Author Topic: Fear of nudity  (Read 1673 times)

BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2019, 01:02:37 PM »
It's difficult to avoid a label. They can be sticky.

Bob Knows

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2019, 04:49:23 PM »
Among other things, people need to learn that modern naturists' lives can have agreeable differences from the lives of non-naturists - in addition to simply being naked more often. Naturists aren't doing only the same things, naked, that they or anyone else might do anyway. Information needs to get out on how much richer various activities and experiences can be when enjoyed naked.

I'm curious.  What things are naturists doing in our lives that textiles aren't?    Going to the beach?  Going camping at a summer camp?  Going on a cruise ship or to a resort?   Well, some may be involved in "swinger" parties but we don't talk about that, and  lots of textiles do that too.

I've been a naturist for a long while and other than preferring to be naked I'm usually doing the same stuff as my textile friends.  Yes, I enjoy activities more while naked than while clothed, but is that really a significant difference in my life?   
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jbeegoode

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2019, 09:01:12 PM »
NAturistplace wrote: "It must seem to most people, and the media they pay attention to, that nudism/naturism is a rather old fad that's hasn't changed much since it was new, and is now long past it's prime. Sort of like the 1960's hippie fad, only a lot older. Because of that, there's very little writing or publicity about nudism in any form (e. g. movies, Internet activity, etc.) that's new and relevant at this time. So why should it be surprising that rather few young people actually know much about naturism?"

This and much more was in that post that struck me. I am asking myself, just what do textile oriented people have to go on? Certainly lots of sexual connotations. But most don't see what has changed since the days where Peter Seller's detective Clousteaux got stuck nude in one of those "colonies." There was always the humor in the extreme embarrassment and silly measures to maintain coverage...and the titillation of, was it Elke Summers?

The sixties had naked people, hippies, eccentrics doing cool nude things on the screen. Every movie demanded gratuitous nude scenes. But nobody sees those anymore. Nudity was presented to a generation as very cool.

The last time I saw any nude in a mainstream movie, it was in a not very popular movie. An eccentric walked about naked in a small New England town and nobody cared. He was eccentric and tolerated. He was just a character to add flavor to the community of "nice" folks. I don't remember the name of the flix, but it was in the last ten years.

People have internet and pictures of nudists on websites. I try to to portray a wholesome sensuality and benefit and spiritual experiences in my dialog on my site, but how many read it and how many are part of the same choir? Maybe, if I encapsulated many of the experiences in a short piece and then it found a way to get spread about?

 If someone is interested and looks, they will find a changing scene and images, further than the old "colonies." A majority are not looking, I suspect. A majority are okay with places for nudists to go and designated reservations. But, do they understand why people do get naked? They probably need to get past their hangups and preconceived notions and fears before they could understand the positives and enhancements of naturism. How many people are looking into the available information?

We got extra copies of Mark HAskels book to use to soften those that have little understanding of what we do. It does that with humor and opens up the world of naturism to those others. I'd love to have everyone get a free copy.

They need to see things like hundreds of people riding bare ass on bicycles and smiling. That shatters the notions of a few eccentrics, horrors of being seen, and gives us a new notion that lots of people think that being naked is cool and clean and healthy and accepted. It sparks interest and gets people talking.

There are many social niches, like blue grass music get togethers, biker runs, reinactors or any enthusiasm. There is a sense of belonging, a sense of identity, of tribe, of group. Many people just show up for that. It sustains the groups. Social naturist/nudist groups share this. It needs to be a cool thing, or coupled with a cool thing to attract people. A little place where everybody knows your name. Something trendy and youth oriented...hiking, dancing...Got ideas?

Incidentally, what "1960's hippie fad" are you talking about. I don't get it. "Much like" What?
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:18:42 AM by jbeegoode »
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BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2019, 10:38:32 PM »
Interesting that you should bring up these points. There are a couple of similar threads on another forum I contribute to at the moment that is saying the same things in so many words. I think the point of the discussion is a little different, though, even though many of the same things are being mentioned.

One point I tried to make (I may have already said it here) was that people are interested in the clubs as much as they used to. Nudist clubs in this instance but most clubs generally. But I suspect there are as many people interested in being nude as there ever were, maybe more, but it still isn't that many. All of this is guessing, though, and it's relative, too.

Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2019, 09:28:53 AM »
Bob Knows: "I'm curious.  What things are naturists doing in our lives that textiles aren't?"

There's a semantic issue here. I was using "naturist" in the broad sense of a person who's not afraid to be naked around others in non-sexual situations, and enjoys the experience, even if the person doesn't use the label or is even unaware of it. A non-naturist wouldn't be naked around others, except possibly in sexual situations. If anyone has a better term for the kind of person I'm describing, please say what it is. One could say "person who enjoys non-sexual social nudity", but that's a mouthful.

Based on that, body painting might be the clearest example, even though a few people might prefer to wear at least a swimming costume when being painted. I'm also thinking of things like WNBR and (nude) figure modeling (considering it wouldn't really be figure modeling if not done at least partly nude). In various cultures nudity is required in public saunas, so a non-naturist (in the sense above) wouldn't use a public sauna. Japanese onsen are another example where nudity is generally required, although they're usually sex-segregated.

One could quibble, regarding WNBR, that non-naturists also ride bikes (and may also participate in WNBR). But it still exists in the form it does because of the nudity. There are few events anywhere with the same purpose as WNBR but without the nudity. So being a "naturist" provides new options - if you live near somewhere with a WNBR.

There's another category of things that some people would have little or no interest in - except if they were done naked. Naked yoga or naked bowling, perhaps. In cases like that I think that it makes sense to say that "naturism" extends their options. If others don't see it that way - so be it.

Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2019, 10:21:54 AM »
jbeegoode: "The last time I saw any nude in a mainstream movie, it was in a not very popular movie."

I see very few movies, either the traditional sort, or the newer stuff that's only on cable or Internet streaming, so I can't give a good response. Things like "Game of Thrones" have some nudity. And the series "Girls" (with Lena Dunham). But I haven't actually seen those. There are some recent traditional flicks with nudity, like "Blue Is the Warmest Color", but that's sexual nudity. The only two recent flicks with much non-sexual nudity I've seen are "Under the Skin" and "Ex Machina". Those are both science fiction, and quite good (IMO). So it's not clear to me whether (non-sexual) nudity scenes are less common in recent years. Seems like a disturbing trend, if so.

And I've never seen a mainstream flick that treated nudism/naturism seriously. As I mentioned, I think this is because the subject is considered sort of a joke to most people. What's needed, I think, are movies with interesting, nontrivial plots where some characters are nudists/naturists, and that's a significant part of the plot. The movie, of course, should correctly portray social nudity, so that audiences actually learn something, instead of the usual caricatures.

"Incidentally, what "1960's hippie fad" are you talking about. I don't get it."

Hippies were basically a 60s phenomenon (maybe spilling a bit into the 70s). That's all I meant.

Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2019, 10:26:07 AM »
BlueTrain: "Interesting that you should bring up these points. There are a couple of similar threads on another forum I contribute to at the moment that is saying the same things in so many words."

I'd be interested to know where those threads are, if it's OK to identify them.

BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2019, 12:28:04 PM »
The following is the only other forum I regularly visit and make comments on: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nude_sleepers_forum/general-nudity-discussion-f5/

The subject of the forum is supposedly different and I don't think there is any overlap with this forum in membership, to speak of. Even though the forum has a narrow focus, in theory, many things are discussed. It can be mildly interesting, nothing close to this one. I don't think there was a single thread on the topic.

jbeegoode

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2019, 09:46:08 PM »
jbeegoode: "The last time I saw any nude in a mainstream movie, it was in a not very popular movie."

...."Incidentally, what "1960's hippie fad" are you talking about. I don't get it."

Hippies were basically a 60s phenomenon (maybe spilling a bit into the 70s). That's all I meant.

We freaks, didn't die out, the culture is still alive and well. It has evolved, developed, but many of the values of those days are still with the old timers, the new younger ones, and it has all become quite diverse. One difference is that the term "hippie" was an outsiders term, a stereotypical box and considered a slur, but now old timers will use it themselves.

I don't think that it is something to be written off as a "fad." There are core values and attitudes that will endure, are being passed on and taught, by those that took to them in that generation. The cultural facade, the dress, the trappings change, the core of it is still there, although they can be spotted and when they gather, it is evident and items of the dress are still there.

When you get a group together and they casually skinny-dip, smoke pot, take, or accept others taking psychotropic drugs, speak spiritual, generally have an aversion to war, invasive government, love expansive freedom, take actions out of the love of nature, dress a bit, or more, unconventional, there are "hippies" afoot. Where you find freerange naturist others, you will often find them. They are a significant population of supporters of the free range naturist cause and in some cases activists.
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:28:26 PM by jbeegoode »
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BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2019, 01:37:44 PM »
Before there were hippies, there were bohemians. Not the same. Give to wearing black a lot and sporting goatees, hanging around coffee shops and playing drum solos on bongo drums. I was neither. I grew up with neighbors who had a country & western TV show and listening to the Grand Ole Opry on Saturday night. Perhaps these are reasons my responses are so different and sometimes contrary. Of course, this is a forum and not a blog. It's only to be expected.

Bob Knows

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2019, 05:49:13 PM »
Before there were hippies, there were bohemians. Not the same. Give to wearing black a lot and sporting goatees, hanging around coffee shops and playing drum solos on bongo drums. I was neither. I grew up with neighbors who had a country & western TV show and listening to the Grand Ole Opry on Saturday night. Perhaps these are reasons my responses are so different and sometimes contrary. Of course, this is a forum and not a blog. It's only to be expected.

Don't forget the beatniks of the 1950s   a.k.a.   "Beat Generation".     I came of age more with beatniks than hippies. 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 05:50:51 PM by Bob Knows »
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BlueTrain

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2019, 06:46:55 PM »
You're right; I stand corrected. The bohemians were earlier and lived in Paris, if it were possible. Otherwise, you just pretended like you did. There have nearly always been such groups on the fringes of society, generally anti-establishment and usually associated with the arts. All these groups even had their own slang, same as many other groups.

I guess it should be Bohemian.

Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2019, 11:20:14 PM »
It wasn't my intention to denigrate hippies. I was never part of that scene socially, though I sympathized with many of their values - and still do. Good things: folk music, nudity, fondness for nature, environmentalism, antipathy to war and military. But I did not then, and do not now, care for "spirituality" (whatever the heck that is), communal living, pot, other drugs. But that's just me. These are all somewhat independent "values" and don't need to be tightly correlated - although they seem to have been among the 60s and 70s hippies, and understandably are now for the same individuals. In fact, I know there are extensive communities of hippyish people now using online social media such as tumblr (sans nudity). And all age groups are represented there.

I guess my point was that society and culture have moved on, and self-identifying "hippies" are not highly relevant now - though many of their specific values certainly are. I like the term "counterculture" better. The dominant culture in the U. S. (and most countries now and usually in the past) seems pretty unhealthy. Certainly naturists/nudists are "counterculture" with respect to nudity. But other than that, their values are all over the map. I know that there's a definite but small culture of people who still like converted school buses - but far more of the general public who prefer 30-foot RVs. (I don't.)

It would make sense that current "free range naturists" (and I'm definitely one) appreciate a lot of the "hippie" values, but I don't see the overlap as anything close to 100%. Interestingly, some of the "hippie" values mentioned above were also prominent among nudists/naturists of the early 20th century, especially in Europe. 60s hippies had much in common with those nudists. The values then (and to some extent now) also included vegetarianism, physical fitness, and abstinence from tobacco, drugs, and alcohol. Bottom line: over time, particular values don't correlate well with socially defined groups. Popular media tend to emphasize simple labels for people, ignoring the variability.

jbeegoode

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2019, 05:44:35 AM »
Counter culture, non-conformity have always been around. Youth movements from flappers on, tend to have influence on the mass culture. These avante guard segments of society get notice and sometimes produce a wave which washes into the masses in various degrees. A wave can only penetrate the sand as far as the elevation of the beach sands, at the time, or tide driving it. That has been how change has worked, be it civil rights, or bell bottoms and water beds, to environmental concerns. A small group, a sub-culture, upsets the status quo, makes a splash and change washes over the conformists.

We naturists are a subculture, a counter culture, to some extent. I'd like to see it a wave of change. Eventually, like long sideburns, nudity would be less of a big deal for all. But in the meantime, it will wash ashore to varying extents influencing individuals. Like what is cool, fashion influence, a time for seeing the truth of the matter, these give people advantage.

Yes, labels, over simplification, dismissal, diminution are tactics that media will attempt to use and simplify what is not understood. There is always an attempt to box up more complex issues that way, to control change, and to satisfy and pacify the dominate culture. "Hippies" and "nudists colonies" are two examples.

So, we make a bang of ourselves, or find a way to hitch our cart to some bandwagon that is rolling through town. Perhaps anti-fashion fashion with its ripped pants will be a vehicle to change nude attitudes. Perhaps, more and more revealing fashions will reach a tipping point. Perhaps a trend, which will probably be some type of rebellion of youth, will adapt the philosophy of naturism into its identity...For example, bra burning was attached to the movement for women's freedom and breast freedom, with its body acceptance, went mainstream.

A most promising wave would be free range nude hiking, and skinny-dipping as a new cool youthful activity. It could be edgy, athletic, cool? How does it go viral?

I hope that I have made myself clear.
Jbee
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Naturistplace

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Re: Fear of nudity
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2019, 08:20:10 AM »
A most promising wave would be free range nude hiking, and skinny-dipping as a new cool youthful activity. It could be edgy, athletic, cool? How does it go viral?

It's a chicken/egg problem. Things don't go viral until there's a "critical mass". Just a (relatively) few people doing something tend not to spread. This is exactly the same process as nuclear reactions. Without a sufficient amount of uranium in a small space (both temporally and physically), nothing happens. But once a tipping point is reached, you get a chain reaction, and it goes BOOM. We're not aware, probably, of most counter-culture things because they're too isolated to be noticed. But hippies got noticed in the 60s because of things like the anti-war movement, folk music (Dylan, Baez, etc.), Beatles, Woodstock, Haight-Ashbury, tripping - and a large population of young baby boomers just turning 20. See how that works?

I think that naturist/nudists just don't have anywhere close to critical mass right now. They came pretty close in the 60s for some of the same reasons as hippies -  baby boomers, nude beaches, and court decisions in the late 50s that relaxed laws against nudity in books and magazines. The result was the establishment of many new nudist camps and resorts (mostly now gone). That wave sort of crested in the late 80s.

All this means that naturists (of all types) need to make extra efforts on a personal level to rebuild a critical mass. This entails, I think, making a deliberate effort to recruit open-minded friends and relatives to naturism. This is the "grassroots naturism" I'm trying to raise interest in.

A good example of doing this would be naked hiking. Naturist hikers should join groups of non-naturist hikers (Sierra Club, meetups, local groups on Facebook, etc.) and during the hike talking about doing it naked (but not on the same outing). In other topics on this site, I find comments that say most (reasonable) people aren't shocked by the idea of social nudity, though it may not appeal to them. So join those hikes and talk up the idea. Hiking is a good occasion for this sort of thing, because there's plenty of time to talk with others, and those who aren't interested will just politely change the subject.

Skinny-dipping is a slightly different matter. First you need to have a place where it can be done. There are plenty of places in unpopulated areas (swimming holes, small lakes and ponds, rivers, etc.) where non-naturists can be found. But it's a little more awkward to walk up to strangers there and talk about skinny-dipping. People at venues like that aren't part of an organized group, so strangers are less likely to talk with each other. In addition, unlike on a hike, there's the real possibility of getting naked, and that makes non-naturists nervous.

However, if you're with a small group of friends who go together for camping or swimming, you may have a good opportunity to talk up naturism.