People who've given up washing

[Greenbare Woods]

The water that doesn't seem to rinse off is soft water. I despise soft water conditioners. I can't get the soap off.  Left on soap makes me itch. Soap feels like slime on a hot day. It stuffs up my pores. I feel it in my scalp. The stuff that won't come off scrapes off some into the towel and permeates the towel with those soaps and still it can be felt on my body. I've never felt anything like it in a natural stream. I don't think that it is very unhealthy to leave soap and all the rest on the body and the results are apparent when I've been subjected to soft water.
Jbee

Seattle used to have very "soft" water.  Meaning water without dissolved minerals.  Seattle water comes from a large area on the west side of the Cascade mts where it rains 100 inches per year.  The water was so pure, "soft" that they had to add some minerals because it was dissolving their iron pipes.  It also felt different than washing in hard water.  There may be other places that also have very soft water.

[Greenbare Woods]

I know it's widely reckoned that the winter germs spread mostly via things like door handles - sneeze with hand over mouth, open door, next person picks up germs, etc - so hand washing can undoubtedly lessen the spread. But as someone whose work took me into possibly four or five different homes a day, I recommend wide exposure to bugs as the best way to build up immunity. In all that time I rarely got more than a short sniffle in any bug season thanks - I believe - to multiple low-level exposures. Since retirement I find the bugs can be a bit more invasive.

Agree completely Peter. Over washing reduces our natural immune system response and makes us MORE susceptible to viruses.  The often advertised "Flu Vaccination" also causes more flu than it prevents for the same reason. 

[Greenbare Woods]

I have had many lovers. I have had my nose in a variety of places as a result. Without going into detail, I have realized that even girls have bodily stuff going on.

I have always loved female bodies. They are very biological.  YUM.

If your home is temperature controlled and you don't exercise, you may avoid much of this. What you eat may have effect. But I'll stick to a towel on my butt, just in case. I tend to keep the same furnishings for decades and will continue to do that, protecting them with a nice soft terry towel.

I use the same furniture for years also.  When I was quite young my grandmother had little white cloths on the tops of her chairs that were called an antimacassar, An antimacassar is a small cloth placed over the backs or arms of chairs, or the head or cushions of a sofa, to prevent soiling of the permanent fabric underneath.  Supposedly men used creams on their hair which soiled chairs. I never use those either.  If I come in all sweaty from mowing the lawn or something I will throw a towel over my chair, but day to day around the house its not needed.  Of course our bodies produce natural oils, skin cells, etc., but the oils evaporate from chairs and the other brushes off.  My every day TV chair is close to 10 years old and still appears like new.  They sell fabric cleaners for chairs if it ever becomes a problem, but It's just more myth than problem.

Younger women have leakage underneath part of the month but we no longer send them away as apparently was once done in some places. Of course her bleeding will take more concern with chairs and such, but men don't have that problem. 

Bob

[eyesup]

. . it's starting to be apparent that not all bacteria are harmful, and some of them may actually be partners with us. It wasn't so very long ago that people didn't have daily baths . . did that hurt us?

Hurt, no. Change, yes.

I doubt the modern hygiene market flowered because of some health issue inherent to human physiology. Cramming thousands of people into larger and larger cities probably produced health problems due to overcrowding. Infestations of insects, vermin and bacteria that flourished in such a rich biological environment were likely the motivation that made such a market necessary.

But a one size fits all solution seemed to be the answer. Rural communities didn’t have the same biological load of people that cities did.

There is a parallel discussion about naturism and laundry here on the forum, look for the link “A Short History of Bathing”. And another discussion of body cleanliness on this website here, about bacteria and dirt. Select the link “Let Them Eat Dirt”, shown there.

With so much here about cleaning and cleanliness should we worry about becoming obsessed over stubborn stains. Out, out damned spot!

Duane

[eyesup]

. . . and why the ones that don't, stink.

Stink ? ? ?  Stink is subjective and relative.

Which raises the subject of a relative, a distant cousin;
Ron D. Cart, a bit of a rural philosopher, who once famously said,

“I stink, therefore I am!”

Duane

[BlueTrain]

Body aroma, shall we say, of course is both relative and subjective, but there is no way it can be defined out of existence. One does get used to it, which is not to say one comes to prefer it.

The difficult thing here is to put one's self in someone else's shoes, especially when they lived in a different era. Large, even very large cities existed in the past (and which are mostly still there). Various degrees of success was achieved in different places in coping with the problems of urban living. Nowhere have they really solved them but at least they managed. There are more problems than you might imagine, too. Think of the problems when draft animals were the principal means of transport and that was the case up until about a hundred years ago and to a lesser extent for another thirty years. The chief means of dealing with that problem was a man with a broom, a shovel and a large bin on wheels. The original street sweeper. One of my neighbors when I was little did that for a living and another neighbor kept horses. He even plowed our garden. But there are no men sweeping the streets, no horses and no vegetable gardens now.

Animals and humans shared living spaces in some places, mostly in the North, and in Europe in the distant past. Having spent time in barns and stables, it isn't as bad as it sounds but it does make for more housekeeping chores. I couldn't say if having a cow at one end of your house with you at the other end is any worse, health-wise, than having dogs with a run of the house. But I knew several people who had dogs that were not allowed indoors. They weren't exactly pets.

The hygiene market isn't just modern. It's been around for a few thousand years, with its ups and downs. Hardly everyone was able to avail themselves of everything that was available but the desire certainly allowed a flourishing trade in hygiene products. Things like hair spray are of more recent origin. Taking an ordinary bath has been customary for just as long, although it was something only a few could do. I understand in some places, it became a social occasion. However, when you have to carry the water and heat it all by yourself, I can assure you that bathing will become a once-a-week or less event.

[jbeegoode]

If your home is temperature controlled and you don't exercise, you may avoid much of this. What you eat may have effect. But I'll stick to a towel on my butt, just in case. I tend to keep the same furnishings for decades and will continue to do that, protecting them with a nice soft terry towel.

I use the same furniture for years also.  When I was quite young my grandmother had little white cloths on the tops of her chairs that were called an antimacassar, An antimacassar is a small cloth placed over the backs or arms of chairs, or the head or cushions of a sofa, to prevent soiling of the permanent fabric underneath.  Supposedly men used creams on their hair which soiled chairs. I never use those either.  If I come in all sweaty from mowing the lawn or something I will throw a towel over my chair, but day to day around the house its not needed.  Of course our bodies produce natural oils, skin cells, etc., but the oils evaporate from chairs and the other brushes off.  My every day TV chair is close to 10 years old and still appears like new.  They sell fabric cleaners for chairs if it ever becomes a problem, but It's just more myth than problem.
 
Bob

Doilies were common among my Kansan relatives when I was younger. Some of the modern furnishings that I have bought provided a doily-like attachment that were of the same fabric as the rest if the chair. They protected wear on chair arms, the first thing to go. These were designed with clothed people in mind, of course and elbows are not the areas of a body that may sweat, oil up, or secrete "stuff."

Oils don't evaporate completely. They are oils. They can permeate the fabric and not come out. The thickness, the texture, the tuft of the fabric vary and permeability will of course vary. It's kind of like the way different carpets accumulate stuff. The cleaning is only superficial. When you dig down a bit deeper, you may find a layer of still dirty carpet,, but the top looks good. So, it depends.

I had a pillow on my couch. The fabric was picked out at a fabric store and two were made. I used one and it now is a completely different color. One had a body on it for long periods during a scorching summer's heat. Again, it depends on use.
Jbee

I'm not so sure that Bluetrain's remarks are on topic, but I'll bite anyway. It is interesting stuff. I was shocked when I visited Pompeii. There was a deep track (deep enough to fall into) that was for standardized cart's wheels throughout the town. All refuse and defecation was thrown in there. The stench, I can only image. I thought of street cleaners, but the depth suggests that in was meant to fill up for a while. In Europe the pee buckets were thrown out of the windows in towns and cities. The King Of France built Versailles partly to escape the stench in the summer in Paris. Which brings us to perfume, a contrivance to bury the smells of those expensive gowns. The clothing cost a bundle, and couldn't be effectively washed. A body hung out in there. Solution was to use a perfume that would hide the smell. The French perfumes, like Joy for example, are harsh. Essential oils and Indian scents are like incense, an augmentation to the environment.

Here we are back to the condition of a body being cooped up in clothing. A body needs to breathe. A body isn't designed to be in clothing. It tolerates it. It is designed to tolerate quite a lot of conditions. The other night, I was on Mt. Lemmon sleeping in a mummy bag, with thermal underwear and a t-shirt. I stayed warm. I woke up feeling so icky. My body hat and all else was trapped in there. The release into the fresh air was remarkable, quite a pleasure. It was as though my body was cleansed by the air as I stripped. It made me appreciate my down camping quilt. I made me appreciate being naked all day in the mountains.
Jbee (again)

[BlueTrain]

My comments tend to wander around and touch on too many subject. I'm not writing a term paper.

One point I try to make is that people will try to live as well as they possibly can. Convenience (the mod cons) are high on their wish lists. It hasn't been that long in some places, within living memory as we say, that some people lived little different than they did in pre-Civil War years. They burned wood for heat. Their water came out of the ground within a short walking distance from the house, either from a spring or a well. The well might be located in the house or just outside. Light was from an oil lamp. There was an outhouse. It wasn't so bad and people in the city had only been using more modern conveniences for a few decades longer. But no one hung onto the old ways when something better was available. It's ironic that I never knew anyone when I was little who actually had a working fireplace, although having a wood burning stove was not at all uncommon. But where I live, a real fireplace is a regular suburban fixture.

I also never knew anyone who owned a sleeping bag when I was little and they had been around for a few decades by the time I was born. When it was cold, we slept under cotton quilts that weighed a ton. Not only was that good enough for us, it was all we had. Wool blankets were for those who were better off than we were. I used sleeping bags (that is, a sleeping bag) in the army. I was stationed in cold places, hot places too. Never woke up feeling icky.

[jbeegoode]

Try sleeping in a synthetic rip-stop, or a plastic bag.

I grew up on military bags. They are different.
Jbee

[ric]

the water main came up our lane in the mid sixties, when i wasabout 10 yearsold. before that we used well water and collected rain water from the roofs. we had a tin bath on the kitchen floor with water heated on the stove. apart from the once a week bath night, we washed in cold water.   face washed before bed , hands washed before meals if dirty or after no 2s.   toilet was a drum emptied once a week and a bucket for pee if it inconvenient to trot outside and water the garden.   i still dont come into the house just to pee in the toilet,  even on occasions go out in the garden to pee rather than flush it away with 2 gallons of potable (allegedly) water.
weve even gone back to drinking pure unadulterated well water rather than the chlorinated mains water.

[BlueTrain]

What you're doing is primitive, not natural. But it's probably better than natural, assuming the well water really is pure mostly.

Use the word 'natural' with great care but it's still just a word.

[Greenbare Woods]

Here we are back to the condition of a body being cooped up in clothing. A body needs to breathe. A body isn't designed to be in clothing. It tolerates it. It is designed to tolerate quite a lot of conditions.
Jbee (again)

Being uncovered and our body secretions allowed to evaporate from natural ventilation is a large part of staying healthy in my observation. 

i still dont come into the house just to pee in the toilet,  even on occasions go out in the garden to pee rather than flush it away with 2 gallons of potable (allegedly) water.  weve even gone back to drinking pure unadulterated well water rather than the chlorinated mains water.

Agreed Ric.  When I pee on my lawn it turns darker green in that place because the grass feels more loved.  Recycling my body waste back to green plants is my way of giving myself back to the earth.   As the saying goes, "The grass is always greener above the drain field." 

We live 10 miles past the end of city water so all we get is well water.  The city has their own wells too, but they add chlorine or something. 

[jbeegoode]

I have been using three sources of water. They all have too many salts. One leaves a white ring on things. One smells like a chlorine swimming pool out of the tap, one is less so. I don't drink any of them. I buy purified, osmosis and a coupe of processes water to drink. I brush, clean and sometimes cook with the other water, but is isn't so good inside the body. I can just sense it. It isn't the stuff that I grew up with.

The quality of the water and the chemicals natural and contrived are some of why I do sauna. I know that I am better purified from the unnatural environment. Cleansing like that brings about natural balance. I experience the difference. It is apparent.
Jbee

[jbeegoode]

Speaking of military sleeping bags. Those old tents and denim covered metal canteens, all had that particular smell about them. New, or old. What was that? Mold? Materials?
Jbee

[BlueTrain]

Probably it is the material that gives military things (cloth, canvas and the like) that peculiar odor, although that's probably not true of more recent items that aren't made of cotton materials. I think they're all impregnated with a water-resistant, mold-resistant treatment. It may even be the dye. New non-military cotton clothing sometimes has a certain odor, too, which comes from chemicals used in the manufacture of the cloth. But it comes out in the wash. Military gear on the civilian market probably hasn't been washed for quite a while, if at all.

Regarding water, JB, I thought you lived in the desert where any water is scarce, never mind good water.

However, Colin Fletcher, the man who wrote about hiking (include nude), also wrote a book, "The man from the cave," about his investigation and conclusion regarding evidence of someone having lived in a shallow cave not too far from Las Vegas sometime before WWI. In his inquiries, someone mentioned that it used to be wetter there several decades ago. The question arose because whoever had lived in the cave had made a bed of grass, something that was gone when Fletcher discovered the cave. So, it seems that local climate conditions can vary a lot, if temporarily. There wasn't any good water to be had around there when Fletcher was passing through, by the way.