Author Topic: The Secret Naturist Handbook  (Read 27426 times)

jbeegoode

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #420 on: November 15, 2020, 08:53:44 PM »
Getting seen nude and then a complaint can be a serious legal problem in Arizona and most states. Most of the world.

Would rather have it different, but then even where it is legal, I don't hear about free range nudity in urban social places being practiced. Would your mind keep you from less populated places, or the inherent hassles, of ignorant folks? Would you go walking or jogging in town or your neighborhood? Would you leave home without any coverings? Would you attempt to avoid children and their parents reactions? Would you garden in your front yard?
OR, would you recon the neighborhood, ask the local bartender or shopkeeper, if they mind nudity first? Do you behave on the less outward manners, so as to not rock the boat and get a public and possible legal backlash, not only for your own sake, but the slow incremental social change in your area of the world being jeopardized? Do you really feel completely liberated, or would you mitigate something? Do you recon, or just go balls out the door?
Jbee

I have places where I can roam free, but other places where I look over my shoulder, recon first, minimize, preferably eliminate risks, chance, odds as best that i can. All in all, it increases my free range, my comfort and risks. I'd prefer to just not have to be concerned, but I have to live in a real world. Be it the road blocks of my mind, or reality, there are more obstacles in some instances than other instances. A bigger free range requires the CRAFT of secrecy sometimes.
Jbee
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ric

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #421 on: November 16, 2020, 09:34:21 AM »
I feel no compulsion to be naked 24/7.   So I don't have to be a secret naturist where I feel it's not appropriate , whatever my perceived reasons,.   Im just free-range whenever and wherever I decide to be and untill I decide it's time to stop.
I just don't get naked where I've got to be secret , I may be discrete , but there's a subtle difference, in my mind anyway.   I guess secret is a necessity , discrete is choice.
For example if I leave the vehicle at the roadside to go for a walk in the woods  I'll maybe wear a flimsy wrap till out of sight of the road....I don't have to wear shirt and trousers to hide my intentions,. If I encounter someone whilst naked I don't try to done clothing before they see me , I'll decide whether to done my flimsy wrap before passing close or not.

 The light bulb moment when I personally mentally binned the secret label was a major change.  I talked to a few of my gardening clients which resulted in more time naked gardening ...not just when they were away...not worrying if one of the neighbours or the postman etc would catch a glimpse.  Similar change in mindset when out in the woods not worrying about encounters , just a choice of ways to deal with them if it happened.....naked time is more relaxed and more of it.

Bob Knows

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #422 on: November 16, 2020, 04:24:02 PM »
Getting seen nude and then a complaint can be a serious legal problem in Arizona and most states. Most of the world.

On a /reddit forum for free range nudism where I'm an admin, one reader asked about suggestions meeting his new neighbors from Africa.  The African neighbors went naked.  Apparently their culture was mostly naked back in Africa.  I don't know what part of Africa but I have read that there is an advocacy for returning to traditional tribal nudity where it's too hot for clothes to be comfortable.  Laws against nudity in much of the world come from European Christian colonialism or from Islamic control.  "Putting clothes on the natives" has always been part of monotheist religious dogma, and part of establishing control over colonial empires. 


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Would rather have it different, but then even where it is legal, I don't hear about free range nudity in urban social places being practiced. Would your mind keep you from less populated places, or the inherent hassles, of ignorant folks? Would you go walking or jogging in town or your neighborhood?

Actually I've been doing that for more than 60 years, but mostly at night.  You are right that even where its legal nudity is uncommon.  However, I read a story last summer about some guy who was wandering naked around down town Spokane, WA, USA, for some hours before he was eventually arrested, and then only because he was confronting and harassing other people. 

My own recent nude bicycling in the Cheney Wetlands Trail is a park in my nearest town.  I'm often seen naked.

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Would you leave home without any coverings?

I do that all the time since my home is out of town, but I do carry covering when I'm driving naked into town. 


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Would you attempt to avoid children and their parents reactions?

That I do.  Some adults get freaked out about their children.  A couple of years ago one of my neighbors came to my door to complain that his teen daughter had seen me naked getting my mail.  However, if I'm out naked on a trail and a family with children passes the other way its luck of the draw.  I didn't stop getting my mail naked just because some children may be out for a walk on the public road. 


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Would you garden in your front yard?

Yes. I deliberately go naked near the public road and intend to be seen by passing traffic.

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OR, would you recon the neighborhood, ask the local bartender or shopkeeper, if they mind nudity first?

Wouldn't do that.  It would result in random answers depending on the random person you asked.

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Do you behave on the less outward manners, so as to not rock the boat and get a public and possible legal backlash, not only for your own sake, but the slow incremental social change in your area of the world being jeopardized? Do you really feel completely liberated, or would you mitigate something? Do you recon, or just go balls out the door?Jbee

I am convinced that incremental social change will only happen if many people are willing to be seen naked.  Social "science" has long held "That which is unseen soon become unseeable."   Meaning anything that most people don't witness rapidly becomes taboo, something to fear.  When people have not experience seeing naked people it is assumed to be taboo.  The opposite is also true.  If most people occasionally see naked people they stop being afraid of naked people and the taboo goes away.   

Another social theory says that any troop of monkeys will change their behavior when 100 monkeys take up the new way of acting.  Its sometimes called the "100th Monkey" theory.  When one monkey finds a better way he gets ignored by the troop.  Eventually a second monkey sees the better way and does it to.  Very slowly more and more monkeys notice and adopt the better way.  Eventually there are "100 monkeys" doing the better way and the whole group shifts social consciousness to the new and better way.  Whether or not there ever were troops of monkeys that followed this behavior the metaphor for human behavior is worth understanding.  If one person does it, going out naked, he will be criticized and ignored.  If two people do it, same result.  If 100 people start wandering around naked, gardening naked, being seen naked, the rest of the culture will accept it and adopt it as normal. 

I do look up local laws before going "balls out" in public.  Most of the US does allow simple nudity, but some places like Arkansas have laws prohibiting nudity even in your own home, and have outlawed even talking about nudism.  Neighboring Kansas, in contrast, has no laws against nudity anywhere. In Oregon and California there are laws against nudity in some cities, and Lane County, OR, but not in most of those states.  In Vermont you are prohibited from "disrobing" but not being naked. You can't be seen while taking off your clothes. I check local laws

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I have places where I can roam free, but other places where I look over my shoulder, recon first, minimize, preferably eliminate risks, chance, odds as best that i can. All in all, it increases my free range, my comfort and risks. I'd prefer to just not have to be concerned, but I have to live in a real world. Be it the road blocks of my mind, or reality, there are more obstacles in some instances than other instances. A bigger free range requires the CRAFT of secrecy sometimes.
Jbee

I understand your concern, Jbee, getting arrested would be very bad.   Being seen naked, however, rarely results in arrest unless you are deliberately confronting other people.  To change the culture and to change the law a lot of nudists need to be seen naked.  It takes 100 monkeys. 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 04:29:46 PM by Bob Knows »
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jbeegoode

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #423 on: November 16, 2020, 10:18:06 PM »
FYI, there are some local ordinances in towns in Kansas making for illegal nudity.

I have been conscious of the general trend's paths in social change since I became non-comformist as a teenager. It seems that there is a "radical" fringe, which becomes bigger and gets heard of.  For example say a way of dress becomes fashion for a few in a smaller group. Then, it gets seen by the majority. The majority adopts the new costume, mainstream fashion designers take up, or steal certain ideas, it becomes a trend. Some conform a bit, some adopt the whole ideal that the dress may represent. Like sideburns coming and going.

The 100th monkey principle that I heard of was a phenomenon. A monkey, I think in Japan, began using a stone tool. Then more in its group began to do it. Curiously, after a 100 threshold, unrelated monkey populations thousands of miles away began the same behavior. Wouldn't that be a kick? How do we get enough naturist human monkeys?

There is persuasion with word and intellect, or with peer pressure, or with seeing a behavior as common and conforming to perceived norms. So, I figure that there is a place for all of that and like a shotgun blast, the change will come from the effect of getting hit by the one pellet that most suits the person, or a bit of several strategies.

With that in mind, then the discussed author's/webhost strategy of taking out visuals of nudity from his website will get the intellectual argument out there, because it is more palpable to masses who knee jerk, freak, at the sight of a nude body. Next time they see a body, perhaps they will be more accepting. Incremental indoctrination.

I'm looking to see other nudists pushing their boundaries and getting more out there, to be seen and heard. Also, to make available simple nudity as something with naturist connotations and context, instead of the sexual context that it gets most often.

The more naturist sites with nudes on the net, the more common as you say, Bob.

One out front nudist/naturist in a group will infect the rest. One prude will also infect, but the intellectual argument can't hold up to the truth and example of safety, humanity, and common sense that naturism can present. Also, wearing clothes isn't as fun, as interesting, as exciting, or avante guard.  we just have to keep informing the truth to the youth, seed by seed.
Jbee
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jmf

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #424 on: November 17, 2020, 10:05:03 AM »
Here, in the south of France, there are two associations of naturist hikers which are not affiliated to the French federation of naturism but to the French hiking federation. It is a way to make recognize our specificity by the other hikers and the authorities who manage this sport.
I like hiking, running, kayaking, biking, sailing, geocaching...naked of course!

jbeegoode

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #425 on: November 17, 2020, 11:19:15 PM »
JMF, that sounds like a wonderful approach. A sort of special interest group or SIG. I might try locally that when life settles down. The wisdom of other hikers can be gathered and then the spreading and legitimization of the nude hiking concept among a more mainstream organization.

What is the French legality of nude hiking? How do they get around that with events as an organization? The Hiking Federation is sanctioning illegal activities?
Jbee
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ric

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #426 on: November 18, 2020, 09:03:23 AM »
I've not checked and don't go to france, but would expect the legalities to be similar to Spain  , they're both governed by european union laws.

jmf

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #427 on: November 18, 2020, 11:09:50 AM »
There is no legality of naturist trekking...no illegality really either. In case of problem everything can depend on the attitude of the police or the justice. But the fact that official authorities of the hike have accepted to welcome associations of naturist hikers is a positive point. The departmental committee of this federation is very encouraging and really supports us and we are active in the various meetings or training courses that it organizes. Moreover in the association which is located in the department of the Drτme (and which I preside from now on), the gendarmerie is in the mailing list which announces the outings. And this has been going on for eight years now without any reaction from them.

I like hiking, running, kayaking, biking, sailing, geocaching...naked of course!

John P

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #428 on: November 21, 2020, 01:34:44 AM »
The European Union doesn't have general laws about personal conduct, only about trade issues. There is a European Court of Human Rights which is a Supreme Court of a kind; Steve Gough took his case about public nudity there, but they didn't support him.

Unfortunately French law about nudity is ambiguous. It's article 222-32, and it just says "Sexual exhibition in a public place is penalised with imprisonment of up to one year and a fine of up to 15,000 EUR." In the past, the courts have sometimes held that simple nudity amounts to "sexual exhibition" and sometimes they haven't. A lot of the time, French naturists act just as JMF says, and they don't run into trouble, but I don't think they can ever be fully confident. Article 222-32 is certainly mentioned a lot on French websites. Maybe JMF would like to disagree with what I've said, but that's my understanding of the situation.

Here's what Germans say about French law (in English):
https://natury.de/index.php/uk/nudity-and-law/france

jmf

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #429 on: November 21, 2020, 09:32:19 AM »
Thank you John, that's a good summary of the situation in France. I would add that hiking naked in a group, and especially in a group constituted in association, allows a better perception by the people eventually met. But I must say that if I sometimes hike in a group, I also do it alone.
I like hiking, running, kayaking, biking, sailing, geocaching...naked of course!

jbeegoode

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #430 on: November 25, 2020, 08:52:18 PM »
Route Markings: From "The Secret Naturist Handbook"

One of the problems encountered when planning a route through areas without easily recognised way points such as woodland and particularly conifer forests, is finding your way around and also finding the interesting spots you located during your reconnaissance patrol. An easy way to solve this problem is to employ a system of discrete markers along the trail.

The easiest method of doing this is to use different coloured electrical insulating tape, which is readily available at DIY stores and ironmongers. There are about 6 useful colours and combining more than one colour in an individual market should give more than enough different markers for all eventualities. Use an old credit card to carry your selection of colours.

The key to using these markers is simplicity and keeping to a standard system for all locations. For example, if you use blue to mark the direction of a good water feature, perhaps for skinny dipping, at one location, you should use the same at all other water features at other locations.

My standard colour system is as follows:
•   Blue - water features such as ponds, rivers, streams, waterfalls, etc. Useful for cleaning up and also for sources of good drinking water.
•   Green - a through route that will take me through the forest while still staying hidden. Also used for safe hiding places.
•   Yellow - used to denote minor hazards such as barbed wire fences, stinging nettles, scary monsters, roads, open areas, etc.
•   Red - areas of high risk e.g. where the likelihood of encountering people is high or where a major hazard will be encountered e.g. a bull or alien big cat lair.
•   White - used to mark the nearby location of hidden clothing. Note: should not be used at exact location, only nearby to make approx. area.
•   Green/yellow - spare colour available for use.

What you might want to use this marking system is up to the individual secret naturist and the list is endless but here are a few common examples:

Hidden pathways through thick woodland, location of good hiding places, your operations point, drinking water sources, any hidden hazard, any water feature, hidden caves or tunnels, antiquities such as stone circles or cairns, sunny clearings in woodland for sunbathing, where your route changes direction and so on.

Care should be taken when placing markers so as not to make them too conspicuous to passers-by. Where you place them is up to you but do place them where you will know where to look, for example, at low level on a branch or fence post and not where someone passing by can easily pull them off or remove them. It is important that you stick to the same method of marking - its easier to find them later.

At night the type of marker mentioned above is not really practical as they do not show up well at night, even in torch-light. One easy way round this is to use reflective markers in addition to your coloured ones. You can buy self adhesive reflective tape but it is rather expensive and does not stick well to all surfaces.

A readily available alternative source is the plastic reflective sleeve found on road cones which can be cut up into small patches and held in place with a small map pin. Please do not remove cones from road works as this could cause an accident. Just look along roadside verges for discarded ones. You should have no trouble finding some. These reflective markers are useful at night for marking locations where clothing is hidden for later collection. A quick flash with even a small torch will illuminate them easily.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 04:51:47 AM by jbeegoode »
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jbeegoode

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #431 on: November 25, 2020, 09:06:59 PM »
I've never used tape. It can be a good idea.

It has saved me much hassle using the markers of other people. It keeps people to the main trail, where multiples of misleading side trails have been made by other lost hikers.

I have had them removed and missed turns to find myself out of my way.

We have made cairns. A place, particularly in a forest, often looks very different coming as opposed to going. I usually just mark the important stuff in my mind. When there is little trail, too much remembering can be like mental clutter.

Significant things, like a big rock, a bend, the unusual, are good places to stash around. Somebody doesn't like the look of a trashy piece of color tape and they can strip you effectively with just the removal of the piece of tape.

It can mark a shortcut.

It can make for people following me. When I don't want a special place made public, markings won't do. Remembering will.
Jbee
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jmf

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #432 on: November 25, 2020, 10:12:02 PM »
This seems to me to date from another time, when you could leave plastic traces anywhere. It seems to me that we must respect nature and leave only the minimum of traces. I am also a marker for the French hiking federation and we mark with paint on trees and rocks, but only on previously studied and circumscribed routes.
I like hiking, running, kayaking, biking, sailing, geocaching...naked of course!

Bob Knows

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #433 on: November 26, 2020, 02:04:27 AM »
I have always been careful not to litter the area with tape or flags, and not to deface rocks with paint.  These days, with ubiquitous GPS systems in our hands, there is little need for trail markers anyway.   In the old days we would mark the trail with a pile of 3 rocks, obviously not natural, but still part of nature.  Anything more than that is defacing the land, in my opinion.  The exception would be a nice looking government installed sign with arrows and distances at trail divisions. 
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Safebare

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Re: The Secret Naturist Handbook
« Reply #434 on: November 26, 2020, 08:17:24 PM »
Certainly a little creativity can replace plastic litter and paint. It really depends on expected durability of the marker. A small pile of stones or a haphazard placement of a branch can be useful. Maybe charcoal instead of paint?
I mostly rely on memory and geographical directions. But I've not taken to extended hikes since my Forest Service days.
~Safebare
PS: Happy Holiday everyone, 2020 has been an eventful ride, but there is still plenty to be thankful for. Including the comraderie of my free range family.