Interesting article in British paper

[John P]

It's in the Grauniad, as the Brits say, but it's about two resorts in Florida which have very different styles. I've met Rich Pasco, by the way (apparently the name is Cornish). Pasco County was named after a remote relative of his, but that isn't why he lives there.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/nov/25/nudism-naturism-florida-pasco-county

[jbeegoode]

Swingers can be nudists. Not all nudists are swingers,most are not. So, why don't they just drop the nudists label, if Caliente is a swingers project? This article usurps naturism, because it implies a half and half to the nude population, a lie. How about a nudist forward slash swinger resort? How about calling themselves swinger/nudist? 

What is natural about those places confounds me, "nature-ist" requires nature. Doesn't it?
Jbee

[Natureboy1776]

I read that article a few days ago. I was annoyed by the contempt expressed by the author.
We visited that area this summer. We stayed at Cypress Cove. It was relaxing but felt like a timewarp back to the late seventies. My wife was not happy there. Lake Como looked worse in their promotional material. I wonder if my wife would like the more modern amenities of Caliente, and if we could ignore the swingers.

[jbeegoode]

Mira Vista is smaller, but in a lovely setting. It is upscale, too. You can even spend the night in the room favored by Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn. Perhaps it's the compromise. That's in the Tucson Mountain foothills and amongst all of the Tucson tourist stuff including hiking and scenery.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Young people in general have a higher level of sexual desire and spend more of their time meeting and hooking up with partners.  They aren't "swingers," just normal young people enjoying life.  Use of the term "swinger" is derogatory prejudice.

[jbeegoode]

The term swinger is a wife/partner swapping thing. Lord knows that I was participant in the sexual revolution and a general slut when I was younger, exploratory and hadn't yet settled down to stable relationships. People at resorts are generally older, partnered and don't need the hassle of singles behavior.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Jbee wrote, "People at resorts are generally older, partnered and don't need the hassle of singles behavior."

We see frequent articles about "How can we recruit more young people into nudism?"   And then when some young people show up the old dogs drive them off.  In order to welcome young people into nudism, AANR needs to accept or even welcome youthful behavior.  Driving them off isn't going to work.

[nuduke]

In order to welcome young people into nudism, AANR needs to accept or even welcome youthful behavior.  Driving them off isn't going to work.

Quite so, Bob.
Applies to BN and many nudist clubs in the UK too.
Also their attitude to single men and particularly older single men is akin to racism.  For these organisations Single Man=sexually predatory perv that will overrun the club and frighten off the women is the default attitude of the clubs I have come across.  Fact of life - naturism is much more practiced by men and even more by older men.  Women are the minority.  The organisations should embrace that rather than imagining a utopia where every member is one of a stable sexless married couple and that members only come in pairs!
John

[Davie]

BN does not discriminate against single men. I agree that some clubs do. My own club emphatically does not.

BN hosts numerous events and you find single men common amongst attendees. There has, it is true to say, been some positive discrimination by BN to encourage families and young naturists to attend. This event has been for the young and families so us oldies are not invited and i'm fine with that. The prime example is the NKD festival. The Blackpool event is split into two venues, one for us oldies, including single men and the other for YBN, the younger set.

Davie 

[jbeegoode]

Yup, quite so Bob.

Even the the anarchist Rainbow gatherings divide the alcoholic party's from the spiritual and the rest as a matter of different behavior norms. Different tribes for different folks. Rowdy behaviors from mellow.

Youth and elders (as they are called) mix, with many common interests and needs. The elders are fewer. I think because they don't pack into the woods a mile or more, like they used to. They are treated with respect and gratitude because of their longer experience and wisdom, often. But, again, there are fewer.
Jbee

[John P]

I've often suggested men-only nudism to take the pressure off women--and no, I'm not gay. I just think we guys need to take some responsibility for entertaining each other, as long as we're the ones who mostly want to participate. I'll trust the next guy to be a decent person that I'd like to meet, if he'll trust me the same way!

Yes, I do practice what I preach. I think my contributions to the trip report section prove that.

[Greenbare Woods]

I've often suggested men-only nudism to take the pressure off women--and no, I'm not gay. I just think we guys need to take some responsibility for entertaining each other, as long as we're the ones who mostly want to participate. I'll trust the next guy to be a decent person that I'd like to meet, if he'll trust me the same way!
Yes, I do practice what I preach. I think my contributions to the trip report section prove that.

It would be good to have men's activities, but the gay infiltration has caused many men to be warey of men only activities.  All the big men's clubs of a century ago have fallen on hard times.  Even the Catholic priesthood has big problems with gay infiltration.  Gay men and straight men don't mix very well socially. There may only be 5% gay men in the whole population, but the percent is higher at nudist venues.  Many straight men do not want the extra hassle of being involved with gays.  The gay movement has put a big damper on any men's activities, and especially men's nudist activities.  Perhaps straight men only and separate gay men only nudist events could happen, but then we would be saying that nudity is about sex.  I don't see much of a workable plan very soon in a PC dominated world.

[jbeegoode]

I dunno. I get along with gay people just fine. More often, it is they that seem a bit reluctant, or standoffish, or prejudiced, or seem to expect to be out of place.

It's not about sex, it is about activities together.

Frankly, I prefer hanging out with women, or mixed group, more than the guys. Seems that a group of guys gets together and it is either sports, BEER or lets get together with women. Many men get competitive, or a domination thing can happen. It can be difficult to get a group of "bros" together.

The old Greek gymnasium thing seemed to work out though...well, there were some sexual things going on in some of that, too.

It works out in the woods.

Once it becomes all guys, it is a different dynamic when the lone woman tries to fit in.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Once it becomes all guys, it is a different dynamic when the lone woman tries to fit in.
Jbee

There is a psychological group dynamic that happens when any one kind of person becomes 2/3 or more of a group.  The dominant kind become the focus and the conversation.  The needs, interests, and opinions of the minority cease being heard.  That works for women's groups with a lone or few men, as much as men's groups with a lone or few women.  It also works for other kinds of groups like political groups.  One clothed person trying to fit into a group of naked nudists would also get ignored.

[jbeegoode]

A lone woman walking into a group of guys, in my experience, can get all of the attention and even change the subject. Especially if she is considered attractive, personable or sexy. Also if are the guys in certain moods, or positions like being pair bonded, single, horny, or lonely, will she dominate.

I haven't seen this info that you present published, but it makes perfect sense, if exceptions are accounted for. Like taller, or more aggressive, or louder personalities are present. Factors such as familiarity and common bonds, common communication traits, previous social dynamic being introduced to a new group member or members, affect the direction of group conversation and outcome.

The kid that owns the ball, or the chick that controls the ball are often the directors of the group's path.

Group behavior is fascinating. There is lots of evidence that nudity in a group does break down and change existing dynamics, in a positive way. It is more evident if the players are coming from our dominate society into the nude grouping, or they have had lots of experience with nudity. Stuff that most of us picked up from experience, not reading the books.
Jbee