Author Topic: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.  (Read 1924 times)

Bob Knows

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It does seem to be getting a little better. A couple of decades ago I read a story that the President of INF resigned because he found himself the only naked person at the annual convention. The INF board still seems to be clothing compulsive, but at least some of the members are naked in the meeting photo.

http://www.nakedwanderings.com/blog/2018/10/18/that-time-at-the-inf-world-congress/
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nuduke

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2018, 07:37:52 PM »

It does seem odd that so many inn the picture are clothed.  I only skimmed the article but did read that they has permission to be naked in the conference.  It seems odd that so many elected o remain clothed.  Maybe the aircon was set too high and it was chilly!
If it were me I'd be out of my clothes in no time and tempted to occupy other parts of the hotel as well if in a big posse ref. Norman's account of being in a pub and remaining clothed after a naked walk!
John

John P

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 04:58:04 PM »
At and after the last INF congress, there was a fight over an attempt to replace Sieglinde Ivo (from Austria) by Armand Jamier (from France) as INF President. Apparently that's all settled, but maybe there's some lingering resentment. Neither of the two American national organizations think it's worth the money to be affiliated with the INF.

Regarding clothes, I think there's a European attitude involving a sense of ritual. In 2014 I went on the Naked European Walking Tour  and I heard a conversation  between French people, which unfortunately I only partially understood. They were members of the French group APNEL, Association for the Promotion of Naturism In Freedom, which is an organization that's very attached to what we call free range naturism, rather than visiting resorts. They had gone to the French naturist convention, run by the FFN, the national organization. And apparently, there was a dispute about nudity there, where the hikers said "We are naturists, so let's be naked as much as possible". But the members of the FFN said "No, we're here to discuss serious issues, we can't be playing around naked". Apparently, there was a lot of noise. (My knowledge of French is limited and I may have missed a bit, but at least they weren't from Quebec.)

We also hear people who went to European naturist centers who said, "It was very nice, but everyone dressed for meals. There didn't seem to be a rule requiring clothes, but we were the only ones to dine naked. " I wonder if there is a European idea that nudity isn't always appropriate, even when it's possible.

jbeegoode

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 07:32:25 PM »
When I lived in France mid-sixties, meals were ritual to sacred to fast food American me. Proper cutting of desert fruit, fork in which hand,  we Emily Post trained Americans were often frowned at, like being crude. On the side of the road, in the grass, lunch was served on a card table, white cloth, napkins, real silverware, etc. I suppose that coming from those days, much ritual is still influencing people. I can think of no other reason to dress for a meal. DF has a thing about eating at the table. Food taste better, bonding, making it a special occasion, showing gratitude to God for the meal, all ritual. Clothing dress up goes with that.

There are many who think that taking clothing off is just recreation and work is serious stuff requiring uniform and attitude, properly dressed for it supports work ethic. They are cultural dinosaurs to me. Work needs to be enjoyable, passionate, meaningful, an alive creative fully experienced act. The clothing in the way. Rolling up my sleeves isn't enough, rip the sleeves off and be aware. Balance of production and being in the moment healthy.

I suspect that these FFN were likely attached to resort industry values and not body freedom and social change.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 08:24:39 PM »
I'm probably one of the dinosaurs. I never saw work quite the way you put it, although I enjoyed the work I did for the most part. All the companies I worked for went through changes in ownership, however, and those were stressful times. In all cases, I eventually had to find another job. The last time, though, I was 71 and decided it was as good a time to retire as any.

People desire freedom so they may be slaves to their passions.

jbeegoode

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2018, 06:19:06 PM »
"People desire freedom so they may be slaves to their passions."
I like that. A good something to ponder.
I always used to say that nothing is worth doing without passion.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2018, 06:25:29 PM »
I must give credit to Gerontissa Gabrielia, a Greek nun, who died in 1992, who wrote those words.

Are you aware there was a female saint, Mary of Egypt, who lived her life without clothing after fleeing to the desert?

jbeegoode

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2018, 07:22:50 PM »
Didn't know that one. Just did some internet reading. Naked aesthetic people, like sadhus are intriguing. My eyes rolled at the wikipedia pic where they had placed fur on her body like an animal.

Many saintly people have spent their time naked in nature. Buddha, and for many Indian high people, avatars, etc. they must spend time alone in the woods, just getting by. You know, living in a cave, etc. It is a very transcendental thing. This Mary certainly found herself in a rugged spot. Sorry to hear of someone suffering so much shame, but as the story goes, she found her path.
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 08:32:16 PM »
JohnP, was it the same no matter where?
I guess I can see that behavior if in a committee or bored room, but anywhere else that entertaining or fun activities are in motion one would think they would let their hair (et.al.) down.

There seems to always be a recalcitrant group looking for a way to segregate themselves. Factions, fractions and frictions are never completely removed.

Itís just human nature to try and be different. The problems arise when a group gets it into their tiny collective mind that that difference is significant and must be acknowledged.

Duane

John P

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 09:07:11 PM »
There was a fashion for ascetic hermit life in the first few centuries A.D., but back then nothing was being reliably recorded (plenty of miracles, so we hear) so who's to know what actually happened? Of course being female and naked, Mary of Egypt has the best-known legend. If there are still Jain monks in India, they're wandering around naked with the same idea. Later on, as an organized church dominated society, the hermits were mostly replaced with monks and nuns, withdrawing from normal life but being told how to do it. We still have them around, but they dress in somber clothes rather than growing fur.

In various religious traditions, being naked was seen as part of a life of renouncing worldly things. Maybe the Christian hermits were responding to the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus said not to worry about food or clothing: "And why take ye thought for rainment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: and yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these." Words to live by, there.

Oh yeah, we were talking about the INF, weren't we. Duane, trying to boost my memory of what was said a few years ago that I understood maybe a quarter of, I think the meeting in France was as you're speculating--the conservative faction would have got their clothes off if there were some fun times after the day's business was dealt with, which seems to be what the INF board does too. But the radicals were saying that naturists wear clothes when they have to, and "have to" doesn't include some notion that discussing organizations or legal matters makes clothes necessary! I'm definitely with the radicals there, because I think that naturism means we drop the idea of clothing as necessary for any social purpose (dealing with weather conditions or hazardous situations is something else again). I want naturists to say that it's a positive good to be naked with other people as much as possible. I'm not saying that we'd all return to a state of innocence if we did that, but it would be a pleasant thing to hope for.

BlueTrain

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 10:06:14 PM »
I am pleased that you all are taking references to religion and nudity in a positive way (I think!). I do not know why or when I became interested in monasticism, hermits and solitaries (the when I can guess). But it is a curious thing that those things really only came into being when Christianity became legal, speaking only from the Christian perspective. I say that even though much of it is irrational and makes no sense to me. Yet it persists and sure enough, many of them have web sites.

For many, though hardly all, the object is, among other things, detachment from earthly desires and passions. In theory, nudism (and note that I'm not saying naturism) implies a detachment or perhaps rejection of at least some worldly things. In practice, that may not be the case and modern nudism, as always, has been fertile ground for organizations, committees, "special interest groups," clubs, off-shore vacations and so on--not forgetting blogs and forums like this one.

You're probably asking yourself right now, "Is he one of us?"

jbeegoode

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2018, 09:32:06 AM »
Renunciates, I'm sure were happening in India before Christ. Some say Jesus went that way when he disappeared for a few years.

We politely have a tradition in this forum to stay away from religion and politics, so as to avoid contention about something that ain't naturism. I'm treading lightly.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2018, 11:53:17 AM »
Nudism is something of a religion, isn't it?

nuduke

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2018, 11:15:51 PM »
Nudism is something of a religion, isn't it?

I occasionally have a moment of concern about this.  Is my need to be naked a lot simply a matter of personal comfort and freedom from the limitations of wearing clothes or is it some sort of ritual that stimulates somewhere in my psyche a need for some sort of religion i.e. faith, requiring devotion to nudity?  I usually shrug such feeling off with the argument that there is no element of worship involved, no higher power at work and no structure to my observance therefore it can't be an accidental religion.  However, many nudists' collective need to get together in landed clubs, go on bike rides in cities and do mass skinny dips amongst other activities which are some sort of parallel with religious observance, in that, congregating together for some sort of higher purpose (social or political) has some of the hallmarks of religion.  Looked at another way, those examples of congregations are simply because they offer mutual protection when being nude in societies that do not routinely tolerate nudity in public. The naked bike riders might be said to be obliged to compromise and cycle in those events because it gives them the opportunity to do what they love - naked cycling - which they can't do at nearly all other times and places.
The Oxford Dictionary gives 3 definitions for the word religion:
  • The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
  • A particular system of faith and worship.
  • A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.
Well, I don't think the first has any currency for nudism.  Whilst the likes of Jbee and myself might talk about feeling the earth forces in nice deserted places when we are out and about, this is very much an internal thought and anthropomorphism of those pleasurable feelings and sensations auto suggested by, for example, the beauty, sounds or mystery of the locale.  So not really a system of belief or worship.  The second definition is equally invalid for the same reasons.
But the third?  Well I think that definitely covers what we do and think!  Naturism/nudism is a pursuit and if the evidence of many years correspondence on our forums is anything to go by, it is followed with devotion by many of us.  So nudism appears to be a religion by the third definition.  However, whilst we think of religions as being imbued with congregations, buildings, ritual and scripture, nudism isn't any of those things so I would define it as a religion merely in the practice of it.  Bob religiously wears a hat and Jbee religiously finds ever lighter ways to make his hiking pack, JOhnGW religiously makes corissants at the weekend, JMF religiously climbs mountains.  There are religions everywhere but they don't need churches, incense, costumes and bibles!
So, yes, Blue Train, I tend to agree with you!
John

Peter S

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Re: INF is a little better, but the Board is fully clothed in the photo.
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 06:25:31 AM »
John, surely you know that in the UK the only true religion is the NHS - do not bow down to false prophets!
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