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Messages - John P

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Trip reports / Re: Naked European Walking Tour 2019
« on: September 13, 2019, 05:24:37 AM »
You're asking questions which link up with each other. So far the Naked European Walking Tour has always been in Austria, but we did have some talk about whether it should move to Germany or Spain, for reasons which will become clear! There are in fact far more than a dozen people on these trips, typically somewhere around 30. That limits the number of houses that can be found to hold everyone, and because Austria isn't as liberal in its outlook as Germany, not all owners are willing to rent to a nudist group. But there's a particular story here.

My first NEWT trip was in 2014, and the week started off with Richard Foley, who originated the event, having to take his dog to the vet on account of sore feet. So he missed the first day of walking. But he left the instruction with us: “Just don't be naked when you're on a paved road. Anywhere else being nude should be OK.” So off he went, and we started off on our walk, and soon enough we found ourselves on a paved road, and there wasn't much traffic, and someone decided that maybe being naked wouldn't cause any problems. Pretty soon most of the group was naked, and I'm afraid I was one of them. Well, a few cars did pass by, but nothing seemed to be wrong. The trouble didn't arrive until the evening, and then Richard addressed the group much like God spoke to Adam and Eve: “The one thing I told you not to do, you went straight out and did!” Apparently what happened was that someone passing by saw a group of naked people on the road, and called the police. The police didn't find us, but they asked around in the neighborhhod, and they talked to various people and finally located the owner of the house, and the owner talked to Richard. No, there wasn't a police raid (it's not America) but the message got through. It was a little embarrassing, but it seemed to be ended with that one day.

Now forward to 2019. Our organizer was having trouble finding a house to rent, and he had the idea of going back to the place we rented in 2014. And to avoid awkward discussion, he didn't tell the owner that we were a nudist group. Well, the owner got one look at a few of the first people to arrive, and he got pretty annoyed (I got this from hearsay--I wasn't an early arrival). He said, “Oh, you're those people from 5 years ago, the ones who embarrassed me with the town council! Well, I don't want you going naked around the house!” And apparently he also said “I can't control what you do away from the house”, which didn't make much sense since it was behavior away from the house that led to the trouble before, but anyway, he was telling us to behave ourselves on his property. And so that's why Roland, and all the rest of us, wore clothes in the house. And it's also why there was discussion about whether NEWT should happen in some country other than Austria.

Now aren't you glad you asked?

Trip reports / Naked European Walking Tour 2019
« on: September 10, 2019, 03:54:50 AM »
Rather than stretch this out over multiple episodes as I've done before, I'm just posting a selection of pictures in a single group. I hope it's clear that this was another excellent trip!

Nothing very remarkable here, but it was the first time people started getting their clothes off!

That's Martin, our youngest member. Always cheerful! He also likes to say, “It takes an Easterner to get it right!” (Meaning the former East Germany.)

Hans-Juergen demonstrates something I never expected to see again—a guy changing the film in his camera.

This is the place where we undressed as we climbed away from the cafe, and some rude children kept shouting "Hose an! Hose an!" which means "Pants on!" They had loud voices and we heard them for a long time.

Milt likes to slide down snow slopes. He sits on a coat that he probably doesn't use for much else.

Roland explains our next day's hike.

Approaching a cafe where people were sitting outdoors, we put on our most colorful clothes. Notice that English Martin goes barefoot everywhere.

Martin counted us in German and Pascal counted in French. If they hadn't agreed, there would have been a count in English!

Is Jane rubbing Nick's back with snow, or a rock??

At the Johannisfall.

Clarisse came in to find the house full of smoke and a crisis to deal with before she even took her pack off!


Free Range Naturism / Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« on: September 03, 2019, 04:24:05 AM »
JBG, that is indeed the spirit that we should all be filled with. I'm not basically as bold as you are, but if I don't expect to get into trouble then I wouldn't hurry to hide behind fabric. Once you get a little used to it, meeting people when you're naked just isn't a big deal any more. But being with friends certainly adds a lot to one's level of courage!

General Naturism Discussion / Re: Nudes in the news
« on: August 29, 2019, 11:56:21 PM »
I assume that's "Secret Naturist". It was a discussion group that some people here remember affectionately, but as it was adults only I never joined.

Suggestions / Re: Uh oh!
« on: August 29, 2019, 11:48:32 PM »
Oh, good grief. Must we have this here?

Well, we can all be glad that we're Free Range Naturists, and not interested in those places where you can take your clothes off but still end up wearing gates and fences.

The rule at the Bare Oaks resort in Ontario is that they give a discount to couples, but couples can be any two people: you and your dear spouse, you and your gay lover, you and your best buddy, even you and a stranger who've arranged to meet outside the gate and never saw each other before. They used to have a rule saying they might insist on gender balance, but after never invoking it for a few years, they dropped it. If a place is limited to couples, I wonder if it's a partner-swapping place. Though there's a couples-only resort in New Hampshire, and it's very strict about conduct.

Yes, there are male-only resorts, but I'm sure nobody goes except gay guys. But some of us have got in the habit of doing a lot of naturist activities with male friends, typically married guys whose wives aren't interested. See most of my trip reports here! It works out fine, in fact knowing who'll be there probably reassures some of the stay-at-home wives.

General Naturism Discussion / Re: People who've given up washing
« on: August 19, 2019, 03:52:33 PM »
Thread drift reaches its logical conclusion. Or rather, continuation, since a circle has no end.

BlueTrain, you're up next. The topic is geometry.

General Naturism Discussion / Re: Nudes in the news
« on: August 15, 2019, 11:43:20 PM »
Sorry, for some reason that address won't function as a URL when you just click on it. It seems to be OK if you copy the text and paste it into a browser address bar. It starts off like this:

DSM-5 Category: Paraphilic Disorders

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) classifies the condition of Exhibitionistic Disorder as a mental health illness that centers on a need to expose one’s genitals to other people. The audience of this type of behavior is usually unsuspecting strangers; the result is sexual satisfaction for the exhibitionist. Exhibitionistic Disorder is classified under the larger category of Paraphilic Disorders. The term paraphilia refers to an intense sexual interest outside of normal genital stimulation. The majority of exhibitionists are males; and those with the disorder may deliberately arrange to be observed while having sex with other people. The behavior may be deliberate or unconscious; and the disorder may begin to manifest in the late teens or early adulthood. The DSM-5 does indicate that although all people with exhibitionistic disorder have a pattern of sexual conduct called exhibitionism, not all exhibitionists qualify for this diagnosis (American Psychiatric Association, 2013). The DSM-5 clarifies and emphasizes that the definition for exhibitionistic disorder is separate from the definition for exhibitionism as a general pattern of behavior (Zucker, 2013).

Possibly the last couple of sentences could be confusing--"exhibitionistic disorder" as opposed to "exhibitionism as a general pattern of behavior". I'm not smart enough to sort that out.

Introductions / Re: Transitioning from IYNO
« on: August 15, 2019, 11:08:51 PM »
Just having a little fun, without trying to be in yo face about it.

General Naturism Discussion / Re: Nudes in the news
« on: August 15, 2019, 08:24:31 PM »
I believe that men who say exhibitionism is harmless need to hear about it from a woman. As with a fair number of male behaviors, actually.

JBG, that statement about how "DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) no longer diagnoses exhibitionism and voyeurism as disorders" seemed unlikely to me, so I looked it up. I think you may have this wrong:

They mention "Transvestic Disorder" too. Do any of us need to worry?

Introductions / Re: Transitioning from IYNO
« on: August 15, 2019, 04:44:06 PM »
Being in denial could be bad for a naturist. You have to watch out for da crocodiles.

And as for IYNO:

Yes, I know what it really is!

Free Range Naturism / Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« on: August 13, 2019, 06:57:39 PM »
JMF, sorry that we missed you while you were away. Annecy was a very nice city and we enjoyed it a lot, but the lakefront wasn't friendly to naturism. Also our one full day there was cool and rainy, but it added "atmosphere" to a walk around the old town!

Apart from that missed connection, July wasn't a bad month. I'll start a new thread about the Naked European Walking Tour.

The Kiltedbros kilts are too long for comfortable walking, in my opinion. Even the "short" one is 20 inches long! I just measured them, and both of my skirts are 17 inches. I've thought that an inch or two shorter might be pleasant on the trail, but then I wouldn't want to try sitting down in company, unless the company were naturists.

Runningkilts doesn't specify the length of their kilts, but they do describe how to make one, and there they use a length of 17 inches as an example.

Sportkilt's "Hiking kilt" is 22.5 inches long--I suppose some people like it that way. They'll make it in a custom length, though (which adds $10 to the price, which was already $79.50) which can be as small as 18 inches. By contrast, the women's hiking kilt only costs $64.50 and the standard length is 18 inches. It's blatant discrimination, but the reviews indicate that at least one man has bought the ladies' model. Or you could try the "Mini kilt" at 14 inches, or the "Ultra mini kilt" at 12 inches, both "guaranteed to turn heads". That last one might seem a little short on most of us.

I didn't know you were back in Scotland, Karla. Anything to do with Brexit?

All the pictures here are thumbnails.

Here are Milton, Dan and myself in Florida a few years ago, in a picture taken by a ranger at the Ocala National
Forest. If he thought skirtmen were strange, I don't recall him mentioning it! Milton is in a custom-made number
produced by a friend's wife, and it's a wrap with velcro (its sad fate was to be lost in a boating accident, the
great Battenkill disaster of 2016). Dan has a pull-on type from Runningkilts Inc. I'm in a boring pair of shorts.

I made a few pictures out on the front porch, where I could put the camera down on the railing. Here's my usual
hiking skirt, a nylon wrap made as a women's swimsuit cover-up (a doubly useless item) which I bought on eBay.
It's made by Tyr, a swimsuit manufacturer, and although it's a women's large size, it was pathetically too small.
I added some velcro patches so it would be functional for me. This made the amount of overlap less, but it's
perfectly usable.

At the same time as the dark blue skirt, I bought this one, made by Columbia. It fastens with snaps and it's a
little tight on me, but once I've had it on for a minute it seems to settle into place. Rather than use this as a
hiking skirt, I tend to wear this one for clothed excursions when I'm with naturist friends. If you have to wear
clothes, at least be a little transgressive, that's what I say.

This shows how much overlap that Tyr skirt has. No full unwrap while I'm in public view!

Well JBG, nudity may expose some undeniable differences, but at the same time it's neutral--nobody is being required or forbidden to wear any particular garment. Just "We'll all be naked". Then what shows, shows.

There were some instances in British schools a couple of years ago where boys wore skirts during a heat wave. The school uniform (uniforms are quite common in Britain) was a choice of long trousers or skirts, but not shorts, no matter how hot it was. The kids were allowed to do it, but I wonder if they tried it more than one day! It's ironic that some old-fashioned British schools actually do require boys to wear shorts, no matter what the weather is. That links up with another recent thread here, where I said male clothing is always likely to involve compulsion rather than free choice.

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