Author Topic: Fear of nudity  (Read 1913 times)

BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 04:27:35 PM »
A problem there is that much nudity available on the internet would make you associate sex and nudity. Presumably that never happened before the internet was created.

Although there seems to be more public nudity than ever these days, though hardly everywhere, there also seems to be a total lack of any real and positive publicity concerning nudity public or otherwise. I don't suppose there ever has been any, aside from the rare appearance of nudist magazines on newsstands (on the uppermost shelves). Those magazines seem to have gone off the deep end in the late 1960s, though, with many being published that were more pornography than legitimate. For a while, they completely disappeared until the Free Beach Movement began and with the publication of the first Clothed With the Sun magazines in tabloid format.

I do recall a comment in one of those old magazines that was an answer to the question as to why they seemed to have so many pictures. The answer was, a picture is worth a thousand words. Still, I think the greatest value at the time was that they publicized in their limited way the existence of the clubs around the country. That's how I happened to get around to making my first visit years ago.

Bob Knows

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 05:11:55 PM »
I found this on Twitter today while reading about the US Congress and President Trump's speech last night.



Having nude photos interspersed within political/social/every day media teaches everyone and especially the  younger generation that nude is a form of NORMAL. 

https://twitter.com/txnakedlady/status/1092988359922929665
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Bob Knows

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 06:45:52 PM »
This picture was on my Facebook feed today.   



Every image of a normal person having a fun day naked teaches a lesson to all the younger generation who "like" the Facebook pages of naturists.  It may be censored but the computer generation understands that's the computer industry, not the naturists having a great time at the beach, who put blobs in front of humans.

Every picture they see of normal humans out in the world naked is a lesson that clothing really isn't required.   We nudists also need to provide real life follow up so the vision of naked humans is not completely restricted to far away.  We need to be naked in public where the public catches sight of us from time to time.  We need to stretch "normal" to include nude. 

There are many places and occasions where we can be seen without being arrested.  We need to have the courage to do it. 
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Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2019, 01:49:32 AM »
"Every image of a normal person having a fun day naked teaches a lesson to all the younger generation who "like" the Facebook pages of naturists.  It may be censored but the computer generation understands that's the computer industry, not the naturists having a great time at the beach, who put blobs in front of humans."

The problem with places like Facebook, Tumblr, etc. that now do censorship (although Twitter is still more tolerant, as you noticed) is that even the younger generation gets the message that Society has serious problems with nudity, whether sexual or not. And further, if one tries to post pictures that may be borderline with how much nudity is shown (although nonsexual) - you can get punished by Facebook (and others) - by temporary or permanent suspension. Everything else you've posted, your friend lists, etc. can be lost. The censorship in the pictures is done by the poster him/herself, and it demonstrates fear on the poster's part. Why run the risk at all?

So the point is that there are risks of revealing publicly (online or otherwise) to having an interest in social nudity, even if you can't quite understand the reasons for that. Young people aren't all necessarily big risk takers. Good jobs for young people aren't easy to find these days. They often have plenty enough to worry about already.

Apart from the kind of negative message that the online censorship of nudity sends to people, there's also the fact that large parts of the history of nudism/naturism have been erased by Tumblr because of what they did. I wrote on a Facebook naturist group the following in regard to Tumblr's action (before they actually did it):

It seems that tumblr’s management is about to utterly destroy, with less than two week’s notice, a repository of images that document the naturist/nudist lifestyle at its best. To me this seems a crime very like arsonists or terrorists totally destroying a major museum of art and history, something that compares with the topical collections of major museums in many countries. What exists there now – but is about to be wiped out forever – is a documentary history of a part of the culture of the past 100 years of which the general public is mostly ignorant. And of which the public will remain profoundly ignorant because of atrocities like this. These vandals are literally wiping out some of the best photographic documentation of modern naturism/nudism in existence anywhere.

BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 11:48:47 AM »
I have not been a believer in keeping information or images in electronic form, on one's own devices and especially on someone else's. I don't know anything about Tumblr or Facebook or those other sites but all that photographic history came from somewhere else. Obviously such a repository would have to be recreated somehow, somewhere. You would think that the AANR would already have such a history. There is an organization called the American Nudist Research Library that supposedly has a large collection of nudist-related material.

Concerning the photos, I don't see anything about those two photos that suggest nudity is normal and I rather doubt a teenager would, either. This is not to say that teens are repelled or disgusted by nudity, though, or see anything wrong with it. Quite the opposite, although some think today's kids are especially "bashful," to use one person's favorite description. This is the generation that sends nude photos of themselves to their friends, after all.

HillwalkerDundee

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 02:34:10 PM »
Just away to get dressed and run off to work.

1. Clothes are required because it is cold and not everyone lives in sunny climes. Age affects the amount of heat required and nothing can be done about that and until recently, central heating was unheard off for the masses.

2. Why is the female nude and the male covered.Sexism rules ok in places.

Bob Knows

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2019, 03:55:26 PM »
2. Why is the female nude and the male covered.Sexism rules ok in places.

The female nude was Twitter.   The male was Facebook.     You have more censorship on Facebook.   Its not sexism.   

Seeing nude imagess as part of a person's everyday experience teaches that nude is a form of normal.   The image shouts louder than words.
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jbeegoode

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2019, 04:39:19 PM »
Naturistplace wrote: "It seems that tumblr’s management is about to utterly destroy, with less than two week’s notice, a repository of images that document the naturist/nudist lifestyle at its best. To me this seems a crime very like arsonists or terrorists totally destroying a major museum of art and history, something that compares with the topical collections of major museums in many countries. What exists there now – but is about to be wiped out forever – is a documentary history of a part of the culture of the past 100 years of which the general public is mostly ignorant. And of which the public will remain profoundly ignorant because of atrocities like this. These vandals are literally wiping out some of the best photographic documentation of modern naturism/nudism in existence anywhere."

Amen to that, brother.

I see it in the context of Nazi book burning and the control of information in "1984."  Throughout history cultures have been systematically wiped out, by ignorant barbarous hoards, or high and mighty powers, dominate cultures. My culture was taken by Roman Christians as they recorded an unwritten tradition and then St. Patric pops in and destroys the "pagan" text. 130 text destroyed personally by him, alone. I spit on him. These were my roots, my heritage. Then, the powers that wiped out Native American culture and language in the last couple of centuries, dominate cultures going so far as to steal children to protect them from their parents. Ripping children from their parents arms!

We have a long tradition written into constitutional law in this country, but with control out of the hands of that law and the melding corporate structure and government we have de-facto fascism, fascism, corporate government and no protectors. Our records, our books, our effects, our culture, are no longer held in the public library, they are captured by profit motivated pigs with agendas and whims. Traditionally there have been revolutions and people like this are taken out and hanged, but here they own the FCC, they are the richest men in the world, with now with international power. They are but a handful with the media consolidation. The handful control our free speech, more and more and more. Our fundamental rights and core protection are disappearing. Break them up like the trusts, or hang them, but never trust them.

I might add that the NSA has all of the worlds internet information that is being censored in their repository in Utah, being held as evidence in case there is any revolution. They have this along with our personal emails and correspondence, also addressed specifically in the Constitution as being nobody's business but our own, as the last government, which was overthrown, kept getting into our stuff. It's all actually protected by government for the wrong reasons. Our own stuff isn't available to us.

This censorship goes a lot further than simply wiping out some nude people pics. The importance of body freedom, is diminished. It is actually a fundamental right.
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 04:51:10 PM by jbeegoode »
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BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 02:56:50 PM »
All I can say is, one shouldn't depend on the internet, not for anything. True, there is a lot of information available, and I do in fact refer to Wikipedia frequently. But nevertheless, one should take anything presented as fact with a grain of salt. Much historical information on Wikipedia, for instance, has gaps. Whoever writes some of those articles tends to go from the beginning and skipping to the recent.

On the other, back when such information was available downloaded and already printed (books, that is), the same thing occurred. There were lots of stories that didn't get told because it didn't happen here and anyway, nobody was interested. Whole books have been written about what happened in a month's time but nothing about what happened there during the next five years. It tends to skew your perception of events.

To a large extent, this is true of the history of nudism. There have in fact been a couple books published about the beginnings of nudism, which was only one part of naturism but not so much about other decades. Perhaps it isn't that interesting, no more than the history of bowling in America. And I've been to bowling alleys more (twice) than I have to nudist clubs (once).

Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2019, 08:15:32 AM »
BlueTrain: "There have in fact been a couple books published about the beginnings of nudism, which was only one part of naturism but not so much about other decades."

There were a small number of books published about nudism in the U. S. and U. K. in the 1930s and later 1920s. Evidently the public was interested in this "new" phenomenon. But it's strange that there's been a lot less published since then. Cec Cinder published in 1998 a fairly comprehensive history of nudism in the U. S. and Western Europe. (Unfortunately, it was self-published and is now almost unobtainable.)  He was quite knowledgeable about the subject, but covered only up to 1970 or so, e. g. the "free beach" movement. There are a few other books that hardly go past 1970. Since then, almost nothing. Brian Hoffman published a history in 2015, but he's mainly a historian, not part of the nudist world, and the book had many gaps and mistakes. Mark Haskell Smith published a journalistic account of naturism in 2015. He actually sampled various forms of naturism and was favorably impressed. The book is very good, but still mainly impressionistic. It's quite possible that publishers these days think there's no market for such books.

This lack of recent studies of nudism/naturism is rather strange, but may be an indication of the degree of indifference or disdain towards nudism/naturism in the past few decades. It's evidently just not taken seriously by the general public and the media that caters to them. Pretty much the same thing is true of information available on the Internet currently. We really need to figure out the reasons for this. It's not a good sign.

Naturism seems to be held in higher regard in England and much of Western Europe, compared to the U. S., although I don't have enough personal knowledge of the situation to say much about it.

Peter S

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2019, 08:36:25 AM »
Quote
This lack of recent studies ... is strange

We risk overinflating our importance here. What’s to study? Some people like to do things naked that most people prefer to do clothed. How much further can that be explored, and having been done once or twice there’s nothing left to study, is there?
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BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2019, 01:00:30 PM »
It could be said that to know where you're going, it might help to know where you came from. Books about nudism tend to fall into two categories, maybe three. One type is the straight forward guidebook, of which I suppose are those written by Lee Baxandall, which have been guides to where to go. There are a few of them, although like all guidebooks, they can become dated and some information can be of questionable value and accuracy. Some of those available on Amazon were published 30 years ago. I suppose some could have been published to promote nudism but mostly they seem to be simple travel guides.

Another variety could be those that are more autobiographical in nature, about one person's experience with nudism. They're probably more interesting to read, although I've not read a single one. There are also novels about nudism and nakedness.

Finally, there are a few that count as histories. One I have and recommend is "Turning to Nature in Germany: Hiking, Nudism, and Conservation, 1900-1940." It's fairly academic compared to others. There have been others, not recently, but I haven't read any.  Any book on something current can be historical, too, especially after the passage of decades. There were a few interesting books published in the 1930s, which may still be in print. They were similar. One was "Nudism Comes to America," another was "Among the Nudists." Those are especially valuable to get a picture, which we hope is accurate, of the state of nudism between the wars. Another interesting book from that period is "Nudism in Modern Life," which is a little dated in places but nevertheless gives a lot of food for thought.

Periodicals tend to create an excellent picture of history that is passing in front of your eyes without you realizing it, much of which is quickly forgotten. In connection to nudism, however, there are few publications but "N" is probably the most relevant. I have seen at a newsstand a nudist magazine published in Canada but half of the articles are in French. I have also seen another magazine that is more focused on travel. It is interesting, too, and somewhat telling, that advertisements for clothing-optional and nudist resorts appear in more or less upscale magazines I've seen in the waiting room at doctor's offices.

Some of the material I've referred to here has really been about the nudist movement, but chiefly as it has been about clubs and organizations. The rest has been about simply being nude, which is a little different.

I don't suppose there will ever be anything that captures all that which happens on forums and message boards, which is really as much a part of (in this case) nudist history as the happenings at a nudist convention in Florida. Even though our friendship here is virtual, if you follow me, everything we do is real. You all know you're part of history, don't you? 

Bob Knows

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2019, 02:31:13 PM »
This lack of recent studies of nudism/naturism is rather strange, but may be an indication of the degree of indifference or disdain towards nudism/naturism in the past few decades. It's evidently just not taken seriously by the general public and the media that caters to them. Pretty much the same thing is true of information available on the Internet currently. We really need to figure out the reasons for this. It's not a good sign.

The lack of published studies may mean that nudity has become common enough that nobody cares about nudists any more. Books, studies, and TV documentaries about nudes are boring.  That may be a good sign that nudity is becoming common enough that people are no more interested than a documentary about longer skirts.  That may mean that most people aren't going to bother complaining about a naked person they see wandering about, and may not even think he's worth talking about.  Could be a good sign. . 

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BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2019, 03:10:15 PM »
I think most people think that nudists are harmless eccentrics, although there is a vocal minority that think they're (we're) all sex offenders or something like that. But my guess is, the same people see nothing wrong with a 14-year old being married. Marriage makes everything okay. Still, in most places, seeing a naked man (and probably only a man) would warrant a call to the police. There are plenty of people who would complain. Not everywhere, of course, but in most places just the same. That's just my opinion.

Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 04:18:41 AM »
pjcomp: "We risk overinflating our importance here. What’s to study? Some people like to do things naked that most people prefer to do clothed. How much further can that be explored, and having been done once or twice there’s nothing left to study, is there?"

"Nothing left to study?" I can't agree with that. It seems to me there's plenty new that's hardly mentioned in popular media. There are sometimes scattered news accounts, but hardly much in-depth reporting or study. And that's a big problem. Example: Traditional yoga has been popular in the U. S. and elsewhere for several decades. But just recently a few yoga studios have started to offer naked yoga classes for anyone who's interested.

It must seem to most people, and the media they pay attention to, that nudism/naturism is a rather old fad that's hasn't changed much since it was new, and is now long past it's prime. Sort of like the 1960's hippie fad, only a lot older. Because of that, there's very little writing or publicity about nudism in any form (e. g. movies, Internet activity, etc.) that's new and relevant at this time. So why should it be surprising that rather few young people actually know much about naturism?

In order for any form of naturism - especially free-range naturism - to receive the attention and participation that's deserved, this needs to change.

People just can see very little reason that naturism might make a net positive change in their lives. As far as they can tell, there doesn't seem to be much new to the story of older nudists and naturists besides the fact that they enjoy being naked. They're just "ordinary" people who don't wear clothes when that's convenient to do. Where will the public see much evidence that being naked in many activities - all outside of one's home or traditional nudist camps and resorts - can make a significant change (usually for the better) in someone's life?

Among other things, people need to learn that modern naturists' lives can have agreeable differences from the lives of non-naturists - in addition to simply being naked more often. Naturists aren't doing only the same things, naked, that they or anyone else might do anyway. Information needs to get out on how much richer various activities and experiences can be when enjoyed naked.

Think about it. Why would a novelist write a novel that involves naturists unless the fact of being a naturist makes a significant change in someone's life? Why would naturists be included in movies, TV programs, news stories, etc. unless the naturism makes the plot or story much more interesting? For sure, there haven't been any award-winning mainstream novels or movies involving naturists - ever. Why is that, except for the fact that traditional nudist/naturist activities wouldn't add much to the story (except sexual titillation for some people)?

The most interesting book on naturism/nudism I've seen in a long time is Mark Haskell Smith's Naked at Lunch. He wasn't a naturist, and still doesn't consider himself a naturist, like many other people who enjoy nudity but don't want to be labeled. However, what he writes in his book is generally positive. Some of what he writes about: a visit to Vera Playa (a clothing optional resort town in Spain), his hiking trip in the Austrian Alps (the "Naked European Walking Tour"), naked "protest" activities like WNBR, and an interview with Karla and Stuart (the Naked Munros couple). These accounts deal with rather interesting things available only to people who like nudity. If enough other writers would pen this kind of book, free-range naturism would start to get more serious attention.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 04:20:50 AM by Naturistplace »