Free Range Naturism

Naturism => General Naturism Discussion => Topic started by: eyesup on July 24, 2015, 07:51:45 PM

Title: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 24, 2015, 07:51:45 PM
While reading on another site, I ran across this article.

The post where I found it had described another news shows treatment of nudism as juvenile. A reporter on a local station in New Jersey had done a piece on Gunnison Beach, a nude venue in that state, and had treated much as a hormone pumped high school teen would have.

This news report was labeled as a good example of how the subject could be presented with a more reasoned and objective treatment. See it here. (http://www.kshb.com/news/kansas-city-nudist-group-helping-people-become-more-comfortable-with-themselves-by-shedding-layers)

After that I Googled for other such articles and found this one. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/25/nudism-problems_n_7647806.html)

The article by Claire Fallon, of the Huffington Post, was written after reading two books about the nudist lifestyle, a journalistic report on social naturism, "Naked Lunch" and a fiction novel, "The Nakeds".

Apparently Smith, the journalist who wrote "Naked Lunch", wrote in his book something we discussed on the old site, the effect clothing has on the observer:

     He (Smith) claims to quickly grow desensitized to the naked bodies all around him at nudist
     clubs, only noticing one attractive woman after she gets dressed.


I was glad to see that view expressed by someone external to that lifestyle.

On the opposite side is a excerpt from the novel about the subject of that work, a teenager attempting to recover from a devastating accident, immobilized by leg and/or body casts. The reporter writes:

     Her parents divorce, and when Nina (her mom) marries Azeem, Hannah is bemused by his more outré
     interests. When Hannah refuses to join Azeem and Nina at their nudist camp, they tell her they’ll
     “bring the camp to you.” On Fridays, her mother and stepfather roam the house unclothed, while
     awkward tween Hannah, in her perpetual toe-to-groin cast, avoids eye contact.

     “The human body is a beautiful thing,” Nina tells her daughter. “We’re not ashamed.”

     “It’s not about you,” retorts Hannah.


The novel sounds like a look at the "ugly side" of naturism/nudism. But having not read it and only going by what the journalist reports, it sounds more like a description of parental neglect or outright abuse. Not sure which.

At any rate it sounds disturbing, along with the behaviors of men in San Francisco.

There are many sides to the story and a sensible meeting of the minds probably can be made in some future society. Not likely this one.

Duane


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: reubenT on July 26, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
When a mind is trained to view something in a certain way,     such as naked=lewd.     That's how it will see it at first sight.  And if the sight is limited that's how it continues.    As in a reporter seeing a naturist group only briefly.    But if the mind is retrained to view the scene in a different manner,  either by education,  or conditioning.   The naked=lewd thought process will fade away.    I got it first by education,   then by conditioning based on the education.    Some get it first by conditioning,  and then the education dawns on them.         Joining a naturist group for a time will create the conditioning, by self and others associating nude in nonsexual context.  Sometimes it only takes a few minutes to get into it,  sometimes longer to realize the effect.   But if a reporter who hasn't been educated shows up, and then doesn't spend enough time to get educated on the nonsexual nature of the environment,   or prefers a more "exciting" story.   A very false picture can be portrayed by the story,  which may well be damaging to the whole group, especially if it's a conservative family oriented place.
  And then an unfiltered venue is like to attract a whole range of participants.   From the sexually conservative to the profligate exhibitionist type.    (flagrant sinners by Christian terms)   Beaches and bike rides could be that kind.     The filter of a conservative naturist resort with anti sex laws would be a better place for the uneducated reporter.    Some have better filters than others.   The requirements of one in CA I looked into was accompaniment for first time visitors and background checks for membership.    One more local to me requires strict behavior standards.   Any sexual activities or lewd behavior is grounds for permanent expulsion for life.     Sometimes just the nature of the environment serves as filter,  those looking for lust charged adventure are disappointed and don't come back.    A brief exposure and they may be creating the lust charged adventure in their own minds when it really isn't there.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 08, 2015, 02:28:52 PM
Naked Driver arrested for causing car crash, not for driving naked.

http://libertynews.com/2015/08/bizarre-news-of-the-day-caught-on-tape-after-causing-a-6-car-pileup-man-flees-scene-on-foot-stark-naked/
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 10, 2015, 01:00:44 AM
Hmm.  Somewhat macabre article there, Bob. 
Why did he run, I wonder?  Panic, fright, concussion, 'under the influence'?
I suspect he wasn't an SN carnuding.  The article suggested drugs.  Wonder if there'll be a follow up article when the truth is out?  Curiosity whetted.

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 10, 2015, 03:42:11 PM
There seems to be more articles lately about naked people doing dumb things, like getting naked after taking recreational drugs and crashing cars.  To me its a sign that more people are getting naked, and some of them end up in the news for whatever reasons.  Naked people probably do as many stupid things as clothed people (other than clothes being stupid). 

I see it as a sign that there are more naked people in total.  I also see that the police are arresting him for crashing cars, etc., but not for being naked.   If he had continued to drive naked without crashing, nobody would have minded. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 10, 2015, 05:57:25 PM
It never ceases to amaze me what is accepted as "art" these days (a complaint often heard throughout the land when the Turner Prize is in the offing!). The latest example can be seen here:

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/aug/09/edinburgh-festival-liberation-naked-people-throw-paint-modern-life-stress

A theatrical event at the Edinburgh Festival in which artistes get naked and chuck paint at each other. The idea, says the production's originator, is to "free the audience from feelings of shame over nudity through music, dance and mime". Guess he's never visited this website or any like it.

Would I be too judgmental to call this pretentious nonsense?

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 10, 2015, 06:11:23 PM
And another case of the prudes starting to get the upper hand

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/berlin-nudists-feel-the-heat-from-prudish-tourists-1.2310388

Happily the police seem to have responded in the correct manner.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 10, 2015, 06:33:25 PM
The only downside I can see to that, Bob, is nudity being associated with DUI or other influenced behaviors.

Other than that I agree with you.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 10, 2015, 06:47:22 PM
Quote from: peter
Would I be too judgmental to call this pretentious nonsense?

No. The saying goes that it is in the eye of the beholder. If it's not art to you, it's not art.
Maybe they should have simply called it a performance or an exhibition.

Contrary to what Bob asserts, that there seems to be more nudity and more acceptance of it, there seems to also be a back peddling in some quarters of what is defined as odd behavior.

For me odd is good. Odd simply means someone is no longer in "The Box". There is a belief that you can control unfamiliar change by regulating and controlling those things that are more easily controlled, e.g. behavior in your community.

It is a good idea to control dangerous behavior, but not odd or different. And remember, like art, odd or different is in the eye of the beholder.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 10, 2015, 08:05:02 PM
A theatrical event at the Edinburgh Festival in which artistes get naked and chuck paint at each other.

peter


The artists find an excuse to get naked.  The Guardian finds an excuse to publish photos of naked human beings.   And nobody has a hissy fit about either.  Both are becoming more common because naked humans are becoming more acceptable to many people.

Bob


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 10, 2015, 08:09:56 PM
Contrary to what Bob asserts, that there seems to be more nudity and more acceptance of it, there seems to also be a back peddling in some quarters of what is defined as odd behavior.
Duane

There are forces going both directions, Duane.   We have a huge migration of Muslims who won't even show their faces in public and demand that nobody else does either.   The issue is not settled yet.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 10, 2015, 08:30:28 PM
Drawing myself up to my full intellectual height (midget) and drawing on my considerable body of academic knowledge (a 2 day adult ed course on the philosophy of art!), might I comment on the paint throwing ballet in terms of its artistic merit?
If it's art, it's pretty heavily disguised.  I guess it is art but we'd need to ask a fit judge e.g. Brian Sewell (UK idiomatic witticism there!)

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 10, 2015, 11:40:54 PM
Naked AT Lunch by Mark Haskell Smith is a very very fun read.DF and I recommenced it, not only as entertainment (informed and hilarious), by also as a good easy introduction to nudity and body acceptance. Mark's reluctance and uncomfortably are eroded as it progresses. It becomes okay and the reader may gather the same outlook. DF got a signed copy at the TNS Gathering from him (he, his wife, us, all nude at the interview and book signing) with the plan to get a more prudish friend of hers to better understand what she is up to by reading it.

Bob seems to lament the immigration of Muslim, because of their fundamentalist, ideas and customs. While I consider aspects of my naturism an important component of my spirituality, or religious practice and feel persecuted by the anti-nudity laws, some of these people offend me and commit what I see as acts that are supposed to be illegal and certainly damaging and immoral openly. It ain't fair. My concern is seeing an obviously teenage, near middle-school girl at the mall in a full on burka, following five feet behind a young man who is either her brother, or somehow husband. This is abuse. This is contrary to much constitutional decree, going passed the law's usual interference of religion. A Mormon is not allowed polygamy or marriage by arrangement, yet this child is being railroaded into a similar, actually much more extreme arranged confinement and from what I observe, much more restrictive. While teaching in the public schools, I was required to segregate these immigrant children from male students, who should be their peers and even from myself in my classroom. So, when I am persecuted and threatened with jail for my religious convictions, and Mormon's theirs because of a Supreme court ruling made back in the 1870's (when all manner of government meddling was occurring), I can't help but see inconsistency and unfairness. Here we have a child having her right of self, her basic personhood, squelched, by an act that is more medieval custom than religious, yet there are laws on the books hitting nudity hard, when it does no harm, even good for children. Where is the compelling states interest in each instance?

Choking the potential of a child because of her sex is legal and protected as religion and a free body is not! It is okay to see violence in the most horrific manner in media, but not a nude human body. In both contexts, men and society are imposing a sexual message on the social fabric, something that they have created to such an extreme as these. This is simply NUTS.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on August 11, 2015, 05:12:36 PM
It seems that the fundamentalist element of the Muslims is seen more in the populated areas of the country. In my neck of the woods there are the same fundamentalists only they say they are Christian. Every once in a while on my Facebook page a comparison between the two shows up every now and then. Women should dress modestly, be subservient to men, laws should be based on the Koran or Bible. Religious freedom as long as it's their religion.  The list goes on but the general idea is the same. Just like the Supreme Court ruling in the 1870's, laws go on the books but take forever to be repealed. If it would ever happen (which I doubt) could you imagine the cry from the pulpits if the Supreme Court struck down an anti-nudity law?

The area I grew up in had a large migrant population from mostly the south and eastern parts of Europe. When it comes to dating customs I remember some of my high school classmates lamenting that their parents had strict controls and saying "they act like we're still in the old country". Considering the more liberal attitude toward nudity perhaps we should look to the old country? Although I am a second generation away from my grandparents the attitude toward casual nudity was carried down from them through my parents. My children may have carried it on if not for peer pressure and media hype although our daughter has seen the light so to speak but that's another story.

NUTS! Jbee that's putting it mildly. I'm getting a kick out of Trump's running for president, not because he has a chance as the GOP establishment will see to that, but because he is exposing the inconsistency. The powers that be have created the mess now refuse to deal with it. How and why the Muslim's have a free pass so to speak when other non-Christian faiths or beliefs have been attacked is beyond me.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 11, 2015, 05:17:21 PM
Quote
Both are becoming more common because naked humans are becoming more acceptable to many people.

In this case your statement about nudity being more common certainly holds up. It's incrementalism.

Quote from: Bob
We have a huge migration of Muslims who won't even show their faces in public and demand that nobody else does either.

Agreed.  I read a report about a woman that wanted to keep her face covered for a drivers license photo, claiming that it violated her religious beliefs. Her request was refused. It is disturbing, and if it weren’t ongoing and persistent it would be funny. How can you have a photo ID without your face showing?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 11, 2015, 05:31:18 PM
Wow, nudewalker! Politics and religion all in one post!  ;D

As with a great many forums, those two discussions are discouraged here, but it certainly is understandable as many of the issues with how nudity is viewed and dealt with in society stem from both of those arenas.

I have no desire to gin-up a discussion on either, but I will say that many people make the mistake of trying to canonize their personal beliefs into their religion when no such law or belief exists within the structure of the faith.

It creates many of the problems we see, not only those regarding nudity.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 11, 2015, 05:46:37 PM
Quote from: John
. . I guess it is art but we'd need to ask a fit judge e.g. Brian Sewell (UK idiomatic witticism there!)

Is that one of those UK things that has to be translated across the pond?  :)

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: tanman on August 11, 2015, 06:09:54 PM
Sometimes, I can't help myself, Duane ...

Quote
How can you have a photo ID without your face showing?
  I have an inherent problem with the requirement for a government issued photo ID in the very first place ...

Quote
... many people make the mistake of trying to canonize their personal beliefs into their religion when no such law or belief exists within the structure of the faith.

Yes, AND

... many people make the mistake of trying to canonize their personal beliefs into their LAW when no such law or belief exists within the structure of the CONSTITUTION.

Larry, I'm done

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 11, 2015, 07:26:19 PM
It's like tiptoe through a field of jumpin' cholla in a windstorm, while barefoot all over, round here! Good job my fellows.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 11, 2015, 10:48:38 PM
It seems that the fundamentalist element of the Muslims is seen more in the populated areas of the country. In my neck of the woods there are the same fundamentalists only they say they are Christian.


Around here the Jesus folks have been attacking coffee places with bare nipple baristas.   The concept of tolerance is beyond them. 



Quote
How and why the Muslim's have a free pass so to speak when other non-Christian faiths or beliefs have been attacked is beyond me.

MONEY.   Muslims have big money organizations and governments pushing their agendas. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 12, 2015, 12:00:44 AM
My problem with photo id is that when being photographed I don't have a 'best side', they are both equally hideous! :D

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 12, 2015, 08:00:31 AM
My problem with photo id is that when being photographed I don't have a 'best side', they are both equally hideous! :D

John
In my experience all Id. pictures look as though they were from a police line-up.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 12, 2015, 06:03:30 PM
Quote from: nuduke
My problem with photo id is that when being photographed I don't have a 'best side', they are both equally hideous!

Quote from: JOhn
In my experience all Id. pictures look as though they were from a police line-up.

I sometimes get requests for a view of my best side.

My back.

As viewed while headed out the door.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 12, 2015, 08:39:34 PM
Duane, you have unfortunately reminded me of a notice which I have seen in many pubs.
Everybody brings joy to this house:
Some when they enter,
Others when they leave.
[/b][/i]
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 12, 2015, 09:50:36 PM
Quote from: JOhnGW
In my experience all Id. pictures look as though they were from a police line-up
I have to say, JOhn you often look quite deeply serious and concentrated on your tasks in your videos and stills.
Maybe that's your trademark.

BTW are you afloat currently and if so where?

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 12, 2015, 10:48:58 PM
At home today and tomorrow.
Going to the boat of Friday for five weeks.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 12, 2015, 11:53:49 PM
Send us a pic or two and let us know where you are!  5 weeks navigating.  Splendid.
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 13, 2015, 06:39:20 PM
After so many reports by you on your canal travels, JOhn, something has finally percolated through the brain.

A. Do you own the Ernest (your boat)?
B. Where do you keep her?

Here on Lake Mead we have substantial marinas for boat owners to moor their craft. Do you have a similar set up? Being on a canal, which doesn't sound like there is a lot of room to maneuver, how do they dock the boats?

This only now occurred to me, after how many years?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 13, 2015, 07:20:35 PM
Ernest is my boat and it is moored in Droitwich Spa Marina which is featured in this YouTube video (link). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY7wgzLDCjk) Ernest's bow can just be glimpsed over Nick Parkes's right shoulder 1 minute into the video.
Before this is was moored at St.Pancras Cruising Club who used the former coal basin at St.Pancras station in London.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5833/20519413776_e6acda2a3a.jpg) (https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5833/20519413776_e6acda2a3a_b.jpg)
Ernest is moored alongside the railway  the railway.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 14, 2015, 05:38:23 PM
The marina at Droitwich is roomy, but that one next to the railroad looks like a carpark in a downtown area. Very cramped.

In all your boating nude have you met any others of the same inclination.
Is there a nude boating contingent, albeit unorganized?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 14, 2015, 11:45:51 PM
Duane, you may remember last year I visited JOhn's boat at Droitwich, but sadly not with him on it! 
Droitwich Marina is indeed a good berth and we navigated up to Droitwich and did a little shopping, coffee & ice cream and then returned back to the Worcester & Birmingham canal.

Peering in through the window, Ernest is a nice boat - medium sized (50' is, JOhn?)and unlike the average rental boat is kitted out for two people to live in comfort, not 4-6 so there is space for a living room and room for armchairs and a desk kitted out to dock the laptop, which I was rather impressed with!  Quite a home from home!

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 19, 2015, 07:44:11 PM
There are some enterprising women in New York City that are pushing the boundaries of the top free ordinance in NYC. In other venues using paint will get you a pass from local authorities. NYC has had a topless law on the books for a few years and the universe hasn't imploded. I suppose it was inevitable that someone would come up with a means of earning a living off of a new law.

It is impossible to define art in the court or precinct. As a supreme court justice once remarked when asked to define obscenity, "I know it when I see it", such is the likely end result of performance art. Maybe there should be a distinction between "entertainment' and "art", but no one wants to define it for fear of an unintended consequence. Maybe that's a good thing.

Video of the ladies and their comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67TP-uzxcY0

This report at attempts to show both sides of the story. The NY Daily News is apparently the tabloid that is only focused on selling papers by using shock tactics.
http://gothamist.com/2015/08/17/naked_times_square_struggle.php

The article mentions turf fights among the “performers”. One might wonder if the displays may degrade into spontaneous wrestling matches. With everything qualifying these days as art, it might be possible.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/nyregion/the-desnudas-of-times-square-topless-but-for-the-paint.html?_r=0

Looking at the videos and pictures, the kids watching the “adult” performers and viewers seem to vary between amusement and bewilderment. None seem to be terrified as the articles suggest.
http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2015/08/19/mayor-vows-to-bring-about-regulation-of-topless-painted-ladies-in-times-square.html

Curiously, here in Las Vegas, the buskers downtown are running afoul of the city officials whom are scrambling to appear in control of inventive street performers. In the Fremont Street Experience, which is a major attraction for tourists, it can get a little weird with all of them vying for the tourist dollars. There has recently been proposed an ordinance that would codify the rules for street performers. Neither Nevada or Las Vegas are a topfree zone. The Painted Ladies would definitely get arrested here.

Oddly enough DeBlasio, a left leaning democrat, is leading the push to regulate. He seems to think NYPD is a department needed to help decide the procedures. A police department is only supposed to enforce, not propose regulation. A strange couple of bedfellows there.

Google these women and their activities and you will get more than enough reading about a seeming harmless group of people.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 21, 2015, 06:40:38 PM
How to get naked for people who overanalyse things. Just DO IT for heaven's sake ....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/magazine/how-to-be-naked-in-public.html?_r=0

And another case of "nude therefore mentally disturbed"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/indiana-priest-church-pastor-found-naked-school/

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 23, 2015, 11:00:22 AM
I may side with the nude-but-disturbed camp in this case.
What possessed the man to exercise his nudity in such an inappropriate place?
Could there have been a logical explanation?  If not, then one might speculate that his judgment was sadly extremely, nay dangerously (to him) lacking.  Could he have been under the influence of something?

What is sad is that whilst millions are enjoying their healthy, uplifting naturist preference in safe and / or secluded circumstances, it is these rare exceptions where inappropriate nudity is discovered that get the prurient, sensationalist publicity.

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 23, 2015, 08:38:16 PM
I agree. One might argue it was his intent.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 24, 2015, 12:21:42 AM
Lots of parades today and this weekend for GoTopless Day. Since it's legal in NYC the news reports are showing the women as is without any photoshop additions, the news organizations don't have to worry about lawsuits. At least the untouched pictures are becoming more normal. Nothing remarkable as it's legal for a woman to be topless in NYC. Some political comments can still be classified in the grandstanding catagory.

A couple of other sites of parades. A New York City (http://gothamist.com/2014/08/25/nsfw_photos_women_bare_breasts_in_n.php#photo-13) parade, another one (http://www.cox.com/myconnection/today/news/national/article.cox?articleId=d41e0c0f4349497bbab1fca2b6acdbfd&moduleType=apNews) here. At least somewhere other than the east or west coast in this Minnesota parade (http://www.minnpost.com/minnpost-asks/2015/08/go-topless-day-minneapolis-one-woman-s-fight-freedom-bare-breasts).

There are at least a few places that are not legal that seem to be making headway. As usual there are sophmoric boys yukking it up and taking pictures of "BOOBS". Not the event, not the parade, or the women and other marchers, just the boobs. Nothing much has changed on that front.

As Bob says, a little more each time, and it is more accepted.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 24, 2015, 02:00:50 AM
I may side with the nude-but-disturbed camp in this case.
What possessed the man to exercise his nudity in such an inappropriate place?
John

I'm sorry but I disagree that there is any inappropriate place for human beings to be seen as human beings.   I strongly disagree with those who attack and shame this priest. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 24, 2015, 10:23:58 AM
Pastor steps down after being found naked in school

We don’t know what time of day or night that he was nude in the school. We don’t know, where in the school, halls, classrooms, office, etc. We don’t know why he was nude. Was he being free range and has other nude activities? Did he have a secret naturist inclination and went for it. Was it a way for a man in a boring contained lifestyle to release, or rebel, or just get a rush and feel more alive? Did he have the notion to be seen, found out, or not? Did he know that the secretary was there? She didn’t know that he was there. She’s the one who freaked out and called. The police weren’t in a position to do anything, apparently.  I remember one Saturday, I was at my small school getting caught up, and began to entertain the idea of wishing that I could do this nude and comfortably, and the fun that it would be to be working nude in an inappropriate place, but I didn’t let go to the impulse and stayed carefully professional. I thought that I was alone and nearly jumped out of my skin at the copy machine, when as I contemplated this, the secretary came out of nowhere. I had been certain that I was alone and wouldn’t have even considered it, or thought of it otherwise. Maybe, the priest just went with it. Maybe he thought that he was alone.

I don’t see a great deal of what is “appropriate” in school settings, especially church run, as actually appropriate, myself.  The atmosphere is nutty and unhealthy in many ways. One has to accept these nutty ways, just as the game, if you want to be paid and be privileged to give something to kids. I think that the artificial, just plain wrong notion of repression of nudity, dress codes and the like are wholly overblown. The reality is play your role, keep your persona, costume and control, but that doesn’t make it right.

I’m also disagreeing with Nuduke on this one. I go along with what Bob says, “I disagree that there is any inappropriate place for human beings to be seen as human beings.   I strongly disagree with those who attack and shame this priest.” BUT, I see the priest shaming himself as well. It may only be my imagination, but according to the system, he is supposed to be ashamed for his lapse and wrong doing. That is, if he believes the game is real and healthy. He resigns, because as is the game, he can do nothing else in his position. Perhaps he recognizes it as a game (as I did) and his nude antics are to him another game. He played and lost. He repents and he still has a job somewhere in the church, it passes. If he tries to hold on and he exposes his true self, he gets booted.  SN takes a big risk and gets caught, but like Bob says, it shouldn’t be a risk in the first place.

 I hope that I understand Bob’s point, and don’t misrepresent him. My apologies if I just did.

It is a shame, as Nuduke offers us, that this kind of publicity has a message that says nudity is bad, shameful, a lie and a disgrace. A priest or authority can have no humanity in many ways under severe punishment systemically and that is a wrong in my book. The priest could stand up and declare that he has done no wrong and stand his ground as it opened up under his feet and he dropped to Hell. Perhaps, the priest HAS declared that he has been a hypocrite. Perhaps he has decided to end his lie, or perhaps extend it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 24, 2015, 05:42:43 PM
There is a scene in the play and movie "Fiddler on the Roof" where Tevye is in a discussion with two other men in a bar and they are all disagreeing. At one point he tells one, "You know, you are right". At a later point when listening to the opposing view, he tells the other, "You are right". The other man challenges him and states both can't be right. He looks at him and says, "You know, you are right too".

This is one of those scenes.

It is too bad the thing blew up and he had to resign. I suspect that Jbee is right that he just wasn't thinking. Being innocently nude shouldn't be viewed that way. But it is. To ignore that there might be consequences is to fool yourself. This is what I meant by he might have subconsciously wanted this to happen.

I hope that all turns out well and I also agree with Bob that he shouldn't be shamed for what happened. There are always people ready and waiting to make political points over anything.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 27, 2015, 10:50:07 PM
Hang on a mo!

I entirely agree with Bob's statement.  The naked body should be considered neither unusual, wrong, shameful or anything else negative.  In the proverbial 'ideal world', that Priest or anyone else should be able to go about their business dressed or undressed however they like without fear of shame or repercussion.  I wasn't arguing that point, chaps.

The problem is not whether being naked is ok or not (it is ok!), the problem is the opinions about nudity held by other people.  And my point was that the Priest in exercising what should be his natural right, did not take account of the position of disapproval created by some people that he risked crossing (appropriate metaphor for a priest!) and in the end did cross, and did come into conflict with , by his incautious nudity.

I think both Jbee and Duane also make this point.  The right to be nude may be an inalienable one but there are those who just don't accept that. It actually matters little why the Priest was naked, what he was naked for or what the surrounding circumstances were.  The fact is he was persecuted for exercising his inalienable right in a place where others considered it to be alienable and perhaps he should have recognised that and taken precautions, like we all do, to be able to co-exist in peace with those opposing opinions and people.

But it is evident that our friend the Pastor was surrounded by such opposing views because he was not tolerated when he was observed and someone called the police (although the lenient action of the police is to be praised).

The years of correspondence on TSNS and here are rippled through and through with the main theme of our existence as a group and our secrecy - or perhaps better expressed - our exercise of our preference to be naked out of the sight of disapproval by those members of mainstream society who do disapprove, in order not to be persecuted and 'punished' by those people and thus coexist in peace. 

Thus our very own Secret Naturist existence makes my point for me which is that the Priest did what he did in circumstances of danger to himself, rather than actively taking steps to mitigate the risk, and those risks came to pass in his being observed and now persecuted by the disapproving observers.

In supporting his right to be nude we may be accused of naïve credulousness in implying that he was innocently going about some sort of business where the fact of his nudity was irrelevant.  Maybe we should be more warily sceptical and question his motives in defence of ourselves and our kindred spirits?  Who knows?  Perhaps his intention was to shock?  Perhaps he was psychologically challenged?  Perhaps he was displaying some sort of perversion which would damage the sanctity of nudity and the fight for the right to be so? Perhaps he was foolishly, credulously, innocently thinking he could get away with it and that nobody would mind.

Therefore I re-nail myself again to the same cross as I have just been crucified on - if he were a real, innocent, intelligent, natural naturist, he might have been expected to exercise better judgment than he did.  I take umbrage that there might be any implication that I am not in the same camp as Bob in believing that there is no inappropriate place for human beings to be seen as human beings.  I contend that Bob's rather brief and general statement did not sufficiently recognise that other people's opinions differ as I am utterly sure Bob knows too.  So therefore as naturists we should find ways to educate, integrate and emancipate our preference and that means having the judgment to choose to convince or confront other people to change their opinions in circumstances which are productive to that change.  The Priest did not choose his moment or location well, in my view, and therefore didn't spread the word of peace and enlightenment about nudity; quite the reverse.  Hence my initial remark
Quote
What possessed the man to exercise his nudity in such an inappropriate place?
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 28, 2015, 01:33:07 AM
I looked up umbrage in Merriam-Websters. Uh sorry Nuduke.

 Speaking if Bob. That fire has been in his neck of the woods and it seems like he hasn't posted since that. I read a report that no structures had been done in during the quarter million acre fire. I've been concerned that it disrupted his life. The smoke has been thick clear up in the timberline.

Ah ha! I have found a post by him, yesterday and today.
Will that fire affect your off site naturism, Bob?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on August 30, 2015, 02:57:41 PM
Once again as I try to come to grips that some in the religious orders are actually human.
http://www.rt.com/usa/313771-drone-sunbather-wind-turbine/

As I mentioned in an earlier post today maybe there is more fear from drones for those who need to keep a low profile.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: balead on August 30, 2015, 04:36:41 PM
What a perfect place for sunbathing naked - or at least it would seem to be. He wasn't, but that is both amazing and scary.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 30, 2015, 04:44:30 PM
As I mentioned in an earlier post today maybe there is more fear from drones for those who need to keep a low profile.

A few  years back when Google Earth first came out there was a list of backyard nudists who could be seen on Google's Earth Cam.  Whether from space, from airplanes, or from drones, when we are out and about as human beings we may be photographed.   My way of dealing with it is to recognize that I intend to be seen and appreciated as a human being without having to hide myself.  I sometimes remind myself that IF I were concerned about being seen naked, I would be clothed.  I'm not concerned.  I expect to be seen.  I am me.  If someone doesn't like seeing me, that is not my problem.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 30, 2015, 07:53:24 PM
Same for me - I don't really care whether I'n seen or not but I DO care about offending anybody with delicate susceptibilities.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 01, 2015, 01:57:11 AM
I don't care about my body being seen. My only concern is the wrong person seeing me in such a way as to breach the law and cause me unjust troubles that I don't need.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 06, 2015, 10:04:25 PM
http://gu.com/p/4c56t/sbl

This think piece appeared in The Guardian the other day

Peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on September 06, 2015, 11:25:33 PM
It did.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 07, 2015, 01:35:54 AM
Thanks for sharing.  I posted it to Facebook on a page about nudism.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on September 08, 2015, 12:08:27 AM
OK
1) I'm with Bob, JOhn and Jbee on the subject of whether I care about being seen.  I don't care a jot about what is seen of me or being seen or who sees.  But I double agree with JOhn & Jbee that one would wish to avoid giving offence, as in any situation not just controversial nudity (unless giving offence had a positive purpose), and, along Jbee's argument, one definitely would not wish to be seen by someone who would then bring bad consequences by their reaction e.g. going to the law.  Since one does not know in advance who will take offence and who might act on the encounter to try and censure, in my world considerable doscretion is needed to avoid unnecessary  encounters.  I think Bob has a solid argument that says he should be able to do just what he likes within reason (that includes being naked!) when on his own, private property and that if someone happens to be able to see that by active looking then tough, their responsibility is just to pass on by with discretion, if they don't approve and they should be severely punished for trouble making as a result of their opinion about nudity.

2) Man on wind turbine - that's so cool!  It made me wonder if my mild vertigo would let me do the same if the opportunity arose.  I think if the distance from the middle to the edge was longer than a fall to the deck, I think I'd be alright.  But if shorter I'd be a trembling wreck! 

I suppose one has to pick fairly clement days to go up there!  When the rotor is going is there a breeze or is it calmer since the blades have extracted some energy from the wind?  I guess near the axis there's be little difference to the wind force.  Come on you Engineers!  Let's have some theories or knowledge. 

And what more unique, private and inoffensive location could one choose!  That guy is cool! 

But it is indeed a worrying phenomenon that drones are now able to peer and pry almost anywhere.  Is there no regulation?  You wouldn't be allowed to just take pictures anywhere of anyone if you were on foot.  So how does a drone make it moral to pry?

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: milfmog on September 09, 2015, 01:25:08 PM
...it is indeed a worrying phenomenon that drones are now able to peer and pry almost anywhere.  Is there no regulation?  You wouldn't be allowed to just take pictures anywhere of anyone if you were on foot.  So how does a drone make it moral to pry?

John,

there are lots of rules and regulations about the piloting of drones in the UK, including a ban on flying within 50m of any building or person (that's 50 meters in any direction, including vertically). However, few drone owners know what the rules are and even fewer care given that the Civil Aviation Authority (CA) seem not to have any resource to enforce the rules.

As for cameras anyone in a public place or visible from a public place can be photographed, all that has changed is how easy it is to get the camera to less accessible spots. Adding a camera to a drone does change the operating rules, but makes little difference in practice due to the inadequate enforcement environment.

Have fun,


Ian.

PS I don't suffer from vertigo to any great degree, but I can't say I'd fancy sunbathing on top of a wind turbine...
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 09, 2015, 04:28:01 PM
Not because I particularly care about being droned, but I do enjoy those occasional stories about the pesky things getting shot down by annoyed shotgun owners!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/naked-sunbather-bewildering-manchester-office-workers-10492654.html

On a different note, the above story tells of a nude sunbather who has been entertaining nearby office workers for months, until one decided she wanted her 15 minutes in the limelight and decided to make a fuss. Go figure ....

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 09, 2015, 09:11:30 PM
Shot gun was my immediate thought. I'd enjoy those stories, too. I wonder, would the law sit on, destruction of private property, privacy rights, firing a firearm in an urban area? Depends I suppose.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 09, 2015, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: nudewalker
Once again as I try to come to grips that some in the religious orders are actually human.

As I mentioned in an earlier post today maybe there is more fear from drones for those who need to keep a low profile.

People that do this sort of thing with drones are no different than peeping toms. It's one thing to be walking around and see someone naked and take a picture, but to fly a craft intentionally to seek out people to spy on?

I've heard rumors that ammo companies have come up with a load designed to knock a drone down. Don't know if that's urban legend or the real deal, but I don't have an objection to it.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 10, 2015, 08:11:09 AM
Quote from: nudewalker
Once again as I try to come to grips that some in the religious orders are actually human.

As I mentioned in an earlier post today maybe there is more fear from drones for those who need to keep a low profile.

People that do this sort of thing with drones are no different than peeping toms. It's one thing to be walking around and see someone naked and take a picture, but to fly a craft intentionally to seek out people to spy on?

I've heard rumors that ammo companies have come up with a load designed to knock a drone down. Don't know if that's urban legend or the real deal, but I don't have an objection to it.

Duane
I haven't been to a gun shop in many years. I kinda fell out, just a dab of target shooting every couple of years. I suppose that it is about time to investigate surface to air trajectory. The spread could be different than skeet shooting, I wonder if the load is used in a shotgun, or common calibers.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on September 10, 2015, 03:34:31 PM
There are a couple of other forums I frequent but have not joined as their nudist ideals are not in tune with mine. They do offer some insight into things we discuss only from another perspective. In the drone thread of their forum the main concern is discharging a firearm in the city limits. Despite the peeping tom aspect it seems that law enforcement takes a dim view of a gun. Their solution was either a paintball gun or maybe a slingshot. There was an incident near here where a drone operator, who said he working with a real estate agent, took photos of a woman sunbathing on her deck. Once the video was observed by law enforcement he was charged with invasion of privacy. Haven't heard anything since but if it goes to court I'll try to post links.

Oh, and the dreaded 15 minutes of fame! I would hope she becomes ostracized from her work group for spoiling a good thing. Now can you imagine the frustration of the local police if the building had been under watch for months and by calling the paper it blew the whole operation? Am I reading too much into the story?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 11, 2015, 07:54:50 PM
The paintball solution is silent, but the fallout could be messy for someone else and they are very inaccurate. I'd like to suggest air-soft, BB, or better a competition quality pellet gun, all relatively silent. There may be more sport to it than a skeet shoot with a shot gun. They are slower and hang around, making a fine target.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 11, 2015, 11:27:01 PM
I'm wondering if the drone operator has a video recording of you shooting down his drone?  Or, does the video go down with the ship?   Anyone know? 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on September 12, 2015, 12:33:40 PM
I'm wondering if the drone operator has a video recording of you shooting down his drone?  Or, does the video go down with the ship?   Anyone know?
If the camera is doing the recording internally it would depend on whether the recording was recoverable when the remains are found.
If it is simply a camera transmitting to a base station then anything the base station is recording will be retained.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 12, 2015, 06:57:35 PM
Found a link to this article about naked and changing attitudes in New York City

http://observer.com/2015/07/naked-in-new-york-why-more-of-us-are-taking-it-all-off/

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5664/20736674504_efecf30098.jpg)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on September 14, 2015, 01:44:00 AM
Maybe the answer to unwelcome drones would be battle drones to knock 'em out of the sky!  If you could somehow drop some loose string on a drone and its propellers that'd probably get it down with a minimum of damage (unless it plummeted from a great height!)

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 16, 2015, 12:27:21 AM
Quote from: John
Maybe the answer to unwelcome drones would be battle drones to knock 'em out of the sky!  If you could somehow drop some loose string on a drone and its propellers that'd probably get it down with a minimum of damage (unless it plummeted from a great height!)

John

There was a fire in S. California near the Cajon Pass and rescue, firefighting and Park Service helicopters had to leave for about 30-40 min. till the drones being flown in were cleared out. I don’t know how they did it, hopefully knocked them out but there was a big backlash because it endangered the fire fighting effort.

There have been other incidents near airports and sporting venues that have aerial coverage. It will eventually get regulated and if you do something stupid you will be found out.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 16, 2015, 03:42:29 AM

There was a fire in S. California near the Cajon Pass and rescue, firefighting and Park Service helicopters had to leave for about 30-40 min. till the drones being flown in were cleared out. I don’t know how they did it, hopefully knocked them out but there was a big backlash because it endangered the fire fighting effort.
Duane


Probably an electronic jammer would drop a drone out of the sky.   If you look on-line there is probably one available, or in a "hacker" group. 
Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: milfmog on September 16, 2015, 11:53:48 AM
Probably an electronic jammer would drop a drone out of the sky.   If you look on-line there is probably one available, or in a "hacker" group. 
Bob
The jammer might well get rid of them, but many of them have a GPS system (GPS is getting very cheap now) and a return to base option, so that if they lose communication with the transmitter they simply go to a predetermined location and land.

Good result if you want rid of them and no criminal damage charges.

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 16, 2015, 04:02:12 PM
Probably an electronic jammer would drop a drone out of the sky.   If you look on-line there is probably one available, or in a "hacker" group. 
Bob
The jammer might well get rid of them, but many of them have a GPS system (GPS is getting very cheap now) and a return to base option, so that if they lose communication with the transmitter they simply go to a predetermined location and land.

Good result if you want rid of them and no criminal damage charges.

Have fun,
Ian.


A year or two ago some kids from a university in the US demonstrated that it wasn't hard to take over and control a large military type drone.  The news stories seemed to say that they used a much closer and thus more powerful control signal. From there the drone listened to the more powerful signal.  I suspect that similar devices to take over cheap robo drones either are or soon will be available if you look for them.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 18, 2015, 02:44:10 PM
Women Only Skinny Dipping

This from ITV News.  Women Only skinny dipping day.   Getting women involved in swimming naked.

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-09/women-only-skinnydipping-event-to-boost-body-confidence/

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 18, 2015, 09:26:55 PM
Probably an electronic jammer would drop a drone out of the sky.   If you look on-line there is probably one available, or in a "hacker" group. 
Bob
The jammer might well get rid of them, but many of them have a GPS system (GPS is getting very cheap now) and a return to base option, so that if they lose communication with the transmitter they simply go to a predetermined location and land.

Good result if you want rid of them and no criminal damage charges.

Have fun,
Ian.


A year or two ago some kids from a university in the US demonstrated that it wasn't hard to take over and control a large military type drone.  The news stories seemed to say that they used a much closer and thus more powerful control signal. From there the drone listened to the more powerful signal.  I suspect that similar devices to take over cheap robo drones either are or soon will be available if you look for them.

Bob
I assume that the correct frequency would be a factor. Was there any mention of that?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 18, 2015, 09:33:41 PM
Women Only Skinny Dipping

This from ITV News.  Women Only skinny dipping day.   Getting women involved in swimming naked.

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-09/women-only-skinnydipping-event-to-boost-body-confidence/
I see no skinny women with large bulbous breasts at this demonstration. I'd be curious what the reaction would be.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 18, 2015, 10:34:19 PM
I see no skinny women with large bulbous breasts at this demonstration. I'd be curious what the reaction would be.
Jbee


Most of the women are covered in the photos, but several are not skinny so on can presume that their breasts were not skinny either.  I'm not sure how large you mean.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 19, 2015, 02:38:54 PM
I see no skinny women with large bulbous breasts at this demonstration. I'd be curious what the reaction would be.
Jbee


Most of the women are covered in the photos, but several are not skinny so on can presume that their breasts were not skinny either.  I'm not sure how large you mean.

Bob

The model on the billboard sign, in the article, is thin with breast that appear bulbous. Although they do exist like that, it is unusual. They are made a big deal of. Many bras are sold to make breast look that way. The commercial ideal showing up amongst other body types. I wonder how would others might react to such a woman.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 20, 2015, 11:17:11 PM
Just read a report of a North Carolina teenager who's been prosecuted for having naked pictures of himself on his own phone. He's 17 but the pictures were taken when he was 16, so he's been prosecuted for sexually exploiting a minor. Himself.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 21, 2015, 04:46:35 AM
Just read a report of a North Carolina teenager who's been prosecuted for having naked pictures of himself on his own phone. He's 17 but the pictures were taken when he was 16, so he's been prosecuted for sexually exploiting a minor. Himself.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Peter


Laws about photos of "under age" youth are not about nudity, not about photos, and they are not about under age. They are about hate. The law was created to send normal men to prison, normal men who have normal sexual desires about women of breeding age, women who are ready and able to produce healthy children. Its not about nude and its not about pictures. Its about hate.

This 17 year old is now a man and should be destroyed according to the anti-men haters. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 21, 2015, 08:28:46 AM
It may be a poorly written law is confusing a very ignorant bureaucrat, who doesn't understand the intent of the poorly written law, but needs to defend his authority, and be absolutely righteously correct and so jumps to conclusions, completely missing the point, the rationale, the common sense, who is blind to reasoning, and entirely obedient to the law. Or who is sleeping with the kids mom, or is getting back at the family with abuse of power, or...there is another one of those Forest Gump, stupid is as stupid does in the south, or... I...am confused. Surely this can't be real, it does not compute...hmm, there used to be laws against masturbation, and there probably still are. Do you think that some idiot actually thinks that that makes sense?

Hate isn't even this senseless and irrational...isn't it? Fear ain't this stupid...I don't think...maybe so...I dunno....

Weird,
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 21, 2015, 06:49:52 PM
The piece also mentions that in N Carolina it's legal to have sex at 16. Presumably kids have to do it with their eyes shut if looking at a naked body is illegal at that age ....

Here's a link to it

http://news.sky.com/story/1556053/teen-given-probation-for-nude-photo-on-phone

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on September 28, 2015, 05:51:47 PM
I could get into the reasons consent age is 16 but it is not necessary to drag up those kinds of accusations here. The surprise here is that they used a federal law to prosecute them. Typical, if it suits them then they use the federal law but if it doesn't they claim states rights! As there is no federal law outlawing simple nudity it is up to the states and local governments to enact statutes that should reflect the majority of the populace. Once again, it is usually the most vocal that get their way.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on September 30, 2015, 06:23:16 PM
Pete,

I'm sure you have twigged this one but what the lad got probation for in my reading of the article was not for possession of illegal photos when he was 17 but for transmitting the images when he was 16 thus committing a crime when he was 16.

It's still a completely potty legal mess!

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 30, 2015, 09:04:28 PM
The youthful things go away at the age of 18 here. Clean record, right to vote and have sex. But, you still can't be naked.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on October 13, 2015, 05:11:12 PM
http://www.ispot.tv/ad/A7LR/walgreens-carpe-med-diem

A few more people like this and perhaps nudity can become more commonplace! Sorry I missed the broadcast on TV but it was not on a channel I frequent. Kudos to Walgreens and the ad team.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on October 13, 2015, 05:59:20 PM
http://www.ispot.tv/ad/A7LR/walgreens-carpe-med-diem

A few more people like this and perhaps nudity can become more commonplace! Sorry I missed the broadcast on TV but it was not on a channel I frequent. Kudos to Walgreens and the ad team.
As coy as it would need to be for your side of the puddle.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 13, 2015, 07:44:26 PM
Good for Walgreens.   It makes going to a nude beach seem fun even for us old people. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 14, 2015, 12:11:27 AM
Smart, getting all out of life, liberation, lightening up, it's never to late, age is not a barrier. Not an eccentric  thing, not senility, but join us. All very positive. Made my day, grin on DF. What better associations could there be AND from big pharm! That's all of the same hype that they use to sell drugs to old people on TV, always healthy people with grey hair having fun, this time selling skinnydipping!...and control the news media's comments about their monopolies and their government control.
 
 I hope that there is great success for this and other advertisers will follow suit.

97% thumbs up, too.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on October 14, 2015, 04:48:14 PM
http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/miley-cyrus-perform-all-nude-concert-naked-audience-report-20151410

Not sure what to make of this one - announcing it is probably just a publicity stunt and nothing will come of it, but you never know ...

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on October 14, 2015, 08:27:51 PM
I recall a visit to the Andy Warhol Museum where the patrons were discussing the copper plates where celebrities had autographed with urine. As people talked more the conversation turned from it being gross to the principals of science and how it left a lasting mark on the plates. In other words; as people talked about it the conversation turned from disgust to civil. I'm not sure Miley is the right spokesperson but she may start a conversation. The more nudity is talked about the closer we become to achieving objectives. Not as good as the Walgreens commercial in my opinion but hopefully not a distraction.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 14, 2015, 09:10:03 PM
I'm not sure how many of her fans are over 18, the show connotes sex and naughty. It could turn into a grabfest, or worse. I'm not sure that people will separate that from simple nudity. It would be sure to make her tour fill up $$$. On the other hand, an auditorium filled with dancing nekkid people might work. After all, Woodstock did wonders for a generation. These days....
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 15, 2015, 01:34:17 AM
When celebrities like Miley Cyrus go naked it very publicly displays the thought that naked is only another choice of costume.   When the audience goes naked as well, all the thousands of people in the audience have an opportunity to experience nakedness in public.  They are naked and see thousands of people naked without suffering any harm. 

Good for Ms. Cyrus.  The more that nudity is public and not hidden, the more acceptable it becomes for everyone. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 16, 2015, 10:50:02 AM
I suppose that you all have seen this, but just in case you have yet to be stunned. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/14/playboy-abolishes-nude-defeat-art-history

No more nudes in Playboy!?!

It may be the beginning of the end...of something, or everything, Hell freezes or something.

800,000 readers at several dollars each and they loose money? How much does it cost to....
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on October 16, 2015, 01:04:31 PM
I suppose that you all have seen this, but just in case you have yet to be stunned. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/14/playboy-abolishes-nude-defeat-art-history

No more nudes in Playboy!?!

It may be the beginning of the end...of something, or everything, Hell freezes or something.

800,000 readers at several dollars each and they loose money? How much does it cost to....
Jbee
Plus the advertising revenue. ;D
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 16, 2015, 03:37:55 PM
I suppose that you all have seen this, but just in case you have yet to be stunned. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/14/playboy-abolishes-nude-defeat-art-history

No more nudes in Playboy!?!
Jbee


Playboy Magazine has been published by females for the past few decades.  Their purpose for existing, "Entertainment for Men" has faded into history.  And the females have finally killed their most important entertainment feature. 

When I was in college in the  late 1960s we wallpapered our bathroom with foldouts.  I quit reading when the female took over as Editor and Publisher.  She may be a good editor, but she does not have the perspective to really understand what "Entertainment for Men" feels like. 

Bpb
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on October 16, 2015, 04:30:44 PM
At least you can say that you read the magazine for the articles! I haven't read one in years therefore there is no way I can comment on it's editorial value. Very much the same as a male doing the same job at Cosmo; there has to be a gender based slant on things. No nudes? With what is available for free on the internet there is not the value of launching a starlets career or resurrecting an old one that posing nude in Playboy anymore. In the 60's the value the foldouts had as wallpaper was almost the price of the magazine. Although I suspect my room mates shoplifted most of them.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 16, 2015, 05:39:12 PM
Quote from: Jbee
800,000 readers at several dollars each and they loose money? How much does it cost to.... ?

Fancy digs, high life, health care, retirements and golden parachutes to mention a few.

I remember the 1st issue I ever bought and READ was the one with the Jimmy Carter interview. Some of the best short stories I ever read were in Playboy. They payed top dollar for top talent to publish. I had an English professor that recommended it for the writing.

Even though all the photos were touched up, the magazine had it's place in every boys growing up experiences.

Tempus fugit!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 16, 2015, 06:44:44 PM
Wall AND ceiling paper.

I haven't opened a Playboy in decades. It was at the cutting edge of a social revolution, even a leadership role. Then it produced an expose too political for the changing power in 1980. Losses were cut and they huddled into a safer apolitical hedonistic mode merely presenting a model of excesses.

You can get only so much mileage out of excesses. I still could identify with it, for several years. I got into fatherhood and monogamy, like Hef. I continued to identify with it. Then, he discovered that the new "best recreational drug ever" Viagra and the old guy is pictured in bed with three models, the kid toys were out of the ballroom. But, how do you get the younger next gen into that image?

There is a problem now. There are images and every manner of...well, the internet, BUT there is little brass tack how to have a healthy sex life for young people of both sexes. Playboy used to provide that, the king of that. I haven't been past the cover in 25 years, and even that has been kept from us here, off the magazine stand. Our society could use another Playbook. There is a younger gen out there who haven't a clue.They might need another leader and icon like Hef to give them information. Young people have hedonistic hiphop videos that don't have articles to read, nor substance.

I welcome the end of the idealized female body. More and more, I see changes from the Playboy body. Body style has changed from MM bomb boobs, to thinner, to now Big butt can be in. Still there is so much exposure in the media that many body types are being accepted as idealized. Women are much much less objectified. Their role in society has expanded and they are addressed as people everyday, as friends and equals, not those stats on the back page of the foldout. The article talked about art and people enjoying the nude body through time. Look at the rest of this website and we find two people who are real and as they are. There is expression and context and that is art. That's a big change from brush-marks on some fantasy of the girl next door.

We can't know what has happened in the decision rooms at Playboy Enterprises. A woman heading a men's mag poorly, a team of both sexes, or who knows how to exploit male hormones better than a woman. I have picked up that Hef has kept abreast and participated nonstop to varying degrees, all of these years. Has anyone here actually been between the pages in the last twenty years?

Mostly, I find things as two headed. Body acceptance and body freedom would not be where it is today without Playboy breaking the mold that came before it. There is still more work to do and breaking out of the problematic pieces of the old Playboy mold is necessary, and apparently taking care of itself.
Jus'sayin'
Jbee


   

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on October 18, 2015, 12:48:47 AM
Well, 2 substantial responses to add here - serves me right for being away for nearly 5 days!  Must be a record.  Sorry chaps, I have been so busy with new house and bedding into new community that haven't had much time for recreational time online! 

So, first:  Walgreens ad.  What makes this a positive contribution is, I think, 2 factors:- 1) the positive depiction of older women and 2) about 0.5 seconds of it where you see the women's faces as they decide to go on the nude beach and their expressions are not ones of 'oooer!' Carry-On film-style prurience or indecision.  They just know it's the right thing to do and have no hesitation in going naked and running on to the beach indicating enthusiasm - in fact their sarongs throughout might suggest that they were intending to go to the nude beach.  They are also I think, a depiction of modern seniors who are not afraid to follow their inclinations.  Hooray for Walgreens.  I dare say that the ad had a lot of discussion before it was made!

Second:  Playboy:  Obviously the magazine feels it can compete in the world of magazines without the nudes.  In this day and age, I agree with them. I think that the depiction of female beauty in that sexually titillating way has passed on.  In it's heyday the magazine content was no doubt read after it's 'primary purpose' had been employed.  Even in the 60's Playboy and Penthouse were quite an anodyne style of representation of female nudes, marketing their style on the combination of hypocritical provision of serious articles and content, but existing principally because of the airbrushed, soft focus, soft porn content (in contrast to the more raunchy or sexually suggestive content of other 'top shelf' magazines, where the editorial content was entirely lacking!).

Whilst I can align with Jbee's indication that the emergence of the modern mass circulation porn industry, in whose vanguard Playboy and the like appeared, created an up-front, non-clandestine view of nudity depicted for sexual titillation, and thus brought some aspects of nudity into public consciousness and acceptance of their normality, I nevertheless have to roundly disagree with Jbee's comment: 
Quote
Body acceptance and body freedom would not be where it is today without Playboy breaking the mold
  I feel that the contribution of the 'glamour' magazines surely has been quite the reverse.  Playboy and publications of that ilk always connoted nudity with sexual titillation and, as such, probably cemented the opinions of millions that nudity was to be avoided and hated because of those connotations.  Additionally the men's magazines were so called because that's what they were!  The epitome of the male gaze - the objectification of idealised female bodies depicted and projected in ways that created appreciation in a sexual way by men and therefore tended to alienate women.  Playboy and it's concomitant men's' clubs, bunnies, Heffner the pyjama-clad, lothario stud etc., in my opinion must have set back by at least a generation the cause of neutral and positive body acceptance, that allows naturism to be acceptable for its healthy and non-sexual nature.  The positive images of the Walgreens advert are but a small shovelful of clearance of the foetid heap of prurient negativity about nudity that the men's magazines and the porn industry in general have deposited on life's highway.

I agree though with jbee's observation that the modern porn industry, churning out huge amounts of naked bodies cavorting in all manner of congress, does not perhaps project the singular view of nudity that Playboy and it's ilk did and does.  Accessibly, on the web, there is such a huge amount of depiction of nakedness and bodies of all sorts, in apparently consensual sexual circumstances, that it seems to me, as an occasional student of the genre (hem hem!), that the nakedness becomes simply a normal and natural part of such depictions and nudity becomes an accessory detached somewhat from the connotation of sexual taboo. 

John

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on October 18, 2015, 04:07:22 PM
Just a few more observations concerning the week's activity here. It was noted on another forum I frequent but am not a member that we should patronize Walgreens to the point of writing the CEO to thank him for the positive commercial. Perhaps a spike in sales would convince others that nudists are a viable market and would make others follow suit? Might I ad that a snowball effect could open up more avenues for nude recreation?

Second, the idea of Playboy dropping nudes is in some way related to the Chinese market and the prudish censorship the government has there? Just putting it out there as a thought; not that I have anything to base it on. As Linda Richmond used to say, "Talk among yourselves, I'll give you a topic".
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 18, 2015, 08:49:35 PM
In response to Nuduke. I'm looking at playboy as planting the very  basic ideas "party naked" and "sex good." This appealed to both sexes. I never met a woman other than a hard core feminist that objected to Playboy. They were interested, it was fun. Idealized beauty was always pushed everywhere else, even women's mags. These two basic ideas, I'm saying, were like two steps in the right direction and one back, give or take. Playboy just really led a couple of generations to lighten up. It was a much more sick, repressed, unhealthy society before that influence. Now, we have to deal with the damage caused by the medication (Playboy).

I think that I'll write Walgreens encouragement and thanks.

Playboy used to have tailored publications to each region and different countries. Maybe they are still doing that with the Chinese?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on October 19, 2015, 12:56:06 AM
Ok, jbee
I get your wider picture and that does seem like a reasonably balanced view.  It does seem that, in your experience and society of the time, the acceptance of Playboy content was more emancipated than in the UK in the 60's and 70's. 

Whilst porn magazines were on controlled open sale in the UK at that time (top shelf out of reach of children), they were not considered nice nor appealing to other than men and indeed men who read them furtively and were assumed to use them as an aid to masturbation.  This was a very prevalent view and one of the tenets of the women's movement arising in the 70's was the desire to limit or expunge the exploitative view of women that these magazines promulgated and fed to male readers. 

I think it's less so nowadays but as you indicate, jbee, the appearance of Playboy and the like was a symptom of a positively changing and emancipating attitude to sex, yet like many innovations only went so far and, as you say, as a vector of that societal change, the men's magazines left some repairs to be done.  A parallel, I guess, would to consider how industries used to be dangerous to work in and left waste and contamination, yet brought advances in technology, and over time have realised their dirty, dangerous legacy and have gradually cleaned themselves up and become safer to work in. We are still in the second phase with the legacy of the men's magazines, I opine.

John

John 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on October 20, 2015, 06:26:07 AM
Another case of a free ranger being spotted -and condemned by the plod. This time it was on British Naturism's doorstep and they're fighting back.

From the Northampton Chronicle:

A naturism group has criticised a police force for saying walking naked along a bridlepath in Northamptonshire was “obviously unacceptable behaviour”.


Officers received several reports recently of a man walking along a path near the Bedfordshire border naked.

PC Katherine Hardy, from Bedfordshire Police, said: “This is obviously unacceptable behaviour and I would urge anyone with information to contact us.”

However, deputy campaign director for British Naturism, Juliette Gill, said the comment was “totally inappropriate”.

“Being naked is not illegal in England and Wales and the Crown Prosecution Service’s own guidelines state that unless there is a sexual context or the public were actually caused harassment, alarm and distress legal action will not normally be taken.

“We don’t know the intent of the man concerned in this report. However, for PC Hardy to advise that it was obviously unacceptable behaviour without knowing the circumstances seems totally inappropriate.

“We have a presumption in this country that someone is innocent until proven guilty and that principle does not appear to have applied here.”

Ms Gill said the matter was going to be raised with the police by the organisation.

British Naturism has its headquarters in Northampton.

“We promote nudity as a social, healthy and wholesome lifestyle for individuals and families and campaign for public acceptance and the right to be naked outdoors,” she added.

“Are we really harming anyone by enjoying our lifestyle?”
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 20, 2015, 02:54:59 PM
Good for the British naturist group.   Public pressure on the plods is long overdue.   Demanding rights is a very good move.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on October 20, 2015, 05:40:20 PM
Just a quick follow up concerning the Walgreen's ad. I viewed it this morning while watching the Today Show and thought I'd check the link again. As of this morning it had a 92% to 8% favorable rating along with 1 comment out of 7 being negative.  My letter has gone to the CEO of Walgreens for support and kudos to the ad team. To me nudity goes a long way toward being happy and healthy!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 20, 2015, 08:57:06 PM
I always cringe when I hear the word "appropriate." It is so subjective, arbitrary, and often empty generalization. Good for BN, but they need to up their level of discourse from the level of the haughty, ignorant cop. I know that they can do that. Perhaps they were attempting to be reasonable instead of calling a spade a spade, like "totally illegal" or "totally fascist" or " totally offensive."
Jus' sayin'
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 20, 2015, 10:09:13 PM
You are right jbee.  BN is taking a step in the right direction but is hedging words and not being as aggressive as they easily could be in promoting acceptance of nude rambling.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on October 21, 2015, 06:29:03 AM
Ash, but hedging our words and bumbling around the subject is the British way, donchaknow! Politeness at all times, old bean. 😳
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 21, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Ash, but hedging our words and bumbling around the subject is the British way, donchaknow! Politeness at all times, old bean. 😳

That’s what I suspected. I grew up with that impression of the society of the isles. Where else could a bobbie patrol the streets and never carry a gun. Yet these days, I get mixed signals. There is the home of the Sex Pistols, Tony Balir, cantankerous examples of discourse on the BBC comedy shows, and fascist tactics by law enforcement that rival and team with the CIA, NSA. It is difficult to know if polite still exist as it once did, from the outside.

Fighting for something, where there are two diverse adversaries and one has declared a war against the other, one would be scrambling for the higher ground, readying for the coming engagement.  A firm and direct stance, a puffing out of the chest, stiff lipped response, placing the other on the defensive and drawing a line. She has made a public announcement in many more words explaining her organizations purpose, position and intent. I would think, “inappropriate” which can mean anything depending on a whim, thereby holding no water, could be replaced by, “ over reaching”” illegal” or kabang “irresponsible.”  The cop is acting like some kind of cowboy yahoo old west and making up his own laws, like some kind of autocratic little king…how’s about “outrageous.” The officer’s statement and intent is “shockingly outrageous” an “alarming overreach” “threatening everyone’s liberty.”

Perhaps he is considered the problem and to whom resolution will begin and end with. He sounds like one of those authorities who when threatened, immediately feel that they are cornered and over react with more overreach to maintain their position of perceived power. Sometimes it is better to offer candy to these people, rather than trying to coax the distrusting thing out of a corner. Perhaps the battle should be chosen and she has had her say. She certainly did a great job, stating BN position. It is amazing that she was quoted so rigorously. Here in USA, she would have used up WAY too many soundbites for our news media. Her points would never have been printed like that, but edited down by a reporter who hasn’t a clue. Here, if you want to be heard, you have to do a lot of bluster. Perhaps there is a political component, where the public discourse is different from the actuality.

I have been thinking of going to the county, or directly to the police department as an organization, although I probably will never find the time past the ponder stage. The idea is that nudity laws are stated as they are and need to be enforced as that. There is ignorance, abusing the intent of the law, by assumptive individual police officers. There needs to be an education for them. A training among their many other trainings and briefings.  There needs to be a policy statement, or guidelines for them. This would help to protect merely nude people from the potential and fear of devastating potential problems.

I would like to hear more about how this process unfolds. It would shed light on just how to, and how not to work with police departments. How do you get appointments, communicate through bureaucracy, of channels, procedures and busy (or not busy) people who could give a sh…?

To me, "appropriate" no longer is.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on October 25, 2015, 10:05:17 PM
I also applaud the BN response.  I wonder what the original 'offense' was?  What was the accused doing.  Probably just doing SN like us and was unlucky.

Quote from: nudewalker
To me nudity goes a long way toward being happy and healthy!
Well said, Nudewalker - a lot of truth there

Quote from: jbee
I always cringe when I hear the word "appropriate." It is so subjective, arbitrary, and often empty generalization.
  Ho ho, If you only knew how many times in corporate life I've dissembled and wriggled and escaped by using that word - the 'A' word! If you don't know how much, how often, how far or just how, then commitment to the 'Appropriate' effort/response/resource is your get out of jail card! ;D

Quote from: jbee
Where else could a bobbie patrol the streets and never carry a gun.
Whilst it is still moderately unusual to see armed police in the UK, it is becoming more frequent.  Twice in recent months in London I have encountered officers with automatic rifles and tazers hanging from their kevlar body armour (they weren't after me specifically, you understand!).  Last week at a main London rail station, having been passed by three armed officers, I asked a member of staff if there was something going on.  He replied that this was entirely routine and the armed police patrolled frequently. 

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 27, 2015, 03:22:39 AM
Quote from: jbee
I always cringe when I hear the word "appropriate." It is so subjective, arbitrary, and often empty generalization.
  Ho ho, If you only knew how many times in corporate life I've dissembled and wriggled and escaped by using that word - the 'A' word! If you don't know how much, how often, how far or just how, then commitment to the 'Appropriate' effort/response/resource is your get out of jail card! ;D

Quote from: jbee
Where else could a bobbie patrol the streets and never carry a gun.
Whilst it is still moderately unusual to see armed police in the UK, it is becoming more frequent.  Twice in recent months in London I have encountered officers with automatic rifles and tazers hanging from their kevlar body armour (they weren't after me specifically, you understand!).  Last week at a main London rail station, having been passed by three armed officers, I asked a member of staff if there was something going on.  He replied that this was entirely routine and the armed police patrolled frequently. 

John

The A word, well put.

Perhaps the militarized police are there to show people that the politicians are doing something to keep them safe from terrorists, as if a show of force might actually stop it? It is good to know that unarmed police are the common encounter.

Here, they are all out to intimidate, or expecting a need for a gun.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on October 27, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
The officer’s statement and intent is “shockingly outrageous” an “alarming overreach” “threatening everyone’s liberty.”

Perhaps he is considered the problem and to whom resolution will begin and end with. He sounds like one of those authorities who when threatened, immediately feel that they are cornered and over react with more overreach to maintain their position of perceived power.

Note that in this case, "he" should be "she". And the things people think should be said in response! Fascist, good heavens, do we know no history? Far from invoking il Duce, what the police officer said was also typically British--"This is obviously unacceptable behaviour".  But it's true, "inappropriate" is a weasel word, a way to speak while saying nothing; it's too bad the BN spokeswoman had to say that. In response, Juliette Gill could have said, "Constable Hardy is putting her own judgement here in place of established law. We've heard nothing that makes this man's actions illegal, and the police should inform the public of that, rather than claiming that there's a problem with entirely legal conduct. We encourage people to use their legal rights, and we'll tell anyone that encountering someone naked is nothing to worry about."

I'm not really familiar with BN's policies, but I've heard people claim that BN is too strongly linked with clubs and resorts and doesn't concern itself with naturism in public places. If that's BN's past policy, it's good to hear someone from the organization supporting an individual who's enjoying some "free range naturism".
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on October 27, 2015, 04:49:51 PM
BN is gradually changing in that respect.
Another way in which this is happening is that BN are, at last, trying to pressure clubs on sex discrimination as it affects single males. There are good reasons to believe that the way some clubs exclude single males is actuallt illegal.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on October 28, 2015, 09:57:32 AM
Juliette Gill is a breath of fresh air. With her husband she is doing great things for naturism in Scotland, including contacting her local Police and telling them she is going out walking naked and getting their acceptance that what she is doing is OK. She has also produced an advice sheet about the law concerning naturism in Scotland that us free rangers can carry and produce if challenged by the Police. The BN region recently received an
award from BN for making progress, the first time an award has been made for 14 years.

John makes the point that discrimination against singles may be illegal. That's the problem, may be illegal - not is illegal. We discussed the law at the BN AGM and its not clear cut which is a pity, but so much law is ambiguous, that's of course to the advantage of the lawyers!

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 28, 2015, 07:17:02 PM
Davie, I went to the BN site. I discovered this:

http://www.bn.org.uk/campaigning/index.php
http://www.bn.org.uk/community/files/file/669-public-place-naturism-portable-legal-guidance/
http://www.bn.org.uk/community/ccs_files/briefings/140529_Legal_Guidance_E_amp_W_2014.pdf

I am missing anything specific to Scotland. Is the law the same? I thought that things are more harsh in Scotland, or is that just in the enforcement?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on October 28, 2015, 07:58:57 PM
The law in Scotland is entirely separate from England. We have the Crown Prosecution Service, they have the Procurator Fiscal. They have an additional verdict of not proven. The advice was issued as a draft at the AGM and will be circulated hopefully in the next BN Magazine and be available on the web site.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 28, 2015, 08:15:16 PM
We could use something like that here, to put off overreaching authorities. It could be a get out of jail free card in some circumstance. It must serve to help relax, feel a bit more confident and feel legitimate.

We have so many different jurisdictions here. There could never be a blanket card like that. It is good that the feds have nothing on the books about nudity. Maybe, a different one for each state. Maybe something could be set with NAC's participation for Arizona.

Good for Juliette Gill and spouse. We (The Southern Arizona NAturist Society SANS) used to get together with the local Forest Service in a similar way and setting out warning signs near campsites.   

I'd be curious to see what the difference is between the two cards.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 04, 2015, 08:34:56 PM
I always cringe when I hear the word "appropriate." It is so subjective, arbitrary, and often empty generalization.

"That's (in)(not) appropriate", is as overused and as meaningless a phrase as "Have a nice day". It has its place though, where appropriate. ;D

Context is a concept that is not considered often in jurisprudence. Intent seems to be considered only when convenient to the lawyers.

Duane
Title: Nina Agdal Loses Pants -- Posts nude photo
Post by: Bob Knows on November 13, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
This one showed up in my e-mail on a topic news list.  Celeb nudity

What Do You Do When You Lose Your Pants? Pose Nude, Says Nina Agdal [PHOTOS]

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/12/nina-agdal-loses-pants-poses-nude-photos/#ixzz3rNtzS2lk

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 13, 2015, 04:32:48 PM
Celeb nudity, of a conventionally attractive young woman. In other words, business as usual.

And I do mean "business" as in profit-making commerce. Any time we see an image of a babe, we need to ask "Who plans to make some money here?"
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 13, 2015, 05:02:45 PM
Nudity is becoming more common in popular media.   All the clebs are doing it.

NAKED HARP CD


https://www.facebook.com/worldofomnia/photos/a.114835418857.123004.38210428857/10154320757228858/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on November 13, 2015, 05:06:08 PM
http://www.thewrap.com/stephen-colbert-tests-network-censorship-limits-with-nude-art-video/

http://mashable.com/2015/11/13/modigliani-masterpiece-censored/#3ilWcx_qzSqy

So celebs getting their kit off is business, so that's all right. A piece of classic artwork sells for a record auction price, and the US networks go all coy with the pixelator ....

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on November 13, 2015, 05:12:02 PM
Celeb nudity, of a conventionally attractive young woman. In other words, business as usual.

And I do mean "business" as in profit-making commerce. Any time we see an image of a babe, we need to ask "Who plans to make some money here?"

And too often that is the reason. There have been lists of celebrities, well known people in the sciences and authors who have all expounded the nudist lifestyle. We never hear of them because there is not the "perfect" body attached. I will add this however; there has become more of an awareness that the common people I know at least engage in home nudity. It may only be a short step before it becomes social but the biggest hang up is body shame. It's all right for a spouse to see me naked but not the rest of the world and these kinds of pictures do not help. If only more well known people would expose those less than perfect bodies? I know the body haters would be out there; the religious zealots and those who hide behind a keyboard to ridicule but a ground swell may get started. That's why the Walgreens ad strikes a cord to me.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 13, 2015, 05:18:54 PM
American TV is still hurting from when CBS and many local stations all got fined over Janet Jackson's showing off her pierced nipple at Superbowl halftime.  Its the GOVERNMENT, not the TV networks that enforces the prohibition on TV nudity.  I'm glad Colbert is pushing to get it changed. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 13, 2015, 05:25:49 PM
Yup, you got it, Nudewalker. And if we're talking about censorship, let's not forget the enormously common practice of modifying images that we're presented with, so as to create a more easily merchandised version. (I won't say "more beautiful" because I just don't recognize an unrealistic image as beautiful.) Just like censorship, it's this scheme of making reality something unacceptable that we ought to be fighting.

I just saw an article somewhere that said digital image manipulation has now reached the point where they don't need "body doubles" to avoid showing famous performers naked in movies. They can make them look nude even if they were clothed when the filming was done. Maybe now if every starlet can acquire giant breasts in post-production, it's gonna kill the boob job industry!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 13, 2015, 05:35:02 PM
Don't get me started on the Janet Jackson incident! (Which was in 2004 by the way, not exactly yesterday.) That was a classic stripper performance, partial fleeting nudity used as an erotic display, for those who think that kind of thing is erotic. People were absolutely right to protest, and naturists should be applauding that it was recognized for what it was.

Once again, check the facts! CBS beat the fine in court, no doubt after spending many times the cost in legal bills. But they did it by surrendering the main issue, namely they said they hadn't been given adequate warning of what was prohibited. In doing that, they  accepted that it was something prohibited--so they've put themselves in a position where they can never do it again in the future. But technology has made the whole thing pretty much irrelevant anyway, because everyone has cable and the Internet, where rules covering broadcast TV don't apply.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 14, 2015, 12:28:59 AM
Celeb Miley Cyrus goes naked and freaks out the conservative media, who still run the photos.  http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/has-miley-taken-her-nudity-too-far-this-time-photos/

In my opinion the more naked bodies are shown in media, any media, the more common it becomes for the public to see naked bodies.  Good for the celebs who push nudity. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 14, 2015, 10:58:57 AM
Yes, Bob - the media do like a good freak out.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on November 14, 2015, 04:54:33 PM
Yes, Bob - the media do like a good freak out.

The media tries to make us freak out. Or in at least what they think will sell papers, magazines or get air time. I did notice Miley's pictures were pixilated on Bob's link but I have seen them uncensored elsewhere. Honestly, at first I thought her actions were attention getters but now think that she's much like us. She hates to wear clothes, just more open about it.

Not to change the subject much, there has been a wave of sexting or sending nude pictures among teens here that has been making the rounds of the news. Out of my curiosity, does the same type of thing exist in Europe. With the more relaxed attitudes over there is it seen as a problem as it is here? or is it considered just a normal part of growing up? This might not be phrased quite right but hope it's understood.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on November 14, 2015, 05:23:07 PM
Sexting exists in Europe and there have been some daft over-reactions by the Police. One young teenager texted a picture of himself to his girl friend who passed it on. He was had up by the Police. Had he been over age there would have been no offence, so he was cautioned for sending indecent images of himself. She was treated as a victim. Again had she been over age she would have been guilty of revenge porn. The Police were subject to some criticism for trying to criminalise a youngster making a juvenile mistake. In fact the Police were brought into it by the school who interviewed him in a way that was against the laws of natural justice. They should have acted in a pastoral way but the problem is failing to report suspicions of offences against children is also an offence. We are just as mad here as the rest of the world.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 14, 2015, 07:58:31 PM
Celeb Miley Cyrus goes naked and freaks out the conservative media, who still run the photos.  http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/has-miley-taken-her-nudity-too-far-this-time-photos/

In my opinion the more naked bodies are shown in media, any media, the more common it becomes for the public to see naked bodies.  Good for the celebs who push nudity.
To add to that, she does these things to get attention and rich, so the context isn't so good. There was some faceboof thing that asked something like,"Do we want this for a role model for our children?" Even though this is exploitative, it makes simply exposing a nude human body seem more tame. It shows the grey boundaries where simple nudity begins to get more toward obscene. First she was nude on a wrecking ball and now she is doing something with sex toys and her tongue, etc. It teaches that the simple nudity on the wrecking ball becomes more tame and expected/accepted.

I like the way the she is not a big breast, bleach blonde, eye makeup, Barbie cutie. Her style sucks to me, but her body style is very human, giving the female audience a break in what they must measure up to and body acceptance.

There is a flashing montage of photos in there. As they went through, I thought that I saw, full frontal, then, "Yep, that IS full frontal." "Well I'll be....," I thought. "Good for her. Not all of the celebs would do that!" It showed to me an attitude of "here it is, a body part like all of the rest of it. Go ahead and look" Then this thing pops up with big black stars in strategic places. I thought, "Here we go again." Still, I think that the kids will find the naked one on the net and be taught that there is foolishness in the black stars.

Here youth are being shown that body parts don't have to be taboo and talking about these things, owning these things, exploring these things isn't out of bounds. In the sexual revolution of my youth, talking and trying things was healthy. Eventually, we toned down and settled in a more natural balance. Eventually that wrecking ball stops swinging, you slide off and just stand there naked and calm, as yourself, instead of a reaction to the sick culture. Culture is like a body. It needs to stretch and then goes back to a calm stance, healthier for the action. It learns from the radicals, the avante guarde, the outrageous.

Thomas Jefferson said that a revolution is good every once in awhile. I think Myley Circus is in that spirit. I think Thomas Jefferson is getting ready to crawl out of his grave saying, "Now wait a minute Jbee, that's not exactly what I was discussing there!" ;D
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 14, 2015, 10:49:51 PM
I claim that it's very important for naturists to recognize and state when nudity is being shown for erotic or sensationalistic reasons, versus when it's happening for fun, or just as a part of ordinary life. And we can point to the times (almost always!) when it's not nudity in general that's on display, but particular attractive young women who are involved. Oddly enough, or not so oddly at all, that's the same demographic group that usually appears in pornography: we should be challenging people about whether that's a coincidence.

As for Thomas Jefferson, if he reappeared now he might find Miley Cyrus less interesting than Rihanna.

(Reference to Sally Hemings, if anyone needs a hint.)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 14, 2015, 11:32:04 PM
I claim that it's very important for naturists to recognize and state when nudity is being shown for erotic or sensationalistic reasons,

I partly agree with you John.   Nudity is only sensationalist because its rare.  The more often nude people are shown the less rare it gets.  If they keep doing it for sensationalist or other reasons it won't be long before nudity is no longer sensational  -- and we will have won. 

Its kind of like Playboy magazine.  When they started out their simple and non-erotic nudity was very sensational.   Soon it became mild compared to other magazines like Hustler who focused on female crotches.  And by now Playboy no longer even bothers because a simple naked female is not sensational enough to sell magazines. 

Now we are seeing big name female celebs appearing naked for extra publicity, and that hardly raises an eyebrow.  Children are busy sending naked photos to each other, copying the celebs.   Naked photos are not a big deal.  Being seen naked isn't much of a big deal to most people either.

The more the better.


Quote
versus when it's happening for fun, or just as a part of ordinary life.

Personally I practice naturism as part of my ordinary life.  I don't get nudism as a vacation from ordinary life at some nudist resort.   Being naked needs to be part of ordinary life, and the more common it is for ordinary people to see naked humans (for whatever reason) the more ordinary life it becomes.   The exception may be for porn shots that are obviously not ordinary, and equate nudity with sexual deviancy.


Quote
As for Thomas Jefferson, if he reappeared now he might find Miley Cyrus less interesting than Rihanna.
(Reference to Sally Hemings, if anyone needs a hint.)

Or, Ben Franklin might enjoy her company on his morning naked walks through the city.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 15, 2015, 08:37:36 PM
I claim that it's very important for naturists to recognize and state when nudity is being shown for erotic or sensationalistic reasons, versus when it's happening for fun, or just as a part of ordinary life. And we can point to the times (almost always!) when it's not nudity in general that's on display, but particular attractive young women who are involved. Oddly enough, or not so oddly at all, that's the same demographic group that usually appears in pornography: we should be challenging people about whether that's a coincidence.

As for Thomas Jefferson, if he reappeared now he might find Miley Cyrus less interesting than Rihanna.

(Reference to Sally Hemings, if anyone needs a hint.)
Considering that he had six children with his wife, we might not see mister frisky discriminating between the two. Sally, a mulatto daughter of his wife Martha's father and mulatto slave, was 3/4 white, described as "fair" with long hair down her back and he had probably six kids with her, all after he lost his love Martha. It makes me wonder if she was a slave just for appearances sake (she 3/4 and her children passed for white, all were eventually freed) or what kind of thing and thinking was going on.

It was fairly common in the south to find generally passable women from relationships with slave owners. It was discretely accepted for widowers like Jefferson. The Dragoon Ball in New Orleans (I never looked deeper, but wonder if it was the accented Dragon Ball, anyone know?) placed eligible women of this mixture, who had been freed (white slave progeny might embarrass amongst the other black slaves blowing the discretion like a red flag, white slaves undermined the black slave system, or white enough to not deserve slavery ie. inferior, or some owner guy's loved daughter) with white gentlemen. It was held each year. Remember, it was a time where women were extremely restricted and socially vulnerable. Dang, social acceptability has sure changed.

Circus' behavior and haughty, unbridled attitude would probably turn the respectable Jefferson on end. He may have enjoyed her light build, as that was his wife, and Hemings was as young as his daughter when that relationship began. I don't know much about Rianna's act. I looked her up on wiki.

I love TJ. I think that I may have read everything he wrote. All off topic, sorry.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 16, 2015, 08:11:14 AM
On no evidence whatsoever, I have always assumed that while the majority of slaves were overworked menials the full spectrum of treatment ranged from total abuse to honoured member of the family circle.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 16, 2015, 11:49:11 PM
I suppose that we have never discussed the relationship of nudity and slavery and the effect it has had on the current attitudes of textiles.

I spent about eight of my first twelve years in the south in the Virginia area. I remember separate water fountains, swimming pools and school. I remember black men stepping into the gutter waiting for my mother and me to pass on a broad sidewalk and the pains of the shift during the civil rights era. There were many southerners feeling unjust criticism of the slave owners, their ancestors and Southern heritage. One of my grade school teachers stated that most of the owners treated their slaves with kindness and humanity. There was a spectrum of course.

We must remember that most people do like to think of themselves as nice, reasonable, good, not unkind and correct and act that way. People also grow up with other values and perceptions of belief and these seem perfectly acceptable to them. In the old South and true for every part of the world, at one time or another, slavery was just the status quo with no wrong. In the South, Black people were believed to be an inferior race. Dogs and cattle were believed to be inferior to humanity, also. Some dogs are smarter, friendlier, better at certain tasks, etc. Just think how many different ways dogs are treated and the reasoning. Now, ponder how many ways could one treat a slave? It is similar behavior, just a being that was born with similar characteristic to its master.
Taking freedom and exploiting others, I believe is a bad action. Yet, I can forgive people who are products of their environment in other places and times. They just don’t know any better and accept what is. In this world today, we have imperialistic abuses, class opinions of higher and lower, racism, oppressions of women, and what amounts to slavery in control. The whole thing is generally driven in ignorance by people who don’t think of themselves as bad, but good, mostly. Then without denial there are a few psychopaths at the top and damaged criminals pop up everywhere.

So, we have been with slavery forever. In the institution, one loses everything, having nothing but what is given temporarily, totally controlled. The ancient Mediterranean cultures often kept slaves undressed for various reasons. The statement of have wealth is a tool of acceptance into the society of the have wealth. It suggests success. If you want to get richer you hang with the same with the same goals. You don’t dress like a slave, or the have littles. Wearing nice adornments impresses others and impresses one’s self. It builds confidence. When one becomes dependent on this, loss of it feels naked, identity is shaken, fear arises even thinking about being unclothed to others. They push young kids into uniforms and try to indoctrinate them into the trap of “dress for success.” It seems that people will wear ANYTHING to get laid, or make a buck…or both.

Slaves have no control, no clothing, nothing, even given a name. That is what we are up against, when living in a world of manipulation. Nudity and naked, in degree, have been associated with these connotations.
 
I read last week that the Swedish business model nearly requires that it be conducted in a sauna, nude. The Romans had bath houses, much the way business is done over lunch, cocktail parties, or golf courses. I suspect that ‘ol Lyndon Johnson had this in mind when he coaxed visitors to skinnydip in the White House pool. He may have wanted to get them to relax and trust and to be less formal. We would come a long way, if business, relaxation and trust would connote with nudity like the Swedes.  Now, with so many women in the mix, that adds new barriers to the textile world’s adaption.
 
With all of this in mind and the topic, how about John Lennon’s quote:  “The main hangup in the world today is hypocrisy and insecurity. If people can’t face up to the fact of other people being naked or smoking pot, or whatever they want to do, then we’re never going to get anywhere. People have got to become aware that it’s none of their business and that being nude is not obscene. Being ourselves is what’s important. If everyone practiced being themselves instead of pretending to be what they aren’t, there would be peace.”

  http://articles.absoluteelsewhere.net/Articles/lennon_nudity.html

As they say, ya gotta keep tearing away at the very fabric of society.

We are on topic…ta da!
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 17, 2015, 12:02:21 AM
I don't accept that Playboy magazine's nudity was ever non-erotic. Within the limits of the day, it was quite erotic enough for many of the readers, but once stronger stuff became available, they went where they could get it. Now Playboy is trying to find a new image. I'm almost willing to wish them success.

Unfortunately, I think the vast majority of the nudity that most people encounter is intended to be erotic, whether it's the pop stars twerking (What is that, anyway? No, don't tell me) or the kids sexting. Far from getting everyone used to nudity, it's reinforcing over and over again the idea that nudity is a sexual thing. At least we middle-aged guys have the memory of getting unabashedly naked in the locker room! Now the young people are complaining about "old guys waving their bodies around" as if it were obscene--which to young people, it pretty much is. The possibility that nudity would ever become totally mundane is very far away, and I don't think we're getting closer to it. If you can point to any increased acceptance of ordinary people being naked, please tell us. Not this or that showbiz babe.

What I recall reading about Benjamin Franklin was that he advocated "air baths" where he would sit naked by an open window. If he got out in the streets of Philadelphia nude (Ben was a free-range naturist!) it's new to me.

If someone wants to talk about slavery, how about starting a new topic?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 17, 2015, 12:54:28 AM

If someone wants to talk about slavery, how about starting a new topic?
But I thought that John Lennon himself coming out of the grave, tied the whole slavery issue into the context of celebrity nudity? The article presents him as advocating egalitarianism, related to casual nudity and body acceptance. It is about exploitation and taking away others freedoms. The legacy of nudity from slavery is only the segue.

Not to mention the contrast from the celebrity stuff that we are presented with today. How about his celebrity nudity still standing in a totally new media 36 years later. Will Miley Curcus, or Madonna still have that in 3O or 40 years? Back in the day, they did Miley Circus and got clobbered with rejection. They even put their bodies out with all of the honest flaws to be clobbered for that. 
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 17, 2015, 01:12:59 AM
Having sex/kids/relationships with slaves is/was/and always will be, abuse. The "owner" is taking advantage of their power over another person. It cannot be viewed any other way.

I'll warrant LBJ did that, not because he preferred nudity, but because he knew it put the other in an awkward position. He was a master manipulator and majority whip. He could sell sand to a Bedouin.

Duane

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 17, 2015, 01:58:51 AM
True about LBJ. He sure got things done in those six years. Too bad a part of that was selling millions of us into standing in the middle of a war 550,000 at a time. He did have a handle on having his way, like driving 90 and drinking in Johnson County as he pleased. I’d speculate that it was exploitation of the psychological principles of the nude encounter groups that he was playing people with. Or maybe, he was just sick and tired of being ”Mr. President” to everyone and just longed to rebel a little bit, shaking it out of who he was with…coupled with alcohol. We’ll never know.  Still, I’d bet that when he was alone, he didn’t bother with swimming trunks.
 
Like Jimmy Carter displaying his bare feet on the desk, it is helpful for the authority figurehead to be more human, or risk getting disassociated from others and himself. In my memory, most celebrities that I ever interacted with, appreciated me not treating them as a celebrity.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 17, 2015, 07:14:51 AM
For everything I disliked about the man, he knew where he was from and never tried to pretend he was what he wasn't. You have to admire that. What you saw was what you got.

You are right, jbee. He almost single handed created the Civil Rights legislation of the '60's because he was from the South and he knew how those guys in the South, curiously mostly Democrats, ticked. He seldom gets the credit for that.

High stress work can make you want to kick the traces off. No doubt.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 17, 2015, 03:02:47 PM
I'll warrant LBJ did that, not because he preferred nudity, but because he knew it put the other in an awkward position. He was a master manipulator and majority whip. He could sell sand to a Bedouin.
Duane


If it weren't for LBJ's coup d'etat take over of the American government he would not have been so well remembered.   He's a glaring example of the tyranny of government and media. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 18, 2015, 12:28:53 AM
Three of us have made comments on LBJ. I think that they are all correct. He was a very complex guy, good/bad, sincere/manipulative, he embraced his power and abused it with varying intentions, both for himself and others. It does make any accurate speculation about what he was doing at the white House pool difficult. 
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on November 18, 2015, 04:28:20 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2015/11/17/the-waxing-and-waning-of-nudism-in-america.html

A new history book

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 18, 2015, 09:18:07 PM
An interesting article, Peter. One that generated, for me, more questions.

His comment about teens and texting nude photos reminded me of this article.

I read it in the local paper by this NY Times reporter: Eric Eckholm (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/us/prosecutors-in-teenage-sexting-cases-ask-foolishness-or-a-felony.html?ref=topics&_r=0)
Nudity is becoming a more everyday event. Is that good? Depends on the context. Concerning pedophilia, absolutely not.

If it's just kids goofing around, the courts have more important things to spend their limited resources on.

It illustrates how the laws intended to catch pedophiles are also snagging the young and foolish. After reading it I was wondering if kids would start getting arrested for playing spin the bottle or other such titillating games designed by kids of days past to push the boundaries of social regulation. If they post pictures of playing such games, they might run afoul of the law. If they only take photos and share them without the benefit of the internet, not likely. It's just more teenage hijinks.

Kids are going to push to see how far they can go.

As Justice Potter Stewart observed in his concurrance with the majority in "Jacobellis v. Ohio" in 1964, that the Constitution protected all obscenity except "hard-core pornography." Stewart wrote, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."

If we were to get arrested for being stupid, the jails and prisons would have more people in them than out. Kids being kids should not be prosecuted. Allowing parents and, to some degree, local jurisdictions, to impress on teenagers that some actions result in drastic consequences is the best idea.

The article also makes the point that "nudist camps or colonies" have begun to be gentrified. They are now exclusive to cruises and/or "resorts" that focus on pampering. Man, it gives you the heebie jeebies. It's kind of sad that organized nudity is being appropriated by the wealthy.

As Bob frequently says, seeing a nude person isn't going to harm any one. More lenient laws on casual nudity would be more useful than draconian measures intended to lump everyone into a single group that is dealt with by the courts with a sledgehammer to silence any and all disagreement.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 18, 2015, 10:40:41 PM
The answer to the last question sounds like a good thing, but I question what he is basing his statements on. How does he know this, or is it just some light speculation. It may be more prevalent, but just how wide spread? Is it a fad?

I don’t see nude recreation as going upscale, pricing out people. The same places are there, but there is this new aspect also. There are new high end places like Mira Vista, here that get the notice and advertise. The image that mom and pop are putting out there talks about high end amenities to attract that market and inflate the same places. Just how many nude spots did the writer visit to draw these conclusions? There are still plenty of trailers out there. Perhaps fewer campers.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 18, 2015, 11:02:56 PM
I didn't find "nudist camps or colonies" mentioned in the New York Times article.

But as for sexting, I wish we didn't take any interest in it. It is undoubtedly pornographic--material produced to create sexual thrills, and distributed with the same intention. As long as we're clear that nothing naturists do involves pornography, we ought to let society handle these cases however it works out. Whether the kids are sent to the galleys, or each given a bunch of flowers and a big kiss, it's no business of ours. You might as well discuss it with the people who restore antique cars or who grow orchids.

But having said that, there might be a way naturists could say, "All this foolishness results from nudity being made a taboo issue. If naked people were a familiar sight, there wouldn't be this temptation to use nudity sexually."
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 19, 2015, 08:20:36 AM
Duane's comment about nude recreation going up-market, whether true or not, resonated with my perception that Steven Gough would not have been persecuted by the authorities if he has been a millionaire.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: reubenT on November 19, 2015, 09:11:33 AM
It'd be kind of like imprisoning Willy Nelson for grass,    they did,  but not for long.    Everybody knows he smokes it,   and it's gradually becoming legal,  one state at a time.   I don't condone it's use,  but I do understand it gets used a lot more just because it's illegal.  Therefore I'm in favor of legalizing it.    Having money or popularity makes one at least partially immune to prosecution for marginal "crimes" 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on November 19, 2015, 04:01:03 PM
My days in the educational system had their moments. However, I was lucky to have some exceptional instructors. When the subject of the "Prohibition" came up in discussions I remember his statement that "you can't legislate morality". And that has stuck with me for almost fifty years as attempts to stop drinking alcohol, smoking weed and looking at porn have failed. America's obsession with the human body goes way back (think of the Comstock laws) and reached a head when our troops returned home from France after World War One and exposure to their culture.

As for nudity going up market; I can't say one way or another. I did se where the Terra Cotta Inn was sold and going textile soon. And there are the rumors of another place closer to me going into a state of disrepair. As I have only visited one my comments border on the line of hearsay. Maybe nudity is becoming more mainstream therefore the demise of some places or as has been noted before since wages have been stagnant for quite awhile the money that would be spent at such venues is no longer there.

Going back to sexting; a lot has to do with peer pressure I'm sure. The wanting to fit in with the rest of the crowd. The fact is the use of and the growth of digital devices has out paced the laws put in place which means children are being charged with adult crimes. Once again I don't have a horse in this race so any thoughts on my part would be speculation. I only would have hoped that my parenting skills would have been good enough to steer our children the right way.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 19, 2015, 07:36:43 PM
Maybe what is happening to the CO business is that the resorts that cater to the well to do are the ones surviving, while the 'mom-n-pop' shops are barely squeaking by or closing. It may be only a perception of upscaling. Businesses have to adapt or die.

Quote from: nudewalker
I only would have hoped that my parenting skills would have been good enough to steer our children the right way.

From conversations with our kids we have come to the conclusion that, so far, we did a pretty good job. When we find out that they have engaged in exuberant behaviors, they have remembered to take precautions against any drastic consequences.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 19, 2015, 08:44:09 PM
Most of the "resorts" have been improving their facilities with big nice club houses, better pools and jaccuzzis, etc. It is more professional, less mom and pop. After that, there are the same old lots with trailers, mobile homes and a camping area as always surrounding them.

There are few places like Mira Vista, an upscale resort hotel and former Dude ranch of the rich and famous and, with condos, no trailers, no camping. There are those old motels in Palm springs that have gone nude. There are the cruises. That is newer trends. We nudes are of all flavors and I believe the businesses will just accommodate all of us, if the market is there. I don't see any trend of change. Some do and some don't. Some are free range. DF and I will be naturists in nature. Even if they are limited to a boat, the stories of nude cruises make a bigger splash in the media and show the textiles that there are lots of us and we do the same things as all of them, just without the clothing. It makes us slowly more a part of the mainstream.

Clothing is becoming more revealing, smaller. A couple of jumps like say topfreedom and they will begin to catch up with us. And catch up with Europe before that.

We're waxing.
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 24, 2015, 08:47:19 AM
Anyone heard from Bob? A friend of mine told me of her friends, just outside of Spokane, that had been out of electricity for three days because of 120 mile winds. It performed like a micro-blast, but covered a huge area. His last post was the 19th, I'm pretty sure.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on November 24, 2015, 03:24:25 PM
Now that you mention it, since I check in with my phone often during the day haven't noticed him as being on site. Knew they were getting bad weather but nothing about the winds.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 24, 2015, 05:00:42 PM
Hi guys.   We got our electricity back last night after 6 nights and days of being off grid.   There are still some 20,000 people in the dark and cold but not us any more.  We had hurricane force winds a week ago Tuesday night and it took down practically the whole grid near Spokane, WA and northern Idaho.  Thousand of big trees in people's yards ended up crashing through roof tops and in the street after dragging down power lines.   Our land didn't suffer any damage despite the wind.  But one of our neighbors had a tree that knocked down the wires.  Power linemen crews from all over the west have been putting it back up. 

We have a small portable generator for emergencies so we managed to keep the heat on long enough each day so we didn't freeze.  We cheered last night when our power came back.

Its too f'ing cold to go out naked though.  20F (-5C) last night.  High today right around 0-C

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 24, 2015, 06:36:36 PM
Must be the same storm that hit Colorado. A friend is visiting some of her family near Greeley and reported 16 in. of snow.

1st big storm of the season, I guess.
Good to hear the power is back on and you were able to stay warm, Bob.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 24, 2015, 06:39:15 PM
I think the storm that hit us last week moved eastward and dumped on Colorado, Illinois, etc. 

Today we are having another storm, colder this time.  Snow here.  Some of the line crews are still out sorting the power grid. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 24, 2015, 07:02:57 PM
Linemen have always been a breed apart as far as I am concerned.

Working with power that can fry you in an instant is one thing, but to do so during any kind of storm, is just amazing.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on November 24, 2015, 08:48:21 PM
Bob,
Glad you're through the bad effects of the storm.  We heard a lot about it on the UK weather but mainly how it affected the US Atlantic seaboard and therefore what remnants of it we get over here.
Do you lose all your refrigerated and frozen food after 6 days no power?
What problems does that length of power outage cause.  For you I guess the water goes off too.
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 24, 2015, 10:24:34 PM
The local preppers are probably having a kick with I told you so's! Good practice for their scenarios.

I have thick incredibly insulated walls. I can retreat into a smaller room and I have a portable wood stove for it. The likelihood of a freeze continuing in Arizona is a joke. Most likely, I'd find warm naked time.

 I have a tank with more or less 3000 gallons of water. There are just a few days food in the fridge that would have to be eaten. Otherwise, canned and jar foods. I keep approximately five days of gourmet dehydrated food on hand for backpacking. I just got a cool book on fermented foods a couple of days back for my health, which will be stored. I fast regularly and now I'm used to that. I can be happy with water alone, for a couple of weeks. I also keep stove and gas for car camping. I have a cell phone and a charger in my truck. I have an extensive library, but loss of internet could be traumatic. :o :P :'(

The thick walled house is a cottage with some fortress-like features. There is a lot of food on the desert. I've got a box of candles. Got a place to pray....The weather most likely wouldn't interfere with being naked for long. It would probably demand it, instead.

So, Bob, how'd you all do? I'd been told that it was more than a storm, but an unusual gigantic micro-burst amongst a lousy bad storm that produced the 120 mph winds. Could you go to town and was the power good there? Don't you have a large wood burner that heats the whole house. You have a large space with partitions. Do you have an enclosed room?

Just curious, like Nuduke. Kinda off topic, so, I'll ask, "Could you get naked at all for six long days?!?"
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on November 24, 2015, 11:17:10 PM
Quote from: jbee
I fast regularly and now I'm used to that. I can be happy with water alone, for a couple of weeks.
Wow!  You often talk about the food you eat on hikes and such.  All very healthy.  But how often do you fast and do you do a couple of weeks each time?  What are the effects, if any, both during and after resuming eating.  There is a body of opinion that fasting is good for you, typified by the 5+2 diet and such but a day or two is the usual dose.  Tell us more about your ascetic nutritional practice, please, jbee. :)
 
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 25, 2015, 12:56:31 AM
Quote from: jbee
I fast regularly and now I'm used to that. I can be happy with water alone, for a couple of weeks.
Wow!  You often talk about the food you eat on hikes and such.  All very healthy.  But how often do you fast and do you do a couple of weeks each time?  What are the effects, if any, both during and after resuming eating.  There is a body of opinion that fasting is good for you, typified by the 5+2 diet and such but a day or two is the usual dose.  Tell us more about your ascetic nutritional practice, please, jbee. :)
 
John
I’ll try to be short and simple.
Discovering that I was hypoglycemic had me eating to control mood swing like eating for medication for years. The idea of not eating seemed a ridiculous notion with all of the uncomfortable effects.

During the time leading up to India, I began to follow spiritual fasts. I’d drink organic apple juice here and there with water. It seemed to be augmenting my quest for a permanent altered state. There are multiple and complex reasons for the spiritual fasting.

I did this a few times a year as it felt time, or was suggested. I had just begun one of these and I read Gabriel Cousen’s  “There is a Cure for Diabetes.” The procedure requires a fast. I was already half way there. I did it and began a raw food diet to the letter of the book. The hypoglycemic roller coaster mitigation disappeared completely.

I began to investigate further about this fasting thing and health. Hands down, nearly all studies show fasting increases longevity.  It is great for general health. It resets my clock so to speak. It starves the causes of gut imbalance and rebalances. This is basic to a host of killer diseases. The other systems work better, there is a detox effect. It goes great with sweating for the skin’s functions. Vitamin D is produced by the body with this balance and lack of toxicity. We evolved with degrees of starvation, which is natural. The system gets a break from the work of digestion and turns to balance and detox instead. There is a ton of information out there supporting the benefits of fasting, most based on very controlled medical science.

The first couple of days can be rough…starvation, super hungry. After that, it is easy. I don’t really want to eat. I do it when I have fallen off of my 80% raw foods diet enough to need a reset. I do this about three times a year. I go a week to ten days. It is intuitive and depends on how out of whack my system is (one indicator is that the symptoms of the hypoglycemic stuff begins to return). These days, I either go straight water, or juice fast. I can often feel the symptoms of detox. It makes me very aware. Some people get more energetic when they fast. I went twenty days once. I can also get kinda spacey while going through it, especially the first few days.

I often don’t eat from dinner till the next afternoon. Maybe a juice. This helps the body by giving it a break from digesting, which is better for the sleep states. It is a fast.

Sometimes, the first days are very hard. I get SOOOO HUNGRY!!! Sometimes during those days, I just sit and thoughts become less and less relevant. Then passed that, I’m pretty good, but that’s just my body’s system. It varies.

It is all good for weight problems, as long as you get to the “I’m not hungry anymore.” Otherwise, the starvation reflex a natural gluttony has one shoveling food down, jaw unhinged. This is very unhealthy and can lead to eating disorders.

When it is time to get back into food, I ease in. Juice becomes smoothey, probiotics like miso soup, which leads to yogurts, and more easily digested stuff. I like to get to a sushi bar for miso, a few green beans, green tea, and some protein with omega fish oils. Then do my best with Cousen’s live living food cookbook, raw stuff. The nutrition drops away fast as food gets older, it is cooked, etc. When I eat this living stuff, I don’t eat as much and I’m more mindful of the experience, eating slower, enjoying it. I shovel, eating other things completely differently. After about a week, I’m stuffing a good pizza. It’s my treat and liberation from the renunciation discipline of perfection.

I don’t know about 5+2 diet. I just googled it. It doesn’t sound like a good idea. It should just put someone in a starvation mode all of the time and keep them obsessed with food. It is important to biologically reset and detox, which takes more time. Eating whatever, certainly isn’t good. There is so much crap, fake food out there. Shoveling food because it has no nutrition and the body keeps trying get nutrition when it isn’t there. All of the unnecessary preservatives in processed foods. Cooked foods until there is nothing left. Sugars and salts by the truck loads…on and on. You have to get to the point where you are not hungry anymore, get reset and then the body is okay to not eat here and there.  It is important to eat nutritious food when you do eat, mindfully and relaxed. 
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 25, 2015, 05:36:35 AM
Bob,
Glad you're through the bad effects of the storm.  We heard a lot about it on the UK weather but mainly how it affected the US Atlantic seaboard and therefore what remnants of it we get over here.
Do you lose all your refrigerated and frozen food after 6 days no power?
What problems does that length of power outage cause.  For you I guess the water goes off too.
John


We have a portable generator that we drag out to the yard and plug in to our house.  It produces 6250 watts, or a single 30 amp, 230 volt source.  And it uses about 5 gallons of gasoline per day if you only run it 12 hours or so.  It will do our well pump just barely if everything else is turned off.  So most of the time we left the well pump disconnected and had enough electricity for refrigerator, gas heater fan, and a TV.  It was a pain in the behind but we survived without any serious problems. 

Quite a few people in town had big trees come down on their homes, often right through the roofs.  A couple of people died when trees landed on them.  Its a week later and there are still about 10,000 people without electricity.  Probably most don't have generators.  Broken frozen pipes will be problems when they get thawed out. 

The city and schools have been providing warm places and meals for people who can't live in their homes.  The power line crews are working 18 hour shifts.  The weather is about 20 F or -6 C.  We had 3 inches of snow today.

My own home survived well, all things considered.  Life is getting back to normal.  Its to F'ing cold to go run naked through the woods until spring.  DRAT! 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news NAKED RUGBY
Post by: Bob Knows on November 28, 2015, 10:19:23 PM
This is probably old news but its naked Rugby.

All sports should be played naked.   The fans want to see the athletes.   Olympics are always naked. 

http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/video-highlights-nude-rugby-takes-place-in-dunedin-ahead-of-bledisloe-cup-test-2013101919#axzz3sotwbIsn
Title: Re: Nudes in the news NAKED RUGBY
Post by: nudewalker on November 29, 2015, 02:52:39 PM
This is probably old news but its naked Rugby.

All sports should be played naked.   The fans want to see the athletes.   Olympics are always naked. 

http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/video-highlights-nude-rugby-takes-place-in-dunedin-ahead-of-bledisloe-cup-test-2013101919#axzz3sotwbIsn

I am in total agreement! Sports should be played by the masses to encourage fitness and body acceptance. In fact golf would be a perfect sport along with swimming. And the Olympics should be done nude also. Tear away the religious façade that adds to body shame. Enough class athletes would also topple governments that insist on outdated moral values.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 29, 2015, 03:00:27 PM
There is an article in this Saturday's Daily Mail about our first openly naturist bishop.
It has the Wail's usual slant and, of course the usual range of bigoted responsed among the comments.
The link is here. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337945/Bless-s-Britain-s-NUDIST-Bishop-Female-Archdeacon-51-brought-naturist-family-wrote-controversial-defence-disrobing-public.html)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on November 30, 2015, 05:22:56 PM
I've seen this story posted elsewhere but thanks for the link John. It is refreshing that not only is it a member of the clergy who is endorsing on the lifestyle but a female one at that! There have been a number of clergy who have been in support of nonsexual nudity however this is the first female I have known. My usual reference point when my nudity/Christianity is questioned is John Paul II's Love and Responsibility as the benchmark. If your nudity is not to shock or arouse then the sin is in the eye of the beholder.  Once I began to read the usual bigoted responses it seemed to me they fell into two groups: men who are unable to control their urges so feel that nudity is a temptation and those that feel she does not represent their religion. Anyway, it opens the discussion and that is a start.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 30, 2015, 05:51:36 PM
There's a website that purports to offer advice about sexual issues for Christians (married Christians, let's be clear about that) and they have a permanently-installed essay on nudism available:

http://site.themarriagebed.com/bible/scriptural-applications/christian-nudism

The author is honest enough to avoid any claims that the Bible forbids nudity, but he says it's a bad idea anyway. I'm not religious, so I'm not going to argue whether he's right or wrong.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news NAKED RUGBY
Post by: jbeegoode on November 30, 2015, 07:01:48 PM
This is probably old news but its naked Rugby.

All sports should be played naked.   The fans want to see the athletes.   Olympics are always naked. 

http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/video-highlights-nude-rugby-takes-place-in-dunedin-ahead-of-bledisloe-cup-test-2013101919#axzz3sotwbIsn
The chicken mascot wore a uniform shirt. Why?

The women didn't get equal treatment? Oh well, I suppose that incrementally speaking, if it becomes okay for the boys and girls get discriminated out of it, girls will find the injustice and eventually will want it themselves.

It was disconcerting at first, but it began to seem very normal, until it was all about the rugby match. Rugby looks fun.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 30, 2015, 07:51:05 PM
There is discretion and there are out and out lies, depending on the social context. There is being true to yourself.
There's a website that purports to offer advice about sexual issues for Christians (married Christians, let's be clear about that) and they have a permanently-installed essay on nudism available:

http://site.themarriagebed.com/bible/scriptural-applications/christian-nudism

The author is honest enough to avoid any claims that the Bible forbids nudity, but he says it's a bad idea anyway. I'm not religious, so I'm not going to argue whether he's right or wrong.

This guy is quoting a "reader survey" that 40% of nudists are swingers! A very large crock of BS there. Poor source and not anywhere a fact in my long experience in various nude/naturists culture.

He also states a line MUST be drawn, or there is dishonesty. He doesn't acknowledge a simple healthy sense of boundaries, nor does the culture of some of these churches. It is not dishonest to withhold information from others that would do you harm, or from the relationships in which nudity is irrelevant with no need of mention.There is discretion and there are out and out lies, depending on the social context. There is being true to yourself. Then there is the ol' nobody's business but my own.

Then he blames the nudity instead of the church and the inherent conformity that is being imposed. That's another form of intolerance that isn't healthy whether it is the local fundamentalist or a Suni Muslim in burkas stoning people. He has a choice to accept that kind of oppression from his church, it is his church, but leave me out of it. There has been a long history, since original settlements in this country, of people leaving intolerant churches when it got to be too much. People left Europe because of intolerance and then became intolerant here, and saw people leave and switch. It appears to me that this guy is speaking for his own type of Christan organization and narrow.

I did find it refreshing, to see nudity acknowledged as  part of some people's Pagan "Religious" beliefs. 

He seems to be in a smaller community. It was a long tradition in many locales to have church communities and secret societies imposing the power of ostracism as a tool of conformity, advancement and control.

Everyone has to question and make decisions of their sense of their own changing values, or be owned by someone else.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 30, 2015, 07:57:34 PM

oops
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 01, 2015, 03:58:15 PM
Having read other Christian articles on nudity it seems to me something is "rotten in Denmark".  If you were to quote a 40% swinger participation from a Nudist magazine poll one would surely reference the publication. Without reference it seems any number could be made up to prove a point. It seems that the writer is playing to his audience, much like many political candidates are doing, reinforcing the fears and conformity. My gut instinct tells me that there is more to this than meets the eye. Perhaps more of a personal struggle or a marital one?

Then the idea that one would gravitate to nudist friends rather than Christian ones? Are you so unsure of your beliefs that one would exclude people because they may be a bad influence; or is it the fact they are exposing the hypocrisy? I swear, some of these religions are more cults than a form of worship.

I also got a chuckle of the Pagan religious beliefs. Wonder where that came from? I'm sure out of the wrong context. Not long ago I read a book "The God of the Wilderness" which stated that in the Old Testament God appeared to the prophets in wilderness settings. Think the burning bush and the tops of mountains, and even Jesus gave his most important teachings outdoors such as the Sermon on the Mount. To me there is a disconnect between the teachings of some Christian churches and nature (nudity included) as life was intended.

I attended Catholic school and still practice my faith. And I have dealt with guilt issues (which my ex pounced on) and in the meantime have reconciled. Many times when I have returned from my hikes my misses asks, "did you have a talk with your God?". Honestly I can answer "Yes"!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on December 01, 2015, 05:50:43 PM
It seems that the writer is playing to his audience, much like many political candidates are doing, reinforcing the fears and conformity. My gut instinct tells me that there is more to this than meets the eye. Perhaps more of a personal struggle or a marital one?

You are right, he is playing to his christian audience.   Opposition to nudity and "putting clothes on the natives" has been a Christian campaign since before they conquered pagan Europe.  For some reason, asceticism and monotheism are inexorably tied together, and have been since the first Kings of Israel fought over religion with pagan Jews until monotheism finally won.  Orthodox Christians, Jews, and Moslems fear bodies as "filth" that must be covered to prevent normal feelings of pleasure and lust. 

There always are a few christian nudists who argue theology with themselves and the Christian establishment, but the establishment continues on its orthodox shame of bodies.  And yes, they still don't like pagans who are still not opposed to bodies and pleasure. 

The authors of this "marriage bed" web site fear that Christian is losing its grip as the uniform identification in America.  Atheists, pagans, and other religions are making dents in their conformity in many parts of America.  All that is tied to increasing acceptance of nudity. The asceticism of monotheism is losing its iron grip.   Offsetting this trend is the Islam invasion.  Islam is even more demanding and controlling than Christianity, and covers women even more as well. 

Bob

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 01, 2015, 09:42:39 PM
I was reluctant to bring up the subject of intolerance and its effect on body freedom. It needs to be brought up, but care needs to be taken to not insult the belief identification of some of us, who enjoy conservative church life, teach on Sundays, have community, etc. So far, I hope, so good.


Too often power has been intertwined with religion. Clothing is also intertwined with power. Power tends to diminish diversity and tolerance. This happens on many levels, from Mohammad conquering and laying down the law down to the masses, to some catty behavior among a group of girls ostracizing someone out of the group, to politicians today.


Having had ancestry coming from Europe to escape religious oppression, and realizing the foundations of the country's forefathers concerns, religious intolerance tends to tickle my ire, when it is directed at me from any source. Nudity is an integral piece of deep spirituality, ie a personal religion to me. Repression from other religion's beliefs of this, well... I don't like it.


I have this dichotomy of thought. First, all we need in this country is a bunch of new fundamentalists raised in intolerant countries coming here. We're just now getting out from under the ones that have been pushing their religion on the rest of us, ie, body freedom. Then thought comes to me, oops, well who am I to be intolerant of people who are refugees and of another religion, so were my ancestors. Then, I realize that these people aren't swarming toward Indonesia, or a host of other Muslim countries that are less prosperous. The issue isn't harboring refugees from war. This isn't Voyage of the Damned. These people from intolerant cultures have places to go, but they come here for the economic opportunity. They want to bring what they left and what they are familiar with, to here. A body of people only assimilate so much.


This isn't a wide open space to steal from the Natives anymore. The overpopulation has made elbow room and being naked more and more difficult. For 45 years, I've been standing for freedoms, equality, tolerance and population control. I have no obligation to muck that up. I want to see the USA catch up with Europe's body freedom and then move forward from there and from religious oppression. I don't mind sharing a beach, or any place, with someone in a silly swimsuit. It may feel disconcerting, confusing, a symbol of ideals that I don't share, I may even find disgust with it, but I respect that it is someones choice and belief.
Jbee
 


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on December 01, 2015, 10:10:53 PM
This may be off topic but I find it interesting.   Its a scholarly study of the history of Islam from sources outside of the Quoran myths.   Its about obedience,  Islam means obedience.  Daily practice obedience is how religious/political leaders maintain control of large populations.   Wearing clothes is daily practice in obedience.  Our body is shame and we obey by hiding ourselves.   Good video.

https://youtu.be/-dlXCrpKTt0

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on December 01, 2015, 10:55:04 PM
Quote from: nudewalker
To me there is a disconnect between the teachings of some Christian churches and nature (nudity included) as life was intended.

Many times when I have returned from my hikes my misses asks, "did you have a talk with your God?". Honestly I can answer "Yes"!
I agree with you there. There are no distractions, and all you need for that conversation to be meaningful, is around you, not on you.

Quote from: Bob
This may be off topic but I find it interesting. It's about obedience . . .  Daily practice obedience is how religious/political leaders maintain control of large populations.  Wearing clothes is daily practice in obedience.
Not only obedience but also fear/aversion of the disapproval of others. Both have to be present.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on December 02, 2015, 01:42:36 AM
Watching a few snatches of the nude rugby match it does render the matter of team identification a bit of an issue.  I assume the teams wore green socks and no socks.  Perhaps an armband might have been most effective!  In the UK at school we were made to play Rugby and the season was in the cold weather.  It always struck me as hopelessly illogical that one had to wear much less clothing and get dirty in the cold muddy field rather than wear much more clothing - to keep one warm clean, dry and more protected from injury! :)

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on December 02, 2015, 07:41:49 PM
I've watched rugby and know little of the rules. It always reminds me of a game we played when smaller and more flexible that we called "Kill the Man With the Ball".

If you were foolish enough to pick up the ball, well, you get the idea.

Fun times!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 03, 2015, 04:30:27 PM
We had a similar game only we called it "One Man Run". The rules were to run till you were tackled, throw the ball in the air then go after the guy with the ball. A few of my high school teammates went on to play club rugby in college. Needless to saw they were quite fast and skilled in ball handling, just not cut out to play college football in America.

Why do I have the feeling that if such a game if played here would have a SWAT team arriving before the first try? But I would suggest arm bands and different colored socks for team identification. Much easier to have volleyball as a nude team sport!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on December 03, 2015, 06:14:01 PM
Some body paint in your team colors would be sufficient to identify team members.  We also need to remember that humans are very good at identifying other humans.  If you take away all the "uniform" covering we have the ability to recognize our friends immediately.   Only the spectators may not be able to quickly tell which team member is which.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 04, 2015, 08:12:00 AM
Gotta watch that body paint in the sun. There are gaps between colors and streaks of brush marks. Different colors absorb light at different rates. I was painted with rainbows and swirls at a, well, Rainbow Gathering in '98. When the paint was wiped off, it looked like I had scars from being whipped and branded.

People looked at me like I had been. Some seemed horrified.

Sorry the old pics are 35 mil prints, not digital.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on December 04, 2015, 05:01:46 PM
Quote from: Jbee
Sorry the old pics are 35 mil prints, not digital.

There's a gadget out there called a scanner that will digitize them.
To echo a comment heard elsewhere on this site, pictures please!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 04, 2015, 05:53:43 PM
I have had some success taking pictures of pictures. Maybe I'll try some from hikes years ago and add then in some where appropriate.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on December 04, 2015, 06:55:44 PM
Quote from: Jbee
Sorry the old pics are 35 mil prints, not digital.

There's a gadget out there called a scanner that will digitize them.
To echo a comment heard elsewhere on this site, pictures please!

Duane
The scanner I have works with colour negatives as well as colour slides.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on December 04, 2015, 07:54:58 PM
I think film scanners are a different breed than the ones integrated with typical personal printers. I have wanted to get one for years, they are a little pricey, but I have a few decades of slides I would like to transfer to digital.

Right now it's a low priority.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 04, 2015, 08:02:47 PM
I have an old scanner that can scan positive as well as negative pictures. Some slides seem to come out better than others and at a high bit rate it can be time consuming. I've thousands of slides and only scan one or two when required. Despite that the scanner has been a worth while investment.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on December 08, 2015, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Bob
we have the ability to recognize our friends immediately
Would know you anywhere, Bob! :D

And in respect of scanning slides - before we moved, I had a guy scan my several hundred collection which are now on a memory stick & backed up elsewhere and hopefully the technology will remain to allow them to be viewable during my lifetime.  They are much easier to view and have a few minutes down memory lane as jpegs rather than physical slides.  The original slides and manky old projector (inherited from my uncle who died about 1975)...with great reluctance but practical resolve, .....I put in the bin!

You gotta accentuate the positive
Eeeeliminate the negative
Latch on to the digital
Don't mess with Mr In Between!
:D

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 09, 2015, 05:51:13 AM
What! You threw away an antique?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on December 13, 2015, 11:24:54 PM
I looked up the discarded projector on flea bay and was surprised to find the exact model and similar ones on sale.  My heart sank when I realised the huge value I had discarded.  Like winning the lottery and losing the ticket.  Those babies were changing hands for up to $28!  Oh woe, woe and thrice woe!  Alea iacta est! Misery and again, woe!

Which sarcasm, must convey my desire to leave the collection of antiques to the antiquarians, history to the museum curators and valueless clutter to the clearance agents!

It's not that I don't appreciate and value appropriate* heritage but unburdening myself of a proportion of the personal clutter of ages was much more cathartic and rewarding than clinging to the now functionless trappings of the halcyon past.

Je ne regret rien! :D

John
*cf our previous and other discussion of the use of the word appropriate!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 14, 2015, 05:12:03 PM
The last move, I built a house to my needs. I then piled everything up (all of those packing boxes) smack in the middle of my great room. It was nearly filled up. Everything useful was put in place. Everything that was too cool to dis-attach from was put into place. The rest went into a great garage sale. My son made a couple of hundred dollars from the sale of old toys. There was no haggling. If I got an offer, I took it and was rid of it, my heart the better for giving increase to another. The rest went to the Goodwill store. Now, it is Good will for used, or recycling for that which is broken...but things still accumulate! Books, I'm never done with books!

When I walk naked in the desert, everything I possess seems so irrelevant.

I had a friend stay a couple of days helping in preparing a sweat last week. He shared his minimalism with me. He refused to sleep indoors and stayed out on my patio. He is homeless, other than a spot in a wash where he lives naked as he chooses. He has a cell phone, a solar powered reading lamp, and a $600 sleeping bag. He is a master at rigging tarps. He has an ultra-light set of possessions that he straps onto a high tech bike. He travels periodically. He eats well, shopping at Trader Joe's. Next month he goes on Social Security and figures that he will save money. He recently moved from a Teepee in an alternative community.

Although I couldn't see myself happily in such a renunciate extreme, when I hang out in the nature naked, my perspectives change. When I watch my body reacting and adapting to 105F and 35F in wonder, or ponder how the Natives related to life....
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on December 16, 2015, 09:43:02 AM
Every year in the town of Meredith, in Victoria, Australia, there's a music festival, and apparently every year it ends with a naked race ...

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/we-asked-people-at-meredith-why-they-love-the-naked-festival-race

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 16, 2015, 09:45:29 PM
Wow! That was positive in a BIG way.

I think that more people would in other circumstances, if it was sanctioned and felt safe. We've been doing benefits to save our sweat. I notice many new people strolling around enjoying their freedom, because they can.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 17, 2015, 03:50:49 PM
Social media, being what it is today, is a constant bombardment of "freedoms" that we should have prior to the election. As our "rights" constantly get attention no one ever mentions "life, liberty" and most important the "pursuit of happiness"! All the postings mention speaking your mind or the fact you can own a gun but no one mentions the right to have a free body. I would drop social media if it were not the only was to keep in touch with some of my relatives.

This a long way around to getting to my point which is for as much as America is advertised as the land of the free all the fun nude things are in other countries! Even the WNBR events in the USA seem tame (textile) compared to what I've seen in Europe. Just like the rugby game posted here not long ago why do I envision a SWAT team surrounding on the participants?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 17, 2015, 03:59:52 PM
All countries seem to get "hung up" on certain things. From our experience in the US guns are good,  booze bad as is nudity. In the UK guns are bad booze is good and nudity ummm still on the prudish end of the scale I'm afriadbut so far over as it seems to be in the US. France nudity and booze good - not sure about the guns.

I generalise of course but still think of amusement that in one store in the US we passed the gun cabinet but had to go into a special area to get a bottle of beer and in a restaurant despite my grey hair had to prove I was over 21 by showing ID.

My son worked for a spell at the HQ Scout HQs which typical of the UK has a bar. Scouts aged over 18 from the US came over on the service team. In the uK you can legally drink at 18 as opposed to 21 in the US. My son tells me they all experienced at least one hangover thanks to the more liberal UK law.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 17, 2015, 06:24:19 PM
At the local convenience store in town there is a magazine rack. It provides mostly gun glory mags filled with the power of assault rifles and assault tactics. Young men with no power, no ego, depression, going nowhere, lonely and frustrated love to feel that their lives can be changed, to be empowered, with "badass" militaristic fantasy. There are a couple of drug mags like "High Times" promoting, idealizing buds in the centerfolds and other recreational substances. Not much else there. All manner of alcoholic and caffeine power drinks are available next to soft drinks, weird tea and bottled water. Playboy and its spin-offs as would any magazine with nudity in it, are wrapped in plastic for censorship to protect us. Until a couple of years back, state law had them wrapped and sitting behind the counter. The customer had to ask for it and certainly couldn't browse. 

There is nothing in there with any nutritional value and most is processed with additives. You can only get high on sugar and down with fat. The lot is completely paved with asphalt. It is a box, a totally man made unnatural environment, with a sign out front stating "No shirt, no shoes, no service."
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on December 17, 2015, 09:06:49 PM

I generalise of course but still think of amusement that in one store in the US we passed the gun cabinet but had to go into a special area to get a bottle of beer and in a restaurant despite my grey hair had to prove I was over 21 by showing ID.
Davie  8)


Last week the US Government (Obama) was making speeches about controlling guns.  The American public got worried that he might do it.  They went out and bought enough guns to outfit the whole US Marine Corps plus 4 Army Divisions.   That was on one weekend.  Obama seems to be the most effective gun salesman ever.

All the Islamic terrorist mass killings end up at "gun free zones."   By comparison there also was a recent Islamic attack in Texas where guns are encouraged.  Result was 2 dead Muslim terrorists.  None of the targeted audience was hurt.  The areas with high rates of so-called "gun violence" happen where guns are outlawed. Most of middle America has very little crime of any kind.

Meanwhile the US Government won't allow nudity on broadcast TV. Part of the country partially allows nudity, but police still prosecutes us under other laws like sometimes happens in the UK. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 18, 2015, 04:25:59 AM
Yea, Obama brought that up just in time for the Black Friday and the ensuing Xmas season. ;D

Bob wrote, “All the Islamic terrorist mass killings end up at "gun free zones."   By comparison there also was a recent Islamic attack in Texas where guns are encouraged.  Result was 2 dead Muslim terrorists.  None of the targeted audience was hurt.  The areas with high rates of so-called "gun violence" happen where guns are outlawed. Most of middle America has very little crime of any kind.”

The mass killers and terrorists want a blaze of glory, not find themselves in a gunfight with their impact diminished. A gun shot could come from anywhere and they fear that. They attack with surprise on unarmed groups.

I’ve had a gun nearby all of my adult life and never needed it (I don’t carry a gun on me when naked. It feels like clothing). The odds of getting hit by a goofball’s bullet are nil for most people, especially in most places in the country. Still, there are those who think that it is a practical solution to disarm everyone, like that could happen at this point. Politicians and fascists manipulate with fear. Sometimes it “backfires.” ;)

So, well put Bob.

In Arizona, you must be 21 to work in and visit a topless bar that serves alcohol, in a g-string of a certain width. You can be 18 working in a nude lap dance club which serves no alcohol. At one time, I’m not sure about now, you had to be 18 to buy Playboy, or any porn. Looking at these milestones in maturity, they are incongruent, it doesn’t make sense. All of this confusion and the results of it could be avoided, if all of the laws were dissolved and social change could be given time and opportunity to take place (One reason for the goofy age inequity was that 18 year olds were given the right to vote and drink at the same time, because they were old enough to be drafted and sent to war. But, the drinking part was rescinded and so was the draft). People raised to drink responsibly generally drink responsibly. Many of the 18 year olds that were given alcohol freedom didn’t know how to be responsible and some died before they learned, as they were cut loose with no training. Similarly, if the body was to be freed and people informed to make their own decisions and choices about their own bodies, this would be a very different place.

Education and experience goes a long way. Gun education should be mandatory in high school, teaching respect, the true danger of them and practical knowledges, like good driver’s education classes do. Education was Thomas Jefferson’s approach. His work started public education in America. He feared the uninformed and uneducated masses early on. My solution, drop the restrictive laws and mandate education making fully informed citizens.

Then there are the mental health issues. People get squeezed in this world way too much and some pop easier than others. There are ways for us to stop squeezing so hard, and learn to look out for each other.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on December 18, 2015, 04:09:09 PM
The latest on our old friend Steve Gough:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14155396.Naked_rambler____I_might_keep_my_clothes_off_until_I_die_/

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on December 18, 2015, 04:30:41 PM
That judge sounds like a clear example of what is so wrong with the criminal injustice system.   Its good that he's concerned enough about wasting taxpayer money (and his bloated court budget) to have gotten tired of abusing poor Steve. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 18, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
Without wanting to cause offence - each (country) unto its own.

It is however interesting to compare the US experience with that of Australia. They had masses of firearms, although clearly nothing like the number in the US but after a mass shooting the law was changed and the result was firearms offences and suicides dropped dramatically. See  here. (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html)   I walk the streets of the UK without the general fear that my neighbour might loose off a firearm (or their children will.) Even with strict gun control we have problems but nothing like the US. I have to say that I've never felt threatened whilst being in the US apart from when one giant of a man who looked extremly rough came towards us. He stepped off the pavement raised his hat to my wife and said, "Evening mam," proving you can't judge people by their looks. (Another lesson learned)

We do have problems relating to alcohol but generally speaking the consumption by younger people is actually dropping. I think there is a need for cultural change from, "Its cool to get blathered." which I've hear quoted by health professionals. In my own group of friends we drink less but that may be an age thing. Certainly its quality rather than quantity now. As an aside I've never seen a drunk at a naturist event apart from one slightly tiddly Frenchman on a UK site who was a happy friendly drunk who upset no-one. Is this a common experience?

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 18, 2015, 04:37:22 PM
Steve Gough  -  the saga continues!  I wonder if a little common sense may be creeping in. On this occasion he was actually allowed to be naked in court. The judge also intimated he could apply to change the condition of the ludicrous ASBO which prohibits him being naked where it is lawful for others to be so. .. and a quip at the end.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 18, 2015, 05:02:47 PM
Just when I've been able to digest Jbee and Bob's posts good old Steve shows up again. A question I have is why do I never hear of the person who complains ever testifying in court? It seems to me that it is always the prosecution repeating the words of the arresting officers. Or did the officers just see him and decided to take him in without a complaint? Or did I miss something?

My guns were hand me downs from my father and since then I have passed them on to my son. I have debated on buying a handgun for a while now but as Bob wrote middle America has little crime. Maybe if our travels take us into more urban crime areas in the future I may reconsider.

The magic number 18! It must have been the European influence on my family because as young teens we were allowed wine and beer in moderation. I guess some of the other attitudes also came from the tradition. Once away from the nest it was easy to tell those who had been exposed and those who now had freedom. When the drinking age was raised to 21 I was already over the age limit but some of my fraternity brothers complained that the "rookies" ruined it for everyone.

Then there are those mental health issues. People get lost in the shuffle, well meaning laws get in the way of treatment and the whole thing is a disaster. I remember one from my EMS days. One winter a man was running naked in the woods. The local sheriff deputies called for an ambulance to assist. When we arrived and were advised of the situation a deputy asked me when we were going to "go after the guy?'. I responded "When he gets cold enough he'll come back".
Once the deputies left he did return and it was not a mental case but a little too much to drink. It's a fine line to walk and not cross!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on December 18, 2015, 05:52:01 PM
Without wanting to cause offence - each (country) unto its own.

It is however interesting to compare the US experience with that of Australia. They had masses of firearms, although clearly nothing like the number in the US but after a mass shooting the law was changed and the result was firearms offences and suicides dropped dramatically. See  here. (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html)   
Davie  8)


The murder rate in the US is somewhere in the middle compared to other nations.  Some nations have murder rates many times higher, and others lower. 

The US is not a monolithic place though.  Chicago where guns are banned almost entirely has a murder rate at least 10 times as high as Houston where guns are encouraged and common.  Both cities are about the same size and have the same racial demographics.  Some large parts of the US have murder rates comparable to the lower rate parts of Europe, and some places like Chicago are much worse. 

Overall the murder rate in the US has dropped as gun ownership has expanded, and is now the lowest since the US government began collecting statistics fifty years ago.  The US rate of 3.8 per 100,000 people is less than that of the world wide average rate which is around 6 something per 100,000 people. 

For international murder rate comparison see   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate



Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 18, 2015, 06:54:54 PM
Without wanting to cause offence - each (country) unto its own.

It is however interesting to compare the US experience with that of Australia. They had masses of firearms, although clearly nothing like the number in the US but after a mass shooting the law was changed and the result was firearms offences and suicides dropped dramatically. See  here. (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html)   I walk the streets of the UK without the general fear that my neighbour might loose off a firearm (or their children will.) Even with strict gun control we have problems but nothing like the US. I have to say that I've never felt threatened whilst being in the US apart from when one giant of a man who looked extremly rough came towards us. He stepped off the pavement raised his hat to my wife and said, "Evening mam," proving you can't judge people by their looks. (Another lesson learned)

Davie  8)
I find it amazing the results of Australia’s controls. Only 40% of the suicides and homicides are now done by using a firearm. Have suicides and homicides decreased over all? Have grotesque results increased because of a less effective way of suicide being readily available? What about homicides given the same line of inquiry? Home invasions did not increase, nor did they decrease, but now the home occupants had no recourse, but to be peaceful victims, or little old ladies standing in a corner with a kitchen knife in hand? I have wrestled with larger more powerful friends for fun. I remember how completely helpless that I was a couple of times, being pinned or tossed. The statistics need to be looked at more closely. What is the true impact?

Most people advocating have lived in areas where there is peace and have had relatively close to no violence in their lives, stable places. Most are not different, like minorities, or a social difference like odd religion, or gay, or of anti-war or some other opinion, or dress. I have seen many shocking examples of these people being beaten, tortured, humiliated or traumatized, because they had no defense…victims happen.  Mentioned that I have not needed a gun for many years, but in my youth, there were several times that it could have been handy in my defense and I had no gun. The last time I felt threatened was a larger younger textile thinking that he had a right to take away our free beach. We had to leave for another place. Upon return, his inebriated girlfriend shouted, “You guys a soo cool” and removed her top. He was too busy with her to hassle us about our nudity. This just an example, there will always be someone popping up when you least expect it, ready to push people around when there are no guns.

A few decades ago, while driving on a remote interstate highway in California, where two years before a nutjob had been driving up and shooting people at random two years before, I was stopped for speeding. That was when I discovered that it was illegal to have a firearm in my car for protection, there. That’s when I became a life member of NRA.

But there is more to the issue than what a gun control advocates are framing it to be. When I traveled in South America, I was among populations where people had no guns. As I sat eating a hamburger in a restaurant, a group of students came by in protest of the flying of planes over their classrooms and disrupting college. The military police walked up and shot into the crowd. I watched young people fall. This in the main plaza, on Peru’s Independence Day. That evening there were people celebrating patriotic Independence just as loud, in that same plaza, and there was nothing in the newspapers.

In Bogata, the public bus fares had been upped by approximately 4 to 6 cents and people were walking the streets in protest, because they were that hardworking poor. I was picked out of a crowd on my way to a movie, slammed up against a wall and held a gunpoint like a firing squad, searched, and left vulnerable to any gun play that the police were supposedly attempting to suppress, as others walked by. The oppressive government and its monopoly squeezing the people, needed to take away the guns.

These are two examples of unarmed citizenry. History has proven continuously that there is no limit to the oppression of those who gain power, unless there is popular control and too many pitchforks for the Knights to handle. I know that this country has slipped continuously and dramatically toward a situation like those South American CIA/corporate/oligarchy controlled countries that I visited back then and we are never that far from the same without the Bill of Rights in true force. These are the issues of gun control. A well-armed citizenry, too many guns in the hands of too many people is a necessity. If we look at histories statistics, fascism, oligarchy, in numerous forms are inevitable, unless the government is truly by the people, of and for the people. These shooting tragedies will continue, but the odds of getting harmed by a gun are very small. With government control of guns, the odds that oppressive government will take over are 100%. You don’t have to use guns, you just have to have them.

Hitler took away the free body movement. He put guns in the hands of only those that fit the mold, of friendly groups. Dictators stand as strong controlled personalities and like to stand as the representatives of controlling religions, as often as they make ideology like religion.

 This is a political rant, but body freedom depends on its political aspects, too. Guns actually free society. Free to do things like be naked.
So, well, yea, I’m a cowboy, wild on the free range and I’ve been roaming around.
Jbee
   
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 18, 2015, 07:08:45 PM
Without wanting to cause offence - each (country) unto its own.

It is however interesting to compare the US experience with that of Australia. They had masses of firearms, although clearly nothing like the number in the US but after a mass shooting the law was changed and the result was firearms offences and suicides dropped dramatically. See  here. (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html)   
Davie  8)

The murder rate in the US is somewhere in the middle compared to other nations.  Some nations have murder rates many times higher, and others lower. Overall the murder rate in the US has dropped as gun ownership has expanded, and is now the lowest since the US government began collecting statistics fifty years ago.  The US rate of 3.8 per 100,000 people is less than that of the world wide average rate which is around 6 something per 100,000 people. 

Around here, the murder rate increased when the gangster fad became more pronounced and gang violence became more of an aspect of the smuggling and drug world. It had nothing to do with most people, it was among a few, in just a few particular parts of town.
As that culture has decreased in the hip hop media, murder rates are back down. Murder rates are down all over the country. Culture is a big aspect of gun violence, again I recommend education.

It is true that the best defense and effective murder weapon is a gun.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 18, 2015, 07:22:46 PM
Just when I've been able to digest Jbee and Bob's posts good old Steve shows up again. A question I have is why do I never hear of the person who complains ever testifying in court? It seems to me that it is always the prosecution repeating the words of the arresting officers. Or did the officers just see him and decided to take him in without a complaint? Or did I miss something?

Do defendants have the right to meet their accusers in court in Europe? It used to be English common law. Would someone clarify?


Then there are those mental health issues. People get lost in the shuffle, well meaning laws get in the way of treatment and the whole thing is a disaster. I remember one from my EMS days. One winter a man was running naked in the woods. The local sheriff deputies called for an ambulance to assist. When we arrived and were advised of the situation a deputy asked me when we were going to "go after the guy?'. I responded "When he gets cold enough he'll come back".
Once the deputies left he did return and it was not a mental case but a little too much to drink. It's a fine line to walk and not cross!
;D
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 18, 2015, 07:31:28 PM
In English law an accused person has the right to cross examine witnesses, although with some trials the witness may be behind a screen or via a video link. The defence have a duty to disclose the evidence against an accused. What happens in the rest of Europe is to me an unknown. I believe that Scots law (separate from English) has similar safeguards plus an extra verdict of "not proven" which I guess means, we think you did it but can't actually prove it. Is this a good idea - discuss!

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 19, 2015, 08:02:42 AM
Not proven! That's something new to me. Here it is innocent until proven guilty, beyond a doubt, the state has the burden of proof. That sounds very alien to me.

When I was a kid in France, I was accused of something that I had no knowledge of. I was questioned by CID the US military law and a gendarme. The gendarme accused me and treated me as if I was guilty and I had to prove myself innocent. The CID finally stepped in and told him to back off of the kid (I was only about 13). He wouldn't put up with that violation of rights. I learned the difference between innocent until proven guilty and guilty until proven innocent that day in a big way. It made me appreciate my country's law, and I took more interest in the Bill of Rights. Right to meet an accuser falls in with this. This persecution turns my stomach as a naturist, but an unfair justice system even more. Take the judge out and hang 'em.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 19, 2015, 12:13:20 PM
Quote
Not proven! That's something new to me. Here it is innocent until proven guilty, beyond a doubt, the state has the burden of proof.

Its the same in the UK, English and Scots law. The "Not proven" is a verdict after trial. See  here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_criminal_law) for more details.

i.e. guilty, not guilty and the not proven What is creeping in is the use of civil law for what I think are criminal issues. One example is lorry drivers found to have illegal immigrants being dealt with were the standard of proof is "on the balance of probabilities" not "beyond reasonable doubt"

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on December 19, 2015, 02:35:58 PM
Continental Europe uses the inquisitorial system of justice and not the adversarial system used in most Anclophone countries.
This is associated with a completely different attitude throughout the process, not just in court.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on December 19, 2015, 05:11:19 PM
Regarding Steve Gough, I was just able to say on his support group on Facebook:
In Scotland the Naked Rambler was "Causing alarm to the lieges", whereas in that Belgian case I posted about a couple of days ago, naked ramblers were "Causing alarm to Liége".
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 19, 2015, 06:15:45 PM
I thought of Steven last night. The recollection that just a few days ago (Wednesday to be exact) it was nice enough to wander naked in a local park while last night a snow squall quickly coated everything in white! As fast as it developed and the fact that we are at elevation a step or two outside revealed a stinging cold aided by the wind. Road surfaces quickly froze which resulted in overpasses becoming dangerous. My thoughts turned to what would Steven do confronted with such a sudden change in weather.

There is a vague recollection of a Civics class where we discussed the different types of justice systems and the conclusion that the French system of trying to prove one's innocence would be the most difficult. All those memories of things long ago. Keep up the good work as the postings trigger brain function that may ward off dementia! Or maybe I'd just be seen as a silly old man who forgot his clothes again!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on December 19, 2015, 06:38:13 PM
John P, nice pun.  Good thinking! Keep it up!

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 20, 2015, 06:27:29 PM
Steven would take shelter in a pub and have a warm tea if caught out. He has been known to dress to the weather, especially around the campsite.

The other night at the sweat benefit, the outdoor affair was being threatened by a chilly storm and some sprinkles. I wore only a terry robe for convenience, but my car key had fallen out somewhere. I spent most of an hour searching, wondering where I might sleep that night. DF was baking Christmas cookies an hour away with her daughter, my son was out carousing with friends and not answering, but I was among friends. The key had been found in the obvious place by a slightly dimwitted but likable friend and placed in an odd place. Throughout the cool night I would stop in the sweat, get my body heated and then participate freely until the cold became uncomfortable again. I didn't wear the robe until later in the evening. There is always a kind, compassionate soul, or a friend when someone is in need.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 23, 2015, 10:15:09 AM
Long article in today's Times by Danny Finklestien. He supports the idea of nudity but also supports the imprisonment of Steve Gough on the basis of disobeying court orders seeing the rule of the courts as important. He seems to have missed the point that simple nudity is not illegal and the court makes orders that make it illegal for SG to be naked in the same places as it is legal for others can be, e.g. Studland Beach. You can read the article  here (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4648118.ece)

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on December 23, 2015, 02:02:41 PM


Quote
he can’t be allowed to make up his rules and choose to ignore ours....


Like most reporters Mr. Danny Finklestien views himself as an advocate of freedom but he actually supports government control of our lives.  Its OK to be free as long as you kiss their robes and obey like good little sheep.

Steve didn't violate their "rules."   Being naked is legal.   Its the black robes who make up rules in order to own and control people.   They are the ones who should not be allowed to make up rules. 

Mr. Finklestien is a jerk.   
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on December 23, 2015, 05:01:29 PM
My sincere apologies I googled the piece and it came up in full. I'm a subscriber and didn't realise I was still signed in. I'm reluctant to paste it in here for copyright reasons.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 23, 2015, 08:19:33 PM
 Here, the politicians shout, law and order, zero tolerance, three convictions and you're gone all day, and now in the UK absco. Like the law and its government make no mistakes? These laws are now all being questioned as they don't work, with a prison population of 2.3 million with little results, here. Hopefully, Steven has the Crown's unjust court system waste deep in the big muddy and they will have to be seen as the foolish pigs, unjust, irrational. Life imprisonment at millions of dollars just for nudity makes them look like fools and makes people rethink the issue of body freedom.

There seems to be no actual appeal to a higher court with this absco thing. It stays in a lower court. There is constitutional law in the US, that requires that all be equal under the law. Maybe for once the law, a right, a fundamental principle needs to be taken from here and consumed in the UK. So much US law has originated from English law. Still, law makers try to put the worst of legal developments in the UK and use them as models for here, like those cameras on the streets. The 14th amendment should protect us in this instance.

Now, if we could just get the ethics of Queen Victoria off of the American public's backs, like the UK has...UK nudity law sounds like a good dream, past this ordeal of a naked rambler.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 24, 2015, 07:18:33 AM
Just got the new National Geographic. It's about parks. There is a section about healthy release of stress in nature. Four of the nine photos show people enjoying nude recreation. One of the other five is of kids in a snowy forest. There's hope.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 24, 2015, 03:48:54 PM
I am shocked to say the least. When National Geographic was taken over I expected a complete change in content.
Just got the new National Geographic. It's about parks. There is a section about healthy release of stress in nature. Four of the nine photos show people enjoying nude recreation. One of the other five is of kids in a snowy forest. There's hope.
Jbee

If only the stigma of nude recreation could be removed. How many people have admitted to skinny dipping sometime during their lifetime in a poll where their identity is hidden but would never admit to it in a group of friends. Someday nude recreation should be put to a referendum of voters who would dcide if areas should be set aside. The results would b of interest!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on December 24, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
http://mic.com/articles/131144/a-dad-is-quite-literally-in-hot-water-for-posting-a-naked-bathtime-photo-with-his-kid#.UUhY9bmdR

Interesting take on the "not in front of the children" theme - of particular note is his comment: "The wide majority of people were on my side. Of course, there was a little number of people who were really, really upset by the picture, but who gives a shit about them? That's the weird thing about this whole debate. Somehow the people who are most scared of nudity got the upper hand."

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on December 24, 2015, 05:12:53 PM
The whole "not in front of the children" theme has lost it's luster as an argument. In fact the whole idea that children are harmed by seeing adults nude is ludicrous. I have noted often that my household had a open policy as it pertained to nudity, not as a 24/7/365 thing but as a casual going to and from the bathroom or dressing near the heat in the winter. In fact if it had not been for the growth of suburbia in our area I may have well grown up as a nudist. We dressed for the people living around us, not the family.

On a side note, at a recent family gathering my brother in law and I were discussing the sex crimes n the Catholic Church. Despite years of being alter boys and being with many priests neither of us had ever been approached. My brother in law said that maybe he wasn't desirable enough and I added maybe we were too confident. As an after thought perhaps the fact that I did have a body confidence made me less of a target?

I have read a number of articles on family nudity and most are opinions not backed up with any data. Jbee, help me out here. If memory serves me right didn't you have a post on the old SNS about research you were going to do only to find that someone had already done it? The name(s) escape me at this time but I'm sure there is a book written covering this subject.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 24, 2015, 08:15:20 PM

I have read a number of articles on family nudity and most are opinions not backed up with any data. Jbee, help me out here. If memory serves me right didn't you have a post on the old SNS about research you were going to do only to find that someone had already done it? The name(s) escape me at this time but I'm sure there is a book written covering this subject.
Growing Up Without Shame: Social Nudity: Its Effect on Children
By: Dennis Craig Smith, w/ Dr. William Sparks

There is nothing to the "what about the Kids" argument against body freedom. The evidence is hands down.

Also Nudewalker wrote, "If only the stigma of nude recreation could be removed. How many people have admitted to skinny dipping sometime during their lifetime in a poll where their identity is hidden but would never admit to it in a group of friends. Someday nude recreation should be put to a referendum of voters who would dcide if areas should be set aside. The results would b of interest!"

35% of Americans have skinny-dipped with the opposite sex. The numbers are increasing, up from 25% in 2006. More than ever, nudity is acceptable. The statistics in California are even more starkly in favor of. These questions are addressed at: http://www.naturisteducation.org/nef.2015.us.poll/

Areas being set aside need to be only an incremental step toward total body acceptance. These areas make the statement that it is okay, and provide a safe training ground for free range naturist activist.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on December 29, 2015, 06:14:35 PM
I seem to recall from documentary that Gough mostly dresses when he finished his days naked hiking when camping or at his mum's house.  Mind you he was in solitary in Prison for refusing to dress, but was that for protest?
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 06, 2016, 07:13:08 PM
Vermont, the Ledges and naturist activism:
http://www.naturistaction.org/Local_Issues/Ledges/ledges.html
Happy ending:
http://www.naturistaction.org/AlertsAdvisoriesUpdates/UPDATES/Ledges_11-06-02/ledges_11-06-02.html

The evil greed of developers strike at the heart again.
Its a big country, that requires a big war chest to preserve its freedoms.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on January 06, 2016, 08:18:33 PM
A great, if expensive victory.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on January 07, 2016, 03:08:57 AM
This is a link to the story I mentioned in a post on Jbee's trip thread comcerning top free laws in New Hampshire.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/news/nh-nudity-bill-ignites-social-media-firestorm/13025237

I do not know of any outside influences except for some top free movement advocates. Sorry I don't have any other links to the rest of the story, Only addition is it stems from a topless sunbathing incident.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 08, 2016, 06:23:40 AM
PJComp wrote on the Ventana Canyon Trip report thread: "Is the Ledges story still going on - it's datelined 2002.."

You are correct! I didn't notice that. It isn't there on the current NAC site, now that I check. I don't know how I arrived at this older article/page. I assumed that I was on the current NAC form and glanced over the date. Son of a gun, if internet channeling and my assumptions haven't made my bad!
Thank-you, for pointing that out.

I do like what I find at their website now:
    VERMONT

TITLE 13 Crimes and Criminal Procedure
  PART 1 Crimes
   CHAPTER 59. Lewdness and Prostitution
     Subchapter 1. Lewd and Indecent Conduct

§ 2601. Lewd and lascivious conduct

A person guilty of open and gross lewdness and lascivious behavior shall be imprisoned not more than five years or fined not more than $300.00, or both.

Amended 1981, No. 223 (Adj. Sess.), § 23.

Nude ain't lude.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on January 22, 2016, 04:35:27 PM
NY Times: How to be Naked in Public

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/magazine/how-to-be-naked-in-public.html?_r=4

Begin by practicing in private. ‘‘Sure, you can be nude in your own shower,’’ Stéphane Deschênes says, ‘‘but how about sitting in the living room watching TV? How about having dinner?’’

Deschênes oversees all non-­European countries in the International Naturist Federation, an organization with headquarters in Austria that acts as a sort of United Nations of nudism. He also teaches a course called Public Nudity: History, Law and Science at the University of Toronto and owns a popular nudist camp on the city’s outskirts. ‘‘Your confidence in who you are should not be based on the artificiality of your clothing,’’ Deschênes says.


More on link above ....
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on January 23, 2016, 02:57:08 AM
I remember reading an article on how to become a nudist. It was after my divorce and during a period when I was trying to discover myself again. It was simple, just remove your clothes then go back to what you do normally.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 26, 2016, 10:59:27 PM
Springfield Missouri, the battle rages, women get out their guns near the armory, liberty, and fraternity, equal rights for all!...a step toward the correct direction...AND it ain't California or NYC this time, but the home of the Springfield rifle.
http://tucson.com/nipples-freed---temporarily-harsh-ex-cop-convicted-alligator/collection_8fa82e56-63cc-522f-8671-be7f208e5e1f.html

You'll have to click the arrow about 7 times to find the nipple article.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on January 27, 2016, 05:24:37 PM
It seems as if these "free the nipple" skirmishes are breaking out all over the US. Not only California and NYC as Jbee pointed out but also in New England and now Missouri. But this one is interesting considering the location as being in the bastion of concervative America. Just look at the retoric comming out of Iowa lately. As much as I would like to see all anti-nudity laws struck down this movement could be seen as a natural step in the progression toward body freedom.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on January 27, 2016, 06:00:51 PM
As much as I would like to see all anti-nudity laws struck down this movement could be seen as a natural step in the progression toward body freedom.


There is NO freedom without body freedom.   Nothing is more basic to freedom than ownership and control of our own bodies.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on January 29, 2016, 09:48:00 PM
The president of Iran visited Italy, and they took him to a museum where he could see European art through the ages. But to save his delicate modesty, nude images were covered with boxes. Some people in Italy thought this was very funny, and this cartoon was produced. (The captions say, "Statues in the Capitoline Museum were covered so as not to offend Iranian President Rouhani". Then "The Italian solution" and "A more logical solution".)
(http://tpc.pc2.netdna-cdn.com/peoples_resource/image/37300-Italy_Cover_Statues_Iranian_President.jpg)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on January 31, 2016, 05:54:21 PM
I have a few Facebook (or should I say had) that had a great time with this story. However when I pointed out that they not long ago posted negative comments on breast feeding and did their fair share of body shaming. In other words, they are closer to Islamic thinking than they care to admit. So then I got attacked with their "Christian" values and I responded those statues were carved in Christian nations. Usually under the support of the church, so stone is permitted but real flesh and blood isn't? I have not checked my friends list yet but I'm sure a few have deleted me.http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on February 01, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Most of my Facebook friends are naturists to begin with! But I added one recently (exactly how this came about is a rather complex story) who is pretty obviously a member of the guns-and-Jesus school of politics and outlook on life, and I'm wondering how long our friendship will last. However, I keep a fairly low profile on Facebook as far as naturism is concerned. At least I think I do--I'm never sure what's visible to someone else, either casually or if they choose to investigate. Certainly if someone looked at my friends, they might wonder why I know so many people who don't wear shirts.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on March 10, 2016, 11:00:19 PM
"Clothing is the 2nd most polluting Industry"   News article...
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1985936-young-entrepreneur-battles-fast-fashion-with-the-30-year-jumper/

Your own skin is the most "sustainable" and "green" outfit you can wear. Fashion is the 2nd most polluting industry and most of the year it is completely unnecessary. Even in northern latitudes we really only waste all that pollution because everyone else does. Take it off. Don't wear it. Don't buy it. Don't wash it. Go outside without it. You aren't going to turn into a pumpkin if you aren't polluting the earth. Go with the most sustainable outfit provided by Mother Nature.

It is an advert for less throw away clothes, but the obvious statement is that all clothing is pollution. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on March 11, 2016, 04:30:21 AM
I just happened to stumble across this on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCsGLWrfE4Y
About 14 minutes into it, they get into biologically produced fabric and it rolls from there. Scary environmental impact stats, about water (waterless dying), wearing them longer, Patagonia's initiative, more.

So, if ya just gotta, there are thoughtful alternatives and more coming.

I've been out everyday working on a construction project, nude. It got windy and cold...uncomfortable. I voluntarily put on some clothing. We were working with some pressure treated wood and splintery material, and old termite eaten logs. I put on some clothing during that. I did the the rebar, and steel lathe with only gloves and various shoes. So, I guess there can be a reasonable place for clothing...sometimes...

...I'm still considering the plastic roof cement, roofing paper, and the ferro-cement aspects and what to wear or not. I'll probably nail down the roof naked, although the new neighbor's construction project is probably in view in the distance. The sun feels great, the tan's loving it, cleanup and laundry has been easy.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on March 12, 2016, 04:36:44 PM
Just a few additions Jbee. Last episode of Project Runway was a challenge to dress naturists in winter clothing they were comfortable wearing. The designers all took input from their "models" and worked from there. In the end and despite protests from the judges it was determined that although the clothes were not couture they did serve their intent as they were the clothing that someone who didn't want to wear clothes was comfortable wearing. As usual as the misses and her friend discussed the show I could add input from a naturists point of view.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on March 12, 2016, 06:02:51 PM
Curious to know what they came up with, I looked up the website, but found nothing about nude fashions. Can you tell me the episode? I don't have TV. Is it a new season or something?


I do my best to be where the weather suits ma clothes, naked that is. I wear a house and sauna in the winter time. I wear sunshine for warmth and hide from the chilling wind. I wear occasional robe or blanket...until I must trip into town.


What did they come up with? Light goosedown something? Just a flannel shirt? Gloves? Was there footwear? Did they assume the exhibitionist take, like see-through, or chaps? Sensual materials, like satin linings? Dense silk layers? Or was this all fashion and no function?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on March 12, 2016, 06:18:19 PM
That was the best part of the show the fact that there wasn't the usual sensual hate couture feel but more practical and even as our friend described dowdy. One woman said she liked to wrap in a blanket to stay warm so the designer fashioned a hooded wrap jacket. It was described as an overstuffed housecoat by a judge but the naturist loved it for it's function. The winner was a new take on a peacoat for a retired military man. Nice combination of fabrics and patterns and yes, I would wear it. Let me see if I can find any kind of links to the show.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on March 12, 2016, 06:33:25 PM
Jbee,  try mylifetime.com/shows/project-runway-all-stars and look for the episode that aired on March 10th. They usually repeat last weeks show an hour before this weeks show. If anyone gets to see it I am curious to hear your input. It was quite an exchange this past week as I usually look for the garment construction and fit. This week was a whole new discussion than normal between our friend and the wife.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on March 12, 2016, 09:40:33 PM
They put clothes on naturists. I expected something minimal, but functional in cold. I failed to see much relationship to the naturist experience, sensuality and utilitarian function. Nice clothes, but how were they "naturist" clothes?

Obsessed with striking clothing design and style they are.

I was actually looking for something that one might wear around the naturist resort on a chilly night. They didn't get it, or I didn't get it...guess I'm looking for a sweat shirt and a kilt, or a robe and baggy leggings. The kilt did come close, like the designer was listening. The near loser might have taken that nice feeling South American wool into a paerro type thing and a wrap, easy to get out off and in to.

For some reason...something isn't resonating with this whole thing. Putting clothes on naturist, could be it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on March 13, 2016, 02:31:45 PM
I understand your viewpoint Jbee. Putting clothes on a naturist is a contradiction in terms. As I mentioned there is more of an interest in construction (my mother was a seamstress) so there is the attention to detail. Often there is a sadness on my part that I did not learn more from her as perhaps there would be the designs as you mentioned. As for the competition itself; north east winters were in mind so more of a heavier construction was involved. The kilt was spot on but from experience a cold wind blowing up underneath is a numbing feeling. We all liked the idea of the wrap coat with the hood but felt it was overdone with the additional patterns. My favorite was the winner; the loose construction of the pants and the fit of the jacket were perfect if something had to be worn in harsh weather.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on March 13, 2016, 05:49:22 PM
Quote
For some reason...something isn't resonating with this whole thing.

Putting naked people on the show might, of course, have something to do with trying to improve the show's ratings. Or am I being too cynical ... ?

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on March 13, 2016, 06:07:25 PM
Quote
For some reason...something isn't resonating with this whole thing.

Putting naked people on the show might, of course, have something to do with trying to improve the show's ratings. Or am I being too cynical ... ?

peter
I am sure there is that element also but being on that particular cable channel there is little reason to expect a ratings spike. In fact the misses never mentioned it beforehand as she does with any nudist/naturist programming so it must not have been heavily advertised.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on March 13, 2016, 07:03:47 PM
Quote
For some reason...something isn't resonating with this whole thing.

Putting naked people on the show might, of course, have something to do with trying to improve the show's ratings. Or am I being too cynical ... ?

peter


Most people are starved for the sight of other human beings, creatures of their own species.  Of course a show gets a bigger audience when they show member of our own species without hiding them under draperies. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on April 13, 2016, 03:59:03 PM
http://lifestyle.one/closer/news-real-life/in-the-news/cows-watch-us-ploughing-nude/

I came across this on another forum and found it brought back some memories. Since being raised in a farming community there are memories of walking the fence line of a pasture, nude of course, as we looked for places the cows could get through. I also remember the outside shower before entering the house.

One of the comments was you could not do that in the US anymore as child protection would be there and the farm would be confiscated. Sorry state that that would be the first thing said after the posting.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 13, 2016, 05:25:03 PM
Yea, the  reign of terror that CPS has wrought. Just a couple of news horror stories have everyone terrified of an out of bounds nut job making up new laws without due process and imposing them on people.

But what about the children?!!....

That comment is a contagious negative bomb! I just wrote a disgusted rant response, the first thing in this morning and erased it, before posting it here. AND I got up on the right side of bed, before that. 

Well, the farmer mentality of practicality has given us a blessing. This being published is a very good thing.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on April 13, 2016, 05:56:33 PM
I had my own run in with CPS after my divorce. People calling my parents to tell them things my ex was doing.She was leaving the child home alone at night to work nightshift and often on weekends to do her thing. When I asked for help the answer was get a lawyer and an investigator. They were too busy for domestic problems.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 25, 2016, 07:09:12 PM
For our cousins across the pond. A new restaurant in London.

Nude dining. The Bunyadi (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/20/475040673/a-new-naked-restaurant-says-it-has-an-8-000-person-waiting-list-to-dine) which has A long waiting list (http://thebunyadi.com/home.php).

It looks like a gimmick, but it's good natured press for those inclined toward the natural dining attire I suppose. With each article the list of patrons gets longer. It's up to 11,000 names (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2016/04/22/londons-first-nude-restaurant-has-a-waiting-list-11000-names-long/) in this one.

No mention at all of the cuisine. For some I suppose it doesn't matter. Google "bunyadi" and you will get all sorts of responses to the idea. From humorous to skpetical to anal. One article in The Guardian was downright odd with strange ideas about dining out in general.

At least there is a conversation about normal human bodies.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on April 26, 2016, 01:13:35 AM
If they have 11,000 people in line its time to open a 2nd venue. 

It could be a trend, or a chain. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on April 26, 2016, 01:28:02 PM
It's a "pop-up" venue - using premises between commercial lets for about 3 months only.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on April 26, 2016, 07:31:09 PM
It's a "pop-up" venue - using premises between commercial lets for about 3 months only.


Then its a trial period.   And with 11,000 people wanting to eat there a smart merchant would open a permanent place and maybe another.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 27, 2016, 05:05:23 PM
Is it get on the bandwagon hype? The cool thing to talk about? In? Using supply and demand to create a kind of false demand? Something very good, but the controller only wants to do it a few months and then go back lying naked on a tropical beach?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 28, 2016, 07:15:25 PM
If it's a genuine trial period to see how the idea fares, that's fine. They might decide to go all in and make a go of it. But I can't see such a venture lasting much beyond the novelty of it.

But then again, who knows. Stranger things have been successful.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 29, 2016, 12:04:20 AM
It would last a while in Vegas. Novelty goes on forever there.

Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on April 29, 2016, 06:45:28 AM
There's nothing older than novelty ...

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 29, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

A sentiment more than 2500 yrs. old.

Believe me in Las Vegas there is nothing new except for the packaging. Some places you can walk into are downright creepy.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 23, 2016, 05:35:27 PM
Here's a fellow (http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/naked_cyclist_spotted_riding_through_crowfield_1_4544357)  with a devil-may-care attitude.

The picture is blurry in the distance but it looks like someone is ahead of him. Any of our UK members live in this area? Can't tell if that vest has Roger of Roget on it.

Is there a WNBR in the UK this year?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on May 23, 2016, 06:58:00 PM
Usual range of WNBRs as far as I know - London, Bristol, Brighton for certain, can't remember where the others are. Cardiff? Think that one's on again. None that spring to mind in East Anglia, so maybe our Crowfield rider was having his own NBR. At least the news story reflects humour, not horror.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on May 23, 2016, 07:05:17 PM
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/14510923.Concern_over_naked_rambler_on_mountain/

On the other hand, a naked hiker in Wales is bringing out the usual panic reaction.

“I don’t think it is right," said the witness.

The annoying/worrying bit of the report is added by the newspaper, with no attribution: "Offences for someone being naked in public can range from indecent exposure to a public-order crime. " Reads liek it came from the police, though.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on May 24, 2016, 12:00:51 AM
I've spent a couple of days (several years apart) with Richard Collins, the former "Cambridge Naked Cyclist", but he now lives in the Bexhill area.

"Offences for someone being naked in public can range from indecent exposure to a public-order crime" sounds as if it's meant to intimidate people who don't know the law. "Indecent exposure" isn't part of any law, and the Sexual Offences Act was written carefully so as to exclude non-sexual nudity. But it is true that when nudity is prosecuted, it's treated as an offence under the Public Order Act.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 24, 2016, 02:02:20 AM
Well, the guy is right. He is getting bolder because he is testing the reactions of people. If no one has a problem, why wouldn't he?

Like Bob, said in his post in the, Stealth in an Urban Environment thread:
". . . when the same person has seen a naked person 2 or 3 times, it no longer is uncommon and they quit reacting."

I guess this complainer imagines it is all done to offend him.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 24, 2016, 05:12:03 AM
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/14510923.Concern_over_naked_rambler_on_mountain/

On the other hand, a naked hiker in Wales is bringing out the usual panic reaction.

“I don’t think it is right," said the witness.

The annoying/worrying bit of the report is added by the newspaper, with no attribution: "Offences for someone being naked in public can range from indecent exposure to a public-order crime. " Reads liek it came from the police, though.

peter

Could be that the runner is misreading the complainer's reaction and thinking that he is making progress with the locals.

Someone is annoyed with the unusual, "I don't think that it is right." The observer sounds so like the ignorance of a robot, "It does not compute. It does not compute."

Nice to hear the lack reaction from the police.

Now, where did the "You hear of things like this escalating" remark come from. What is going on in this dweebs imaginative fearful mind and where did that seed come from?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 24, 2016, 06:45:10 PM
I think the quote was, “You hear about these things that progress to more serious matters."

This usually refers to what is going on in the person's mind. 1st this, then that, then the next thing you know people are running round doing whatever they want to. Meaning that this person isn't doing what he wants to for whatever reason and is upset about that.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on May 24, 2016, 07:12:59 PM
Of course, as is always the case, the shocked onlooker is not too shocked to reach for his phone and snap a picture...

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on May 24, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
i started reading the readers comments.... someone said theyre more offended at seeing overweight people...it kicked off from there,.   seems overweight people are  far more of an issue for the public than the odd naked rambler ,
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 25, 2016, 06:14:28 PM
The motives behind anyone's behavior tend to be defined by the beliefs of the observer. If you don't have direct information you really don't know what is going on. This is the reason why the authorities question people. To get at the intent. Of course, if you aren't doing anything illegal there's no justification for questioning.

Those that commented negatively on the article seem to be of the type that merely observe and believe their own fictional account.

Others were of the opinion that there didn't seem to be any harm being done.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on May 25, 2016, 07:01:13 PM
Quote
The motives behind anyone's behavior tend to be defined by the beliefs of the observer.

So right. That's also why people are so often surprised by others' behaviour or reactions, because they expect the others to perform as they would themselves.

In this case the naked runner is making the same mistake; as jbee says, he thinks the lack of overt reaction from people who have repeatedly seen him (and he has repeatedly seen) is gaining him acceptance. They think he is getting bolder and potentially more dangerous.

Same meeting, same people, two completely misunderstood reactions.

peter

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 29, 2016, 10:51:25 PM
It seems one of the (place tongue firmly in cheek) most open-minded, liberal and progressive (remove tongue from cheek) campuses in America is at it again.

I have read many articles lately how the PC mentality has infected our bastions of learning, effectively shutting down the open and free exchange of ideas, no matter the subject. UC Berkley, always (sic) at the forefront of political, social and cultural advancement seems to be advancing in the tradition of Wrong-way (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9564645) Roy Riegels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Riegels).

See this article about the Campus Nudist Expelled (http://articles.latimes.com/1993-01-27/news/mn-1941_1_uc-berkeley) in California.
At least Riegels made an honest mistake and owned up to it.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 29, 2016, 11:51:12 PM
1993. Andrew Martinez? We don't get it?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on May 30, 2016, 11:17:11 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/How-Berkeley-s-Naked-Guy-met-a-tragic-end-3232119.php

http://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-magazine/may-june-2009-go-bare/out-eden


Sadly "Naked Guy" Martinez died in 2006, but his brief stand for naked rights sounds remarkably similar to our own Steve Gough.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 30, 2016, 04:12:33 PM
Well, at least someone is paying attention, Jbee. My mistake. I didn’t even notice that. I will do my homework next time.

Yeah, Peter. When I saw Jbee’s reply I decided to check to see what he had been up to in the last 14 yrs. I found the same articles you did.

As you say, this is a sad story. I briefly considered removing the post, but decided to add a comment about his circumstances. While this is a sad story, his notoriety occurred apparently while still healthy and events surrounding him were part of that publicity storm. It does in fact shine a light on cultural trends of the day.

I suppose it has some relevance today but the tragic end of this story probably makes it less a commentary on nudity than on the risks and dangers of celebrity.

The ‘Out of Eden’ article was I thought a better response than any thing I could come up with.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 30, 2016, 06:40:42 PM
All of this talk about notoriety in the "Eden" article got me to thinking. I don't remember mainstream media coverage of "The Naked Guy." I heard about him in more alternative media, naturist/nudist publications. The only mainstream that I can recall was Playboy and Playgirl. It wasn't a Johnny Carson/Opra thing, and it wasn't in the news as far as I know. Perhaps this is why Eyesup didn't recognize him, or remember him. His notoriety, which was mentioned, may have been more local Bay Area, like the other examples in the article. I do remember at the time, thinking that it would be good if he got more publicity and I looked for more of what he had to say and what he was teaching the masses. I didn't find much. Eventually there was a good article in "N" magazine mentioning his rally one afternoon on Berkley campus and occasional lecture visits to naturist resorts. Even those, didn't sit well with many of the nude listeners.

Stuff like this on the net will keep him legend.

 Does anyone remember coverage (and I don't mean the pixils ;D) of him in national media?

There was some anger at his tactics of change at the time of the passing of new anti-nudity laws in Berkley. His coming to the pulpit and addressing the council while nude was thought to be what pushed them into the ordinance. Otherwise, those restrictive laws may have not been passed. On the other side, usually a council, when it gets to that point and goes into public vote is already set, so the one article that accused him of blowing it for the rest of us may have just been an opinion of perspective. Standing ground and pushing ones natural rights to ones freedom tends to create a push back, eventually, like what Sara Moore and the group of nudes in San Francisco experienced.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 30, 2016, 10:20:19 PM
Quote from: Jbee
Perhaps this is why Eyesup didn't recognize him, or remember him. His notoriety, which was mentioned, may have been more local Bay Area, like the other examples in the article.

No, I had never heard of him.

It may have been for the reasons you said, but also in 1992 we had a new addition to our family and that was consuming most of our attention and time. Not much in the way of energy or time to be spending on pop culture news.

Free time outside of work, childcare and normal distractions was hastily devoted to sleep!  :D

The points about pushback in the form of restrictive ordinances because he "crossed" a line do demonstrate how you have to be careful with your tactics.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 31, 2016, 05:23:04 AM
I was similarly busy and may have missed evening news and the talk show circuit. So, anyone else? Remember Martinez and where you heard about him?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on May 31, 2016, 10:21:26 AM
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/14525315.PICTURED__Who_is_the_naked_rambler__Man_takes_walk_on_the_wild_side_at_Bolton_beauty_spot/

The best bit about this one is the paragraph near the end which actually gets the law right!

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on May 31, 2016, 01:24:27 PM
I didn't find much. Eventually there was a good article in "N" magazine mentioning his rally one afternoon on Berkley campus and occasional lecture visits to naturist resorts. Even those, didn't sit well with many of the nude listeners.

Stuff like this on the net will keep him legend.

Does anyone remember coverage (and I don't mean the pixils ;D) of him in national media?
Jbee


I was reading N magazine in those years.  Seems to me that I heard about "The Naked Guy" fairly often in nudist and other media.  That was before Internet.  He noticed that there is no law against being naked in California, like many places.  Since he was going about ordinary daily business he was legal being naked.  There were a few times when other people joined him but not many. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 31, 2016, 07:59:20 PM
The bad thing is, Peter, is that they are asking for people to report and identify someone that is NOT breaking the law. What are they going to do if they find out who he is?

Kinda creepy.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on June 01, 2016, 12:26:25 AM
Harass and embarrass are two things that come to mind.

The whole story is ridiculous as are some of the comments."Think about the children" etc.  I think the silly season has arrived early this year. I have to wonder what the guy was doing with such a large lump of camera. I understand him doing a risk assessment walk. Perhaps he's a twitcher which would be fair enough.

It's almost tempting to ring up the paper with a name not that I'd suggest that for a minute

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 01, 2016, 02:11:45 AM
This lady's experience and evolution is inspirational. Body freedom and the acceptance that it teaches is a cure to many of the worlds problems. SO many people that I have talked with have had similar experiences.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo.C6pUxXUEgA8xgsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Life+Changing+Moments+Michelle+Wallen&vid=fb721b3ea81ad3113ed0c1bf69290489&turl=http%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP.V2e8bc13f364e1f781859e01c8b105ab2%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D168%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDpQOTjgxt6g&tit=Life+Changing+Moments%3A+Clothing+Optional+|+Michelle+Wallen+|+TEDxChemungRiver&c=0&h=168&w=300&l=650&sigr=11bivvqes&sigt=12dnsn2ak&sigi=131t32p37&age=1452100898&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 01, 2016, 10:17:30 AM
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/14527783.__39_It__39_s_nature__39____Naked_rambler__39_s_words_to_stunned_cyclist_after_second_sighting_on_Winter_Hill/

Seems the good folk of Bolton (or at least the local paper) are getting quite worked up over their naked rambler. Another meeting, another photo (another rear shot), and yet more "what about the children" responses.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on June 01, 2016, 10:44:33 AM
The latest comment about physically assaulting a naturist walker is quite offensive and illustrates the mindset we have to deal with

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on June 01, 2016, 03:41:38 PM
Macho bravado! He'd most likely wet himself if he actually confronted someone who would return his advances. It's not hard to be the big tuff guy when your sitting behind a keyboard. Same as the posters who body shame celebrities; they should have to post a full length picture with their comments. Why do I have the feeling that most sit behind a keyboard with a soda and snacks? Thread drift again, sorry.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on June 01, 2016, 07:54:41 PM
If you look here you'll see there's a poll about walking naked. You can see it  here (http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/14527783.__39_It__39_s_nature__39____Naked_rambler__39_s_words_to_stunned_cyclist_after_second_sighting_on_Winter_Hill/?ref=mrb&lp=2)

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 01, 2016, 08:40:10 PM
If you click the poll, it is before you can check the stats. I'd like to know how many participated. If I could have seen the stats before I clicked and seen a change with my one vote, It would be a small sampling.

John Goode's comment needs some likes to push it up to the top of the comment listings and to get read. Any helpers?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on June 01, 2016, 08:57:58 PM
I wouldn't like to suggest it but if you were to go incognito in your browser you could probably vote again.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 01, 2016, 09:02:36 PM
After registration, you are locked in to no voting.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 02, 2016, 12:31:12 AM
I was similarly busy and may have missed evening news and the talk show circuit. So, anyone else? Remember Martinez and where you heard about him?
Jbee
I was reading N magazine in those years.  Seems to me that I heard about "The Naked Guy" fairly often in nudist and other media.  That was before Internet...

Speak for yourself, Bob. I was on the proto-Internet reading "rec.nude" in 1983, and by the 90s there were thriving naturist discussion boards. I'm certain that I heard about Andrew Martinez there.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 02, 2016, 12:49:21 AM
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/14525315.PICTURED__Who_is_the_naked_rambler__Man_takes_walk_on_the_wild_side_at_Bolton_beauty_spot/

The best bit about this one is the paragraph near the end which actually gets the law right!
peter

Actually in the most important aspect, they aren't right about the law, though if everyone believed what the paper said, we'd be better off. What they said was:
In England and Wales it is not an offence to be naked in public but it does become an offence if it can be proved that the person stripped off with the intention to upset and shock.

That's true for Section 4A of the Public Order Act, "Intentional harassment, alarm or distress". But they're ignoring Section 5, which says:
A person is guilty of an offence if he uses threatening or abusive words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour... within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

It's always seemed to me as if that section's existence makes section 4A irrelevant, because there's no mention of deliberate intent in it, so the claimed harm to the viewer might or might or might not be deliberate but could be illegal either way. Anyway, Section 5 has indeed been used successfully to prosecute people for being naked in public, though sometimes people haven't been convicted or managed to get off on appeal. Both Richard Collins and Steven Gough have been convicted under Section 5, and this guy in Bolton could end up getting hit with it too. Unfortunately the law in England and Wales isn't entirely benign, and Scotland is worse.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 02, 2016, 02:06:24 AM
The internet, technically speaking, has been around since the early 60's. DARPA helped fund the development so tech and science centers in the universities could communicate. I remember bulletin boards being around from that period JohnP.

The World Wide Web as we know it has been around about 25 yrs., ca. 1990-91.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 02, 2016, 03:03:29 AM
One thing that is pleasant to note, the newspaper in Bolton is asking who their local naked rambler is, but there's no mention that the police want to talk to him.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 02, 2016, 10:01:18 AM
http://www.southwestjournal.com/voices/my-minneapolis/2016/06/the-night-50-kids-ran-naked-through-a-minneapolis-park/

Good game, should be encouraged in all schools

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 02, 2016, 09:22:10 PM
Satellite radio and big record companies killed the diversity and protest of youth music. It was music that used to make the wildfire on the news. I'd love to see this thing go national.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 03, 2016, 01:38:15 AM
Cooling off would have been easy. Just jump in the lake or pool or run through the sprinklers.
Then just wait to dry off.

Duane


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on June 04, 2016, 11:21:10 PM
I ran through the sprinklers today.  Weather was warm but cloudy and sun peeped through late afternoon.  I had been doing some heavy, sweaty gardening wearing overalls and stout shoes.  At a whim I laid out the sprinkler, turned it on and shucked out of the overalls for a naked romp around the cool shower.

My wife was sitting on the patio in full view and raised the usual objections.  Before she got very far I asked her, whilst cavorting in the spray, to consider the extent to which she was spoiling my bit of fun and she would have to put up with my naked body prancing about the lawn for a very little while. Happily she complied but refused the invitation to join me!  It was only a short romp as the water got really shivery fairly quickly! 

It was a very effective cool-down!  I thanked her for her indulgence!

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on June 05, 2016, 07:34:24 PM
after lunch i parked the van i the back paddock and got the hose and broom to give it its anual wash , id nearly finished when the wife came out to see what i was doing, she commented that it was good i was barefoot on the wet grass grounding, never even mentioned i was in full view of the neighbours house some 200 yards away .

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 06, 2016, 12:57:32 AM
after lunch i parked the van i the back paddock and got the hose and broom to give it its anual wash , id nearly finished when the wife came out to see what i was doing, she commented that it was good i was barefoot on the wet grass grounding, never even mentioned i was in full view of the neighbours house some 200 yards away .


200 yards is way too far to be "in your face."   Good for you both for ignoring any casual observations from that distance.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on June 06, 2016, 08:56:23 AM
after lunch i parked the van i the back paddock and got the hose and broom to give it its anual wash , id nearly finished when the wife came out to see what i was doing, she commented that it was good i was barefoot on the wet grass grounding, never even mentioned i was in full view of the neighbours house some 200 yards away .


200 yards is way too far to be "in your face."   Good for you both for ignoring any casual observations from that distance.
I seem to recall that at one time in the UK a distance of 400 yards was regarded as far enough for no possible offense to be committed but I can't find any reference to this at the moment.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on June 06, 2016, 09:04:04 AM
five years ago she would have been panicing about the neighbours catching a glimpse, with passing years theres been a gradual increase in the time we both spend naked arround the garden and an acceptance that sooner or later the neighbours willl notice . ive parrallelled this with my gardening work , broaching the subject of naked gardening with clients has given me half a dozen gardens where i can strip off, some regular, some occassional, some whilst the client is present , some whilst theyre at work. some clients keep their distance whilst im naked others come and chat whilst i work.
this week , providing the weather cooperates ill be working naked for clients most of monday and tuesday , then working mostly at home for the rest of the week, 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 06, 2016, 05:42:29 PM
I've had a similar change.  10 years ago I was fearful of passing cars noticing me so I avoided the area of my land within sight of the road.  Over time I got more comfortable, and now I go about my business ignoring the casual passing person or neighbor.  I don't think anyone minds, or at least very few of them mind.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 09, 2016, 01:56:35 AM
This just in.   thousands of naked bodies do another photo shoot.

Grin and bare it! Thousands of Colombians brave chilly morning to pose naked 'in the name of peace' for US photographer Spencer Tunick's latest installation

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3627040/Thousands-Colombians-pose-naked-Bogota-photographer-Spencer-Tunick-s-latest-installation.html#ixzz4B2FyBfgS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3627040/Thousands-Colombians-pose-naked-Bogota-photographer-Spencer-Tunick-s-latest-installation.html#v-5174423473170761985
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 09, 2016, 06:05:01 PM
Any security concerns can be eliminated as there is no need to search anyone for concealed weapons.  ;D

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 10, 2016, 06:24:01 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3634011/German-nudists-fear-new-refugee-shelter-built-colony-bring-sex-assaults-members-migrants.html

Apart from the outdated use of the word "colony", another (potential) problem of a clash of cultures.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 10, 2016, 08:28:10 PM
It has been a conservative element, with roots in intolerant, misunderstanding religions and cultures, that have held back body freedom all over the world. Here is the problem in a microcosm. Free body culture has created tolerance and freedom. A group that is antithetical is placed next door. Suddenly the assurance given is for the freed people that they will be boxed in with fences and barriers.

There are basic generally constitutional values, identified as rights, making for a free and tolerant society. If you are entering a country and you don't hold those values, you shouldn't be there. The rights are the value of the country, not the economic benefits. It has taken a long time and much effort to create tolerance and body freedom, to get others more tolerant. Allowing 1.1 million people from intolerant non-democratic sexist cultures into a place the size of Germany is a dramatic problem. Why are they there? These people need to be heading to places like Indonesia, places similar. It's a big world. Having a big heart and sharing a country and resources is one thing, but giving ones freedoms away for any reason is not. You don't have to go home, but ya can't stay here.

This is like inviting someone into your home and having them criticize the food that you put on the table. Sure, it feels good to make ones guests feel welcome, adjust the menu to make them feel at home, but do you want them to move in? When some one comes to visit, it is alright to coverup to make them feel at ease, but eventually they better get used to seeing the uncovered, or leave, because they are then dictating.

Many see these opened doors as an act of religious tolerance, but it must go both ways. Because there are many strict Muslims among the refugees, here's an extreme example. I see young man walking down the street, his teenage wife walking a few paces behind him, covered in a full burka. Personally this angers me. I see it as abuse, wrong. I have to tolerate that culture called religion and that's difficult. If I walk arm in arm nude down the street with my lover and best friend, we're arrested. We don't get the same respect. It is our spirituality/religion, sense of equality, and personal rights that are not equally tolerated.

We'll see what the politicians think will get them re-elected. The placement is just plain inappropriate. Reading this cuts my open heart toward these people who have lost so much. It makes it cold. It corrupts my sense of caring for my fellows.

And then there's that "the immigrants are rapist" aspect to this story. That is the same fear and bating that used to be thrust on Blacks in the south. "They can't control themselves." I have old literature that propagandizes this very old thread of racism. It is still being used today.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 11, 2016, 02:15:38 AM
And if you are in the country, Jbee, you had best be ready to start deciding which of the new customs to start getting accustomed to 1st.

America has it's problems with accepting immigrants and assimilating  them, but we have had a lot of practice. Dumping large numbers of people from such a different culture without any preparation is a pot about to boil over. Those that immigrate do so with knowledge aforethought. These people are only aware aware of what they see in movies and/or news programs about their new abode.

I hope the authorities are aware of the risky situation they are creating.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 12, 2016, 05:32:11 PM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nudism-is-best-way-to-teach-sex-education-m8c2plm3s

Nice piece of work from British Naturism - unfortunately most of this articles is behind The Times' pay wall, but the first few paragraphs give the gist of it

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 13, 2016, 07:36:32 PM
Here's the study or whatever it is:  http://www.bn.org.uk/community/ccs_files/campaigns/ChildrenDeserveBetter_2016.pdf
I'm on a slow computer and I'll have to wait until I get home to read it. This is exciting to me. Some new ammunition. The most current stuff was getting kinda old, even though is hands-down whacks "What about the children" across the bottom.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 14, 2016, 12:26:54 AM
Naturism Booms in France

Naturism booms in France as young eager to ditch clothes

Published: 13 Jun 2016 15:44 GMT+02:00
Updated: 13 Jun 2016 15:44 GMT+02:00

France now boasts a full 460 spaces totally dedicated to naturists, most of which are camps or colonies. There are also 73 naturist beaches, 35 bed and breakfasts, and 24 nudist swimming pools.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160613/young-french-naturists-spark-boom-in-nudism
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 14, 2016, 01:09:06 PM
... unfortunately most of this article is behind The Times' pay wall...

Irrelevant, but that triggered a memory of a skit I saw decades ago on British TV. It's presented as a man-on-the-street interview, and there's a waist-up view of a man with no shirt on. It goes like this:

Interviewer: Pardon me sir, do I take it you've come from the nudist resort down the road?
Man: Yes, that's right. I'm just on my way back with the newspaper.
Interviewer: So, you're just walking through the village dressed that way? I'd have thought that this was a pretty old-fashioned place.
Man: Oh, you'd be surprised, they have some very advanced ideas around here. I don't have any trouble as long as I'm the one who stays behind The Times.

And then the camera pulls back and you can see he has a newspaper wrapped around his hips, kilt-like. Maybe less than brilliant, but I seem to have remembered it.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 15, 2016, 12:03:12 AM
I sat down and read the paper, contemplated it, dug a little deeper on some of the points made and the figures given. It is a kinda boorish intellectual language, maybe tedious, BUT choir, it does provide a good argument. It relies heavily on teen pregnancy rates evidence, but dose that well.

It does a good job showing how stupid does what stupid is. The 'ol irrational BS human stuff that Captain Kirk would do to irritate Spock, or failing intellectual capacity. Getting through that, takes quite a few pages before meat and potatoes pan out.
Like I wouldn't suggest it to my problematic neighbor, who just cops attitude without clear thinking on a regular basis. It certainly ain't soundbite mentality for the impatient. Good stuff though.

It is as good an argument for sex education, as a banner waving for body freedom and health.

Social nudity and body honesty and realism are depicted as key factors in levels of teen pregnancy. The UK is like three times the healthier European Societies and the USA was depicted as 5 times higher. I dug deeper on this and found this quick blast of statistics about the US population:
Teen Pregnancy Statistics

    In 2013 273,105 babies were born to women ages 15-19
    In 2013 there were 26.5 births for every 1,000 girls ages 15-19
    89% of teenage parents are unmarried
    86,000 teens aged 15-17 gave birth in 2012
    Nearly 1,700 teens aged 15-17 give birth every week
    About 77% percent of teenage pregnancies are unplanned
    4 in 10 teenage girls who had sex at 13 or 14 report the sex was unwanted or involuntary
    15% of teen pregnancies end in miscarriage
    30% of teenage pregnancies end in abortion

Teen Pregnancy by Ethnicity in 15-19 Year Old Girls

    41.7 per 1,000 Hispanic girls reported a teen pregnancy in 2013
    39.0 per 1,000 Black girls reported a teen pregnancy in 2013
    18.6 per 1,000 White girls reported a teen pregnancy in 2013

These teen pregnancy statistics have fallen dramatically since 2000 with:

    87.3 per 1,000 pregnancies in Hispanic teen girls
    79.2 per 1,000 pregnancies in Black teen girls
    32.6 per 1,000 pregnancies in White teen girls

Teen Pregnancy Worldwide

    16 million girls ages 15-19 give birth each year
    Global birthrate among 15-19 year old girls is 49 in 1,000
    Complications of pregnancy is the 2nd highest cause of death in 15-19 year old girls
    3 million 15-19 year old girls have unsafe abortions every year
    The U.S. has twice the teen pregnancy rate as Canada
    Both Germany and France have a teen pregnancy rate that is four times lower than the U.S.
    Japan’s teen pregnancy rate is eight times lower the United States

Costs of Teen Pregnancy: Social, Economical, and Educational

    $9.4 billion tax dollars were spent on teen pregnancy and childbirth in 2010
    Only 50% of teen mothers age 15-19 earn a high school diploma
    Only 38% of teen mothers age 15-17 earn a high school diploma
    By age 30, only 1.5 percent of women who had pregnancies as a teenager have a college degree
    80 percent of unmarried teen mothers end up on welfare
    50% of teen mother’s go on welfare within the first year
    The daughters of teen mothers are 22 percent more likely than their peers to become teen mothers
    Sons of teenage mothers have a 13 percent greater chance of ending up in prison as compared to their peers

This isn't just about a sick social more in the USA, screwing with body freedom. It is a cause of something that is ruining, or at the least limiting, millions of lives and costing the government billions and causing major social and political problems.

There is a section about how the internet self censorship, the exact same thing that killed TSNS website, is USA industry born and effecting the entire world in a highly negative manner.

http://www.bn.org.uk/community/ccs_files/campaigns/ChildrenDeserveBetter_2016.pdf

umm, ummm, umm! :o
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 15, 2016, 07:47:13 AM
JohnP, it did what it should have done. It stuck in you mind after all these years.

Jbee, there is so much more to the teen pregnancy issue than merely nudity issues. An entire culture here that emphasizes self-worth and self-image based on appearance and the opinions of others.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 15, 2016, 09:26:38 AM
Yea Eyesup, we're the antidote.

The paper showed a way big correlation that can't be ignored. It is a major significance, but yes there are other bits that contribute. For example, there is an entire cultural segment and expectation with peers in part of US society that gets kids pregnant, but that body issue statistical correlation just can't be ignored. Other related issues would fall like a house of cards, obviously depleting the rates of pregnancy, if we all were body free and exposed to nude people throughout life. If we just educated youth bodies could....One in four could be reduced to a fifth of that.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 15, 2016, 10:56:33 AM
I hate to be cynical about the idea that naturism is good for people in every possible way(!!) but I have to wonder about cause and effect. Maybe the same factors that make people interested in naturism also help to produce well-adjusted children. It makes me think of what George Orwell wrote about trying to call a socialist meeting in England in the 1930s (I may have added some capital letters):

"One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words 'Socialism' and 'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, NUDIST, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature Cure' quack, pacifist, and feminist in England."

With parents who follow every progressive cause, how could children not grow up wise beyond their years?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 15, 2016, 03:16:25 PM
I sat down and read the paper, contemplated it, dug a little deeper on some of the points made and the figures given. It is a kinda boorish intellectual language, maybe tedious, BUT choir, it does provide a good argument. It relies heavily on teen pregnancy rates evidence, but dose that well.

Jbee


Somehow we have been convinced that "teen pregnancy" is wrong or bad.   Teen pregnancy is mother nature's plan.  If you look at the data the lowest rates of so-called "teen pregnancy" come from liberal white women who are non-breeding their race out of existence.  That too is the liberal goal. 

The highest rate of "teen pregnancy" in the US was in 1957, only nobody called it "teen pregnancy" or thought it bad in 1957.  In 1957 they only worried about "unwed mothers."   In 1957 way over 95% of pregnant women were happily married and getting on with their lives as mothers. 

Biologically women are ready and able to be mothers about age 14 and their strongest or best time to be bearing children is about age 16 to 18 during the so-called "teen" years.   

I'm not going on because this is getting political in response to political. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 15, 2016, 05:18:40 PM
Agreed, Bob!

Jbee is right and you are also right.
And that discussion belongs on a forum more appropriate to that subject.

Most of us here believe that if there were more of what we discuss here there would be less of what would be discussed on that "more appropriate" forum.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 15, 2016, 07:12:50 PM
I like Bob's point. Rock star Jerry Lee Louis got grand grief in his career at  that time, but was it because of her age, or more because she was his cousin? Elvis had a young proper girlfriend, too young they said, but a proper courtship and marriage. All before birth control and the sexual revolution. Maybe that had something to do with the change to an arbitrary 18 years.

The 18 year thing in law plagues naturist. There are judgement deficiencies as a natural development issue in teenagers, but they are not completely stupid helpless children. The paper mentions that proper naturist value upbringing will help them determine better judgement. How is it that the sight of a nude body will tear up a young soul under eighteen, and within 24 hours, they can handle it, the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony? How is it that one teenager can handle it at 14 and anther still is alarmed at 18?

When parents think, discuss, and educate their children and starting early, they do better and make better judgement calls. Yes, perhaps naturist parents are more attentive. The way the deck is stacked the child rearing years are often not a time that one can be practicing naturism. The kids grow up and the nest goes with the clothes, the nude living and experimentation are done beforehand. During the years with the kids, grandparents are closer, families bond, school officials are meddling, the education system demands conformity, peer pressure from the outside, job takes away quality time, bodies of children are doing weird uncomfortable things before long, or not soon enough, etc.

I won't list the reasons that I think teen pregnancy and teen marriage is a crappy idea in most of this current world, or during my lifetime, but yea, there was a time and there are some biological perspective arguments.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 18, 2016, 10:40:28 AM
Harking back to our Welsh hillside naked rambler, he's answered his critics:

http://nakedrambler.org/

A mystery Naked Rambler writing under the pseudonym ‘Machenman’ has spoken out after criticism of his nude run by fellow walkers on Machen Mountain made headlines in the South Wales Argus newspaper.
Quote
The man, known only as Chris, replied; “If I wanted to expose myself in public, I wouldn't be walking there at 6 am. I genuinely did not expect anyone else to be there. I enjoy doing what is a very natural activity, which is much more common in some other countries, and do not want to upset people. To put it in context - on two occasions while walking on the mountain I saw a couple of walkers and turned to go a different way to avoid close contact. The next time, I tried out an alternative route from further along the mountain in order to avoid them, but the first part was on a road, when I saw a couple of walkers coming towards me, not aware they may have been the same ones as before. On this occasion as I could not avoid passing, I did partly cover myself and both walkers passed looking directly ahead.”

In an apology online to the passing walker and his wife, Machenman said; “If your partner was upset, I am sorry, but as you said nothing, I was not aware I was causing any upset. And after all, no-one made you look, and all I did was walk past you.“

The nude article by Argus staff reporter Alice Rose received well over 70 colourful replies in the comments section, notably enhanced by the concerned walkers themselves. Surprisingly, the majority of  the views put forward by the public on this occasion seemed to have been in favour of the phantom Naked Rambler and in one comment, ITV Wales was said to be interested in doing a follow-up interview on the Machen Mountain incident.

peter

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 18, 2016, 11:23:32 AM
That's great!

One notes what might be another call for Dr Freud:
"Phantom Naked Rambler Bares All on Nude Decent".
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 18, 2016, 07:52:17 PM
So, Peter, is this latest post by you about the same guy in this post (http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/index.php?topic=663.270) from earlier in May? As I am unfamiliar with the geography of your area I wouldn't know if the two places are close together.

Also, in the photo on the Naked Rambler site, if you click on it and go to the full frame picture, you can see what appears to be another hiker about halfway up the hill. Is that a person or some other artifact?

Reading through some of the comments on the article gives the impression that some of those responding have more pressing personal issues than witnessing a naked person. The majority of them seem to be ok with someone on a naked ramble, others though don't seem to be anyone I would want to be stuck sitting by on an airplane.  :D

I wasn't aware that there was a website devoted to The Naked Rambler. Is that about Mr. Gough or just anyone that takes it in their head to go rambling naked?

Duane

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 19, 2016, 04:10:37 PM
I think the nakedrambler website was started to be about SG specifically, but as he's gone quiet and others have appeared in the press it seems to have widened it's scope a bit - if you look at past issues it highlighted the Scottish naked ramblers' outing a few months back, for instance.

The Welsh naked rambler in this piece is indeed the one reported earlier - this was his response to the South Wales Argus report (don't know where the response first appeared, but I don't think it was in the Argus), and of course since then we've also had the Bolton Naked Rambler reported as well. I think SG's "Naked Rambler" tag has become newspapers' easy headline for anyone spotted, or better still photographed, naked outside an urban area (in the UK you're only a "rambler" if you walk in the countryside).

Judging by the posts on other forums there's a lot of naked people strolling around out on the hills and in the woods. It's almost surprising there aren't more such sightings, but I know from my own experience that despite our appearance as a crowded little island, most people in Britain stay in town and, if they leave it, never move more than 50 yards from where they've parked their car.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 19, 2016, 08:25:50 PM
Quote from: Peter
Judging by the posts on other forums there's a lot of naked people strolling around out on the hills and in the woods. It's almost surprising there aren't more such sightings . .

In one way this could be seen as a good thing. If there are in fact many people oot'n'boot naked, yet you've only spotted 2 reports, that would imply there are many more that no one seems to think important enough to call in the gendarmes. If this is true it means naked ramblers on average are seen more as harmless than not.

Quote
. . . but I know from my own experience that despite our appearance as a crowded little island, most people in Britain stay in town and, if they leave it, never move more than 50 yards from where they've parked their car.

This is not unique to Britain. I've been in parks and remote sites and witnessed such behavior.

I was once in a climbing area with friends. It was warmish, not so hot we thought it necessary to leave for cooler climes. We were up on a cliff practicing rappelling and saw a car, with fully surround tinted windows, pull into the parking area. A person leapt out of the vehicle video camera in hand, aimed it and did about a 180 deg. sweep of the area, jumped back in and off they zoomed.

High speed panoramas of parking lots, we assumed was his hobby. Weird!

In high traffic areas people climb out, walk around looking at the signage for that site, then leave and on to the next. I realize here in a tourist intense area this is normal for those with very little time. But I have seen others that most definitely were not in rental cars do the same thing.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 28, 2016, 05:18:13 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36643725

Here's a government pronouncement we could all get behind!

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on June 28, 2016, 05:21:57 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-36652208

A case with echoes of the issues Steve Gough faced with the Scottish legal system. The English laws on nudity have the test of "causing alarm or distress" as to whether it's legal or not; a similar degree of finesse seems to be present in this case north of the border.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 28, 2016, 08:27:07 PM
Causing alarm or distress, sexual act, breach of peace. With so many different offenses lined up for use against a single act, it's a small wonder anything gets done at all. You can't move any direction without irritating someone somewhere.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on July 01, 2016, 10:07:10 AM
More on drones:

http://www.thelocal.ch/20160629/drone-shocks-nudists-at-swiss-waterpark

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on July 03, 2016, 11:03:11 PM
Dear me!  Drones are a peeping tom's dream it would seem!
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on July 04, 2016, 11:35:28 AM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/naked-rambler-takes-fight-to-europe-fncrb0s7t

Reported in The Times today - it's behind a pay wall so we only get the first couple of paragraphs but it seems SG is still interested in his freedom campaign.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 04, 2016, 09:06:17 PM
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/7207449/Let-me-roam-nude-Naked-Rambler-takes-fight-to-European-Court-of-Human-Rights.html

This gives a slightly more complete picture...slightly.
Then there is this, which shows his status in this European Court as to a 2014 ruling against his complaint. He lost that one, this new one is somewhat different. The old one got shut down because he knew the consequence of each offense and they merely accumulated in Scotland. This one is about ABSCO.

press release - HUDOC

hudoc.echr.coe.int/app/conversion/pdf/?library=ECHR&a... Proxy  Highlight

Oct 28, 2014 ... 49327/11) the European Court of Human Rights held, unanimously, that ... The applicant, Stephen Peter Gough, is a British national who was ...
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: reubenT on July 05, 2016, 05:14:02 AM
I have heard the percentage of people who leave their cars more than a few hundred ft is very low.   I've been with people who were not comfortable getting very far from comfort.    But when alone or with someone who likes to get off the beaten trails,  we go places,   explore the wild regions that get few visitors.     Then there are a few who try to go beyond their ability.   I was called on once to join a rescue crew at our closest state park.   Some woman who was ill prepared physically and mentally, tried (with company)   to do some rough creek rock scrambling in the rough canyon below the waterfalls.  They missed the creek they were going to go up to meet a trail,   then she broke or seriously strained her ankle.    Being kind of overweight it was a heavy bed to carry out.  A whole crew was needed because it was too rough to walk with it.  Just had to form a double line and pass the stretcher down the line, with the tail people scrambling around to continue the line in front.    I was thinking what I would do if caught in such a situation.   First I wouldn't have missed the creek. But if I had the broken ankle and had to get out.   I'd cut me a strong stick and use my arms instead of the lame foot.  Might take some time but I'd get myself out.    Reminds me of the account I read of an airplane crash in the rockies.   A couple people died,  the others seriously injured, one had a broken foot.   They waited awhile hoping rescue would find them.  But when it went on too long and no sign of anyone looking,  they decided they had to find their way out.   So the man with the broken foot being the best able to move,   headed out.  He traveled some miles through canyons and over mountains till he came to a road.   waved down a vehicle and got help for the others.   It took some sheer determination to travel so far in extreme pain, having to walk on a broken foot.     There's still some who will push on no matter how hard the going gets,  when life is on the line.    But we're talkin naked wilderness wandering.   Few people out there,  the opportunity for naked rambling is good.  Go prepared physically and mentally and it's a wonderful experience. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 05, 2016, 07:09:33 PM
Quote from: nuduke
Dear me!  Drones are a peeping tom's dream it would seem!

I have a friend that works for a company that is developing drone technology for commercial use. He told me that private use of a drone to photograph residential property is illegal in Nevada. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but if you catch them out, you can press charges.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 05, 2016, 07:25:00 PM
Quote from: Reuben
I have heard the percentage of people who leave their cars more than a few hundred ft is very low.   I've been with people who were not comfortable getting very far from comfort.   . . . .  Few people out there,  the opportunity for naked rambling is good.  Go prepared physically and mentally and it's a wonderful experience.

It really depends on how accessible the site is to the average person. If it is set up to be easily accessed, you will see inexperienced people doing this. If you have to put forth real effort, not so much.

My wife and I have seen on more than one occasion unprepared hikers on a trail. Generally we don't comment. They're adults. We were hiking in Lamoille Canyon once and were hiking back out to our car when we bumped into a mom with two grade school aged kids.

She was wearing a bikini with a t-shirt and her kids had their swimsuits on. They were all wearing flip-flops. She asked us about one of the lakes we had visited on our hike and we stopped and told her how far and difficult the trail was. It was getting on towards 5:00pm and the sun was about to drop below the mountains. Even in the summer it can get chilly in the mountains after sunset, plus they had no backpacks or flashlights.

We also saw no water bottles of any kind. We explained that hiking switchbacks in lowlight, no warm clothing and no water was a bad idea. She said "Oh, yeah. Ok." We gave her a couple of water bottles and said to be careful and off they went.

Amazing! She wasn't the 1st or the last.

Duane
Title: Naked Women Protest (?) at Republican Convention.
Post by: Bob Knows on July 18, 2016, 06:50:15 PM
100 Naked Women Just Greeted Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention

An exclusive, behind-the-scenes look at Spencer Tunick's ​"Everything She Says Means Everything."
As the sun rises Sunday morning over the Quicken Loans Arena in downtown Cleveland, 100 women stand completely nude, holding large, round mirrors facing the arena. They're on an empty lot in between a fire station and a shipping warehouse, right on the Cuyahoga River. It's the day before the Republican National Convention kicks off, but on this side of the river, it's nearly silent, except for the snaps and pops of a camera.

Artist Spencer Tunick stands on a ladder holding the camera focused on the women, wiping sweat off his brow. He shouts, "We love you all! This is beautiful," as he takes photos for his art installation, "Everything She Says Means Everything."

http://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a37853/100-naked-women-republican-national-convention/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=578c40cd04d301727d14b08c&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 18, 2016, 09:32:00 PM
 Some are here to send a message to Donald Trump and {{{others just wanted to take the opportunity to proudly show their bodies publicly.}}}}

Now then, that's a healthy message!
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 19, 2016, 04:32:02 PM
I liked the reactions of the response community.

The 1st car comes up with 4 cops and as soon as they determine they are staying put, they take off.
The firemen show up at the fence drinking their early morning coffee. They chat, sip, take a few pics. No big deal.

Quote
Before packing up, Tunick walks to the road where a row of photographers, cops, firemen and paramedics have lined up to watch. A man in a Cleveland Fire uniform shakes his hand and says: "It happened nice and calm and peaceful. Thank you." A paramedic tells Tunick, "I look forward to seeing it."

This kind of calm, rational reaction to a large group of naked people, that happened to be all women, minding their own business is a good sign. I hope this is a step forward and not just a typical reaction because of the convention that is there.

Protests don't have to be loud and annoying. It's the loud ones that get the most attention. From everyone. Including law enforcement. This kind of peaceful statement is perfect.

I also like Tunick's choice to use random women volunteers. A real cross section.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 28, 2016, 06:42:21 AM
Muslims attack German swimmers.  Threaten to kill naked women. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3710274/Gang-Muslims-storm-nudist-pool-Germany-yelling-Allahu-Akbar-threatening-exterminate-women-sluts.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 28, 2016, 04:00:23 PM
I am speechless!  A breathtaking display of ignorance on so many fronts.

Not familiarizing yourself with the country you are visiting or moving to can get you in all sorts of hot water.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: MartinM on July 29, 2016, 09:10:37 AM
Or cold water, in which 20 of them have drowned.

We are talking about refugees here, not tourists or conventional migrants. They are escaping repressive countries and have little knowledge outside their own communities. It seems to me that all such refugees ought to have a short but intensive induction into the culture of the country that is offering them protection. It would avoid a lot of cultural misunderstanding and outright crime (albeit, largely from ignorance) and give less ammunition to the far right which thrives on fear from such incidents.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 29, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
A worthy goal.

One that is achievable if there is a willingness to accept that a new land means a new life, not a continuation of the old.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on July 30, 2016, 01:57:04 PM
trouble we arnt living in a perfect world

the sheer volume of people being dumped in unprepared communities means that the newcomers clump together, the perception is most of them arnt family groups theres a big percentage of unaccompanied males who have left their families behind.   throughout europe in recent years large influxes of immigrants have tended to keep together in their own little enclaves showing little desire to integrate into existing indiginous communities. some have been here for years and show little signs of learning to speak their new countries language.

its also apparent that there is a desire among sections of the muslim community in particular to impose muslim culture and even laws on the countries they are going to , indeed its been stated by muslim groups  that spain is the first target for conversion from cristianity to muslim.

theres a very real concern in western europe that things are going to get worse in the short term , there is a real fear that  it wont take many more incidents to spark off a backlash
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 30, 2016, 06:53:42 PM
The segregating of ethnic and cultural groups into separate enclaves is not new. Whether forced, by the government or voluntarily by the groups, that practice has been around for thousands of years.

What is surprising and worrisome, is that it is occurring in modern times. With the ability to study and understand past events, the fact that they are still forming is disheartening. It is a perfect display of the validity of the old adage of repeating unobserved or unstudied histories.

Duane
Title: California Nude Activist gets media story
Post by: Bob Knows on July 30, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
'We got skin, you got skin, love your body, ain't no sin': Meet the NUDE activist who regularly gets naked in public and marches against anti-nudity laws to 'free' others

    Gypsy Taub, from Berkeley, California, marches in support of nudity
    The mother and nude activist said she used to be frightened of being naked in public
    Now she regularly attends naked protests and has been arrested while nude numerous times
    She marched through San Francisco to the City Hall in protest against the city's anti-nudity rules


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3690935/We-got-skin-got-skin-love-body-ain-t-no-sin-Meet-NUDE-activist-regularly-gets-naked-public-marches-against-anti-nudity-laws-free-others.html#ixzz4FuexrFBx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 01, 2016, 08:53:48 AM
Taub was with a performance art group in Berkley which did a lot of public nude events. And this was before she protested with Martinez at UC Berkley in the 80's. Bless her.

As for those intolerant Muslim people threatening nudes. These people come from intolerant cultures. They are in the wrong place. We have been slowly gaining body freedom from intolerant people of other religions, for years. Just when they begin to loose their grip on us and we make progress, more of these intolerant people are imported. I think that anybody who threatens people in a host country creating disturbance needs to be thrown out of that country. If me, or my loved ones were threatened like that, there would be radical action taken against them. I find those behaviors unacceptably wrong. We would be deported or imprisoned going into their old countries for that. Yup, I've got no tolerance for the intolerant, an eye for an eye. Second amendment might be the first lesson to teach them, immediately, in a most personal way. Shoving religion at anyone forcibly... That article got my ire.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 01, 2016, 09:37:32 AM
in the uk it appears that immigrants from anywhere have "human rights"  enshrined by eu dictat enforced rigorously by a vastly out of touch court system headed by senile judges and human rights lawyers grossly overpaid by the legal aid system.  where else would a convicted terrorist get a free house and spending money provided by the taxpayers theyve been trying to kill.

we need politicians with the balls to say "integrate or go back where you came from" 

whoops im now in danger of being branded a racist by those who dont even know the difference between race and nationality

in short were in a right mess
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 01, 2016, 07:26:41 PM
Well, it's good to know that with all the major problems in the world that the news editors (creators) are on the job. They have protected the tender eyeballs of everyone by blurring out butts and boobs in a photograph.

I thought that news organizations were supposed to be at the forefront of the protection of the freedoms we have been guaranteed. We certainly see plenty of blood, gore and guts with out benefit of censure.

If they are so worried about our delicate sensibilities, why is mayhem and death less of a concern than a natural human body?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 12, 2016, 10:47:42 PM
I saw this news from London Zoo.   Get naked for Tigers.  Thought you guys may be interested.   

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/london-zoo-hosts-naked-fundraising-event-streak-for-tigers-graphic-pictures_uk_57ada386e4b0f475601bc179
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 15, 2016, 07:21:04 PM
Didn't they do this before? I don't remember if it was for tigers, but I seem to recall a previous event for animal awareness at the London Zoo.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 17, 2016, 06:24:33 AM
I think this it's third or fourth year, it's become an annual event and always for tigers. I'm not clear on the link between tigers and nakedness, but what the heck!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 17, 2016, 01:49:51 PM
I'm not clear on the link between tigers and nakedness, but what the heck!

Indeed.  The more often naked is seen in public, the more common it becomes to be naked and the less "offended" the public becomes. 

Naked is used in this event because it gets more media attention.  When naked becomes common it will not garner so much attention and they will try something else to support tigers.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: milfmog on August 17, 2016, 02:37:58 PM
I'm not clear on the link between tigers and nakedness, but what the heck!
I don't believe that there is a serious link. It was just that someone noticed that the collective noun for tigers is a streak and thought "Hey, we could market that!"

Of course there is another link; tigers prefer not to have to peel their food so naked people are a better diet for them :D

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 17, 2016, 06:20:53 PM
Bob is right. What works the best, is used the most. In PR it's all about the bottom line.

So, Ian, since tigers have that preference, the intent of the fundraiser would be to "not be a'peeling?"

That's contrary to a naturist outlook, which is to be a'peeling whenever possible.  ;)

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 26, 2016, 07:19:59 PM
There is Burkini controversy in Southern France. This showed up in the headlines:
French Court Overturns Ban on Burkinis
August 26, 2016
Headlines

France’s highest administrative court has overturned a local ban on full-body swimsuits known as "burkinis," amid ongoing controversy over an incident in which armed French police confronted a woman on the beach over her full-body dress. Photos of the incident show two armed police officers approaching the woman as she lay sleeping, and then standing over her as she removed her long-sleeve shirt. The police then gave her a ticket, which said that she wasn’t wearing "an outfit respecting good morals and secularism." More than two dozen French towns have banned the burkini, saying the swimsuit violates French secular laws. On Thursday, dozens of women protested the burkini ban at a rally outside the French Embassy in London. This is one of the protesters.

    India Thorogood: "It’s never right to tell a woman what she can wear or to take her clothes off. That’s not for a man to say. And I think, in a time of increased Islamophobia, which we’ve seen in the U.K. and in France, it’s just an even more horrible image to see, because it just shows the kind of things that Muslim women have to deal with. So we wanted to show solidarity with Muslim women in France and call for a repeal of the ban."

AT: http://www.democracynow.org/2016/8/26/headlines/french_court_overturns_ban_on_burkinis

It doesn't explicitly tell us that they are defending nudity, nor emphasis on it, but that seems to be what she and the courts are saying. They both seem to have a "man" telling them chip on their shoulders.

Any better information on this in the European press? The Gardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/25/frances-burkini-ban-row-divides-government-court-mulls-legality

So, if it is protected for a man to walk down the street with his women walking behind dressed in burkas, then is it protected to appear freely undressed? Here we are 100 years later, another wave of Victorian-like disease, against body freedom, this time with these women's groups in the mix....
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 26, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
If someone wants to go out in public dressed or not however they please, there shouldn't be anyone bothering them with laws regarding the morality of clothing.

If someone wants to do their errands wrapped in a blanket, so what. If another wants to do the same with only a speedo or nothing at all, the law needs to stay out of it.

I can see why some are fearful of different customs being thrust on them. But banning cultural behavior is a two edged sword and can hurt as much as help. Adhering to a religious requirement is fine if it's voluntary. VOLUNTARY
 
Once a group starts forcing dress codes, that's a whole 'nuther bolt of cloth.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 26, 2016, 10:15:33 PM
I understand that a French higher court has ruled the burkini ban to be unconstitutional.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 27, 2016, 07:11:30 AM
Yea JOhn, That's what the Democracy Now article was about, the high court knocking down the dress code. The Guardian things told me that other similar bans had been deemed unconstitutional, but the local politicians still did this and then sent five or six armed men in menacing black uniforms, demanding that...well, to me that is rape from where she is coming from.

Yea, Eyesup. I think that it comes down to intolerance, which is a bad thing no matter where it comes from. There is law which impartially remains secular, but then this makes secularism like an enforced state religion...goofed up.

I suppose that Muslims will be harassed there in other ways, in spite of court rulings. They are just not wanted. People were cheering the police action.  I'm sure that the politicians heard that one. I suppose that what comes around, goes around.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 27, 2016, 07:26:35 AM
On the one hand, freedom to dress - or not - as one sees fit. On the other, a section of French society standing up for what it perceives to be its own culture in the face of threats from an invasive and opposing culture, and having chosen an item of clothing as the weapon in this instance. I can see their point but feel they've chosen the wrong battle in this instance.

Peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: atourist on August 27, 2016, 09:42:29 AM
On the one hand, freedom to dress - or not - as one sees fit. On the other, a section of French society standing up for what it perceives to be its own culture in the face of threats from an invasive and opposing culture, and having chosen an item of clothing as the weapon in this instance. I can see their point but feel they've chosen the wrong battle in this instance.

Peter
The 'burkini' controversy is far more complex than just being a question of culture, but the perceived (ie, mistaken) 'threat' to national culture is certainly an element.

I always think that when people start worrying about their culture being 'threatened' they must be worried that it is too weak to naturally survive outside influences. If it was that weak, it wouldn't be worth preserving, and the best thing would be to put it out of its misery. More likely: the person who feels his culture is under threat doesn't understand what his or her culture really is.

It's a bit like certain British people clinging to the pound, red telephone boxes and London buses when our culture is actually about far more substantial things like freedom of speech, the NHS, Shakespeare and (topically) the shining example of Team GB at the Olympics, to give just a few out of many examples. And - dare I say it? - multiculturalism is another of Britain's major cultural assets. All these things are branches of an oak tree that is not threatened by anything growing underneath it, whether it is weeds or flowers.

If the French really thought about it - and I'm sure millions of them do - a burkini on a beach is a miniscule threat to a Frenchness that is defined by much more important things, from the French Revolution downwards.

As naturists we should understand that (like taking our clothes off in public) putting clothes on on a beach creates some issues, but none of them are any threat to anybody's true culture or way of life.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 27, 2016, 03:49:11 PM
I think this picture (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14100480_907998289305273_8960851114057651016_n.jpg?oh=4b0ac59328fc18b8e4498f874e712196&oe=5855A7CB) which I first saw on Facebook a few days back summarises the situation beautifully.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 27, 2016, 06:07:13 PM
Anyone who thinks this is only about swimming attire is missing the entire thing. This is a hostile invasion of France and other countries.   Shame on the French Court. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 27, 2016, 06:20:24 PM
On the one hand, freedom to dress - or not - as one sees fit. On the other, a section of French society standing up for what it perceives to be its own culture in the face of threats from an invasive and opposing culture, and having chosen an item of clothing as the weapon in this instance. I can see their point but feel they've chosen the wrong battle in this instance.

Peter
A few fundamentalist got in the French faces, and actually did threaten to destroy their culture replacing it with intolerance, etc. Some of that, in Nice was akin to 911. There will always be a reciprocal reaction. All across this country for months and years, it was scary to voice anti-war sentiment, the constitution was attacked from fear. Freedom and constitutional protections slipped down several notches. The different were targeted. Everywhere there were these pickup trucks driving around with flags flying on them as an example of the extremes.

Much the same must be happening in France. It is not just a get off my back empire attack there, but we want to impose a different law attack. Along with the freedom to be different being oppressed, there is a tendency to clamor to the fundamental ideals of the dominate culture. It gets more extreme and people have to consider and define where they stand. Some conform easily, as they never have given much deeper thought to these matters. Others push to extremes. So, generally as a reciprocal reaction, we may see more body freedom, more acceptance of nudity, even as a national cultural pride.
 
But this “might” happens, as the framework which protects the French from a world of police state falls apart and people cling to those fascist who they believe can protect them from something that they irrationally fear, a something that is entirely uncommon, a terrifying act. Fear makes anger, anger breeds anger, punching out into the darkness, it reciprocates over and over, leading to war. The French have lost much more than lives. Like Americans, they are succumbing to a tried and true revolutionary tool.

This atmosphere can take a different course for body freedom. Another weirdness that I observed at that time, was that this atmosphere of anger, fear and intolerant coercion can inflame other issues. The example, at that time early in the century, was a secular ruling by the Supreme Court. The Christian right wing began acting like the Taliban. I remember my friends at work getting just plain nasty and I stayed out of the lunch room. A rightwing issue like anti-nudity can be inflamed in the atmosphere, latched onto and used. Right now, most people are united against their common foe, but what happens when they go to define themselves in an intolerant atmosphere and intolerant attitudes?

 If things calm down, at least somewhat and tourist dollars are an influence, I suppose that the French Riviera will continue to be as it is. Are these locals or are they tourists on the beach cheering on the police action? Were they really thinking, or just angry at a symbol, as them against us, black hat and white hat mentality taking over? What percentage actually cheered? Is it a stumbling politician attempting to maintain the peaceful status quo and economy, knowing that now he is looked upon as the protector, when there is little that he can actually do? Is it all a show, just something to make him look good, or a rally point?

Is it just attempting to get something offensive, to those that would react, off of the beach to keep the peace, order and save against the economic hit and bad press? My son is wandering off to Europe for the next couple of weeks. I actually had to stop and think, "Is that safe?" Lots of people just knee jerk and get scared off, "Nice has bombs, riots, radical muslims everywhere, it must be a bad place to vacation."

Jus' thinkin',
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 27, 2016, 08:16:27 PM
Anyone who thinks this is only about swimming attire is missing the entire thing. This is a hostile invasion of France and other countries.   Shame on the French Court.
In practice, the vast majority of Muslims in France date from before Algeria achieved independence in the 1960's. Up to then Algeria was effectively an integral part of France just as metropolitan France is now.
There was also a large number of non-Muslim French in Algeria up to this date when the vast majority of "pieds noirs" also fled to France. Algerian and Muslim restaurants and their traditional dished are a significant part of ordinary French cuisine.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 28, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
jbee dont be overly worried , ive just got back from the airport , daughter is off to utrecht uni {holand} to do a 2 year masters degree,  the normal worries of city life , alcholol and other substances far outweigh the tiny risk of a terrorist related incident.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 28, 2016, 01:59:34 PM
jbee dont be overly worried , ive just got back from the airport , daughter is off to utrecht uni {holand} to do a 2 year masters degree,  the normal worries of city life , alcholol and other substances far outweigh the tiny risk of a terrorist related incident.
Not exactly the same thing but in the last year 20 people died on Turkish roads for every one killed in a terrorist incident.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on August 28, 2016, 02:48:01 PM
Everyday my Facebook feed is filled with half Muslim terror posts and half pro Muslim peace posts. Most of these edicts from those mayors are nothing more than taking advantage of fear for political gain. Not that there isn't a threat, just as JohnGw pointed out, there are more deaths from auto accidents that terrorist attacks.

I often wondered, as burka clad women sat on the beach in Florida, are they condemning me to hell for wearing what almost amounts as next to nothing? There was the one incident where a young girl asked her mother "Where is your bathing suit?'. After being exposed to the beach and others scantily clad how do their parents explain once you reach a certain age you must cover also. There has to be a culture shock on both sides; however how can one come to the west and expect we change our culture to fit their beliefs? Or, will they try to impose their values on us?

Bottom line to me is if you wish to wear a full body covering to the beach so be it but on the same hand don't expect me to cover up for your sake. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 28, 2016, 07:05:34 PM
Everyday my Facebook feed is filled with half Muslim terror posts and half pro Muslim peace posts. Most of these edicts from those mayors are nothing more than taking advantage of fear for political gain. Not that there isn't a threat, just as JohnGw pointed out, there are more deaths from auto accidents that terrorist attacks.

I often wondered, as burka clad women sat on the beach in Florida, are they condemning me to hell for wearing what almost amounts as next to nothing? There was the one incident where a young girl asked her mother "Where is your bathing suit?'. After being exposed to the beach and others scantily clad how do their parents explain once you reach a certain age you must cover also. There has to be a culture shock on both sides; however how can one come to the west and expect we change our culture to fit their beliefs? Or, will they try to impose their values on us?

Bottom line to me is if you wish to wear a full body covering to the beach so be it but on the same hand don't expect me to cover up for your sake.
These burkinis are not much different, maybe more clingy than the early swimwear going back to past 100 years ago. There was a liberalization of women being seen as too frail to swim (whenever that silliness began). Slowly, more skin was revealed. The culture changed, but we are still being influenced by the proper Victorian dress code and social oppression. It should be "don't expect me to cover up for your sake," but liberation isn't complete. I DO see that the body freedom should not end on the sand of the beach. Good for the beach, good elsewhere.

You can bet that these muslims are looking down their noses at us and others, just like the intolerant who would call us heathen, crude, uncultured, damned and with all disdain. Who needs that vibe? Those that immigrate, come from intolerant and proud societies. They can't know different. Those that have been around western culture tolerate it, but it is wrong damnable behavior, and they don't want their children to see it. It is just like our fundamentalist nemesis who have lived here for generations acting like some kind of christian taliban, wanting to take over with impositions of law and power.

When these oppressive intolerant fundamentalist are outwardly attacking My freedoms, then I will be defensive. It is difficult to be tolerant when someone is stepping on my toes. The key word is tolerant. The key issue is religious freedom for everybody.

On the other hand, I see a woman covered up and walking behind a man, being essentially owned, and to me that is abuse. I also see that attitude about other human beings as the guy's potential to have him try that crap on me. Am I being intolerant, or defending my sisters freedom? I was required to isolate a young immigrant girl from boys in my classroom as a religious/cultural  accommodation. I had to rearrange the desks and place girls in desks between her and any males. It was very disruptive, taught segregation, and railroaded the girl, cheated her, when my job and mission was to teach her to think. Choice isn't choice unless there is a full complement of information to make that choice. It took a long time to get rid of separate classrooms and schools, to make for equality. That isn't religion, its defacto slavery. Is the woman in a burkini really making a clear choice to dress as such? Some have choice, like most Black Muslims and a couple of people who have been close to me. Too many do not get choice.

Perhaps I should spell naturist with a Capital "N" and comport myself nude. My behavior is every bit as justified as these religions. Perhaps, I should get accommodations and protections, too.

Were those people on the beach defending equality and liberty, or what they perceive as their culture? Or both?

About politicians using fear. When I look at it, I have about as much chance of being killed in a terrorist attack, as I do of hitting the lottery on a given day. Over 300 million people and most are not in a target area. How's my math? What are the odds that my naked body would actually do harm to another?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 29, 2016, 09:33:59 PM
. . banning cultural behavior is a two edged sword and can hurt as much as help. Adhering to a religious requirement is fine if it's voluntary.

Where I posted this still applies after all this. When you ban that clothing, who's to say what gets banned next. Maybe something you value. There's the two edged sword.

If the courts want to say you cannot ban clothing, they must also eventually state that one group cannot require another to yield their rights in order to facilitate the protection of another.

You have to treat all equally. If the courts eventually rule that one group gets protection for itself from another in order to preserve it, then I agree with Bob. Shame on any parliament, congress or other political body that caves into political correctness.

That would be the de facto surrender by the system.

If you come to a free country and you want to force your family members to follow the old customs, that's fine if they agree to. Once they attain legal age and they choose to go off on their own, that is also fine. No one should not be allowed to treat anyone as chattel.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 31, 2016, 12:37:43 PM
http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/08/naked-man-crashes-senior-picture-photo-shoot.html

All good fun. Welcome to Oregon
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2016, 02:55:18 PM
 Eugene is one of he few towns in Oregon where nudity is illegal.   I guess Eugene people ignore the local ordinance.   Good for the man and  his dog.

When we go outside naked there always may be someone taking photos. Its all good. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on August 31, 2016, 04:05:17 PM
Rather than "naked-man-crashes-senior-picture-photo-shoot" I think it should be "Overdressed teenager disturbs man's peaceful swim with his dog".

She says she knows that it's a popular swimming spot, so if she wants to take pretentious pseudo-artful pictures, she should expect to get her images cluttered up with people who genuinely want to swim.

Regarding the legality of the situation, the text says "near her hometown in Eugene" so maybe it was actually outside the city limits.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on August 31, 2016, 04:33:05 PM
Ok, there was a naked guy playing with his dog in the river while someone was doing a photo shoot. Was he photo bombing them? I doubt it and you can't tell me with all the river pictures could not be taken without having the guy in them or cropping him out? If nudity is legal why the fuss? except to sell papers and make an issue of it.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 31, 2016, 04:51:51 PM
If that's "classic Eugene", then why post a picture?

If she thought it was normal why the comments? Do you post everyday photos of normal activities?

She was likely annoyed and did it as a response. If it were normal, just shift position and take another picture sans nude dude and move on.

She's graduating high school and wanted it to be special. With a nude guy in the background, she wouldn't have been the center of attention of the photograph.

At least she treated it with a sense of humor and didn't have an emotional breakdown.

That's a good alternate headline, JohnP!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2016, 05:40:24 PM
She says she knows that it's a popular swimming spot, so if she wants to take pretentious pseudo-artful pictures, she should expect to get her images cluttered up with people who genuinely want to swim.

That's what I was thinking.  She goes to a "popular" swimming place on a summer afternoon and is surprised that other people are at the beach?   HUH?   

Quote
Regarding the legality of the situation, the text says "near her hometown in Eugene" so maybe it was actually outside the city limits.

Actually nudity is illegal in the whole of Lane County where Eugene is located. The river beach was probably in Lane county rather than the City of Eugene.  Lane County, the City of Portland, and two small towns called Ashland and Happy Valley make nudity illegal, but the rest of the state its legal without sexual intent.
http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/06/public_nudity_in_oregon.html

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 31, 2016, 06:36:51 PM
I guess I wouldn’t have time for the 24,000 retweets, but I’d be curious as to what those reactions were. The New York Times Mag was the source on the other side of the country. I suppose that that is one even larger retweet. It stirs up the pot and sells newspapers. It also creates a situation like Bob has been advocating that the more people see of naked humanity, the more it grows in acceptability. Guy minds his own business and it grows viral and ends up in NYTimes. Perhaps this helps prove out what Bob has been saying, but also socially, for every action there can be a similar and opposite reaction. Or, what we all have been saying, that most reactions are positive, or just some kind of amused.

So, why is this teenager wearing her great grandma’s titillating swimsuit from the 1930’s and 1940’s? Oh, I see, it’s her “little black dress.” Oh, I see, you can now wear a risqué swimsuit on the street and to respectable parties. If there is a logical progression, then might her daughter be wearing a thong contraption for her senior photos? She probably has been wearing her 1960’s panty hose on the outside like other women, too.

I was lead to this article by the same page: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/08/body-image-issues-start-as-young-as-3.html
To me it is a call for more nudity and body acceptance around the home as the solution to an irresponsible media created socio-cultural flaw. It might be that even more children are eating crap that makes them fat and with very little nutritional value.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 31, 2016, 07:02:06 PM
As no one here has yet owned up to being "nude dude" perhaps Eugene, Oregon, should be the focus of a FRN recruiting drive?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 31, 2016, 07:04:06 PM
 
This woman (https://breastsarehealthy.wordpress.com/) in New Hampshire has the right approach.

In the, “Encounters...what to do?” thread,  I mentioned Breasts Are Healthy. I did so simply because I remembered the site. After logging off, I went to the site and read some of her recent posts. I recommend doing so.

In a July ’16 post titled, “There’s a lot of bare-chestedness going on! (Summer 2016)”, she writes about the slow progress that is being made for women to choose to be topless. They go around doing everyday things you see people doing all the time.

One line I enjoyed about a group in NYC was,
The Outdoor Co-Ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society has been hard at work having fun.
She has a sense of humor, a required quality when dealing with bureaucracies.

There is a comment on how co-operative the police were in Helena, Montana. A remarkable event. Police actually do deal with people in a realistic manner.

In another July ’16 post titled, “Power is not given. Power is taken. A 1,000 mile bare-chested walk”, she tells the story of a woman with breast cancer that walked barechested from Mississippi to D.C. It was a cancer awareness event. She had a double mastectomy and did the 1000 mile walk topless.

In a meeting with a church group in D.C. that had organized the cancer awareness day, some members weren’t sure why the woman from Breasts Are Healthy and her friend were attending topless. After explaining that D.C. has no law against that, they relaxed. Reasonable people react in normal reasonable manners when facts are presented in a calm and honest way. No shouting or ranting about rights and victims, just a peaceful demonstration on how men and women can be together without all the drama of a cultural or political agenda stirring things up.

A third article about New Hampshire has a few references to the truculence of police that actually believe that they can invent laws ad hoc that must be obeyed. Good cops, bad cops. Just like the rest of us there are good and bad everywhere.

This lady and her friends have learned how to deal with the uncooperative officers, but generally don’t get much push back. On one beach a group of women attempted to get a topless woman arrested and they were informed by the irritated officers that it was NOT ILLEGAL to be topless.

There is sanity amongst us.
A breath of fresh air.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 31, 2016, 07:33:54 PM
Bob wrote:
"Actually nudity is illegal in the whole of Lane County where Eugene is located. The river beach was probably in Lane county rather than the City of Eugene.  Lane County, the City of Portland, and two small towns called Ashland and Happy Valley make nudity illegal, but the rest of the state its legal without sexual intent.
http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/06/public_nudity_in_oregon.html"

Now, that IS some valuable information. Thanks Bob. We are planning a trip to Oregon and that guy has done all of the footwork for me.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2016, 08:26:56 PM

Now, that IS some valuable information. Thanks Bob. We are planning a trip to Oregon and that guy has done all of the footwork for me.
Jbee


We have actually been thinking of moving to Eugene, OR, when my wife retires. Her two daughters live there.  Eugene has a reputation for being the most "liberal" town in the state, but this anti-nude law is kind of strange.   So we are looking at Corvallis, up the road a few miles.  Glad my wife understands that going naked around home has to be legal. 

Looking at the original Twit, there are several comments by reporters from other media asking to share her photos and story also.  BuzzFeed, NY Magazine, etc.  More media for going naked. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 31, 2016, 09:05:28 PM
Yeah, thanks Bob!

My wife travels to Oregon occasionally on business and she has suggested I travel up after she finishes her business to be-bop around for a couple days.

Now I have more good reasons to say yes!  ;D
I love hiking in the desert but an opportunity to hike somewhere green(?) and wet, "What's that again?", is too good to pass up!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 01, 2016, 05:16:57 PM
My wife's job takes her all over the west. After looking at the site about getting naked in Oregon, I decided to check if there was similar info on Washington.

Nothing as good as the Oregon one but some, in the process I ran across this article about Seattle (http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Exposed-and-stark-naked-on-purpose-1111565.php) nudists.

Being too aggressive can backfire on you so it would have to done with consideration.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 01, 2016, 06:14:23 PM
Nothing as good as the Oregon one but some, in the process I ran across this article about Seattle (http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Exposed-and-stark-naked-on-purpose-1111565.php) nudists.

Being too aggressive can backfire on you so it would have to done with consideration.
Duane

Thanks for the article on Seattle.   They interviewed several managers at nudist parks that have a vested interest in prohibiting nudity anywhere except hidden nudist resorts.  Free range nudism might put them out of business.   If people could go naked at public beaches in Seattle then people would not have to pay to crowd into some hidden retreat

I think its good and I applaud the efforts of the Body Freedom group.  Nudity is actually legal in Seattle without intent to cause someone to be alarmed or affronted, same as at my location on the east side of Washington State.  It will take more public education and police education to establish what is permitted under law.  Good for the Body Freedom people. 

I see the article is dated 2003.  A lot of progress has been made since then.  Naked is a lot more accepted around Seattle and other places in Washington State. 

Bob


 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on September 01, 2016, 07:01:29 PM
I was so struck by the babe-centered view of naturism that the Oregonlive site showed that I actually made a count, until I reached 20 pictures of women and got bored with it. At that point the count was the 20 women (alone, in pairs or groups), 7 men, 6 couples or mixed groups, and 11 pictures which didn't have any nudity in them. That's pretty rough counting, because sometimes there were multiple sets of people in the images, and I went with the most prominent ones. A fair number of people were shown in more than one image. That's nudity as the textile media like to show it.

Mark Storey, who's part of the editorial team for N magazine, lives in Everett Washington, and he often writes about activities in the Northwest. His wife Kathy Blanchard is a parks manager in Seattle, and also an open-water swimmer, and she sometimes writes too.

Oregon is often mentioned as a nude-friendly state, maybe not quite as much as Vermont, but it would be hard to compare them. I suppose not many people know both places well.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 01, 2016, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: Bob
They interviewed several managers at nudist parks that have a vested interest in prohibiting nudity anywhere except hidden nudist resorts.  Free range nudism might put them out of business.

I suppose that would be like the differences among the varied kinds of camping. There's RV's, tents, bivy's all sorts for all the different interests. They would have to adapt to the changes. When we go camping we don't mind a place like KOA on occasion, but we prefer small, private or remote sites in national parks. No crowds.

I've been in camp grounds that sound like you never left your neighborhood. Very irritating. Same with the nudist facilities. People that prefer to free range would never go to a resort anyway. It's not business they would lose.

But if nudity was legal their business might pick up because of the folks that don't like roughing it. I'm sure it would balance out. Problems arise when one group tries to guarantee a business model through legislation. Also irritating.

JohnP, I also noticed the prevalence of young women. I guess you can't get away from the advertising. Young, good looking bodies still sell more soap.

It skews the image of naturism for all to one of, "we prefer you look good", so we don't put anyone off joining in. Not too many that look like me! I'll wager that low levels of participation are driven by many that believe they just aren't good looking enough. That too is irritating.

Man, so many things are irritating today! ;D

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on September 01, 2016, 10:23:00 PM
<snip>
I've been in camp grounds that sound like you never left your neighborhood. Very irritating. Same with the nudist facilities. People that prefer to free range would never go to a resort anyway.
<snip>
Duane
This reminds me of the suburbia in a field syndrome which seems to affect many of the textile Caravan Club meets which I see where we live.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 01, 2016, 11:51:12 PM
My wife's job takes her all over the west. After looking at the site about getting naked in Oregon, I decided to check if there was similar info on Washington.

Nothing as good as the Oregon one but some, in the process I ran across this article about Seattle (http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Exposed-and-stark-naked-on-purpose-1111565.php) nudists.

Being too aggressive can backfire on you so it would have to done with consideration.

Duane
The nudist park lady is just the old guard. Many of those places and those people came about in the fifties and sixties and were quite a step, pioneers in a very repressive era. They are like her. This came home to me when DF and I visited Glenn Eden in California. It was all fenced off with coming encroaching sprawl. They were very afraid that people would wander off property and "offend" someone. As if locals could close them down so how. They of course don't want any hassles and want to be left alone in their cages. It is community owned, so some sort of a consensus, or vote, by all or maybe just the board want to protect their interest which includes the real-estate and memberships monetary value.

To me, it is kind of like complying, wearing a really big set of clothes. It also reeks of "There is something wrong or harmful about naked."

In the babe article, I was thinking that most of the shots were of the two roommates that were involved in the article.

Mark Story's group has had tremendous success since this article. His wife just retired from the parks, but the way.

The thing that alerted me, was that prof who said that the Supreme Court "recently" made a ruling. I see that the Washington Supreme Court did, but I know of no ruling on the ultimate Federal level. The common legal argument is that the government, based on a compelling need can curb behavior, even religious practice, based on a ruling that brought Utah into statehood in the 1800's and their common practice of polygamy. This has been carried into human animal sacrifice, peyote ritual, etc. No one can show a compelling State interest in suppression of nudity if it were to be tried and argued that way, and when part of a religious/spiritual practice. Nudity has to be integral to the religious/spiritual system. So I suspect that the guy can only speak in ignorance because if he isn't talking Washington State, he can only speak of previously tested cases in law. This case would be a discrimination, putting one religion over another. Maybe it is just sloppy reporting. Thsi article has no depth. Has anybody seen anything about the Federal Supreme Court ruling on nudity specifically? I'm working on something to do with that.
Jbee
 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 02, 2016, 02:22:08 AM
To me, it is kind of like complying, wearing a really big set of clothes. It also reeks of "There is something wrong or harmful about naked."

That's kind of how I feel about the big fenced in parks.  Its like a big cage, or big clothes.  Hiding ourselves from the sight of the world because there is something "wrong" with seeing our bodies.   Its hard to escape that message.

Quote
No one can show a compelling State interest in suppression of nudity if it were to be tried and argued that way, and when part of a religious/spiritual practice. Nudity has to be integral to the religious/spiritual system.

There are few naked religious traditions that I know of other than some Wiccans.  And those don't go naked around the neighborhood --- although I have been naked in a Wiccan ceremony in the woods when a random family of textile hikers walked right through.  To go to court you would have to have a situation where people were arrested for being naked in public at a religious ceremony or something.  That is unlikely to happen.


Quote
Has anybody seen anything about the Federal Supreme Court ruling on nudity specifically? I'm working on something to do with that.  Jbee

The US government doesn't have any laws on nudity one way or the other.  They often enforce state laws on federal government property in each state.  That would end up in a state court, not a federal court.  So the US Supreme Court is unlikely to get a case.

You perhaps could file a federal civil rights and freedom to control your body case in federal court, similar to the abortion case.  I don't think that has happened. 

Bob


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on September 02, 2016, 02:42:51 AM
JBG, if you say it's true, I'll accept that Kathy Blanchard left the Seattle Parks Dept, but Mark Storey's name definitely has an 'e' in it. You've got the story right but the Storey wrong.

I'm pretty sure that the court case the professor mentioned was the Glen Theater decision of 1991. Not exactly "recent" when the article appeared in 2003, but more recent than it is now! That was an especially vile judgment that allowed the state of Indiana to prohibit a strip club from operating. I'm sure we'd all be happy to see businesses like that shut down (and with the Internet widely available, they're a lot less common now). But back then, the theater owners said that nude dancing was "expression" and therefore protected by the 1st Amendment, and the court agreed to a point, saying that they wouldn't accept a law that singled out strip clubs for prohibition. But they did accept the concept that a state's law could prohibit nudity under all circumstances, and that places like the Glen Theater would be covered under such a law, which was what the state was claiming. So the result was that a state could make sleazy sexually-oriented nudity for commercial purposes illegal, so long as they also made non-sexual nudity illegal! The only cheerful side of this was that other states didn't follow Indiana's example, but we got left with statements like "Nudity itself is not inherently expressive conduct", which might get used in other cases in the future.

Read it and weep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_v._Glen_Theatre,_Inc.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 02, 2016, 02:52:16 AM
I don't see why naked dancing or commercial sex is so badly attacked by the Christian zealots.  Its a job.  Its consenting adults.  I've known dancers as friends and on-line friends who were prostitutes.  High pay, flexible hours, emotional satisfaction, they enjoyed the job.  Their on-the-job risk of death or serious injury is much less than a long list of men's jobs.  People are so terrified of bodies, and fearful that someone, somewhere, may be enjoying their life.

They call it a "Free country" but they own, control, and regulate every part of our lives.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on September 02, 2016, 04:09:31 PM
Christian zealots attack anything they perceive as a sin to hide the fact they are not really living a true Christian life. Much like the Pharisees and Scribes the idea is control of the flock by pointing out their sins and the sins of others. And don't forget to blame the gay people for any ills that befall the country such as terrorist attacks, floods, hurricanes or blizzards and moral decay. Your right Bob: someone may be enjoying themselves by being nude and that might lead to (gasp) sex! Oh, and think of the children? Please, give me a break; it's the same one's that complain about Sharia law but are trying to impose those same values on me.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news -- Great British Skinny Dip
Post by: Bob Knows on September 02, 2016, 04:17:14 PM
I saw this article on the Great British Skinny Dip.

You brits probably already know about it.  Held in Somerset this year.  Here is the article.   Even a nude photo on their web page.  More naked exposure. 
------------------------------------------------------

If you didn't manage to make it to the beach or your local pool over the Bank Holiday weekend, the Great British Skinny Dip could be just the thing you need.

Following the huge success of Nudefest - held in Somerset for the first time this year - British Naturism is encouraging Somerset residents to strip off and Dorset residents to disrobe over this weekend (September 2 to 4).

There are plenty of venues taking part in your area - so why not take the plunge and try nude swimming for the first time?

Read more at http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/great-british-skinny-dip-2016-everything-you-need-to-know/story-29675595-detail/story.html#GUHuWbtAOFASQbic.99


http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/great-british-skinny-dip-2016-everything-you-need-to-know/story-29675595-detail/story.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 02, 2016, 06:54:07 PM
What a great idea! We have always talked about safety in numbers when it comes to being naked outdoors. What better way to introduce people to naturism.

Quote from: from article
What if I don't want to swim outdoors?
Don't worry - there are a number of indoor venues which are offering skinny dipping this weekend.
The closest such event to Yeovil is at Shaftesbury Oasis swimming pool in Shaftesbury near Gillingham. There will be a naked swim at the on Sunday (September 4) between 4pm and 6pm. There is a charge of £5 for this, and those taking part will be congregating at The Mitre Inn afterwards.

At least there is one motivation for going outside, you won't get tapped for 5 at the door!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 02, 2016, 10:50:49 PM
What a great idea! We have always talked about safety in numbers when it comes to being naked outdoors. What better way to introduce people to naturism.

At least there is one motivation for going outside, you won't get tapped for 5 at the door!

Duane


If I lived in the UK, I would be thinking of spending the weekend in Somerset, perhaps naked on the beach.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 03, 2016, 04:44:39 AM
These burkinis are not much different, maybe more clingy than the early swimwear going back to past 100 years ago. There was a liberalization of women being seen as too frail to swim (whenever that silliness began). Slowly, more skin was revealed. The culture changed, but we are still being influenced by the proper Victorian dress code and social oppression. It should be "don't expect me to cover up for your sake," but liberation isn't complete. I DO see that the body freedom should not end on the sand of the beach. Good for the beach, good elsewhere.
Jbee

The aggression against French women and French fashion is a lot worse than prior centuries, perhaps.  News today is about a woman being attacked on a French beach for not wearing breast cover. 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/08/31/protests-planned-woman-assaulted-topless-french-beach/

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on September 03, 2016, 07:02:53 PM
lovelly day in somerset  bob .... started raining about 10.30,  been p155ing down all afternoon.

i bought three mowers at auction this morning , theyre still in the van, still dont know if they actually run.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 03, 2016, 10:07:28 PM
These burkinis are not much different, maybe more clingy than the early swimwear going back to past 100 years ago. There was a liberalization of women being seen as too frail to swim (whenever that silliness began). Slowly, more skin was revealed. The culture changed, but we are still being influenced by the proper Victorian dress code and social oppression. It should be "don't expect me to cover up for your sake," but liberation isn't complete. I DO see that the body freedom should not end on the sand of the beach. Good for the beach, good elsewhere.
Jbee

The aggression against French women and French fashion is a lot worse than prior centuries, perhaps.  News today is about a woman being attacked on a French beach for not wearing breast cover. 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/08/31/protests-planned-woman-assaulted-topless-french-beach/

I'm having trouble ciphering the contradictory info. Two people are sexually harassed, words, then both she and husband physically assaulted. The police come and these people who are disturbing the peace are told to get nude, or leave. Did something get confused during the translation of the incident? Are these people police shills?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 03, 2016, 11:15:09 PM
This in from Daily Mail
-----------------------------------------------------

Mass naked brawl on French nudist beach after group of youths refused to strip off and stared at the unclothed sunbathers

    A nude brawl has erupted at La Teste-de-Buch, Arcachon, near Bordeaux
    It was triggered when 10 male teens entered nude zone clothed and stared
    Some of the beach goers started yelling at them to 'get nude or get lost'
    The brawl erupted and police attended. An investigation was ongoing


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767659/Mass-naked-brawl-French-nudist-beach-group-youths-refused-strip-stared-unclothed-sunbathers.html#ixzz4JEIw4UvH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: atourist on September 04, 2016, 01:17:24 AM
This in from Daily Mail
-----------------------------------------------------

Mass naked brawl on French nudist beach after group of youths refused to strip off and stared at the unclothed sunbathers

    A nude brawl has erupted at La Teste-de-Buch, Arcachon, near Bordeaux
    It was triggered when 10 male teens entered nude zone clothed and stared
    Some of the beach goers started yelling at them to 'get nude or get lost'
    The brawl erupted and police attended. An investigation was ongoing


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767659/Mass-naked-brawl-French-nudist-beach-group-youths-refused-strip-stared-unclothed-sunbathers.html#ixzz4JEIw4UvH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Don't assume anything in the Daily Mail or Mailonline is accurate. Here in the UK it's well known for its shameless prejudice and being economical with the truth. There may not be much truth in the story.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 04, 2016, 02:21:48 AM
Don't assume anything in the Daily Mail or Mailonline is accurate. Here in the UK it's well known for its shameless prejudice and being economical with the truth. There may not be much truth in the story.


I don't know about the Daily Mail, but the same story is in a long list of French and other media.  Here's another link.
http://www.thelocal.fr/20160830/frenchmen-spark-brawl-after-staring-on-nude-beach
 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on September 04, 2016, 08:53:09 AM
As far as I can tell it is a relatively simple incident where a group of clothed youths induld in offensive voyeuristic behaviour on a nudist beach so the nudists stated to sot=rt them out.
It was broken up by the French police who escorted the youths away.
Most of the stories seem to be written with some sort of spin varying from "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" to not wanting to deter nudist tourists from visiting the area.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on September 04, 2016, 09:24:23 AM
apart from anything else the daily wail has a problem with the english language ,  a lot of its reports seem to be written by teenage reporters whose first language doesnt apear to be english,  half the time it doesnt know the differrence between nude and topless.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 04, 2016, 06:19:04 PM
It's not uncommon for headline writers to refer to "naked" or "nude" people and the story to reference "half naked", ie a man without his shirt on. Sometimes this is sloppy work, sometimes intentional misdirection, but most often the sub-editor's attempt to get a headline in a restricted column width (though that's not a valid excuse on a web page). In the old days of metal type and constrained column widths we never had the flexibility of today's 'journalists', consequently we had to learn our craft properly. I'm often ashamed of the quality of what passes for journalism today and feel glad to be long out of the business.

Peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 06, 2016, 06:09:35 PM
Want a swim? Come to London

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/skinny-dipping-london-septembare-british-naturism
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 06, 2016, 07:47:32 PM
Want a swim? Come to London

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/skinny-dipping-london-septembare-british-naturism


Nobody harassed them except the private security guard at the big apartment complex.  That's good.  More naked people being seen around London the better. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 06, 2016, 08:35:23 PM
Sort of like "The National Inquirer" here?

Take a rumor and some photo shopped images and create a story so far away from the truth that no one can make any claims against them. Yet the story is out there.

Those rags at the checkout in the stores amaze me.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 06, 2016, 08:36:50 PM
Quote from: ric
. . lovelly day in somerset  bob .... started raining about 10.30.
Warm or cold rain? If warm does it make a difference?

I suppose your gear could get wet.  ;)

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 13, 2016, 04:02:15 PM
I double posted this because it fits two topics

I saw this article today.   

Naturism booms in France as young eager to ditch clothes

Published: 13 Jun 2016 15:44 GMT+02:00
Updated: 13 Jun 2016 15:44 GMT+02:00
Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

Why are more and more people, especially the young, opting to get naked in France? Hattie Ditton finds out more.

    Brits urged to come to France and get naked (13 Apr 16)

The term "naturist" may conjure up the image of jolly elderly hikers walking bare-bottomed clutching hiking sticks - but it might be time to update the stereotype.
 
Indeed, over the past three years, the phenomenon has begun to attract a younger audience according to the the FNN (French Federation of Naturism), seeing many more young families showing up to camps with their children.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160613/young-french-naturists-spark-boom-in-nudism
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 13, 2016, 06:20:09 PM
I had to comment where I first saw this in the "Naturism in decline?" thread. Those are huge numbers indicative of a mass cultural change and attitude, more than just half a million gathering at resorts.

It makes sense that the French youth in their 20's and early 30's would be affected by events of their times, question and act and react.   
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 13, 2016, 06:37:49 PM
I dug a little deeper into the articles and discovered this "Naturist Test" : http://naturism.france.fr/test-yourself/


My results were of course a naturist with my bags already packed. So I went back and purposely answered negative to see what they would say. After all, we are all naturists, not all of us know it yet.

This is the sly way they soothed the prude: Your result
"You still have reservations!

Naturism is not yet in your nature, that's for sure.

You live in harmony with nature, yes, for a short walk on Sundays.
When it comes to living nude, no way! You may have tried it once or twice, at home in your birthday suit or for a spot of midnight swimming (a moment of madness?) but there's a big leap to it becoming part of your lifestyle, a new place of freedom...

But still, as the saying goes, "only fools never change their minds"!
What's more, in naturist campsite/resorts these days, people go to restaurants or shop at the supermarket with their clothes on, so you aren't left wondering where to put your wallet!
More and more families are choosing naturist holidays and finding a true sense of well-being from it.

Perhaps a little visit to the "Naturist by Nature" website is in order: discover the questions & answers which everyone asks, find the naturist campsites and resorts which meet your holiday requirements in the most beautiful regions of France."
Jbee


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on September 13, 2016, 08:42:10 PM
<snip>
What's more, in naturist campsite/resorts these days, people go to restaurants or shop at the supermarket with their clothes on, so you aren't left wondering where to put your wallet!
<snip>

Jbee
Try this for a naturist wallet - available from camping shops.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1714/23631113213_fdf4318527_t.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1714/23631113213_fdf4318527_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 13, 2016, 10:56:25 PM
What's more, in naturist campsite/resorts these days, people go to restaurants or shop at the supermarket with their clothes on, so you aren't left wondering where to put your wallet!
Jbee


Yes, that is a problem.  We can't go to stores or restaurants with our natural human bodies.  I really enjoyed Cap d'Agde where the markets and restaurants were naturist.  I want a free country where we are not harassed by the government for our choice of clothes or not clothes.  We are all beautiful human beings.  We are not indecent or obscene just for being human.

A money belt, a shoulder strap, lots of ways to carry stuff.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on September 14, 2016, 12:28:29 AM
I find the BN money box very useful. See  here (http://www.bn.org.uk/community/store/category/5-bn-promotional/)

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 14, 2016, 05:32:32 PM
Interesting! I scrolled down to find the aforementioned box.

I was wondering how large it was and how much you could carry in it.
The photo doesn't really have anything in to to provide scale.
Soooo, I checked under the shipping options I discovered a curious feature:

Shipping Size:
    Size:      0 cm × 0 cm × 0 cm
    Weight:  0 kg

I would like to find out if they also manufacture any kind of storage products. My garage and a few of my closets could use a storage unit that occupies "no space". This would mean I no longer need to purge, cull or otherwise get rid of all those important items accumulated during life.

Placing all those things in a folded dimensional unit is not only a brilliant solution with regard to space, but the fact that a zero size in our universe seems to also imply a zero mass in the same universe, means transporting could be done via the postal service!

Why has this idea taken so long to appear? :D

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 14, 2016, 05:46:17 PM
JOhn, since you have done a lot of traveling where you occasionally need id's, monies and walletses, I am assuming the shoulder strap option is less of a bother than the "fanny pack" so ubiquitous in America.

I have one of those and but use it only on backpacking trips. It provides easy and quick access to trail snacks or other essentials without having to stop and dig into my pack.

Wearing one while nude hiking doesn't appeal to me. It's too much like wearing a belt. The shoulder bag seems less bothersome.

Do many naturists in your travels use the fanny pack?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 14, 2016, 06:13:18 PM
Fanny pack makes for a bizarre tanline. Although I just got a huge backpack belt to support the five pound overnight shoulder strap arrangement

Okay, drivers license, credit/debit card, maybe a car key and/or hotel key: I've got a wrist strap of velcro, or the brim of my hat. It will lug around a little more, like cash. On St. Martin, I established a line of credit for us at the bar restaurant. So we lugged water toys and towels to lay on instead. The blow up raft actually provided a cover to leave the "need bottoms" hotel that we were staying in as we walked over to the nude beach. It was a crazy situation. She wore only a g-string in the lobby and at the front desk, anywhere, but rules are rules. ???

 I have a small bag for my camera. It has room for cell phone/smart phone, and any ditty that I may need during a particular jaunt.

There is a particularly liberated sense of being absolutely naked. That is given by discarding even jewelry, and especially shoes. The encumbrance of a bag and/or strap can be eliminated, too, and that feels even more lovely naked. Have a friend to carry stuff and pay for things. Resolve to never unpack the bag, but toiletries. Stuff the bag out of sight in the closet, or in the boot/trunk of the car.

More on that mention of dressing for dining:

Isn't clothing an option? Do they actually require clothing to eat? Is it a way to act more classy and charge more, setting it apart from the bar/stand down by the beach? Are these places that have a nude beach only? That ain't naturism. That's not free range! Screw 'em. Absurd clothing obsession. They make no logical sense and enforce...ah, you know, bad guys imposing on my vacation. ::)

In Jamaica (1984-ish), ladies and gentlemen were required to wear a top (not bikini), covering breast in the restaurant. The rules. We were required bottoms everywhere. Tight short T-shirt and tiny triangle g-string, we were admitted, as we were now dressed for fine dinning. :o

At the Beverly Hills Hotel, I had a new vest pants, disco thing (1979 ish). I had no jacket, that wasn't fashion. They provided an oversized silly thing that didn't go with it, jacket. Better to look scruffy, than look good and break the rules. It was just too late to get reservations anywhere near there. Then, the food wasn't all that good, for all the hoohah and excessive bucks. The simple room cost as much as the washer and dryer that I bought the next week. It got me to thinkin' about all the ego hoohah. I know that the French are sticklers for table cloth and accoutrements when dinning, even a picnic on the side of the road. I know that food is supposed to taste better when associated with nice atmosphere. But, there is an inherent clothing obsession in there, a class obsession, and ego reinforcement that is unhealthy, socially and individually.

It is like a coverup at the beach to go grab a snack. It is senseless, sheepish behavior.
Jbee



Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 14, 2016, 09:20:34 PM
So many ideas in how we appear and behave are rooted in nothing more than compulsions foisted on us by the PC and fashion police.

It is sometimes too much effort to keep track of all the frequent ad hoc rule changes.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 14, 2016, 09:39:39 PM
Sometimes! https://thefreerangenaturist.org/2016/08/19/clothing-obsession-a-stab-at-humor/
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on September 15, 2016, 06:31:55 PM
On my naturist holidays I usually go to places that don't require clothing to dine. I always dress if asked but like to turn up naked to put the onus on them. Unfortunately at the last new place we stayed M asked as we checked in whether clothing was required in the restaurant, which rather banjaxed my usual technique.

I don't like bum-bags (in the UK the fanny is the female pudenda) and I find that all I usually need is cash, credit card, handkerchief  and keys. My sitting cloth clips conveniently to the back of the bag.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4034/4604568949_36244c0b46_t.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4034/4604568949_36244c0b46_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 16, 2016, 06:12:29 PM
I have heard that about the word. Here in the US it just means the "butt", of either gender.

Two peoples separated by a common tongue.  :)

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 19, 2016, 09:57:33 PM
I posted a video in the thread "Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism", see it here (http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/index.php?topic=850.0).

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on September 25, 2016, 04:51:58 AM
https://www.thelocal.fr/20160923/could-paris-soon-have-its-own-nudist-spot

Sounds like someone in France is using some common sense and is open to a naturist area in the city. On another forum it was noted that maybe they are following Germany's lead. Now if only we had politicians here that would listen to the requests of ours. I can't even get the courtesy of a return answer.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 25, 2016, 07:33:54 AM
At least the Green Party carries a more of an imprimatur than an average Joe. They also might have a little more juice at city hall.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 27, 2016, 09:39:02 AM
Paris gave the go ahead last night for a designated nude area, now they just have to decide where. En avant, les nus!!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 27, 2016, 02:35:46 PM
Paris gave the go ahead last night for a designated nude area, now they just have to decide where. En avant, les nus!!


Anywhere within 50 yards of the river would be good, but they will more likely designate some special park.  The trouble with special designated freedom areas is that they outlaw freedom everywhere else. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 27, 2016, 07:20:00 PM
Pjcomp, did the article say that the site had to be restricted to members?
Is it public land? If it is privately held but open to the public maybe that would be better.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 27, 2016, 08:25:41 PM
Paris gave the go ahead last night for a designated nude area, now they just have to decide where. En avant, les nus!!


Anywhere within 50 yards of the river would be good, but they will more likely designate some special park.  The trouble with special designated freedom areas is that they outlaw freedom everywhere else. 

Bob
Last time I checked that river, it was not inviting, had tall walls to it, not very accessible, and ick, not even in a full wet-suit. It rains in Paris 300 days a year, cold drizzling rain. Probably an indoor swimming area with patio. 371 patrons was it? That's a big pool need.

If anyone notices the posting of the final decision, where, I'd sure like to hear about it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 27, 2016, 10:51:11 PM
Last time I checked that river, it was not inviting, had tall walls to it, not very accessible, and ick, not even in a full wet-suit. It rains in Paris 300 days a year, cold drizzling rain. Probably an indoor swimming area with patio. 371 patrons was it? That's a big pool need.

If anyone notices the posting of the final decision, where, I'd sure like to hear about it.
Jbee


Having nudity allowed along the river would allow naked people wandering around town. They probably won't do that to start.

I would have to read the news articles again, but seem like I read that they had been talking about the large park west of the city, Bois de Boulogne.  It will probably take some more discussion to fix a place.  I hope the general attitude spills over.   

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 27, 2016, 11:26:26 PM
I remember that place and Longchamp. It was very busy, even back then. It would be like walking along in a big city park, during the weekends.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 27, 2016, 11:47:25 PM
I remember that place and Longchamp. It was very busy, even back then. It would be like walking along in a big city park, during the weekends.
Jbee


A perfect place to promote nudism.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 31, 2016, 04:36:02 PM
ESPN 2016 annual naked athletes "BODY" issue.   More promotion of naked bodies being seen by the public, lots of the public. 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/body/espn-magazine-body-issue
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 31, 2016, 08:45:26 PM
All shapes, sizes, types, colors genders and all of them in peak shape.

It's a small segment of society but certainly presents a great way for anyone to show the gifts God gave them, no matter their area of endeavor.

Great gallery of photos.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 01, 2016, 04:50:06 PM
Today there is several news items about an ongoing HBO show called "Westworld."   Its about a futuristic theme park featuring humanoid robots. 

The article I read says it has featured flagrant nudity from its beginning but the latest episode included several minutes of orgy sex along with lots and lots of nudity. 

I don't watch HBO much and I have never seen "Westworld."  I did see the feature film by that name 30 or 40 years ago.  The original didn't have nudity that I recall.   HBO likes to push the limits with their "adult" theme series. 

In my opinion, the more nudity that people see the better, and it doesn't matter if the naked bodies are supposedly humanoid robots.  They are portrayed by real human actors so real human bodies are shown on the series.  Mass market depiction of humans enjoying their bodies is good for all things naked.  Maybe I'll watch an episode. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on November 01, 2016, 05:36:09 PM
I'm all for familiarising the TV public with nudity, but if it keeps being portrayed in orgy/sex scenes that will only reinforce people's ideas equating nudity with sex, and making it even more difficult for us to get the message across.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 01, 2016, 06:40:56 PM
I agree with you there, Peter. Sexualized nudity is the kind that the commercial world wants to spread around, and it reinforces the idea that nobody would be interested in nudity for any reason except sex.

On the other hand, I was expecting the ESPN thing to be like soft-core porn in Sports Illustrated, and it was better than that. With men and women being shown in equivalent images, for instance, which is good to see. But they did feel the need to pose the people so the parts conventionally hidden stayed hidden, thus saying "Nudity is OK as long as you don't show entire bodies". And of course, another message is "Nudity is OK if you're gorgeous".
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 01, 2016, 07:24:22 PM
I remember that movie, back in the 70's I believe. The premise was that you go to a "theme park" of some kind, "Westworld" was one where you "pretended" to be a cowboy.

When it comes to this idea of pretending I get completely bored. I either can't or am unable to maintain the pretense that I am in an alternate reality. It's probably why reality shows put me to sleep. If it weren't for the volume of ludicrous behavior and the fact that the whole idea is insulting I might be at least interested to try it. The idea of going to a costume ball is also baffling to me.

We don't subscribe to HBO. Not sure I could sit through any episode even if it were available to me. So much TV these days is annoying.

Years ago I was browsing through a book I had, called "Murphy's Law: And Other Reasons Why Things Go Wrong". It was a series of funny variations in the Murphy's Law vein. One had to do with the attempt to explain bad TV.

It stated that, "Pure drivel tends to drive off the TV screen, Ordinary drivel." Which reminds me of another of Groucho's statements, "I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

So here we are again with another remake with the only difference from the 1st incarnation is the willingness of the latest hawksters to push the boundaries of the TV censors. If that is the only difference, I'll just go out on a hike naked and enjoy myself in nature without all the irritating baggage.

I wish those with the means and abilities to make these programs would move beyond the Jr. High and High School level of programing. I suppose I shouldn't fault them so much, if they didn't make buckets of money on this stuff, they wouldn't make it.

I agree with you too, Peter. This also raises again the question of whether you want to associate yourself with the messenger.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 01, 2016, 07:33:47 PM
JohnP I agree on the ESPN article. It wasn't just bodies of idealized 20 somethings.

There were NFL linemen, whose 6 packs are buried inside, and women boxers that could drop-kick a debutante through a window. They definitely don't fit that small segment of the populace. ALL were in top physical shape though.

It is, I suppose, a small step on the way to get to where we would prefer that the culture should be. That someone like us would be equally accepted as some celebrity.

Small steps do add up.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 01, 2016, 09:58:37 PM

It stated that, "Pure drivel tends to drive off the TV screen, Ordinary drivel." Which reminds me of another of Groucho's statements, "I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book." Duane


Groucho may have bashed TV but he earned plenty of money from staring in his own show.  "Say the secret word and win $100," was one of his most common sayings.

I set my TV recorder to record the HBO episode next time it comes around on HBO.  I would rather see naked hikers on TV than naked robots in a fake future, but the underlying message is the experience of seeing naked people.  It doesn't really matter in 4 years how or where they saw the naked people or what the naked people were doing.  They saw naked people, and didn't turn into lunatics or suffer other harm.   The more often the public sees naked human bodies the less concerned they will be about seeing a naked human body anywhere.

Bob





Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 02, 2016, 12:54:04 PM
WESTWORLD REPORT

I watched the Westworld episode last night on HBO.  It does insert naked bodies as a casual mater of fact without even mentioning of focus.  For example in the robot repair shop they wheel a naked female (with big dark nipples) lying on a gurney and park her across the room from some guy trying to build a robot bird.  Naked bodies are the background. 

The whole show is about some future theme park where bored people can come to pretend they are living in the fictional movie version of America's "Old West."   Realistic robots interact and allow the customers to win card games, win gun fights, ride horses, and hang out in saloons and brothels.  One older (it doesn't age so it looks as young as ever) female robot is planning to escape. An older man who created all the robots wanders in and out.  In the recent episode the life like "robots" were entertaining customers in a brothel of some kinds with lots of naked bodies and flagrant sex going on in the background. 

It is difficult or impossible for viewers (and Westworld customers) to tell which is a robot and which is another customer.   Like Disneyland, there is a "behind the scenes" section with repair and maintenance shops where naked robots are lying about or being repaired after being shot, etc.

The overall impression is that of casual nudity often not related to sex.  Sex is part of their entertainment for customers, but its background and not the central theme of the plot or the nudity.  My impression was that naked human bodies are treated with a casual and unconcerned indifference for their lack of cover.  In general that attitude is conveyed to the viewer, and is beneficial to public education about seeing human bodies.

Bob
 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 02, 2016, 04:03:35 PM
Thanks for the clarification. It's always a crap-shoot with anything from Hollywood. You just never know how they will treat a subject.

So, away from the sex scenes there were naked "robots" casually moving about? More of that and less of the sex would be better. Did any of the "non-robot" characters appear casually naked? If not, the implication is still nudity=sex. I would have to bite the bullet and watch one to have a more accurate reaction, but we don't have HBO.

Maybe we will hear more reports?
But I take your point of no one being harmed by the nudity.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on November 02, 2016, 05:17:06 PM
I hope my satellite provider will have a free HBO weekend soon so it can be viewed first hand. Or now that our travel plans will include hotel stays maybe I catch it there.

Back to the ESPN body issue, I remember one of the first ones featured Prince Fielder who besides his physique was not the poster child of what is considered fitness. The body shamers came out in force but I for one defended him considering his athleticism. Bodies come in all shapes, sizes and colors!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 02, 2016, 05:42:03 PM
Nudewalker wrote, "Bodies come in all shapes, sizes and colors!"

...and textures and abilities, and they tend to change in an infinite pilithora of conditions over time and use, care and conditions. They reflect the nature of the universe, in that they change, redefine, adapt and play. They are honest and in those ways are as the Universe. Clothing, gets people kinda stuck in one identifying mode...for a while. The art and decoration, or practical utilitarian coverings tend to become a hangup as identity...Dare I say less god-like?

Anyway, seeing female athletes with bodies that look more like the Discobolus statue was new to me.

I'm pleased that this isn't considered shameful, plain out sex, and is respectable among the athletic communities. Even though the genitals are hidden in the poses, the focus is then taken away from them to appreciate the rest of the body. Goes both ways there. Another step in the right direction and more healthy than the swimsuit issue. 
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 02, 2016, 06:02:48 PM
So, away from the sex scenes there were naked "robots" casually moving about? More of that and less of the sex would be better. Did any of the "non-robot" characters appear casually naked? If not, the implication is still nudity=sex. I would have to bite the bullet and watch one to have a more accurate reaction, but we don't have HBO.
Duane


I found it difficult or impossible to tell which character was a robot and which was a human customer.  The robots are human impersonators in the plot.  I don't think it matters if some of the characters wandering around naked were the anatomically correct "robots" or humans.   They all are clothed pretty much on the streets but several were naked, and just casually so, in the back office shops and in the party.   

Even the "sex scenes" were not focused on the sex.  It was some kind of background activity.  The main characters and plot happened in front of it without interacting other than avoiding naked pedestrian traffic. 

The more often people get used to seeing naked the better. 




Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 02, 2016, 06:25:46 PM
It shows them as naked bodies, not naked human bodies. Actors impersonating robots, which impersonate humans, which makes the nudity okay.

Eventually, this could be good training for people, as we are naked bodies and those are curious entities, so it is a good habit. Like coed locker-room.

But then there are other possible effects of this. It is okay to look and even stare at an unclothed robot, I suppose, but not a human, even though they appear exactly the same. That is some weird thinking! Is it okay to lust with a robot, like a blow up toy? What about the kids? Uh oh, there we have some controversial sex issues...kid robots! There is this theme, if taken out of the Theme park, that could rearrange social society, in not only body issues, but sexuality! It is okay to kill virtually, but not the real thing, and then attitudes get confused and dehumanizing habituation occurs.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on November 03, 2016, 04:26:40 PM
The desensitizing effects of video gaming have been discussed since the things were invented. There is still no consensus but there have been occasional tales of people acting out themes from the computer games in real life.

It's a bit disturbing to realize that if war games on a video can seep into real life what will happen if these virtual sexual encounters become as common.

Kinda creepy!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 20, 2016, 10:35:18 PM
Yale University naked students delays Yale-Harvard game.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2016/11/19/yaleharvard-game-delayed-on-account-of-naked-students-standing-on-a-wall/94132376/

Yale students have been getting naked in the stands since the 1970s according to this article.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 20, 2016, 10:43:18 PM
Why is everyone getting naked this year?

From GQ

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/nudity-london
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 20, 2016, 10:54:30 PM
My Naturism: At Odds With the Paradigm

http://mojoreisen.com/blog/?p=1839&cpage=1#comment-105319

This opinion piece says that nudism should be normal lives, not only for "recreation" as promoted by the nudist organizations. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on November 21, 2016, 09:37:27 AM
Agree wholeheartedly. On this forum we often have cause to comment on the differences either side of the pond; we don't have the big national organisations you do over there, and I think British Naturism, the nearest equivalent, is far less fixated on the gated organisations as you describe, Bob, and more in tune with the desire of naturists who, like us, favour the "free ranging" approach.

Nonetheless, reading other fora there are plenty of naturists who would prefer to toe society's line and accept they can only go where they're allowed to, or restrict themselves to foreign beaches. I even read one comment which decried naturist ramblers as exhibitionists, and claimed the only "true" naturists restricted themselves to the beach.

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 21, 2016, 10:33:40 AM
Yale University naked students delays Yale-Harvard game.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2016/11/19/yaleharvard-game-delayed-on-account-of-naked-students-standing-on-a-wall/94132376/

Yale students have been getting naked in the stands since the 1970s according to this article.
From a crowd control point of view it should have been delayed because of standing on the wall but the nudity is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 21, 2016, 10:38:35 AM
As a corollary to  Peter's response to Bob there is currently some quite acerbic debate on the BN forum where the contrasting attitudes of the free rangers and the factory farmed brigade is a major factor.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on November 21, 2016, 04:57:32 PM
Skimmed through these articles last night before bed, read them again with morning coffee and now my brain is beginning to function due to little or no sunshine to stir my awake hormones. I remember the first time the students mooned the opposition at the Yale-Harvard game as we were trying to determine who the bravest among us would be when we played our rivals next year. To bad it was my last year there, I have no idea if anyone did it, what the outcome was or if there was enough of a security presence to have them drop the idea and not the pants.

As for the other two articles and the points made; I have always felt that my nudity lends itself to a more healthy lifestyle; airing out the body tends to kill off bacteria, I feel more of a connection to nature and can meditate better naked outdoors and there is a better level of prayer to my God without the trappings of organized religion in a building. In fact, most of my better ideas, solutions and answers to problems have come walking nude in nature.

Having only had a small glimpse into the farm style of naturism I sometime feel there is a bit of a trade off with couples who support such places and it tends to be from the female perspective of safety; the closed gates provide a haven from prying eyes, perverts or predators. There is a comfort zone in the numbers of people plus the vetting process. And then there is the necessity side of things; as much as I would like to get out into the wilderness as Jbee and DF do there is a bit of  compromise in a relationship. Due to the wife's health creature comforts such as air conditioning that electricity provides which mean that we have to frequent more modern camping venues however she refuses to go to a "nudist" oriented place.

Finally, I have come to the conclusion that organizations here tend to support recreation nudity, as in fenced off or walled in venues,instead of promoting nudity as a wholesome lifestyle alternative. Maybe we need a group comprised of us free rangers along with doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs to provide a voice to normalize the normalize the human body? Think spring, that's when I do my best thinking! 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 21, 2016, 10:12:18 PM
My Naturism: At Odds With the Paradigm

http://mojoreisen.com/blog/?p=1839&cpage=1#comment-105319

This opinion piece says that nudism should be normal lives, not only for "recreation" as promoted by the nudist organizations.
Thanks for turning me on to that site, Bob. I have been enjoying it and the leads/links to other places such as this one.
There is however, in spite of the web-authors shared views with us (a kindred spirit, maybe), that along that top bar is the declaration on nude rights that ANRR popped up with, that restricts wholesome nudity to "appropriate places" like there is something wrong or dangerous about us. This is clear even with the addendum. I'm seeing contradictions, perhaps the publisher doesn't, yet...I don't know.

I certainly don't see TNS promoting the ANRR "put 'em on the reservations" values and pay to play naked, exclusively. Their magazine promotes free ranging nudity, protest and flamboyant public social actions. Their organization defends this as well as free beaches and resorts, the place where ANRR seems to stop. That's inspite of some of the leadership's view points, which are closer to ours. Change happens on multiple fronts, free beaches are a step, naked bike rides are a step. Promotion by providing a safe harbor is a step toward broader acceptance. Controversy gets the word out. I believe that you are correct, ANRR is old guard, limiting, in the way and self interested in their own game, both afraid of disturbing to greater forces and with many members economic interest's influence. Nope, I can't lump TNS in with them. 

Here there seems to be two different camps, that are filled with many of the same members and interests. TNS tries to appeal to all of them and entertain all aspects. Lee Baxindall's nude rec advise was to promote, and when he said nude rec was the way, that was what he saw from the seventies as the best viable strategy. We're in a new world, but places like Black's Beach are still giving people a safe place to experiment and learn about their own naturism. It is practical. People learn there and bring the lessons from the experience back home, often incorporating it into their every day life.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 22, 2016, 04:15:54 AM
As a corollary to  Peter's response to Bob there is currently some quite acerbic debate on the BN forum where the contrasting attitudes of the free rangers and the factory farmed brigade is a major factor.


That is good to hear about BN.

I have read some reports from the INF annual meeting and elections.  Apparently the same conflict between resorts and free range nudists was also their main conflict.   The free range advocacy group apparently won.  A free range nudist was elected President or Chair or whatever its called, and the INF has pledged to spend 5000 euros promoting general nudism in Europe.  It looks like free range is gaining ground on all fronts.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 22, 2016, 06:05:54 AM
As a corollary to  Peter's response to Bob there is currently some quite acerbic debate on the BN forum where the contrasting attitudes of the free rangers and the factory farmed brigade is a major factor.


That is good to hear about BN.

I have read some reports from the INF annual meeting and elections.  Apparently the same conflict between resorts and free range nudists was also their main conflict.   The free range advocacy group apparently won.  A free range nudist was elected President or Chair or whatever its called, and the INF has pledged to spend 5000 euros promoting general nudism in Europe.  It looks like free range is gaining ground on all fronts.

Bob
So, how do we get them to adapt the term "free range". It says so much about the resort/reservation block and caucuses and expresses where we need to go. Well anyway, it is good to hear some good news.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 22, 2016, 04:34:48 PM
So, how do we get them to adapt the term "free range". It says so much about the resort/reservation block and caucuses and expresses where we need to go. Well anyway, it is good to hear some good news.
Jbee

I saw the term "free range" used in one of the posts about INF's meeting.  I don't recall which post right now though.  I think it came up in their discussions over the direction they are going, but I'm getting news that is probably 3rd hand. 

Maybe "free range" is becoming an international nudist style.

Bob

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 22, 2016, 05:23:38 PM
Bob's latest reply prompted me to search the BN forum for the phrase "free range" and I got 75 hits with the earliest dating from May 2012. Almost all referred to naturism rather than chickens, etc.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 22, 2016, 07:13:38 PM
I find that very cool.  8)
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on January 10, 2017, 08:39:11 PM
Naked climber makes Daily Mail article.   

He has no cover.  What if he met another climber coming the other direction?   

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4101462/He-bare-ly-make-Brave-climber-ascends-terrifying-cliff-completely-NAKED.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 11, 2017, 04:34:02 AM
Naked climber makes Daily Mail article.   

He has no cover.  What if he met another climber coming the other direction?   

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4101462/He-bare-ly-make-Brave-climber-ascends-terrifying-cliff-completely-NAKED.html
Bet he saw that flick of the guy in Spain doing the same thing, without the hat. Wow, no place to rest.
If he had met someone coming down, they wouldn't have bumped heads...eeehww! What if the other climber was naked, too?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on January 11, 2017, 09:16:22 AM
er .... dont these mad bods always go up the difficult way then stroll down the easy way?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 12, 2017, 12:36:20 AM
er .... dont these mad bods always go up the difficult way then stroll down the easy way?
Maybe that is why he kept the hat on?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on January 22, 2017, 01:39:31 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-first-naked-workout-classes-9670914

Hopefully the start of a new trend
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on January 23, 2017, 12:22:29 AM

It would appear that the Nude-ercise participants are exclusively well-mature white males.  Us then?  Anybody on the forum joined this class?  Yes, I do hope it catches on!
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on January 23, 2017, 10:01:53 AM
I seem to recall that some of the naturist swims in the UK have had exercise classes and gym sessions for some time.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on January 23, 2017, 10:14:40 AM
Spectrum in Brum holds months yoga and tai chi sessions. We also have use of a gym and squash courts. We are investigating if aquarobics could be made available too.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on January 23, 2017, 03:22:50 PM
What an addition it would be to the Silver Sneakers program here! Where is the sign up sheet?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on January 23, 2017, 04:59:44 PM
I hate to disrupt this thread but I didn't want to start a whole new one just to mention this conversation. Yesterday after church and all over my social media there has been a backlash against those celebrities who participated in the Woman's March or who are anti Trump. And not that I value their opinions but I have noticed elsewhere on the nudist/naturist sites there is usually a list of famous people who participate in our lifestyle. So my question would be do famous people help or hurt any naturist causes considering the current climate? Also I know that those web sites lean more to the factory farmed type of nudism more than free range as we tend to practice.  It also seems that this group consists of more free thinkers also so the comments may be skewed.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on January 23, 2017, 07:43:50 PM
I hate to disrupt this thread but I didn't want to start a whole new one just to mention this conversation. Yesterday after church and all over my social media there has been a backlash against those celebrities who participated in the Woman's March or who are anti Trump. And not that I value their opinions but I have noticed elsewhere on the nudist/naturist sites there is usually a list of famous people who participate in our lifestyle. So my question would be do famous people help or hurt any naturist causes considering the current climate? Also I know that those web sites lean more to the factory farmed type of nudism more than free range as we tend to practice.  It also seems that this group consists of more free thinkers also so the comments may be skewed.


Trump won our election so one must assume that a huge part of America supports his program.   That was despite Hollywood actors, celebs, and the MSM pushing anti-Trump propaganda as hard as they could go for the past year.   Mr. Trump has pushed back and pointed out a lot of fictional nonsense or "Fake News" that the media uses all the time.  One might note that the Hollywood celebs are in the FICTION business so separating fact from fiction is not their stock in trade.

When celebs are on stage doing "in your face" sexuality then their naked sexual display hurts any association with nudism. 

When celebs are simply going naked at a free beach or nudist farm then photos of them going naked are helpful. 

Like anything else its all about context. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on January 24, 2017, 10:41:38 AM
report in our press this morning that kate was going to the bafta awards but the "celebs" dont want her there cos young attractive female royalty will take the media attention off them.

says it all really.

but back to trump , his party selected him to stand for election and the people voted for him... end of

all these celebs throwing their toys out the pram speaks volumes about them and has no effect whatsoever.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on January 24, 2017, 11:59:47 AM
Quote
and the people voted for him... end of

I understood he lost the popular vote.

Having said that I accept that under the present system he was elected legitimately. I make no comment on whether or not Mr Trump is the right man for the job. Time will tell and I'm not qualified to vote in that election.

We have the same in the UK were a party can gain the most seats but not the popular vote. The winners of course don't want the system to change. The other problem is if you change the system without really thinking it through you can have unexpected and unintended consequences, for example by giving low supported parties a disproportionate amount of power.

Interesting morning in the UK, the Supreme Court has poked the government in the eye over whether the government can invoke Britix without the consent of parliament. We live in interesting times.

I need to get out in the country and have a naked walk

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on January 24, 2017, 05:01:56 PM
I'm beginning to see this issue of nationalism more often in not only the US and the UK but other areas of Europe. The migration from the middle East may have a lot to do with it as my social media is full of ban Shiara law posts. As for the election I am in as much agreement and taking a wait and see attitude. This whole thing is most likely a symptom of my SAD and overthinking things. Like Davie I need a naked walk in the countryside to clear my head!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on January 24, 2017, 08:35:54 PM
I was amazed on a visit to Edinburgh when the "yes" to Scotland getting independence held a march. There were people from all sorts of countries waving banners and flags,all wanting to break away from their own country including from Spain, Belgium and a host of other countries.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on January 25, 2017, 06:24:09 AM
A lot of things going on in American politics.   I saw the nude photo of Mrs. Trump on Facebook again yesterday.  She looks good naked.  I'm sure it tends to support nudity in general having her naked photos posted around. 

It is being said that UK  PM May is visiting Trump on Friday this week.  Perhaps working on trade deals for after BREXIT. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 25, 2017, 07:27:58 AM
Many of us here would like to secede from southern Arizona and create a state called Baja Arizona. Twenty years ago, I was neck deep fighting a war with the powers that be to keep the incorporation of our Town of Tortolita. This nationalism is nothing new. We all like our “right” to self-determination. The world is increasingly being corporatized, homogenized with gigantic blankets of various types of power. Because it is getting so obvious the pitchforks are beginning to come out, even though, in this country, the corporate owned media hides it. This attitude was what motivated the Bernie uprising. In spite of the entire corporate media in this country giving him a total of only seconds in the context of challenging the presumptive candidate of the party and ignoring all of his issues, his message made it to the debates, but it was too late. This was a factor in Trump’s campaign strategy, to dupe the pitchfork holders, which many now, who voted for him, are seeing his picks as the bankster and corporate fusion of classic Mussolini fascism, in horror. He just got into office with a 32% approval rating (lowest in history) and the protesters Saturday outnumbered the inauguration attendees 3 to 1. Yea, yea, and we cannot forget Hilary, who stole her rhetoric from Bernie in obvious desperation to dupe people, just like Trump.

There will always be 30% that will support the president Trump no matter what he does, just as there will always be 35% that will support a new war. The key for the president and the oligarchy is to get another 16% to go along with his, or their plans. That is what media consolidation is about. 

There is a great deal of anger and outrage particularly in this country. I have had several friends of social media and privately in the flesh, discuss getting their guns out. I haven’t heard stuff like this since the late 60’s. There were millions of women, not to mention the men, taking to the streets last Saturday, many for the first time, all around the world. I thought it poignant when the only reportage of the issues discussed by the women’s March on Fox news, of 4 hours of intelligent and important speaking, was one line put out by Madonna. “Yes, I’ve been giving some thought to blowing up the White House, Too.” They meant to use it to demean and dismiss the massive march, but it opened the veil. She said the thing that everybody is afraid to say. They are that pissed, patriotic and outraged to commonly think these thoughts of violence. It is natural and common. I would imagine that the same thing is happening in social media on the other side among the 32%. Violent thought and fantasy are nearly always a distance from action.

The vast majority of Hollywood has always been more liberal and with their cultural media platform, they get a strong voice, but not as strong as Trump’s, another Hollywood celebrity, obviously. They often lend their names and influence to causes, sometimes to promote themselves, sometimes it just comes with the territory that they are known and people give them leadership. There are many examples like Ronald Raygun, or Charlton Heston, or Arnold Swartzenigger. People associated with their past roles, with great, or strong, personalities, time and money and name recognition. These people that “backlash” on nudewalker’s social media probably weren’t great fans in the first place. Don’t get me wrong, even these celebrities have the right to speak out, first amendment-wise.
 
At times of frustration and outrage, comedy has been a good outlet to defuse and vent. Trump will receive a truck…no convoy load. Laughter will help to quell the timber of the revolutionary fervor. Alex Balwin will be a household name. That’s what people who don’t hike naked with relief will do.

Otherwise I kinda go along with what Bob says, “When celebs are on stage doing "in your face" sexuality then their naked sexual display hurts any association with nudism. When celebs are simply going naked at a free beach or nudist farm then photos of them going naked are helpful. Like anything else it’s all about context. “

It has been too wet and cold to hike naked, even here in the desert of Arizona. But, last Saturday in a really crappy rain and wind storm, DF got together with her women’s group and took a short hike with 15,000 other mostly women, in a place downtown where nobody dares go nude. Yep, this time they were bundled up, but DF and I have wandered the same place in brief underwear for another occasion. As things heat up, no telling what you might see in the streets, but you will definitely bee seeing things happening in the streets. Everything political and governmental in this country at this time is unprecedented and extreme. Currently, my hope is that the other issues will keep nudity a low priority, giving us some flex under the major issue's radar, while we work like moths in a cloak (to borrow from Kipling).
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on January 25, 2017, 09:27:04 AM
though the scottish nationalists are making a lot of noise they havnt got a hope in hell of winning a referndum until brexit is sorted .     their wish is to be an independant country within the eu.   trouble is theres so many other regions of eu countries that want the same thing so that theres no way countries such as spain will let an independant scotland into the eu as it will encourage their own sepratists .   spain has basques in the north and andalucians in the south both grumbling over central government.
scottish independance wont happen if brexit actually happens,  if brexit stalls its a new ball game as far as a referendem in scotland is concerned, but even if they win it theres no way spain etc will let an indipendant scotland into the eu.  which could lead to fragmentation of other eu countries.... though that  has been the aim of the eu beaurocrats all along... they want a multitude of regions rather than 27 countries ....
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on January 25, 2017, 09:33:32 PM
Quote from: Bob
. . . Yale students have been getting naked in the stands since the 1970s . . . .

I read a very interesting book, "The Rule of Four" (https://www.amazon.com/Rule-Four-Novel-Ian-Caldwell/dp/0385337124/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1485375080&sr=1-1&keywords=the+rule+of+four), where the Princeton student body had a tradition of running around the quad naked on the day of the 1st snow of the season. It must be all that pent up tension of higher education seeking a release. Looked it up and the tradition was real but had been discontinued a couple decades ago because it somehow suddenly became "inappropriate".

The description in the novel, as I recall the author(s) attended Princeton, was presented in a very innocent manner.

Peter's report of the BN assertion that:
Quote
decried naturist ramblers as exhibitionists, and claimed the only "true" naturists restricted themselves to the beach.
That is rather backwards. The natural world includes more than beaches, most certainly manicured and shaped ones at that.

Nudewalker, an originazation that tries to define "good" nudity as only recreation will eventually attempt to become the authority. Most of us here agree that "good" nudity can be normal. And vice-versa.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on January 25, 2017, 09:39:24 PM
er .... dont these mad bods always go up the difficult way then stroll down the easy way?

Climbers seldom "down" climb. They either rappel or walk off as ric says. The one rappelling would have simply waved on the way down, "Nice day for climbing, eh?"  ;D

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on January 25, 2017, 09:50:55 PM
"I need to get out in the country and have a naked walk" - Davie
"Like Davie I need a naked walk in the countryside to clear my head!" - nudewalker

Yes! I AGREE!

I do not place any FAITH in human leaders and absolutely do not consider celebrities as any sort of role model for myself. Humans always mess up and spoil your little fantasy.

What I do, is expect anyone in a position of influence they have intentionally sought to follow through on any pledge, agreement or oath they have taken.

Celebrities do not take oaths to be celebrities. They are the beneficiaries of public attention that is as unpredictable as the weather. Why would anyone want to use them as a role model?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on January 27, 2017, 06:21:02 PM
'Nobody runs for the hills': is Britain ready for everyday nudity?
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jan/27/britain-undress-charlie-gilmour-naked?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on January 27, 2017, 06:53:30 PM

It does seem to be the case that the Donald is putting his signature on numerous orders etc., which reflect a new wave of US nationalism and putting the liberal clock back decades.  Indeed the rise of the right and this seeming tendency for more and more nationalism -Scots, Eastern European nations splitting into ever smaller, almost tribal, segments, Spain and France having national groups wanting autonomy, akin to welsh or scots in UK, and the rise of the far right in France and to an extent in the UK (that's what drove the brexit vote I reckon), we are in a perplexing time of change and only time will tell where it will lead.  Trumps inauguration speech seemed shot through with a desire to bring capital and profit back to the USA which one interprets from his other statements as being partly funded by decreasing expenditure and largesse in the rest of the world.  A statement of a protectionist mindset that is usually restricted to small states with extreme politics.  It seems obvious that a proportion of the wealth of the US that is spent philanthropically abroad, or on military action, if redistributed at home, could make a contribution to domestic economic growth (recovery) (something that Roosevelt did in the new deal, wasn't it?  ), yet surely there is room for compassion, largesse and support of the rest of the world by one of the worlds leading, richest nations. 
One wonders about Trump's sanity, however, hearing the statements on supporting torture and encouraging nuclear proliferation.
I find the current situation very perplexing and the huge public protests that are going on in the US and abroad seem very sterile without key US political figures at their head that are able to hold Trump to account for his proposals and subsequently his actions.
You voted him in, citizens of the US, you have to see where that goes....as do we all.


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on January 27, 2017, 09:16:54 PM

It does seem to be the case that the Donald is putting his signature on numerous orders etc., which reflect a new wave of US nationalism and putting the liberal clock back decades.  Indeed the rise of the right and this seeming tendency for more and more nationalism -Scots, Eastern European nations splitting into ever smaller, almost tribal, segments, Spain and France having national groups wanting autonomy, akin to welsh or scots in UK,
John

Yes. President Trump is probably the best thing that Americans have done for ourselves in a quarter century of slow failure.  I read that the French are also championing a new direction in political leadership after enduring all the violence in Paris.  UK PM May visited the US today and apparently got along well with President Trump.  She carried QE's invitation to visit the UK which President Trump accepted. 

He does own a couple of the better golf courses in Scotland, but I don't know if he will take time of for golf on that trip.  President Trump says he gets bored on vacations and likes to keep busy.

Its been a very long cold winter here in Spokane, WA, USA.  We still are snow covered and our 2 week forecast just says more snow. 

Bob




Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on January 27, 2017, 10:05:45 PM
First impressions, with all the executive orders Pres Trump is signing, are that he's aiming to run the government like a company CEO. Be interesting to see how that sits with the politicians who think THEY. are running things
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 28, 2017, 08:06:40 AM

Mussed it up. Can't fix my mistake.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 28, 2017, 08:12:14 AM

...One wonders about Trump's sanity, however, hearing the statements on supporting torture and encouraging nuclear proliferation.
I find the current situation very perplexing and the huge public protests that are going on in the US and abroad seem very sterile without key US political figures at their head that are able to hold Trump to account for his proposals and subsequently his actions.
You voted him in, citizens of the US, you have to see where that goes....as do we all.


John
I didn't vote for Trump. The election was rigged from the beginning, mostly by the corporate media and gerrymandering and unabashed lies. This is not my president. More than half of the electorate is ashamed to the world, to those who fought for freedoms, and shocked by his behavior, like me. I resent anyone saying that we, that is ME, elected him. He just plain doesn't represent me, he in fact is destroying everything that I hold dear and value about this country, its government, national treasures and fabric. I've seen many elections lost. I know what that is and I accepted those defeats, but this is an entirely different matter.

Bob and I disagree on this. It is okay that he believes what he does politically, but please, don't believe that Trump represents the American people, not generally and then lump me into this one. A close example would be if I were a prewar Italian and you said that Mousolini is my idea of Italy, that I elected him, that I should identify with what he is doing. He was hung from a telephone pole. To me, that is the appropriate place for the likes of Trump and the corporate fascist cabal.

Yea Bob, I feel for you in that winter crapola up there. It has been just cold and wet, or windy enough for weeks now in Arizona. Of course nothing comparable, but just enough to steal away pleasant naked days with one short naked tease. The result is the same, stuck naked indoors. Naked outdoors is uncomfortable.
Jbee
Title: That's the Naked Dude. He walks by all the time.
Post by: Bob Knows on February 05, 2017, 01:44:40 AM
This was linked on Facebook.   Its dated Feb 22, so I'm not sure its this year.  So much Fake News these days.

-------- http://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/dude-shows-up-to-the-nashville-airport-completely-naked/ -----------

Dude Shows Up To The Nashville Airport Completely Naked
KFC | Feb. 22, 12:50 pm| 0 Comments

Daily Mail – A man who walked into Nashville International airport completely naked on Sunday was arrested for public indecency, police said. Travelers were shocked to see the man wait in a check-in line and walk through the airport with no clothes on. The man has not been publicly identified and is in police custody for public indecency, a BNA spokesperson told WSMV.  Tod Brilliant, a man traveling from California to Nashville for business, captured the moment and shared the images to Facebook. ‘So this just happened at Nashville airport,’ Brilliant said in the album’s caption. ‘I walked up to him and said “You’re amazing”. He replied, “Thanks”. Then they came for him.’ ‘I was pretty impressed with Nashville. Aside, from a few people who’s jaws were dropped everyone else was doing their thing, going on business as usual. It was a great start to Nashville it’s a great city,’ Brililant later told WSMV. This is not the first time the man has been arrested. Airport officials said they have seen him walking outside the airport without clothes in the past, but this is the first time he was seen inside the terminal.

Best part is the airport officials being like “Oh yea thats the naked dude. Walks by here naked all the time. Never came in before though.” Oh ok cool. No big deal then. Its just Naked Dude. Whiskey, live music, chicken fried chicken, and Naked Guy. Thats what Nashville does!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 06, 2017, 07:25:10 PM
Public indecency is on the state law books. I suppose that that is what he was charged with. Someone had to be offended by it accordingly. But there seems to be no mention of anyone being offended. Just jaw drop WTF. I would suppose that most peopel are too busy going somewhere to have the time to be offended. Perhaps people are more likely offended when they have little else to do? It would be interesting to know how this pans out in court.

We were down in the Canyon at Redington Pass yesterday, talking to people about the forest service and getting signature support. No one had ever had any problem with a nude down there. One guy has been going down there 60-80 days each year for most of 15 years, never once had a problem. Nobody gets offended.

One young woman told me that she did have a family cover the eyes of their children as she hiked by.

There were reports of a couple of guys playing with themselves as voyeurs, which the nudes have given stern objections to.

One guy was way up stream, when he bumped into a female Forest Service packing a pistol riding a horse. She had no problem. It was as if he were dressed.

A very small percentage of people object to nudity and they are just concerned about kids seeing a body, which is ignorance.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on February 06, 2017, 08:11:37 PM
One young woman told me that she did have a family cover the eyes of their children as she hiked by.

When I went on the Naked European Walking Tour, one of the German hikers there told me about how she and her husband were out on a walk with their local nude hiking group (they have such things in Germany, evidently) and they met a family out on the trail and the parents did that, they covered up the children's eyes. And she said "And immediately, my husband covered up his own eyes as we walked past". Pretty good instincts there.

When we met people on the trail it was like this:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28291527/Naturism/NEWT14/mknott.jpg
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on February 06, 2017, 08:18:10 PM
Not so good news from England. Usually the law there is fairly benign, but that really means you can get away with being naked occasionally in unpredictable places. If you do it repeatedly (like around your house) and the neighbors don't like it, you can get into some trouble there, same as anywhere. But note that there's no question of this being a sexual crime, more in the nature of someone being a pest.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/naked-carpenters-trial-to-start-119989/
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on February 06, 2017, 11:13:43 PM
Public indecency is on the state law books. I suppose that that is what he was charged with. Someone had to be offended by it accordingly.
Jbee


There is a lot of controversy in the US lately about whether or not someone has a right not to be "offended" by the actions or speech of someone else.  A lot of liberals on college campuses are whining about being "offended" by what someone said, or a flag they saw.   A lot of conservatives have argued that nobody has a right not to be "offended" by what someone else is doing.  They argue that a more serious harm than "being offended" is the standard for law and order.  Many of the same conservatives complain that they are "offended" by seeing human beings. 

I hope it works out that being "offended" quits being someone else's responsibility.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on February 07, 2017, 07:43:44 PM
Quote from: pjcomp
First impressions, with all the executive orders Pres Trump is signing, are that he's aiming to run the government like a company CEO. Be interesting to see how that sits with the politicians who think THEY. are running things.
Hence one of the core advantages of the US Constitution, "Checks and Balances". That is the one most people are most uneasy about. Too many CEO's . . errr, sorry! . . Presidents, have run rough shod through the halls of congress with the abuse of executive orders.

I think it is appropriate that an old ship of the line in American history is named the "USS Constitution". Because of a battle in the War of 1812, it got it's nickname, "Old Ironsides" (http://www.history.com/news/how-uss-constitution-became-old-ironsides-200-years-ago), because shells bounced off the sides of the ship.

There have been many constitutional crises and that document has survived them all and it will survive many more.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on February 07, 2017, 07:44:54 PM
Quote from: Bob
I hope it works out that being "offended" quits being someone else's responsibility.
Thanks for that, Bob!
Sometimes stating the obvious is necessary.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 07, 2017, 08:52:34 PM
Not so good news from England. Usually the law there is fairly benign, but that really means you can get away with being naked occasionally in unpredictable places. If you do it repeatedly (like around your house) and the neighbors don't like it, you can get into some trouble there, same as anywhere. But note that there's no question of this being a sexual crime, more in the nature of someone being a pest.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/naked-carpenters-trial-to-start-119989/

I've got to cut some oneby T&G slats. Am I supposed to use a hand saw?

So I've never seen a belt with shoulder straps, nor and empty belt. SUch a poser.

Anyway, I'd like to know how this one turns out. People generally on that island have a notable cultural identity in attempts to be reasonable, from traditions of debate to court behavior.

I really liked Bob's comment, "I hope it works out that being "offended" quits being someone else's responsibility." I have to ponder what injecting "alarmed" into that sentence, like our state laws do, would make the same sense...how would a naked human being cause alarm? There is that "intent to cause" factor, too.

If you see th ecourt result, I'd like to know about it.

How can he afford the expense of a two day trail?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on February 08, 2017, 07:35:18 AM

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/naked-carpenter-cleared-120208/

He was cleared, but doesn't augur well for neighbourhood relationships, I fear

Peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 08, 2017, 07:56:54 AM
Yea for the good guys! Justice is good to have.

As for the neighbors, maybe they will back off after the ruling and get over it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on February 08, 2017, 03:44:21 PM
Excellent result! And it's especially good to see that the judges gave a very reasoned judgment, recognizing that the neighbors were genuinely upset by the man being naked, but saying that in the end his rights were more important. I'm sure we don't like the idea of a conflict developing over public nudity, but if there has to be a fight, we want to win.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on February 08, 2017, 03:49:58 PM
It is indeed a good result. It seems that the CPS didn't follow their own advice. It is also apparent that the Behaviour Order imposed on Mr Jennings is an example of punishment without due process. The right to free expression has trumped prejudice for once. We need to be aware that this case was at a Magistrates Court and does not set a legal precedence. It also illustrates that no-one has a right not to be offended.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on February 08, 2017, 03:59:10 PM
Its sad that so many neighbors got so "offended" by seeing a member of their own species.  Its a form of misanthropy.  It is also sad that the magistrate had to find that being naked was "expression" and not just an acceptable choice of body covering or not.  He was excused only because he was in his own fenced garden. 

Its good to have  win.  Its sad to see the magistrates having to go around so many corners to end up with what should be a straight forward result. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 08, 2017, 08:31:43 PM
"Misanthropy!" Interesting definition. Kinda is.

This is hating a part of ones self. Anger at one self, at ones body. Something is wrong with ones self and must be covered up, confined and in shame. It is a shadow that is to fear and fight.

One man just exclaimed that it is "just wrong." He is displaying a socially ingrained sense of correctness, without any intellectual deliberation, merely accepting status quo without question. A more inflicted upon his humanity. He doesn't even know what he is doing, similar to an unconscious robotic that is programed.

How can a reasonable person be offended by their own body? Staying covered is enforced in law and social stigma and so these do harm. Being human is being in and accepting ones body, to be aware in it, to be of it, to not deny it, to love and experience it fully. It is amazing that such an occurrence takes place in law, in a neighborhood, or anywhere at all!

Reality is not found in clothing. Clothing creates illusion to the wearer and to the outside. It follows that the only way to escape illusion, is to stand naked in the world that the body springs from. One must not merely intellectualize, but experience fully the body as such. One cannot just imagine what it is like to go about the world naked, one must actually do it, meeting the shadows full force, knowing the gifts and be amazed by them. Otherwise one cannot fully understand what it is to be a human and being. Most of western humanity is only naked 10 or 15 minutes each day, maybe in a shower, if even that.

When people experience nudity in an accepting circumstance, they love it. That is universal because it is in our nature that the gift of a free body is so wonderfully alive. The naked body is the price of a ticket to a spiritual sense that may ground each of us in the moment, where illusions are unveiled and unlearned and comfort can be found in ones humanity. Any person who has experienced naturism knows this and then seeks for more. 

It's like a blind man telling me that I look ugly.

Public order is not to go so far as to diminish ones exercise of ones humanity. These laws are much more oppressive and imprisoning than most people understand.

Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on February 08, 2017, 09:03:43 PM
I agree with you, Bob.

The idea that someone, minding their own business in a manner that is within defined law, must be redefined as "free expression", is annoying. It implies an artistic aspect that does not exist.

Me walking nude to pick up the mail is not "free expression". It's a daily chore where, instead of choosing between long pants or shorts, I choose to not wear either. If I wish to conduct some form of free expression while pickin'-up-the-mail", that's different.

I am weary to the bone lately with all this PC, safe space, safe zone silliness that prohibits anyone from speaking honestly. Notice I said honesty, not truth! Those are two different concepts.

It's just a guy minding his business, fer cryin' out loud.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 08, 2017, 09:49:05 PM
Free expression doesn't always imply such as art. Just the natural goings about of your humanity and its relationship in the world as I explained just above. This can also be particularly spiritual expression.

I don't know fer sure which definition this was referring to.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on February 09, 2017, 08:34:51 PM
The replies seem to trend a majority to support.

About the 10th or 11th reply has a link to a site (http://www.gold.ac.uk/news/naked-and-unashamed/) about how nudity is a benefit.

Good result!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 10, 2017, 05:34:49 PM
The replies seem to trend a majority to support.

About the 10th or 11th reply has a link to a site (http://www.gold.ac.uk/news/naked-and-unashamed/) about how nudity is a benefit.

Good result!

Duane
Good score, Eyesup! I especially enjoyed the cute retro nudists clips in the video. I watched it twice.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on February 11, 2017, 02:30:14 PM
Not all of the news is good news. And not everyone in Vermont is a Bernie Sanders voter.

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/news/local/waterford-man-charged-with-assault-at-nude-beach/article_be47a4c1-ed84-54d9-b965-be3dfeb60d69.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on February 11, 2017, 02:56:34 PM
Not all of the news is good news. And not everyone in Vermont is a Bernie Sanders voter.

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/news/local/waterford-man-charged-with-assault-at-nude-beach/article_be47a4c1-ed84-54d9-b965-be3dfeb60d69.html

Its hard to tell who someone would vote for.   That group of Bernie voters out at UC Berkeley last month got very violent.   This Barber person who is charged with assault has a French origin name but the actions don't seem very French. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on February 11, 2017, 05:09:34 PM
This reads like one of those "hold my beer and watch this!" stories. I've witnessed the same type of behavior at textile beaches, usually fueled by a few beers and some macho bravado. It is hard to tell who someone would vote for, both sides have their share of nut jobs. That is to avoid the use of a more descriptive term.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on February 11, 2017, 08:33:41 PM
I always told my kids that stupidity is no respecter of race, gender or family origin.
Two quotes from "Twelfth Night" come to mind:

   Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb like the sun, it shines every where.

and

   There is no darkness but ignorance.

Both are spoken by Feste, the fool in the play.

It is one of the things that makes America a frustrating puzzle to new citizens, and entertaining to watch to the old hands on the block. Unless, of course, you are on the receiving end of a knuckle sandwich.

JohnP, what is the legal age in Vermont? Southworth, the 19 yr. old involved in the altercation, was shielded by his mommy from any contact by the police. I guess he exhibits independent behavior only when she is not around.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on February 13, 2017, 12:09:17 AM
Speaking of foolery, and orbs which do shine like the sun:

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/eastside/police-stop-nude-jogger-on-microsoft-campus-after-seeing-illuminated-buttocks/

Free range naturism seems to have occurred on Bill Gates' territory, but the police said "jogging in the nude could be considered indecent exposure", which I suppose shows some generosity of spirit. As for “trying to build up his immune system to fight the cold weather", I'm doubtful.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on February 13, 2017, 01:21:28 AM
Speaking of foolery, and orbs which do shine like the sun:

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/eastside/police-stop-nude-jogger-on-microsoft-campus-after-seeing-illuminated-buttocks/

Free range naturism seems to have occurred on Bill Gates' territory, but the police said "jogging in the nude could be considered indecent exposure", which I suppose shows some generosity of spirit. As for “trying to build up his immune system to fight the cold weather", I'm doubtful.


Being naked is not criminal in Washington State unless there is deliberate acts to cause someone else alarm or affront.   Jogging and minding your own business is legal, and the cops apparently know it but harassed the fellow anyway. 

Here in Spokane, Washington State, there was a news story this week about a nude jogger who tried to capture and carry off a young woman.  The news story said he tried to wrap her in a blanket and capture her.  She escaped and called the cops.  He was soon caught.  He was charged with a couple of serious crimes, but no mention was made that he was charged with any crime for being naked.    He apparently did not get much notice while jogging naked until he attacked a female jogger.   That's pretty much how it should be.

The cops at Microsoft should mind their own business.  (Perhaps Microsoft asked them to interfere with the jogger.)  Cops pretty much do what big corporations ask even when its not legal.

Bob

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 13, 2017, 06:35:06 PM
I hope violence doesn't erupt first hand. I was threatened once, but when his drunken girlfriend screamed, "You guys are so cool, I just love you," and then pulled off her top, he was busy trying to convince her otherwise to bother anybody else. Alcohol....
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on February 14, 2017, 07:07:49 PM
Quote from: Seattle Times
. . “seeing nude buttocks illuminated by a streetlight,”
Are these special streetlights that target only the buttocks of a person? how much extra do you pay for such a specialized feature?

In some quarters that would be regarded as sexual discrimination.

Quote
. . Police warn that jogging in the nude could be considered indecent exposure - although the man was not charged with a crime.

“We do not have pictures to share of this incident,” police said in the release. “You are welcome.”
Maybe I'll send a thank-you note to the police thanking them for protecting my "oh-so fragile" sensibilities.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on February 15, 2017, 01:16:44 AM
In some quarters that would be regarded as sexual discrimination.

"Call from headquarters--they're reporting a view of hindquarters."
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on February 15, 2017, 03:47:09 PM

Last night there was a new 1-off Channel 4 documentary about The Great British Skinny Dip which was a BN marketing event run in September last year.  I suspect the link won't work outside the UK but here it is for interest - Brits, it is available for a month from yesterday (no charge but you may have to sign up to watch).
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-great-british-skinny-dip


I can't decide whether the programme was pro-, anti- or neutral.  I guess the naturists who spoke, who were mostly regular club members and, as the documentary advised, were more senior members of society, gave a pretty good impression and the BN Marketing guy Andrew Welch was pretty positive and the depiction of his relationship was fairly sympathetic.  There was a scene interviewing the next door neighbour of a garden naturist which unearthed some real body insecurity of the interviewee resulting from her desire to be normal and fit society's impression of her.  That counterpoised and supported the naturists who almost all said words to the effect of being comfortable with what they are and therefore having positive consequences of naturism.  However, the latter stages of the documentary underlined the fact that only about 300 had attended a national event held all over the country and that nobody new had turned up (it was foul weather - respect to those that did support the event).  I guess the attempt was to suggest that Naturism was a bit irrelevant and was dying out in the UK.


Somebody else watch it and give us all their opinion.


My wife watched some of it with me and a useful conversation ensued where I averred several times during the programme that chumming up with a lot of strangers in a naturist club, naturist discos and other nude togetherness was not at all on my naturist agenda (unless the opportunity arose to enjoy some nudity thereby e.g. on a collective skinny dip).  I think she was relieved by this - maybe she was afraid I would try and drag her along to a CO club.  I remarked that there was nothing wrong with being naked in itself but I didn't need the barbecues, miniten, discos other people and what not any more than she did.  I also opined that I would love to go open water swimming naked in a lake or a river and would be quite happy to join a group to do that on such as TGtBrSkDip.  No adverse reaction to that, probably because it isn't on the agenda as a possibility at the moment.  She didn't ask what was on my agenda!  I didn't mention that I had been to one of the clubs shown in the programme!


I also came across this http://www.gold.ac.uk/news/naked-and-unashamed/
Somebody seems to have done some proper research and concluded a specific benefit of social naturism.


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on February 15, 2017, 04:58:29 PM
Well, I'm going to assume that being outside the UK it prevented my viewing. I got past the point of accepting there would be frontal nudity but that is as far as it would go. Maybe someone will figure out a way for us here to circumvent it or else move it to a venue where we could see it. It was a shame that the weather was foul and it seemed to give you the feeling that the producers were trying to give the impression that naturism is dying off in England.

Proper research? That is becoming laughable here in the US! It seems science is being attacked on all fronts starting with the Creationists to the Global Warming Deniers. I swear they are trying to take us back to the Dark Ages.  One discussion session I challenged a person to provide evidence, not opinion, that children seeing parents nude would scar them for life. They had to admit that all their searches led them to the one study that confirmed that there was no link and it's the only study published! Everything else out there are opinions.

But now I am rethinking, as you provided food for thought, what should my naturist agenda be? As of now there is a peace and happiness in the little niche that has been carved out from the life changing retirement. I have written to law makers, policy makers, department heads of parks and forests plus a few others to plant the seed of nude recreation. Is it time to take it to the next level? And how would I go about that? I need another pot of coffee.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on February 15, 2017, 06:32:13 PM
Yeah, John. I spotted that one while browsing from a different post (http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/index.php?topic=663.msg6951#msg6951). It's a good article.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on March 11, 2017, 03:38:41 PM
US Marine Corps attacks naked photos of female Marines.   Commander says of photos female marines "“When I hear allegations of Marines denigrating their fellow Marines,..." 

This whole thing is sending a powerful message that photos of the person, and not just uniforms, is denigrating and destructive.   My reaction is to wonder what is wrong with sharing photos and appreciating the beauty of other people?   I think the Officers are sick.  Their Prudery is a psychological problem. 


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/10/nude-photo-sharing-scandal-at-marines-expands-to-other-branches.htm
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on March 11, 2017, 03:41:36 PM
Naked female wearing white paint.  Not arrested.   Not being denigrated.

(http://www.photos.bradkemp.com/whitewoman.jpg)


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2981788/naked-female-clown-white-paint-red-nose-worcester/
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on March 11, 2017, 04:21:23 PM
Say what you will but there is a double standard which in this case goes against the male sex. An exposed penis is seen as bad as an exposed gun. Both are deemed dangerous!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on March 11, 2017, 09:49:54 PM
Say what you will but there is a double standard which in this case goes against the male sex. An exposed penis is seen as bad as an exposed gun. Both are deemed dangerous!
In the UK a gun is usually regarded as more dangerous than a penis but I'm not sure that is true across the big puddle.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on March 12, 2017, 10:06:22 PM
If a woman, or man, is posting naked pictures of themselves on a site they need to shut up.

If someone is taking pictures of them naked without their knowledge and posting them, that is different. That's no different than someone coming into your home, taking pictures, videos, recordings of any type and posting them without your knowledge, permission or sanction. That is a violation of your right to privacy. 

The woman in the photo is outside, naked by choice.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on March 13, 2017, 08:51:16 AM
US Marine Corps attacks naked photos of female Marines.   Commander says of photos female marines "“When I hear allegations of Marines denigrating their fellow Marines,..." 

This whole thing is sending a powerful message that photos of the person, and not just uniforms, is denigrating and destructive.   My reaction is to wonder what is wrong with sharing photos and appreciating the beauty of other people?   I think the Officers are sick.  Their Prudery is a psychological problem. 


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/10/nude-photo-sharing-scandal-at-marines-expands-to-other-branches.htm
Prudery is one thing, but privacy is another. Nude, or not, I would expect my pics to be published with permission. These were published making sex objects of their fellows, giving support to a culture which would take away from the business of being soldiers. Boys will be boys and girls girls, but it needs to be minimized for the military to work effectively. Besides, the military is not just another job, it is life or death and when you sign a contract your first job is to follow orders without question, prude or not prude.

I agree with you that it appears that the brass is grandstanding like prudes, going beyond that practical premise, which is wrongheaded.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on March 13, 2017, 04:43:16 PM
There are several things going on here.

1st and foremost is the invasion of privacy. The brass needs to land on that squarely. It's a separate issue than whether a member of the military is pictured somewhere on the internet naked.

If naked photos of the military are against policy the decision is easy. If the code of military conduct says to not post these types of photos, then they shouldn't be doing it and should expect to pay a penalty.

If a soldier's naked photo is posted without permission, the person doing the posted needs to be punished, not the subject of the posting.

It is true that the prevailing cultural bias has seeped into the military code, that is to be expected. They have to function within that culture. Is it a form of prudery. Yep! But the military is not a plaything for some activist. It has a specific job to do that has nothing to do with cultural activism.

Whoever surreptitiously posted the photos shouldn't be allowed to do it again or to up their childish game. They too are members of the military and I wouldn't want a buffoon like that in charge of critical operations.

This really is a rather simple problem to be solved with the simplicity of schoolyard rules since the behaviors seem to fit that situation.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on March 13, 2017, 05:16:44 PM
rant

The "pictures of women" tempest in a teapot in the US military demonstrates what is wrong with the whole PC shtick being imposed on our military.   

First and most important, young men and women are forever horny around each other, and away from each other.  The US Navy has a big problem with pregnant females on ships.  300 years ago the British navy only had females for hire on board, and the term "son of a gun" was coined for the children born from getting pregnant on the gun deck. 

Before the new "integrated" military started pretending that women should be soldiers rather than at home birthing the next generation, the whole US Marine Corps had a mythical girlfriend named "Suzie Rottencrotch" who was taught to recruits in basic training.  Sailors "talked like sailors" and soldiers frequented off base houses that always sprang up around military installations.   Every barrack and ship had "pin up" photos of females. 

Then came the new liberal PC military.  Women are supposed to be "equal" to men and are recruited in large numbers.  Part of that is connected to the liberal/feminist campaign to exterminate white people by not breeding.  Send women off to men's jobs instead of bearing and raising children.   Of course they blame men for any sexual conduct or even conversation between men and women. 

Not long ago a study by the US Army found that so many soldiers were afraid of being accused of "sexual harassment" that they would not talk near any of the new female "soldiers."   So little conversation was happening that combat effectiveness was compromised.

Another study found that women in uniform are more likely to be soliciting sexual favors from the men than vice versa.  A couple decades ago the US Navy flyers had an annual conference called "Tail Hook."  Several females got gang banged at the party and it created a huge scandal.  Of course they blamed the men, not the female participants.  Females were "victims." 

Once again females are "victims."   This time its the babe who posed naked and got their photos shared.  The photos are not on ships or barrack lockers but rather on an OFF SITE web application, a soldier's social media. 

The PC police tell us that women are "abused" and "demeaned" by being seen naked, when the polar opposite is true.  The women are being respected and admired, desired and applauded.   That's why women pose for photos. 

From a nudist perspective, I see nothing at all wrong with naked photos of female or male members of the military.   Photos of human bodies is way more respectful of the person than a psychotic demand that the person be covered up and never seen.  Outlawing images of people is disrespectful and obscene. 

The big problem is caused by the seriously wrong demand to have "equal" females among the men.  It compromises the whole purpose of our military.  The second problem is their blaming of young men (but not women) for normal human activity. 

End rant.

Bob


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on March 17, 2017, 05:53:38 PM
Ran across this on another site. I was encouraged by the recent date. A current article instead of something dredged out of the archives of some site.

https://www.thestar.com/life/relationships/2017/03/07/do-naturists-have-the-right-idea-raising-kids-around-social-nudity.html

We all know the benefits we see from our activities, but making this knowledge available to everyone still is the main problem. Decoupling everyday nudity from sex remains the biggest obstacle.

Between extremes on the right AND the left with anti-nudity agendas along with Hollywood's irrational exuberance in selling their product by using the sex sells method, it is a hard slog.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on March 23, 2017, 09:45:44 PM

Quote from: eyesup
Decoupling everyday nudity from sex remains the biggest obstacle.
Ain't it just!  This goes to the heart of the matter of almost all the prurient treatment of nakedness that we see all around us.  Obsessive modesty and outrage are almost as common as naked pictures themselves.  Why can't we all grow up!  Naturists have - why is that such a relatively rare thing?


On Bob's last post, I can't argue with any of it really especially
Quote
Photos of human bodies is way more respectful of the person than a psychotic demand that the person be covered up and never seen.
How true. 


I would opine though, Bob,  that you cant generalise to that extent.  The spectrum of 'consequences' of people having their photos taken nude, must, like all human things, be wider.  For instance, in the matter of consent, there is a spectrum - some people don't care and are willing to show themselves nude and quite happily appear nude in  media like feature films or are happy to be shown in very revealing circumstances e.g. internet porn (which, like it or not, is the world's biggest repository of (apparently) unashamed nudity).  In the middle ground, there are those unashamed of nudity but only in some sort of restricted circumstances, e.g. domestically, requiring a level of privacy.  For some at the other end of the spectrum nudity is anathema and never even see themselves naked!


So in the military, there are probably women soldiers that happily act as pin ups when photographed by their male peers.  There are probably others, that might be pressured and coerced but are robust enough not to mind, although in such circumstances my guess is that they would often contract to retain some privacy and might be rightfully offended if their pictures escape (onto, say, the internet) from the limited viewership that was the original agreement.  And I will also surmise there are those who are under unfair peer pressure, being unable to make their own stand and choice not to be nude in pictures, where even the apparently consensual taking of nude photos is, underneath, deeply unsettling and from which they might rightly claim to have been abused, however unaware the abuser may have been of their real feelings.  To that latter group I might more cynically say to them 'get over it' - what harm can a picture do?  But I won't go that far - I can feel sympathy and regret that there are those people that get thus exploited even though from a naturist or more permissive standpoint it is hard to see why such nude exposure should be an issue (which I think is Bob's point).  In such cases one can only hope that some sort of fair justice prevails. 


To an extent this is an argument linked to our previous discussion of who is the arbiter of offence in the trial of someone arrested for being publicly naked and accused by a single observer who claims to be offended (sometimes one only amongst many who don't).  The law and society should take the initial premise that nudity is not wrong or offensive therefore first ask why the person was offended (by something that the law judges inoffensive) - and the burden of proof should be on the complainant not the defendant.  Most nudity law does seem to adopt this stance but the implementation of it by mostly people prejudiced against nudity, means that the principle of emancipation that the law in fact allows does not in fact get applied fairly (as in the case of several of Steve Gough's arrests and trails). 


So in the case of this non consensual publication of pictures - it is surely up to the offended to prove why harm is done.  That's not to say that such publication is right or acceptable.  However, it's equally unacceptable to decide law solely from one individual's feelings and to judge solely on their definition of whether something is offensive or harmful. 


Incidentally, I already read the article Duane found.  I subscribe to several naturist and nudist streams on Flipboard.  Very good source - you don't have to search, someone finds the stuff for you! :)


John


PS, I just fell asleep over writing the above and realise it is a bit boring!!!!  But this forum is a bastion of free speech so I'm exercising my right not to be coerced to erase the boring bit!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on March 31, 2017, 07:40:16 AM
Snort!!  Errr, sorryy John. I fell asleep reading your post.

Could you retype it please? :)

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on March 31, 2017, 06:35:42 PM
So in the case of this non consensual publication of pictures - it is surely up to the offended to prove why harm is done.


Some years ago I looked up copyright law vs. Internet copies.   According to US copyright law, everything someone writes (such as the paragraph above) is immediately covered by copyright law, and may not be copied or reproduced (like this) without specific permission, except for "fair use" which is limited to a short quote (like this). 

Enforcement of copyright for Internet violations requires that you prove financial loss (money) from the repeated copying.  Most people are not in the business of selling their writing for money, and suffer no money loss if it is copied.  Since then the people who write laws have tried to tighten things up but still it is very hard to prove any actual damages from being seen in a photo. 

There is an old quote about damages, "It neither empties my purse nor breaks my arm," and therefore no harm is done. 

At worst an unwanted sharing of a non-commercial photo could cause some mild embarrassment.  Not a major crime.  Should not be punished.   
   

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on April 01, 2017, 03:13:22 PM
Unless, of course, the republication causes harm to the purse.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on April 01, 2017, 11:09:14 PM
Inside One Female Photographer’s Mission To Normalize The Nude Male Body

From Huffington Post.   It may belong on ART, but Huff&Puff is officially a "news" site.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bare-men-photos_us_58da847ae4b0928a6b781601?cg206p95r640xm9529
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 03, 2017, 09:46:01 PM
Quote from: Bob
There is an old quote about damages, "It neither empties my purse nor breaks my arm," and therefore no harm is done.

From Thomas Jefferson regarding his views on religion. But it certainly applies elsewhere.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on April 04, 2017, 01:51:59 AM
Unless, of course, the republication causes harm to the purse.

Yes, John.  A professional model, actor, or personality is in the business of SELLING his or her image and could suffer financial loss from unauthorized (unpaid) copying or even viewing. 

Most people are not in business of selling our images and cannot show that we suffer any financial loss from unauthorized viewing.   In addition, the only reason some people become embarrassed by naked photos being seen is because our world generally calls our species "obscene" and wants us to hide ourselves from view.  The cure for that embarrassment is to be seen more, not less.   

John gets published naked so often by choice that he is beyond being embarrassed by naked photos.  Me too. So its me.  So what?

Have a very nice April.
 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 06, 2017, 04:41:46 PM
We all view the world from the center of our own little universe.

All these issues about what is or isn't appropriate are generated by the confusion caused by realizing everyone doesn't think the way we do and not understanding why.  :o

All we have to do is stop doing that! Pretty simple.  ;D
Problem solved! ;)

Duane

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on April 07, 2017, 08:07:35 PM

Quote from: eyesup
Snort!!  Errr, sorryy John. I fell asleep reading your post.
Could you retype it please? (http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
Duane


No!


John
Title: Weight Watchers publishes NUDE ISSUE of their magazine.
Post by: Bob Knows on April 14, 2017, 06:49:06 PM
"As many as three quarters of women dislike their bodies, according to a new survey coinciding with the release of Weight Watchers magazine's first "Naked Issue"."


http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/weight-watchers-naked-issue-nudity-body-image-survey-women-a7167726.html?platform=hootsuite (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/weight-watchers-naked-issue-nudity-body-image-survey-women-a7167726.html?platform=hootsuite)


https://www.weightwatchers.com/templates/marketing/marketing_utool_1col.aspx?pageid=1200731 (https://www.weightwatchers.com/templates/marketing/marketing_utool_1col.aspx?pageid=1200731)
Title: Cambridge naked bike ride
Post by: Bob Knows on April 14, 2017, 08:07:20 PM
Cambridge Naked Bike Ride  June 2017

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/ (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 14, 2017, 11:37:17 PM
I finally found it, after passing through all of the horrible news in Cambridgeshire. Police out of control, tasers, murder, people, anarchist, opiates, tagging, etc. It comes across as a horrid place to live, unless you like books.

So, 100 last year with 30% documented in the video....Bless their hearts.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on April 17, 2017, 06:00:36 PM

I finally found it, after passing through all of the horrible news in Cambridgeshire. Police out of control, tasers, murder, people, anarchist, opiates, tagging, etc. It comes across as a horrid place to live, unless you like books.

So, 100 last year with 30% documented in the video....Bless their hearts.
Jbee


Cambridge is a very benign area of the UK, JBee! 


John
Title: Tits for Trump
Post by: Bob Knows on May 07, 2017, 01:49:29 AM
Its hard to make this stuff up.

New political campaign:   Tits for Trump

http://freedomlibertynews.com/warning-explicit-content-instagram-account-starts-tits-trump-campaign/
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 08, 2017, 07:00:14 PM
I have given up trying to understand anything I see these days. It's like walking through the sideshows at a carnival.

With all the social media insanity I have realized that Andy Warhol couldn't have imagined how easy it would become to prove his prediction. Most of what I read about appears to be no more than a simple attempt at attention grabbing.

Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

At least the Bard allowed us and hour!  ;)
Nothing of substance.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 10, 2017, 07:46:57 PM
Not a nude story, but representative (er, a senator ;)) of acceptance of natural human activities.
See here. (http://news.sky.com/story/senator-larissa-waters-breastfeeds-in-parliament-in-australian-milestone-moment-10870345)

I have an issue here that is unrelated to seeing more skin.
It has to do with what is more important, her career or her family. But, not much information about her circumstances.

I suppose it is progress of a kind.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 14, 2017, 08:02:37 AM
I bumped into this as I was signing into my yahoo account. Probably an example of tracking my interests. I have noticed that the news is a very anti-Trump slant, my personal political trait, as they divide and conquer, polarize and profit.

Anyway, here is Michael Jackson's daughter, now a model, putting out a very classic pro naturist spiel. It is good to see a celebrity standing up for naturism and using her standing to promote body freedom.

On the other hand, here she is placing nearly nude photos on her web scene, getting attention like those celebrities that get stolen self nude pics or paparazzi pics published, feign shock and violation on their way to the bankable. Well, honest intention or exploitation what she has done is good and I wish her career well. Michael and Priscilla Presley's daughter were nude in a music video in the eighties. Maybe a chip off the 'ol block?

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/paris-jackson-defends-her-love-nudity-actually-beautiful-165313617--abc-news-celebrities.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

I'm gonna look up her Facebook page and see if I can thank her and encourage her.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nudewalker on May 15, 2017, 02:03:33 AM
And I wonder how much Yahoo is going to make once they sell our tendencies to the highest bidder? Not only the news and interests but I've noticed shopping also.

but Paris Jackson puts out a positive spiel and read the comments and see where everyone who commented thinks it's just to get her name out there. It becomes a double edged sword when anyone famous promotes nudity. It seems to me anyway that any entertainment name automatically becomes an attention seeking stunt.

It's nice to have an endorsement however I feel that any attempt to make nudity normal is going to have to be a grass roots effort. Once the novelty of the naked bike rides and skinny dip records fall away perhaps we can join in a movement to promote the lifestyle.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on May 15, 2017, 04:21:29 AM
I suppose my response is predictable, but do the same thing and you get the same result. Despite what she says, this is babes and boobs all over again. It's show business, "show" meaning something on display, "business" meaning someone hopes to make money.

This kind of nonsense actually hurts us. If it seems as if the only people getting naked are the ones who fit the standard Playboy model demographic, then that's what everyone will keep associating nudity with. Why wouldn't they? Sure, she spouts some words that might sound like a naturist program, but as a model she proposes to get paid for her appearance, not her philosophy.

By the way, in the linked picture Paris Jackson isn't even naked, only topless, and even at that, she's posed so as to hide her breasts.  But part of the babes and boobs mystique is that the body is simultaneously revealed and concealed. Keep the audience wanting more, that's show biz.
Title: Duck Tamp
Post by: Bob Knows on May 15, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
Not quite naked, but it gets the young people going in the right direction of little or nothing to hide.

Black Tape and that's all. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4506748/Is-black-tape-trend-risqu-yet.html
Title: Another nude parade in San Francisco.
Post by: Bob Knows on May 15, 2017, 04:05:16 PM
Nudists in San Francisco keep demonstrating against their anti-nude ordinance.  Public demonstrations and parade events are excepted to their prohibition of nudity so the SF nudists keep organizing naked public protests and parades.   This is their latest

http://www.mynakedtruth.tv/2017/05/nude-summer-of-love-parade-saturday-may-20th-10-am-jane-warner-plaza/

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 17, 2017, 07:41:41 PM
Considering this is a posed shot I was wondering, Is she smoking or just chose a pose that looks that way?

If she, or anyone for that matter, furthers the everyday acceptance of the nude body it’s ok by me. I continue to try and keep my philosophy separate from what I see coming from others. The different positions will always have conflicts.

Having said that I will say that I will not worship my body or anyone else’s. Maybe she doesn’t understand the meaning of the word. I will continue to not reject the attempts by others to push the belief that the human body is not worthless. If she helps in this even a little, so be it. I try to keep my personal preferences out of what others are doing . .

. . . even though it’s difficult.

i.e.
Quote
Jackson said modeling became cathartic for her.

"I've had self-esteem issues for a really, really long time," she told the magazine. "But there's a moment when I'm modeling where I forget about my self-esteem issues and focus on what the photographer's telling me -- and I feel pretty."

 “modeling became cathartic”,  “forgetting self-esteem” and “feeling pretty” ?
I get confused sometimes when people talk.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 17, 2017, 07:55:46 PM
Bob!

That could be a debilitating depilatory!  :D

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 19, 2017, 07:07:05 PM
Quote from: the article
We were invited to think and feel globally, to wake up from the nightmare of corporate greed and exploitation, to heal our emotional wounds . .
Exuberance in a cause can lead to seeing connections everywhere. We cannot survive in today's world as our ancestors did. Life is more complicated now. An economy is necessary. But yes there are always those that take advantage but that is not evil. Just life.

Quote
. . celebrate the body freedom that the hippie movement spread across America and the world.
Not all of us were or are hippies. Many ideas came out of that period, some good, some downright loopy. As a witness of the events, I am able to pick and choose which ideas I consider valid. The concept of rejecting clothes as another means of social and cultural classification is one I do embrace.
This one (http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/index.php?topic=948.msg8063#msg8063), however I do not agree with. Promoting a method of behavioral analysis for your own use is sort of creepy.

Quote
Let’s shed our clothes. let’s shed our inhibitions, our self doubt and self hate. Let’s wake up to the love, to the flame that burns within our hearts. . . . Let’s spread love, body freedom and sexual liberation!
Self doubt is normal and can be tamed as a tool for better decision making. Self hate is taught and should be rejected.

Lack of all inhibitions and control is usually described in one word, anarchy. If you prefer that, go start your own country. Not everyone seeks no responsibility. The idea of absolute freedom requires that someone provide what you need to fulfill your desire to be completely self-indulgent. e.g. An economy. You know, those greedy bas. . .ds that are oppressing you.

Some good things came out of the 60's. Not every idea was a good one. Pick and choose the ones that are the most comfortable but be careful what you reject as flawed. Sometimes things are fine and just need a little tweaking.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 19, 2017, 07:53:07 PM
Quote Eyesup just above: "Lack of all inhibitions and control is usually described in one word, anarchy. If you prefer that, go start your own country. Not everyone seeks no responsibility. The idea of absolute freedom requires that someone provide what you need to fulfill your desire to be completely self-indulgent. e.g. An economy. You know, those greedy bas. . .ds that are oppressing you"

Although I get your jist, I think that this interpretation is a narrow and absolutist definition of anarchy and its practice. Also, perhaps it's getting a tad too politically opinionated for here. Communities exist in several forms within this and other countries throughout history in a lacks order order, even some in anarchy. Another country should not be needed, especially here. This sounds kinda like a "Love it or Leave It" bumper sticker.

One may be better to assume that human nature is more likely to do the right thing, instead of be just a selfish child. One may even apply faith in the godness of others, or even in a belief in Godly universal direction.

 It may be added that this place is not an anarchistic state, however, there are those in control which find justification to behave like selfish children in essence, affecting the lives of millions adversely. These are the result of the environmental influence of an anti-anarchistic state.

 Jus throwing in some perspective on the relativity of a universe that as only one absolute, which is that there are no absolutes. Jus sayin'.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on May 21, 2017, 11:49:54 PM

Returning to duct tape attire, it must be agony getting it off again!  Mind you, most of the (pvc) duct tape I've encountered won't stick to sweaty skin or comes off with perspiration.  Gaffa tape is more adhesive but possibly injurious to remove!  Do they really stick duct tape between their legs and over their nipples?  Seems awfully dangerous.  I bet the tapes are doctored or not adhesive and are stuck on with a few dods of theatrical glue for the photos.
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 22, 2017, 05:07:54 PM
It looked shiny like electrical tape, or some of tat stuff with a backing. The fibers in duct tape threads would stretch, but also shred.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 22, 2017, 06:38:50 PM
Quote from: Jbee
. . . perhaps it's getting a tad too politically opinionated for here.
You are right. Apologies for being sloppy and careless.

Quote
One may even apply faith in the godness of others, or even in a belief in Godly universal direction.
Again, you are right, Jbee. I may not believe the same as another's philosophy or faith but that does not mean they aren’t dedicated or committed.

As I was preparing for my Sunday morning, a scripture caught my attention. It made me think of my remark which you rightly called me to task on. It reminded me how we can do damage by word or action to those we love, are responsible for and to those we don’t even know. It is a violence of the spirit. To crush the spirit or soul is just as debilitating as physical violence. It is an offense to God.

I appreciate your reminder. I also realize that it came from someone who thought it important to point that out to me.
I will keep this in mind the next time I feel compelled to opine out of hand.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 22, 2017, 07:32:59 PM
Every photo is with the same guy. I guess he must be behind it.
That's a lot of effort to go to.

Skip down to the comments and see the one about #5. Some good comments about why people do things like this.

Oh, well!

Duane
Title: Nudes occupy beach in Lincolnshire
Post by: Bob Knows on June 06, 2017, 08:14:09 PM

"You're not allowed there."   Police taking anti-body stand. 


http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/you-8217-re-not-allowed-there-nudists-spotted-on-lincolnshire-beach/story-30366311-detail/story.html
Title: ‘feral looking’ man roaming the Welsh wilderness
Post by: Bob Knows on June 06, 2017, 08:26:35 PM
OK,  One of you guys has been spotted by a textile rambler.

A rambler who was left open-mouthed after stumbling across a 'feral-looking' naked man on an afternoon stroll said it was 'the weirdest afternoon walk ever'.

Nick Pentecost was exploring Preseli Hills in Pembrokeshire on Saturday, when he suddenly spotted a figure on the horizon.

The astonished visitor described the nude man as feral but calm and said he appeared to be hunched over as he wandered around aimlessly.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4566084/Rambler-photographs-naked-feral-looking-man-Wales.html#ixzz4jFREZpmc
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 06, 2017, 08:54:17 PM
Okay, the seeming call to alarm story was bizarre. A benign act of a few being posted in the paper as a warning. The assumption that there si something to be concerned about, BUT that second article is just....

A "feral" man. It read like a spotting of Bigfoot. How weird could it be? This guy actually sat and watched it, like he had seen a prehistoric animal walking out of the past, or a ghost. He actually sat and stared, fascinated for TWENTY-FIVE minutes! He took pictures. This was an amazing life jarring experience? What a boring life this reporter has had, AND it actually got in the paper? What a boring rag that one must be.

When he was spotted, he scurried away like a squirrel and looked to see if the naked guy was FOLLOWING HIM!?!?!

It is very difficult to fathom that there are people out there like this, who have never conceived of being naturally naked in nature.

So, the guy was looking down, hunched over. Maybe watching footing because he was barefoot? Lost his cache of clothing?
Amazing reaction.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 06, 2017, 10:53:26 PM
Merriam Webster defines,
feral: adjective
1:  of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast, feral teeth, feral instincts
2 a :  not domesticated or cultivated, wild feral animals
   b :  having escaped from domestication and become wild, feral cats

This person doesn’t know the meaning of the word. Seeing a naked wanderer doesn’t mean feral. An observation beyond spotting someone at a distance would be in order.

Plus, as Jbee suggests, watching their footsteps makes sense considering the landscape in the photo, pretty rocky. I’ve walked on rocky terrain so I can understand their posture. This is one of my reasons for my screen name, “eyesup”. I once bonked into a limb of a tree because I was watching my feet and not what was in front of me.

He’s afraid of a man in the distance that is displaying no aggressive posture that I can see. If he’s so timid maybe he shouldn’t be out in the wide world all alone.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 06, 2017, 11:33:23 PM
Perhaps the observer ran back to his, or her mothers hand, or perhaps this observer is dimwitted? Perhaps the "feral" look is an insulting description? Perhaps that old mindset, or perspective, of being "civilized" is still lurking in polite society in Britain? Perhaps the observer doesn't believe that a human is an animal and could be naturally naked?

The article IS just soo weird!
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on June 07, 2017, 10:13:24 AM
caption under the pic says 25 minutes , text says 25 secs

this is normal for the daily wail/fail often  seems to be written by  illiterate teenagers and proof read by baboons

headline  writers often dont seem to have read the articles .

not really sure why i bother looking at it every day :)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 07, 2017, 05:39:02 PM
Lucky for the hiker, it’s a lousy picture. ;)

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 07, 2017, 08:54:55 PM
I dunno exactly if this really is a free range kinda thing, but they did get naked. They were diminishing the importance of being behind clothing, somethings are more important. But they made an exclamation of being naked and associated it with violence. I wonder if this was interpreted as stripping as akin to rape? Well, that's Argentina. There has certainly been a change in younger women in South America in the last 40 years. This wouldn't have happened back in the day, because they would shame themselves and be less virgin and not at all potential respectable wives. Uppity women were merely putas.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/02/naked-feminists-stage-screaming-protest-for-violence-against-women-6678932/

Good for body freedom, or bad?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 07, 2017, 10:50:33 PM
This isn't about body freedom just a protest against rape wouldn't be.
It's about violence against those less able to defend themselves.

Sometimes a slap in the face is needed to get attention. This isn't violence.
It's ANGER! If not addressed it will turn that way.

Duane


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 10, 2017, 03:46:20 PM

I found this shared on Facebook.   It seems that going naked on the beach may become more popular in the UK. 


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/809763/bank-holiday-weekend-weather-uk-nude-beach-sun-heatwave
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on June 10, 2017, 03:50:43 PM

I found this shared on Facebook.   It seems that going naked on the beach may become more popular in the UK. 


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/809763/bank-holiday-weekend-weather-uk-nude-beach-sun-heatwave
I notice that the first picture in Brighton is not of the naturist beach, which is the other side of the pier.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 10, 2017, 05:36:13 PM
Judging from some the reports here from our cohorts on the Isles, the coming heat wave will be a blessing.

Hopefully not too hot though!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 10, 2017, 06:44:50 PM
A blessing filled with opportunities. Strike while the iron is hot and pepper this place with stories and anecdotes, Please.

Imagine the earth filled with brown buttocks....umm...yea, that would be good, not pink. Be careful out there in your glee.
Explain to your textile brethren how much better that you sleep, the lack of discomfort  and sweltering, the perfection of naked, as they complain about their suffering, and convert the suckers. Get the wives out, convert, enjoy everyday like a holiday. Spanish beaches have come to you!

Tell us about it, brag, please.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 10, 2017, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: Jbee
. . . filled with brown buttocks....umm...yea, that would be good . .
Toasted buns!  ;)

Yes! Good luck is when opportunity meets preparation! Be ready!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 21, 2017, 03:21:10 AM
This article from last Sept. announces a, Parc au Naturel (http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/paris-nudist-park/index.html) in Paris.
I tried to find any updates on it but every one I found was the exact same text as this article.
Most of them on a websites were listed in the url under ‘weird-news’.

Lac Daumesnil (http://www.simplysaratravel.com/home/park-it-in-paris-lac-daumesnil-in-bois-de-vincennes) is mentioned as the city park selected for he site.
Couldn’t find any updates so I don’t know where it stands today.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 21, 2017, 07:46:55 AM
Revive your high school French or feed it to an online translation system!

https://www.apnel.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?id=304&p=3

Maybe this--
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnel.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fid%3D304%26p%3D3&edit-text=
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on June 21, 2017, 06:52:53 PM
hot weather and people flocking to the  glastonbury festival

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/person-videoed-walking-naked-down-124614


also on their site was another article about the legalities of naked sunbathing.

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/can-sunbathe-naked-back-garden-122704
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 21, 2017, 08:41:27 PM
Quote from: JohnP
. . . feed it to an online translation system!
Thanks John!
I should have thought of that.

Last entry was 3 weeks ago. That’s current. It looks like the usual. Ideas are floated and voted then shelved or ignored. At least they are discussing the issues in allowing public nudity in metropolitan areas. There will always be those looking to take advantage and abuse the system.

I wonder if the recent changes because the national elections will have any effect at the municipal levels?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 21, 2017, 08:41:56 PM
They saw fit to pixilate the trash receptacle and stroller?  That’s the spirit! Protect us from even the slightest bit of offense. Maybe this will soon become normal and we’ll no more see the pixilates or the dreaded black squares or stripes.

On the other article it occurred to me, in the law it states:
Quote
In the absence of any sexual context and in relation to nudity where the person has no intention to cause alarm or distress it will normally be appropriate to take no action unless members of the public were actually caused harassment, alarm or distress (as opposed to considering the likelihood of this).

Does harassment of the sunbather by the offended count? If it’s not illegal when there is no intent to offend, does the person that is offended, out of their own convictions, have to behave? Does this work in both situations?

Hmmm?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on June 21, 2017, 10:52:38 PM
the pixilated red thing isnt a trash bin , its a royal mail post box


anyway i found the clip whilst looking for this one

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/health-warning-after-terrifying-blaze-127650

the fire was about half a mile north east of us.   this latest report is a total over reaction , the wind was blowing the thick black smoke to the west over open country side , the village of somerton is 2 miles to the south east
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 22, 2017, 01:23:53 AM
Is pixilating on a Royal Mail Post Box an offense?

I sounds offensive. :) :D ;D

Duane
Title: Ban all Clothes: -- The Guardian
Post by: Bob Knows on June 24, 2017, 08:40:32 PM
Beyond burkinis: why science suggests ALL clothes should be banned

Scenes of French police enforcing a burkini ban have shocked many, but the anger is misplaced. The fact is that ALL clothes are awful and should be banned

https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2016/aug/25/beyond-burkinis-why-science-suggests-all-clothes-should-be-banned#img-1


This is a bit tongue in cheek apparently saying that banning burkinis is silly, but he makes some good points about clothes in general. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 24, 2017, 10:28:15 PM
Wouldn't all here say that she is just scratching the surface?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 26, 2017, 09:36:56 PM
I’m not following the reference, Jbee. I haven't had enough coffee this morning!
Are you talking about the burkini ban?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2017, 11:40:52 PM
I refer to the article suggesting banning of all clothes. She is less of an authority than those that frequent this forum and what she has put forth is just scratching the surface.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 27, 2017, 01:19:27 AM
Ahhh! Gotcha!
And yes, I agree!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 07, 2017, 03:11:58 PM
ESPN nude "BODY" issue 2017.   This kind of publicity is all good for acceptance of naked human bodies. 


http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/19742921/espn-body-issue-2017?utm_content=buffer55255&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#!athletes_uswomensnationalhockeyteam
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on July 07, 2017, 04:27:22 PM
No, no, no.  This kind of publicity is terrible for acceptance of naked human bodies. It sends the message that if you want to be naked, be female, young and shapely, exactly the kind of image that Hugh Hefner would be giving us. Can we really not get past that?

It's consistently notable that when it's a commercial operation, the babes are put on display, but when it's people using their own images to spread the naturist message, we're all middle-aged men. That's what we have to get past in order to achieve acceptance of naked human bodies.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 07, 2017, 06:05:28 PM
These aren't playboy material. They are not fashion model material. They are healthy and active bodies. They are confident enough to be displayed as they are. That's all good.

Now, some other bodies healthy and active would also be good, for balance and inclusiveness.

I like the two messages together. These gals aren't sculpted. They don't look that much different than many other women and even some of my older women friends, who take care of themselves generally. Better this than dressed up and painted into something completely artificial. The do have makeup and dyed hair.

I see it as a step in the right direction, but how DO we get older men and women who are healthy out there? And how do we get those less healthy out there? Getting less healthy is only half of the message. It is good nudity and body acceptance, but the message is unhealthy is good and normal, too. Well, we are as we are. How do we get those with the proud battle wounds of womanhood out there with their stretch marks and saggies?

Even on the internet, there are normal people sending in pics of themselves and mostly women, but they are all trying to look sexy, not just nude. At this point, we can't have it all, but at least being seen naked is getting to be a more acceptable norm, even when censored with arms and legs in a sports mag.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on July 07, 2017, 07:28:50 PM

As I was saying elsewhere, we need a campaign.


Such positive presentation of nudity as the ESPN site is great.  I can't agree with JohnP.
It's all part of the journey.  These images of athletes with the body beautiful don't need to appear nude and they don't during their sport.  Therefore issue is there to display and appreciate the body athletic and usually therefore beautiful.  The fact is that we are emancipated enough to accept these images as non sexual and that they are there, at least in part, to celebrate that nudity is OK.. Thereby naturism has scored a point.


The old men's selfies and the portrayal of the normal not so perfect body are other aspects, equally valid, not exclusive of each other, John.


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 07, 2017, 08:36:38 PM
Some of these athletic bodies are bizarre, having been tailored to their sport. The are unusual and not necessarily an ideal. The body builders don't get the girls as much as the regular guy. They do have a tool to get women to bed them. We all need to be seen in all of our different types.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 08, 2017, 12:44:07 AM
I don’t see how laying down rules about who is allowed or excluded, what is allowed or excluded can be an advantage. That route leads to a committees that make arbitrary determinations. We approve of those people, but not them.

Everyone has a different view of what nudism/naturism means and each can be allowed. It’s a big tent.

In the spirit of Voltaire, who was reportedly to have said:
    “I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.”
we can certainly all be nude for our own reasons without separating into different factions.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on July 08, 2017, 03:07:42 PM
It's true that the commercial marketplace does impose its rules, or at least people think it does, that customers will be attracted to the conventional "attractive" image of a young woman. Erotic elements can be added to the extent the market tolerates them, but it has to be a woman, or women, being shown. Notice how rarely women and men are shown together! That's because if there's a man in the picture, he's seen as being already in possession of the woman, destroying the idea that the consumer can step in and claim the prize.

That picture is the same old stuff it's always been. I truly wish that naturists would be more willing to point out which nude images fit into the standard pattern, and which ones (if we can find any!) are offering something different. Because isn't naturism supposed to be different from the textile outlook?

This is an area where we could really use some input from women, which I hope would push us toward a more inclusive style of imagery. But that doesn't seem likely.
Title: Naked man at Walmart 'thought it would be funny for him to be naked'
Post by: Bob Knows on July 09, 2017, 04:30:50 PM

Arizona police state comes down hard on naked man shopping at Wal Mart.

Shame on the police.  That's totally unreasonable. 

Since when does someone else's butthurt, "offended" feelings, become a crime? 


AZ law:  "....and the defendant is reckless about whether the other person, as a reasonable person, would be offended or alarmed by the act."

The article says the man thought it would be funny.  Is that being reckless about offending people? 


http://www.newschannel5.com/news/national/tempe-police-naked-man-inside-wal-mart-arrested
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on July 09, 2017, 06:39:31 PM
glad to see the media dont bother with proper english


"Officers located 49-year-old Robert Kanoff across the street completely naked, only wearing shoes. "





"completely naked apart from wearing shoes" would be correct.

the uk press is just as bad.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 10, 2017, 12:52:11 AM
Americans don't bother with proper English, even in print. That wouldn't be American, except in Academia.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on July 10, 2017, 02:12:07 AM
What’s wrong with just saying, ‘wearing only a pair of shoes”? Saying one thing and then having to insert all sorts of qualifiers in order for it to make sense is just so much verbal baggage.

Quote
Police say Kanoff admitted to ingesting drugs earlier and said he was dropped off by two people who "thought it would be funny for him to be naked."
If he was dropped off naked by two people playing a joke, why the avalanche of charges?

Clearly, there is more to the story. As usual, there is something missing in the report.
I lament for the old days when facts were checked and verified before going to print/chirp/twerp or whatever it is passes for reporting these days.

I won’t even refer to it as journalism.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 10, 2017, 02:18:21 PM
"Officers located 49-year-old Robert Kanoff across the street completely naked, only wearing shoes. "


Doesn't sound like Mr. Kanoff was going around trying to offend people.  Just minding his own business. 

AZ law:  "....and the defendant is reckless about whether the other person, as a reasonable person, would be offended or alarmed by the act."


The AZ law does not outright ban public nudity.  It also has to have some "act" that a "reasonable person" would be offended by.   How is shopping with a choice of no clothes an offensive "act."  It sounds very ordinary to me.   Mr. Kanoff also finished his shopping and headed across the street before cops arrived.  Not an "act" of someone who is deliberately "acting" to offend anyone.

Bad arrest. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on July 10, 2017, 02:32:48 PM
Unfortunately, the default stance of many non-naturists, particularly those in positions f authority, is that nakedness is "wrong"and "distressing", so it's assumed that someone in the vicinity will always be alarmed or offended. On that basis it must be assumed that some going naked would also know someone else would be offended and was therefore being reckless. QED. Or Catch 22

Peter
Title: Naked Protest
Post by: Bob Knows on July 10, 2017, 04:22:21 PM

Naked protester takes stand against skinny mannequins as she climbs in window of busy shopping centre

Wearing only a wig borrowed from one of the figures and a pair of socks, her stunt in Dorothy Perkins lasted about 15 minutes.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/naked-protester-takes-stand-against-10757437

Social media comments mostly applauded her and bashed cops for arresting her.  Media reported only negative comments. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Davie on July 10, 2017, 04:45:46 PM
There may be more than meets the eye here. Note she was passed into the care of medical professionals. It sounds as if she was taken into care rather than being arrested. She did however have  point.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on July 10, 2017, 06:40:17 PM
"Officers located 49-year-old Robert Kanoff across the street completely naked, only wearing shoes. "


Doesn't sound like Mr. Kanoff was going around trying to offend people.  Just minding his own business. 

AZ law:  "....and the defendant is reckless about whether the other person, as a reasonable person, would be offended or alarmed by the act."


The AZ law does not outright ban public nudity.  It also has to have some "act" that a "reasonable person" would be offended by.   How is shopping with a choice of no clothes an offensive "act."  It sounds very ordinary to me.   Mr. Kanoff also finished his shopping and headed across the street before cops arrived.  Not an "act" of someone who is deliberately "acting" to offend anyone.

Bad arrest.


press report states he took drugs earlier and was charged with pocession of dangerous drugs,

press emphasise the naked bit for headlines


imho not enough info to lable it a bad arrest
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 10, 2017, 06:52:18 PM
Note she was passed into the care of medical professionals. It sounds as if she was taken into care rather than being arrested.Davie  8)


Being naked is "crazy" by definition in the minds of some people.   Send her to a shrink.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on July 17, 2017, 10:10:46 PM

Quote
Officers located 49-year-old Robert Kanoff across the street completely naked, only wearing shoes.


I agree - that is a particularly dreadful sentence irrespective of the low standard of US journalism.  You can only sink so far!
The construction of that short sentence leaves it completely ambiguous as to whether Kanoff, the police or the street were naked.  I suggest


"Robert Kanoff,(49), naked apart from shoes, was located across the street by police."


Much better!


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 31, 2017, 05:33:09 PM
Naked women panhandling in NY City. 

Idiotic city policy refuses to enforce laws when illegal immigrants are criminals. 

Cops say hands are tied in arresting unruly 'desnudas' naked female panhandlers 'because most are illegal immigrants'

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/31/desnudas-naked-female-panhandlers-harass-times-square-tourists.html


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 31, 2017, 07:36:05 PM
They are attempting to regulate in order to enforce boundaries to their behavior. They want to have a license for these people, but many would not register because they are illegals, so that kind of solution doesn't work. Well, if you fail to display any license like any business, then you should get a fine. But they can't track illegals to fine them. Then, you have a politician afraid to exert the illegal status of the law. Yea, that is messed up, but how many are actually illegal, disturbing the peace, etc. They are not actually naked. Filming violations is a solution, but I'll bet that it is expensive to arrest and prosecute. NY is a quagmire.

The headline is misleading, there are other solutions. The Post and Fox News are influenced by Rupert Murdock control and little more than Republican propaganda rags, racist and exploitative.

That mayor is a democrat, whose weakness is the non-white more poor vote, which he is catering to. New York is a crap hole in so many ways, not just politically. I don't think that it has much to do with Iowa, but it is being used for a political agenda and our naturist rights are being drug into the mud by this exploitative crap. It should not be published as a national issue, it is a local NY problem. It is therefore a media use to sell, to exploit and create political agenda as propaganda.

Whatever one's take toward the political end of this, not everyone here would agree with that, but with that garbage in mind, I do believe that it is bad public relations for our sensibilities and move toward body freedom. In New York, 7 women courageously fought in court for equal protection under the law, then these obnoxious New Yorker street scum are using that good intention to exploit and harass to make a buck. It spits all over those crusaders efforts, our humanity and I enjoyed watching that bitch get arrested. She assaulted the cop. She pushed the cop and wasn't arrested for that!?! The politicians are not enforcing the law. Perhaps it is a wider agenda to restrict publicly displayed breast and the powers are letting it get out of hand toward boiling point. The Times Square authority quoted doesn't like the body painting artist there. Maybe he wants to end it all. They "cleaned up" Times Square, and that is policy still, his policy.

This is all about body exploitation, by media, by law, by politicians, by street scum.
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 01, 2017, 07:29:24 PM
I have been to new York only once. It was fun. We may go again.

I would not want to live there.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 01, 2017, 08:54:46 PM
I was given the tour by a pal. I flew back for three Grateful Dead shows at Madison Square Garden. It is awesome in the canyons of skyscrapers for a few minutes. After that, it is a city. There are too many rude, hyped up obnoxious people there. The language is raw, the accents crude, the pace unhealthy. We have New Yorkers come out here. They are usually the nice ones, but it takes a while to get them to calm down and lay back.

I stayed in New Jersey and after the shows, we took a long drive into the New England fall leave's displays.

Yep, my pal took us to a dingy old basement. There was a private sex club down in there. Very sleezey and kinky. Interesting, but he enjoyed it more than me. The bars and restaurants were uncomfortable and felt again, hyped up. Food...fabulous.

I'm a nature boy. NYC, dirty pigeon crap, polluted smells, keep off the grass, crowds and gum wrappers, just ain't nature. AND where does a being get naked? If a woman legally pulls off her top, a gang of crude catcallers assault her like...Trump on a movie starlet.

Previous to that, I was with friends while insulated in their limo, dropped off at clubs, bribed our way in, sat up all night on drugs in an apartment. They spend a lot of money to have that empty lifestyle in NYC. Nope, getting naked with drunken women in an apartment while partying isn't naturism.

My apologies to any New Yorkers who seem to like it there.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 01, 2017, 09:29:41 PM
Quote from: Jbee
Food...fabulous.
Ditto. In fact ditto again.
We didn’t eat anywhere the food wasn’t great. Always tried to find anything not a chain restaurant and it was worth the effort. Still wouldn’t want to live there though.

We enjoyed poking around historical stuff and museums. Went to an off Broadway show in an old building where we had to follow several corridors to find it. And that was entertaining. Not the flashy Times Square thing.

Rode mass transit the whole time. Didn't have to drive anywhere!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Safebare on August 02, 2017, 07:55:37 PM
I was in NYC to work the WTC cleanup. It was strange in so many ways for this native Texan. Rode a bicycle up to, around Central Park & took transit to a nude swim on Long Island. I got to drive a 'Gator' around South Manhattan in the middle of the night  Mostly spent my time working with the contractors and first responders on the site. It was a life changing experience.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 03, 2017, 10:20:20 AM
It strikes me, from these descriptions of NY, that all such cities tend to exaggerate the worst characteristics of their country.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 03, 2017, 05:57:09 PM
We were there in 2010 and went down to Battery Park. They were about halfway finished with the new building. All that debris was gone and the open pit had new construction in it.

You are right, Safebare.
Even at nine years afterward with all the scars erased, it was still gut wrenching to look at.

Ok, I’ll bite! :D I know what a gator is in the south, what’s a gator in NYC.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 03, 2017, 05:58:07 PM
I have lived in Dallas-Ft. Worth, Houston, Denver and now Las Vegas and have visited most of the largest cities in the States. Above a population of about 2 million there is little difference, outside of culture, among them.

Major cities, no matter the country, are the country in microcosm. It has all the good and the bad from all over. It’s not so much that it’s exaggerated, you just see it all juxtaposed in one spot.

I suppose it’s like that everywhere.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 03, 2017, 08:49:40 PM
Eyesup, I'd probably agree and say that about every place that I've been, but NYC and much surrounding the area is the exception. I go to other cities and when I find the hustle, hassle and crude, they are so often attached to the unmistakable accents of a displaced New Yorker. There are nice New Yorkers, I'm not painting that broad of a stroke, but there are soo many obnoxious personalities perverted by the culture there.

For a time, I used to meet and greet tourists daily from all over the world. Then there were these NYC people, who had never really seen stars, thinking nature is a golfcourse or a crowded beach in Jersey, a piece of dirt to exploit, worshiping a buck, thinking themselves better, or critiquing and dismissing their servers like servants peons pawns in their employ instead of fellow humans, and the sexism. There is that unmistakable dog eat dog hustle that so evidently has trapped them. These people know no different. It takes some time to mellow them out. They are generally just folks that have been subjected to a crappy place, system and other's abuse. They step off of a plane and there is a definitive culture shock, like people from no other place. Many recognize this in themselves and I could watch them change. It gave me faith in human nature how many were good friendly folks, in-spite of the bizarre jaded environment that they live in. They would respond to me being genuine and nice, like the sight of mountains and clean air, something for them that they are not used to. There is something generally hard about NYC that lacks the personable and genteel. 
Jbee
 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Safebare on August 04, 2017, 12:59:25 AM
Duane, I was referring to a John Deere Gator, utility vehicle.
The experience I had there was definitely not typical. But I am aware of the 'in your face' culture that permeates NYC residents. My physical therapist is from Long Island and has a bit of that arrogance in her approach to clients. We talked about it in our first session. I almost switched to another therapist. But we are breaking down some of those barriers and it helps both of us grow a bit.
My favorite niece is living in NYC now. I have challenged her on the negative traits that have cropped up. She says it is for self preservation, but I explain that what changes a person cannot simultaneously preserve a self. But then, I am still in Texas.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 04, 2017, 10:18:23 AM
our nearest city is wells, pop about 11000, its about 15 miles north , i guess ive been in the city centre twice in the last 10 years.

next nearest is exeter (30 miles) where my daughter went to uni and youngest son is going in the autumn , so have been there a bit more often in recent years.

the big city 35 miles to the north is bristol ... i can honestly say ive never been into the city centre.

its about 20 years since i last visited london, we went for a few days when our eldest had a german exchange student over ,  i cant forsee any reason to revisit.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 04, 2017, 10:26:19 AM
There is a very suspicious implication that your life is good, ric.
Jbee ;) :D
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on August 04, 2017, 11:06:44 AM
http://camdennewjournal.com/article/man-who-suffered-body-obsession-on-nudist-colony-cycling-tour

Apart from use of the C (colony) word ....
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 04, 2017, 04:01:02 PM
There was a time when half the film industry in the US focused on NYC.   The TV industry still does.  Everything I've seen tells me I never want to go anywhere near that place.

One time I was visiting a zoo in Atlanta.  Through the crowd we heard a very loud, obnoxious, and boorish family coming toward us.  Shrill voices saying disgusting things.   Yep, tourists from NYC.

I actually had to get off a plane in NYC once and drive out of to their upstate mountains.  And once I had to change planes at the NYC airport.  Both were negative experiences.  Changing planes ended us up in a union work slowdown that caused thousands of passengers to suffer and delayed our return home by a day.  They lied to us about the union problem, I read about it when I finally escaped and got home.

I guess NYC people think its the greatest place.  They can keep it. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 04, 2017, 04:50:54 PM
we changed planes in newark bound for florida about 15 years ago.

immigration and passport control was a shambles... 2/3 of the desks were for us citizens , when they were cleared the staff pissed off leaving the rest of the world to wait in line for another couple of hours. in general all the airprt staff seemed to have attitude problems.  guess where we arnt flying to ever again.     florida was ok once we got there.

flying back we were given seats scattered all over the plane,  check in said staff on the plane will sort out changing seats, once we got on the plane staff said wed have to go back to checkin and book on a later flight. 
we just sat next to the kids and swopped seats with the passenger who was supposed to be sat there,  same thing happened on the transatlantic flight... tickets scattered all over the plane...bloody thing was less than half full... our conclusion was all us airline staff must be on noxious substances, or just plain ignorant. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 04, 2017, 05:39:38 PM
I think the seat scattering trick is to persuade people to pay for the on-line seat selection service which many airlines have introduced.
I think Ryanair is one of them.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 04, 2017, 05:43:18 PM
Airlines treat people like shit.   I quit using their abysmal abusive service.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 04, 2017, 09:05:26 PM
Airlines treat people like shit.   I quit using their abysmal abusive service.

Bob
Unfortunately it's not practical to drive to the Canary Islands. :o :o :o >:(
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 04, 2017, 11:53:17 PM
It sometimes depends on where and when I'm flying how nice the flight is. Some European can be very nice. Air France always had better food and served those small wines. Newer Arabian airlines are trying harder to get a better foothold. The rest, more and more, are treating people like cattle. The smile professionally and..."Get along, lil' dawgy."

I remember way back, when they'd give those clousenet  airline pins to the kids. They were very polite, but the prop-planes took forever, had hard vinyl seats, no entertainment, the those ancient TV dinners of turkey and stuffing in tin...the good 'ol days. Everybody dressed up like Sunday, to elevate the level of class, because those that couldn't afford it dressed less prosperous. They took the train and then we have to discuss the change there, too.

Ever take a Pullman across country, naked? Banging around in a Pullman can be fun. People walking those tight halls in their jammies. Balancing act to get to the dinning car with its weird unique smell and thick white table cloths and heavy silverware.
Europe always outdid the US on trains, but for the dining car and Pullmans, back in the day. Now, I hear they're very nice and quick. Can you get free range on them?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 04, 2017, 11:55:43 PM
Airlines treat people like shit.   I quit using their abysmal abusive service.

Bob
Unfortunately it's not practical to drive to the Canary Islands. :o :o :o >:(
There are slow boats and nude cabin spaces...but I'd rather spend a couple of extra days on and a Canary island than an old boat.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 05, 2017, 03:34:40 AM
Airlines treat people like shit.   I quit using their abysmal abusive service.

Bob
Unfortunately it's not practical to drive to the Canary Islands. :o :o :o >:(


You could, perhaps, change your destination.   There are plenty of CO places to choose from.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 05, 2017, 10:09:42 AM
if you want winter sun from the uk , the canaries are a 4 hour flight due south ,  no time zones and jet lag to worry about,  flights and accomodation are cheap and pleantyful ,  if you avoid the school holiday rip offs.

add in they are small islands , european standards and low crime .supermarkets are same as we get in uk etc.. in short theyre familiar we feel comfortable and relaxed.   its a no brainer really

anywhere warm in europe is a flight ... or ferry and days driving
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 05, 2017, 12:02:26 PM
if you want winter sun from the uk , the canaries are a 4 hour flight due south ,  no time zones and jet lag to worry about,  flights and accomodation are cheap and pleantyful ,  if you avoid the school holiday rip offs.

add in they are small islands , european standards and low crime .supermarkets are same as we get in uk etc.. in short theyre familiar we feel comfortable and relaxed.   its a no brainer really

anywhere warm in europe is a flight ... or ferry and days driving
That's what I was about to say.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 05, 2017, 03:01:14 PM
if you want winter sun from the uk , the canaries are a 4 hour flight due south ,  no time zones and jet lag to worry about,  flights and accomodation are cheap and pleantyful ,  if you avoid the school holiday rip offs.

add in they are small islands , european standards and low crime .supermarkets are same as we get in uk etc.. in short theyre familiar we feel comfortable and relaxed.   its a no brainer really

anywhere warm in europe is a flight ... or ferry and days driving

If you're willing to put up with the cattle car abuse on airlines then have a wonderful time.


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 05, 2017, 07:56:25 PM
we normally fly to southern spain/portugal or canaries with either ryan air or easyjet and on rare occasions with tour operators airlines tomson or thomas cook , its no frills but for a few hours no big deal. the only time ive flown been treated like cattle and had such a bad experience to swear never to repeat was with american airlines from bristol to newark and on to florida.  . pleanty of places to go in the world where the natives welcome you whilst they try to get your money
even marrakesh was a pleasanter experience than newark.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 06, 2017, 12:01:03 AM
Quote from: Jbee
. . . but there are soo many obnoxious personalities perverted by the culture there.
I’ve known some REAL jerks from Texas! But maybe you are on to something if you look at it as a per capita of jerks per 1000 people. I’ve been to destination resorts and when encountering New Yorkers I would agree, but I also have friends here from there that are normal as me.

Errr . . ., wait, I go hiking naked out in the middle of the desert. Hmmmm!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 06, 2017, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: Safebare
. . . I am aware of the 'in your face' culture that permeates NYC residents . . .
I heard it explained by the comedian David Brenner (of Philly) back in the ‘70’s once on Johnny Carson. He had just returned from doing his show in the south. The deep south. He was struck by the differences.

His explanation was:
In the south, you will walk up to the clerk in a store. Any store, and after they finish with the previous customer, they smile, focus 100% of their attention on you and say, “Good morning! How may I help you”.

In New York, the clerk will finish up, glare at you as though you are the last person they wanted to see and say, “So, whad’da ya want?”

He said it wasn’t that they were angry it just was the way everyone is in NYC. I didn’t see that when I was there, but I probably didn’t go the places that David Brenner hung out.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 06, 2017, 12:03:18 AM
Quote from: Safebare
She says it is for self preservation, but I explain that what changes a person cannot simultaneously preserve a self.
I have been out of Texas since 1986.  :(  I have managed to keep what I value of my upbringing and to see that many of my parochial experiences were just a starting point in life. Living in Houston started that. Back in the 70-80’s there people from all over the world there and I worked with many of them.

A willingness to see the point of view others is also a good skill to develop. But you have to know where your roots are oriented so you know which direction you are looking.

Quote
But then, I am still in Texas.
But then as you know, Bliss is in Texas!  And New Mexico!  ;D

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 06, 2017, 12:04:09 AM
Quote from: JOhnGw
Unfortunately it's not practical to drive to the Canary Islands.
Au contraire mon fraire!

No waiting in line with the Panther (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2812387/From-car-boat-15-seconds-155-000-Panther-car-hit-waves-45mph-s-18-month-waiting-list-buy-one.html) and/or one of these (http://yachtpals.com/boat-car-9158), but there is the problem of buying gas en route. :D Maybe you could tow a tank of fuel. It’s only 1600 miles from Plymouth.

I’ve always wanted to buy a rail pass and travel from the west coast to Chicago in a sleeper. Take my time and spend as much time as I wanted  to wherever I stop. I know they have those nudecation flights so I wonder if the rail lines would do something similar.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 06, 2017, 08:46:31 AM
155k will buy a lot of plane tickets... just looking at popping over to southern spain to see the wifes brother in october..45 quid by easyjet and 66 to come back... thats morning flights.... could go cheaper but means arriving in the middle of the night.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 07, 2017, 12:03:24 AM

Quote from: ric
i can honestly say ive never been into the city centre


Amazing, Ric.  There must be few people in our great nation as rural as you!  In fact only 2 others!
It's sort of attractive and becoming that you neither yearn for or feel the need to use the cities round about.  As one who was brought up in a city and lived in cities all my life (London being one) up to 2 years ago, I can't quite see how one can do without them for certain things and to visit them for entertainment and culture is good. But as commented earlier cities are a bit of a chore to live in.


I heartily agree with Bob:
Quote
Airlines treat people like shit.   ....abysmal abusive service.
  Going on holiday and returning is always horrible because of the need to use an airline.


The other observation I drew from the discussion about New York versus the places you live was that from your posts one can see that the USA is by no means homogenous.  We Brits, from TV etc get rather an impression that Americans and their environs are less variable than the reality. You guys live almost in different countries to all intents and purposes, tied together by McDonalds, Aerosol cheese, Hershey Bars and Walmart!


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 07, 2017, 06:46:32 PM
Those distinctions are slowly fading. Someone once told me I didn’t sound like I was from Texas. I wasn’t sure how to respond because I am from Texas. I like going from region to region when traveling and seeing how we differ. Regional accents are disappearing but I prefer variety, especially when the current lingua franca is so chock full of acronyms and abbreviations.

Quote from: John
. . . tied together by McDonalds, Aerosol cheese, Hershey Bars and Walmart!
I’m sorry but I stand outside your list of commonalities (with one exception).

McDonalds - never unless it’s an emergency (but never Joke In-The Box)
Aerosol cheese - only if I’ve run out of adhesive
Hershey Bars - the only one I will cop to (chocolate is one of the food groups? Riiiight?  ;D)
Walmart - only if I cannot, and I mean cannot, find what I want anywhere else

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 07, 2017, 06:49:30 PM
I heartily agree with Bob:
Quote
Airlines treat people like shit.   ....abysmal abusive service.
  Going on holiday and returning is always horrible because of the need to use an airline.

John

So, John, I guess you and Bob won’t be opening that travel agency? ;D
The promotional challenges for the ad agency would be just too steep!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 08, 2017, 08:17:20 AM
Quote from: Jbee
. . . but there are soo many obnoxious personalities perverted by the culture there.
I’ve known some REAL jerks from Texas! But maybe you are on to something if you look at it as a per capita of jerks per 1000 people. I’ve been to destination resorts and when encountering New Yorkers I would agree, but I also have friends here from there that are normal as me.

Errr . . ., wait, I go hiking naked out in the middle of the desert. Hmmmm!

Duane
Is it weird to go hiking in the desert? If doing such a weird thing, then not doing it nude to handle the heat is the very weird thing.

JUs' spent two days roaming Redington Pass. Naked is the only way. But I did see how a wet sundress will put a chill on at 101F degrees.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 08, 2017, 08:30:11 AM


Quote from: John
. . . tied together by McDonalds, Aerosol cheese, Hershey Bars and Walmart!
I’m sorry but I stand outside your list of commonalities (with one exception).

McDonalds - never unless it’s an emergency (but never Joke In-The Box)
Aerosol cheese - only if I’ve run out of adhesive
Hershey Bars - the only one I will cop to (chocolate is one of the food groups? Riiiight?  ;D)
Walmart - only if I cannot, and I mean cannot, find what I want anywhere else

Duane
[/quote]
My choices, too. But that DF goes to Trader Joe's for dark chocolate and I nibble on hers.

The big boxes have taken over. There are so few entities controlling, a handful, what we have to buy, to eat, to read and to watch. It is all very much controlled for many millions. There are millions of us that reject these traps and abuses, however.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 10, 2017, 05:54:37 AM
Quote from: jbee
Is it weird to go hiking in the desert? If doing such a weird thing, then not doing it nude to handle the heat is the very weird thing.
Maybe I should have completed the sentence by saying, “They’re the ones not normal”! (for not hiking naked)

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 10, 2017, 05:55:20 AM
Dark chocolate is actually good for you. It doesn’t have all the sugar in it and it’s loaded with antioxidants (http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20030827/dark-chocolate-is-healthy-chocolate#1), which are good in the right proportion. Seeee! ;D

We prefer to look for and frequent local eateries. They have more fresh made food than the warehouse food served in national chains. And the food tastes better.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 10, 2017, 10:53:31 AM
Dark 70% something chocolate may have anti-oxidants, etc., but man does that stuff rot my teeth.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 10, 2017, 07:16:26 PM
Los Vegas PD kills naked man.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/naked-man-shot-back-police/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/naked-man-shot-back-police/)

Las Vegas, NV — A graphic body camera video was just released showing a Las Vegas Police Officer shoot a naked man in the back outside of a church last weekend. Police say they were left with no other options after their K9 attacked an officer instead of the naked man.

According to police, 25-year-old Jason David Funke was threatening to kill himself in front of Life Springs Christian Church last Saturday. Funke was armed, however, according to police, he complied with officer commands to drop his gun, raise his hands, and walk toward police.

As he was complying, Funke did as he was instructed and walked toward a group of officers — naked with his hands up. When Funke got within ten feet of the officers, instead of walking up to the clearly unarmed and surrendering man, police attempted to sic the K9 on him.

Instead of immediately going after Funke, however, the dog bit the officer’s belt which appeared to startle Funke, causing him to turn and run instead of getting on the ground like officers were demanding.

At this point, officer Mark Hatten fired one round with a rifle into the back of Funke, dropping him immediately. Funke was over 20 feet from the gun.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 14, 2017, 08:37:41 PM
It's true that the commercial marketplace does impose its rules, or at least people think it does, that customers will be attracted to the conventional "attractive" image of a young woman. Erotic elements can be added to the extent the market tolerates them, but it has to be a woman, or women, being shown. Notice how rarely women and men are shown together! That's because if there's a man in the picture, he's seen as being already in possession of the woman, destroying the idea that the consumer can step in and claim the prize.

That picture is the same old stuff it's always been. I truly wish that naturists would be more willing to point out which nude images fit into the standard pattern, and which ones (if we can find any!) are offering something different. Because isn't naturism supposed to be different from the textile outlook?

This is an area where we could really use some input from women, which I hope would push us toward a more inclusive style of imagery. But that doesn't seem likely.

I know these replies are for an old post. I found these in my directory and had neglected to post them.

Part I
Quote from: JohnP
It's true that the commercial marketplace does impose its rules, or at least people think it does, that customers will be attracted to the conventional "attractive" image of a young woman. Erotic elements can be added to the extent the market tolerates them, but it has to be a woman, or women, being shown. Notice how rarely women and men are shown together! That's because if there's a man in the picture, he's seen as being already in possession of the woman, destroying the idea that the consumer can step in and claim the prize.
{emphases are mine}

If the image of an everyday man or woman would sell the product, that’s what would get used. It’s about advertising. I hear the comment about how this or that group are manipulating the market. That’s what sales is, to get more people to choose your product. If using sexy images does the trick, that’s what gets used. It doesn’t have anything to do with the sexy looking person. It has to do with what’s going on in the head of the buyer.

John, I don’t disagree with anything you say about the sexy images of women, or men for that matter. But sexy images of men are also used to manipulate the women. Since men control a larger percentage of the wealth, for now, you are going to see more sexy women images. It’s all about what’s going on in the head of the person who’s buying.

My wife was in sales, as a seller, a sales manager and a market manager. She was/is VERY good at it. She was constantly at or near the top of her company’s performance rankings. She always says a good salesman 1st has to find out what the buyer wants, and then find a way to give them what they want at a price they are willing to bear. I always found this to be bothersome because she knows a truth about people. You can manipulate them if you know what they want. It’s sort of disturbing and annoying. But that’s just the way the market works!

All this talk about which images are good or bad doesn’t seem important as long as the brain of the buyer remains stuck in a stereotype that Madison Ave. understands all too well. Referring to the man-woman relations implied by the images you see in advertising. What’s going on in the brain is where the problem is, not the images. The images are merely a reflection.

That’s a tougher nut to crack. Change that and the market will spin differently.
Cross fingers, click heels!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 14, 2017, 08:38:21 PM
Part II
Quote from: JohnP
That picture is the same old stuff it's always been. I truly wish that naturists would be more willing to point out which nude images fit into the standard pattern, and which ones (if we can find any!) are offering something different. Because isn't naturism supposed to be different from the textile outlook?

The stock images of the svelte men and women can be replaced, but as long as the mindset remains the same, all your doing is a dog and pony show. It’s nothing more than a sales pitch.

And the new images we prefer cannot be provided as long as those images are illegal, whether paper or realtime. Unfortunately sexy and erotic advertising is accepted and isn’t likely to change anytime soon.
The stereotypes are firmly in place.

Naturism should not be presented merely as a look. An appearance. Anyone genuinely naturist will prefer to be naked, but sometimes isn’t for legal or practical reasons. It’s like being a professional sports figure. They don’t go around dressed in their particular sport uniform. Sometimes they dress differently for equally valid reasons.

But I agree that, in general, most people do not think naturist when they see casual nudity. They think what they have been taught to think. Sex and eroticism. But, if the norm were everyday people in all of the advertising, the art purists would be complaining that we see no renderings of the ideal.

It’s a heavy boulder to push up the hill!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 14, 2017, 08:39:03 PM
Part III
Quote from: JohnP
This is an area where we could really use some input from women, which I hope would push us toward a more inclusive style of imagery. But that doesn't seem likely.
I agree wholeheartedly!
Occasionally a woman will show up on this site, but not stick around.
I have no new insights here. Sorry!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 14, 2017, 08:50:09 PM
Quote from: Bob
Los Vegas PD kills naked man.
Bob, the article didn’t say he was killed. The link you provided was posted by someone using information culled from other sources. The local newspaper had the story (https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/armed-naked-man-shot-by-las-vegas-police-in-southeast-valley/) in a very brief form on Saturday a week ago. The same paper had a follow-up (https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/naked-man-shot-by-las-vegas-police-is-local-poker-player/) with more information.

The police were responding to a man who was tripping on LSD, marijuana and alcohol who, in the middle of his episode appears, carrying a weapon, at a church that happens to have children attending classes. He was shot in the shoulder which rendered him unable to do any harm. In an unknown situation the police use standard procedures until new information becomes available.

Could they have taken him without shooting him? Maybe, but PCP addicts are known to require multiple officers to subdue them and they didn’t know what he was on. This writer appears to expect the police to be omnipotent and omniscient.

I have reached the point that I barely believe anything I read online. The newspaper article, that I linked above, prompted me to check this out. Instant responses on blogs or twerp accounts to unverified sources result in bad and wrong information, which is almost as bad as no information.

I doubt seriously that the man was high on three different substances because of events out of his control. He did that to himself. If you want to do that, go ahead, but stay at home. Don’t go out and expect the public and the court system to baby-sit you.

I don’t have an issue holding the police accountable when they get it wrong, but flash judgements do harm also. The man was wounded, not killed and the nudity was a byproduct of his delirium and probably not born out of a naturist lifestyle.

Carrying a weapon near a school while high on hallucinogens is gonna get you arrested, period.
Not very bright.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 15, 2017, 01:03:13 AM

The stock images of the svelte men and women can be replaced, but as long as the mindset remains the same, all your doing is a dog and pony show. It’s nothing more than a sales pitch.

And the new images we prefer cannot be provided as long as those images are illegal, whether paper or realtime. Unfortunately sexy and erotic advertising is accepted and isn’t likely to change anytime soon.
The stereotypes are firmly in place.
Duane


I have been frequenting tumblr, twitter, and a few others lately.   I do it to post selfies of my old man self.   I have noticed that there are many naked photos posted ever day far outside the stereotype "sexy" young model image.  Some on-line groups such as "sexy senior ladies" and Indian Nudes post nudes daily.  Many individuals also post their own photos.  There are some advertisements for porn pages with young model stereotype photos, but they do not dominate my feed on tumblr or twitter.  A couple of lesser known social sites "MeWe" and Similar Worlds also feature a lot of ordinary people nudes. 

The porn advertisers and Big commercial media may still stick with svelte models, but they are beginning to be crowed out by ordinary people posting their own photos.  Ordinary people are sharing nude photos the way Facebook people post photos of their dinner.  Its happening, and we all need to encourage it.

Bob
 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 15, 2017, 02:34:42 AM
The dog got loose, he bolted and was shot from behind within two seconds, a blink of an eye. He was shot for that. The shooting wasn't necessary, justified, or reasonable. Obviously he was not in a sane condition and just as obviously he was not armed. Nice to know that he isn't dead. That was very poor police work and they should get strong repercussions for their piss poor performance. Also, a lawsuit.

PCP can affect certain personalities, just as much as any fear response. Still, They had no idea what was up with this unarmed naked man. Because you think that he may be difficult to apprehend isn't enough to just shoot him down. That means that any big guy under arrest should be shot, like Michael Brown. Use armed force as the very last choice. Everybody is innocent until proven guilty and there is no crime with the penalty being to be shot. Crazy people resisting arrest isn't a crime warranting being shot. These cops acted like their response was reasonable and procedural. I find that very scary. We are paying for armed lethal thugs, when we need officers that value life and will protect us, not just make their arrests easier by committing murder, assault, and shootings.

That guy who stopped me for a traffic violation the other night was more than reasonable. He was polite, and helpful. He was there to protect, eliminate problems, and prevent problems. He wasn't there to punish, or to find something wrong just to make his reports look good. The result was that I got my act in order and a fine wasn't necessary. That is law that I can respect and support.
Jbee
Title: Nudewatch.
Post by: Bob Knows on August 19, 2017, 03:51:15 PM
Titillation from The Sun

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/3810118/springwatch-presenter-kate-humble-admits-she-loves-stripping-off-and-wants-the-bbc-to-launch-a-nude-tv-show/

TV presenter Kate Humble wants the BBC to launch a naked nature show called Nude Watch.

Kate, best known for hosting Springwatch,  loves stripping off at her French holiday home and “hardly ever” wears clothes there.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 19, 2017, 07:47:43 PM
She pointed out her opinion that the European mainland looked at Britain as kinda goofy about clothes. I wonder what they think of the extreme weirdness of the Americas and more specifically USA.

Anyway, good for her. I'd love to know such a show is on the air with such good values being presented.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 19, 2017, 09:58:57 PM
She pointed out her opinion that the European mainland looked at Britain as kinda goofy about clothes. I wonder what they think of the extreme weirdness of the Americas and more specifically USA.

Anyway, good for her. I'd love to know such a show is on the air with such good values being presented.
Jbee
If Kate gets her way it will have very good values very well presented.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 20, 2017, 02:24:53 AM
She's living with a producer. Maybe it gets produced, if she is that big about it.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 22, 2017, 08:41:17 PM
Not sure exactly what she has in mind. I guess this is one of those ideas that you float to see whether it catches on. She didn’t have any specifics listed as far as program ideas.

Quote from: article
. . . she wonders why the there hasn't been a naked nature show named 'Nude Watch'
As in “Birdwatching”? Let’s watch to see what those nude people are up to. If you have normal boring people minding their own business only they’re naked, I guess success would be the eventual canceling of the show because everyone thinks it’s too normal and boring.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 26, 2017, 04:41:07 PM
this  www.aol.co.uk/travel/2016/04/11/british-nudist-tourists-wanted-france/  appears to have caused some debate

www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/off-topic-chat/64511-british-tourists-wanted.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 26, 2017, 05:18:22 PM
Quote
naturists were "ecologically-minded folk" who preferred family breaks in their birthday suits, while nudists just stripped off to avoid tan lines and don't pick up litter.

At last we have a definition of the difference between "nudist" and "naturist." 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on August 27, 2017, 11:13:45 PM

I think the important thing about the Kate Humble article is that she freely and publicly talked about being a naturist.
So far she hasn't been vilified by social media or sacked by the BBC for it (as far as I know) so there's yet hope that her honesty and forwardness will make it easier for more people to share their naturism publicly and so notch up another small rung on the ladder of emancipation.


Typical tabloid bankrupt journalism btw, in that they include a totally irrelevant bit of interview about something unconnected.


John
Title: TV twats insult naked guy.
Post by: Bob Knows on August 29, 2017, 01:51:04 PM
'Which bit landed first?' Today's Lisa Wilkinson and Sylvia Jeffreys make VERY rude jokes during interview with naked skydiver... who is left looking very awkward by X-rated comments.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4831340/Lisa-Sylvia-rude-interview-skydiver.html#ixzz4r8zoNxPF

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 30, 2017, 12:11:29 AM
ric, maybe seeing naked vacations as an option will bring nudity to a more normal aspect in options when people are putting together their travel.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on August 30, 2017, 12:15:05 AM
Quote from: the article
They interview everyone from politicians to celebrities on their breakfast show.
Pardon me, but the spectrum from politician to celebrity is pretty small and I wouldn’t broadcast that as an achievement. These days the lines between those two groups are getting verrry blurry. And the combining of the two groups has dumbed down both.

The resulting on air chatter is an indicator of the composite IQ of the entire lot. Politician, celebrity and interviewer.

Duane
Title: Naked man in Spokane Park
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2017, 01:17:42 AM
This is my local area.  I notice a couple of parts to this story. 


Sounds like the guy got an OD on some meth or something.  That junk is bad news.


Spokane Police on shooting call switch gears to search for naked father of unattended children
Posted: Aug 30, 2017 12:42 PM PST
Updated: Aug 30, 2017 1:49 PM PST

Spokane Police officers responding to a shooting call at 9th and Perry Tuesday night were notified by a citizen of three young children who had been left unattended at their home for several hours.

Officers located the children and began to look for the parents. They learned that a report several hours earlier of a naked man running through Liberty Park might be the father of the children. A search began for the man with help from Spokane County's Air1 helicopter and the man was located near Altamont and I-90.

The man, who was determined to be the father of the children, was disoriented and dehydrated and taken to the hospital for treatment.

"This is just one of many calls where our officers are asked to care for the safety and well-being of members of our community, of all ages," Detective Ben Green said in a release. "By the end of this incident, patrol officers were able once again to ensure the safety of everyone involved."

http://www.khq.com/story/36254348/spokane-police-on-shooting-call-switch-gears-to-search-for-naked-father-of-unattended-children
Title: Bois de Vincennes that is being reserved for naked people
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2017, 05:17:25 AM
Paris opens a nudist reserve:

Parisian nudists will finally have a spot to take it all off – for the next few weeks at least – at a secluded zone in the Bois de Vincennes park east of the city.

“The creation of an area in the Bois de Vincennes where naturism will be authorised is part of our open-minded vision for the use of Parisian public spaces,” said Penelope Komites, a deputy mayor in charge of the city’s parks.
'Nobody runs for the hills': is Britain ready for everyday nudity?
Read more

The site, still considered an experiment, will be open from Thursday 31 August until 15 October, from 8am-7.30pm (0600-1730 GMT).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/31/revealed-paris-opens-first-nudist-park-no-voyeurs-allowed
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: ric on August 31, 2017, 09:52:56 AM
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4837188/Man-carry-sunbathing-nude-garden-school.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 31, 2017, 12:38:14 PM
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4837188/Man-carry-sunbathing-nude-garden-school.html
 (http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4837188/Man-carry-sunbathing-nude-garden-school.html)
This has been discussed at length in the British Naturism forum as a reasonably enlightened approach be the local authority and it didn't cost them anything extra to put frosted glass instead of clear glass in the relevant windows.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2017, 03:11:53 PM
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4837188/Man-carry-sunbathing-nude-garden-school.html
 (http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4837188/Man-carry-sunbathing-nude-garden-school.html)
This has been discussed at length in the British Naturism forum as a reasonably enlightened approach be the local authority and it didn't cost them anything extra to put frosted glass instead of clear glass in the relevant windows.


The work of children is learning all the things they will need to know to be functional adults. Children need learn about their own species, and thus about themselves, by passively observing a wide variety of adults engaged in a wide variety of normal human activity. Systematically  depriving children of an opportunity to observe adults of their own species is harmful and abusive to children.  Schools are designed and constructed to deliberately deprive children of education. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on August 31, 2017, 03:24:39 PM
In this case the council's reaction seems to have been threefold:
- To avoid potentially dangerous situations form children bunching on the staircase
- To respect the privacy of the naturist
- To avoid potential trouble from a litigous militant prude parent
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2017, 03:29:05 PM
In this case the council's reaction seems to have been threefold:
- To avoid potentially dangerous situations form children bunching on the staircase

Obviously everyone understands that children are desperate to learn and would bunch up if actual learning about their own species was available at the school.  Schools must prevent learning at all cost.


Quote
- To respect the privacy of the naturist
- To avoid potential trouble from a litigous militant prude parent

Government and prudes work hard to keep children in gilded cages (schools) and prevent them from learning.  It is harmful and abusive.  The school might be sued and punished if it allowed any actual learning about human biology. 

Bob


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on August 31, 2017, 06:59:06 PM
That place looks like a prison facility, just a bit of barbed wire.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on August 31, 2017, 11:14:29 PM
Bob, here's another of your neighbors, and this time the police don't seem to be on his side, even though this is comparatively in the big city:
https://patch.com/washington/bellevue/nude-man-tells-police-hes-too-hot-wear-clothes

"Multiple citizens called to report the naked man, and Bellevue police took him to jail on suspicion of exposure." Are they allowed to do that?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on August 31, 2017, 11:55:59 PM
Bob, here's another of your neighbors, and this time the police don't seem to be on his side, even though this is comparatively in the big city:
https://patch.com/washington/bellevue/nude-man-tells-police-hes-too-hot-wear-clothes

"Multiple citizens called to report the naked man, and Bellevue police took him to jail on suspicion of exposure." Are they allowed to do that?

Thanks for the link.

Yes. The public reacts to seeing humans because the public doesn't see humans.  Its like bare feet.  They tend to toss a bare foot person out of stores and restaurants because they falsely believe that bare feet must be illegal.  In the same manner, nobody ever sees naked humans so they falsely believe not being covered must be illegal.  I note that it took multiple citizen complaints before the bully police responded to this naked human.   Your article also mentions a jogging human in the next over town a few months ago who was not arrested.   Few or no complaints on that one apparently.

Cops are bullies who tend to react to complaints rather than law.  The police rule by fear and violence, not by law.   This time the cops arrested the man for "suspicion."   Despite the statement by the small town news reporter that "stripping down to your birthday suit is technically illegal," there is a long way between "suspicion" and charges filed in court.  Several court cases in Washington State have held that just being seen while human is "technically" legal.  They arrest him and "sentence" him to one night in jail without trial. It also costs a big lump of money to hire lawyers.  So he's jailed and fined even though within the law.  Police rule by fear and violence.

I haven't gone walking naked down main street in the city.  My public excursions are rural and brief. 

I'm really glad to read that some courageous men are pushing public exposure in my state.  Perhaps this is a test case to ask the court for a reprimand of the cops.  Or, perhaps they just want a case being tossed out after flagrant public exposure.  A couple years ago the Seattle police arrested 2 men at the WNBR.  That arrest got tossed out by the courts and they haven't harassed the WNBR since.  This may be another push by nudist advocates.   It will be interesting to follow.  If they toss the arrest out of court I may join him next time.

I'm disappointed that the guy wasn't barefoot.

I did a web search to see if I could find any other articles about this event.  My search came up with several other naked people arrested in Seattle or nearby communities. They were arrested for trespass, robbery, theft, drug use, and other crimes, but not charged for being naked. Street criminals are going naked while breaking into houses and doing crimes.  Nudity must be getting more popular.

Bob





Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 01, 2017, 06:50:17 PM
Quote from: JohnGw
. . . it didn't cost them anything extra to put frosted glass instead of clear glass in the relevant windows.
It’s a good example of how reasonable people can come up with a solution. His main concerns were the restriction he would see because he would have to stop his sunbathing and because of his concern of the children.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 01, 2017, 06:52:32 PM
Quote from: the article
On Wednesday, the local National Weather Service reported that the region had experienced the 63rd consecutive day where temperatures have been above 70 degrees, the third warmest July and August here on record.
I guess that argument flies in Seattle but in the summer here it seldom drops below 90º at night. Poor baby! To get any traction here he needs to get a little more inventive for his reasons to be naked. ;D

Whatever works, though!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 01, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
Bob, it seems to me that police eventually respond to multiple complaints just for show. Where they err is arresting instead of just trying to determine if there is a problem. If it’s illegal to be naked in the state, they cannot just ignore it. Their job is to enforce, not rule on or interpret the law. Granted some officers go too far, but if the law is bad, the citizens need get up off their fundament and get rid of it. That’s not the job of law enforcement.

Quote from: Bob
I'm disappointed that the guy wasn't barefoot.
I used to go barefoot while walking the dog in my neighborhood. I stopped when I started noticing how much broken glass and other sharp edged trash lazy people threw onto the streets and sidewalks.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 02, 2017, 06:31:23 AM
To get any traction here he needs to get a little more inventive for his reasons to be naked. ;D
Duane

To be convicted they have to show in court that he had an INTENTION of causing someone else to be alarmed or affronted.  He is now on police record of being naked because of hot weather.    It may be hard for the prosecution to prove he had that other intention.

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on September 10, 2017, 01:37:22 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/10/naturists-accused-naked-aggression-beach-made-famous-richard/

"We shall fight them on the beaches ..."?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 10, 2017, 03:34:20 PM
OMG!!!   Someone saw a human being!!!    They've been attacked.   Their life is over.  They are so butthurt they will never recover.   

Quote from: Textile beach user Curtis
“I’d ask everyone to respect the lifestyle choices of everyone else, whether they want to wear clothes or not. It’s a lovely beach and we want everyone to be able to use it without embarrassment.”

I'd ask Curtis to respect the lifestyle choices of everyone else.  Its a lovely beach and everyone wants to use it.   The sight of a human, one of his own species, does not break his arm or empty his purse.  No harm done.

I am glad to read that humans in the UK are daring to claim their right to be seen on a normal beach.  We are normal humans and we do not need to hide our species.



 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on September 11, 2017, 04:06:09 AM

The last line from the director:
"The director said in 2013: "We had to shoot on the most remote beach we could find. But when we got there it turns out that, for the exact same reason we had chosen it, so had all the nudists in Cornwall. The beach was full of naked people."

This led to some tactful camera work.

“The truth of the matter is, just to the left of camera was the hefty paunch of a naked man," said Curtis. “It's in the very nature of nudists for them not to mind being on camera.”"

What the f...kind of information is that. Where did that "fact" come from, and why is it presented as "fact?"
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 11, 2017, 05:53:00 AM
Sounds like there is something missing in that story. But that quote, “. . we want everyone to be able to use it without embarrassment”, is kind of odd.

As in, define “we” and “embarrassment”.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on September 11, 2017, 05:54:28 PM
Sounds like there is something missing in that story. But that quote, “. . we want everyone to be able to use it without embarrassment”, is kind of odd.

As in, define “we” and “embarrassment”.

Duane

WE -->  the confirmed textile people

Embarrassment  -->  butthurt from seeing a human. 

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on September 11, 2017, 09:34:12 PM
My point also, Bob.

The quote, “I’d ask everyone to respect the lifestyle choices of everyone else, whether they want to wear clothes or not. It’s a lovely beach and we want everyone to be able to use it without embarrassment”, says he wants everyone to be respect everyone but also that “embarrassment” must be avoided.

Well, his statement already has constraints on it.
Does that mean councelling is in order before anyone is allowed to use the beach?
Or simply that the status quo must be maintained.

Makes you wonder if that was a Freudian Slip or something else.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 04, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
My point also, Bob.

The quote, “I’d ask everyone to respect the lifestyle choices of everyone else, whether they want to wear clothes or not. It’s a lovely beach and we want everyone to be able to use it without embarrassment”, says he wants everyone to be respect everyone but also that “embarrassment” must be avoided.

Well, his statement already has constraints on it.
Does that mean councelling is in order before anyone is allowed to use the beach?
Or simply that the status quo must be maintained.

Makes you wonder if that was a Freudian Slip or something else.
Duane

When he says that he wants everyone to be allowed to use the beach, he means that nudists must not be allowed to use the beach because human bodies are not respected.   

Bob
Title: Family Friendly Nudist in GA, USA.
Post by: Bob Knows on October 04, 2017, 03:51:41 PM
VERY anti-nude article on CBS agenda news.  All propaganda, all the time. 

______________________________________________________________
http://www.cbs46.com/story/36515419/man-accused-of-hiking-without-clothes-on-calling-himself-family-friendly-nudist

SANDY SPRINGS, GA (CBS46) -

Police are searching for a man who could face an indecent exposure charge if he's caught. The man is accused of hiking on a public trail in Sandy Springs without any clothes on.

Morgan Falls Overlook Park is a beautiful, family-friendly park, but CBS46 discovered a police report accusing a man of doing something no one wants their children exposed to in public.

We learned that on Sept. 17, a woman called police saying a man was walking naked on the hiking trail. The woman says the man greeted her by saying he was just a family-friendly nudist.

An online definition says a nudist is a person who engages in the practice of going naked wherever possible. Georgia has at least three clothing optional resorts, but parents say this definitely isn't the place for a nudist.

"It's scary," says park visitor Chelsea Stoddard. "My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't want any naked guys running around here."

Read more: http://www.cbs46.com/story/36515419/man-accused-of-hiking-without-clothes-on-calling-himself-family-friendly-nudist#ixzz4uXyUQzHR

___________________________________________________________


Even on-line people calling themselves "Naturists" are joining in condemning the man for hiking naked.  With friends like this, nudism needs no enemies.  Some faux nudist organizations are the worst enemies of free range nudism. This Twitter Naturist Page for example.
https://twitter.com/TheNaturistPage


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on October 04, 2017, 11:57:15 PM
It's probably not illegal in Georgia, though I wonder what the police would do if this man could be identified. What Georgia law says (per Naturist Action Committee site) is "A person commits the offense of public indecency when he or she performs any of the following acts in a public place: (1) An act of sexual intercourse; (2) A lewd exposure of the sexual organs; (3) A lewd appearance in a state of partial or complete nudity".

Since the legislature saw fit to add the word "lewd" in there, they obviously thought there could be exposure or nudity that isn't lewd. And what's less lewd than a natural body out in the natural environment? Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I leave it with you.

I hope he didn't really say "family friendly". I really hate that kind of weasel words, and likewise their opposite, "adult". Say what you mean and be honest about it.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 05, 2017, 12:01:36 AM
I hope he didn't really say "family friendly". I really hate that kind of weasel words, and likewise their opposite, "adult". Say what you mean and be honest about it.


I see nothing about a naked man enjoying a walk in the woods that is not "family friendly."  He probably smiled and everything.  Humans are not inherently lewd or unfriendly. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 05, 2017, 02:17:40 AM
Yeah, John.
“Great day for a hike”, along with a smile would have been better.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 05, 2017, 02:19:02 AM
Two links to the same article. Was that intentional, Bob?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 05, 2017, 03:11:31 PM
Two links to the same article. Was that intentional, Bob?

Duane

Not really.  The web page inserted its own link when I copied part of the text. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 05, 2017, 03:14:15 PM
Yeah, John.
“Great day for a hike”, along with a smile would have been better.

Duane

I can imagine the conversation:

Him "Great day for a hike." smiling.

Them  "You are NAKED!   What about our children?"

Him, "No problem. I'm family friendly."  Smiles again.   

Them,  "Eeek!  You terrorist!" 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on October 05, 2017, 08:01:27 PM
Naturists have swarmed the comments section there! I even recognized one name that I've seen as an author in N magazine.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 05, 2017, 09:48:19 PM
From comments on above article:
Quote
Other reports on this I have read have stated he held the shorts up in front of him as the female hiker approached,

He held up shorts to cover himself.  As soon as a naked person tries to hide he is admitting and demonstrating that he is doing something wrong.  That is just asking to be reported for doing something wrong.   We all need to assert we are normal and have a fundamental human right to our own body.  We should not apologize or try to hide.  We should not admit that we are "wrong" for being naked because we are right. 

As another comment said, "Humans are not created with clothes on. Nude is the real normal state of the human body."   Do not hold up pants to show you are doing something wrong.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: dbwvogel on October 08, 2017, 10:55:40 PM
From comments on above article:
Quote
Other reports on this I have read have stated he held the shorts up in front of him as the female hiker approached,

He held up shorts to cover himself.  As soon as a naked person tries to hide he is admitting and demonstrating that he is doing something wrong....
This actually brings up a different concern for me. If the man held up something in front of himself, in order to avoid having his genitals seen by the approaching hikers, then the woman didn't actually see him naked (in a legal sense), but merely knew he was nude. Is knowing someone has been nude a cause for the police to find and arrest that person? Now that would be a real crime.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 10, 2017, 07:55:01 AM
Zackly, dbwvogel! If he was covering himself, then what law is being enforced? Could it be that it is a smaller public park, with lots of activity? Could it be a racist police answer to a call? The guy was black, Georgia, the south. Maybe it was a predominately white setting, and actually likely that it was. Maybe the fools in blue...excuse me, grey, still believe that those people just don't have any control of their impulses and need manhandled into their place. The woman that called, however, I think, was black and so was the reporter. The trail is a loop trail. The police were slow getting to the scene of "the crime." Maybe, it took a while to make the call to, chuckle, 911.

It isn't a very big spot, 950 acres, in a relatively populous area. It appears a walking trail, not a hiking trail. He might expect to risk alarm, with so many weird textiles and their children around. What is gnawing at me now, is how and why the TV news showed up. I guess that they just needed to make a story, and when there was no real news, they did just that, made a story out of nothing.

MAybe the reporter was there hiking naked, AND...nah, I digress. This incident is just very strange, but true.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on October 16, 2017, 10:49:52 PM

The news article is shockingly vacuous but the two views below offer an interesting dilemma i.e. Bob's - if he was covering up he was admitting wrongdoing - and dbwvogel's view - that having donned a cover up before or rapidly after being actually seen means that he was not naked and his nakedness was simply an inference by the complainant not the actuality.


What is one to do - brazen it out and claim that no harm or lewdness was intended or occurring or cover up and have a notional defence that the observer could not claim the defendant was naked.


It would be interesting if this case got to court and they used dbwvogel's defence.  If successful then ,whilst not fulfilling Bobs stern ideals, it would at least be a step forward in that even carrying a cover garment could be construed as an intention not to offend and thus complying with the law in such as the UK and Georgia where some intent or demonstration of lewdness or affright to observers is necessary to prove an offence not just being nude itself.


But they'll probably never identify him and only our speculations will remain.


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 17, 2017, 08:21:18 PM
Quote from: Bob
"Eeek!  You terrorist!"
Bob, you could be right in that little scene. It certainly is a possibility.

When I am walking up to a building I will, out of habit and because of the way I was raised, hold open the door for people. Most are polite and say thank you. Every now and then I get a scowl and no reaction at all. I’ve even heard people mumbling as they walk through. Some just don’t like being put in a position of having to acknowledge someone’s kindness or consideration I guess or they take as though I’m implying they can’t do for themselves.

I’ve stopped allowing that to put me off because I have no way to control it. I’ve also decided to not try and guess who to hold the door for. Everyone gets the treatment and I am satisfied that I’ve done what little I can.

I don’t worry about it. The same holds true here. The only thing I do to avoid this is by trying to find places where the chance of seeing anyone is minute. That is the limit of my control.

The benefit to me is I don’t frighten anyone, I don’t have to deal with noisy crowds and I am in a place where there is little to no human impact. A natural place where I can relax without the physical and other burdens that I go there to shed.

I hope that if and WHEN I do actually bump into someone that they, like me, will be of the same mindset and, who knows, I might meet a kindred spirit.

My wife’s reaction to people like that is to keep in mind that you may have encountered them once, while they have to get up every day and see themselves in the mirror.

Comments seem to have disappeared on the article!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 17, 2017, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from:  dbwvogel
. . . the woman didn't actually see him naked (in a legal sense), but merely knew he was nude.
Does that mean we can be arrested for showering because our neighbor is aware of the fact we are naked?  ;D

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on October 18, 2017, 11:39:19 AM
 ;) :o ;D
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on October 18, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
Does that mean we can be arrested for showering because our neighbor is aware of the fact we are naked?  ;D

Not only that, the neighbour will have to hand himself in because he's naked under his clothes ....
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 18, 2017, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: pjcomp
Not only that, the neighbour will have to hand himself in because he's naked under his clothes . . .
Hmmm. Sounds like an action plan to me. If we all went to the station and turned ourselves in because someone KNEW we were naked they would be swamped with incidents to process. If fifty, I mean fifty people walked in and turned themselves in, it could be a movement. And that’s what it would be, “The naked under your clothes movement.”

Abraham Lincoln had the best solution for bad laws (http://www.quote-coyote.com/quotes/authors/l/abraham-lincoln/quote-5058.html). And there is nothing wrong with providing the impetus for allowing the civil servants to earn their salary.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on November 14, 2017, 10:16:49 AM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/4906266/britains-first-nude-only-play-rousing-performance/

What happened when the audience went naked. For our colonial readers - the Sun is a down-market tabloid which can usually be relied on to take a schoolboy's approach to "tits and bums", so this report is actually quite restrained and respectful for them!

peter
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 14, 2017, 03:51:12 PM
"Let The Sunshine? From where I was standing it was all about the moons. "

Sun demonstrating their constant fear that someone, somewhere, may be enjoying life.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 14, 2017, 07:38:15 PM
Why do you suppose that they invited the Sun exclusively to uh "cover" the play? The Sun couldn't insult the hundreds that participated, I suppose.

Is this a big theater, with hundreds? I assumed that it was. I think that it is good publicly for us. People will read that public nudity is fun, safe, many are doing it, they are not all perverts, or weird. Hair did that, it let the masses know that nude is fine, that people do it without negative consequence. Those first timers, they are apt to begin to understand the joys of nudity.

There will be more readers that have the inclination, that " It ain't for me, but it seems okay for others."

Hair was a pioneer of audience participation in theater. I still remember that cute blonde girl putting her hand out to me.

I hope that this is a trend. Restaurants, theater, beaches, parks, people are having fun naked and without shame. It may not be portrayed as a normal, or usual, which it isn't, yet, but it could become a fad, an acceptable lark, something cool that you must have done to be cool and talk about it with authority. Then others would have to try it, and those seeds last, because we are all naturists, we just don't all know it yet. The more of this desexualized exploitation of naked the better.

And I'd have loved to be there, what fun, and I have a regret that my 18 year old hand wasn't balls enough to take that cute blonde up on her offer. I don't think that it was so much the naked that intimidated me, but the dancing with hundreds watching, or maybe not...How could I remember?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 15, 2017, 01:05:52 AM

The first time I  saw Hair there was a couple of cast members seated in the audience.  At the appropriate time the guy got up and said something like, "We can leave now Martha, they've done the nude part."  The woman responded and soon they were enfolded into the show.   They were cast, not audience though.  However, the actual audience did get up and dance in the isles at the end.  It was a good show.  Nobody objected to the cast being naked in one scene. 





Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on November 15, 2017, 03:36:35 AM
While at the othe4 end of the nudit6 spectrum ....


http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/nudity-at-pools

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 15, 2017, 08:34:48 AM
Absurd....

Never been to Montreal. Never will. It is cold and foolish. There are lots of anti-Muslim comments... Good. Maybe it will put the latest influx of fascist religious goofs in their place.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 15, 2017, 11:49:22 AM
I posted a comment:
Quote
After having major bowel surgery I always shower naked BEFORE swimming.
If anybody challenges me I simply ask whether they would prefer me to swim with a potentially sh*tty bottom.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 15, 2017, 04:50:41 PM
I lived in Los Alamos, NM for a while.  The altitude is over 7,000 feet.  (2130 meters)

Several Olympic swim teams would come there for a couple of weeks and use their pool to train at high altitude.  The pool had a large carpeted seating area where people could watch swimming competitions. 

The Italian Olympic swim team didn't bother with locker rooms.  They just changed their swim suits and such in the seating area.  Bodies are no big deal.

Quite a few of the local women would go watch them "swim." 

Canadian politics is somewhat crazy from my perspective.   Reading the article it appears that psychosexual deviants who pretend to be the opposite sex don't want to feel out of place in single sex locker rooms.   Its liberal stupid enabling psychotic deviants.


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 16, 2017, 12:44:49 AM
I have a couple of these "psychotic deviants" as friends, Bob. One is boy to girl and one is girl to boy. They are as they are, coping, experimenting and doing their best with what they are, what they feel and it ain't easy for them. They would probably have an easier time of things, if they didn't have to deal with gender clothing and roles.  I figure nude would be more natural, less confusing for them to work out their identity. It would be less weird and confusing for the rest of us, who have difficulty understanding their unique situations. Clothes shouldn't actually make the man.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 16, 2017, 02:40:58 AM
Speaking of clothing. There's a fairly social naturist in this area (meaning, quite a few people around here know her, so it's no secret, but I won't use any names) who is a male-to-female transexual. She's gone through the entire process, surgery and all. I saw her grow breasts, first through hormones and then with implants, and finally I met her in her first post-transition year at a past Naturist Gathering. Trying not to look as if I was cringing internally, I said, "So you've really done it", and she said, "Yes, you can see I have". I said, "Well then, next time I see you you'll probably be wearing a sarong." We both laughed.

The following year I saw her again and she was wearing a sarong. I didn't say anything.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on November 16, 2017, 03:12:52 PM

Speaking of clothing. There's a fairly social naturist in this area (meaning, quite a few people around here know her, so it's no secret, but I won't use any names) who is a male-to-female transexual. She's gone through the entire process, surgery and all. I saw her grow breasts, first through hormones and then with implants, and finally I met her in her first post-transition year at a past Naturist Gathering. Trying not to look as if I was cringing internally, I said, "So you've really done it", and she said, "Yes, you can see I have". I said, "Well then, next time I see you you'll probably be wearing a sarong." We both laughed.

The following year I saw her again and she was wearing a sarong. I didn't say anything.
That is really sad. The matter of adopting a new gender has meant that she has adopted a different set of standards as she did when a man.  Do you think the sarong just her adopting what she thought were the norms for women so as to be more of a woman, John P, or was it less conscious adoption and more of a reflex reaction?  I wonder if her experience as a woman had changed her that much?
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 16, 2017, 03:54:55 PM
I have a couple of these "psychotic deviants" as friends, Bob. One is boy to girl and one is girl to boy. They are as they are, coping, experimenting and doing their best with what they are, what they feel and it ain't easy for them.
Jbee


I have known psychotic people for many decades now.  Most eventually come to realize that the years of struggle did not solve their psychological problems, it only made a worse mess of their lives.  The depression and suicide rates are horrific.  Facilitating someone's mental problems as an enabler does not really help them.

The Canadian ban on nudity in pool locker rooms appears to be driven by deviants wanting to pretend to be whatever sex they choose while not having to expose their biological sex. 

Enabling sexual dysfunction is not helping.  It leads to failure and suicide. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 18, 2017, 03:20:10 AM
That is really sad. The matter of adopting a new gender has meant that she has adopted a different set of standards as she did when a man.  Do you think the sarong just her adopting what she thought were the norms for women so as to be more of a woman, John P, or was it less conscious adoption and more of a reflex reaction?  I wonder if her experience as a woman had changed her that much?
John

There are undoubtedly varied things going on there, and I don't know which item dominates. I'm sorry to see that so many women who at least do get as far as attending naturist events don't feel comfortable enough to be naked, but they're hugely outnumbered and likely to feel insecure. And in places I go, like the Eastern Naturist Gathering, it's become so much of a custom for the women to wear sarongs now, that I think a woman who actually did want to be naked would feel additional pressure not to, because that would isolate her not just as a woman in mostly male company, but set her apart from most of the other women. I certainly wouldn't want to say anything about it, knowing that it would come out sounding like "I'm a man and I want to see naked women"! I don't know the specific feelings that my transexual acquaintance has, but it might be that as someone who's establishing a female identity, she feels most comfortable doing what most of the other women do. You said "her experience as a woman" but I think there's also "her experience fitting into the way a woman is expected to behave". I mean, if she were nude when almost all the other women have clothes on, she might get the thought "Well then, am I a real woman?"
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: dbwvogel on November 22, 2017, 05:00:26 AM
The Canadian ban on nudity in pool locker rooms appears to be driven by deviants wanting to pretend to be whatever sex they choose while not having to expose their biological sex

Enabling sexual dysfunction is not helping.  It leads to failure and suicide.
I must disagree. I feel the news story suggests an entirely different cause of the policy; although driven in part by the understanding that there may be transgender people using the facilities, there is also the recognition that single-gender facilities don't serve people with special needs, such as parents of small children and older or disabled people. The policy is driven by textile-compulsives who assume that all users need to be protected from the sight of anyone else in a natural state, particularly (though not exclusively) someone of a different gender. In a way the policy is doing one good in opening the facilities for everyone (and the idea that they'll be ready to have a single facility for everyone in the future is not in and of itself bad); where we part company with them is in their thinking that the average user needs protection. However, given the current state of our culture (or Canada's, at any rate) we can hardly blame them for that - even if we vehemently disagree.

I will add that I find this blatant condemnation of transgendered people both distasteful and unhelpful to the conversation.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on November 22, 2017, 10:23:32 PM
John P, your remark
Quote
You said "her experience as a woman" but I think there's also "her experience fitting into the way a woman is expected to behave".

is bang on.  I felt that might be the principal reason for her change of habit. (habit in both senses!!)
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 23, 2017, 02:10:10 AM
There is peer pressure, fitting in, fear of rejection, dying to be like all the other girls, fulfilling the dream to somehow be accepted as a woman, to be seen as a woman, to have a sense that, "I am a woman."

I would suppose that that fulfillment is more difficult in a naked male, or partly female body, so I'd expect a "she to he" to be drawn toward female clothing, until the full change is performed. The people that I know admit that they are stuck in the middle at that big castration step. They do hormones, implants, but....

They often identify with being transgender, not a woman, or a woman almost, which is who they are and still having to identify outwardly as one or the other, wanting to identify as a woman, feeling as a woman. Yes, it is confusing and messy in the trans. Too bad that it isn't "cut" and dry, but it is expensive and scary and takes time.

John P., would it have something to do with her being trans that she may get too much attention from the curious, or does she enjoy talking about the process and outcome? Would that vary by her mood?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 23, 2017, 04:36:57 PM

They often identify with being transgender, not a woman, or a woman almost, which is who they are and still having to identify outwardly as one or the other, wanting to identify as a woman, feeling as a woman. Yes, it is confusing and messy in the trans. Too bad that it isn't "cut" and dry, but it is expensive and scary and takes time.
Jbee

Too often ends with depression and suicide.  Enabling someone's psychological problems does not actually help them.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 23, 2017, 06:07:01 PM
Learning to cope with an abnormality in a socially constrained world is going to be difficult, no matter what it is. These psychological issues are going to be a problem whether they are "enabled" as you say, or not. For some it will lead to depression and suicide, no matter what course the person chooses. The person needs to be able to make some choices and has a right to find happiness however they may feel works and they have the right to make mistakes, if it doesn't hurt someone else.

To me, enabling implies my control over another's behavior and my judgement of them. There are many who believe nudity to be a disorder and enforce their will on me. They might say they shouldn't enable me and put pants on me. That my nude body will get burned, or frozen, or sick, or infect someone else, or some other silly notion. There are potential psychological detriments to being simply nude, if the circumstances fall into place that will destroy someones life, economically, or legally being labeled. There are severe enforced weird potentials.

Clothing as an option means clothing is an option. Clothing can create all kinds of bizarre destructive behaviors. Should we enable people to continue to do these destructive behaviors, or force them to be naked and natural? Whose confusion and problem is it?

In a locker room, we've got gender issues going on that shouldn't be there. We restrict women from men's locker rooms. Would we restrict gays men from locker rooms for the same reasons? Where does a person go to change if they are feeling like a woman and are physically part of both? It would seem that coed locker rooms would be the answer, but that ain't gonna happen in a public government entity, like parks and rec. So, they restrict, giving separate facilities to everyone.

I remember a facility like that in Bolivia, years ago. I would meet my Bolivian girlfriend in the separate shower changing stalls and we would have sex there, somewhat discretely. She lived with her family and my hotel wouldn't allow her to my room, assuming that she might be a puta.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 25, 2017, 04:59:15 AM
John P., would it have something to do with her being trans that she may get too much attention from the curious, or does she enjoy talking about the process and outcome? Would that vary by her mood?
Jbee

The person I know is more of an acquaintance than a friend, and we haven't had this discussion.But  I imagine you're right, that at some times she'd be more eager to talk about it than others times. I can't deny that this whole business makes me uncomfortable, and I wouldn't seek out such a conversation.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 25, 2017, 07:11:56 AM
I've become pretty comfortable about it, but it is certainly still confusing dealing with someone in transit. I haven't been trained to deal with this professionally. That is for referral to someone. I know a local lawyer who does a lot of work with these issues, is an activist and is trans herself. She took a class from me concerning transpersonal energy several years ago. I spoke with her, we had a warm relationship. I bumped into her at a conference and gave her a warm hug, but immediately found that she was uncomfortable being hugged as a woman by a man. She had seemed to have her stuff down pat, but there was more than i knew. I then attended a panel of three trans people, including her. They were extremely open and candid about their lives. I learned a great deal in that hour and a half of them answering any question from the audience. They need to be heard and we all need to be able to ask like this. It is not a simple matter. I'm looking forward to an opportunity to ask such a panel about the factoring of clothing into their actions and what it would be like without clothing. I'd love to hear what the nudist acquaintance has to say about it. Maybe someday.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on November 25, 2017, 04:50:58 PM
I first learned the ins and outs of so-called "sex change" people up close and personal from a so-called "trans" who pretended to be female.  Engaging in relationship activities with a normal person under false pretenses (lies) is equal to "rape," and legally "sexual assault" if a normal man and woman were involved.  Law and order looks the other way when a man is a victim of unwanted sexual assault. 

I learned a lot about "her" and other such people.  "She" had once run a counseling center in Chicago for messed up gender fluid people, encouraging them to mess up their lives.  It does not actually help people to encourage and enable their psychotic problems.  It leads to failure in life, serious depression, and very often suicide. 

Here is reality:
http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on November 27, 2017, 03:56:51 PM
This is an article about giving confused children hormones, when nearly all of us adjust eventually. It doesn't say anything about adults that haven't adjusted, that have fully matured and are still confused. I'd like to read something about the why and where this confusion happens/evolves and how the developmental theory is proven, or surmised. Common sense tells me that there is a severe discomfort for someone to get into such extremes. It is wrong to simply dismiss it. It is a disorder in human nature, unusual, a phenomena. The article does imply that that there is separation of biological and mental organization, something that isn't true, something that science is just beginning to understand. Our facts to work with are inconclusive. While as it states that giving children hormones is wrong headed, even dangerous, it doesn't address adults which still carry this burden.

Although I agree with the conclusion at this point, I'd like to mention that it was written by organizational presidents with PhD's, bureaucrats, which often are defending fallacious opinions and are often bureaucrats/administrators because they make crappy therapist. Their validity should always be suspect because if their inherent limitations.

I'm throwing in a persons right to seek happiness...an adult who is inflicted with a peculiar disorder can choose to remedy themselves as they wish.

Someone getting sexy with me who is lying by omission about which sex they are, could get me into some serious anger. But then again, where do they draw the line with a disclosure? At what point during courting and sparking do you tell someone that you are a naturist? People often hold their cards before they play them. Sometimes they make mistakes when distributing their hands, too soon, or not quick enough.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on November 27, 2017, 10:02:11 PM
<snip good stufff>
 People often hold their cards before they play them. Sometimes they make mistakes when distributing their hands, too soon, or not quick enough.
Jbee
The story of my life,   ;)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on November 28, 2017, 02:19:31 AM
It is so pleasant to be able to say that your life is an open book.

One of my naturist friends has repeatedly told me the story, which for all I know is true, that when Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill had their first wartime conference, Churchill appeared naked in the doorway of Roosevelt's room, and said, "You can see, Mr President, that I have nothing to hide!" Roosevelt supposedly roared with laughter. Guys could get away with things like that in those days.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Patrick1951 on November 28, 2017, 07:04:11 AM
It is so pleasant to be able to say that your life is an open book.

One of my naturist friends has repeatedly told me the story, which for all I know is true, that when Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill had their first wartime conference, Churchill appeared naked in the doorway of Roosevelt's room, and said, "You can see, Mr President, that I have nothing to hide!" Roosevelt supposedly roared with laughter. Guys could get away with things like that in those days.
It seems that not only was Churchill a history maker in politics he broke new ground in 'diplomacy'. Somehow I don't imagine that scene could be re-enacted today!
Teresa May calling in on Donald Trump? NO I don't think so.
Donald Trump calling on Teresa May... ?  ?   ? possibly?  ?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 02, 2017, 08:08:16 AM
These guys are worried about a guy who identifies as female getting into the girls locker room dressed as a female. Think that they are worried about who or what is under a burka?  ::)
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: dbwvogel on December 11, 2017, 04:05:03 AM
I have looked through and didn't find this one mentioned yet: Why stop at one nude beach? Make them all "clothes optional" (https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/nude-bathing-on-most-of-byron-beaches/3249163/)

I was trying to track down an Australian naturist organization when I came across the Northern Star, a news site for northern New South Wales on the eastern shore. Seems a nude beach was starting to gain a reputation for inappropriate behavior when, rather than shutting it down, a council member proposed opening ALL the beaches in the jurisdiction as clothing-optional. The idea being, apparently, that shedding the light of day on the beaches would scare off the sex-exhibitionists. So the proposal didn't pass, but not only did they not close down the beach (signs went up and police are patrolling), but the idea is to be revisited in a few months.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on December 15, 2017, 09:42:57 PM

http://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/council-defends-banning-man-being-919844

An illustration of the threat to liberty in the UK posed by a law that was never intended to do this - basically any tinpot official can make up their own laws if they don’t like something. Frightening

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Patrick1951 on December 15, 2017, 10:29:56 PM

http://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/council-defends-banning-man-being-919844

An illustration of the threat to liberty in the UK posed by a law that was never intended to do this - basically any tinpot official can make up their own laws if they don’t like something. Frightening
I had walked naked onto my apartments balcony, up on 3rd floor, at 5 am on 2 separate mornings. First time to put my plant tubs back upright, which took around 30 seconds. Second time was a few days later when I saw two sea birds sitting quite calmly on our table! Again I was out no more than a few  seconds, but some how 5 individual (anonymous) people saw me  and felt offended enough to tell the police!  I didn't see anyone, it was very early daytime and just becoming daylight.
Four days  later two PCSO's (part time temporaries) came to the manager of our apartment block and claimed I had acted indecently.
I protested loud and clear, I was NOT indecent, I strongly objected to mysterious and nocturnal prudes craning their vision skywards to be offended by my  fleeting appearance. The officers smiled and advised caution on my part, I advised passers by who were ashamed of their own names, to just travel forwards looking forwards and avoid peering onto dwellings property.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on December 15, 2017, 11:00:33 PM
Here you could possibly be labeled a sex offender, if you don't spend thousands defending yourself, or take a plea bargain. Could there be something else motivating these "five"!...FIVE!?!

How does a council get the job? Are councils like individual cops, or a governing body?
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on December 16, 2017, 07:04:37 AM
Councillors have to be elected, but the council officers are employees. The staff supposedly enact the policies emplaned by the elected, but in practice they stay while the councillors come and go so get to do pretty much what they can get away with. The only real check on many of them is their own sense of probity.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on January 20, 2018, 02:48:05 PM

Opposite reactions to two art exhibitions - one is canceled because it contains nudes, the other not only contains nudes but has sell-out audiences who view them nude.

https://wydaily.com/latest-news/2018/01/20/citing-vitriolic-response-to-removal-of-nude-paintings-hrt-discontinues-all-art-exhibits/

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/why-sydneys-nude-art-tours-keep-selling-out-at-the-mca/news-story/0ca2b6d1f281290753675d1c0d150af3
Modify message
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 20, 2018, 06:49:14 PM
Sorry a few sicko prudes have so much influence as to intimidate the buearocrat. Maybe he is vulnerable to loose his retirement if the job is lost and wants no controversy. I know that a government entity here stifling free expression is subject to law suits, IF someone wants to make issue. It would have to be porn. Maybe the guy just recognizes that he is in over his head and can't do his job, because people are involved instead of schedules.

Dang! Too bad it is so far for me to drive. The Great Keskin (sic.), the magician/psychic, predicted that 2018 will be a year of public nudity, with things like this nude art gallery, restaurants, etc. all over the western world's countries. Maybe someone in Phoenix will catch up to the trend in 2019. ::) ;D

That bureaucrat has my skin crawling and cringing. How do these flat-lined safe-necks get so much power in your country? Can you imagine how dull a world could be with these bland type folks making decisions about everyone else life?

So, there it is, two extremes that you have there and in Arizona, dull middle of the road nothing happening at all, no one even thinking of it. There are nude life-size figures playing/dancing with each other on the sidewalk in downtown Phoenix. I've got pictures somewhere. Then there was Bushes top Lawman covering the breast of 'ol lady justice statue for a press conference....
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on January 20, 2018, 10:21:50 PM

It is utterly horrifying that one of the last bastions of tolerance to all manner of representation, nude, clothed, serene, violent, people, landscape, building and abstract - i.e. the art gallery and the acceptance of artworks is under seige from the evil, yes evil, bigots that seek to banish nudity from the world.  I had a decent browse round Alison Stineley's website and I can't see anything in those paintings that would disturb anyone by comparison to some of the sometimes shocking great works of nude art out there such as Michelangelo, Raphael, Titian, Stanley Spencer, Klimt, Gerome or Sargent and I could go on with examples.  Actually the way in which nudes are represented by Stineley reminds me a little of the writhing bodies and perfected physiques of Michaelangelo's
Sistine Chapel ceiling.  That we humans reproduce in 2and 3D works our natural form has always been a fruitful subject for representation in art for thousands of years.  Who are these utter prudes and bigots that want to censor the free expression of whole societies and species in just one aspect - nudity and for just one reason - that THEY fell a bit embarrassed.  It makes me so angry and it would even if I were not a nudist.


If I ruled the world I would do it with a rod of iron that insisted on freedom, mutual support, diversity and pluralism and ban hegemonical, extremist and censorious minorities from acting without extensive and general debate and consultations to ascertain rationally if their viewpoint or demand was really one that mattered or was agreed with.  If it was, then it would be acceptable to all and if not these unacceptable minority views would hopefully be swamped by the majority opinion and disappear. Thus the quality of society generally may be improved by democracy, positive debate and progressive dialectic. But sadly, my friends, this can never happen for to be a liberal dictator is a paradoxical contradiction in terms.  Sadly we liberal minded souls can only be liberal if we are true to that principle and therefore forbidden to coercively and dictatorially impose our will on all - which is the very thing we fight against and so we cannot use it as a weapon or tool ourselves.  Yet that is the very position that leaves us weak and vulnerable to the restrictive, fascist dictatorial martinets, bigots and extremists who do militate to force their bile and proscriptions, condemnations and denunciations, laws, judgmentalism and unfairness upon their more benign and more rational fellow men. 


Grump.


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on January 21, 2018, 07:11:27 PM
Sorry a few sicko prudes have so much influence as to intimidate the bureaucrat. ...

That bureaucrat has my skin crawling and cringing. How do these flat-lined safe-necks get so much power in your country?  Then there was Bushes top Lawman covering the breast of 'ol lady justice statue for a press conference....
Jbee

JBG, you don't seem to have picked up the fact that the successful nude art exhibit was in Australia, but the one which was canceled was in Virginia, USA.

And the statues were covered by the order of John Ashcroft, but not just because he didn't like nudity. They were in a room used for press conferences, and the news photographers liked to take pictures which put the nude figures behind Ashcroft while he made speeches. I've got some sympathy for the guy when the location was being manipulated in that way.

Edited to add that I've got some sympathy for the poor bureaucrat in Virginia, too (aren't liberals tedious? That's why we never get anywhere.) If he lets the art exhibit go ahead, someone objects. If he keeps some images out, someone objects. His job is to run a bus network, not be the referee between conflicting groups. So he makes his life easy by telling them all to go away, and says the transit department won't be hosting art exhibits any more.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on January 21, 2018, 09:30:51 PM
I noticed the same thing about the venues.

Concerning the Alison Stinely exhibit, there are two things being discussed here. People that choose to avoid images of the naked human and freedom of speech.

One of the unrealized aspects of free speech is that while we are guaranteed freedom of speech we are not guaranteed a freedom of audience. A rally for anything in a public space is guaranteed, within the prevailing laws of that area. If I choose to get a permit and then stand on a street corner and pontificate, I don’t have the right to force people to stop and listen. I have the right to speak but not the right to be heard.

However if you hang either good or bad art in a public building that citizens HAVE to use, you are attempting to force people to view something they may not wish to see. You have made the ethical leap between the right of freedom of speech and the right to an audience by using the government as your weapon of force.

This, of course has nothing to do with the art itself, but the attempt to use a free and publicly funded site for your own financial gain. While I do not fear seeing the naked human form I do not see that as a justification for forcing anyone else to either see it or approve of it’s viewing by anyone.

Trying to shoehorn your art in front of a captive audience and then claiming the right of free speech is disingenuous. Let it stand or fall on it’s own merit. She needs to take a real risk at a real gallery and stop trying to take short cuts on the taxpayer’s dime. Choosing to visit a gallery implies that you may see something you wouldn’t ordinarily see and you have the option to not view those things. You also have to pay to get in which funds the museum and the artist.

I do not support governments deciding what is or isn’t art and what art I should be seeing, just like I don’t support the government deciding what I should be reading or watching. I wonder how many, if any, galleries she tried to accept her work for shows? It would be revealing to know.

If a government or municipal office decides to decorate their structures with art, it should be representative of the general history that describes that community not just a few selected individuals. It is not the place of government to advance innovation in the arts. Just like any other market, art succeeds either at the public level by the public’s choice to accept it and view it or at the private level where a patron pays the artist for the work. The government has no business trying to skew the market by showing preferences for certain types of art.

It sounds like those responsible for the management of the transit site recognized that there was no way they could satisfy everyone, so they put a stop to the idea in general.

With regard to the 2nd link, I recognized the name of this guy and I had written a post about another of his shows at the same museum at Nudity and Self Acceptance (http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c9f1d82e195e90ae89c5177cb30814c5&topic=968.msg8591#msg8591). Looks like he’s still at it and having good results.

Personally the “ART” seen in the photos does not appeal to me, though we don’t see all of it, I would be curious about the naked experience at a museum. It might be interesting if wandering nude around the museum’s other galleries is included.

Check the 2nd photo closely and you will see breasts and crotches pixilated. It's an article about how wonderful it is to view an art show naked having to censor it’s own article. Irony? :)

As JohnP pointed out it also should be noted that one was in America and the other in Australia. I am not familiar with the tolerance of nudity down under but the tolerance here is not so high, especially in public buildings. This is more like how an art show should be. As opposed to the previous artist’s attempt to force the viewing of her art on a captive audience that is exercising it’s right to enter a building intended for public use.

I am willing to wait to see if she claims harm and sues anyone. It’s a another example of the old addage, “There is no such thing as bad press”!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 22, 2018, 01:16:40 AM
Sorry a few sicko prudes have so much influence as to intimidate the bureaucrat. ...

That bureaucrat has my skin crawling and cringing. How do these flat-lined safe-necks get so much power in your country?  Then there was Bushes top Lawman covering the breast of 'ol lady justice statue for a press conference....
Jbee

JBG, you don't seem to have picked up the fact that the successful nude art exhibit was in Australia, but the one which was canceled was in Virginia, USA.

And the statues were covered by the order of John Ashcroft, but not just because he didn't like nudity. They were in a room used for press conferences, and the news photographers liked to take pictures which put the nude figures behind Ashcroft while he made speeches. I've got some sympathy for the guy when the location was being manipulated in that way.

Edited to add that I've got some sympathy for the poor bureaucrat in Virginia, too (aren't liberals tedious? That's why we never get anywhere.) If he lets the art exhibit go ahead, someone objects. If he keeps some images out, someone objects. His job is to run a bus network, not be the referee between conflicting groups. So he makes his life easy by telling them all to go away, and says the transit department won't be hosting art exhibits any more.
John P., Virginia it is! Norfolk, the neck of the woods where I was born. I clearly missed it, as I was getting several distractions, when I came to this post. I haven't been there in decades, but I'm pretty sure from what I've heard, that it has never been a progressive bastion. It wasn’t back in the day. I recall reading about extremist right having great influence there a few years back.

But getting your point, which is likely correct and also Eyesup’s conversation,

I have to give some thought.  I have the impression from the article that it isn’t in the hallways of the transit station and that there is no captive audience. But given that it might be other than a gallery room in a public building, my thoughts about public art will question a right of anyone to not see nude art. Where would Rome and Paris be without nudes in art. Plazas, drawing millions and in view of passing cars would not exist. We would all have to look at squiggly abstract sculptures, or a cold no-nonsense practical world reminiscent of the old Soviet block, which I remember from my 1960’s travels. Something as benign as a casted mermaid in a pond in someone’s front yard could not be seen in a public accommodation. The general public has no problem with nudity in art. Even most prudes who wouldn’t tolerate a nude human will most likely accept a nude in an artistic context.

The idea that the minority, or even the majority, may censor free expression in public, I find questionable. A captive audience may rise up and decide that a piece is obviously ugly and stupid art and will castigate the doof bureaucrat that approved $100,000 of public money for a piece of crap, which has happened in my burg. This article is about censorship by a government entity, probably by someone who doesn’t want to go the extra mile for the public interest. 

On the other hand, I might imagine a radical move in reaction to controversy where a nude is censored and someone might protest by going in and pissing on the other art. If one can’t have expression, then nobody can, which is just what a school teacher might do when children get out of hand, punish them all, to the teachers convenience. Is this guy is pissing on all art.

If one is out in public, then one may see something that one might object to. In public, you ARE a captive audience, you don’t have the right to censor another, unless that other’s behavior is censoring your expression, totally out of alignment.

The government sets up cable TV space for individuals. Public radio and TV are a part of campus life. We give funding to nonprofits to enrich the public and keep the control out of the hands of a few rich people that would be left to fund. We provide rooms in libraries to enrich free expression, to make things affordable. We have had a free internet until recently, now there will be more censorship. To change, to enrich, to grow, evolve and correct, to leave evidence of lasting cultural identity, we need public support from government entities, on the public’s dime, to promote ourselves.

So Eyesup, I’m not sure if we are agreeing, or disagreeing, but I am just sayin”.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on January 27, 2018, 04:32:26 PM

Duane
Quote

[font=]However if you hang either good or bad art in a public building that citizens HAVE to use, you are attempting to force people to view something they may not wish to see. You have made the ethical leap between the right of freedom of speech and the right to an audience by using the government as your weapon of force.[/font]
I think that sentence and the general drift of your last post, whilst trying, I think, to purvey your usual liberal and tolerant attitudes, treads a fine line between that and an over- 'PC' (politically correct) dictatorship of a restrictive moral and aesthetic code.  What I think you were saying and what I also think Jbee was reacting against, was the suggestion that the public in its places where art could be exhibited should only allow or choose art of a generally acceptable, inoffensive, anodyne sort to avoid extremes of opinion being 'forced' upon people in places they could not avoid and avoiding public spaces to exhibit anything that might give any offence to anyone for whatever reason.


I would say that position is mistaken and that censoriousness should be applied (if that is ever appropriate) to the people your suggestion would be trying to protect i.e. those who feel uncomfortable or who don't want to see certain artistic expressions.  It is the danger of eliciting their intolerance that is driving your comment it seems.  On the contrary therefore, I should rather see these peoples' fossilised positions on nudity and many other subjects challenged by the very freedom of organisations and artists to exhibit where the want and can.  The right of free expression is more important than pandering to a minority that because of their own personal prejudices and bigotries cannot accept something and cannot let it be.  For each person that objects to some picture or sculpture or whatnot there may be many that approve and are edified and enlightened by the same thing.  If the reverse is true then the majority needs to be actively encouraged to think of why they make and objection to a work of art and not simply have the offending work taken away.


No, keep the art and educate the objector, I say.  Help them to object in tolerance and teach them the danger that their censorship leads towards the sort of fascist cultural hegemony that has not been historically particularly successful and that monumental societal change and world wars have been employed to liberate us from.


Err,,,That's not to say you are a fascist, Duane, no no no no no.  I just think your customary polite liberalism caused a minor misjudgment on this one!


Pax, pax, pax, my friend! :)


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on January 27, 2018, 08:16:59 PM
Public art can be many things, like in fascist countries, dictatorships and monarchies, the arts in public places are often propaganda tools. I remember flying through the mid-east a few years ago, walking through the airport, with walls filled with decoration of the ruler's many good deeds, just before a political upheaval of his cart. The art of many cites is monuments to war, fools and the history of the dominate culture. Naked pictures of people seems pretty benign in comparison.

You can give free expression or dominate it with pictures of rulers and false pictures of reality, as a lie. You can lie by omitting the truth, like nude is not lude, it is a good healthy matter of fact and humanity.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on February 01, 2018, 08:08:03 AM
Why have mildly erotic nymphs been removed from a Manchester gallery? Is Picasso next?
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/jan/31/hylas-and-the-nymphs-jw--waterhouse-why-have-mildly-erotic-nymphs-been-removed-from-a-manchester-gallery-is-picasso-next?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Another instance of the art world getting the jitters about (female?) nudity. Is there a prudes backlash buildings?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on February 01, 2018, 10:19:51 PM

A case of Manchester Art Gallery being too up its own rectum of contemplation to see the ludicrous inanity of its 'right on' action.  The picture is not outstandingly problematic.  To remove it raises questions about stuff that just is not there. Late Victorian painting was full of soft porn for the gentry to feast their furtive, repressed Victorian eyes on.  Looked at with the modern eye we can see superb artistic creation with a strong flavour of repressed perversion.  So what.  There are some great artworks there.  The representation of beautiful women by the Pre-Raphaelites, of which Whitehouse was one, were extremely benign and bland compared with some of the works of the Academicist school who were basically obsessed by nudie young women and barefoot little girls.  Superb technicians all, but with today's eyes one cannot but conclude a pornographic and paedophilic eye that created many of these stunning pictures. Yet they were neither criticised nor ignored.  The Academicists such as Bouguereau, Gerome and Cabanel were, however, feted and successful with many students and buyers.  With our modern eyes was this right?  That debate ain't well served by preventing people seeing and discussing the works.


I'm tempted to go to Manchester and argue with them!!


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on February 02, 2018, 04:44:55 PM
The Calgary nude swim is back on - just has to be in secret at “an undisclosed location”

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/skinny-dippers-rejoice-agreement-reached-to-resume-naked-swimming-events-at-calgary-pools-1.3785839
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 24, 2018, 02:46:43 AM

A case of Manchester Art Gallery...
 ...That debate ain't well served by preventing people seeing and discussing the works.


I'm tempted to go to Manchester and argue with them!!


John
Yea, and take a dozen others with you!!
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 24, 2018, 02:50:17 AM
DF presented a copy of Alure Magazine, something that she had picked up in the airport. “Redefining Nude in 2018.”

!. Naked person:Def: An individual who doesn’t like wearing clothes.
Someone who reads the Sunday paper in the buff, cooks in the nude, occasionally shocks the mailman, and might as well donate all of their pajamas to Goodwill. The first to share a dressing room, they take a clothing optional approach to life whenever they can. 

2. Study in “Journal of Personality and Social Psychology,” 527 participants looked a pictues of people naked and clothed. They rated the naked people more capable of experiencing all kinds of feelings including pain, desire and pleasure. The same people clothed were viewed as more intelligent , BUT less in tune with their emotions….

3. People who love lounging around naked are more cultured, more cerebral, but not necessarily smarter. Journal of Personality and Individual Differences” survey of 765 participants. Seems the personalities are more open to new experiences, nonconformist, and unconventional. An erudite highbrow individual will fit into this.

4. Also the same study found that were more likely to buy organic and put Tabasco on your eggs.!!?!

5. The more often that you are naked in public places like a free beach, “the happier you are with your body, yourself, and your life overall. 850 surveyed (all types).

6. U of C Berkley’s Greater Good Science Center magazine, I shocks the system and makes you aware of yourself in your body.” (duh) “That can be so empowering.”

The mag goes on about 80% of people have stretch marks (live with it, tatoo, it, treat it a couple of ways), women who shave their heads, history of shaving the rest of the body, how to and getting naked at Esalen Institute on the California cliff coast.

Pretty good for us, all in all, from a women's culture/fashion rag.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: reubenT on February 24, 2018, 11:35:56 PM
Say what you will but there is a double standard which in this case goes against the male sex. An exposed penis is seen as bad as an exposed gun. Both are deemed dangerous!

They are both dangerous.   In the wrong hands.   A trigger happy criminal,   and a sex predator.     They are both safe,   in the hands (and attached to the body)  of law abiding citizens.  But the silly fallacy that if one is seen it becomes dangerous becomes nonsense if carefully considered. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on February 27, 2018, 05:36:00 PM
Naked man offends worshipers of Shiva, gets arrested. 

Somehow I find that contradictory to traditional worship of Shiva. 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/pune-news/doordarshan-official-arrested-for-sunbathing-nude-on-sinhagad-fort-in-pune/story-APaPXIc8LNCf5Hh80q82HK.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on February 27, 2018, 10:47:11 PM
It all depends on the Shiva people. Some holy men are running around naked all the way to the Ganji. Some have a problem with naked shoulders and knees. It depends on where. This guy accosted by "15" people! He was doing it is a risky place, with weird people all around. In the NEWSPAPER?!!
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on February 28, 2018, 12:44:54 AM

I'm getting tired of people's prurient crap and unease if anyone diverges even a tiny amount from the so called norms.  I wore clogs and no socks the other day and two people commented on how unusual and despite their feigned interest you could see they were uncomfortable with a man that was uninhibited enough to show his naked heels in public.  Its such crap.


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on February 28, 2018, 03:14:26 PM

I'm getting tired of people's prurient crap and unease if anyone diverges even a tiny amount from the so called norms.  I wore clogs and no socks the other day and two people commented on how unusual and despite their feigned interest you could see they were uncomfortable with a man that was uninhibited enough to show his naked heels in public.  Its such crap.
John

In Seattle they claim that wearing socks with sandals is unusual, strange, and a sign that Seattle people are weird. 

I quite wearing shoes entirely a few years ago.  Some people toss you out of their business for being barefoot.  They are happy seeing a man with flipflops and no sox. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on February 28, 2018, 06:57:26 PM

Yes, Bob
It's so irrational.  How much more can the soles of one's feet, that have been walking on the street, contaminate the storekeeper's premises than someone's shoes that have been walking on the same surfaces?  I can think of one - that you may have athletes foot and spread it about (this assumes that others are barefoot too!).  But if you are barefoot most of the time you would tend not to have that ailment as it lives in the warm damp crevices of the shod, socked foot.


Free the sole I say!


John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on March 01, 2018, 05:28:32 PM
I occasionally do wear shoes and recently had to buy larger new ones as my feet have returned to
normal after so many years of going barefoot and wearing sandals.

It was almost painful to put on the old pair.

Duane


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on March 01, 2018, 07:45:57 PM
I occasionally do wear shoes and recently had to buy larger new ones as my feet have returned to
normal after so many years of going barefoot and wearing sandals.

It was almost painful to put on the old pair.

Duane
I suppose that you mean that your feet spread out, liberated from the squeeze of wrong, but fashionable shoes. I'm like quadruple E now. But my heel is the same size like a duck's. My feet are working better barefoot as never before. My body is adapting to a healthier model, aligned with barefoot mobility, but still I need more uneven places without prickers to exercise my feet.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on March 02, 2018, 06:21:11 PM
Yep, my toes are spreading out, returning to their original shape. Your heel is a single bone and can't change shape.

I try to stay in the washes which tend to be uneven and sparsely occupied with the prickers. Although sometimes the sharp stones do the same.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 20, 2018, 05:07:41 AM
Senate to Allow Breastfeeding Mothers to Bring Infants to Chamber Floor
Headline Apr 19, 2018
The Senate has approved a rule change that will allow nursing mothers to bring infants to the Senate floor during votes and to breastfeed them inside the chamber. The rule change comes after Illinois Democrat Tammy Duckworth became the first U.S. senator to give birth while in office. Duckworth has not been present in Senate votes since the birth of her daughter, Maile Pearl Bowlsbey, earlier this month.

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/4/19/headlines/senate_to_allow_breastfeeding_mothers_to_bring_infants_to_chamber_floor

So, maybe a step in the right direction?

Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on April 20, 2018, 06:52:02 AM
You mean they had a rule against it before? Well, they do think of everything, don't they.

Iceland seems to be in the lead in this particular aspect of life, however:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/icelandic-mp-breastfeeds-baby-debate-parliament-al-ingi-a7358681.html
Title: Re: Nudes in the news Waffle House Killer flees scene wearing no clothes.
Post by: Bob Knows on April 23, 2018, 06:20:05 PM
Crazy killer gets naked after mass murder. 


"Travis Reinking opened fire early Sunday morning at the Waffle House, killing at least four people, Nashville police say. At least seven others were injured. 
.......

"The suspect fled the scene wearing no clothes, dropping a green coat he had worn during the shooting, police say.

"Reinking was later seen wearing black pants but no shirt, police said."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/04/22/waffle-house-shooting-suspect-previously-arrested-outside-white-house/540394002/


Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 23, 2018, 06:40:19 PM
Well...that's strange. Even insidiously deranged murders. The clothing obsession apparently had woven a place into his disrupted thinking. I hate to see nudity associated with insanity like this. One sick soul in 300million gives a bad name to naturism and guns.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on April 23, 2018, 07:17:11 PM
That French TV series is about to begin, where they're talking about how clothes have been banned so that terrorists can't hide weapons:
http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/index.php?topic=1046.0
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on April 23, 2018, 07:43:05 PM
Well...that's strange. Even insidiously deranged murders. The clothing obsession apparently had woven a place into his disrupted thinking. I hate to see nudity associated with insanity like this. One sick soul in 300million gives a bad name to naturism and guns.
Jbee

I used to say that most people consider nudists to be harmless eccentrics but maybe that attitude will be changing. Doesn't matter whether he was a nudist or not. I've heard it said that if the police were told there was a man with a gun and also another man who was naked, they'd go after the naked man.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 25, 2018, 04:36:02 AM
Well...that's strange. Even insidiously deranged murders. The clothing obsession apparently had woven a place into his disrupted thinking. I hate to see nudity associated with insanity like this. One sick soul in 300million gives a bad name to naturism and guns.
Jbee

I used to say that most people consider nudists to be harmless eccentrics but maybe that attitude will be changing. Doesn't matter whether he was a nudist or not. I've heard it said that if the police were told there was a man with a gun and also another man who was naked, they'd go after the naked man.

Hmm. That's got me thought provoked...hmmm. "If I were a cop...."
Jbee
Title: Nudes got away in Salisbury.
Post by: Bob Knows on April 27, 2018, 04:46:50 PM
Wiltshire's Police Chief Constable has called on people in Salisbury to 'behave this summer' after a couple were caught having sex in a public place in the city.

The pair were spotted in a field near Queen Elizabeth Gardens at around 5.45pm last Friday evening (April 20th).

When police turned up, the couple ran away, naked, in the direction of Harnham.

A man in his 20s and a woman in her 40s have been asked to attend a police interview over what happened, for outraging public decency.

TOP COP'S REACTION:

The county's chief police officer has waded into the story too now, saying there must be 'something in the air in Salisbury'.

Kier Pritchard's tweeted his thoughts on what happened:

    "There's something in the air in Salisbury... something that shouldn't be seen in public! Behave this summer, we've already got enough to deal with!"

Outraging public decency is a criminal offence which can be punished with an unlimited prison sentence or fine.


https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2564640/chief-constable-calls-on-salisbury-to-behave-after-public-indecency/
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on April 27, 2018, 05:26:42 PM
That's not naturism.

But several years ago, when Steven Gough was making his trek home after being released from prison in Scotland, he happened to pass by a school just as the children were being let out. Several parents called the police, and he was arrested and charged with "Outraging public decency" instead of the more usual public order offense. He spent a couple of months in prison awaiting trial, and then the charges were dropped. I thought then that "Outraging public decency" was some medieval anachronism that hadn't been used in a century, but when I looked it up I saw that it's used a few hundred times a year in the UK, most typically for public sexual activity. But it's interesting that there was a 80-year lapse in the use of the law, ending in 1989.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on April 27, 2018, 05:59:15 PM
Its becoming more and more apparent that a significant portion of the public is not "outraged" by human bodies being seen in public.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 27, 2018, 09:24:52 PM
My issue here has nothing to do with the breastfeeding. I tend to wonder whether the mother has her priorities mixed up. Raising her child or furthering her political career. You get one opportunity to raise that child. Blow it and there are no do-overs.

Plus your multi-tasking with a baby tends to hold proceedings up. A sort of self-centered personality.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 27, 2018, 09:25:42 PM
So, a deranged individual acts out and everyone focuses on the clothes, the weapon etc.

Why is the mental health not the primary focus here?
Because no one knows how to fix that in a 24 hour news cycle!

Take away the weapon or make’em get dressed and everyone can dust off their hands and pretend to have fixed the problem. See, lazy thinking again.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on April 27, 2018, 09:33:32 PM
I agree with that Bob. Seen against more serious events in the country and world most folks look at the report and just wonder, “So What?”

Is there such a thing as “public” decency? Who decides this? Was there a vote or campaign? When did this happen? Maybe it’s time that the definitions should be updated by resolution every 10 years. I did a search for “dumb laws still on the books” and it reads like a stand-up comedy routine. It’s all very funny until they get dragged out at an opportune moment. The problem is they are laws, they are on the books and people use them.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on April 27, 2018, 10:55:23 PM
Who gets to decide if you're crazy or not? Remember, in a democracy like the United States, people can vote to put someone to death (in some states, if they're guilty).

I'm not sure if there's a name for it, but it seems like those with the loudest voices run things. We talk democracy all the time and try, usually unsuccessfully, to remake other counties' governments in our image, sort of. And then there are those who call themselves conservatives who do their best (or rather, worst) to keep people from voting, at least for the other candidate, if not their own.

I'm jaded.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 28, 2018, 08:44:32 AM
I don't think rhat you are jaded. Your statement has lots of validity, reality, and concern.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 28, 2018, 08:54:30 AM
I'm not sure where to put this, but a murderer/rapist (50 women) operating for decades has been caught by DNA. He is 72 now. He operated in Sacramento area and outward. He was the subject of an extremely obsessed, and passionate investigation according to the officials and victims tha were interviewed. I was listening to this when it was on TV news network.

A few years ago, NAC was telling about a nude man out on the trails around that rapists realm. The authorities sent out helicopter and all kinds of search procedure. It made no sense to me, until now. They were desperately looking for this monster. That explains the waste of resources in concern with what was simply a nude hiker.

The heats off in that area apparently.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on April 28, 2018, 05:36:29 PM
I'm not sure where to put this, but a murderer/rapist (50 women) operating for decades has been caught by DNA. He is 72 now. He operated in Sacramento area and outward. He was the subject of an extremely obsessed, and passionate investigation according to the officials and victims tha were interviewed. I was listening to this when it was on TV news network.

A few years ago, NAC was telling about a nude man out on the trails around that rapists realm. The authorities sent out helicopter and all kinds of search procedure. It made no sense to me, until now. They were desperately looking for this monster. That explains the waste of resources in concern with what was simply a nude hiker.

The heats off in that area apparently.
Jbee


It turned out the guy was a cop.  When the search was on he simply took off his mask and wore his uniform.   For 40 years its not known if the cops were incompetent or were protecting a cop.

In 2017 a TV producer hired a couple of detectives to film an investigation for one of the cable channels.   Despite the case and evidence being decades old it only took them a few months to solve the mystery. 

The killer cop was never arrested in all those decades.  Somehow I have suspicions that the cops weren't really trying. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on April 28, 2018, 10:14:25 PM
I once knew an ex-murder detective who matter of fact, considered and ready to argue the remark, stated. "Most cops aren't very bright."
I dunno, can't be sure, maybe they weren't, maybe the wrong ones were on it. It would be too complex to say that they messed up, or not. Sometimes the hunter is ashamed of his defeat and gives up. Going on for decades, I'm sure quite a few did.
People like to think of themselves as the good guys. Hiding someone who continued to hurt so many, to me, would just be too much for to many. I think that it would have come out.

Anyway, that odd wave of heat in Northern Cal is probably over.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on April 29, 2018, 11:15:46 PM

Quote from: johnP
several years ago, when Steven Gough was making his trek home

What's happened to Gough? I recall he went to live with his Mother - is that the end of his exploits?  Sad waste of time if so as his campaign might have made more impression if he kept it going but from a less combative point of view. 
Whilst I never really could agree with Gough's methods and approaches, I admired him for his toughness and ability to hike naked for weeks and months around the country.  Takes grit and resilience when it's cold and rainy.

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on April 30, 2018, 12:46:37 AM
Yes, Steve Gough said he would be giving up public nudity because he had to stay out of prison in order to care for his mother, who was in failing health. But then I heard that she died, and he hasn't been back in the news since. I wonder if he got used to not being between prison walls, and decided to live the textile life.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 02, 2018, 09:35:42 PM
Thankfully we are not a pure democracy.  :P
And vote manipulation goes on in all quarters eras and societies. It doesn’t rest solely within one party or another. Policy action occurs when the pressure to do so reaches levels that politicians and bureaucrats can no longer ignore it. It’s a sloppy system that has the benefit of moving slowly.
 
Stuffing ballot boxes (LBJ), populating registration rolls with names of the dead (Daley), gerrymandering (everywhere) and all sorts of new high tech methods some of which we haven’t heard of yet. Blue, red or purple it has gone on for years it in an effort to maintain or replace the status with a new quo.  :o

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 02, 2018, 09:38:23 PM
Milfmog posted an article on the old TSNS site on an interview with Mr. Gough. Unfortunately it’s gone so I can’t refer to it, but as I recall he essentially ceded to his wife the responsibility for raising the children during his whole conflict with the government.

Some may think that a noble cause, but if you can’t be bothered to take care of the responsibility of child rearing, maybe you shouldn’t be having them. At least he remembered his obligations to his mother.

I saw the two agendas as part of the whole.
I was not impressed with the way he handled himself in that regard.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on May 02, 2018, 10:27:52 PM
I was totally impressed with him - but not favourably.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on May 02, 2018, 10:37:58 PM

Stuffing ballot boxes (LBJ), populating registration rolls with names of the dead (Daley), gerrymandering (everywhere) and all sorts of new high tech methods some of which we haven’t heard of yet. Blue, red or purple it has gone on for years it in an effort to maintain or replace the status with a new quo.  :o

Duane

As far as I know, there is no legal requirement for the dead to take action to removed themselves from the voter rolls, or for that matter, anyone else, either.  Perhaps you could volunteer to be a poll worker.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 03, 2018, 02:02:55 AM
When we petitioned to incorporate our town, we had to have a percentage of voters to do any petition. With "20%" dead, or having left the state, it was that much more difficult. It keeps we the people from receiving first amendment protections and Arizona Constitutional law, ie. petitioning the government.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on May 03, 2018, 03:18:14 PM
When we petitioned to incorporate our town, we had to have a percentage of voters to do any petition. With "20%" dead, or having left the state, it was that much more difficult. It keeps we the people from receiving first amendment protections and Arizona Constitutional law, ie. petitioning the government.
Jbee

Perhaps you will like the revised US census being prepared for 2020.  It will only count living US and state citizens.  That will make it easier for people like  yourself to get petitions signed. 

Bob
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 03, 2018, 10:21:16 PM
We need percentage of registered "voters." Oh well. Census is what is used to gerrymander and stack decks corrupting in any way possible.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on May 04, 2018, 08:48:02 AM
These are all just further examples of the "Golden Rule" -
He who has the gold makes the rules.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 05, 2018, 02:13:52 AM
The census doesn’t mean they are registered voters, only citizens. At least it used to mean that. A person has to get up and actively register. At least it used to mean that.

Good luck with the move and new sweat!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 05, 2018, 02:15:04 AM
Quote from: JOhnGW
These are all just further examples of the "Golden Rule" -
He who has the gold makes the rules.

These days it’s more like,
He who has the gold connections makes the rules.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on May 05, 2018, 10:43:18 AM
It's the gold that gets the connections.

I haven't noticed any mention of nudes in the news lately, not positive, anyway. But several years ago, when I still watched television, there was a news story about a local fitness club (or whatever it was) that hosted a nude night for (presumably) a local non-landed nudist club. There were kids in the video portion, though nothing was shown full-frontal, although from the back nothing was hidden. I may have mentioned this before. It must have been a slow news day or something.

A few years later there was a story somewhere on television about the nude beaches on the North Sea in Germany. Again full-nudity, but only from the back. The story was, I think, about how there were objections to the nudity from what had been East Germany. That may have been in connection with the relatively recent reunification of Germany. So that may have been a while. I also recall an article in a nudist magazine (which was probably 40 or 50 years ago) about some Germany nudist club located within sight of the border with East Germany.

We do have a television here and my wife watches it a lot. But she likes British TV, for which there is a local station, but I can't understand the dialogue. I could barely understand anyone when we travelled in the UK a few years ago.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on May 05, 2018, 06:24:59 PM
You've got that backward, Blue Train. East Germany was a repressive society, but one thing people were allowed to do was be naked, at least on beaches. Now there's some resentment of the fact that West Germans sometimes visit the east, and make it clear that they object to nudity! But in general in Germany, you never have to travel far to find an accepted nude beach, and even if there isn't one, you won't have any trouble if you're naked, as long as you keep some distance from other people.

A while ago I read about an amusing word--"Ostalgia". ("Ost" being the German for "east".) The end of East Germany is far enough in the past now that people can have a few pleasant memories about it. One thing is that the "East German Crossing Man" from pedestrian crossings, has now become familiar in the west too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampelm%C3%A4nnchen

A while ago there was a picture being circulated that was claimed to show Angela Merkel (who grew up in East Germany) as a young woman, on a nude beach. I don't recall that she ever confirmed or denied that it was her, but in Germany it wouldn't be embarrassing if it were true.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 05, 2018, 07:53:06 PM
I saw some of those Merkel photos somewhere. Sure did look like her, it had some background to verify them. She has been aloof about the "allegations" that she was naked on a beach in East Germany. It was something of a non denile denile. Could have been a hoak...it shouldn't be important, but it would be great for her to non-apologetically admit it.

I'm remembering the JAckie-O nude snatches and the uproar, the humility, the anger of some that she was being exploited, but everyone had to have a look, the monetary value of the photographic property, the scandal that she would do that, "Jackie wouldn't do that, it must be a fake!" "Heavens!" Merkel isn't America's darling, and the photos are old of a younger person before she became a public figure, and from the "olden times" of East Germany, but the hoopla seems to show that people's attitudes about simple nudity is improving, or should I say, naked celebrities are getting somewhat old hat.

It can erode cultural standards incrementally, step by step."If someone famous can brush off everyone seeing them naked, then I suppose that it ain't no thing and not the end of my world if my body is seen", then it may follow, "being nude, seen nude, seeing others nude is okay."
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on May 05, 2018, 08:22:54 PM
When I lived in Germany, the place to go was Croatia. If you go to the North Sea beaches, take a sweater.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on May 05, 2018, 10:18:15 PM
When I lived in Germany, the place to go was Croatia. If you go to the North Sea beaches, take a sweater.
Precisely - the North Sea is often cold but is usually colder.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on May 05, 2018, 10:25:58 PM
My daughter also lived in Germany for three years, not too far from Trier, but they never went to the beach.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on May 06, 2018, 12:39:01 AM
A beach doesn't have to be on the ocean! Last summer three friends and I went on the Naked European Walking tour, and we finished up in Germany visiting some tourist sites in Bavaria. One place we went was up the Zugspitze, the highest point in Germany, which is a tourist trip by cog railway, then afterward we walked out beside the Eibsee, an incredibly beautiful lake overlooked by the mountain. Someone told us that there was a nude beach there, but we never found it; with the day coming to an end, we just decided we'd come far enough, and we enjoyed the remaining sunlight with a swim. There were other people nearby, some nude and some clothed. If anyone cared, they didn't tell us.
(https://i.imgur.com/5CQq7Llt.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/5CQq7Ll.jpg)
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on May 06, 2018, 10:42:05 AM
Once, when working in Massachusetts the summer after I finished high school, I was surprised to learn that not all beaches have sand, although the beach in question was in Connecticut.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 06, 2018, 04:04:57 PM
Connections, in a country with massive government intervention, are infinitely more valuable than gold. If you control what law enforcement does, it doesn’t matter how much gold you have. Just look at the countries with oligarchs running the markets with the blessings of the government.

The world turned upside down.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 06, 2018, 04:05:28 PM
JohnP, that was in the summer, yes? Was the lake as cold as the North Sea?

It is a beautiful spot. Was it included in the pictorial you did after getting home?

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 06, 2018, 04:06:30 PM
What a deal! Get paid for being naked! (https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/naked-nude-nudist-naturist-cleaner-1406875)
Unfortunately, the best spots seem to all be for women. But naked cleaners for naturists and nudists that don’t have time to do their own house keeping is a good idea whose time has come.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on May 08, 2018, 03:14:01 AM
JohnP, that was in the summer, yes? Was the lake as cold as the North Sea?

It is a beautiful spot. Was it included in the pictorial you did after getting home?

Duane

Yes, last August. I can't say how cold the North Sea would be, but that lake at the foot of the Alps was pretty comfortable, in spite of streams flowing down off the snowfields! Not sure what you mean about "the pictorial". The pictures I posted here? I actually ran out of energy there, and stopped posting them before I reached the end of the trip. Should I resume that project?
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on May 08, 2018, 12:12:16 PM
Connections, in a country with massive government intervention, are infinitely more valuable than gold. If you control what law enforcement does, it doesn’t matter how much gold you have. Just look at the countries with oligarchs running the markets with the blessings of the government.
Duane

Doesn't have to be "massive government intervention." It can even be in a place with practically no government. All that is necessary is a few powerful people, not necessarily rich, either. Basic feudalism.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 08, 2018, 11:14:03 PM
Yep! Power is a much more potent aphrodisiac than gold.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 08, 2018, 11:14:40 PM
Sorry John, I assumed (my bad) that you were also posting those after you got home.

Yes, the “pictorial” I was referring to was in fact your photo report of the trip. I was aware you were posting from the trail, but I thought you had finished up after returning home.

I find the presentation of such a large group of people with an interest in naturism wonderful. It keeps me hopeful of eventually finding a group, even if it is small.

Yes! Finish it! If it’s no trouble, more photos would be great.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 09, 2018, 06:17:05 AM
Yep! Power is a much more potent aphrodisiac than gold.

Duane
Not in my experience, or observations.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: JOhnGw on May 09, 2018, 03:10:12 PM
But gold or its equivalent has always been closely associated with power and influence, although distinguishing cause and effect is often more difficult.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on May 09, 2018, 05:09:11 PM
Well, typically those who run things have the most wealth, although not necessarily literally in gold. But you have to think small and dismiss the idea of a massive government. After all, local government affects your life more than the state or federal government. It's complicated, though. Governments usually don't try to control your every thought, even though that seems to be the aim of the more extreme governments, both on the left and the right. That's called totalitarianism. In the small towns and counties that most of us probably grew up in, there were wealthy people who basically did everything in local government, although "wealthy" is highly elastic and not to be confused with the super-wealthy of today. We'll talk about them in a minute.

The local gentry and professionals took an interest in civic affairs because that's where they lived. They were born there and so had their parents and grandparents. True, they benefited more than other people but you probably knew where they stood.

Today, I think there is a lack of such people because local businesses are not what they used to be. Instead, you have branches of chain stores the managers of which are beholden to someone halfway across the country. All they care about is the bottom line and the possibility of promotion so they can move somewhere else. But none of this makes any difference to us who are interested in nudist affairs.

The problem is that the wealthy make rules for the rest of us to follow but which they don't have to follow themselves. We can't be nude at home in the backyard (you would say "garden"). They fly off to Jamaica and do whatever they please. Life is not fair.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 09, 2018, 06:11:19 PM
When younger, I strove to amass lots of money to buy my freedom, to position me. In many ways, it created dependence on the buck, fear of losing the gain, a sense of power from what I did to protect the wealth. I was raised to believe that measures had to be taken and that the dominate natural human trait is a dog eat dog society. I was a warrior making his way through a world of fears and distrust.

All the while, I was experimenting, stripping away the silly social context that I inherited. I was trying to define what it was, what personal utopia that I was escaping to, what I would create for myself with that wealth. Then, the other Jbee was a child of the sixties, kind of a hippie, part of a social revolution.

The money corrupted as over indulgence. Hey, money is fun.

So, some things happened to me and now I'm finding each moment, nature, heart and a different sense of security. I surround myself with nice people and they are out there, because such attracts nice. I look at the better parts of others, not their potential flaws and treat them accordingly. The most genuine tend to have less fear, they can feel safe enough to get naked around others, as it is quite often. When I shake off the drapery, I shake off quite a bit more than those drapes. When I'm living without clothing, my focus is more away from the negatives, the driven, the fearful, the exploiting. It may sound like placing oneself in a dream world, but it actually pans out as more like living an alternative. It doesn't cost as much as my youthful Jbee would have conceived.

So, where do you want to live? What is authentic? How can we skirt around the dominate sickness, the unfair, and find and be some kind of light in the darkness? If you were lost in the darkness of a cave, wouldn't you search for light, gather it, appreciate it, and use it to find more to sustain it? The simple wonderful act of experiencing natural nudity is like a torch for me in the darkness. It helps to illuminate my life and promotes inner peace. Not just a trip report, but walking to the fridge and getting a glass of water, and experiencing that, too.

Hmmm, a naked philosopher now, too....
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on May 11, 2018, 03:12:31 AM
All right Duane (and everyone else?) I've posted a final set of pictures in the Trip Report section. Then there will be some from Germany, and that'll be it for last summer. Just in time for this summer!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 15, 2018, 06:01:18 AM
What's happening this summer? The Summer Gathering and...? The My big plans bucket list is not going off this year. I'm still making adjustments, but the trajectory is in.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on May 22, 2018, 08:26:30 PM
Quote
The Summer Gathering and...?
? ? ?

Summer gathering and some are not. :D
Was there a plan to have one? Who? What? When? Where? Why?
Details!!

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on May 23, 2018, 04:00:12 AM
I believe JBG is referring to the Eastern Naturist Gathering, which I started a thread about in Factory Farmed Naturism. Details here:
http://www.naturist.com/tns/n_events/TNS_Events.html

Everyone should come!
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on May 23, 2018, 03:19:51 PM
I believe JBG is referring to the Eastern Naturist Gathering, which I started a thread about in Factory Farmed Naturism. Details here:
http://www.naturist.com/tns/n_events/TNS_Events.html

Everyone should come!


More likely JBG refers to the Rainbow Tribe summer gathering that he has posted about before.  Its been his thing for many years. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on May 23, 2018, 06:09:01 PM
I was referring to the Eastern Gathering and asking John P. if he had any nude adventure planned for the coming season.

Rainbow is back east however. I'd like to do both within an epic road-trip, but this year is being usurped by change and the push to get through it.
Jbee
Title: Cambridge Feminist Prof shows up with "nude" body cover.
Post by: Bob Knows on June 26, 2018, 06:44:41 PM
Not nude but see through body cover

Quote
Bateman made news last week when she arrived to a university function wearing nothing but a completely transparent leotard and evening shoes.

In response to a volley of criticism she had received, Bateman told Pluralist on Tuesday that her provocative act was part of a fight against what she sees as a regressive trend in attitudes toward women.

"The world is on the edge of moving backwards rather than forwards in regard to women's freedom," she said over email. "That includes women's freedom to dress as they wish - at both ends of the spectrum."

There was no mention of any consideration of arresting her for exposure. 

 
https://www.pluralist.com/posts/1212-cambridge-professor-who-showed-up-naked-to-dinner-says-she-got-verbal-abuse-from-women
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on June 26, 2018, 07:17:32 PM
Uh huh. I imagine that the men at this event were wearing the standard male uniform--full coverage in some form, anyway. And how welcome would a deviation from that have been? All she's doing is the standard "women on display" format, just a bit more extreme than at the Academy Awards.

I assume that under British law, and given that it was indoors anyway, she wasn't running much risk of arrest. But then again, if it's "conduct likely to cause alarm and distress"--perhaps that could lead to trouble.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2018, 08:21:10 PM
Bless her. Universities are often where revolutionary ideas take hold and get distributed.

She is making a great point. At a place as tight as Cambridge, at least by reputation presented to me (I probably don't know enough about Cambridge), she has guts.

This reminds me of the liberation of the bra. Women's insecurities, the usual social and workplace pressure and in a few years they were back to bras. It wasn't men that did this to women, it was women. A few male employers made prudish requirements, but it was women. I'm not surprised by the reactions either.

Men do the same to men, except the reaction would be very different, if a male prof tried to pull this off.

I think that she was making conversation, getting people to think. More women should do things of this ilk to get the talk going. I don't think that this compares with the red carpet dresses. That is calculated to get recognition, a splash, for money and career promotion in Hollywood. At a local college ball it is not the same. She is wearing a compromised nude outfit, instead of a provocative tease ensemble designed by a high couture designer. She is a prof, not a sex symbol. Motive and lack of decoration sets her apart. It is not meant to be sexy, but she doesn't dismiss being sexy as particularly wrong. I think that it would be akin to comparing naked bike ride to a red carpet.

It would help women's liberation, if issues like this included both genders. Isn't the ultimate goal equality, choice, liberation?

Her point goes along with much of the points made on the "Legalize Public Nudity --- Free our bodies and our minds!" thread that was systematically high-jacketed, diminished and censored.
http://freerangenaturism.com/forum/index.php?topic=1115.0
Jbe
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on June 26, 2018, 10:47:42 PM
An in your face demonstration of double standards. Way to go!

Now this is interesting. She clearly intended to cause a dust up. Yet was she nude? Technically, no. Metaphorically, yes! For the purposes she intended, yes. She was also in a private function, not out in the public. As JohnP mused, will someone try to use the recent law modifications to correct her behavior?

I was recently reading an article about how the harassment of women exists even in the hallowed halls of science. Apparently, highly educated men will also behave like pubescent teenagers. I have read more than once of women scientists (https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130519-women-scientists-overlooked-dna-history-science/) that have either made discoveries or achieved breakthrough research only to have tenured male colleagues take over and get credit.

Hope she doesn’t allow the headwinds to slow her down.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2018, 11:10:39 PM
I'd like to read her papers, or muse. I'd bet that she has come up with some interesting ideas as a woman's perspective in liberation, equality and body liberation, considering the many perspectives in the movement, today.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on June 26, 2018, 11:16:10 PM

As you can see from the pictures in the article the people in the background are wearing not only clothes but their academic gowns as well! This is typical of functions in Cambridge and Oxford especially of 'domestic' gatherings in colleges.  Good for Victoria Bateman - she is obviously not one who has body hang ups.  The big puzzle is why she chose that function and that attire.  She would have made as big an impact in terms of standout from the stuffy subfusc dress of the college common room, if she had worn, say, a clown outfit or a boiler suit or just had her breasts on show.  She was outrageously dressed for the event but not nude - her pubic region is covered and she was wearing a garment.  Using nudity to illustrate womens' choices, I rather feel, muddies the issue as those choices are in many areas other than dress.
John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 26, 2018, 11:32:29 PM
Uh huh. I imagine that the men at this event were wearing the standard male uniform--full coverage in some form, anyway. And how welcome would a deviation from that have been? All she's doing is the standard "women on display" format, just a bit more extreme than at the Academy Awards.

I assume that under British law, and given that it was indoors anyway, she wasn't running much risk of arrest. But then again, if it's "conduct likely to cause alarm and distress"--perhaps that could lead to trouble.

Would a man doing the same have been fired from his university job?   Probably. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on June 26, 2018, 11:35:09 PM

Quite so, Bob.
I think perhaps women have freedoms already that men don't.

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on June 26, 2018, 11:44:29 PM
I was recently reading an article about how the harassment of women exists even in the hallowed halls of science. Apparently, highly educated men will also behave like pubescent teenagers. I have read more than once of women scientists (https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130519-women-scientists-overlooked-dna-history-science/) that have either made discoveries or achieved breakthrough research only to have tenured male colleagues take over and get credit.
Duane

Their first example female was dead, and they admit that the Nobel Committee never awards to dead scientists, male or female.  Then they claim sexist discrimination by the Nobel Committee.  Nonsense hate speech.

From that link: 
Quote
1943, Jocelyn Bell Burnell discovered pulsars in 1967 while still a graduate student in radio astronomy at Cambridge
(cut)
The finding resulted in a Nobel Prize, but the 1974 award in physics went to Anthony Hewish—Bell Burnell's supervisor


In typical misleading anger the article pretends that somehow women grad students are being discriminated against.  NONSENSE. That is standard practice for men graduate students as well as women students.  My uncle, for example, invented a very profitable process for the oil business while a grad student.  His Professor and the Uni claimed and owned his invention.  The grad student is legally assisting the Professor doing his research.  Whatever he or she invents is legally the Professor's invention.  And, in fact, the Professor has supposedly been educating and steering the grad student.   So all the feminist sniveling in this article is hateful nonsense. 

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 26, 2018, 11:53:33 PM

 Using nudity to illustrate womens' choices, I rather feel, muddies the issue as those choices are in many areas other than dress.
John
How do you find that so? I'm thinking that they are more intertwined. Costuming in socio/cultural sense of ones self, etc. Please, elaborate.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on June 27, 2018, 06:13:52 PM
The obituary of Turner Stokes appeared in the Washington Post. He was president of what was the ASA at the time for a couple of years in the 1980s and an activist for legal nude beaches. He was 90 and a local resident. One of his goals was to create a nude beach on Assateague Island on Virginia's Eastern Shore but the publicity that was generated resulted in an anti-nudity ordinance. After that, he moved to the Maryland side but park rangers began enforcing a state ban on public nudity.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 06:38:06 PM
"The NAked Guy" in Berkley is another example of an activist, getting in the face of authorities, making publicity and creating anti-nudity laws in response. I couldn't help but think of these when I was reading about these new body freedom rulings in the Isles and people then actually practicing their rights.

Another example, was that young man walking nude down the street in Kansas. No one knew that there was no anti nudity law. They just assumed it. The local council managed to sweep the issue under the table by tabling a vote until things calmed down, I believe.

That's why I mention New York Topfree law and how little that the freedom is exercised. You make the freedom to do something and then slowly culture and social responses will change. That area of Virginia has been backward. Apparently it still is. It was probably a bad place to pick a battle.

The backlash is more manageable when people stop believing their fears that naked people will be everywhere and scratching their balls in public places, when reality is that a few will actually mind their own business.

We can't just sit back and take it. Nothing has changed by not making the attempt, assuming that we will lose, accepting the status quo. Getting ahead of ourselves is the mistake.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on June 27, 2018, 10:07:09 PM
As far as that place in Virginia being backward, I don't know. I have been nude on the beach there, however, something like 35 years ago. But if your goal is to have a legal nude beach, what better place than at the beach?

For a forum that (apparently) derived from a secret naturist forum, you should agree that in-your-face, confrontational nudity is going to backfire most of the time. I don't know how Stokes went about his campaigning but from the obituary, it was an interview in Playboy, of all places, that created the waves. There have been a few other places that used to be recognized as fairly safe places for outdoor nudity but over time, things presumably happened that pushed things over the edge and now those places are specifically posted as not allowing public nudity. All I can say is there's a difference between being nude on a public beach in broad daylight and a nude ramble in the backwoods up in the hills. All the same, there are probably still some good beaches to visit where you won't disturb anyone if you're willing to go the (literally) extra distance. But be warned: I know from personal experience that the beach patrols have very powerful binoculars.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on June 27, 2018, 11:06:47 PM


 Using nudity to illustrate womens' choices, I rather feel, muddies the issue as those choices are in many areas other than dress.
John

How do you find that so? I'm thinking that they are more intertwined. Costuming in socio/cultural sense of ones self, etc. Please, elaborate.



In the particular context, reading that the purpose of her attire was to illustrate a female making a choice, I felt that nudity was a bit of an odd choice to select.  Whilst it is indeed an example of a choice to dress as one likes,
nudity carries all sorts of other confusing connotations.  I
felt that nudity which prompts in many people, as we know, a Pavlovian reflex to see first the sexual connotations and assumptions of perverse behaviour, was maybe a poor choice to illustrate her point about the wider choice issues of gender equality and freedoms in that particular environment
What other choices could she have made in the circumstances that might better illustrate her argument at that gathering?  A different form of dress possibly.  But surely her point is not solely about dress - the it is about job opportunity, economic participation, equal pay, reproductive choices etc etc.  Perhaps a plaque or a badge might have prompted the conversation without the baggage of talking to a nearly nude woman in the college common room. 
Whilst I would heartily support her viewpoint that there should be equal life choices whatever your gender, or at least that choice should not be limited to one gender or the other, I think her choice of method to make the point was perhaps rather heavy handed and confusing. 
She makes the point about how people, particularly women, connote the body with sin and shame and she was, I guess, making the point about that - if she doesn't feel it is sin and shame to show your body (and I entirely agree, of course), why should anybody else?  So go to the meeting dressed in that way.  But in the same article and the same meeting her point was about far more than just dress sense and body acceptance.  So I felt that those other, probably more vital, aspects got sidelined by the inferior debate over whether one should see her tits over the sherry glass!
I wonder what the actual reception was in the room on that occasion?  The article is silent on this.  Is the picture indicative of the response of the gowned academics i.e. go to the other side of the room and ignore her?  Or was it just that the person taking the picture called her over and it looks as though she's isolated?  Or was this not an isolated incident?  Maybe she's routinely a little firecracker - always sparking up contention. Maybe the other academics all said "Hi Vicky!  What are you up to today? Oh dress protest this week is it?  Very good.  Better than last week's buckets of custard and ketchup for animal welfare, old girl!" and as usual they all turned round to discuss the latest philosophical paper by the college dean.
John

   
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 11:15:52 PM
I don't exactly know what you mean by "confrontational nudity." We all know that confrontation can backfire on us as a strategy. Perhaps you could explain that.

Taking the risk of being seen depends upon who and where you encounter. You are unlikely to meet someone on a trail that objects. When you increase the population around you, you would, by the odds, increase the likelihood of encountering the vocal odd fool that might object. That is numbers.

There is a certain sense of ownership and belonging inherent with more urban situations and psychologist that also may contribute to someone more likely to object. Some people generally dislike anything that seems out of place to them. These people don't do a very good job of questioning or intellectual processing. They do a lot of assuming and accepting social mores and habits.

So, depending on what you actually mean by the phrase, I probably could disagree and show you some numbers why. Whatever you are saying, you aren't supporting your statement. I suspect that you have no supportive evidence and are just calling something fact that you pulled out of an assumption hat. There are plenty of myths about nudity among the textile obsessionists.

 "All the same, there are probably still some good beaches to visit where you won't disturb anyone if you're willing to go the (literally) extra distance." There is an assumption of disturbing someone. Let alone that one is justifiably disturbed and not just a jerk, most people on a more remote beach location will not be alarmed, as is the story on a trail. If you do it on Miami beach, with all of those people, some one will not like it. Most don't care much, or they approve. I've got statistics for that one, which are somewhere in this forum.

Blue train, how is it that you are disturbed by someone enjoying anything nude? How is anyone disturbed by anyone being nude? Why would you would assume this?

There are very powerful binoculars. But then somebody has to use them for a purpose. If you are alone minding your own business on a beach nude, in most places you are disturbing no one, alarming no one and breaking no laws. That's what a beach patrol will see with those binoculars. No intent whatsoever. You are presenting, again, typical textile fear mongering as fact. Why do you spread fear mongering crap. Unreality. Is it that you want to discourage naturism, free range naturism and progress?

It is curious that Playboy of old had anything to do with this beach thing. It just associated the free beach, naturist population with the sexual objectification playboy mentality. Playboy got thrown under the counter away from the kids as some kind of adult entertainment by the same people who it confronts. With associations like playboy, these same influences will kill any nude beach as another nasty thing. Playboy was not a good place to promote a nude beach, but a good place to discuss body freedom and a good place to confront Playboy for its antiquated shortcomings. If that was the case. Playboy was a step into change that needed to happen at that time. Things are evolving socially from that point when Playboy made significant difference.
Jbee

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 27, 2018, 11:27:36 PM
Yes, Nuduke, certainly we are left in the dark about the reaction. I think that it is certain that she got plenty of reaction of all sorts and had plenty of opportunity to discuss her point of view with all the broader connotations associated with body freedom and women's lib. I'm thinking that that was her purpose and it worked. When someone makes a bold costuming statement like that, men's eyes often glaze over and they listen. They may even ask, "What the hell are you doing?" and she has her opening.;D
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on June 27, 2018, 11:51:47 PM
My comments are mostly based on my own experiences. Did I say I was disturbed by someone enjoying anything nude? If I did, I take it back. But sometimes other people are disturbed by naked people, to be sure. Otherwise, I doubt those signs I mentioned would have been put up. Don't assume away the problems by saying that it is unlikely that someone you meet on the trail would be bothered. I've had bad reactions when I was wearing shorts and no shirt. I've had the police called on me and I'm had warnings given to me by the beach patrol. That's what I base my assumptions on, past experiences as a prediction of future experiences. But there were only a few times that I came close to getting in trouble. They never stopped me from doing anything.

I didn't think "confrontational" was that difficult to understand. I'm not trying to spread fear, just telling you about my own experiences. The beach patrol was there to enforce the rules. Maybe it was the particular beach (North Carolina). Some people are very conservative, going on reactionary.

"Ownership" is an interesting way to put it. In the backcountry, particularly around certain hot springs, none of which I've visited, I understand that sometimes the custom is that the first ones there set the standards of dress. There are a few mentions in Park Service regulations (maybe Forest Service) where allowable nudity is alluded to.

Please stop turning everything I say upside down. Everything I mentioned is real. These things happened to me.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on June 28, 2018, 12:09:59 AM

JBee,
I am guilty of analysing but one aspect of the matter - i.e. the article as presented.  I realised this as I had fleshed out my opinion in my last post in response to your prompting but I had not gone further than that article.  So I looked up Victoria Bateman and she is a very publicly prominent figure and academic.  Her website expands considerably on her views and it appears that this article describes but one piece of campaigning in a well reasoned overall campaign that causes her to use her body to consistently make the point about personal choice and freedom. I recommend you and other readers have a look at her website http://vnbateman.com/index.html and possibly other google results.
I found this nugget which clearly explains her position:
Quote
It is through this public reaction to the naked body that we are truly able to judge the extent to which society is (or is not) comfortable with women taking control of their own bodies . Where society is disapproving, it serves to show that we still have a long way to go before women are free to use their bodies as they wish.
  I am reconsidering my own opinion therefore.  Whilst as a one off event her state of undress might be considered confusing to her overall proposition, as I explained in my last post, I now find that her repeated use of nudity and considerable media presence talking about her position puts this instance in the context of a much more intelligent and purposeful campaign. Perhaps more women AND MEN should join her in getting naked and challenging public reactions in carefully controlled circumstances, as Bateman does.  Those instances that she resorted to nudity to make the point were done in safe circumstances and pretty certainly well planned (i.e. being nude in a radio studio, being the subject of a nude portrait and the seclusion of the college common room). 
So I'm afraid I shall have to attenuate my opinion and side with Prof Bateman in her campaign of well chosen instances where she may use nudity to illustrate her views on freedom of women to make choices about their bodies.  Mark you, I look for the male colleague to Bateman and other women protesters for equality that might take up the cause and bring to the fore those areas where men suffer reciprocally
(but not Gough, please!!)

John

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 28, 2018, 12:31:18 AM
Thank-you for the link. I shall dig deeper. This sounds fresh and well thought out.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on June 28, 2018, 12:55:16 AM
Only 1% to 3% are offended and will say something on trails according to the experiences of several 15 or twenty representing many hundreds of encounters. These are people who have had nude experience on the trails encountering textiled people. This is not one person's experience. I found it surprising, too.

"Please stop turning everything I say upside down. Everything I mentioned is real. These things happened to me." I'll work hard toward that. I'll disagree when I do. If you say that it happened to you, I can't disagree very well, but drawing a conclusion from what happened to you is up for debate.
Jbee



 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on July 03, 2018, 11:32:01 PM
I don't exactly know what you mean by "confrontational nudity." We all know that confrontation can backfire on us as a strategy. Perhaps you could explain that.

Well, it can. But some years back there was that British activist Vincent Bethell, who went around naked and was arrested several times. This was before the Sexual Offences Act of 2003, but he still wasn't accused of anything sexual--they called it "Creating a public nuisance". And naturists said all he'd achieve would be setting a legal precedent that nudity is offensive and illegal (but like Steve Gough, Bethell made no claim to be a naturist). To everyone's surprise, though, the jury found him not guilty, and it was a major step along the way to the present situation in Britain, where the law hardly regards nonsexual nudity as worth noticing. It seemed different back then, though! You could say that Bethell gambled and won, but it still doesn't make gambling a wise thing to do.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on July 04, 2018, 12:52:26 AM
If I tried something like that and got away with it, my wife would, well, do something. Here, however, you might be jailed for "disturbing the peace." It's a vague offense, rather like vagrancy, but I suppose it's useful.

In my youth, which only ended three months ago when I retired (I'm 71), I did a lot of risky things. Not by some people's standards, mind you, but risky nonetheless. Some, maybe most, of that included outdoor nudity, though not exactly public. Public nudity can be an odd thing. Even then, there can be conventions. Like, you can be totally nude on the beach but not on the boardwalk where the beach begins. I guess it's just a case of manners and we don't get to make up the rules unless your name is Amy or Emily. Anyway, I didn't think I was gambling. I was just taking chances.

It goes without saying that both the law and social conventions (manners) are neither fairly or evenly enforced. That's an issue in itself.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 04, 2018, 06:52:20 AM
My younger risks were always calculated. I'd whittle it down to as positively safe in the 90 percentile, then throw my balls under my shoulder and go. The unexpected would happen. I had options, contingencies, I prayed a lot. I did things that I couldn't afford to lose. It wasn't taking a chance either. Gambling is calculated, or you are not professional. You are playing odds and have to know those and hope to optimize them. So, this is semantics and I agree with you both.

Bethel had a plan and a passion. It never sounded to me so haphazard as you describe. He seemed to know what he was getting into as I remember. Also, as I remember, he escaped a big problem that he was deep in. He didn't want to be in court. I always thought that he was more courage than foolish.

 I could be wrong. Its wasn't at the top of my radar. Those were the impressions that I am left with. Anybody recall, or have some of the old internet stories?
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 04, 2018, 07:11:33 AM
Answering my own question,  quickly looked up this on the net.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/vincents-naked-ambition-696699.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jan/11/taniabranigan

Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on July 04, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
Interesting that despite six arrests none of the complainers would give evidence - a very English response, we want “someone to do something” but we don’t really want to get involved. Then Vincent was cleared by a jury, rather than officialdom - when push comes to shove there is still a large streak of British opinion that sees nudity - particularly male nudity - as slightly comical and a subject for naughty seaside postcards.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on July 04, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
I've always maintained that people see nudists as harmless eccentrics. I tend to agree, although I hate to think of myself as comical. But the problem is establishing yourself as a genuine nudist. Someone on another forum says, when referring to those who do things in public that should stay in the bedroom (to put it one way), they aren't "real nudists."  But nobody owns the word.

Someone once described the differences between American nudists and German nudists (and others that I've forgotten). An American nudist is always looking over his shoulder, worried. But a German nudist is proud and has no worries about being seen. But that's a poor recollection. The original was much better worded.

My younger risks were probably anything but calculated. In most cases, the risk was more the possibility of appearing foolish than anything else. The risks might be greater now, what with smart phones. But on the other hand, the dangers of simply taking a long (say, ten miles) walk in the mountains was a more serious risk than being nude on the walk, although the risk was low, just the same. I always worried more about a bad fall than anything else. A colleague of my wife where she worked about 35 years ago disappeared in a climb on Mt. McKinley. Fate caught up with him. We happened to learn of it when his mother wrote a newspaper article about it. She was a grief counselor.

I've never done anything that risky--I think.  However, I have realized that most of my nude hiking has been deliberate. That is (and I may have said this already), an outing on which I wanted to hike nude was something that I had planned that way from the start. Only rarely have I done so on the spur of the moment, usually when the weather was a lot warmer than expected. But I've always like to get out in all seasons, although I'm not too enthusiastic about hiking in the rain. I have, though, because it wasn't like I could up and go just any old day. The biggest thing I've learned is that if you want it to rain, plan to go hiking in two weeks.

Another thing I've learned, probably more useful, is to get to the trailhead first. I've tried to arrive just at first light. I usually have the place to myself.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 05, 2018, 05:22:37 AM
Interesting that despite six arrests none of the complainers would give evidence - a very English response, we want “someone to do something” but we don’t really want to get involved. Then Vincent was cleared by a jury, rather than officialdom - when push comes to shove there is still a large streak of British opinion that sees nudity - particularly male nudity - as slightly comical and a subject for naughty seaside postcards.
It is better than here, where there are those that see it simply as disgusting and a threat to the sanity of children.

Here, we're coming out of an era where a guy in a pair of boxers is funny. A naked guy is a threat, or a topic of sex, because nobody has ever been seen in the context of humor naked. Children think that it is funny because it is out of place, out of the norm, which are things that make people laugh.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on July 10, 2018, 06:46:50 AM

https://www.echo.net.au/2018/07/tea-tree-lakes-nude-bathing-case-thrown-court/

This one is from Australia, but the problem seems to be the same everywhere. The police decide on the law and arrest accordingly - in this instance they took it on themselves that the simple act of being naked (at a swimming lake) was lewd behaviour. Happily, the magistrate disagreed.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 10, 2018, 02:56:03 PM
Police are the same everywhere.  The believe their job is to harass, fine, and arrest citizens for every possible excuse.   They are the sworn enemies of free people.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on July 10, 2018, 03:33:56 PM
I don't think the police are the same everywhere, not by a long shot. Perhaps you've had bad experiences. However, in some places, the police, here including sheriff's departments, let some people get away with just about anything and at the same time, are constantly harassing certain other groups of people. Yes, it's a form of social control, to be sure, but you can't simply blame the police. It's one group of people doing their best to control and maybe even eliminate another group of people.  Nothing new about that. It even happened before there were police. Often as not, it is also sometimes a case of a minority trying to control the majority. The police are usually in the middle. I'd have to say, however, that sheriff's departments in places where there is no police department, can be a little different, sheriffs always being an elected office.

So what is really happening?  The truth is, I think, that a lot of people are opposed to public nudity, like it or not, for whatever reason. So don't blame the police. They are not the sworn enemies of a free people. It is also difficult to accept that people will accept most anything instead of anarchy, which is some people's idea of freedom. These days, it seems like a lot of people in a lot of places are perfectly happy to live in a dictatorship. I mean Russia, of course.

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 10, 2018, 07:01:39 PM
I don't think the police are the same everywhere, not by a long shot. Perhaps you've had bad experiences. However, in some places, the police, here including sheriff's departments, let some people get away with just about anything and at the same time, are constantly harassing certain other groups of people. Yes, it's a form of social control, to be sure, but you can't simply blame the police.

Last night I was at a political rally where the County Sheriff spoke about getting re-elected.   I didn't get a chance to tell him that voters in my neighborhood are offended that one of his deputies has been using our road to rob us of "traffic tax" lately.   There may be other players who are also at fault, but the police deserve much of the blame.  Its what they do.  Its who they are.  They are sworn enemies of all free people.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on July 10, 2018, 08:20:52 PM
The sheriff and the police are not the same. You can vote the sheriff out of office. It's up to you.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 11, 2018, 12:04:44 AM
The sheriff and the police are not the same. You can vote the sheriff out of office. It's up to you.

In many US States such as this one, the County Sheriff is the primary police force.  Within incorporated cities, the city also has its own overlapping police force, as does Universities, school districts, port districts, etc.  The elected County Sheriff is pretty much the primary law enforcement officer in each County.   I don't know how it works where you live.

Like most politicians, voting one out is theoretically possible, but almost impossible in practice. 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on July 11, 2018, 12:57:00 AM
I realize that in some places, the majority rules all the time. I don't know how that could be changed.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 11, 2018, 10:55:41 AM
I have to agree with Bob. It is a apart of their culture. Many cops do this crap and believe that it is just fine. They are required by their oath to defend the constitution, something that they don't value because they don't really know about it. Too busy during high school to learn much, I suppose. Then they just do what they think is right.

Here we have Oro Valley police around us, who have used us a revue sources and applied bullying pressure for purely political reasons. On the County level, the last public/publicized sheriff;s scandal didn't change the election results. Back in the 60's, I remember 'ol Sheriff Waldon Burr, who used to hold up in the hospital until his political heat dissipated. I remember, " uh oh too much heat, time for the 'ol boy to get sick," and then he did. Went to a couple of his whore houses back then. Got stopped just for looking funny, long hair a few times. The vote doesn't seem to matter, no matter how much crap they lay on us. Sometimes, their local party bosses will shake a finger in a back room, that bothers them.

The majority does not rule. The majority is those that have been made ignorant, votes in an election for candidates that have been selected by party bosses that represent wealthy interests. This oligarchy thing on the federal level is just a piece of the overall system that is often, and more and more corrupt.

I met a Russian guy down in the canyon at Redington pass when I was gathering emails to organize. HE looked at me an said, "Do you realize that this country is just like my home, a Fascist state?"
Just like the fake democracies all over this hemisphere.
Jbee

Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on July 11, 2018, 12:39:04 PM
I understand what you're saying and agree that what you say is true in some places. But it certainly isn't true in other places.

When I say the majority rules, I mean that general law enforcement is carried out with not only the approval of the majority of the people but with their wholehearted encouragement, too. That was very definitely true in the last county in West Virginia where I lived before leaving home. It was a very conservative area and still is (probably more so), although not conservative in the way I think conservatives should be. Remember the old signs, "Beautify America, Get a Haircut?" Not conservative; reactionary. There were no wealthy interests controlling things, although wealthy interests greatly influences the economy but usually little else. It has to be said that wealthy interests tend to disfavor unions and related work issues but not social issues. People running for office tend to get a lot of support (money) from business interests if they are anti-union and related issues and coincidentally, those people usually have very reactionary views towards the usual social issues. As you can imagine, nudity is going to be seen as a vile sin. Mind you, nobody makes the slightest attempt to control alcohol, so I guess liquor is a Good Thing these days.

There are places where it is worse. In some places, the majority doesn't happen to be white but white folks (usually rich old men) still run things. This country has a history of that. It was simple: black and white. Anything else, like brown, simply confuses everything. Of course, in some places, that's long been the case and it isn't a real issue. Places like Texas, Southern California and in the last several decades, South Florida. It's easy to generalize the differences out of existence but they're real. There is a real paradox. These so call conservatives say they hate big government, etc., etc., etc., yet they seem to want it to be more powerful at the same time and to do the things they want done at the same time. They want to have their cake and eat it, too, in a manner of speaking. Anyway, they love politicians who try to outdo one another in being tough on crime.

None of the above really speaks to issues of interest to us except that reactionary/conservatives will prevent anything remotely liberal if they possibly can, except they like liberal gun laws.

I've probably said enough.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 11, 2018, 08:06:39 PM
Agreed generally with that one Bluetrain. It shows some of the roots to the law and the dangers of the tough stance, or the zero tolerance choices. Many conservative voters like feel sheltered and protected by their government and in their blind unswerving  patriotism  tends to have them forget that it is people running the system that we all need to be critical of, to question and expect accountability, transparency and trust. Otherwise we have our energies being spent on very wrong nudity laws an dtheir enforcement.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on July 11, 2018, 11:40:38 PM
In some places, the majority doesn't happen to be white but white folks (usually rich old men) still run things.

Racism.  Sexism.  Ageism. All the bigot insults.   Lets look the other way for Baltimore, Oakland, and many other cities where the corruption is other colored. Police in America actually kill about twice as many white men as colored men.  But just post the usual prejudices.   Does it ever end? 

 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Rebus on July 12, 2018, 04:43:13 AM
Police in America actually kill about twice as many white men as colored men.

Which means if you are black you are three times more likely to be shot and killed by police than if white.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on July 12, 2018, 01:50:52 PM
Please! I'm at the age where ageism starts to kick in.

Oh, to be 70 again.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on July 12, 2018, 06:23:40 PM
I'm younger and ageism is already growing, but what's more I have a big grey mustache in the middle of my face like a sign broadcasting. I'm also getting more respect and latitude from some people...and discounts. Women seem to trust me more.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 25, 2018, 01:27:45 AM
The popularity of Paris' biggest park, the Bois de Vincennes (https://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/after-nude-yoga-french-nudists-to-go-buff-at-theme-park-1875172), which was designated naturist friendly a little over a year ago, seems to be picking up.

Slowly the opposition is becoming less as people are using it for normal activities. There are still the usual complaints, seen at the end of the article.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 25, 2018, 05:56:17 PM
In a few years everyone will get used to going naked at the park.   Perhaps with locals and tourists it will spread to general body freedom all over Paris.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 25, 2018, 07:34:03 PM
In a few years everyone will get used to going naked at the park.   Perhaps with locals and tourists it will spread to general body freedom all over Paris.
Fingers crossed. ;)
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: eyesup on October 26, 2018, 08:32:54 PM
A trans-Atlantic jaunt, just to go to a park, even one as inviting as this, just doesn’t seem to be practical. One of these days we intend to do our obligatory European trip.

Maybe then. Along with some naked ramblings in Britain, Scotland etc. etc.

Duane
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 26, 2018, 09:35:43 PM
Parks, English Garden in Munich.
Jbee
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: BlueTrain on October 26, 2018, 10:20:29 PM
I lived for two years just up the road from Munich, in Augsburg, and never even heard of the English Garden. But then, my memory of Germany was mostly of a cold and rainy place. We've been back twice, my wife an additional time, but we didn't cross the ocean to go sunbathing. We did make it to Paris, though.

Regarding how people will get used to seeing naked people, maybe, but don't confuse tolerance, acceptance or approval. Likewise, when the police are enforcing laws you think are wrong, like making people put their clothes on, don't imagine for a minute that a majority of people don't want them doing that. I may have mentioned this before, but the family used to own a cottage on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. My wife and I sometimes would go further south on the National Seashore (beyond Oregon Inlet, if you know the area) for nude swimming and sunbathing. We largely gave that up because it wasn't worth the trouble. That was over 30 years ago. Sometime since then, signs specifically prohibiting public nudity have appeared along the highway and parking lots. I have no idea what prompted the signs but possibly, it was enough instances of people being indiscreet and believing that it didn't bother anyone that resulted in enough complaints to cause that much change in law enforcement. There is no safety in numbers, either, but rather the opposite. But North Carolina is a conservative state after all.
Title: Naked Shopper at Wal Mart in North Dakota.
Post by: Bob Knows on October 28, 2018, 06:15:26 PM


WAHPETON, ND. (Valley News Live) - A man in the Wahpeton Walmart was captured shopping naked.

An eyewitness tells us she saw the naked man shopping for produce around 5 p.m. on October 25.

It's also said that the same man was seen in Econofoods in Wahpeton.

He was seen wearing shoes and a hat, but no other clothing.

We have been in contact with police, and are awaiting further details regarding the incident.

Stay with Valley News Live for updates.
https://www.valleynewslive.com/content/news/Naked-man-goes-shopping-in-Wahpeton-Walmart-498791061.html?fbclid=IwAR0STkWgoKmvS2vHJE6L6ei8mxBFXl4G9GgDw9p_G-umofJzvYMl2iLon58 (https://www.valleynewslive.com/content/news/Naked-man-goes-shopping-in-Wahpeton-Walmart-498791061.html?fbclid=IwAR0STkWgoKmvS2vHJE6L6ei8mxBFXl4G9GgDw9p_G-umofJzvYMl2iLon58)


From an on-line legal source.
 
Quote
NORTH DAKOTA
* § 12.1-20-12.1. Indecent exposure.
1. A person, with intent to arouse, appeal to, or gratify that person’s lust, passions, or sexual desires, is guilty of a class A misdemeanor if that person:
b. Exposes one’s penis, vulva, or anus in a public place or to a minor in a public or private place.
* § 12.1-31-01. Disorderly conduct.
1. An individual is guilty of a class B misdemeanor if, with intent to harass, annoy, or alarm another person or in reckless disregard of the fact that another person is harassed, annoyed, or alarmed by the individual’s behavior, the individual:


The ND legislature did NOT simply say that being seen while human is illegal. The naked shopper does not appear to be doing any activity with the intent to arouse lust or passion. Buying vegetables is not a sexual act. Therefore one would conclude that nothing illegal is happening.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: nuduke on October 28, 2018, 11:32:46 PM

I love the way the prurient newspaper adds a wispy fuzzing of the buttock region of the man as if that makes any difference to what we see in the picture!
I'm afraid the guy will be a crazy rather than in there for any well reasoned reason of naturist emancipation, and not do the cause of nudism any favours.

John
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: John P on October 29, 2018, 03:41:04 AM
He's OK as far as indecent exposure is concerned, but they'll get him for disorderly conduct. The claim will be that he was acting in "reckless disregard" of whether anyone was  harassed, annoyed, or alarmed. I don't see how he can deny that such annoyance or alarm was likely, and that he went around naked in public regardless.

But when someone is being openly nude in a public place, there's always the possibility that it's related to a mental health issue or some kind of drug-induced action. The police would have approached him with that in mind.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: jbeegoode on October 30, 2018, 12:27:10 AM
Crazy? What he did wasn't crazy, ballsy heck yes, but crazy? It takes the crazies to do the sensible thing. Nudity is not a sure sign of mental confusion, instability, or pathological decline.

Did he do us any favors...dunno. Depends on how whoever took to the reporting of this simple act. Maybe, Bob's onto something and the law won't comment for fear of letting the cat out of the bag...or opening a can of worms for them.
Jbee 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 30, 2018, 05:39:26 PM
He's OK as far as indecent exposure is concerned, but they'll get him for disorderly conduct. The claim will be that he was acting in "reckless disregard" of whether anyone was  harassed, annoyed, or alarmed. I don't see how he can deny that such annoyance or alarm was likely, and that he went around naked in public regardless.


The naked guy was the one who was being harassed and annoyed.  And so am I when I'm shopping.    When "they get him for disorderly conduct" its the cops who come to get him.  Its not the vegetable salesman or the baker.  Its the cops.


bob
 
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: pjcomp on October 31, 2018, 07:06:04 AM
Quote
Its the cops

Except someone called the cops, so they have to bear some of the responsibility, it’s not just the police.
Title: Re: Nudes in the news
Post by: Bob Knows on October 31, 2018, 02:09:08 PM
Except someone called the cops, so they have to bear some of the responsibility, it’s not just the police.

If nobody calls the police go out looking for a citizen to control and rob.   Its how they see their job.  It is the cops, not the other citizen who choose to harass, and attack people minding our own business.