Author Topic: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law  (Read 1520 times)

Bob Knows

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2018, 02:15:28 AM »
All I can say is that none of them set up speed traps, except for the Park Police. Have you been bullied? Some of our ancestors were slaves--and some were slave owners. All this talk about free men sometimes is a little hollow. No offense.

The county Sheriff uses speed traps to extort money from citizens.   The US was created by free men.  Politicians have been enacting ratchet effect laws and controls ever since, with the help of their hired goon squads. 
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jbeegoode

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2018, 11:31:42 AM »
Blue Train, maybe you should get out and mingle more.  This crap, including speed traps, hav ebeen around a long time. Today, I can take you to one at Oracle Junction, Arizona, but you drive. On teh way out there, I'll tell you stories about Oro Valley and their well know "Hitler Youth" cop and my experiences while trying to hold on to our establishment of the Town Of Tortolita and the police state tactics...and we're mostly upper middle class White people! Yes, I have been bullied, threatened and harassed.

It is just like the old southern highways to Florida robbing tourist, before the Interstate. Remember them?

Out here and up north and most of the south were not slave owners. Men were much more free in many ways, but not socially. Not always financially, but independence was there. I think that Bob's impression of the free men of the past is romanticized. I don't agree with you both.

Writing something offensive and then saying "no offense"...to me sounds a little hollow. I suggest proof reading what you write and elaborating your point instead. Jus' sayin'  that it might be a way to keep the tone around here more civil.
Jbee

 
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BlueTrain

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2018, 12:46:27 PM »
I see no reason to go to Arizona but I have been there. And according to the 1860 census, most southern families did in fact own at least one slave.  Never driven to Florida; took the Auto Train. The revolution was not fought for freedom; it was fought for independence. In fifty years of driving, I've never been stopped in a speed trap. Nor have I been bullied, threatened or harassed. I do not live in a police state but I guess you do. I'm sorry but I can't do anything about that. I moved to live in a good place to live.

Why do you think you've been singled out to be bullied, threatened or harassed?

John P

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2018, 03:46:25 PM »
I'm finding this political talk really tedious, especially since nobody is bothering to get any facts right. And the tone of paranoia from comfortable middle-class people is very puzzling. We're at the top of the food chain, guys, we ought to be appreciating it.

BlueTrain, history.com says this:
"The 1860 census shows that in the states that would soon secede from the Union, an average of more than 32 percent of white families owned slaves. Some states had far more slave owners (46 percent in South Carolina, 49 percent in Mississippi) while some had far less (20 percent in Arkansas)."

ric

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2018, 06:38:14 PM »
We have speed trap in the UK,.   Both static cameras and big white vans clearly marked.  The vans tend to park just inside the 30 mph urban limits.   But our roadsides are festooned with signs to remind drivers ofrural limits.   Basic rules is if there's Street lights it's 30  and there will be signs at the boundary. Any rural limits , normally 40 or 50 mph have to have regular repeater signs  so there is really no need to get caught..., Just abide by the limit..... I've been caught tw ice in 45 years.  Both times by mobile devices.  Not too bad , considering I probably exceed the limit somewhere Everytime I drive anywhere.

jbeegoode

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2018, 07:43:28 PM »
Back in the day, when I lived in Virginia, there every little town through the south on the highway to Florida had a quick series on signs, requiring lightning reflexes nearly slamming on brakes. Spaces out people on that long hard drive were easy pickens. There would be a local cop waiting staying busy all day and a convenient "judge" collecting a fine, in cash, from people with the threat of having to return, be locked up, etc. A very expensive toll in effect. I remember my dad reaction to being robbed one day by these highway men after saved vacation money. It was a revenue source for each town.

The Interstate Changed that, but network news did an undercover storythat found literally nearly all of the  mechanics would sabotage people's cars and over charge. Simple thievery. Add extra oil, lying about dipsticks to much more expensive unneeded abuse.

Myself, driving home at night being stopped, in the wrong looking for the upper class section of town. Walking the street in the lower class part of town, downtown.

More recent, we got together and incorporated the town of Tortolita. We had differences, border war  with adjacent Oro Valley who wanted to annex out fledgling town. I was a key player. I was stopped numerous times for the same brake-light that was never out. One of us was arrested, a dozen or so of us showed up doing the same thing, legally collecting their illegal annexation signs, and demand that they arrest us all. If a cop turning around quickly as he passed me going the other way, following my tail until I left their wanted borders and then parking sideways across the two lanes at the border, isn't intimidation, then I don't know what is. It was a fascist group of the  department directly under the police chief, Her Volf. I could go on and on about Tortolita. We played it by the book, they didn't. The town was destroyed by the powers that be when we had to give up when Bush came to office. We were told that the political climate at the supreme court had shifted in favor of business. Our next stop was supreme court to argue a point of the 14th amendment voter rights and our lack of representation, but it just came down to the old dichotomy of wealthy few who own business against the will of the people. Our town was incorporated by petition signed by 94% of the voters, all alive and checked and double checked! You live in a fascist state or you have just don't get around.

Then there is the reputation of Oracle Road as a speed trap, even published in newspapers, although I haven't heard much since Wolf "retired."  Then there was my neighbor, a Mexican-American who loved this old truck. Very nice home on acres worked hard, made good money. Told me one afternoon that he had been stopped in Oro Valley 42 times! These things happen. This is some of my personal experience briefly, as you requested. It goes on and on when I recall friends and then I could get into the media accounts. 

If you stay out of politics, if you are white and drive a nice looking car, you are not feeling it. There are the facts. I don't want to continue this conversation here. Here we stay away from politics unless it has to do with nudity, and then we tread lightly.
Jbee
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Bob Knows

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2018, 11:34:39 PM »
If you stay out of politics, if you are white and drive a nice looking car, you are not feeling it. There are the facts. I don't want to continue this conversation here. Here we stay away from politics unless it has to do with nudity, and then we tread lightly.
Jbee


I saw a post on FB today being shocked that a woman in Iran was sentenced to years in prison for removing her head scarf.  Oh how offended they were that those police over there would arrest a woman for such behavior. 

Meanwhile over here the religious zealots demanded that baristas cover their bodies while selling coffee, under penalty of arrest and prison. 

And just try to be a man buying coffee without the approved cover.   They rule by fear, violence, and intimidation.   

I was stopped and searched traveling through Tennessee last summer.  Its not just colored people who are harassed.

Bob
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
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BlueTrain

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2018, 01:49:35 PM »
I do not understand the mentality behind a lot of laws but I suspect that it has to do with money. So-called "speed traps" come to mind. It is the same mentality, probably, that results in extra high taxes on hotel and motel rentals because those who rent rooms are naturally out-of-towners. It is certainly true in the States. We have traveled in France, Germany and the U.K. but I don't recall the details of hotel charges to say whether or not that is also the case in those places. But that has nothing to do with nudity, public or otherwise, unless the same charges apply to clubs and resorts, too, which they probably do. Unfair? Not really. It's simply what the cost of a hotel stay is.

Around here, the issue for a while was red light cameras, typically located at busy intersections with frequent gridlock during rush hour. They could be a real money maker but I haven't seen mention of them in the news for a while. Timing of the traffic lights was critical. The theoretical object was to keep people from running red lights, which really happens a lot. You shouldn't have to but you allow for it. It takes a while before that becomes second nature. But it seemed obvious to many people that the real object was to generate revenue. But the kicker was that those cameras were operated by private companies who got more of the money than the county or municipality. In theory they may have been a great idea but the reality was something else and it wasn't funny.

The only funny thing about speed limit enforcement that I can think of is signs that say "Speed checked by aircraft."

The general issue with red light cameras and similar contrivances is that any law can be written so that it can't be obeyed. They can also be written so vaguely as to give law enforcement fairly broad discretionary powers. But, on the other hand, were laws concerning public order (the ones of interest to us in this context) written more specifically, you'd have policemen or zealous and self-appointed guardians of public moralities measuring women's bathing suits with a ruler to see that they were in compliance with statues. And that has happened, believe it or not.

jbeegoode

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2018, 06:17:32 PM »
If you stay out of politics, if you are white and drive a nice looking car, you are not feeling it. There are the facts. I don't want to continue this conversation here. Here we stay away from politics unless it has to do with nudity, and then we tread lightly.
Jbee

And just try to be a man buying coffee without the approved cover.   They rule by fear, violence, and intimidation.   

I was stopped and searched traveling through Tennessee last summer.  Its not just colored people who are harassed.

Bob
Well, you unsavory looking vagabond you! ;D You were traveling, out of state plates, a target. Not breaking any law. Did you not have a shirt on, or less clothing? Was your van dirty from the trip?

It is a carnuding issue that these things can happen. One has to be vigilant with the backup cover.
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eyesup

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2018, 02:27:23 AM »
Quote from: JohnP
Here in Massachusetts we don't pay sales tax on clothing. So does your theory apply here, Bob?
How odd!
Everywhere Iíve ever lived there has been no tax on food purchased at a grocery as food is a necessity.
Prepared food (restaurants, etc), though is taxed.

Does Massachusetts consider clothing a necessity for life?  ;D

Duane

Bob Knows

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2018, 06:08:07 PM »
How odd!  Everywhere Iíve ever lived there has been no tax on food purchased at a grocery as food is a necessity.
Prepared food (restaurants, etc), though is taxed.

Does Massachusetts consider clothing a necessity for life?  ;D

Duane

Taxing necessities is as old as governments.   They arrest and fine people sleeping on the streets, but they tax your home.   Only recently have they ended sales tax on food here, and then Seattle slapped a big tax on beverages and fruit juice.  Its a ballot issue for this fall.

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jbeegoode

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2019, 10:00:37 PM »
I was intrigued by the BN legal guidelines thing, I read the notion that whether nude or clothed, the behavioral boundaries are about the same. If it is offensive clothed, it is offensive without the clothes.

So, I take this to mean for example, you donít touch certain areas, in certain ways, act aroused, you stay discrete. Lewd comments are a maze of intricacies as to who, what, or when they are given. Aggressive offensive comments are not civil. You get to know someone before making sexual discussion. You carefully come on to another person and respect their reactions tactfully.

Do you all think that this simple statement can effectively define the considered boundaries between mere nudity and offensive problematic behavior?
Jbee
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nuduke

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Re: New Brit Clarifictaion of Nudity Law
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2019, 03:11:57 PM »

Unfortunately not.  It will always be clouded by the personal opinions, cultural conditioning and experience driven views of the person judging the degree of problematic behaviour.
We have discussed so many instances of people's bigotry, prurience, false probity, incorrect interpretation of the law and all manner of other mental baggage when reacting to nude people in public (or even glimpsed through a window in the privacy of their own homes).  The CPS/police clarification of nudity law is a huge and welcome benefit to naturists / nudists but we know about it because we are a special interest group (i.e. naturists) but Mr & Mrs Man on the Clapham omnibus are going to react as stupidly and falsely outraged on seeing a naked man on Clapham High Road as their fellow citizens because they all are shackled by centuries of conditioning by religions and Victorian prudity, porn purveyors and all manner of opinion formers that tell them that nudity is bad in all circumstances.
Your reports of textile people you guys meet on your naked walks are in large majority reports of them accepting of your choice and even if their ancient conditioning is telling them it's odd or wrong they are polite and accept you and are not disturbed by your nakedness.  These are the people we want to increase in society and I believe that the overriding factor in resetting peoples' adverse conditioning is the media.  The more we can get positive portrayal of nudity and detach it from sexual connotations the better.  This needs the naturist organisations of the world to do a better job in promoting our propensity.
John