Author Topic: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest  (Read 1124 times)

jbeegoode

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Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« on: May 16, 2018, 08:13:08 AM »
We travel up the other fork into the Whetstone Mountains. There we learn more about this piece of Arizona:

https://thefreerangenaturist.org/2018/04/30/whetstone-weekend-part-iii-oaks-in-the-forest/

Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 12:12:41 PM »
I enjoy reading your trip reports and descriptions of the countryside. Are these places all close to the border?

jbeegoode

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 07:10:18 PM »
Depends on what you call close. This place was approximately "in line/slightly south of" with the road bordercheck point from I-10 to Sonoita. They have these spots that stop everybody, with dogs and ask your citizenship, etc. They were deemed illegal back in 1970 by the supreme court when Nixon did his horridly ignorant destructive bravado trick, but somehow they are back and have been for many years. There are patrols along the Old Sonoita Highway south of there. Grab a google map and find the junction of Highway 82 and 90 just north of Huachuca City, Arizona. This is northwest of that intersection. It looks to be 25 or 30 miles from the borderline. There is a grand gap south of these mountains of grassland and ranches. Otherwise, there would have been more traffic where there is water. Nearly no one had been there for months. judging the tire tracks, overgrowth and lack of rain that we have had, even the ranchers.

The Tucson area is an hour from Nogales. I think 70 miles. Tomorrow we're heading down to two areas that see more illegal pack/foot traffic and patroling. The geography causes that, but the latitude is similar.

It feels like Arizona USA, but when we get in the mountains, we are looking at Mexico. When my folks had their house in the Catalina foothills and the air was clear, 40 years ago, we could see the mountains in Mexico from the front porch from Tucson. There is a great Mexico influence. Most of these areas that we visit were once Mexico before the Gadsen Purchase.

Lots of Hispanic proper names, on streets, buildings and food. Lots of Mexican ancestry and history. The border can be the way that you feel it. The artificial one is just a set of laws and restrictions.

I'm not sure what you were getting at with that question, so you now have several answers. Why do you ask? What were you thinking to ask? I'm sure that I can address the more specific.
Jbee
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 07:27:06 PM by jbeegoode »
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BlueTrain

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 07:56:23 PM »
Curiosity, mainly, to clarify a reference in your trip reports, the part where you mention the Border Patrol stop. Although we have been to Arizona, we did not go south of Phoenix.

By the way, in the place where I'm from, any sign is fair game for a pot shot, especially if it has a deer on it.

jbeegoode

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2018, 02:26:57 AM »
Deer, elk, mamma bear with her paw stuffed up the little bears butt, get pot shots, but generally not with the veracity of these signs. The black figure usually is a target.

The have structures to them these days. By law, they have to be between a certain distance from the border, I don't know what that is anymore off the top of my head. They are on major routes. The trucks cruise the rest. I never know when I might see one, or where, but closer to the border, I'll expect them. They set up like a war zone in some areas. It is creepy. They are not looking for naked people, just smugglers.

The Ruby Road trip report talks of the war zone. After this weekend, I'll be setting up a twenty year old story about border patrol and a nude group to publish in a month or two. It is written, but I need to gather some pics to go with it. Maybe, I'll move the publishing date up.
Jbee
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rrfalcon

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2018, 11:30:06 PM »
I think that the Border Patrol checkpoints were ruled to be legal if they are within a certain distance of the border. Essentially it's still a border crossing station where they have the power to stop and, at their discretion, search everyone who passes through. Beyond that distance, it's no longer covered by border security and a warrant or reasonable cause is required to stop or search people. Note that I'm not a lawyer, so all of the preceding might be wrong! :-)

jbeegoode

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2018, 09:30:40 PM »
I think that they are limited in search and seizure, or to reasonable cause. They have dogs, they look into the vehicle and listen.  i don't know what the criteria are. There are people driving through who have been snitched off, or seen doing something previous to their trip.

There are checkpoints for drunk drivers. I think that it had something to do with the basis for those.

I resent it. We resent having to get dressed like a paper doll to cover our bodies. They are Feds and there have always been stops to check for interstate fruit shipping violations. 

All my opinions are about vague rulings, not an attorney either. I wouldn't be fool enough to ask a border patrol agent. ;D
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2018, 08:34:42 PM »
Early April, how were the temperatures?

I like the ďNo campingĒ sign photo. :D  Yeah, others seem to have expressed their opinion of the rancherís idea of privilege.

The person posting the no trespassing sign has conveniently left off the name and address. Maybe some recourse there? Could it be a bluff?

I always carry a couple plastic bags in my pack to drag trash out. Occasionally I donít have enough bags. Itís sad and frustrating. So many people simply think that the trash will just decay. There has to be a lot of water for that to happen. In the desert it will deteriorate, but it takes years. The wind and rain slowly wear it down till it disappears. Itís more a process of erosion than decay. Some of the ghost towns weíve been in have trash left from over 100 yrs. ago.

More evidence that we need to take a trek down there for some camping. I donít think I could convince Mrs. E to do the primitive camping routine. She loves camping but prefers the more organized campground sites. Maybe Iíll try and do some baby step camping in quasi-remote sites as and introductory.

Loved the pictorial story.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2018, 07:08:42 PM »
Mrs. E might take to a more glamping set up. A less primitive site has a toilet and water. rarely a shower. That is easy to compete with.

I built a nice shitter (or the nice green way to say it "composting toilet facility") for my sweat for the price of scrap wood and a five gallon bucket. Toilet seat at Goodwill. With peat, it is clean and actually much nicer than many of those public toilets, and the chemicals, that I hate to use. Certainly beats a porta potty. Try a nice wood finish. You take water in a big jug, $15. You put a nice oriental rug on the floor from a garage sale. A good size air mattress, pump plugs into the car cig lighter. Then those solar showers work, well okay, just okay. Erect PVC enclosures, or find a remote spot for privacy. $100 to $200 easy. $50 to $100 with what you have laying around and some frugality and search. Mirror and sink? Easily done.

Fewer people, less noise, more pristine. Real ground, not dirty ash laden dusty dirt from over use.


The temps were wonderful. Morning sun on a southern slope, afternoon on the northern slope. Nice breeze to even things out.
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 01:29:43 AM »
Yeah, all those are good ideas and she does well even at a limited campsite, e.g. toilets only. What you might call frugal glamping. :)  She likes the car camping so coming up with a solution for the minor conveniences (a tipío the hat to luxuries) might make her willing to push the edge, so to speak.

Your toilet parts list reminded me of a friend of mine whose wife DID like to go backpacking. He said the whole process of needing a toilet was solved by her on a trip where she ran across the sun bleached pelvic bone of a large animal. I donít remember what he said it was from.

She took it and set it on some stones so the large curved bones were turned up so she could sit on it just like a chair seat, and set it a foot or so above the ground. She dug a hole beneath and voila, a toilet seat! Happy as a clam! * :D  My friend was laughing because she was so pleased with her invention. Unfortunately she has since had to give up the backpacking because of a serious knee injury. But making do what materials at hand is a good way take care of things.

When we camped at the GC south rim we stayed in the campgrounds which were good, clean and very well maintained. Itís a nice campground, but the problem for me was the fact that it was so crowded. It was packed. Over 300 campsites and booked solid. Not my idea of a enjoyable camping trip. But we were on our way home and we just needed a place to pitch a tent.

I hate to think what that place is gonna be like this coming weekend. Glad I wonít be there.

Duane

* Why is it that are clams so happy?

jbeegoode

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 05:50:59 AM »
The toilet construction is explained on the internet, I can get you the info. Very easy. A friend of mine has know the guys who make them, since they were young kids.

That hip bone idea id brilliant...but then have a little respect for the dead?...or yea, that's what the previous owner did with it.

HAppy as a clam! Everything is on te internet it would seem.

"What's the origin of the phrase 'As happy as a clam'?

Why would clams be happy? It has been suggested that open clams give the appearance of smiling. The derivation is more likely to come from the fuller version of the phrase, now rarely heard - 'as happy as a clam at high water'. Hide tide is when clams are free from the attentions of predators; surely the happiest of times in the bivalve mollusc world. The phrase originated in the north-eastern states of the USA in the early 19th century. The earliest citation that I can find is from a frontier memoir The Harpe's Head - A Legend of Kentucky, 1833:

    "It never occurred to him to be discontented... He was as happy as a clam."

As happy as a clamThe first definitive record that I can find of the 'high water' version is from the US newspaper The Bangor Daily Whig And Courier, December 1841:

    "Your correspondent has given an interesting, and, undoubtedly correct explanation of the expression: 'As happy as a clam at high water.'"

However, several biographies of General Robert E. Lee state that he used the expression 'as happy as a clam at high water' on more than one occasion. One such states that he included it in a letter that he wrote in 1833, which would pre-date the above by a few years. I can't find a record of the letter in question so the account is second-hand, but it is entirely plausible that Lee would have used the expression at that time.

The expression was well-enough known in the USA by the late 1840s for it to have been included in John Russell Bartlett's Dictionary Of Americanisms - A Glossary of Words And Phrases Usually Regarded As Peculiar To The United States, 1848:

    "As happy as a clam at high water," is a very common expression in those parts of the coast of New England where clams are found.

Also in 1848, the Southern Literary Messenger from Richmond, Virginia expressed the opinion that the phrase "is familiar to everyone"."
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/as-happy-as-a-clam.html
Jbee

« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:29:42 AM by jbeegoode »
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Bob Knows

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 03:19:19 PM »
The toilet construction is explained on the internet, I can get you the info. Very easy. A friend of mine has know the guys who make them sense they were young.
Jbee


There is  a book on this topic called  How to Shit in the Woods, 3rd Edition: An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art by Kathleen Meyer.  I looked it up for a link and I see its now in its 3rd edition. 

When I lived in Los Alamos, NM, it was the most popular book at the local bookstore. 

https://www.amazon.com/How-Shit-Woods-3rd-Environmentally/dp/1580083633/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1527254091&sr=1-1&keywords=How+to+shit+in+the+woods
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BlueTrain

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 03:33:20 PM »
The funniest nature book I've ever seen, and which was for sale in a museum shop, is Flattened Fauna.

jbeegoode

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 02:31:49 AM »
I picked up shit in the woods at your recommendation, Bob. Its around here somewhere... ??? ::)
Jbee
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pjcomp

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Re: Whetstone Weekend: Part III Oaks in the Forest
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2018, 01:39:20 PM »
Re the border patrol issue earlier, I came across this feature


https://flipboard.com/article/the-surge/f-50db7f3e87%2Ftexasobserver.org

on how itís affecting part of Texas. It mentions at one point that within 25 miles of the border, the border patrol can legally enter and search premises, so that would probably include stop and search of vehicles. In relation to other discussions weíve had about CCTV in the woods, seems they go in for that a lot in Texas, as well.

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