Public nudity

[Greenbare Woods]

I'm starting a new topic intended to be the opposite of our long running "Secret Naturism Handbook" topic.  I have never believed that naked human bodies have to be secret, or that public exposure of naturists is a negative.  In the UK, Stephen Peter Gough was widely criticized by all the people who wanted nudism kept secret, but over time his efforts were a driving force behind the BN's support of public nudity and a big change in UK police policy on public nudity.

I've been going nude on public lands for half a century, and gave up trying to be secret about it almost that long ago.  Humans are the most beautiful species.  We have no reason to hide ourselves from each other.  All humans, of every age and sex are beautiful people.  Nobody of any age or sex has ever been hurt by passively observing another member of their own species.  Observing naked humans is educational and therefore beneficial for children.  Observing naked humans is interesting and pleasing to adults.  As a species we are VERY social, and spend huge amounts of our time and money observing other humans both clothed and naked.  Our massive entertainment industries and porn industry exist to satisfy common human desires to observe others like us.  Millions of people, men, women, and even children post their naked "selfie" images on-line in "porn" or social media sites.  Despite residual pay-for-play nudist groups who try to prevent nudity from becoming common in public, the world is ready for and desires to have public nudity become common.   

I'm doing my part to oppose systematic censorship and misanthropy against any people.  I'm getting old and may not live long enough to see general public nudity become common, but I don't hide myself except in the middle of town.  OUR FREE RANGE nudism is the opposite of secret nudism or high fences hidden nudism.  Lets have a topic discussion of nudism in public places, on public lands, on public trails, on public streets, etc. Share your nude in pubic pictures.   Starting off this is a picture of my bicycle ride on a public trail.  I passed 4 clothed people on the trail.  They had an opportunity to encounter and passively observe an uncovered human.  Its all good. 

May your life be filled with opportunity to see and be seen without clothing.  Free Range nudism on public lands topic.  You're welcome. 

[Greenbare Woods]

In case any other readers here also is on Twitter, you may be interested in Male Public Nudity on Twitter.  Whomever posts these Twits is promoting public nudity by men.  I support his efforts completely.  https://twitter.com/MalePublic?s=20

[Greenbare Woods]

No sport can't legitimately be called "Olympics" unless the athletes compete naked.  Neither can sport be called "gymnastics" unless the athletes compete naked. 

People want to SEE the athletes, and they are all hidden under obtrusive fabric.

[jbeegoode]

A world wandering freely nude without the hoopla. That's how we felt in Zipolite, no sense of anything amiss.

That walk in the Wilderness of Rocks quickly lost any inhibitions, as we became more conditioned by the experience of bumping into person after person after person. It is liberating, not in a sense of being without, but as a norm.

I think that this thread will give balance to practical considerations.
Jbee

[nuduke]

Good subject for a topic, Bob.
I'm not going to be posting any pictures of me naked in public places because, as you know, I'm not anything like as bold as you or Jbee and keep myself out of the public gaze when out and about naked which is rather rarer these days.  However, I suspect this thread will be populated by reports of public nudity in the media and I hope, on balance, positive ones in these days.  I do feel, in terms of the way the media portray naturists that there is emerging a slightly more favourable/tolerant/understanding attitude to the choices that people make in life, naturism being one of them.  Unfortunately it's not got past the 'Oo-er what a lark' sort of journalism, but it is nevertheless more affirmingly accepting of our proclivity as one amongst many choices that people make.


I think (or hope) that things like the black lives matter stuff is making quite a lot of people re-evaluate their attitude to all sorts of societal interrelationship issues and how we regard and treat each other, with respect to our mutual differences.  In a professional association I help run, we have been involved in the last couple of years in increasing diversity and opportunity in and for the membership and it really makes you think hard about your unconscious, inherent biases with respect to other people and predispositions created by all manner of subtle influences and forces throughout your life. What is also hard is making changes to eliminate some of those biases.  Sometimes you are not aware that you have a particular type of bias and many of them are pretty subtle.  Sometimes when you try to do the positive and right thing it turns out to be interpreted by the people you are trying to reach out to as not to be quite that. 


What I mean by that can be given by the example of this forum.  As far as I can tell at the moment this forum, excellent though it is for those that participate, is exclusively a society of white males, middle aged to elderly and mostly heterosexual and married.  Now, we don't think that's how we are defined but this can be very inhibitory to other types of people joining us, even though we don't have any problem with them joining and indeed would welcome them and benefit from a plurality of opinion.  It's not our fault or intention to be exclusive but somehow it is interpreted by outsiders as being inhibitory to their joining in and to diversifying the forum membership.  That is upsetting to us that others think we are somehow 'wrong' for them.  But it seems to be a fact in lots of other cases too. And it's really hard to do something about it as it involves active steps by us.
As I say, I think progress is in progress but it's slow and not always an obvious direction.
John

[jbeegoode]

We pretty much stick to the topic of free range naturism here. After time, I've gotten to know about the demographic of the participants. A newbie may not see it the a same as white, or older guys, nor care. It can be irrelevant who is sharing the naturist experiences, the wisdom, the understanding and camaraderie of those found here.

We come from many backgrounds, economic, cultural, political and across oceans and continents. There is diversity and accommodating here, and it is honest. It is like going to a nudist resort and everyone is naked, so nobody really knows what the other would be trying to project or adhere to on the outside.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Good subject for a topic, Bob.
What I mean by that can be given by the example of this forum.  As far as I can tell at the moment this forum, excellent though it is for those that participate, is exclusively a society of white males, middle aged to elderly and mostly heterosexual and married. 
John

As Jbee says we are diverse in geography and political opinions.  I have seen news stores about Africans trying to reclaim their traditional undress that was banned by Christian colonial governments a couple of centuries ago.  Clothes are even more stupid in the tropics.  But that is their culture, not ours.  It would be welcomed here, but none of the regulars know enough to talk about it.  We have enough to discuss about reclaiming freedom in "western" or European/American/Australian culture. 

[nuduke]

We pretty much stick to the topic of free range naturism here. After time, I've gotten to know about the demographic of the participants. A newbie may not see it the a same as white, or older guys, nor care. It can be irrelevant who is sharing the naturist experiences, the wisdom, the understanding and camaraderie of those found here.

We come from many backgrounds, economic, cultural, political and across oceans and continents. There is diversity and accommodating here, and it is honest. It is like going to a nudist resort and everyone is naked, so nobody really knows what the other would be trying to project or adhere to on the outside.
Jbee

I certainly wouldn't argue with any of that and perhaps, as you say, it's time to close this conversation as it strays from our naturist theme somewhat. 
I apologise for introducing bias for the purpose of making the point.  I gave the example of limitations to indicate arguments which are key to those that wish to promote diversity across the board whether gender, ethnicity, ability, workplace or across the economic divides, in order perhaps to make us think about why we here share certain similarities and consider why we do not have a broader spectrum of people as members engaging in our world.  It's neither our fault nor a shortcoming nor something to be criticised.  But as in everything, the reason why things are as they are is massively improved by an explanation.
Indeed, we are a much more diverse group than perhaps I indicated when making my point previously.  But I still ask why over nearly 2 decades of existence as a forum group that has changed and evolved in membership and location, do we not attract even more diversity, for instance women and younger people.  If as you assert, Jbee, that some may not perceive the aspects which I highlighted and not see them as an inhibition to joining in, then where are they and why don't we experience more of them joining us?   Is it that naturists in general are not a diverse cross section of humanity?  Is it that those that like discussing naturism are vanishingly few?  Could it be an artefact e.g. that forums are more appealing to white men over 60 than women or youths?  I don't think we have the answer and we have discussed it on several previous occasions, so I'm inclined to leave it there - as Bob says, we have enough to discuss within our current cultural range.
....unless anyone has any alternative explanations to offer 
John

[jbeegoode]

Lots of ignorance with nothing to substantiate it.

I'd think that it would be useful to know who visits and then, doesn't stay, or just lurks without participation. We may have more diversity than we know, maybe not. It may be that like attracts like. It may be that certain types would be more boisterous to throw out two cents to the discussions here and there.

I know DF likes what goes on, but she doesn't even keep up with her emails, let alone this fun and she types notes all day and rarely uses a keyboard outside of that, as it is more than enough.

Would we say that most pop in and then get distracted someplace else and a smaller number stick around and eventually feel at home? Could it be that the higher levels of experience of the participants may leave little for a more novice to contribute, of even intimidate opinion?

I wish I knew.

Jbee

[jbeegoode]

Bob, I'd like to read what ever you found about Africans wanting to claim more traditional lack of dress. Do you have any links to the info?

I like the naked part but with the possibility of any Pict-like cultural ancestry, I have no desire to dress in woad.

My Native American ancestry is generally telling me that the tradition is to sweat with genitals covered "out of respect" by spiritual elders. I don't believe that at all. I think that the Christian oppression brought on that inhibition and that nude sweat was simply forgotten as the tradition. It just don't make sense.  Casual nudity was no big deal for most peoples. Not saying that there haven't been people hung up on clothing like now.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Bob, I'd like to read what ever you found about Africans wanting to claim more traditional lack of dress. Do you have any links to the info?

It was a while ago and I didn't save a link.  Sorry.

I like the naked part but with the possibility of any Pict-like cultural ancestry, I have no desire to dress in woad.

Woad stinks like crazy while being prepared.  I'm not sure I would want it either.

My Native American ancestry is generally telling me that the tradition is to sweat with genitals covered "out of respect" by spiritual elders. I don't believe that at all. I think that the Christian oppression brought on that inhibition and that nude sweat was simply forgotten as the tradition. It just don't make sense.  Casual nudity was no big deal for most peoples. Not saying that there haven't been people hung up on clothing like now.
Jbee

Pretty sure you are right about Christian oppression.  A friend who is a Lakota Medicine Woman told me that a lot of the original traditions were lost, and what is now practiced includes a lot of re-imagining. 

[Davie]

I've always thought it counterintuitive that the Arabs wear long flowing clothes but no doubt it does protect from the harsh sun and does allow air to circulate underneath unlike western clothes.

Here in the UK public nudity is becoming more acceptable, certainly in the countryside with no  prosecutions for several years for non-sexual nakedness.

Our biggest problem are demonstrators against children attending naturist events which take place at commercial premises. These business are now being forced by business reasons to make these events 18 plus. There was also its a near riot last Saturday when naturists leaving an event were spat at, hassled and had their cars damaged. All this brought about by mindless thugs, whipped up by social media giving a totally wrong idea about naturists. The local press were involved in this an then turned up at the event, real chickbait reporting.

According to these mindless people all naturists are paedophiles. It's impossible to enter a dialogue with them and naturism us an easy target, all made worse on this particular evening when all the pubs turned out early at 10.00 pm due to the virus restrictions.

Apart from these thugs we are making progress

Davie 

[Greenbare Woods]

Here in the UK public nudity is becoming more acceptable, certainly in the countryside with no  prosecutions for several years for non-sexual nakedness.

That is good news.  Most people enjoy seeing other humans.

Our biggest problem are demonstrators against children attending naturist events which take place at commercial premises. These business are now being forced by business reasons to make these events 18 plus. There was also its a near riot last Saturday when naturists leaving an event were spat at, hassled and had their cars damaged. All this brought about by mindless thugs, whipped up by social media giving a totally wrong idea about naturists. The local press were involved in this an then turned up at the event, real chickbait reporting.
Davie 

That is sad.  The media feeds on controversy and works hard to stir up as much turmoil as they can.  A good riot gives them lots of fodder for their aggressive hate speech.  Many of the sheep willingly go riot on command.   It is impossible to dialogue with them.  They read it all in the DailyMail, etc.

Progress is being made though.  More people are being seen naked in many places.  The media will stop reporting when it becomes too "ho hum" to sell products.

 

[jbeegoode]

A couple of Halloweens ago, our costumes were"nude." We got flesh colored dancer tights and I placed black tape over "the naughty bits." It made censor bars. We had fun with it. We won prizes in two contests. It did somehow feel genuinely naked when up on stage under bright lights.

I've thought to revive the costumes and wander the U of A distributing naturist pamphlets. Just common sense. I wrote about this somewhere a couple of years ago, but the thread escapes me. One of these days, we'll get around to trying that action out.

We have been indoctrinating people into public nudity with the sweat.  Some of the newbies tend to strip down as they get comfortable and trust more and more. The Women Only Sweat has been doing this. It gives them an extra bridge toward social nudity without a mix of genders. Getting stuck on the bridge can be discouraged, it was a problem at the old sweat, but so far, it is working out. I sometimes have a presence before and after the official women's hours. That is a bridge to comfort, too. Being around naked Jbee.

I have to keep inside like a leper during their girls being girlish bonding time. It is good indoctrination for them. Last night, there was a tap on my door and it opened. An old friend that I never thought I'd see at the sweat, let alone nude was standing there. She had been given a handful of peppermint cuttings by DF and needed a paper towel. I invited her in to retrieve one. It does my heart good to see inhibition bravely disappear and freedom embraced.

I've created a nice comfortable garden atmosphere. Many people don't like to put clothing back on, anyone here has probably experienced that.. There is an outside shower, but still the clothing may be clean on a dirty body, feel confining after a time natural, or liberation is tough to let go of, or it is a hot weather. Sometimes, folks walk out in towels, or less and comfortably carnude home.

People evolve and I still believe that everyone is naturally a naturist, they just don't know it yet.
Jbee
Jbee

[jbeegoode]

While the other "public nudity" thread is in a political muck currently, I'd like to bring up strategy for social change in this one. This is NUDE politics.

The gay movement has come a great distance in a relatively short time. It started with a spark that ignited from an incident that created a riot in, I think, Boston. Homosexuals account for only 6% of society, and then the gray area 20 to 40% as it gets diluted into just tendencies and experimentation. This is a very small minority and starting from an even more oppressed and looked down upon sub group.

Palestinians issues didn't get heard until some turned terrorists and began doing things like shooting up the airport in Rome. Only then were their grievances and situation made aware of. Everybody seemed to hate them, but they did get heard.

Nudes are a small segment, much more tolerated generally, depending on regions than LGBQ, etc. were. I would say that while many people have gay relatives and friends, nudes too are relatives, friends, they are actually own selves repressed. We should have an easy climb out of the closet and into mainstream, but...not in America.

While, rioting, or shooting up a fashion show in the nude is probably a certain losing strategy, what could be done to bring these issues to mind? Naked Rosa Parks on a bus? Armed naked people in combat boots? These avenues come across to me as rather...humor. The Supreme Court has already negated nudity as protected freedom of self expression...wrong, very wrong.

There has been a lot of change I am told by good natured mass protest. The Seattle Solstice bike ride. The World Naked Bike Ride. Small local protest, but all with a good nature behavior. Demonstrations of people having fun naked.

In some places something like these could be dealt with harshly by the law. It does get media attention to be nude in public. It gets some people to think, like during the social opinion changes during the early civil right movement, racial and gender bra burners, yet people tend to think in their accustomed boxes, with their biases and ingrained from birth story of perception when it comes to nudity. Their own. It's okay to be gay, to each his own, but nude seems to be taken differently.

What can be presented to jar thinking, make nudity feel safe, just get people to think consider, make it important enough to get a conversation going, and get out from under that blanket of sexual connotations? Heck, gay is about sex! Naughty sex.
Jbee