Free Range Naturism

Naturism => General Naturism Discussion => Topic started by: Peter S on September 03, 2015, 08:10:25 PM

Title: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Peter S on September 03, 2015, 08:10:25 PM
Our old friend Steve Gough has been released from prison. This - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34140955 - is an interview with a reporter on the BBC website.

For anyone who can't access the BBC site for geographical reasons, here's the text:


A man who has spent 10 years in prison because he goes naked in public has told the BBC he will continue his protest even if it means he has to spend the rest of his life in custody.
The former Director of Public Prosecutions Lord (Ken) Macdonald QC says it is not in the public interest for Stephen Gough to be prosecuted as he does not pose a danger to the public.
Mr Gough, known as the "Naked Rambler", was released from Winchester Prison on 14 August, aged 56, having served half of a 30-month sentence for breaching an anti-social behaviour order.
The cost to the taxpayer of his prosecution, imprisonment and legal appeals is estimated to be close to £1m.
He is currently walking from the Cotswolds to Eastleigh in Hampshire, clothed to avoid arrest, hoping to meet his two teenage children, whose childhoods he has largely missed because of the time he has spent in prison.
With the help of an OS map and grid reference, I found him in an open barn, complete with bats and the occasional rat, drying his walking socks on a blackberry bush, and packing up his sleeping bag and few belongings, ready for the day's walk.
'Freedom'
Mr Gough had a normal childhood, spent five years as a marine and had a stint with the Moonies, before starting a family. It was then that things changed dramatically. After what he refers to as an "epiphany" moment whilst walking through woods, he decided to dedicate his life to going naked in public.
He told me: "It's freedom to act according to what is appropriate. We are taught to be sensible and use common sense. So unless there is a good reason not to, why shouldn't we wear what we want, whether it's nothing or seven layers of clothing?"
In 2003 Mr Gough walked naked from Land's End to John O'Groats, earning the name the Naked Rambler. He has been frequently arrested for minor public order offences which criminalise threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour within sight of another person who may be caused harassment, alarm or distress.
That offence does not carry a prison sentence, just a fine. However, breaching the anti-social behaviour orders that he has been placed under has led to ever longer prison terms.
His most recent conviction, in October 2014, resulted in a 30-month sentence. He was refused the right to appear naked in court at his trial and was tried in his absence. He went on to make legal history in June when he appeared naked via video link at the Court of Appeal where his appeal against conviction and sentence were dismissed.
Mr Gough has also had a case alleging infringement of his human rights to a private and family life, and freedom of expression, dismissed by the European Court of Human Rights.
Almost all his 10 years in prison have been spent in solitary confinement, often being locked up for 23 hours a day, because of his refusal to wear clothes.
Some people support Mr Gough going naked, some find it funny, and some find it deeply offensive, but should he go to prison for 10 years, more than some rapists and armed robbers, just for doing it?
'Harmless eccentric'
Not according to the former Director of Public Prosecutions, Lord Macdonald, who told me: "This man is not a danger to anybody, he's a nuisance. He's an eccentric, as far as one can tell he's a harmless eccentric. He's spent around 10 years in prison, that's £40,000 a year. This seems to be a draconian, quite inappropriate response to his behaviour."
Lord Macdonald believes it is not in the public interest to prosecute Mr Gough.
"He's served 10 years, which on normal remission terms would be the equivalent of a 15-20 year sentence in prison," he said.
"Very few rapists get that sort of sentence, not many murderers serve more than that. Prison should be for people who represent a risk to the public, not for people who annoy the public in the way that he seems to from time to time."
I asked Mr Gough whether he would continue to go naked in public, even if it meant spending the rest of his life in prison.
He told me: "How the future will pan out I can't guarantee, but my feeling is I am continuing. That's my deep down gut feeling. That I am continuing and it will not end here. I really can't see that this country would sentence someone to life in prison just for being naked in public. But if that's what it will mean I am prepared for that."
Once he has seen his children, Mr Gough intends to resume going naked in public. He will ramble uphill, down dale and, in all likelihood, back to jail.


peter
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on September 04, 2015, 02:18:47 AM
Well, a harmless eccentric with more balls than Director of Public Prosecutions, Lord Macdonald could ever muster...hmm, does that make us all eccentric or just the one that stands up and gets arrested?
 
Now that he is the former director, I wonder if the new one will carry the same opinion, and if this statement transfers over as a hard to change ruling.
Jbee
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: reubenT on September 06, 2015, 06:48:00 AM
Glad he's out.      Putting a guy in prison just for hiking naked is like telling God he made a mistake when he had us being born naked.    I don't know why they make an issue out of it.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: midnightrider on September 06, 2015, 06:29:58 PM
I think it  is no issue, it is just a stupid power play !

Cheers,
Paul
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's been arrested again. He still won't go hide.
Post by: Bob Knows on September 15, 2015, 04:08:17 PM
Apparently Steve has been arrested for being naked again.  See linked article.

I agree with this comment from the article.

"Yeah right. If they can spend a million pounds and waste time depriving a British citizen of ten years of his freedom for doing nothing offensive then we are not as civilised a society as I had hoped."

His arrests are brining more and more public attention to public nudity and public criticism of the police for wasting tax money arresting someone for being naked. Stephen has done more to promote acceptance of public nudity in the UK over the past 10 years than all the nudist organizations combined. Many of the nudist organizations don't like him because he won't go hide.  Public nudity does not support commercial nude resorts, so nudist organizations often won't support public nudity.

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Royal-Marine-Naked-Rambler-arrested-weeks-prison/story-27800038-detail/story.html
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nudewalker on September 15, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
I don't want to seem off topic here but I see the same thing in our country. Look who is leading in the polls for president; all those who are not part of the political establishment. I think most of us are tired of seeing tax dollars wasted on such foolishness.
 Same here, police complain they are understaffed and under funded but they insist on arresting and prosecuting harmless criminals! I agree Bob, the comment in the article sums it up! What a waste of time and money.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Davie on September 15, 2015, 05:09:58 PM
Ahhh I think he's back in again. See  here (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13720032.Hampshire_s__naked_rambler__arrested_again/)

The merrygoround starts again

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on September 15, 2015, 05:30:31 PM
According to the BN statistics, only a very VERY small minority object to his body. This means that the law is out of order.

 I have strong feelings for the principle that all should be treated equally under the law as human right. If not, it is a dangerous fascist practice. As the guy said, it's like burkas for women, a special law for someone with the excuse that others can't control themselves and think of lust.

An unnatural state.

 A law that doesn't fit the offense, diminishes and controls. A burka/fashion industry exploiting a conformity with inhuman response.

How come no one hears the choir? Or do they?
Jbee
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Peter S on September 15, 2015, 11:43:09 PM
Once again he has been arrested not for being naked but for breaching the ASBO which tells him not to go naked, even though being naked in public is legal.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: milfmog on September 16, 2015, 12:24:58 PM
There is an article in the Telegraph by Matthew Scott, Steve Gough's barrister. It asks some very sensible questions and clearly demonstrates that not everyone who works in our legal system is an ass:

Naked rambler: why have we spent over £300k imprisoning this harmless eccentric? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11664860/Naked-rambler-why-have-we-spent-300000-imprisoning-this-harmless-eccentric.html)

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Davie on September 16, 2015, 04:10:36 PM
There may be a silver lining in all this. Whether or not you agree with him his case has shown that the law is an ass! It shows the fact that ASBOs are made-up law outside of parliaments wishes and shows how an eccentric can be punished more that a serious criminal. It took the prosecution of a guy asking if a Policeman's horse was gay to show how silly the can can be.

Gough is showing by his actions how heavy handed the law can be. There will come a point when society as a whole will say, "Up with this we will not put." The law needs to he respected by the majority, when it is not it has to change - I suggest that will come but we know not when.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Bob Knows on September 16, 2015, 04:19:29 PM
There is an article in the Telegraph by Matthew Scott, Steve Gough's barrister. It asks some very sensible questions and clearly demonstrates that not everyone who works in our legal system is an ass:

Naked rambler: why have we spent over £300k imprisoning this harmless eccentric? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11664860/Naked-rambler-why-have-we-spent-300000-imprisoning-this-harmless-eccentric.html)
Have fun,
Ian.


Yes, the whole Naked Rambler epic clearly demonstrates that the entire UK legal system is a complete ass waging war against the people.  Even if a man obeys the law as Steve always has, you can be attacked, brutalized, and imprisoned for life.  The law and the courts are evil asses.

They pretend and lie to the people, saying that we can elect MPs or Representatives to enact laws.   They lie to the people saying that if we obey the laws we won't be arrested.  But their "ASBO" demonstrates that they can just say "fuck you!" and throw you in prison even if you obeyed all the laws enacted by those we elected.

Some people in the US have started shooting them on sight.  They act bewildered. 



Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: milfmog on November 01, 2015, 10:26:13 AM
Another great article about Steve Gough can be read here (http://barristerblogger.com/2015/10/26/free-the-naked-rambler/).

Have fun,


Ian.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Davie on November 01, 2015, 10:48:21 AM
A very interesting article and we will wait for the result of the next court appearance on 18 December with interest

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jaydee on November 01, 2015, 12:57:32 PM
It's strange to think that this man has spent the best part of a decade in prison not for breaking the law, but for defying social convention.  It's been pointed out by a few people that the cumulative length of his sentences is more than is generally given out to those who actually break the law and cause real physical harm to others.  It seems to me that the position of the various judges and prosecutors involved over the years is out of step with the views of everyone else.  Most people couldn't care less, and those that do generally just dismiss him, at worst, as a "weirdo".
It's a tricky subject, and I think it comes down to one's personal interpretation of the concept of "freedom".  Freedom of speech, for example, does not proscribe your right to say whatever you please, but it doesn't make you immune from the potential consequences of what you say, either.  I read Mark Haskell Smith's Naked at Lunch and the chapter on the saga of San Fransisco's laws on public nudity raised an interesting point.  The simple act of nudity in the city was never a problem.  It only became a problem when individuals abused the freedom they had been afforded and used it as a means to deliberately provoke.  This has parallels with the gun laws of certain states.  Many states allow open carry of firearms, however when certain groups used this right to justify walking into a McDonalds with a loaded AK strapped to their back, then it became less an issue of them exercising their rights and more one of causing a public disturbance.
The Gough case is very different to this.  It has never been suggested, not even by his harshest critics, that he does what he does out a desire for sexual gratification.  He isn't a flasher or a public pest, just some guy who doesn't wear clothes.  Eventually, I think that everyone will simply get tired of wasting time and money prosecuting him and simply let him go.  It'll only take one judge or magistrate to dismiss the case and that'll be that.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Bob Knows on November 01, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Good article.  As he points out British Naturist organizations have studiously avoided public advocacy of support for public naturism all these years.   Factory naked farms generally oppose public tolerance of nudity.  If people could just go naked we wouldn't need nude farms.  They would have to compete with other resorts for travel and vacation business.

Its time, folks.  We all must start complaining to our elected representative and demonstrating support in public.  If nudists are not willing to speak out in favor of free range naturism then we are all subject to similar punishment. 
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: eyesup on November 04, 2015, 09:14:52 PM
I think it  is no issue, it is just a stupid power play!

As jaydee observes, this has crossed over into the absurd.

I have issues with Mr. Gough that have nothing to do with his naked rambling.
Based on what I read here from those living in the UK, he isn't breaking the law. The Law appears to be trying to break him.

Leave him be.

Duane
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on November 05, 2015, 12:15:09 AM
I think it  is no issue, it is just a stupid power play!

As jaydee observes, this has crossed over into the absurd.

Based on what I read here from those living in the UK, he isn't breaking the law. The Law appears to be trying to break him.

Leave him be.

Duane
I think that absurd slipped out of the accurate applicable descriptive long ago. We are now into cruel, inhuman, draconian. Come on, this has been nearly indefinite solitary confinement. He is doing Coolhand Luke, The Longest Yard, and Papillion time. He has shown the authorities to be just as sick, maladjusted and reprehensible as they actually are. He has stripped the system of its dignity. He is not the criminal doing harm, it is the medieval people who do these things to him that are the criminals. It is disgustingly immoral. You can't justify torturing a dog to train it like they are doing to train him. Would you put a dog in a solitary box for ten years to make it wear pants? He can't back out now. He would loose his whole life of sacrifice for nothing.

Like the fore mentioned movies, people rally, are inspired and admire the characters for their fortitude and defiance against injustice for merely the sake of freedom. But here, Gough gets very little of that. You have pigs making up laws, "What we have here is a failure to communicate." They are out to break him, make him an example, and suppress us all in a fundamental way. No matter what they say. No matter if there is no whip, "My name is Kunta Kinte." They leave him no choice. This isn't just about injustice for body freedom, it's about accepting outrageous illegitimate rule. This is what would happen in the Kingdom of Saudi, where they behead people for free speech and still want to cut off hands. They would throw him in a dungeon until he changed.

He has done no harm. If you accept that he alarmed an ignorant mother, he still has paid and been harmed infinitely more than 1000 ignorant mothers. What about his kids? Have they suffered without a dad? Perhaps, but he didn't choose to leave them, he was taken away from them. He has done nothing to warrant anything close to the abuse these creeps have done to him. He hasn't actually broken an explicit law to date and he has gotten this. It is beyond reason. The law hasn't just been an embarrassment to all of decent Britain, it's repulsive.

Here, they would lie and label him a sexual predator as an excuse. It is time to write some letters, organize, and write as an organization. Demonstrate. Educate. Bring it up in public election discourse. If you kidnap the judge and lock him in your basement for an undetermined couple of months telling him to get naked, or else, would that really be that different from these criminals? There are very sick people out there that shouldn't be running things.
Rant, rant rant....
Jbee
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: reubenT on November 06, 2015, 07:41:44 AM
you know how people so easily let their ego and emotion take control.    Those supposed to be administering the laws are not immune.   They meet someone who they can't intimidate,  can't control,  he won't do what they tell him to,  and so they lock him up,  even though his "crime"  is not a crime at all.    The best solution is public protest.   But here we have a problem.   Not enough people willing to take up an issue of someone else and make it their own,  especially when it's that embarrassing topic of nakedness.  The issue between Steve and the authorities reminds me of childish squabbles,  just a  grown up version of it.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nuduke on November 10, 2015, 01:37:22 AM
like your literary references in last post, jbee!! :D
John
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Davie on November 10, 2015, 01:52:13 PM
It is unfortunate that some magistrates are narrow minded. There is the story of a magistrate sentencing someone who then let off a stream of oaths. A magistrate to one side of the chairmen voiced her opinion that he should also be dealt with for contempt of court. The chair a wise old bird suggested that they should take it on the chin as the prisoner got his anger out and would now be a calmer person to deal with and the type of reaction they'd heard just went with the job. Some magistrates are wise, I've met quite a few, but it seems a number of naturists have indeed come in front of the other type!

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nudewalker on November 10, 2015, 03:46:44 PM
The last case around here that involved anything near a naturism slant was thrown out of court after the it was determined the only way the gentleman in question could be seen naked would have meant a trespass by the children's mother who brought charges. I could assume that either there are few nudists around here or they are very good at hiding. Everyone has heard the stories of heavy hand judges and magistrates but I have no experience to go by if anyone was charged with anything like indecent exposure.

It seems to have become more of an ego thing as it applies to Stephen. Although he poses no threat, means no harm and has become a burden to the penal system the judicial system refuses to admit it made a mistake. All I can add is that there is a fear that in letting this pass more civil disobedience will arise and upset the apple cart so to speak? Perhaps the lunatics are running the asylum?
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Peter S on November 10, 2015, 05:26:30 PM
As many here can testify from experience, and Steve found on many occasions, appearing naked in front of others is rarely an issue - a TV documentary on Steve's Land's End to John O'Groats walk featured several instances of people lining up to have their picture taken with him, and his using shops and pubs and receiving only smiles and cheers in response. We've also recorded (I think lost on "the old site") instances of someone in authority taking it on themselves to prosecute a naturist on behalf of "offended" others, unidentified and unknown - in other words, making it up. I think Steve's big mistake that led to his latest problems was to appear naked close to a school, and of course no one can let that go unpunished, the poor little children (who, if they had seen him, would have just laughed their heads off!!)

In other words, most real people have no problem with nakedness, it's only a few with an overdeveloped sense of their own importance who cause us problems.

peter
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Davie on November 10, 2015, 05:32:22 PM
One of the problems we have is people being victims on other people's behalf.

I can easily see a situation were a elderly person sees a naked person, tells her daughter who then complains although our elderly Mum was not fazed at all having had a wonderful time naked in her younger days

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Bob Knows on November 10, 2015, 05:56:57 PM
I think Steve's big mistake that led to his latest problems was to appear naked close to a school, and of course no one can let that go unpunished, the poor little children (who, if they had seen him, would have just laughed their heads off!!)
peter


The students these days are all busy sending nude photos of themselves to each other.   Seeing an old naked man would just cause them to laugh.  No child has ever been hurt by the sight of another member of his or her own species.   Children are a convenient excuse for up-tight control freaks who can't allow freedom.

Bob
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: John P on November 10, 2015, 07:15:16 PM
The facts aren't quite right there. Steve Gough was on his march south after his release in Scotland, and he passed by a school in Oxfordshire just as the children were getting out for the day, in view of plenty of parents. He was arrested and charged with "outraging public decency"; he wasn't granted bail, so he spent two months in jail and then the charges were dropped. (I thought at the time that the charge was some piece of medieval law that hasn't been heard of since 1850, but not so--apparently it's used hundreds of times a year, though it was undoubtedly misapplied to Steve Gough.) But this happened over Christmas 2012, so you can't say that it "led to his latest problems" except if you see it as adding to his notorious reputation.

Steve Gough's friends and supporters have a Facebook site, which you can find if you look for "Free the Naked Rambler Stephen Gough". That's assuming you're willing to deal with Facebook.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on November 10, 2015, 08:37:10 PM
The facxebook page hasn't been active since 2013 apparently. I did get this out of it. "Public reaction to Gough, in the flesh, is overwhelmingly positive. He is stopped all the time for handshakes and photographs. Few understand that he regards himself as a martyr for personal freedom, or that he sees public nakedness as a vocation. Rather, he benefits from a British taste for eccentricity and sauciness. Walking near Penicuik, Gough passed a village hall where a bake sale was being held, and nodded to the middle-aged ladies who came out to greet him. "I'm just damned disappointed," said one, "that I didn't have my glasses on." It was the same the whole time I spent with him – smiles, waves, honking car horns."

A small minority may object, others just haven't thought it through, or been given real information. There is the the fallacious myth, "What about the children." That's it. It is a social mores, harmless and nothing more. There is no justification for these laws, there is justice in removing the laws and upholding body freedom as a Right, a health issue and also, a spiritual imperative for many. The world upside down.
Jbee
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: John P on November 11, 2015, 12:39:07 AM
I think you must have seen Bernard Boase's pinned post from 2013 and not looked any further. What I see right now directly below that is "Gill James shared Jillian Tigerlily Davis's photo. 7 hrs".

But I have to admit, it's one of those pictures with writing on them, second only to pictures of cats on the scale of uselessness. Oh, it says "It's easy to judge". Well how about that.

The next post is relevant though--dated Nov 8.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: JOhnGw on November 11, 2015, 09:52:42 PM
The "what about the children" syndrome is actually advocating the exact opposite of the effects of adult nudity on children which is suggested by such meagre evidence as exists.
This indicates that children brought up in societies which have a more relaxed attitude to nudity than the principal anglophone countries have a better self image, a later age of first sexual intercourse and a much lower rate of teenage pregnancy.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Bob Knows on November 12, 2015, 12:50:21 AM
The "what about the children" syndrome is actually advocating the exact opposite of the effects of adult nudity on children which is suggested by such meagre evidence as exists.

All children are engaged in the process of learning everything they need to know to be normal functional adults. That learning is their full time jobs.  Most of their learning is done by observation, not by listening to lectures.

Children have a fundamental need and right to learn about themselves by observing other members of their own species.  Depriving children of opportunities to learn is abusive to children, so depriving children of opportunities to observe a variety of their own species is abusive. 

Bob
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: John P on November 12, 2015, 03:16:29 AM
Oh, it's bad when children are exposed to nudity. Very, very bad.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151187488012552&set=o.247410229402&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Davie on November 12, 2015, 10:04:15 AM
The child is carrying glasses so she can't see he's naked. Only explanation!

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Bob Knows on November 12, 2015, 04:35:30 PM
Children have a fundamental right to learn about themselves by observing other beings of their own species.   Depriving any child of an opportunity to learn is child abuse. 
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on November 12, 2015, 10:20:00 PM
Oh, it's bad when children are exposed to nudity. Very, very bad.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151187488012552&set=o.247410229402&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf
Ya know, I link to here and I get completely different pictures than when I link up on my regular facebook page. It still goes to the latest post as 2013. Any notion as to how or why Facebook sucks?
Jbee
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Peter S on January 25, 2016, 08:12:29 AM
Go to www.nakedrambler.org for an interview with SG

Peter
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nuduke on January 26, 2016, 01:31:26 AM
omg, a gough-worship site! What next, I wonder?  Thanks for the link, Peter.  Haven't read it yet but will report back impressions after I've dipped in.
John
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Davie on January 26, 2016, 10:47:31 AM
Whether or not anyone agrees or disagree with SG its interesting to have his side of the story available.

Davie  8)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: John P on January 26, 2016, 03:28:26 PM
I'm dubious about this site, and I wonder if it's being done for commercial purposes by someone with no connection with Steve Gough, just an interest in attracting viewers. They say:
As well as being the world’s foremost single source database for storing archive Naked Rambler material, we will also be including all the very latest developing news and views, as they happen, on subjects as far ranging as, Arts & Crafts, Cartoons, Cinema Film, Television Documentaries, Theatre & Drama and regular correspondence from writers in the field of media and entertainment.
I'll stick with his support site on Facebook.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on January 26, 2016, 06:32:22 PM
It is nice when a site pays fro itself, or even the promoters time. The cash and notoriety would help to promote Gough. Heck, they have even imposed a pic into a pic to make it look as if he walks on water! On the other hand it may be someone with more self concern, that knows how to pump things up on the net and then take over, which may or may not be good for Gough.

So, Just how would Gough pronounce Gough? Gaw, goa, goff, gow?
Jbee
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nuduke on January 29, 2016, 11:11:20 PM
It's Goff,
That's the generally accepted pronunciation of an -Ough surname (maybe not Troughton!) over here.  Without getting into a tedious chain of pronunciation geeking, english allows for several pronunciations of -ough words so Steve could be Goo (through), Gow (bough), Goff (trough), Gor (thought)

Any more? :D

John
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: John P on January 30, 2016, 05:36:37 PM
Our friend Mr Gough
Tends to put people ough.
Even down there in Eastleigh,
They all think he's beastleigh.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nuduke on February 02, 2016, 06:38:32 PM
Very nice, John P.
I laughed!
John
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: Peter S on April 11, 2016, 06:10:55 PM
Latest update from SG@s local paper:
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Naked-rambler-quits-nude-campaign/story-29089907-detail/story.html

peter
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: John P on April 12, 2016, 06:12:32 PM
If one were a London commuter, one would have picked up the Metro to read on the train, and one would have found this on page 11 (the picture is a very old one):
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28291527/Naturism/sg120416.jpg)
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on April 12, 2016, 10:32:06 PM
So, the message is that the government would leave a helpless little old lady without care, rather to have Steven walking with a bare body? Nasty-mean and dastardly these UK authorities are. He won't let Mum be collateral damage, as they hold her hostage to have their way with him? 
Jbee
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nuduke on April 13, 2016, 11:53:47 PM
I think this is one of the saddest stories I have read in a long time.  It is not about naturism or Steve Gough's campaign to be accepted in society nude.  It is about the burden of caring that is increasingly the lot of our generation. 

Whatever your opinion of Gough's behaviour and campaign, it is his own.  A campaign by which he has chosen to live his life.  His aspiration is nudity in society and however he goes about it was his choice to follow.

But his mum is in need and so like a huge swathe of our generation he has given up his quest and his freedom of choice in order to look after his mother.  No choice really.  Bless him, he has done what most of us do (certainly in my case) and sacrificed our independence to devote ourselves to our elderly dependents. 

It is an example of the increasing burden that improved health and medical science has placed certainly on the current generation of fifty and sixty-somethings (i.e. Us!) that their parents and older relatives live ever longer past the point at which their lives are tolerably dignified, tolerably comfortable and, intolerably, their wits and faculties and useful limbs are taken from them by old age and infirmity, dementia, Alzheimer's, arthritis, heart dysfunction and a score of other things. 

Yet medical science and social care keeps the sorry, spent, guttering flame of the elderly relative's existence burning wanly, sans everything, prolonged far and away beyond what should have been its natural span and they moulder in bedrooms and care homes, bland, living ghosts of people that were once active and meant something.  Whilst that medical science continues to work its preservative and palliative 'miracles' the sad consequence is that families and loved ones of those helpless geriatrics are engaged in the immense burden of care and stress and worry and cost. The respected memory of their loved one morphs into the anger of toleration of a heavy burden which love cannot allow them to put down yet society (and science) will not give the geriatric or their loved one the option of voluntary euthanasia or any other 'way out'.  And without that option, the end becomes a welcome relief and a release not, as it should have been, a sad, loving and reluctant departure.

Having cared for 3/4 parents and 2 avuncular relatives through the sad pointlessness of their last years, I feel very strongly at minimum for myself and my children.  I want to be able to determine the day that I die and save my offspring the huge, dragging, long-lasting, life-stealing burden of care that I experienced.  And if I leave it too late and sadly get to a state where I can't say or decide when to go then I want them to have the option and indeed the expectation that they can and will release me from the burden of the last dregs of life and for society to accept, assist and value this consideration for quality of life being the key criterion of continuation of life. 

So many people I know have had or are having their freedom stolen by the shackles of geriatric care and so much resource is wasted in preserving human life 'at all costs'.  So much political consideration is being given to how the countries of the west will manage the hugely increasing geriatric population and so little thought to how much of that resource could do so much good elsewhere employed if a more objective view of the value of life and taking a balanced view of when the end should be.  And yet, when it comes up in parliament, the spineless members vote against alleviating the widespread and increasing suffering of people imprisoned in existence, possibly against their wills in many cases, by medical care.  As was unsurprising the  considerations centred on the minor risk that sometimes such decisions might not be made for the highest motives and the occasional experience of someone who changed their minds.

So Steve Gough, despite my respect for your right to make your point, you had my cynicism about your campaign tactics .  But now, Steve, you have my heartfelt respect for having put your principles aside in the interests of filial duty and my deep sympathy for the fact that you have sadly had to do so and no longer have the freedom to pursue your vocation.

John

Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: milfmog on April 20, 2016, 01:28:08 PM
John,

I owe you a beer for saving me typing that. I could not agree more with you post.

I have spent the past six years watching a previously very smart mother-in-law become a dribbling, immobile wreck with, in her few lucid moments, one wish left; "I just want to die". I would not subject anyone either to her ending or to my wife's emotions.

Have fun, (lest some medic obsessed with preserving life rather than quality of life steals that ability from you)


Ian.
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: eyesup on April 20, 2016, 10:57:21 PM
Four thumbs up John! Great post!
As usual, politicians and their larvae (bureaucrats) are engaging in the genetic forces that drive their continued existence. A strict and unbending adherence to the rule book. Forfend the likelihood that something unknown or out of the ordinary happening. Why is everyone so terrified of something unexpected? Life is better with surprises!

Why must it be, everyone with a place and everyone in that place. A brick in the wall.

Kudos to Mr. Gough for keeping his focus on what is most important.

Duane
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on April 21, 2016, 10:50:24 PM
Just using a little imagination to keep the topic of free range naturism in the mix.

“Good morning Mr. Goode, Let me open these curtains for some sunshine as I change your bedpan.”
“Nooo, let me FEEL the sun! I want to smell the air, not clean sheets.”


“Ol’man Goode managed to pry his pajamas off again last night. I think we’ll have to tie the fart down at night.”


“Can’t keep the clothes on him, obviously a demented codger.”


“I pray Lord, just let me fall naked into that pool of water over there. Just a few minutes before I drown.”


“Mahjong , or TV?!” Where’s my old pistol when I need it? I wanna hijack a ride to the forest…naked!”


 “All day, he just wants to quietly sit naked on the lawn. Sometimes eye open, sometimes closed. He says that’s all he wants?”
“What are you crazy? They’ll have my head if we let him do that!”


Nope, they'll never take me alive...nope.
Jbee




Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nuduke on April 29, 2016, 11:30:36 PM
Catch 22 personified, JBee!

John
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: reubenT on May 02, 2016, 04:29:31 PM
  For him to stay home to care for his mother is not a  bad thing.   Self denial for the good of others is what we all need to learn more of. 
I've watched it all.   Others and at home.  My mother once the very intelligent teacher, researching everything that struck her interest,  dwindle to nothing mentally.   An inherited weakness affecting the women on her fathers side.    My dad can't do anything physical with breathing difficulties, somewhat frustrating to him as he had a good work ethic, enjoyed doing things and getting stuff done.   he's 89 as of yesterday and she's 80 this summer.    Up to my brother and I to keep them comfortable as possible until life ends.       I've seen/read about a few who lived till very old the way I want to.   Work outside, eat a natural diet,   pass in their sleep after a good days work.     The two who lived to be way past 100 because they ate raw food were interesting.   Supposedly 132 and 152 for ages on the two.  One died of accident while pursuing trail riding on horse.   The other after he was taken out of his natural environment and his diet and work habits changed.  Neither one demonstrated to full extent what a lifestyle of work in nature and diet of live food might do.  We kill our food before we eat it mostly,   dead food brings on death eventually,   apparently live food imparts life,  or at least extends it who knows how long.  Live plant based food that is.   The 132 man was Dr Walker,  the developer of the Walker juicer. a promoter of raw juice.     His age was a guess,  and different people guessed at different ages.  The 132 came from his last wife who guessed based on things he'd said.  He refused to tell anyone after meeting with too much unbelief in regards to it.    And he couldn't prove anything because he was born before official birth records were kept.      I didn't know how he died until a current neighbor told me her son lived near him and he was out trail riding.    The 152 man was better documented age wise,  but was back in the 1800's in Europe somewhere.    His wife died and he hated to cook,  had goats and grew a garden.   Ate his garden produce raw with goat cheese.   At 150 or better his age attracted some attention, he was invited to the capitol.   Since his diet and lifestyle was more from convenience than design,  a move like that precipitated the end for him.     My brother and I design to develop the work and diet that would allow us best chance of doing the same and maybe even better.    We have the research mind of our mother and work ethic from both.   Nutrient dense or high brix style agriculture and consuming it as close to it's natural state as possible is the goal we have.   Arranging lifestyle as much like that of the original garden as possible.   I want to live as long as possible and work for the benefit of others by growing food for myself and them that will impart health and life.  If we don't live and work to benefit and bless someone other than ourselves our life is pointless.  It's living to make someone other than ourselves happy that makes life worth living.  Those who live selfish lives just to please themselves end up quite miserable. 
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: jbeegoode on May 02, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
It goes both ways. It can be a healing. Maybe his kids will get sometime with him as they visit grandma. He has lost ten years of family. He has been in the role of martyr for a cause and shut off from much of his humanity like a renunciate monk.

In my forties, my dad got Parkinson's, diabetes and degenerative blindness. Mom got sick taking care of him, as they were both very old. I was just embarking on building my house and still recovering from the financial destruction of divorce, and needing to start a new career from loss of my business, and a single unsupported full time dad of a young son. This mess brought us together. There I was forty-something and living with my parents, piled into my old bedroom for a year and a half. There was seemingly no time for myself for awhile, then slightly more time to rearrange my future. My son got the experience of care of loved ones. My dad and I healed a strained relationship, I had a babysitter, who helped back when I went to classes. It was family. My upbringing taught us to be staunchly self reliant, independent, which needed to be balanced.

Men have this need and also an expectation laid on them, to produce goal oriented accomplishments, but it can be out of balance and things have to be put on hold for periods of life. Seva produces karma, sometimes instant karma. I can't always know what is best for me and this showed this to me. I suspect Mr. Gough is exactly where he needs to be. Bless his heart.
Jbee 
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: eyesup on May 02, 2016, 08:13:20 PM
Yeah, maybe he'll gain some perspective for himself. As you said, Jbee, it provides opportunity to think and meditate about how you end up in a particular situation.

If you are not too self-centered it should eventually even your life out.

Duane
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: nuduke on May 12, 2016, 11:10:05 PM
Yes, Interesting point of view, there, JBee.  Makes one wonder if Mr G will be changed when he emerges from the current situation.  If so what will that change be?  Mellower re campaigning for nude freedom, I trust!
John
Title: Re: Steve Gouch update - he's out
Post by: eyesup on May 19, 2016, 03:30:30 AM
Quote from: nuduke
Makes one wonder if Mr G will be changed when he emerges from the current situation.  If so what will that change be?

I lost my mom to Alzheimers and my dad about 10 yrs. later, a different affliction. Over the last few years I have lost a couple friends. Major events in a person's life changes them. Most especially if it is a parent.

Sometimes in life they appear to be always there for whatever is happening. Then one day a wake up call that they are not invincible.

I am sure he will be changed. As you asked, John, in what way?

Duane