An eloquent essay

[eyesup]

A wonderful display of perseverance and hope.

We like to talk about body shaming and how bad it is mostly in regard to our preferred state of dress while hiking in suburbia or in the wilderness. This student states her case about body shaming clearly and places the responsibility right where it belongs. With the perps. She isn’t talking about nudity or naturism. But the knee jerk reactions of a school board shows how much the general population has surrendered to the panicked screeching of bureaucrats curled into the fetal position. This isn’t some activist bouncing up and down on the public square. It’s a girl in school in a controlled environment being held accountable for the actions of others.

Such determination from a young lady of 15. Is admirable. If you wonder how the repressive rules about nudity happen, this little 500+ word essay gives you a peek behind the curtains. Kids are indoctrinated by the school system, from kindergarten to university on all sorts of PC issues, not just nudity. After that, it’s tougher to fix those perceptions.

Kinda creepy.

Duane

[Greenbare Woods]

We like to talk about body shaming and how bad it is mostly in regard to our preferred state of dress while hiking in suburbia or in the wilderness. This student states her case about body shaming clearly and places the responsibility right where it belongs. With the perps. She isn’t talking about nudity or naturism. But the knee jerk reactions of a school board shows how much the general population has surrendered to the panicked screeching of bureaucrats curled into the fetal position. This isn’t some activist bouncing up and down on the public square. It’s a girl in school in a controlled environment being held accountable for the actions of others.

She does a convincing sounding rant, but in the real world out of her sheltered school, women (and especially celebrity women) compete with each other to show off the most flesh -- while men wear full body tuxedos.   Its not that women are being used as sex objects so much as women are competing with each other to be the most "attractive" sex object. 

Female sexual competition behavior is evolutionary and biological.  It kept the species from going extinct and now drives the over population. 

[jbeegoode]

I worked in the schools for several years. The young women, from budding to gradation were wearing things that would be rare outside of a school. They enjoy being daring and noticed. They do get attention. Females will distract no matter how they move or dress. I have fought dress codes all of my life.

Equality is the first step. Making boys responsible for their own civil behavior comes before that. This kid's correct. It is like the "she was asking for it" BS.

The administrators want control, they want to show that they are traditional and they rationalize to make excuses to maintain the status quo. They require shoes for "safety" attempting to sound reasonable. They come up with bare shoulders, cleavage, skirt liength concepts that are just weirdly obsessive.

The bottom line the opposite sex is interesting, sexy, distracting, and these thoughts will come up. Children should be required to be naked, if anything, so they don't grow up with shame, unrealistic concepts of body image, function, or the importance of clothing. Of course then maturity would be defined as allowed to wear clothing, like getting rid of the school uniforms. They'd revolt.

So, what needs to be done...no dress codes anywhere. Nothing to criminalize a simply naked human body.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Equality is the first step. Making boys responsible for their own civil behavior comes before that. This kid's correct. It is like the "she was asking for it" BS.

When I was in school the girls wore knee length skirts and a "tight sweater" was "sexy."   Then the feminists got involved and started blaming boys and men for "ogling" or "bad" behavior.  So boys and men quit doing it.    Soon girls and women weren't getting the level of sexual attention they wanted so the tight sweaters were replaced by mini-skirts and low cut blouses.   When I was in college there were young women who never could sit on their skirts.  Blaming boys or men ignores the "up the ante" response of girls and women to being ignored.  We should just all recognize that a certain level of sexual attention and tension is normal and required as part of expected behavior. 

So, what needs to be done...no dress codes anywhere. Nothing to criminalize a simply naked human body.
Jbee

Having everyone go naked will remove competition for which girl can wear the most "sexy" outfit, and thereby get the most attention.  But it won't remove the natural attraction, flirting, etc., between young men and women.

Bob

[eyesup]

Yep! Hold the young men accountable for their actions. Raising the kids to see that exposed skin is not being provocative, would go a long way to eliminating many problems. This would help to foster a mutual respect among them that is lacking. It all begins at home.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

I'm working on a code of conduct for the Tucson sweat alliance. One of the board members wants to insert a few lines about provocative dress and also "exhibitionism, voyeurism, and sexually provocative." I'm having a tough time explaining that these terms also mean some pretty basic behaviors and huge grey areas. Dress codes are made to be broken and as Bob says, there is a certain amount of natural attraction, flirting, etc. between young men and women. The "survivors" of sexual abuse often have difficulty understanding that.

The simple act of dancing naked can be construed to be an act of social exhibitionism, voyeurism, and provocative, flirting, etc. They are uptight trying to solve their own hangups by tightening others behavior and totally desexualizing everyone, a fools errand.

Jbee

[BlueTrain]

Are you saying we can behave anyway we want and if we do, it isn't our fault? Rules are meant to be obeyed, aren't they? If not, why have any?

[jbeegoode]

Some rules are made to be broken. They are vague, they can be way restrictive and ignorant abuse.

In this case, I'm making the rules and making sure that they need to be there. Otherwise, I'll make sure that they don't get made.
Jbee

[Peter S]

Rule (and law) making is a fraugh5 area, all too easy for the rule makers to know what they mean but the result to be open to misunderstanding and ambiguity. As always, the human componen5 is the fallible bit.

[BlueTrain]

No, most laws should not be written in detail to the Nth degree because it removes discretion on the part of law enforcement and the judicial system. And besides, the rule makers are not always in agreement. That is, members of legislative bodies. There are lots of rules made by administrative officials, too, who probably aren't even worried about the things you are.

[Greenbare Woods]

Most rules should say what IS LEGAL, and not what is illegal.  And, laws should be broadly worded to legalize normal human behavior is legal. 

Its legal to go naked.
Its legal to be partly naked
Its legal to talk to people or look at people.
Do whatever you like as long as nobody else is being actually hurt.   Hurt means physical or financial injury.

[eyesup]

Civil disobedience is an honored American tradition. If we don’t like a rule or law we are always allowed to challenge them. The trick is, of course, is the civil part.

We are most certainly allowed to refuse to obey any law or any rule in a non-violent way. As long as you are willing to accept the consequences of your actions (WITHOUT complaining), I might add, you can do anything you want. But it will always be your fault. You should be held accountable for anything you do.

Duane

[Peter S]

There’s a difference, if only of degree, between society’s laws and a small group’s rules. Laws do indeed need to have wriggle room for changing interpretations and different eventualities (and for lawyers to earn their crust arguing over them in court). The rules of a small group get more personal and don’t usually have the benefit of a judge and jury to arbitrate; they also cover better defined areas so can be more closely crafted to try to avoid future misinterpretation. If only people weren’t involved, they could be perfect ...

[BlueTrain]

Civil disobedience may be an honored American tradition but it will get you killed in a few places. There's also the matter of being politically correct, which is in force everywhere, although you may not think so. It may even be more important.

[Peter S]

Although it is regarded as being against the politeness that is supposedly British, we too have an honourable history of civil disobedience, back in the days when the London mob would express its feelings by overturning the carriages of the ruling class and lobbing rotten vegetables at the monarch. That was before we had Bobbies on tne beat and they go to ript shields.