summer, but have been back a few times since then.

We did end up going on the nude cruise & had a fantastic time! As a matter of fact, we had such a good time that we booked the Big Nude Cruise for the following year before we even got off the ship from the first cruise.

She is still reluctant about being nude at home if she thinks there's any chance someone else will see her, but she has sure come a long way. She no longer has any hesitation about getting naked if she feels like it's totally acceptable for the situation.   ;D :D :D
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 29, 2015, 12:23:33 AM
How interesting, HN, that your wife came toward naturism with so little coaxing. There must have always been something there on the back burner, inhibited, that made her join in so readily.  Lucky chap!  How long ago was the event at the nicer CO resort and the nude cruise?

John

Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: HairlessNude on August 31, 2015, 03:03:33 PM
We're still fairly new to the "social nude" scene. The nicer C/O resort event was just last summer & the nude cruise was February of this year. I sure wish that we had discovered how enjoyable social nudity is years ago!
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on September 29, 2015, 03:41:06 AM
Nothing unusual with DF, but my neighbor told us last night at the henge, "Oh you guys would be so proud of us." They have been spending their time nude at home, and skinnydipping in the back yard. Her new boyfriend interjected, "Yea, we've become in home nudist."
He then looked around. The acoustics there are so, that everything said is transferred across and everywhere else...oops.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on September 30, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
We had a bit of hot weather this Saturday and we took the opportunity to sit out in the garden.  I spontaneously stripped to my underpants and went pottering about doing garden jobs with no objection from the wife who was reading on a sunbed (fully clothed!).  Then I lay down on the grass for a rest, prone and took off my pants revealing the manly buttock.  She immediately got up in a huff and went in saying 'if you are going to do that I'm not staying out here'.  I was pretty miffed, that was moral blackmail (and indeed cutting off the proverbial nose to spite the proverbial visage!) although I realised I'd probably surprised her with my sudden complete nudity.  I went in and argued her back outside.  We made an agreement that I would be naked when she was inside and would put my shorts back on when she emerged, provided she didn't get all huffy if she happened to see me naked in the transition.

Shortly later she went into the kitchen to do a few things and so I stripped and sunbathed.  This was lovely by the way - our new garden has soft turf and because there is no danger of being seen, one can relax.  When she came out again (with nice cup of tea!), I put my shorts on in an unhurried way and she stuck to her side of the bargain, no huffing. 

After a few rounds of this including me going inside and demonstratively removing my shorts just before I left the garden and putting them on again when I came out, we had settled down into this more matter of fact modus operandi.

What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on September 30, 2015, 08:09:24 PM

What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

John
A pair of undrpants, sure makes a big difference to my comfort and it is such a small thing.

I'm thinking that this isn't fem-mind, but a skirmish, in a battle of two opposing social practical sensibilities, control and boundaries. She still doesn't like your activity, but is jostling what she will accept.

I'm still thinking that the tub is the key. You add candles, moonlight, dancing out of the tub, and some frisky stuff, then she gets more used to it, seeing it, associates good things with it "together." You get out of the tub and take a break sitting around, maybe next to her, get back in. You could run the garden sprinkler for a while, as you both relax in the tub, she sees you wandering practical in the yard to do the water. She gets used to it, boundaries drop, incrementally.

In the mean time, you can now enjoy your backyard. You are being confident and free.

Do you think that she sees the naked as exposure, naughty, or being nasty instead of the nude? Is it immature, childish to her? What are her negative connotations? Is it self-identity, like, "I'm not one of THOSE!" What are THOSE? Is it the future, is she afraid of where it is heading and trying to whaoh the horses?Where would she fear that it is heading?
Jbee


Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Nightwalker on October 01, 2015, 04:33:55 AM
I guess I've been lucky. My wife was aware that I was a nudist right from the start, thanks to our first romantic getaway when we were 20-somethings, and a severe sunburn I'd got the day before.

In our marriage she was more conservative, so I restrained my nudist activities to indoors, and only when we were alone together. She did eventually accompany me back to the beach, but it was never really "her thing". Like a great many people, I think she saw a nudism as the domain of hedonism.

Oddly enough, it was television that began to change things for us. First, it was the British "Diary of a Teenage Nudist", which sounds hedonistic as hell, but which is actually a serious documentary on nudism in all its various forms in different countries. Then there was the Canadian television series "The Skinny Dip", in which a winsome young hostess travels to various countries around the world in search of people willing to accompany her to the perfect nudist swimming hole. Then there was the American real estate program, "Buying Naked", in which a naturist real estate agent finds homes in a naturist subdivision for naturist couples in Florida. (No, seriously.)

I eventually convinced her to try out an actual Canadian nudist campground/resort. This turned out to be such a lovely (and relatively tame) adventure with such wonderful people from Canada, Britain, the U.S. and Germany, that she instantly wanted to go back. Now she joins me often, nude in our secluded backyard in the city, no longer ashamed of her own body (or mine).

This might be an answer: confront your partner's fears head-on, and let them know that, no, nudism is not the domain of the hedonistic! Too often, I think, this misconception is what is holding them back.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on October 01, 2015, 05:49:12 PM
What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

John

And tomorrow that may change! There are still days where the misses gives me that "look" or comments on my lack of attire. I write it off to her sixth sense or intuition as it is usually one of those "what if someone stops by" or "I'm sure people can see you". Sometime to calm her fears I demonstrate what can be seen (that's where the laser pointed idea came from) or wear the running kilt for awhile. To me open dialogue is the key and talking about a hot tub may help.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on October 02, 2015, 01:14:44 AM
Quote from: jbee
I'm thinking that this isn't fem-mind, but a skirmish, in a battle of two opposing social practical sensibilities, control and boundaries. She still doesn't like your activity, but is jostling what she will accept.
You are very wise.  Her attitude to nudity is complex and coloured by past familial conditioning and an odd but not very positive encounter with naturists in adolescence.  And yes, I think she is torn between accepting that my naturism is benign and being generous and accepting me versus old memories and fear of having to deal with the social consequences of it being known by others.

Quote
I'm still thinking that the tub is the key.

Well, I hope so.  Plans are proceeding but we still need clear costings to see if we can afford the installation as well as the spa itself and are talking to builders and electricians (the damn things need a seperate extra power supply!).  She has somewhat signalled that if we have a private spa it does seem even to her rather unnecessary to be clothed at home when using it and she has been very clear that she will permit me to be naked when I/we use it.  I am hopeful therefore that if it becomes a reality, that a barrier will be crossed into a more permissive era that allows other boundaries to be pushed further away.

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on October 02, 2015, 07:24:07 AM
Quote
I'm still thinking that the tub is the key.

Well, I hope so.  Plans are proceeding but we still need clear costings to see if we can afford the installation as well as the spa itself and are talking to builders and electricians (the damn things need a seperate extra power supply!).  I am hopeful therefore that if it becomes a reality, that a barrier will be crossed into a more permissive era that allows other boundaries to be pushed further away.

John

The boundaries will change dramatically with use and sharing. You get in, get hot, sit or stand out to cool, get back in, relaxing intoxication will bust barriers, on and on.

Its own power supply!!! A spa runs on a 1 1/2 to 2 horsepower motor (not British horses, I suppose). I had a separate box for safety concerns, but just a switch box on mine. To give you an idea, I run a 2 1/2 horse pump from my water tank into my house. It is plugged into a 110 outlet, not 220 (like a clothes dryer), but a 110, wall socket. At most, it only requires an extra breaker, depending how the house is wired. You have different electricity, but that is the basics. Spas come as fiberglass units these days and hook up simply. Everything inclusive and efficient.

I had a gas heater usually used for a 30x40 swimming pool and extra pump on my first. It heated up in minutes from cold, but was not energy efficient. I went to the factory, bought a second that had a small bump on the wall for less than half price. The bump disappeared under the water and lasted over 20 years. Got the fixtures wholesale, a friend helped me plumb it. I sat it on the ground (7ft diameter, 620 gallons). When I moved, a group of friends, a pickup truck and several six-packs got it across town. I dug a hole this time, so it was half way buried, then placed volcanic rock around the ledge at my leisure, raw brick around that, some lattice work. Later, I knocked out a wall, made an addition around it off of the bedroom with french doors. Later still, a framer enclosed it like a green house. Air bubble jets all around and water jets powerful enough to rotisserie on a rubber raft in the sun. They are great to lay in, on a raft, gathering sun in temperature controlled water on a hot day. I suggest putting it in a sunny afternoon spot.


There is other fun. It is fun to sit in the drizzling rain in a hot tub. An enclosed gazebo can be picked up for $100 to $150 and assembled by any intelligent pair of hands and top and/or walls removed at anytime, so there is choice for indoor and outdoor during season changes. When the air freezes, a body steams naked, as if it is smoking on fire and is able to withstand those cold temps in comfort (getting out there from the house is something else, however). There can be Jacuzzi spa to snow wallowing and back, like a good sauna and cold plunge. All of these features are fun sensual naked activities that break down the concept of changing back and forth in and out of clothing and get people out of the tub and into the yard and associated space. Get the drift? She will catch on, piece by piece alone with you. I kept a hose nearby. This practically keeps people from tracking dirt, or lawn clippings into the pool filter, but it quickly becomes a shower, something to cool off with and get back in, a solar heated shower in the sun, or a spray toy, or fake rain fall. They are great conversation pits, when the temp is adjusted just so. In short a place for extended naked time and good nude habits to form. 

If I keep this up, I'll talk myself into another one! Well, a spiritual wood fired sweat house may have to come before that. The verdict on our sweat in the city will probably be decided within the month. 
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on October 02, 2015, 08:18:55 PM
Quote
What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

This also appears in municipal codes. No nudity but if you wear a swimsuit that is little more than, what I saw referred to on another site as "bits of cloth", you are left alone. I hesitate to call them suits. The total area of cloth is less than a handkerchief. It boggles the mind.

. . . . . please be patient while mind is boggling . . . .


I frequently stop trying to figure people out.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on December 19, 2015, 07:27:08 PM
Couple of things,

My wife has lately taken to increased number of baths rather than showers and 2 or 3 times she has perambulated naked from our bedroom to the bathroom with the bath which is down the landing.  This afternoon she stopped to chat at my office (next door to bathroom) albeit holding a towel in front but in a relaxes way and leaving 60% uncovered.  This is generally not her style and so I'm wondering if she's relaxing a bit.  I am certainly spending increasing amounts of time naked around the house (unchallenged) when she is there; although these times tend to be before dressing in the morning and after undressing at night, but not exclusively.  If I'm changing into or out of overalls during the day I can usually get away with a bit of nudity betwixt and between.

Second - we have decided against the spa.  Apart from the cost which was escalating all the time, in the end after considerable discussion we decided that 100gall of warmish water was just too much of a drag.  The amount of work you need to do to keep the water clean and clear and the number of things that go wrong with it, we very rationally concluded that the ration of  pleasure + convenience to cost + inconvenience was in fact a negative one.  So we've ditched that in favour of another project (new kitchen and extended living area).  I actually don't feel bad about it.  The unparalleled potential opportunity for being nude and getting excercise conveniently is, I have to say, disappointing to lose but oddly, after we made the decision (having got mountains of info and practical experience of the things) we both felt a lot better!

So, Sleaford Naturist Swim is my next destination! About 30-40' drive away. It seems to be an active group swimming every 2 weeks on Saturday nights.  Now then...think, think, think up excuse to get to it? 

John
 
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on December 19, 2015, 08:10:08 PM
Oh yes..., forgot the swimspa anecdote:
One of the test runs we went on to try out swimspas was in a firms premises where the unit was in a wooden building with quite large windows both ends.  Unfortunately one end looked directly on to a large roundabout (traffic circle in US) road junction.   Consequently any car passing could theoretically see in to the building (if they went about 10mph scanning with a pair of opera glasses!).  In fact the chances of being seen were remote unless you 'flashed' at the glass doors.  Changing facilities inside were pretty non existent (just chairs).  This threw my wife into an agony of nervousness that the entire motoring population of Lincolnshire were going to get a 'butchers*' of her naked form.  I pooh poohed and told her not to be so silly and be unashamed for once of her beautiful curves... but agreed to stand in front of the glass door holding my coat open during her most vulnerable moments, which seemed to help. (That said, she did not resort to an 'under towel' change.  Maybe she was less nervous than she made out!).  Her tension was palpable until she was in a costume and in the water. Then I changed and had a swim too. The salesman had retired to let us get on with it in private.

When Mrs N had finished she got out to dry and dress and I continued testing the spa (even despite our later decision, they were fun to use!).  Noticing that she was a bit preoccupied with restitution of her womanly attire, coiffeur etc.  I whipped off my trunks and had a bit of a nude swim.  She didn't notice for ages and it was not until I stood up to get out and was demonstratively wringing my trunks before actually getting out that she noticed and gave me 'what for' ("Behave yourself - the salesman could return at any minute!!").  I was determined to point out the uselessness of her anti-nude 'anxiety' so dried myself 'untidily' - rubbed my genitalia vigorously (which oddly didn't cause any comment!) and at one point went up to the (very steamy) windows and said 'Gosh it must be rush hour!' and dropped my towel and apparently 'flashed' the traffic which really got her fuming! (Be assured that I had checked in advance that this was not something that could pass as my first public exposure and indeed I turned away from the window so that if anyone was flying an HDTV drone or looking through a huge telescope, the view would be of my buttocks only, not the marriage furniture?!)  I got 'decent**' quickly and calmed her offended sensibilities making sure to challenge those by getting her to admit that actually nothing bad had happened due to my actually being vigilant to ensure my speedos could go on in an instant and that the steamy windows ensured that nobody could really see anything (I checked from the outside and this was far from true!!! :D ).  I also took her round the roundabout on the way out to prove you couldn't see in.  She claimed you could see in but admitted it was far enough away that one wouldn't be recognisable.

I don't think that excursion had a significant impact on my spouse progress quotient and, unusually for me, I had a bit of impish fun at her expense.  However, the more she gets to share these moments, the more it will sink in that there's nothing to be embarrased about and that my naturism will not evaporate!

John

*butchers = butcher's hook = look (cockney rhyming slang)
**I am aware that this means the opposite to the more correct naturist term; decent to a nudist meaning 'without attire'.  However for narrative verisimilitude I decided thus to construct the syntax.
:)
J
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on December 20, 2015, 06:53:23 PM
Maintaining my spa was never any trouble. I could measure the balance by the color/clarity of the water, I knew when I used it that it would eat at the salts. I placed a small cup of chlorine in and ran it every so often. I filled it with a hose, sometimes not until use. It wasn't on a timer, I just cranked up the heater and pump before use and gave it about 45 minutes. No big deal at all, nothing remotely like maintaining the swimming a pool.

I have a friend who has his hot all of the time. Lots of problems and maintenance.

When I didn't use it as much, it did get mucked up. I'd drain it, and add fresh water. 625 gallons is not much. There was no cover on it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: milfmog on December 21, 2015, 03:06:45 PM
One of my friends has a wood fired hot tub which neatly sidesteps most of the maintenance issues as it can simply be emptied and refilled as required. It is big enough to seat 6 close friends of four with a little more elbow room and takes a couple of hours to fill using the garden hose.

The only downside of this is that it has to be heated from cold when required, which takes about 3 hours of feeding the stove with broken old pallets and similar until it is up to temperature, at which point slower burning logs are better. This means that using the tub has to be planned in advance and cannot be completely spontaneous. However, it is a good solution if you have an adequate supply of old pallets / garden sheds etc and is far cheaper to run than keeping an electrically heated tub up to temperature all the time, in case it is wanted.

Have fun,


Ian.

PS Neither of the couple would self-describe as naturist, however, they generally use the tub properly attired and have planted a screen to minimise the chance of being observed. Although Carole and I have joined them in the tub a couple of times, cozzies were the order of the day :(
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on December 21, 2015, 05:52:46 PM
It does seem to be relatively common for non-naturists to use their own hot tub naked.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on December 21, 2015, 07:53:58 PM
I must not misspeak and mislead. My heater was natural gas and designed to heat a 30x40 ft. swimming pool. With a two horsepower pump the water heated very quickly. It could be freezing and the tub would be warm in a relatively shirt time, then we would stand outside laughing as the smoke-like steam came from our bodies. The pump created a mild vortex in the round tub, which would rotisserie my water raft as I sunbathed without the heater on. It didn't need to run much, the salts, chlorine would distribute pretty quickly when I occasionally over did it, the heater would correct the problem if need be. Maintenance wasn't an issue.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on December 24, 2015, 03:58:35 PM
Although it is not a search done in a "has to be done " mode we have been looking at houses that could fit our needs in the future. One we looked at the other day consisted of an acre and a half with much of the back yard surrounded by a six foot fence. In other words paradise to me however it had an in ground pool and the wife has her reservations about upkeep. As we toured the house and grounds all I could think of is lounging on a float, naked in the sun! Anyway, since we do travel I guess a pool would be a waste at this time. But I did put a large fenced in area onto the list of must haves!
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Kayaker on February 19, 2016, 04:38:19 AM
It's good to hear of definite progress, John.

Endeavor to persevere.

Duane


Hah!!, chief Dan george ... outlaw josey Wales
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on February 19, 2016, 07:36:23 PM
A, I didn't catch that! I have endeavored to dedicate at least one day of my life watching Outlaw Josey Wales. I'm sure that I've used up better than half of that, so far. It has been a coupe of years, about time for another watch. Gotta love it. It is very possible to sneak up on me when I'm focused on that flick.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on February 19, 2016, 10:46:20 PM
Lisa,
What are you talking about?!  Not a reference that I can grasp either!

Re Hot tubs - your anecdotes about how 'easy' it is/was to maintain/heat/fill/balance/drain/chop wood for/buy gas/spot bacterial blooms (cloudy) in/wait for heat with etc etc etc, makes my case for deciding against the bigger swimspa version!!  Too much messing about. 

I did see an inflatable one in a store the other day and looked slightly wistfully upon it...but equally, realised that we had made the right decision!
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Kayaker on February 20, 2016, 12:00:25 AM
"I did see an inflatable one in a store the other day and looked slightly wistfully upon it..."

John, We have a couple of the inflatables and love them.  I've always liked a hot water/cold water outside more than a bathtub,  and these are awesome.  The chemical balance isn't hard at all. We don't use the bubbler much as it detracts from the heat but they are okay for an inflatable.  They tolerate the outdoor environment pretty good.  We take one camping and set it up in a tent for privacy. We can even put two floats side by side for a nice warm heat and at night by a fire under the stars is... Well, awesome.  Okay that's two times for awesomeness but it's just that.

I find I have to be in hot water daily or I don't function very well...
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: naked pedro on February 20, 2016, 01:12:10 PM
Must say, I had an inflatable hot tub in my back garden a couple of years ago, in Scotland.
It was lovely, using it on a daily basis. The maintenance was not unduly arduous, testing the acidity etc, but the biggest downer was the cast of heating. We practically doubled our electricity bill for the period we had it going.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on February 20, 2016, 08:45:57 PM
Okay, Kayaker, ya got me going, intrigued, creative juices are flowing. Where does the water come from and the heat? Generator on the back of your camper? Pump and hose from stream or lake? Something somehow else? Sparks from fire? DF and I gotta know! Two rafts! What are the dimensions? Got Pics?
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Kayaker on February 21, 2016, 03:43:47 PM
Pedro and JBEE,

We love these little tubs.  We have a third above ground pool that supports itself with the weight of the water which serves as the cool pool and is the primary pool during summer.  Then we have the hot pool (inflatable) which is a few feet away, and we dip from one to the other.  Larry built a cool windscreen which tucks up around the hot pool to brace against winter winds, and works nicely during rain showers as a semi cover.  We sit in the tub during the misty rains and sometimes harder rains which is quite exhilarating.

The two tub arrangement is on a concrete pad down in the back pasture clearing, what we call the Nest Spa and CO resort as I've had a bit of fun with tropical decor and themes using sound.   We set up the "spa" for a lazy day of lounging in the waters and listening to the birds and various music playlists for a virtual trip to the jungle, the Caribbean, the Mediterranean, or a rowdier Hagar-ish Baja freestyle flashback from the 60's to current alternative electronic.  We stay there all day and night during summers for one of the weekend days as a rest day.  It's quite a rig.

JBee, the little tub comes with a heater attachment that circulates the water once you fill the tub.  It takes about 24 hours or so to get to max heat which is 104F.  There is a cover which keeps the heat in while you're out of the pool and you can leave it on to maintain a desired setpoint or shut it off for storage inbetween sessions and just ramp up again to desired temp.

Now we are a bit unconventional in that we create "hot shots" using a separate heater system.  Larry spent all day working on a splice system with a real spa heater into the bigger cold pool.  The big pool is only 10 feet round.  For the last two years we've had a water heater hose to drop in for hot shots in the little tub (6 ft round) as I like a hot temp of 110F and cold pool contrast.

If I can figure out how to upload pics I will show you the setup.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Kayaker on February 21, 2016, 04:14:43 PM
Now for the description of the tent application and portable inflatable hot tub.

We take frequent trips to the beach and occasional longer trips to woodland camping and lakes for a kayaking/camping trip. If we are going to be there for at least a week, in the last couple of years we would take a tub and tent. The tent is slightly larger than the tub base about 9ft and has several zipscreens for airflow.  There's just enough room for a little folding camp table inside.

Location does matter for positioning and wind protection.  The beach setup is harder but because of wind forces.  JBee we aren't camping directly on the beach with the tub, although we do beach camp occasionally.  Lately we've been fortunate to have several weeks' condo camping in our timeshare directly on the beach.   That's not exactly roughing it, but there's no hot tub there, and we enjoy walking the beach early and late and a nice hot tub in the evening and early morning.  Just walk down the stairs au naturale into the privacy of ones own.... Tent spa.   I enjoy Old Rasputin Russian imperial stouts and he likes Boston Black chocolate warmed to tub temps. Couple that with yummy snacks and a little sound cube and appropriate playlist for the weather and you have the experience of luxury spa or exciting hurricane.

At the beach the tent was positioned at the base of the private stairs up to the condo, on the parking pad.  A regular water hose to fill, although setup was unfortunately fairly excruciating for the Tanman due to the challenges of inflation... but he likes the idea more than the backache, and we sit in the tub at all hours.  It makes for a great craft beer warmer too.  The only problem with beach is that the last three times we setup for the week we had storms and gale force winds, which is quite hard on the tent.

In the campgrounds we set up the tent like a regular tent with the tub inside, and hook up to a water source with a hose.  In both scenarios the hardest part is draining which takes several hours (like draining a fish tank) when inside a tent as opposed to open plug wash on the outdoor pad at the Nest.

Since I am such a water baby these variations on water bathing are actually quite important to my psyche.  There is a very cool place in Colorado (naturist area) that is a special place for us that has several high altitude natural pools.  He took me there on one if our first trips and I was totally hooked. It has almost everything I enjoy, (no large water for kayaking) but high vistas and geology and caves and hot pools and awesome night sky and remoteness and interesting history from mining eras.   It's a challenging hike up the mountain but then a series of pools at different heights from top to bottom.  We have been there in winter and summer.  Again pics to post when I know how to do that here.  That location and Lake Ouichita are my faves.   
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on February 22, 2016, 05:33:49 PM

Since I am such a water baby these variations on water bathing are actually quite important to my psyche.  There is a very cool place in Colorado (naturist area) that is a special place for us that has several high altitude natural pools.  He took me there on one if our first trips and I was totally hooked. It has almost everything I enjoy, (no large water for kayaking) but high vistas and geology and caves and hot pools and awesome night sky and remoteness and interesting history from mining eras.   It's a challenging hike up the mountain but then a series of pools at different heights from top to bottom.  We have been there in winter and summer.  Again pics to post when I know how to do that here.  That location and Lake Ouichita are my faves.   

Orient Trust?
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Kayaker on February 25, 2016, 12:37:07 PM
Yes JBee and the bats too :)))
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Bob Knows on February 26, 2016, 03:17:49 PM
When I lived in New Mexico I frequented Orient Land Trust often, called Valley View Hot Springs in those days.  One time I hiked all the way to the top of the mountain, all naked of course.  Sometimes I was the only person who spent all day naked.  So many would only go naked in the pools.   

Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Kayaker on February 28, 2016, 09:48:48 PM
I like it there.  We camp as far from the crowd as we can get and hike the trails on the ridges and up the mountain.  I had an interesting experience with snakes in one of the pools though.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on March 08, 2016, 12:55:18 PM
Fascinating, Lisa

From the first mention of the spa pools, I had visions of you two carrying huge quantities of camping gear hither and yon including pools, pumps, tents, chemicals and all.  Your description clarifies.  It's all fairly civilised really!  I'd love to see a picture or two.  You gotta do some homework on photo posting (in fact so should I, because this summer there's going to be photos to post, oh yes!!).

I have mentioned before that I'm not a great spa pool fan, mainly due to the enforced inactivity.  Maybe I've got a hyperactivity psychological tendency but I just get bored sitting and doing nothing.  True it is that I am a fairly experienced devotee of sitting or indeed lying in bed!  But there, the brain is always occupied with reading or researching by computer activity, emails, TV or conversation with the wife who is similarly a black belt of bodily repose!  But of those times I have sat in a spa, one is restricted from a lot of that stuff due to the watery circumstances.  Nothing better for a cellphone or a book than to be dropped into mildly chlorinated hot water!! :D

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Davie on March 08, 2016, 01:08:37 PM
We are just back from a BN weekend in Blackpool. On the Saturday evening we went off to Sandcastles water park. To start with I hurled myself down black chutes and rode through rapids and down what may only be described as a giant plug hole! All great fun but also located in the complex was a spa area with several steam rooms - sea salt, the ordinary type and an aromatherapy one, plus a sauna and hot beds. This meant a perfect evening of high scale activity followed by a relaxed spa experience.

It was good to see a good number of women enjoying the weekend. From conversations with some of them most would say they were reluctant at one time. Given time many take up the life-style, many with gusto. Show them and tell the good side of naturism, but don't force them. Softly softly catchee monkee. It worked with Mrs Davie. Be warned - once they take it up, they really take it up and you may have to catch up! Good luck to all of you with reluctant partners.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on March 08, 2016, 04:07:59 PM
<snip>
Nothing better for a cellphone or a book than to be dropped into mildly chlorinated hot water!! :D

John
I bought myself a waterproof e-reader for just such an event and my son-in-law has a watertight cover for his.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on March 08, 2016, 07:21:34 PM

We are just back from a BN weekend in Blackpool. On the Saturday evening we went off to Sandcastles water park. To start with I hurled myself down black chutes and rode through rapids and down what may only be described as a giant plug hole! All great fun but also located in the complex was a spa area with several steam rooms - sea salt, the ordinary type and an aromatherapy one, plus a sauna and hot beds. This meant a perfect evening of high scale activity followed by a relaxed spa experience.

It was good to see a good number of women enjoying the weekend. From conversations with some of them most would say they were reluctant at one time. Given time many take up the life-style, many with gusto. Show them and tell the good side of naturism, but don't force them. Softly softly catchee monkee. It worked with Mrs Davie. Be warned - once they take it up, they really take it up and you may have to catch up! Good luck to all of you with reluctant partners.

Davie  8)
A luxuriating spa, brings them in to it, then the trap springs as they realize that the appropriate outfit, is in the nude! They are snared in no time. especially when they see other women at it. Davie, you Willey Coyote! Context and peer influence.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on March 24, 2016, 04:25:01 PM
It reminds me of a time in Phoenix; it was just after Labor Day and we were staying in a swanky resort. Being extremely hot it was decided that we would take a late night refreshing swim in one of the secluded hillside pools. Being alone it did not take too much encouragement to get the misses to join in skinnydipping. Alone there is no problem but social nudity is still a no go.

However, being that we have a rather large SUV a group of ladies (including the misses) asked if I would be their chauffeur to a luncheon as they could ride as a gang, drink at the bar, not worry about spring break traffic and talk. Driving through the small beach communities remarks were made concerning young girls walking to the beach in thongs, guys with their underware sticking out of their board shorts and a few women that one lady felt shouldn't wear a bikini. When asked my opinion before I could answer my wife said he could care less if they were naked. So began the discussion as to why Americans are so hung up on nudity. Other than the woman who made the remark my wife and I were the only other Americans. The rest of the group consisted of a Canadian who has spent much time in Europe as a military wife, an English woman, one from Germany and a French woman who married a Canadian. As the conversation progressed (and I mostly listened) it became obvious that although all but the German and myself would have no problem being nude only the American would be against it for everyone else!

The conversation on the way home was as interesting when it became political. I won't go into details here but it was an interesting take as to how they view their politicians.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on March 24, 2016, 04:59:31 PM
Did any insight, or novel hypothesis as to "why Americans are so hung up on nudity" appear?
Were Americans accepted in their tendency toward impositions on others, or was there any disdain, or some laughter toward them, or....?
Did the foreigners find your positivism about nudity un-American-like?
Are you, and/or the German outed to your wife's girlfriends?

Thongs...I've always found the concept of a thong, which barely covers the line of a waist belt, being less risque than a g-string kinda goofy. Maybe they don't get twisted as easily as strings do. What's the point of te extra material?
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on March 24, 2016, 10:28:46 PM
Wearing such a skimpy garment is something that is best done as the sun sets...
Cue music...
"Just a Thong at Twilight............"

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on March 25, 2016, 12:02:46 AM
Wearing such a skimpy garment is something that is best done as the sun sets...
Cue music...
"Just a Thong at Twilight............"

John
Groan.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on March 25, 2016, 01:55:53 PM
Insights Jbee? Plenty of them from the Puritan upbringing to televangelists warping American minds. We went through the whole gambit of European to American attitudes starting with nudity and ending with obesity. It was a shame we arrived at the restaurant when we did as we had just started our nude at home discussion. Before that it was generally accepted that the German lady and myself would find being naked on the beach preferable to a suit or costume. The others including my misses said they couldn't be nude but may consider topless; but have no problem with others being nude. The other American stood her ground with the usual arguments (like what about the children) but was shut down by the others.

As for being outed; there is a kind of unwritten rule here that if you are accepting of company leave your main door open and just the storm door is closed. We don't have that many walking our level but we have been asked at times why is your door closed? We have admitted to the fact that since we sleep nude there is a preference to stay that way until we dress for the days activities. So there are at least seven people who we have been outed to by ourselves.

Yesterday's beach day was interesting to say the least. I found a section frequented by more Europeans and older age group that are not hung up on body stereotypes. For some reason a man shows up with two kids in tow. He was followed by his wife in a full head to toe covering. After settling in I heard the young daughter ask "Mommy, where is your swimsuit?". I never heard the answer but had to wonder why the man brought his family to this section of beach? Other than the fact without any children nearby that would reduce interaction.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on March 27, 2016, 08:45:34 PM
Interesting occurrence this afternoon.
I had bought my wife a few little gifts for Mothers Day including, as hinted, a jigsaw!  We haven't done one for years - we have done maybe 4-6 since 1986.  I am specific with the date as she first started doing them as a 'fancy' during first pregnancy.  I trust her whimsy to do another recently doesn't mean anything!!!

Anyway, today being a quiet day having been dashing around the country yesterday, she decided to make a start on this jigsaw (Windsor Castle 1000 piece).
Needless to say as she progressed, I got sucked in.  Y'know....you are passing by and see a side bit and try to match it up and before you know where you are an hour has passed!  We stopped for a nice lunch  and then she returned to the table and after a few chores (What chores?  I'll have a gin & tonic!) I re-joined her for a bit more puzzling but soon got bored and feeling the need to be naked. 

I was only wearing 2 garments so, sitting at the table I slowly slid my shorts off under the table as I fitted pieces with my other hand.  As her concentration grew I simply slipped off my shirt - she was sitting not 3 feet away and didn't notice!  I continued jigsawing naked, bobbing up and down to get a piece here and there and she just didn't notice in her intense concentration on the puzzle.  Eventually after a few minutes I stood and started walking round the table looking (ostensibly!) for a piece I wanted.  I was bollock naked and she could not have failed to have noticed.  But unusually she said nothing at all apart from odd little normal remarks on e.g. where the next piece might be!  I averred boredom with the recreation and walked back along the room, collected my clothes, waved them around a bit and told her I was off to my study to do other stuff.  Still no recognition of my nudity.  So I popped off and fired up my PC to report this to you guys.  In a short time, I will go back to her naked as I have left my phone on the table there and see what transpires - tune in soon for the next exciting instalment. :D

John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Davie on March 28, 2016, 12:00:25 AM
I hate jigsaws!  - That's what I tell Mrs D, yet I spent a happy afternoon doing part of her jigsaw. She's having a bit of trouble seeing at the moment having had a cataract op and her current specs are no longer the right prescription. ..  and the clothes were off

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on March 28, 2016, 04:02:35 PM
I agree with you Davie; I would never begin one myself but cannot resist the temptation to fill in a few pieces when passing by the table. My misses would not be naked as she complains she gets cold just sitting still. Now to wait on the next exciting installment of Nuduke!
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on March 28, 2016, 07:08:15 PM
Wow, that is concentration, focus!

Last year, DF dug out a few that she had had for decades that she had bought when they were old. Smack in the middle of her livingroom on the card table, I couldn't avoid the damn things, getting sucked in several times. They were done as nude of course. At De Anza Resort, she fell into one in the activity/TV room. There can often be found several naked people there, strangers, completely lost in these joint projects.

One thing that I enjoy when the devil takes over, is to walk up when someone is stuck and quickly pop in a few pieces, then walk away. ::)
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on March 28, 2016, 07:17:29 PM
Well, episode 2 was hilarious.  About half an hour later I went downstairs again as I had some stuff to discuss.  I was still naked and I got her tut tutting as usual.  After donning a garment, and after some further conversation I asked her why she had not done her usual disapproving performance when I was naked earlier on.  "Were you?" she asked.  I described the whole session as per below. Although I am sure she looked up several times from the jigsaw, she said she just hadn't noticed due to her concentration on the puzzle.  I can believe this - very tenacious with all manner of tasks, my wife.  I asked her if she really hadn't noticed and she averred quite sincerely that she hadn't.  Damn!  I thought I'd got away with a bit of spousal progress... but I was invisible it turns out! 
   [Cut to the Nuduke House]
   John: "So, darling, it's come to this...is it me or the jigsaw?"
   [Wife looks up / dramatic full close up - she is obviously in two minds - Cue soap opera theme tune ]
   [News and Weather]
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on March 28, 2016, 07:35:26 PM
People so focused as to render us invisible! As they drive their cars, raking lawns, watching games on TV, movie theaters and talkative hikers dodging rocks. This makes me think what else could we be missing as we mind our own business.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on March 28, 2016, 09:50:58 PM
You have reminded me of the famous invisible gorilla video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on March 31, 2016, 03:48:12 AM
I wish you did not mention the gorilla but then lost count. It does go to prove a point; people are so wrapped up in their own thoughts they miss the naked guy standing beside them!
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on March 31, 2016, 11:29:13 PM
Generally, men more than women. I remember the study comparing. Men and women were left in a room with a pile of objects on a desk. The women saw it and remembered all, the men remembered/noticed very little. Better focus, gave loss of bigger detailed picture.

Then there are those of us which are so wrapped up in our heads that the immediate awareness dissipates.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on April 10, 2016, 05:51:56 PM
Last night was one of those go figure moments. If you have been following me on any site you know that my wife, although she seldom joins me, has never mentioned having a problem with my nude adventures. In fact she has enjoyed the stories and pictures that I often share after dinner over a glass of wine.

My adventures lately have involved kayaking to small islands to enjoy sun and fun. So imagine my surprise when telling her of efforts to establish a nude beach she said "Its too beautiful for that". I did explain that it was not the whole beach and the place is big enough for a section to be set aside. The conversation changed some almost to the point of being accusatory that there were other motives for me to support such a thing as a nude beach. Anyway, I wrote it off as the wine talking and a little bit of the fact that health reasons prevent her from accompanying me. Retail therapy and dinner out may change the mood. But then this morning she tells her sister to call before stopping over so we can get dressed.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on April 14, 2016, 12:11:16 AM
We're still doing the jigsaw!  It's a toughie!
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: John P on April 14, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
We found a jigsaw puzzle in the flat when we arrived, probably left by a previous occupant. Having some time to spare in the evenings, we gave it a try, but we found that lots of the pieces were almost but not quite the same shape, and many of them had similar print. Thus it was difficult to know whether a piece was in the right place or not, but fortunately the correct assembly tool was within reach:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28291527/DSCF3595.JPG

(Change title to " reluctant and difficult jigsaws"...)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Davie on April 14, 2016, 01:05:11 PM
I think two pieces are still in the wrong place!!

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on April 14, 2016, 05:30:25 PM
There was once one with all the same shapes. It was black and white drawings of little tiny naked people all lined up in numerous lines, each a different personality. There we sat, seemingly endless nights, cluttered in the livingroom, friends helping, weeks went by, six pack after six-pack, it consumed our lives...until one day, it was done. My wife had acquired a backing and some glossy clear sealer to encase the monster, never to suck the life out of anyone again. It was to be put on a wall as a trophy (okay the little people were very very  fun), but in the end, it represented all of the effort, consumption and endless obsession. It was hidden in a closet, a tome to bee brought out for a few minutes after discovery and then put away. There were no more jigsaw puzzles for many many years.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on July 29, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
Quote from: JohnP
. . . fortunately the correct assembly tool was within reach:

Ahh! The mantra of the beginning handyman!

If it don't fit, get a bigger hammer!

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Bob Knows on August 03, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
My sister in law has been visiting. Its because my MIL is dying from cancer. MIL has some weeks or maybe a couple of months. Sister in law visited for a week. I am normally naked around the house all summer, but I am a gracious host and cover up for guests.  My wife is not naked even though she would accompany me naked when we first got together.  Now wife says she doesn't like it.  Perhaps she thinks she looks too old. Wife doesn't complain about me being naked.

After SIL had been here a week, and MIL hadn't died yet, SIL announced she would go home, arrange some stuff, and then come back here indefinitely until MIL dies. Could be months.

So before she left I told SIL that I've been making accommodations for a guest, but someone staying for weeks is joining the household so my polite guest accommodations no longer will apply. I told her that I will go back to being naked around and about the house when she returns. To my surprise she said she will have no problem with me being naked. Then she left. I'm back to being naked. When she returns I will remain naked at home.

Summer is short in these parts. I'm not going to wast it all on an extended visitor. Carpe Diem.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 03, 2016, 06:22:41 PM
You make it sound so straight forward simple. In the actual discussion, were you applying your silver tongue skills? What ground work was to be had before this conversation? You didn't just drop the bomb on her out of the blue, did you? Was she aware of your proclivity before this? Was there family dynamic? Was there an understood value of my castle and you are a visitor before this? My house, My rules? Does she have any background in being around naked people, especially family members?

DF has family who like naturist activity, but to be naked with her cousin after all of those years, is apparently, too weird for her. Sometimes, being nude with relatives is discombobulating. So, SIL needs a place to stay and give/get family support, during this rough time. She must be there and it is imperative to her. She has no choice, but how will she actually adopt to the naked BIL in the room. She'll get used to it, keep any negative opinion to herself, but initially, how would that go? She just said, "I'll have no problem with that."? It appears that you'll just greet her nude and stay that way when she returns. Are you close, like friends?

I'm sure to be making too much of this, but one more thing. What will your wife make of this? No problem, too?

I guess what I'm saying is, "Dang that was amazingly simple! How cuuld it be so amazingly simple?"
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Bob Knows on August 03, 2016, 06:52:42 PM
I started the conversation saying that I make accommodations for guests, but someone who stays for weeks is more of a resident than a guest.  I said that If she wants to be a resident then I expect to live my regular life, which includes casual nakedness. 

I do have a sign in my dining room "Please take off your clothes."   She mentioned seeing the sign when she agreed to my demand.  I don't know that she has any nudist experience.  She belongs to the Scientology church.  I don't know what their beliefs are about naked bodies.  SIL has had a couple of husbands and raised a son, so she won't see anything she hasn't seen many times before. 

Actually the discussion was less difficult than I expected.  She agreed to my nudity without seeming hesitation or argument.  We'll see how she does in a couple of weeks when she returns and I'm wandering around the house naked. 

Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 03, 2016, 07:16:14 PM
Please, keep us abreast of the haps.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: ric on August 06, 2016, 11:00:11 PM
Were on day 3 of a week in fuerteventura, staying in a sea front hotel in a wee village on the south coast. The beech here is pebbles and black sand and well used by the locals.
Day 1 we looked at a few sandy beaches along the coast, but there's some wind boarding competition on so there's a lot of people about.. day 2 we found the beach for the rest of the week, lots of sand good mix of textiles and naturists, Mrs was happy to sunbathe but insisted on wearing a loose top to go in the water.
This mornning we arrived on the beach a tad after 9 am, only 3 cars in the carpark, cwe plonked ourselves down in our favour it spot, couple of other people in the distance, managed to persuaded the other half to walk across the sand to the water without the top.  By the time we left at 1 pm wed neither of us worn anything, except me occasionally putting my glasses on.
Our hotel room has a balcony, there's just enough shade in the afternoon to get two sunbeds in the shade, a couple ofshairs block the view from the well uused beach front promenade,  well almost, today I didn't get any grumbles even when I got up to go in to the toilet, we both spent most of the afternoon naked on the loungers till dinner time.  I'm not sure if we were noticed by any people on the promenade or not, but it was warm enough to stifle any worries fro the other half.
The next few days look like being the same format as today,  we've made big steps with the wife's self confidence today,
 Next step has to be a naked walk along the beach
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: JOhnGw on August 07, 2016, 12:10:13 AM
Great news, Ric.
Softly softly catchee monkey.  :D
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 09, 2016, 07:18:31 PM
Sounds like good progress on the Bob and ric fronts.

Things are looking up!

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: ric on August 09, 2016, 07:38:41 PM
Things have gone well this week, now got to walking along the beach naked when we get there with only one other car in the carpark , but carrying a sarong later to throw round the, waist when encountering people,  its the perceived size of tummy that's the problem.
Even got allowed to get the camera out this morning, though I expect a lot will get deleted after I've downloaded them to the laptop.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: milfmog on August 15, 2017, 02:41:36 PM
After my apparent absence from the forum, for which I have been duly chastised by Mr Nuduke, I guess it is time that I provided an update on acceptance at home.

Those with long memories will remember the reports I wrote a couple of years ago (can it really be that long?) of the holiday Carole and I had in Menorca. I managed to spend a great deal of time properly dressed during that holiday without much push back from The Boss. When we got home I made a conscious decision to try to maintain the amount of time I spent undressed and see how things went. I was a little circumspect, keep out of sight of the neighbours, don’t open the front door naked etc, no point in looking for grief and things all went pretty well. I got an occasional reminder that I was stepping outside the boundaries of everyday convention, but little more.

I was particularly amused one day when Carole opened the blinds in our lounge without warning. Our lounge window is directly opposite one of the neighbour’s windows and Carole did not bat an eyelid at me being naked in plain view of the window next door. I complained, on the basis that showing concern for the opinions of the Old Girl who lived there would be good for my credibility and got “Oh! I’ve become so used to you being naked, I did not notice”. Result!

Over the next year or so I continued to stay undressed until I had to go out and on coming home from work a shower then not dressing until it was time to eat became fairly common. I had to be a little circumspect as our son (22 years old) is still living at home, he does not care, but I did not want to cause ructions with his 19 year old girlfriend. She has caught glimpses of me naked a couple of times without any reaction from her beyond laughing about it with the lad. However, I was very conscious that Carole would probably take a dim view of me being naked about the place when she was there.

Over time, Carole became more relaxed with me being naked, even when Natalia was around, so long as I don’t make it blatant. So cleaning the kitchen and getting breakfast naked is OK as Nat very rarely comes into the kitchen in the mornings (she is not a morning person, preferring to get up as late as possible consistent with getting to work on time).

We lost my mother a couple of years ago to liver cancer; she had been given three months three and a half years earlier, so it was not really a surprise. I tell you this because, during one of the last conversations I had with her, she commented that “there should be enough left in the kitty to build the sauna you’ve always wanted” once we sorted out the estate. Last year I got to the point where that became a possibility and we set about demolishing the old, pre-fabricated concrete garage in the back garden. It was too small for a modern car anyway 9i could get the car in but would never have been able to get out afterwards and anyway the access down the side of the house is narrow enough that sooner or later I was bound to wipe the side of the car on the masonry.

I extended the concrete slab by four feet and then designed and ordered a custom shed, twenty feet by eight feet, to go where the garage had been. The shed was erected in January and a local electrician employed to run the cables and connect them up. I already had a suitable power feed from the house but UK legislation now prohibits amateurs from pretty much anything other than renewing / repairing existing installations. Given that this was a new build and I wanted to put a sauna in it, I decided to follow the letter of the law rather than have a difficult conversation with the insurance companies should something unfortunate happen. (I regret this as the only problems I have had with the sauna were both due to bad workmanship by the electrician, errors I would not have made myself.)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4438/35750183934_83a7123270.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4438/35750183934_b1d4fdb482_o.jpg)

Once the initial wiring was in place I ordered a load of insulation and tongue and groove boarding and set about lining the shed to make it a more comfortable place to be and a lot smarter to look at. The picture below shows the shed when the internal lining was about half done. Naturally, all the work in the shed was done while properly dressed.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4380/35750184184_ca72332860.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4380/35750184184_bb7643da7f_o.jpg)

The windows face across the garden towards the old girl’s place next door. She’s 90 years old and has undoubtedly glimpsed me naked a few times, but I have never had any reaction from her and she did not say anything to Carole. Once the shed was finished and three coats of varnish applied I started on the sauna cabin. That kept me going for a couple more weeks. We had one unplanned visit from a friend who walked into the back garden while I was working naked. (Brave of her, she does not know Beauty that well…). I dressed but she cannot have failed to see that I was working naked; again no reaction and nothing said. Amazingly, no reaction from Carole either. (Beauty just barked and then wagged her tail and waited for an ear rub; useless as a guard dog.)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4411/35750184324_6947033108.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4411/35750184324_36db2068a9_o.jpg)

(Since this was taken I have covered the blue control box. The white box halfway up the left is a double dimmer switch, for the lights in the ceiling and under the bench)

The sauna is now in regular use, not as big as JB’s sweat nor in such communal use, but proving very sociable within the family. Carole and I try to make a point of using it twice a week and spend a couple of hours heating and cooling and just chatting. Simply talking to one another is almost a novelty; we had developed a habit of doing things in the same space but not necessarily together. We would both sit and read or I’d attend to my post while Carole was sewing… You get the picture.

 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4407/35750183704_0d5e48aac3.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4407/35750183704_23cf5f92dd_o.jpg)


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4442/35750183424_eb30510a79.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4442/35750183424_f823e5b468_o.jpg)


The best bit? Carole has worked out the best way to dress for the sauna. She only wears a towel or swimsuit if there is a likelihood that Malcolm or Nat will be joining us. Generally though, I think the idea of a couple of old wrinklies in the sauna is enough to put them off and they have only joined us once, preferring to use it when we are not around. Adding to my joy, I do not get disapproving looks when I decide to sit on the patio to cool down rather than staying inside. (This may change, at present the house downhill of us is empty as the old girl has moved in with her older sister to look after her. The house is now on the market but is still empty with little interest being shown in it as it is overpriced considering how much modernisation is needed. Long may it remain so, I am quite happy to cut the lawns for her in exchange for the additional privacy.)

So, when we add in Carole’s decision to send me off on a British Naturism group holiday (cruising the Croatian coast) I reckon we are now approaching full acceptance of my naturist habits. Next target: get Carole to sit naked in the garden to cool down after a sauna. Probably not this week but I’m working on it :D.

For those still struggling to gain acceptance, this is further evidence of how Larry’s principle of incrementalism coupled with JB’s concepts of appropriate time and place can really work. Fingers crossed John, there may be hope for you yet…

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: Davie on August 15, 2017, 03:11:16 PM
Incrementalism works. Softly softly catchee monkee. Mrs D accepted I liked being naked, then didn't make a fuss when we "happened" upon a naturist camp site. That was Tything Barn. (She remained clothed as it was cold) She has since said she new I'd fixed it! I then joined a swim.  That caused a problem, not because of the naturism but it was a Saturday evening. Eventually she said she'd join me in coming to the swim. She does and is now on the committee. I wouldn't say she was a hardcore naturist. 5-6 on the scale out of 10. I'd be 8 and pushing 9. Those at 10 I think push the boundaries, sometimes to the detriment of others but they have their place.

I love the sauna. Mine's in the garage and only small but I love it being a fully functional Finnish sauna.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nudewalker on August 15, 2017, 05:07:13 PM
Without getting into details there are valid reasons the wife does not join me in mt activities. Any push back on her part is the fact that I may be caught and arrested for my free range activities. But on the positive side, she does accept my desire to explore all things nude, and does know what a great mood elevator it is for me. As much as I would like to camp like Jbee and DF there are limitations as to which the wife can handle heat so an electrical hookup for A/C is a must. So I carefully study Google maps and plan for free range adventures at those places we visit. Some of our standby favorites I already know where and how to enjoy nudity. Anyway guys, keep moving toward your goal and post results as I'm sure there are others who have hope for change with their spouses.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 15, 2017, 05:28:29 PM
Ian, you may not have been active here, but you certainly were active at home. Good news to hear and great news for us that there is hope to get our mates to join us.

The sauna looks great and is a good example of how all you need is an excuse to do something that can be done naked and you can make progress.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 15, 2017, 10:17:41 PM
Yep, yep, yep!!! Who...rah!

So, Ian, are those slats stuck in place, or removable for cleaning. We, of course, have sand, etc. and have to hose and sweep. I'm looking for the best way to attache seats, with the greatest diversity of use. Wide seat for yoga, lounging. Wide and tall enough configuration for massage. Accommodations for varying numbers of people.

What's the square footage, and what kind of a heater is that? I see the electric cord. Are those some kind of rocks? Glass doors! Does the heat escape and make distribution vary from the glass? Are you using brushes or twigs?

I like an outdoor shower of about ground temperature to rinse and cool in. It seals the pores and exercises the skin's natural functions.

If you massage the shoulders, a loving touch with therapy, she will relax in comfort and follow you, eventually, to the outside for more. As long as she feels comfortable out there. You might get yours done in an exchange, after which, you will follow her anywhere, even outside for more. Sauna is where the heart is.

I love your observation of just talking. We sing, too. The Swedes have family meetings and connect with each other, I'm told. That's how our community sweat has become an extended family affair. People meet with each other relaxed, positive and open. Their nakedness encourages baring the good soul. If anyone gets tense, we turn up the heat and they get back to the moment, which is very very rare.

Yep, yep, yep. Good, good, good!
jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 16, 2017, 12:27:52 AM
Great Post, Ian (note the capital P), thank you.
I observe that the shed and sauna seem to be executed with your customary wide expertise, attention to detail and brave assumption of a chunky task.
The interior looks lovely and very authentic.  Big shed!


Whilst obviously I am no expert on encouragement of spousal participation (understatement), I nevertheless feel that Carole probably won't need encouragement to come out naked for cooling off over time.  She'll just eventually drop the petty pretense of propriety with a shred of towel around her.  I guess if you are in any way overlooked, that might be her concern and she might therefore be resistant to being naked outside the cabin.  However, if she does cool off in the garden, maybe one day she'll just walk back into the house and not bother to dress! 


Given that the Scandinavians jump in a freezing lake or roll in the snow, do you just stand in the garden or have you got some sort of aquatic means of cooling off?  Get digging!  You'll need a swimming pool now! :D


The togetherness aspect you mentioned was one that stood out for me.  My wife and I often are doing stuff apart but both in the house ...but we frequently chat over meals, in bed, after seeing a TV programme etc.  But the sort of 'enforced' togetherness of the sauna seems appealing as a way of promoting communication and the old 'quality time' between partners.


For my own part (irrespective of my gag about invitations) I can't take Saunas for more than a very few minutes.  I get really overcome.  Steam rooms ok but saunas I can't manage.  So... "Sauna you than me!"


What will you do with the rest of the space in the shed?  The sauna at a guess is only 30% of the space.


John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: milfmog on August 16, 2017, 11:35:59 PM
John,

Consider yourself invited; I chose to use a "Stauna" controller, so we have a steam generator as well as the dry heater and can set the cabin to run at 80%RH and 40C, 100C with no added steam or a couple of other settings in between. I always like to keep my options open :D

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 17, 2017, 01:31:36 AM
Quote
John,

Consider yourself invited; I chose to use a "Stauna" controller, so we have a steam generator as well as the dry heater and can set the cabin to run at 80%RH and 40C, 100C with no added steam or a couple of other settings in between. I always like to keep my options open :D

Have fun,


Ian.


How tempting!


John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: milfmog on August 17, 2017, 09:49:28 AM
Quote
John,

Consider yourself invited; I chose to use a "Stauna" controller, so we have a steam generator as well as the dry heater and can set the cabin to run at 80%RH and 40C, 100C with no added steam or a couple of other settings in between. I always like to keep my options open :D

Have fun,


Ian.


How tempting!


John
You know (roughly) where I am. If you are going to be in the area with time on your hands, give me a call or drop me an email.

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: milfmog on August 18, 2017, 01:20:00 PM
Hi JB,

Sorry, I read your post and meant to answer your queries but then got distracted. Oh well, I remembered eventually, so here goes:.

Quote from: ”JB”
are those slats stuck in place, or removable for cleaning. We, of course, have sand, etc. and have to hose and sweep. I'm looking for the best way to attache seats, with the greatest diversity of use. Wide seat for yoga, lounging. Wide and tall enough configuration for massage.

The horizontal slats are fixed to one another as seat panels and are screwed to the structure. They sit on rails on the walls and have supporting leg frames s the screws to the walls are more about me making the whole structure as stiff and secure as I can. It would have been perfectly OK to leave the benches loos for easy removal and I am sure a clip arrangement could be devised fairly simply to allow the legs to be removed easily.

The vertical (“infill” panels are assembled as a panel and held in place with two screws each into the bench support legs. I am going to find a simple clip system to allow for their easy removal to allow me to mop under the benches without having to find a screw driver. The problem here is not sand or dust but sweat on a vinyl floor designed to keep the moisture away from the wooden sub-floor. A difference in what needs to be cleaned up but the same issue of facilitating easy regular cleaning.

The seat configuration I have allows for three people to lie down at one time, one at high level and two lower down. It would accommodate six or seven seated people without being uncomfortably tight or requiring anyone to sit on the heater  :o.

Quote
What's the square footage, and what kind of a heater is that? I see the electric cord. Are those some kind of rocks? Glass doors! Does the heat escape and make distribution vary from the glass? Are you using brushes or twigs?

The cabin is nominally 2170mm wide x 1660mm deep and 1950mm high (85.4” x 65.4” x 76.8”) those are external dimensions, as the wall panels are 40mm thick the internal space is 80mm less in each direction. So the internal area is approximately 36 square feet and the volume approximately 220 cubic feet.

The heater is 6Kw electric heater with three elements. Typically it uses one element to sustain the temperature with a top up from the other two elements when required. The rocks act as a heat storage mechanism and allow perfumed water splashed onto the heater to boil off quickly, releasing the chosen aroma into the atmosphere. I have four fragrances at present, eucalyptus, rosemary & thyme, orange and lavender and am still experimenting with the best way to use them to “flavour” the air. Mixing them with water to splash on the rocks is effective for a short time, adding them to the water in the steam generator when we use it should be effective and more sustained, but seems to cause too much frothing in the steamer and being splashed with boiling water tends to destroy the moment. I am planning on trying a soapstone jar that can be placed in the stones on the heater and filled with an aroma solution that boils away over time. I just need to find the right sized jar, as the one I have found is too large to sit between the heater elements.

The duty cycle on the heater is such that I would guess that the system runs at around 2Kw averaged over an hour, so a three hour run (an hour to heat up and 2 hours use) costs me about 35p (roughly 45 cents). I don’t worry much about the running costs :D. In winter, when it is colder outside resulting in more heat loss, I would expect it to run closer to 4KWH per hour, roughly double the cost I have seen at present and more consistent with the manufacturers estimate.

The glass door is pretty standard in most Finnish saunas. The reason is that people outside can see if anyone inside faints and needs assistance (the same considerations mean that sauna doors should always open outwards). I can’t say I have noticed any drop in temperature around the door.

I have to confess that I have not experimented with twigs / brushes or any other form of self-flagellation and do not find the idea very appealing. Perhaps I should try it before I write the concept off.

Quote
I like an outdoor shower of about ground temperature to rinse and cool in. It seals the pores and exercises the skin's natural functions.

I have considered an outside shower, possibly solar heated. However, it is about 10 feet to the back door of the house and just inside is the downstairs bathroom and shower, so there is no real need to do anything else. An outside shower would also require a drain to be sensible in our moist climate and it adds up to rather a lot of work for little return. We also have to consider the risk of freeze up during the winter; frost can do nasty things to plumbing if it is allowed to. On balance, using the shower in the house seems the best option for us.

Quote
If you massage the shoulders, a loving touch with therapy, she will relax in comfort and follow you, eventually, to the outside for more. As long as she feels comfortable out there.

John asked what else we were doing with the shed. The mid section, inside the glazed area, is laid out with a couple of soft upholstered reclining garden chairs and foot stools. There is a low table between the chairs with drinking water and glasses (both for drinking from and mine for seeing through). The end remote from the sauna has an overflow deepfreeze and a fridge. (The fridge is slightly unusual as it is fitted with a heater and a microprocessor based temperature control which allows me to regulate the temperature to +/-0.5C anywhere between about 1C and 35C. I use it to control the temperature at which my beer brews  8)).

The plan was to allow us to chill out inside the summerhouse when we get too hot without going out into the garden, which could be rather unpleasant in winter drizzle, fog and wind. The reclining chairs go flat and, when used with the foot stools, make effective, if low, massage beds. Given that the cushions were designed for garden use, they are easy to wash and largely unharmed by getting wet. So, massage has already been discovered as a bonding tool, but usually happens just outside the sauna. The downside is that, because the summerhouse is so comfortable, there is less incentive to go into the garden. If it is warm and dry next time we sauna, I may just move the chairs and stools out onto the patio before we start. I guess I will have to play that by ear, it may be better to get Carole totally comfortable inside the summerhouse before pushing too hard to get her outside.

Quote
I love your observation of just talking. We sing, too.

Talking works. Had you heard either of us sing, you would understand why I tend to use recorded music instead of making my own. I do have some respect for the neighbour's sensibilities…

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 27, 2017, 10:06:13 PM

Quote
John asked what else we were doing with the shed. The mid section, inside the glazed area, is laid out with a couple of soft upholstered reclining garden chairs and foot stools. There is a low table between the chairs with drinking water and glasses (both for drinking from and mine for seeing through). The end remote from the sauna has an overflow deepfreeze and a fridge.
It's a veritable palace of relaxation!


John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: milfmog on August 28, 2017, 08:08:52 AM

It's a veritable palace of relaxation!


John
That was the idea!

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on February 19, 2019, 10:51:20 PM

Gosh! 18 months since the last post here...and as JOhnGW remarked at the inception of this post, it was a topic that we all contributed many, many, many posts to in TSNS (and there are 8 pages here!).  What was the title of that thread? "Spouse Incremental Progress" or something like?  It was the second most used after 'How was your Month for...'  Anybody from 'The old school' remember? 


I have reawakened this thread to report a bit of good news to those that have followed the many years of the soap opera of my life with a spouse who really does not take to naturism.

The wife and I have booked a holiday near Dubrovnik, Croatia for a few months hence.  As my hand hovered over the credit card confirmation button, I said to my wife "You know that Croatia is one of the most nudist-friendly countries and has lots of naturist beaches and there is one 7 mins drive from our hotel and another one not much further way.  I'm expecting to visit one or both while we are there. It's a condition!"  And she agreed!  She then remarked that I probably agreed to Croatia (there has been a healthy debate over the previous few days as to where to go) just because there were naturist beaches.  "No," I replied truthfully, "not at all - it's a nice looking holiday with or without naturism.  But since there is the opportunity for naturism nearby, it adds to the holiday and I won't be cheated out of a visit or two, since it's there". 
"Ok," she responded again "It would be churlish not to let you have your bit of naturism...but I probably won't enjoy it."
"Well, we're going - so brace yourself!  You're not going to bump into anyone you know and you can keep your cossie on" And we left it at that.
However, she had clearly agreed, so hurrah, I get to do a naturist beach in a warm climate.  Fantastic. Report in a few months!  She is probably plotting to prevent me going even as I type this!! :D
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on February 20, 2019, 01:43:41 AM
Whilst on the beach, pull her to her feet and ask her to dance. When you know that she is feeling positive, liquor her up. Check out the beaches first from any source that you can muster to be sure that she has a positive expereic nce and no negatives (which she may be looking for).

You know it is an important big step and an opportunity that should certainly be made use of.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on February 20, 2019, 06:55:15 PM

Good call Jbee - prior research and possibly recce.  Will store that up for the trip.
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on February 20, 2019, 08:06:24 PM
What will you do to get some base tan to survive a beach prior to actually being on one in the sun? Will you be in the backyard tanning in preparation? Would that tick he off? Would that tan come from hanging out in the woods naked and get to her suspicions?

She's okay with a couple of short larks to a beach, but will she be okay with the prep?
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on February 27, 2019, 09:48:24 PM

Well, we get sun nearly all day in our garden/backyard on good days - not enough for a proper tan but helpful for acclimatisation (I don't really tan, never had enough continuous exposure) and yes she get's hacked off when I'm sunning naked and I have to cover the parts if we are sunbathing together.  I don't actually lie about much - I move around, do bits of gardening, read, do yoga etc.  Today, February remember, winter in UK  it was 20 deg C 68F in our garden and sunny and when I returned from the mornings activity, I went for a bit of nude SB even though wifey was around.  "Oh do cover up" she remarked predictably " Allay your predictable onslaught, woman!" I volleyed.  "Give me a few minutes peace at least, in the first sunbathe of the year for pity's sake."  "Um well...ok" She conceded "But don't be too long".  Good.  Other conversation today was positive too.  We talked about renewing a rotten old bench on the patio and I remarked that it was a good place to sit at breakfast time and also that it got sun all day and that I wasn't visible naked from the kitchen if she was sitting in there (most of the rest of the garden is visible from the kitchen). "Oh yes, she said, that'll be better."  I can't wait to get to the garden furniture store!  Then later, as we were making a cup of tea she said quite spontaneously: "I don't really mind coming to the nudist beach with you when we're on holiday."  "Thank you, darling" I responded, warmly "It means a lot to me just to go and do that for a visit or two".  She: "But I bet I won't like it, though" 
Anyway, back to sunbathing - I'm afraid Jbee that there's nothing much we can do other than that to prepare with what sun and sunbathing opportunities we get and slap plenty of sun-sludge on when we're there and take a beach umbrella...and don't stay out in the sun too long and/or cover up it one starts to burn.  The temperatures we will encounter are only about 18-21 deg C although 12 hours a day sunshine on average
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on May 28, 2019, 10:56:42 PM

Well, we are back from our holiday which, whilst offering me lots of naked time, didn't go quite to plan.  Croatia and the Adriatic coast is known for its excellent weather, probably quite comparable to Arizona for dry sunny climate.  But guess what - Nuduke's luck operated and we arrived in the middle of the worst spell of wet weather and thunderstorms in May in Croatia in living memory!  So we had a lot of grey days with some rain.  There were a couple of sunbathing hot days and some sunny spells in the middle of other days, but solid beach weather it was not.  Nevertheless, Mrs N had promised to accompany me to the nudist beach one day and the first opportunity dawned for that with her having some difficulty with a bout of diahorrea, which whilst not preventing sunbathing and swimming, did confine us to the hotel for the day.  Mrs N was very tolerant of my nudity and I got a lot of rays on the hotel room balcony.


 (https://i62upa.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mbnl1T2jSeGcz3l3PUGvsEG26bzmDd6hgVXtnj1ydfJeO6mix2q_9Anekx9rb6brkUEKEcAxDGViWpq7obDasieWcf_3vMdYPYebkBYyjv-Ce1iHxajnsI39J7rlWakFCdmmx_ziwIHhEiXhAN7WoKDDeUUNDLYsPjYQym8Xdlosl3uKlpGWyTvWaU0csTx5wvADkJBtOInEaXEcMQfNXXQ?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)    (https://h62upa.sn.files.1drv.com/y4miVxpXxtNbgBK3Tb9U8_xyhIZaoOHL4JJTLTxELbIfiUJZK4aT_hKq3FhYxulhvsUh5eog-dUmvlxS9HXqRomDW3Lu05AORm1PeP_BOpCRVIcbgOtP6D7ZylH-s50eQcuIF8TKjRIjE2_XyxV8C-TkzJ8N2cLv87zfjUUNOsfcYWw16W1OontjDllsmAr7uAgt0hIICf90zC0zXiWxHLtYA?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)


So much so that, far from burning I ended up with an allergy rash on patches of my legs which was either due to the sunblock or the sun itself.  Probably the latter - I have had this affliction for many years and I think it is triggered simply by heat...but not always!  However, I digress (and we never do that, do we?).


As the week and the poor weather wore on I gave up the notion of getting to the naturist beach which was a 30 minute bus ride then a 15 min walk to the ferry that took you out to the island (Lokrum), another 20 mins then another 20 min walk to the "beach" which was actually the rocky edge of the island at a rather uninvitingly steep slope down to a low cliff edge.  No actual beach at all. (We saw it when we went on a short boat trip around the bay of Dubrovnik). 


You can see it on this picture
(https://i635xw.sn.files.1drv.com/y4m5ZlT0Bo9G7_uHfXSLncb6skIrLatpro4l9BD9gPK0CF1wLjzd_08LDuNDXl05VQ7bObxBAE1xzbkLx4a1O5dd1r2APQRnlQ7_8M69NkcmyXIIouGb03biZ8hPYMOyl2emoEDYojDsVmq0akD8549r4yGsXNKzi-TiZ3GM_E9jvkc0kx4Bsh7BDcKiz1jdtyQ8nax4zLU44rR-__bxlLdag?width=256&height=181&cropmode=none)


However, all was not lost! Early on in the trip I took a walk along the coast from the hotel where there was a large extent of forest atop steep cliffs.  It was a steep ascent up a rocky pathway that looked like an Arizonan wash.  This picture gives you an impression of the gradient but underestimates it!


(https://jk35xw.sn.files.1drv.com/y4msRvAWhyQQEgm45enonHWSufWbDjKo-u8yxNhFl8EvlvRCCjtJDhYYSirAFTLc1Qt6hDVmK8RtIio4TG6PSQyLAg7iYIL1xC2GAAC0b2wnT4K56OFW56o_PmQM9ZAi3NoInBK3M67GNLbxRcyM6xZC6PwXmqzEO6nS81o3ZTRXKHafhSJZ7g__Xrsc4clxabYmR39GnNgK9pbOV6zYfOVJg?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)



I took a small, little used path to detour off the main pathway and lo!  A little clearing appeared on the edge of the cliff with some strange construction on it.  I took this to be a military installation left over from WW2 or more likely the Croatian independence war with Serbia in the 1980s and 90s.


(https://ja2upa.sn.files.1drv.com/y4m_YPp5UPIlPngqC-tk82Xf2rtkWX6AfQyueFi6UqvWjzGtEZWbazev9-BjGfceJk43rFkPPD-2NcG-yMWmbA1CcAmsWk7oa6Dk2Ikqj-FflnAj-GW0H48qz1ATIxdemPSkAgPeTr3m0zP9cMHNOCX_OYpCZOqK-p0V8ttqH6_7a90KjNmI3sgxAqcCF2z2YpeD7rrwo5Uw0cIYoB4JvM1cA?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)


Despite meeting a couple of people on the main path, here I was alone nd isolated and soon had my clothes off and was standing or sitting on the edge of a precipitous plunging vertical cliff overlooking the Elafiti Islands in the distance and sundry shipping below.


(https://jq2upa.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mKJoxuuDgz5zyMDQz4FrAQxZpKxMGqt96AhvAztrM6hXVI3_Javo5ovG9S0ftbTjwGEinN6RE-lkpWF18HYr681Jav_Eq0kRGk9-6hQkYM2sVEWpXJRulYVO4pvWiV_iWiP1mHXyI4DBPbQE8XSpSduuhVwL-LGyw-AifgnnjCwRyF2pLONE_EBjgeDc19Pivwzf9rTRDFCZVUIRwiszdgw?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)   (https://jq35xw.sn.files.1drv.com/y4m4FQczWlL0eVqbJb78wse2rcIkMV6o-U5ft2h41F3Qsqdysonox4WS6XoypVvhgeEk51XxzvMJCvMx7JqNdXxBOxZWPJZpUlrxeHhxvlh3G33U_es5rSqxnd5L9ezMqfVO7yd6VcJ4ufpUE0_cVS7tppLvxGvmFwFvAB_rSrugcYiO4tcLfaRbQYP6Pzz4DDdkHgwBSBjIp7KAAfsO_LTLw?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)  (https://j635xw.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mjaKuGR25PR443IU6Qm3Jsgp8tJLe5CrLHYZ8SOD71Khc8kZTiITVpu4IHRXCt7HbhPmlRdi28VTS-yi3qUM1RQF0DUO1LGcTmTc215I_ySROV2tMA9vj_-tV4VTBfRIMQS4x5A7SdcFyQZ8QNUQl-LbRWUgIcto_ooXmEyMkVbBUcJ18U47FoARyYxyxp82IHoWJHmzSMy5RHShtLifxeQ?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)


I was able to sit and enjoy being naked in nature and walk about a bit although I couldn't be completely naked - I had to wear my sandals as the stony ground was very painful to walk on and evidenced with previous occupation in that there was broken glass in some parts. 


(https://ia2upa.sn.files.1drv.com/y4m1gG6uOvZz21B9CYgY5SDXqYoHOS7QqehQlgSW0G4rBhXEi8F3DR1HPYxVyLDIvPZF8z_4U3uojT7sk9M8B26kjQk-BwGf2cq_T1NbJ89ptExz8Dz_FvelS-knlqFfqw7S8FeqYWDTz-5zOswbOM251jmyaAG6pOtvVluMYAFdH1OuOnMpBoUVAzY-CZ9G1Tdj3vo3EsoCxy04IeV7_Ahfw?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)



I meditated, and walked a little way along the cliff edge as the vegetation and rocks allowed, challenging the edge and my tendency to vertigo and thoroughly enjoyed my find.  I went back several times usually in kindly, evening sunshine to enjoy some more naked time.  The final time I was there I eventually and reluctantly dressed and no sooner had I pulled my t shirt and swim shorts on than a couple suddenly appeared up the path.  Phew! Encounter avoided.  I had not heard them coming.  I bid them a good afternoon and recommended the view and warned them merrily about not falling off and went on my way.  They looked at me oddly.  I think they were English or German so they would probably have understood my cheery greeting.  Had they seen me naked?  I don't know (and indeed don't care).
Photo taken after the sun dipped below the cliffs after a bi of SN contemplation of the Adriatic Sea


(https://kk35xw.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mdWvfqqy25u-llg6sV921bS8s1emxxGR1gHiZ25fRsCobwDPybnWQndx5G37kCeFbFOuq0-7bgIw9gVMwC6QuDfGRYJ4XgHsKUGdURCdmU2o6q2cf10HyRIhbzBRPW8HjPfJcNKSSGNwRr_GcWZCAKMPuZietzqyrxbaAZqjPbYiBOz1-uu1FrWwtjf7feuKR1iDSvOWfnmKhGp884V_aeg?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none)   


So whilst weather and the wife's pestilence robbed me of my opportunity to get her naked on a beach, nevertheless I had a good batch of naked time to myself, from which I was very satisfied that I had taken advantage of the opportunities that arose.  As to the rest of the holiday, on the grey days there was sightseeing and a trip into neighbouring Montenegro ...and I put on about 4lb in weight dammit!  Too many restaurant meals and ice creams (which were fabulously good in Dubrovnik, I might add)


John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: BlueTrain on May 28, 2019, 11:03:07 PM
Rest assured, you can wear a hat and shoes, even boots, and all the jewelry you want and still be considered naked. You will even feel naked. Or nude.

My wife toured Europe after finishing college, which I'm not sure happens these days. Anyway, she reported that may places they went for swimming had no beaches, at least not the way we think of beaches. When she was there, it was still Yugoslavia but even earlier, when I was in Germany, the Adriatic Coast was the place to go if you were German.

Nice pictures, by the way.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on May 29, 2019, 06:47:15 AM
Dang weird weather. It snowed up on Mt. Lemmon at the end of May. It never has come close to that. We changed our plans. We had a great time. Looks like you did, too.

Nicely thought out pics.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on July 31, 2019, 06:29:16 PM

Interesting development at home today.
My dear spouse was a bit preoccupied with a variety of things today and actually so have I been (watering the indoor and garden pot plants and putting the laundry away, that sort of stuff).  I forget what time we got up and started the day - it wasn't early, maybe about 9am.  As is my habit, I don't get dressed until I have to for some reason and there was no reason today.  We carried on with our chores and interacted as usual and as the hours wore on I was gleefully noticing that Mrs N hadn't mentioned the fact that I was naked.  It took some 5 or 6 hours for her to complain that I wasn't dressed which is a record when we are together.  I shared that with her at lunch, which is when she noticed. "I've been busy, didn't bother to stop you" she said without rancour.  Oh yes?  I reckon that in fact she'd hardly noticed.  Is she getting used to me naked at last?  Is the war of attrition getting somewhere?  I doubt if today was other than an exception but at least I got an opportunity to discuss it with her and thank her for not bothering.
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on July 31, 2019, 10:26:43 PM
So, you keep her very very busy? Or do you set up domestic life like parallel play?  :D

I've heard of wives being worn down over time and throwing in the towel in increments. They realize that it isn't enough to make issue about. Or, they realize that their husbands are big boys and need to make their own choices without a motherly reminder. My boss thirty years ago was the first, she was just doing BS with the secretary and said resolutely, "I just can't keep clothes on him when he is home."

DF suggested for me to say, "Okay mom," or sarcastically "Thanks mom." It worked on her behavior, which wasn't about my nudity of course. I haven't said that in a couple of years. I also remember that she nailed a "thanks dad" on me." She was correct.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 06, 2019, 07:00:19 AM
It appears that she is grudgingly accepting the situation John, but will continue to remind you of her objections.
Hang in there friend.

Duane
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 06, 2019, 08:03:48 PM
Nuduke has been hanging in there for many years, now. He is expert at that. He has also been winning, incrementally. His patience and perseverance is admirable and beyond me.
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 10, 2019, 04:47:57 PM

And I will continue to hang! (and dangle!!) 
I wish she would make some sort of compromise like "Thursdays are nude days" but she still says she feels uncomfortable when I am nude.  Mind you this is very conditional.  Upstairs and in the bedroom nudity goes without remark usually but downstairs whilst doing normal things like cooking or cleaning or whatever, that's what triggers her rigid lines of 'propriety'.  I put on a wrap or some leidure shorts if she objects and let it fall as soon as I can.  So the uncomfortable truce proceeds.  Sometimes she just doesn't notice for a while.  Sometimes she claims to have been bothered by my nakedness but couldn't be bothered to object (that's a bit of hypocrisy to hide that she realises this isn't going to go away).  But yes, the fact that I want to be naked has become accepted, however grudgingly.  Her aim in life is to cover me up but that recognises that my norm now is to be naked when possible.  Incremental yes, but OHHHHhhhhhh so slow!


John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: BlueTrain on August 10, 2019, 06:16:15 PM
People get divorced over less important things.
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: jbeegoode on August 11, 2019, 10:10:11 PM
Dating, or looking for a future partner, I'll always consider the potential for a naturist. Somethings just can't be compromised, or go without support. This aspect of my lifestyle is one. I was like this before I married the wrong persons, but that at least wasn't one of the reasons for divorce. :-X
Jbee
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 13, 2019, 07:53:06 PM

Been naked most of the day today, done garden, housework, admin.. all as nature intended - wife's off on an all day trip :)
John
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: nuduke on August 26, 2019, 10:02:57 PM

Further news from Lake Nudebegone
We've had record sunny and hot days for the time of year again over the last 4 days (32-35 deg C) and, apart from popping out for 10 minutes for some milk and a quick visit to the local department store for some last minute holiday shopping, my wife and I have been at home.
I have been utterly blatant about not wanting to wear anything and have only kept my wrap to hand for when my dear spouse complains.
I have dropped it as soon as her back is turned e.g. when she is reading in the sunshine on the patio, I settle myself naked behind her and out of her field of vision or if I am in another room the wrap is off in an instant.  She is aware of this and is sort of content to put up with it as long as she isn't looking at me or in the same room.  When I don't cover up, it's good how long it has been before she has recovered her ingrained prejudices and asked me to put the wrap on (or 'something on' as she puts it).
When she is out of the room I drop the wrap straight away and when she comes back maybe a few minutes to an hour or two later she always 'tut tuts' but I stay naked.  If I go to where she is I am naked and she says with exasperation "Oh, your naked again.  Please put something on."  And I say "Yes, in a minute, but I came to talk to you about X and Y …"  and carry on as long as possible without covering up.

Whilst I guess the heat and lethargy has made her a little laissez faire secretly, she still never misses an opportunity to complain.  But this weekend the complaints have been somewhat attenuated in tone and force.  In other words she's letting me be me a bit more than, but not letting her guard drop too far :)
She has been sleeping naked in the heat and yesterday she woke, acknowledged that it was still very hot and when I suggested she just not get dressed to combat the heat a bit she just wouldn't go out of the bedroom without getting dressed albeit in not much clothes.  On enquiry why she didn't want to be naked she said she was uncomfortable and felt exposed and didn't like it.  She also brought up the need to wear a bra which absorbs some of the underboob sweat on hot days.  And then the old, old, old chestnut "Someone may come to the door".  I took exception to this, as I have done before, and averred that I am not living my life in fear and protecting myself against the remote possibility of an unsolicited visitor!! We had a Amazon delivery that day and I simply donned my shorts between doorbell and answering the door to show her how unnecessary it was.  She then related that one of her friends in the village had told her that she was a bit shocked when she popped round on an unsolicited visit and I answered the door in my dressing gown early afternoon.  I don't know exactly what this lady was shocked by - that I wasn't dressed per se or that I wasn't dressed in the afternoon.  What boggled me is that her friend sought to bring this up at all.  What's the big deal? Unfortunately, like everyone I suppose, we live amongst people who have no conception that not wearing clothes is an option and who are utterly geriatrically ingrained with the total lack of recognition or understanding that others may choose not to wear clothes.  It just never crosses their tiny minds.
Anyway, an exceptionally naked weekend!

John 
Title: Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
Post by: eyesup on August 27, 2019, 04:38:07 PM
Seems you have a standard method to confront persistent pressure to alter your newly implemented strategy.

I would have had the same reaction to the intrusion by the friend. As you said that there was a compulsion to air an opinion on activities in a house that they didn’t live in.

Yes, boggling!

Duane