Author Topic: Hugs  (Read 616 times)

Safebare

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Hugs
« on: February 13, 2018, 01:34:03 AM »
An article in today's paper reminded me of a topic I wanted to bring to this group https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/is-the-era-of-hugging-over-some-people-sure-hope-so/2018/02/09/f5a12d16-0770-11e8-8777-2a059f168dd2_story.html?utm_term=.5f53b7a4a9c3
The article discusses the impact of the #metoo movement has on the part hugging plays in our culture. 
I am proud that I come from a family of huggers.  I grew up with the notion that hugs were not only appropriate among family and close friends, they were expected.  Now, there were the odd aunts and uncles that you only reluctantly engaged in a hug even though you often couldn't finger exactly why.  And that was why there have always been a variety of differing versions of the basic hug: Full-on, A-frame, side, back, etc. 
The other distinct variable is duration.  There are certain members of my family that have this hugging thing down pat.  There is an air of regret when the hug is finally broken.
But what about strangers and other social situations, work, acquaintances, parties, gatherings, events, etc.  This brings me to this group.  Some of the best hugs from friends I haven't yet, or only recently met, were at gatherings such as The Rainbow Gathering and certain Pagan events. 
Since I don't frequent landed nudist places, I cannot speak to the hugs there, but friends I have made at clothing optional or nude friendly events have been, to my unscientific eye, excellent huggers.
The Arts event on the 5th Tuesday of January was just an event.  The hostess of the event was at the registration table decked out in stockings and a fancy blazer (it was chilly), but nothing else.  Once we finished the business process of our attendance, our conversation grew more open, compelling her to step around the table for a full-on hug.  Nothing could have said 'WELCOME' any better than that!
So, I ask you, what is your position on hugs?  I think I can figure out JBee and Karla, but would like to hear from each of you. 
I do not intend any criticism of the #metoo movement.  I have personally been on the receiving side of unwanted physical attention and found it difficult to deal with as a fully capable male.  It is about time we unveiled the predatory actions and other overt sexual harassment holding those violators accountable.  But, losing hugs is a high price for which i doubt there will be any benefit.  It would be like removing sex because of the numerous sexual predators out there.  We cannot let the actions of others interfere with our due rights to enjoy life.  Could life be worth living if hugs were forbidden?

Blessed (and Naked) Be,
Safebare

Bob Knows

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 04:48:06 PM »
I've never been quite sure about hugs.  I like hugs with women.  I don't particularly like hugs with men.  An old fashion hand shake with a man is plenty.  Yes there are sexual feelings between normal men and women.  I find that enjoyable.  Anyone who complains can go bark up another tree. 
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
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Safebare

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 06:54:58 PM »
Let's see if I got this right. And please, no offense intended. Hugs are preferred for women, but men get a hand shake, because sexual feelings are normal. Are hugs sexual? I guess the intimacy infers sexuality, but that's an old argument against nudity.
Not sure I can get on board with that.

pjcomp

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 07:03:15 PM »
Whatever our present feelings/opinions we are all the products of our upbringing and environments that have got us to where we are. We may have overcome or altered a lot of those things, but others are embedded and leave us feeling comfortable/uncomfortable without any good or easily adjustable reason.
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nudewalker

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 04:37:11 PM »
Our family, and out circle of friends, are all huggers.  It has seemed normal to me as that is the environment I was raised in, so was my wife and most of our friends. I guess it's an Eastern European thing. And that goes for both men and women.
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

JOhnGw

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 05:35:33 PM »
I find there is a great variety of hugging or non-hugging behaviour amongst the people I meet and associate with and I tend to go along with whatever is comfortable for them.
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

jbeegoode

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 11:37:40 PM »
I find there is a great variety of hugging or non-hugging behaviour amongst the people I meet and associate with and I tend to go along with whatever is comfortable for them.
I do too, if I can ascertain where they are at. I've had women hug well and then...suddenly, the bolt away. I often do a hug more cheek rub than body embrace, if I don't know someone female well enough. You can express quite a lot with two cheekstogether and stay away from their sexual reactions. The men, I don't do the cheek thing with.
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 12:24:16 AM by jbeegoode »
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jbeegoode

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 12:22:19 AM »
The nude on nude hugs are tricky. The men are more stand sideways, or off center to keep genitals from bumping into one another. It helps if one party is clothed or partially covered.

At the sweat, I'd rather not be hugged sometimes when a slime, oil detoxing person comes from the sweat and wants to rub it on me before they shower, or scrape it off.

Some people, we know each other well enough, full on long and loving whether clothed or nude. Others, not so much. Clothed hugging is the same.

It gets to be something like Japanese bowing. You learn the subtleties and correct as needed. Women who don't hug, I don't trust. They can even react negatively, they can jump to assumptions easily and act on them. This is tell tale about them generally. They are not healthy people, nor can I trust them. I can easily discard these people and stay weary of them.

Guys who don't hug, are often homophobic, or just not used to this new thing of hugging a guy. I understand them, I've been there before. Rare, but some women are like that.

Having grown up in the military and staunch Kansan Victorian stiffness, not able to express, or even be my true self, my emotions, I worked through to liberation. I fought hard to learn to trust and hug, by doing what I was raised to be incorrect, or even crude behavior, as revolution, as mom an dad certainly wouldn't. I enjoy my liberation. When that becomes threatened by a sick individual who is either still back there or has been damaged by some jerk, I resent and feel threatened by them. When they start to make social rules instead of keeping their own problems to themselves, I'll react even verbally and clearly, "Don't make me sick like you."

As the article states, hugs are health and good for a system, natural. It is kind of like being naked around others. You must learn to trust people, when to trust people, know that you may get hurt, but the risk is worth it and it is how you learn to not repeat the mistake. Hugs and other intimacies are a part of the complex human interaction, not to be dumbed down denigrated, or diminished with a black and white social rule of thumb.

To all the sickos, go f** yourself, it is your choice to do such. Just don't impose your shortcomings upon the rest of us. Kind of like being naked isn't it?

The girl scouts are full of SH*T! Sometimes you have to take a kid and drop her into the pool, to get her to trust water. It is harmless. Children don't always know what is best for them, that they are learning bad habits. Going off into a corner alone isn't a choice in independence for a child. You have to coerce them out. Anyone can hug and learn that your body is still yours. If a kids is reluctant to hug, then someone needs to tell them how they feel about that, which maybe hurt, left out, no trust in the relationship, rejection, or a host of other consequences. Then they kid learns to give empathy, give of themselves, love and caring for another. Boundaries and defense should not be taught as so cut and dry. It is teaching them to be unhealthy less outgoing human beings.

The Boy Scouts are a problem for body acceptance, nudity issues. I've had personal dealings with this. For all the good, there are some lousy unwritten rules in the staff, enough to keep a kid away from them, or monitor closely what they are teaching my kid.

AND  ;D, handshakes pass viruses, sweaty palms. I often wash my hands after a handshake. With hugs, I don't have that concern.

Maybe, nothing says friendship better than I hug.
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 12:26:54 AM by jbeegoode »
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Safebare

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 03:11:29 PM »
Incredibly well spoken JBee.
Except for the negative points about scouting. I was much of a boy scout, didn't agree with the structure and 'brain washing', but did learn a lot about acceptance and being comfortable in my own skin from scouting and boys camp.
Hugging certainly is the best expression of friendship.

Hugs,
Safebare

eyesup

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 07:44:03 PM »
I like hugs. They’re important. Hugging is an unmistakable sign of happiness or welcome in most western cultures. In many non-western cultures touching another person has all sorts of implications that have to be considered.

I prefer to go with my instincts with each encounter. If people would just calm down and trust their own intuition, things would probably be better. Stop worrying about whether you are violating someone’s idea of what is appropriate. Just focus on the potential hug participant. If their body language says don’t hug me, don’t. It’s not worth it to start off on the wrong foot.

For the most part, my family is a bunch’a huggers. Most often, a big and happy hug other times reserved and polite. All kinds. My dad’s family had 9 kids, so did my mom’s. I had 16 aunts and uncles excluding spouses with a grand total of 49 cousins. All from the south. I have relatives as far north as Chicago to Montana and from Georgia to Colorado. Since we all grew up in different areas of the country that made a large enough group to see all sorts of different behavior. With some cousins, I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen them in my life. Others I saw multiple times a year while growing up. Lots'a huggin' goin on! ;D

Jbee’s comments about nude hugs I agree with. About Scouts, not so much. My son and daughter were both in scouts and for the most part the kids involved in those groups turn out well. As one of the leaders in the group, we could only work with the kid that showed up and has likely been taught a good bit of their future beliefs by the time they arrive and join. Ya’ work with what’cha get.

I don’t worry about whether others have hang-ups, I can’t concern myself there. I’ll spend a little effort but won’t make it into a quest to teach or reform them. Generally, a bit of conversation can tell you where they stand. If they learn, great. If not well I just move on. I am comfortable in my own skin and not worried about hugging a man, although being hugged by a stranger, man or woman, would be unexpected, even for a southerner like myself. I try to pick up on whether someone is at ease with that level of familiarity and go from there.

I was delighted to learn about my own willingness to push my boundaries when I met Jbee and the gang down in Dewey, AZ. When Jbee and DF arrived at the campsite it was night and I had a fire going. They both stepped out of Jbee’s red forever-runner, slipped into their clothes (it was wet and a bit nippy), and we greeted each other. Jbee naturally hugged me after I offered a handshake greeting and then I got a small but warm hug from DF. See, I can learn if I pay attention.

After the hikes and events of the following day we parted company with Ken and Amy. At that point they had both dressed but I was naked when hugging them goodbye. That was the 1st time I had ever done that. The next day Jbee, DF and I said our goodbyes in the forest west of Prescott after our naked noontime snack. All good! See here, part 2 of Jbee’s report on that trip posted on his website. The 19th photo down is one of Jbee and I walking along the road after we had packed up to leave. Touching another man, other than a handshake, while naked was something new for me. Walking along the dirt road, where another car could have rolled along at any minute, while doing so was somewhat liberating.

During all the visiting, hugs occurred and at 1st I was hesitant to hug someone naked, but was surprised at how natural it felt. I also discovered that I was more comfortable naked in a group than I had anticipated. The hugs had been a good part of it.

Still, naked or clothed, I enjoy hugs and would be sad to see such an important human custom get kicked to the curb for PC reasons. Hugs are spontaneous and something important and significant would die out of our lives if that happened.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 07:19:37 AM »
Incredibly well spoken JBee.
Except for the negative points about scouting. I was much of a boy scout, didn't agree with the structure and 'brain washing', but did learn a lot about acceptance and being comfortable in my own skin from scouting and boys camp.
Hugging certainly is the best expression of friendship.

Hugs,
Safebare
I should probably apologize. I figured that you two would disagree. Hope not to offend you. I have to admit that I have a chip on my shoulder from a maddening experience. The local scout leaders took the side of my conniving ex-wife, my son's mother. She was using them and the nudity/children issue falsely to steal custody to gather financial gain. Their issue was nudity and children and sexist discrimination toward me, both interfering with my rights and relationship with my son. They refused to give me his whereabouts, like a kidnapping. Seems thinking about those shenanigans that affected me so deeply are yet to feel solidly forgiven. I pulled him away from such a disrespectful meddling group and won in court against her, after expending several thousand s dollars.

I was a Lion Cub. It was a good experience. Nobody hugged back then.

Now then, back to the topic survey at hand....
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 07:52:20 AM by jbeegoode »
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eyesup

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 07:01:52 PM »
No apology needed when speaking honestly, Jbee.

We saw all types of behavior in both organizations. At the troup level in both it’s all run by volunteers so there were all kinds of personalities interacting. What we found sad in both was the absence of parents in the programs and noticed a correlation between the success of the scout and the participation of the parent(s). Some flat out used us for a babysitting service. It could be very frustrating sometimes.

The PC culture is creeping in on the Boy Scout side. I heard from a friend of mine after my son aged out. A boy was on a campout and as the adage goes, “boys will be boys’, he got caught up in an incident where a joke was played on another scout who then told his parents who then reported the boy to scout leadership and the young boy was kicked out. As it turned out the reported incident never happened yet the officials wouldn’t let him back in. He was kicked out for sexual harassment that never actually occurred. Even after the family came back and told them it had all been a mistake they wouldn’t budge. The accusation stood. Unfortunate.

Gender and identity politics are seeping in everywhere and I don’t know where it’s gonna end. We were surprised to see this article about some girls in California from a few years ago. Then almost 2 years later Boy Scouts issued this notice that I’m still cogitating on.

It’s getting tougher to do anything without having lawyers in the middle of it. And kids aren't being allowed to just be kids anymore. If you don't allow them to make mistakes, there are no learning opportunities.

We haven't seen the end of all this me too stuff. Hopefully the end result will be an improvement.
Times, they are a changin’.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 03:46:07 AM »
Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts I get. Are we not missing something when they become just "scouts"? Why don't girl scouts just include boy scouts programs and badges and be done with it? Yup, its gotten very weird.
Jbee
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pjcomp

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2018, 08:47:40 AM »
For quite a few year# now the Scouts in the UK have accepted girls, but there’s no sign of boys being invited to join the Girl Guides (I guess our equivalent of your Girl Scouts). A bit one-sided.
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BlueTrain

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Re: Hugs
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2018, 10:14:04 PM »
I did not grow up in a "hugging environment," at least not as I think of it. My mother was an invalid, which may have been part of it. Even now, I really get nothing out of it except a little embarrassment. Maybe it's a consequence of living in a conservative environment in some ways. Essentially, I don't want to feel another person's body, when you get right down to it. It's seems like among people that I don't know at all and even among those I'm related to, it's overly and immediate intimacy, especially since all of this happens in public, which is to say, in front of other people. I can't imagine hugging anyone in private except my wife and, well, we just don't do that--and we aren't even English. We wouldn't even hold hands in public. We fall all over one another at home, getting in one another's way but we don't hold hands in public. But I'm 71 and a little old-fashioned.

That said, she happily accompanied me to the hospital for an operation last fall and was there when I finally had to get undressed. I have no embarrassment about that at all. But someone had to be there with me and I can't imagine anyone else being there. At least there had to be someone to drive me home, which they required. I could have driven home myself but I don't think I could have made it to the car.

However, one member of the extended family is from Serbia and they have the charming custom of the two kisses. We like her and don't see her often enough, but not necessarily just for that reason. That's the closest I get to a hug.

Once, when I picked up my wife at school after her car was damaged, the assistant principal spontaneously gave me a hug. To this day I have no idea why but the principal, who was also there, said she didn't have to hug me. But the assistant principal hugged me--I didn't hug her.