Author Topic: FRN During Lockdowns  (Read 10518 times)

BlueTrain

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2020, 08:44:59 PM »
So, how's your foot?

jbeegoode

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4449
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2020, 09:08:48 PM »
It is sensationalism and misdirected, as you say, Bob. The skate rink in Italy and the grocery store in France to store bodies are not. People are getting very sick and dying in alarming numbers. That's not fake.

The hydroxychloroquine appears to be working on people with mild symptoms and not the seriously ill, from what I read. The deaths have to do with lung issues and predisposed immune issues, which is obvious, respirators are needed and the symptoms are lung issues. The diabetes, and pre-diabtes, just doesn't make sense with that. They are not directly related and they say the guy stated "ALL." That makes your source, to me, suspicious.

I'd like to know that your source is good. That would be very important good news. What is the source? Could it be that Smith just wants to draw attention to himself? Is it just drug companies looking for profit, when Wall Street is tanking and the Fed is bankrupting the value of a dollar? Would those two entities allow this to happen? Is it the banksters crafting and getting off on another profit and pilfer like 2008? Is it really the Chinese out to destabilize world markets and dominate, by weakening their biggest trading partner?

Could it be that a news media person, or team is misinterpreting what the guy said? They are notorious for that. A study comes out with a link from catsup to cancer in a small study of rats as suggestive AND THEN the headlines call out that "Catsup causes cancer!" Fake news or sh..ty reporting? Just selling papers?

Even if the stuff worked, it isn't out there yet for everybody and we'd have to produce quite a lot, before getting back to work. That could take weeks to months to produce. The game has changed, but not for the best. As the rehab people used to love to say, denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Jbee

 
Barefoot all over, all over.

jbeegoode

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4449
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2020, 09:37:05 PM »
Bob, "Thousands of patients are being saved by hydrocortisone.  Many doctors report 100% cure with only mild symptoms.  No hospital.  No deaths."

The people who had a positive reaction were not very sick. They were not in the hospital, and not likely to die. They were not saved by it. There were positive results. Nobody got off of their death bed, with an injection, or IV. So, what you wrote here is true, but misleading. It hasn't been working for serious cases, and it is anecdotal.

They were not in the hospitals dying with complications. The stuff gets people who have predisposed, or lack of health and they die of that, yes. It is often more a combo thing. Old and frail, lung issues, immune system glitches, it is the hammer in the coffin. I don't know about the stats that you present, but people are dying from it at alarming rates. 16% hospitalized is very high. My friend has been sick off and on, she walked slow shifting much like you, but she wasn't hospitalized, or dead. This stuff just put her over the edge. The old and sick in the herd get left behind, but we're getting hit by thousands of lions all at once, not just the usual pack. We get back to being around each other, most of us will get sick and the thousands of lions will have a big feast.

There is research into hydroxychloroquine potential. It may provide clues, or something that works very well. But for now, the results are being misinterpreted.
Jbee
Barefoot all over, all over.

Davie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2020, 12:22:04 AM »
No wonder the USA has the highest infection rate in the world with some of the attitudes being displayed here. This virus is serious, what part of that don't you understand. We need to treat it seriously. The health system would love a cure and there are trials here going on but nothing is yet proven. I'll believe science rather that false news and rubbish.

When children and young people are suffering it really is bad news. I say again my doctor friend treats is seriously and therefore so should I. In the UK the daily press conferences are fronted by scientists and quite frankly I'd rather believe them and amatures who think they know better. Sure the virus kills those with underlyig health issues, but it kills the formerly fit and well too, including now several of our wonderful NHS staff. That's the wonderful National Health Service

Davie  8)

ric

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2020, 11:20:26 AM »
couple of days ago the media and the politicians and scientists at the daily downing street briefing  were getting all excited at the upturn in the motor vehicle use graph... all condemning the general public for irresponsible use of private cars and breaking self isolation.    nobody pointed out the graph was all motor vehicles including commercials,  or that it was the end of the month, when people get paid so they can go back to the supermarkets to restock, or that the supermarkets are well aware this happens so would be stocking in preparation..... .   

Greenbare Woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
  • Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
    • View Profile
    • Greenbare Photos
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2020, 02:57:12 PM »
I'd like to know that your source is good. That would be very important good news. What is the source? Could it be that Smith just wants to draw attention to himself?   Jbee

These days, Jbee, people do need to be suspicious of all the Fake News.   But the **Smith Center for Infectious Diseases in New Jersey** is the real deal.  I was suspicious at first too, but I did some research.  It been there for years and is a very reliable source about infectious diseases.  More reliable than political motivated government agencies.   

https://www.smithcenternj.org/   

Quote
The people who had a positive reaction were not very sick. They were not in the hospital, and not likely to die. They were not saved by it. There were positive results. Nobody got off of their death bed, with an injection, or IV.

Yes, people have gotten up off their death bead after IV with hydroxychloroquine.   There was a widely reported news story about a guy in Florida who had said goodbye to his family after doctors told him he had no hope.  Then another doctor started the Hydroxychloroquine IV and in a few hours he was up and celebrating his recovery. 

From the NY Post and numerous other news sources, "March 22: "A Florida man diagnosed with coronavirus claims he was saved from certain death by an anti-malaria drug touted as a possible treatment by President Trump."   "After more than a week, doctors told him there was nothing more they could do and, on Friday evening, Giardinieri said goodbye to his wife and three children. I was at the point where I was barely able to speak and breathing was very challenging, Giardinieri said. I really thought my end was there.

First link on my search: https://nypost.com/2020/03/22/florida-man-with-coronavirus-says-drug-touted-by-trump-saved-his-life/

Quote
They were not in the hospitals dying with complications. The stuff gets people who have predisposed, or lack of health and they die of that, yes. It is often more a combo thing. Old and frail, lung issues, immune system glitches, it is the hammer in the coffin. I don't know about the stats that you present, but people are dying from it at alarming rates. 16% hospitalized is very high 

I'm sorry about your friend.  The standard medical training for viruses says "there is nothing we can do."  Many people with underlying medical problems have died of it, but your friend may not have died if the doctors had given her hydroxychloroquine.  This is a real game changer.   And many doctors who treat with the hydroxychloroquine do report 100% recovery.  That doesn't save someone who is otherwise dying of cancer or heart failure, etc.  More than 12,000 people per day die in the USA, but they do not have to die from Covid-19. 
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 03:16:33 PM by Bob Knows »
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
To see more of Bob you can view his personal photo page
http://www.photos.bradkemp.com/greenbare.html

John P

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
    • View Profile
    • My naturist page
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2020, 05:46:00 PM »
Davie, I think you're absolutely right. Maybe it's the pioneer mentality, where people think they're the ones who have to fight off the bears, so they're not going to accept instructions from any "expert" on how to do it the right way. Or if they take any advice at all, they won't trust it unless it comes from some source they choose themselves, the more unorthodox the better.

Hence fad diets, lunatic religions, vaccination-will-make-your-children-autistic, conspiracies everywhere.

jbeegoode

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4449
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2020, 10:24:15 PM »
Yea, Bob, Let's hope.

The good news is that they are testing it...or planning to test it. ;)
Jbee
Barefoot all over, all over.

Karla

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 123
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2020, 09:48:30 AM »
We've been expecting a pandemic for quite a few years now and actually have been regularly stockpiling since 2009. Not just for a pandemic though. I recognised that as society becomes more efficient it also reduces redundancy and therefore makes it less robust to extreme events until you live in a just-in-time society with no spare capacity. The chances of any extreme event happening is quite low on a monthly basis, but when seen over the course of a lifetime the chances of at least one of them happening is actually very high. I am not just talking about pandemics (influenza was the most likely form it would be take) but extreme weather from climate change, currency collapse (we narrowly avoided this in the UK in 2008), political instability (e.g. Brexit and the rise of fascism), fuel shortages (happened in the noughties and '70s) etc. It doesn't have to be an extreme event that last months, but weeks or even just days and you benefit from being prepared. Not to mention that the long term trend is the exponential depletion of the Earth's finite resources.

Sometimes we've had to run down the stockpile when we move. We started building it up again anyway in preparation for Brexit and then Covid19 made an appearance and we accelerated it. It meant that we could avoid the shops when everyone else was panic buying. You can't panic buy a stock pile as you will forget so many things. You need to regularly use it to know how quickly each item depletes. It also requires developing other skills, like figuring out recipes that can use the stockpile and how to maintain variety. We also grow a lot of our own fruit and veg and have been using up as much space as we can to do this. But this is only the second season in this house and it takes a while to prepare the grounds. I took last week off work to do lots of gardening. I've done it before in a previous house using absolutely every since spare space to grow stuff and it's amazing how much produce you can get if you're prepared to put the work in.

I have a garden sunbed in the sunniest part of the back garden to do my sunbathing so I can get my vitamin D . I go out in a bikini because I can be seen from the back windows of the neighbours but I am contemplating doing it naked anyway. I can't block the view of the neighbours though without blocking the sun. It would be amazing if I could do the gardening naked though. Proper free range naturism is out the question at the moment though due to the lockdown.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 09:58:14 AM by Karla »

ric

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2020, 10:13:13 AM »
were rural and ive always stockpiled to a limited extent through the winter.... on the odd occasions we get snow im happy to be able to stay off the roads for a week or so if need be.... probably only a once in 20 year event.   we grow a lot so always have veg and fruit in the freezer, weve ditched the chest freezer and now use 2 tall uprights... run out of space in late autumn but now in early spring could probably turn one off till the beans are ready... but having just had easter weekend the supermarkets have legs of lamb and cuts of beef at good prices so may stock up a few roasts.  lamb legs in particular is half the price it was a couple of months ago.
not being able to go walking and with the neighbours of work at home during the working week they may well get to see more than normal if this cold wind ever stops.

BlueTrain

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2020, 11:42:21 AM »
When I was little in the 1950s, some people maintained large gardens. As the years went by, though, they became smaller and smaller, possibly because the people got older and older. Of course, not everyone has the space for a garden and a small vegetable garden just isn't worth the trouble. We're a little spoiled now, though, in that many vegetables are available year-round, which didn't use to be the case. I also think that the quality of some items is much better than back then.

I've mentioned this before but emergencies of one sort or another usually happen often enough, if not regularly, so that you probably already know what you really need to be prepared for. It varies from place to place, naturally, but they're generally all weather related. Hurricanes, tornados, heavy snows and windstorms, floods, fallen trees, power outages and the like. Those things are fairly localized and never affect everyone equally, meaning you really won't all be in the same boat. Some people build on high ground, some have generators and so on. The current coronavirus is unusual in that it seems to be worldwide in scope. But things that are more personal can be more serious. Things like job loss and long-term illness can be much more difficult to recover from.

I don't worry about the collapse of civilization. I suppose it could happen; it just never has. There are other serious things that only government can really do anything about but the current US administration is not disposed to do anything like that or, for that matter, anything at all. These are also things that have happened before, too, although at the moment, all I can think of is long term drought. Nobody thinks in terms of lean years and fat years, I guess.

Greenbare Woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
  • Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
    • View Profile
    • Greenbare Photos
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2020, 06:13:54 PM »
Shoes can carry coronavirus.    Wash your shoes.    (Or don't wear shoes and wash your feet)

https://footwearnews.com/2020/focus/news/shoes-can-carry-coronavirus-cdc-1202965214/

Chloroquine is safe and effective prophylactic to stop the spread of coronavirus, and treatment for the disease.  From National Institute of Health, 2005.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/?fbclid=IwAR0MdIBDRrD0_QeFSl_jOEntEnrz-Ntf8lNyjwbd0ER4ByovQJlbKUlG6ds
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
To see more of Bob you can view his personal photo page
http://www.photos.bradkemp.com/greenbare.html

Davie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2020, 12:20:16 AM »
Of course is can be carried on shoes, as well as clothes and most other surfaces.

As for Chloroquine  Not proven as a treatment or preventative. Neither has it been subject of peer review. Treat any claims with caution. There is only anecdotal reports it has some benefits. It may eventually be proven to be effective but the evidence is lacking at present. If it was effective it would be in universal use now but it isn't. See:

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/doctor-note-chloroquine-drugs-treat-coronavirus-200326055608185.html

https://fullfact.org/online/chloroquine-coronavirus/

https://www.businessinsider.com/malaria-pill-chloroquine-tested-as-coronavirus-treatment-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

The link above relates to SARs a difernt virus and was published in 2005, hardly up to date research!

Davie

ric

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2020, 10:16:25 AM »
personally i think all this hand washing and disinfecting is a waste of time.... to maintain a reasonable quality of life ive got to go to supermarket once a week... soon as i go through the door im breathing in what someone else has breathed out , 2m distance wont stop anything and nor will a rock and boulder mask.
my assumption is were all going to be infected sooner or later,   the government admits this , all their measures are aimed at slowing the new infections to a rate the nhs can deal with,  not reducing the total over time.

my focus is on healthy lifestyle to reduce symptoms,   build the immune system by well tried methods,   sunshine for vit d,   fresh wholesome food, lucky ive got a poly tunnel were eating fresh salad leaves and upped the supermarket fruit intake,   early to bed for plenty of sleep,  im taking a vit b complex supplement,   and weve tuned off the wifi, use the phones on speaker so theyre not held close to the head...ok were getting a bit less mainstream now.
but every litle helps and its all easy to do.

the mega dose vit b is supposed to boost imune system but also reputed to help cracked heals and migraines both of which i get, only been on it a few weeks but heels arnt getting worse and not had a maigraine since i started... but early days.

BlueTrain

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
Re: FRN During Lockdowns
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2020, 12:51:03 PM »
All my assumptions are otherwise.