Gender Neutral Restrooms in the US

[Davie]

How can you read the paper whilst squatting!! A good sitdown in the bog is a good escape from the real world

Davie 

[Greenbare Woods]

Looking for something funny to write about bidets I read this just now on a bidet manufacturers website:  "The multitude of toilet paper options available for purchase are staggering. On average, one roll of toilet paper costs $3 and Americans use approximately 34,000,000 rolls of toilet paper a day, which means that we spend a shocking $102,000,000 a day just on toilet paper! Purchasing a bidet seat  or bidet attachment can easily cut your toilet paper spending by 75% or more."  And evidently the recommended hygiene procedure is to use just water and not soap which dries out the skin in those regions, the manufacturer opines.

I quite using toilet paper more than 10 years ago when I got my bidet installed.    Warm water and no soap is good for a gentle wash off.   When I got my bidet I installed a soap holder nearby.  If you start using soap you end up with a soapy hand which needs further rinsing. 

My wife uses a bunch of it paper, mostly when she pees.  I will never understand women.

The paper industry spends a ton of cash promoting the use of paper and opposing common installation of bidet plumbing.  Follow the money.

When we had a new bathroom added to our house about 3 years ago, I wanted a squat toilet and a bidet in that one.  The wife was dead against the squat toilet on grounds that her arthritis doesn't allow her to squat plus, since the bathroom was downstairs, that would be the one that guests might use and the old conformity prejudices wouldn't permit that much deviation from the norm!  Squatting to defecate, as I think we have discussed before is the best cure for perianal haemorrhoids a man can get!  Take it from me.  As a sufferer from as early as teenage, I haven't suffered for many years now thanks to the discovery of squatting!  But I digress....
John

My knees have never been comfortable squatting.  Not even when I was young.   I couldn't do it now.   I got one of those devices that lift your feet while sitting.  It puts my hip and other muscles into a "squat" position but without my knees having to take up the weight.   Then a couple of steps over to the bidet for a quick warm water wash and I'm good to return to whatever else i was doing.

Bob

[BlueTrain]

Oh, I think people willingly use toilet paper with little concern for cost or environmental impact, although wood products are a renewable resource. Besides, companies that manufacture toilet paper and tissue spend "tons of cash" to get you to buy their brand instead of someone else's. If you spend $3 a roll, you're spending way too much. 

[Greenbare Woods]

Oh, I think people willingly use toilet paper with little concern for cost or environmental impact,

Most people have never tried anything else.  Its all they know. 

[BlueTrain]

Speaking only for myself, it's way, way down on my list of concerns. Maybe at the bottom.

[jbeegoode]

Well, my bottom is of considerable import to me!
Jbee

[jbeegoode]

The Tarahumara of the Sierra Madre are loosing their homeland to clear cutting. It is one of the most bio-diverse unique ecosystems on the planet and pretty pristine. These old growth trees are being turned into toilet paper.

Bidets are expensive. They need lots of space, nobody around here knows how t use one. Water is precious.

So, how do you dry and keep your pants dry when using a bidet, not that O don't have a solution for that? Do you use a towel?
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

The Tarahumara of the Sierra Madre are loosing their homeland to clear cutting. It is one of the most bio-diverse unique ecosystems on the planet and pretty pristine. These old growth trees are being turned into toilet paper.

Demand for toilet paper is causing massive deforestation worldwide.   Its a HUGE environmental problem and getting worse as Asian governments promote western toilets rather than roadsides.   A quick rinse with warm water makes one's bottom a lot more clean and cuts down no trees.  It also reduces paper problems in sewage collection and treatment. 

Women who also wipe when they pee tend to use several times as much paper as men. 

Bidets are expensive. They need lots of space, nobody around here knows how t use one. Water is precious.

I had to look it up.  Wall-mart gets something like $1 per roll depending on brand, etc.  You can get the really cheap industrial grade paper for about half that, or the fancy stuff for twice that much.   

I also looked up average usage.  https://www.controlnroll.com/how-much-toilet-paper-do-we-use/     Something like 50 rolls per year per person.   For a family that's $200 per year.  More for women than men. 

Looking again on Wal-mart they sell simple spray wash hoses for around $35.  They have toilet seats with built in bidet features from $50 to $200 or more. You can get the  Biobidet Ultimate Advanced Bidet Seat, Elongated, White  with Dual Nozzle Oscillating Wide Cleaning for  $300 including shipping.   Compared to a single year of paper purchases you can save money with the water wash.   

A very high end combination toilet and bidet with music, lighting, and warm air dry is around $2,600.    That's kind of excessive. 

My RV came with a simple hand held cold water spray nozzle on a hose.   While traveling I use it rather than paper. I've gotten used to feeling CLEAN all the time.  Even the simple spray and cold water beats not being clean. 

I'm not sure about water usage.  The warm water spray of a bidet can occasionally be prolonged because it feels good.  But the volume of water used isn't very high so it probably doesn't take as much water compared to producing paper and disposing of paper.  It does use a little more water in one's home.

So, how do you dry and keep your pants dry when using a bidet, not that O don't have a solution for that? Do you use a towel?
Jbee

Good question.   My wife bought some small white towels and we keep a stack of them near our bidet.  It does add one "small" load of wash every week or two to keep fresh towels.  Wife washes all the other towels twice per week anyway.

Compared to cutting down all those forests and the large scale toxic effluents from paper mills the bidet is a good solution even without the benefit of being clean all the time.

Bob

[Greenbare Woods]

Hers's another question.  If nudist resorts installed bidets for their customers would they still need to make everyone sit on a towel?    Likely that the towels are needed because everyone is just smearing their poo around with a wad of paper because that's all that is available.    Just a thought about nudism and body cleanliness. 

[Davie]

Yes because you wouldn't know if everyone had used it, just like no-one knows if every one has washed their hands after being to the bog.

Davie 

[jbeegoode]

One doesn't always get perfectly clean and there can be a nasty perspiration coming from a butt crack. An oily sweaty slime can mess the sitting spot. I wipe major mess and then use a wash cloth to tidy up, but I still use a towel when I sit on my fabric furniture and often the wooden chairs, but it is mostly just me and DF sitting in the house.

I'm going to look further into this bidet idea, especially with a stack of towels. Bob, you have presented some very intriguing information, thank-you. Got me thinking.

This seems to me to conflict with composting toilets, which are popular here in the desert. They use no water, require no plumbing, no septic, can be used to grow things better. Now, with that, I'm back to a washcloth after paper. We use recycled T.P. From Trader Joes, which is at a competitive price. It breaks down biologically very well (I've been getting my septic system refurbished lately, first hand info).

DF has shown concern about my use of washcloths to finalize my cleansing. She was concerned that the crap wouldn't get out of the cloths, even with rinsing and washing. Do you wash in hot water, or bake towels in a dryer? I'm thinking stopping being so squeamish about a little left over shit that can be wiped and washed off, but I'm not the lady. I told her that I wasn't concerned, but my arguments were weak. I don't know that she is convinced and happy with my use of washcloths in that way. I squeeze out a washcloth after a shower and let it sit with some of the soap still in it, then use quarter sections and more of these for my butt. That way I'm not washing them in huge piles wasting water, time and effort.

Being nude does air out and dry much better than being clothed and cooped up. That oily slime will occur when wearing clothing which retards the airing out, much more than nude.

My use of bidets has had at times water dripping down my leg. When I pull the pants up, they get wet. I'm not always happy with the quality of the water there at those times, wondering which is rinse and which is clean water on my leg. Gotta stand up to dry my butt and the water dribbles down my leg. It has been kinda messy at times. MAybe, I'm just doing it wrong? So, I dislike bidets when wearing clothes, but they are not so bad when nude with a towel.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

This seems to me to conflict with composting toilets, which are popular here in the desert. They use no water, require no plumbing, no septic, can be used to grow things better. Now, with that, I'm back to a washcloth after paper. We use recycled T.P. From Trader Joes, which is at a competitive price. It breaks down biologically very well (I've been getting my septic system refurbished lately, first hand info).

Not sure about the composting toilets.  A bidet would greatly reduce paper in a septic tank system.

DF has shown concern about my use of washcloths to finalize my cleansing. She was concerned that the crap wouldn't get out of the cloths, even with rinsing and washing. Do you wash in hot water, or bake towels in a dryer? I'm thinking stopping being so squeamish about a little left over shit that can be wiped and washed off, but I'm not the lady. I told her that I wasn't concerned, but my arguments were weak. I don't know that she is convinced and happy with my use of washcloths in that way. I squeeze out a washcloth after a shower and let it sit with some of the soap still in it, then use quarter sections and more of these for my butt. That way I'm not washing them in huge piles wasting water, time and effort.

My wife obtained a pile of little white towels.  I think they were sold as wash cloths.  I installed a small shelf near the bidet for the white towels.  After spraying for a while I rub myself with my hand in the spray water.  That ends up being clean and tidy for hand, butt cheeks, and anus.  The little towel ends up white and wet on a towel bar drying off.  If the towel comes out with a brown stain you haven't washed enough.  After a pile of little towels is collected she washes them in hot water and bleach.  All clean, white, and sanitary again. 

Being nude does air out and dry much better than being clothed and cooped up. That oily slime will occur when wearing clothing which retards the airing out, much more than nude.

If I were going outside at a nudist park after doing my business I would let myself drip dry.  Bodies do air dry well while naked.   Indoors I don't want to drip across the floor or make wet spots on chairs. 

My use of bidets has had at times water dripping down my leg. When I pull the pants up, they get wet. I'm not always happy with the quality of the water there at those times, wondering which is rinse and which is clean water on my leg. Gotta stand up to dry my butt and the water dribbles down my leg. It has been kinda messy at times. MAybe, I'm just doing it wrong? So, I dislike bidets when wearing clothes, but they are not so bad when nude with a towel.
Jbee

We have our little towels on a shelf near the bidet, but you are right that one needs to stand up to dry.   I usually don't get water running down my leg.  Maybe sitting there a minute after turning off the spray allows excess water to drip into the basin before standing up. 

I've gotten so used to being clean underneath that I really don't like staying in hotels and travel to other places where they don't have a wash facility.   

Bob

[jbeegoode]

Bob wrote:"I've gotten so used to being clean underneath that I really don't like staying in hotels and travel to other places where they don't have a wash facility."

I feel somewhat similar about public toilets and deification. Washing off and airing out is superior to paper and skid marks. I prefer clean. Mostly, business gets taken care of first of the morning, then I've taken care of such issues for the day. I consider a shower an all over bidet and I drop the clothes as soon as I'm securely in the hotel room.

I often feel similar about wearing clothing. Often, it just doesn't make sense, it gets in the way, it can be uncomfortable and unhealthy, unless I'm engaged and distracted in some activity. Last thing that I do before leaving and the first thing when I return home, deal with clothing. Guess we all have our preferences.
Jbee

[ric]

why is toilet paper soo expensive in the us? over here 3 quid would buy a pack of 9 rolls.

we allways use the cheapest tilet paper, its thinner than the branded products so degrades easier in our septic tank.

none of our bathrooms have the space for a bidet. but i honestly dont see the need for one,  when morning routine is out of bed , crap, shower , breakfast.

once arriving in a hotel late at night i peed in the odd looking porcelain bowl before realising the toilet was actually  behind the door.  and ive washed my feet in hotel bidets after a trip to the beach, easier to clean the sand out than in the shower cubicle.

[BlueTrain]

The lowest price at Wal-Mart is about $0.49 per roll, roughly equal to £0.37 or €0.43. The price was sometimes more when purchased in large packages, so beware. I don't know what it costs in other countries for comparison.

I hardly think that deforestation is happening because people use a lot of toilet paper and other disposable paper products but rather because the land is wanted for other uses such as agriculture or grazing. Deforestation has been going on for a long, long time, well before toilet paper and Sears-Roebuck catalogs were available. The biggest reason was because the lumber was needed. Trees are a renewable resource when forests are managed well, although some would object on the grounds that a tree farm, as they're called around here, are not diverse enough. It's something to think about as you sit around your off-grid wood-burning stove this winter.