Author Topic: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.  (Read 239 times)

Bob Knows

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Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« on: April 05, 2019, 01:34:15 AM »
Dr. Glenn Smith wrote, "We need to manage naturist environments differently, so that the experience of naturism as sometimes erotic is not stigmatised or criminalised, while those who are experiencing social nudity as asexual do not feel exploited, harassed or abused. How we address this dilemma should be the main focus of any discussion.

The idea that naturist environments potentially offer a unique space to explore the breadth of sexual feelings, and to experience these in a more balanced and real way, could make them very attractive to a younger generation. And breathe new life into naturism."


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jun/06/comment.comment
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jbeegoode

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2019, 06:41:27 AM »
Dr. Glenn Smith is an outside researcher doing interviews. He is wholly missing understanding of the topic. He is dreaming that lack of sexuality is the reason numbers are dropping off and the young aren't showing up. Maybe at resorts, but not overall. There is a great deal of sexualizing of the nude human body and so this is very much attitude.

Social nudity has a magic component. When the teasing wraps are gone and a nude body is left, when flaws are no longer secret, but not even seen as flaws, there is more equality, better acceptance, and less sexual stimulation and these things drop off naturally. Thought is one matter and people certainly have many sexual thoughts. Social behavior is very much something else. Social behaviors are rules, mores, taboos. We all use them, and are capable of abiding them. The mores are not a magical component. The natural state of nudity lessens the sexual connotations...naturally.

The places set for naturism have to be somewhat safe feeling for newcomers. The alternative is sexual harassment, pick up venues, voyeurism and exhibitionism, etc. They make rules for people who haven't got it yet. It's business.

As John P. has said a few times, just do what you normally do, only naked. If you are a jerk to the opposite sex, then you are a nude jerk to the opposite sex. You have a choice and can learn the ropes. In a completely nude situation, it is easier.

The guy doesn't get it, yet being academic believes that he can out think his way through this and come up as a leader, which has it all figured out for us. His result is just more social rules and expectations. His pointing out denial of sexuality in naturist resorts is a shadow punch.
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John P

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 05:05:28 PM »
Bob has brought that article over from another board that we're both on. Someone posted it there even though it's from 2007! It's anaturistfamily.com , but you can't just casually go there and read stuff; you have to be a member. As internet forums go, it's reasonably sane.

I responded to the thread there, with a version of what JBG says I like to say--"Naturists are just like anyone else except we like to be naked". But what I was saying there was "How come people keep throwing questions about sex at us, when naturism is such a tiny corner of the world?" We like to be naked, and that's all we're saying--as I said in some other thread here, we can be naturist prudes if we want. Yet for some people, they think they can bring their sexual concerns to us and they'll be welcomed, and if we don't cooperate, we're "against sex".

As for the 2007 article, someone on anaturistfamily said "I believe the author is having issues with his own desires". Yes to that.

jbeegoode

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2019, 06:02:29 PM »
Very succinct, John P. ;)
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2019, 12:36:41 AM »
When the clubs were beginning to be established in the U.S. and somewhat earlier in Europe, the idea that adults could mingle together without clothing was, well, too much for most people and the clubs had to tiptoe around the law to be allowed to exist. I understand that some states don't even allow nudist clubs. So the clubs had to operate under very conservative conditions, as well as suffering all the jokes about nudist "colonies." When the late 1960s arrived, there were, apparently, those who were looking for a more liberated atmosphere. A few clubs became swinger clubs and what I read about Cap d'Agde is not encouraging. But other clubs are apparently doing just fine. I realize that folks here don't care for the idea of clubs in the first place but if they are doing anything to encourage membership, I haven't heard about it. Would you drive 250 miles on a weekend (that's what it would be for me, there and back) to sit around the pool and socialize at a club? Yet that's pretty much what people have been doing ever since before WWII, give or take a hundred miles. Of course, they don't just sit around the pool.

jbeegoode

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2019, 01:13:57 AM »
“There is a level of eroticism that can be found in everything by a percentage of people. So why not naturism? But naturism itself is not erotic. Is being nude in front of a doctor erotic? Is being nude in a sports changing room? Maybe for a small minority but not for most people…
…Many people wear clothes to purposely eroticise others but we don’t read article after article about how clothes are inherently sexy and so we should stop wearing them.”

This was on that other site. I stopped in out of curiosity. I thought them good arguments or nice common sense.

Jbee
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jbeegoode

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2019, 04:52:18 AM »
I downloaded the paper. FYI, he was a naturist for eight years before he got the money to do this study. He wants to promote sexual well-being and have law attuned to that. The sample was very small and limited to the general demographics that you might find among naturist. It can't speak for human behavior at all, but it speaks for 35 naturists. Some of his sample were swingers and they are all from the same island somewhere in the north Atlantic off the coast of France.... :)

I looked up one of his historical sources about swimming history. It looked fun and interesting, but not having a copy in hand didn't tell me how thorough the inside info was. I might read it some day, put it on my list. There's something about pagan sex rituals in saunas in there somewhere. :-[
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2019, 12:20:39 PM »
Oh, you must mean Jersey. The original nudists a hundred years ago were definitely not about sex. They were all about health and sunshine and physical fitness and getting out of the crowded, noisy, polluted cities. It was also recreation oriented, in the sense of "recreate." Naked but not exactly body freedom they way we might think of it. Fairly liberal and unconventional, too, to be sure, but conventionally conservative in other ways. For a German nudist organization to admit Jews, for example, would have been exceptional.

jbeegoode

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2019, 06:26:35 PM »
He is talking Germany as being a place for some sexuality. They moved and danced and got into compromising positions and got affectionate. Some got sexy. Then, when it got to the British Isles the locals didn't move about so much. He made them sound pretty tight.

We would be wise to not paint generalities with a wide brush stroke.

I haven't read his sources, yet.
Jbee
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nuduke

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Re: Guardian article on about sexuality while naked.
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2019, 05:41:04 PM »

To support JBee's argument; As I have said before about my personal approach to nudity and sexuality - I can associate or dissociate myself from the sexual and erotic side at will when naked (or clothed for that matter).  For instance, last night at the Naturist Swim I found myself sitting next to a shapely and attractive woman in the steam room with about 4 other men including her husband.  We chatted.  I found her attractive and in other circumstances might have been delighted to make her intimate acquaintance.  This thought opened the door crossed my mind and promptly left through the mental exit of its own accord.  I didn't have an uncontrollable urge to ravish her.  My male parts remained calm and relaxed and thoughts of eroticism were not part of our interaction.  This is entirely in line with my reactions in any textile social context.  I think I am entirely typical of naturists in that.  The only naturists that are going around sexualising everything are those that would also do so in the textile world and there are probably many textiles that go around sexualising everything except we don't notice them if they are clothed! 
Non sexual naturism shouldn't be a thing I feel and I think, like Jbee, naturism/nudism is simply living life without clothes.  So sex comes into it sometimes and sometimes not as does every other human emotion and state.  You might just as well have organisations promoting being non sexually clothed....i.e. clothed!  In a movie theatre, where everyone is clothed there are some people having sexual and erotic thoughts and indeed the film may in some cases promote this.  Nobody thinks anything of this at all.   In Cap d'Agde when people are shopping naked in the supermarket they are no more erotically charged than shopping in a Walmart in Detroit.  And, come to think of it, I've been briefly sexually 'stirred' by beautiful people shopping in the aisles of my local supermarket but that has nothing to do with whether I or the object of my occasional lust are clothed or not.  People in nudist clubs are no more sexual than anyone else in a club for something else e.g. Bridge, Ballroom Dancing or Railway Modelling.  I think I might join up A Naturist Family just to see what's there.


As to young people not engaging so much in social nudity, I think that's because times have changed and purposes have changed.  In the less technological world of the early and mid 20th century, it was an object in itself to get away from it all and engage in nude recreation i.e. a short or long stay at a CO resort. The world is smaller nowadays and peoples horizons are wider.  Young people's recreation is to fly off and have a good time in exciting places.  Semi-incarceration in sleepy, relaxed CO clubs are tame fare for the up to 40 year old today.   Also as I have also remarked before perhaps simply being naked is secondary to what you are doing whilst naked.  So I might well have gone on a barge clothed and enjoyed fish & chips just for that experience.  The primary purpose of the naturist Barge Fish & Chip outing was not principally and primarily about nudity.  It was something nice to do whilst practicing normal naturist nudity.   The fact that all the party were naturists was because an individual naturist can't do a barging fish & chip outing with textiles and be naked in that context - so the naturists get together so they won't be compromised into having to be clothed whilst doing the fun activity.
That less people are joining naturist clubs is the same reason as seaside holidays are on the wain.  It has just gone out of fashion.  But naked bike rides are on the up and up - they are in fashion.  I suppose there is a new type of naturist here - one that wouldn't bother with sitting doing nothing in a CO club but would happily (and desire to) get naked for an event such as a bike ride or a Spencer Tunic photo shoot, or a nude charity marathon or whatnot.  These are entirely congruent with things that are growing in textile versions too e.g. marathons.
John




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