Truly sad and stunning news from De Anza Springs

[jaybirdsen]

Sounds like a vindictive action or maybe it was in the cards all along.

https://www.eastcountymagazine.org/nudity-no-more-de-anza-springs-resort-orders-residents-cover?fbclid=IwAR3drjVWx2cjq3gEVzI82jWY_mnNhto43oDIdXjuCfULJ2-Oulh1q3GIsQg

Times are a changing. The world's rearranging. A time that will soon be no more. Tell me where does a slow moving old nudist outlaw got to go?

[jbeegoode]

Hard to understand how so many rented home-sites wouldn't be enough, let alone the membership dues, motel and individual units for daily/weekly use. I think that it is over 100 units paying a few hundred a month for their spots, plus dues.

They must have arranged a major mortgage situation. It being mostly raw land, other than the trailer park and facility buildings, a bank might not have easily financed the sale.  Sold as a business, the bank surely would have expected a model that would produce payments. Now, the income base, all nudists, will be destroyed as they leave. That seems dumb. They must have some other plans after they run out the income provided by the residents...like sell it off some way?

Sounds like a class action suit will rightfully come and then there are those expenses and that lawsuit getting in the way of any sales, tying things up.

The bimbos will go under. The bank comes up with cheap dirt, instead of a business. Who buys it? How much does the previous owner get each month from the business that he may lose? Free and clear? Did he finance the land, or did the bank pay him a lump sum? When a business is sold, you usually don't come out squeaky clean. If he sold it himself and it went under, he might end up getting the land back with forfeiture.

I hope that the residents have the wherewithal to sue the bas...bugg...ah, new owners. 

Anyway, although we haven't been out there in quite awhile, I'd like to know that it is there whenever we visit San Diego, Blacks Beach, etc., and then, to lose ALL OF THAT GREAT HIKING!!!! Maybe there will be a way to use the trails by another entrance. They don't own the surrounding property, in fact, not so much, relatively.

Gotta map, who owns what, jaybirdsen? I'm thinking most of the hiking is on railroad and National Forest lands.
Jbee

[jbeegoode]

Not a total tragedy. They don't own the trails. Here's a map and explanation:

https://hikingguy.com/hiking-trails/hiking-san-diego/goat-canyon-trestle-hike/

Alternative is...AND don't forget that we are free range and this topic (De Anza) may now end up in the Free Range, or Trip Report sections in the future. De Anza Springs will soon become a stealth move, or business as usual for us.

If you don't mind giving your money to pigs, we can still camp at the resort. They don't own the trails and they won't enforce the trails around the area. There isn't actually any law that I'm aware of restricting nudity in those areas.

The government and the railroads own and control the trails. As for the railroad, it is the same as usual on their property, same risk, same lack of enforcement.

This news got me going and when you asked, "What's to do?" I spent a couple of hours making myself feel better. There are other ways into there. There are lots of off-road situations (even designated), if ya got a 4x4. There are official trailheads in there, Valley of the Moon, Goat Canyon trestle trailhead, lots of exploration and camping out there. Which has me fired up as it could be fun to do some of it. Screw the new owners. They'll be broke and someone else will be in the middle of the former paradise.

Jbee

[nuduke]

Of course I've never been to De Anza but I've repeatedly heard about it over some years from forum members that have been there.
It seems sad that this haven of freedom to 'be as you wish' has 'gone textile' and reversed that wonderful ethic.
I feel sorry for the regular visitors and its reputation.  However, it seems as if 'business is business' in the new regime and that it wants to tap a clientele that will come in greater numbers and with deeper pockets than we naturists.
John

[Greenbare Woods]

I've never been to their resort.   Looking on the linked map it is right next to "Love Machine Festival" and "Umbrella Weekend Music and Arts Festival."
I'm wondering if the "Love Machine Festival" is compatible with a classic nudist resort?    Or, are those things shown on Google Maps part of the nudist resort?   They connect by several roads.

I'm not surprised by this event.  The original owners likely got old and wanted to retire.  Running such an operation was undoubtedly a lot of work.  The new owners want more money, either for mortgage payments or just think they can market the resort at a higher price to a wider market.  New ownership often changes everything.  It makes me see how thoughtful Neil was in turning Colorado's Valley View Hot Springs into "Orient Land Trust" so it couldn't be sold off after he died. 

Out here in the wilds of Washington State there is a music festival venue called the Gorge Amphitheater. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gorge_Amphitheatre#/media/File:Gorge_Amphitheatre.jpg   It draws big crowds of mostly clothist young people to it's events.  A similar venue could draw very large crowds from San Diego and Los Angeles.  Sometimes you can go naked at music festivals without getting complaints, but it's not the same.

[Peter S]

One of our "stately homes", Abbey House in Malmesbury (in the centre of Malmesbury, no less) opens its garden to the public, and for many years was owned by Barbara and Ian Pollard, known colloquially as The Naked Gardeners because, duh, they gardened naked, much to the amusement and bemusement of their visitors. Later they opened up for a clothing optional day once a month, a highly popular event which lasted several years, the clothed and naked quite happy sharing the grounds. On at least one recorded occasion a coachload of Women's Institute members turned up for a day at the gardens to find it was CO day - they were quite happy to continue, though they didn't partake.

Things took a downward turn a few years ago when Ian Pollard became ill, and about three years ago the Abbey House was sold to an American couple, who also bought a nearby hotel. Since then the CO days have ceased, and are widely mourned. Despite being in the centre of town the monthly naked days never caused a problem with the neighbours, except I believe on one occasion when there was a complaint that, at one distant corner of the grounds, outsiders could see in; the problem wasn't complaints from outsiders, but catcalling from youths looking through the fence, so the fence was repaired.

[jbeegoode]

DANG! That was first on my list, whenever I get around to stopping by your neck of the woods. What else can a naked body enjoy there? Davie does group walks. Sherwood Forest apparently can be wonderful. What's to do naked?

I suppose that "American couple" could be replaced "rich money oriented couple" or "non-local couple" placing profit and their own culture above community.

Sorry, I've been listening to and reading Hawaiian history today, as I hear the voices of what had happened to Maui leading up to the destruction there. A trail of tears.
Jbee

[nuduke]

One of our "stately homes", Abbey House in Malmesbury (in the centre of Malmesbury, no less) opens its garden to the public, and for many years was owned by Barbara and Ian Pollard, .......... Since then the CO days have ceased, and are widely mourned.

Thanks for that, Peter.  Over the years since I last went I have looked for the calendar of Abbey House CO days and never found it.  I surmised that they might have stopped but your post is the first actual conformation of that.  Hey Ho.
John

[nuduke]

DANG! That was first on my list, whenever I get around to stopping by your neck of the woods. What else can a naked body enjoy there? Davie does group walks. Sherwood Forest apparently can be wonderful. What's to do naked?
Jbee

You have to face the fact, Jbee that the UK is not a naturally or extensively naturist country, despite our liberal law on the subject.
If you want to be naked in nature here its usually either secret naturism or booking into a CO club, many of which are very guarded about who they let in.  Abbey house was a rare exception.  If you ever visit the UK (and I hope you'll call in and stay with us as you pass through!), I'll drive you round and show you why that's so. 
We are a country where to escape the eyes of others is actually quite hard.  You have to live near the right places or visit them.  Every inch of land and water in our country is owned by someone, albeit that a few bits are owned by the state as national parks but even then, most of the land in the UK national parks is privately owned by local people, businesses and organisations. The national park authorities are responsible for managing and protecting the parks, but they do not own all of the land.  So you are always on the QV to see that you are not trespassing. 
I live in an area of huge acreage of open fields but rarely are they out of sight of farm buildings, roads, villages, settlements etc., limiting how far one can walk unseen which is frequently measured in just hundreds of yards, not miles.  A glance at google maps for any of our rural counties will confirm that. For the vast majority of the land, any areas of natural beauty, or areas that one might think are suitable for naked walking are likely to be walked by many other types of hiker, tourist, visitor etc. 
How I envy the wide open spaces in the US that you and DF inhabit where you can walk free without much chance of encountering anyone, even on the trails. 
It's not surprising - there are over 60m of us packed into 299k sq mi (727/sq mi).  In AZ there are only 7m of you in 113k sq mi (63/sq mi).  We are 12 times more packed in than Arizonans!  It's no wonder you don't bump into each other often in the less populated areas.  Even in more populous places such as CA the pop density is only 249/sq mi.
That said and from all our experience of others trip reports over many years, there are, of course, many opportunities to hike naked, but you've often got to travel a long way to do that.  So it's not an everyday occurrence for many (most?) of us Brits.  Take our colleague Yeldew, for instance.  He and I know each other quite well now having taken a couple of walks in woodland together and attended the same naturist swim (which btw I haven't been to for some time actually - must make time...!).  He has a super little camper van in which he makes the substantial journeys (2-5 hours drive) to join outdoor naturist walkers (used to be SOC now Naturist Ramblers I dimly recall but don't quote me), sleeps over and returns.  So a 3 day commitment for a days walk.  He's very dedicated!  You've got to do that sort of thing.  Davie seems to get a fair bit of naked hiking in.  Davie, how far/long do you typically drive for a days walking?  I just don't have the time to make such a commitment regularly and don't like driving that much!
So yes, we have a very beautiful country but rather congested, needing effort to be naturist in nature and not always as naturist friendly as one might desire!
John

[jbeegoode]

Most of our best walking spots are a couple of hours and more from home. There is usually an Intestate involved and often a harsh road, even 4x4, so distance. We spend time before and after packing/unpacking, setting up camp, depending on the equipment needed, length of stay, glamping, car camping, or backpacking. A little van would be convenient, but we love sleeping in a topfree tent looking out at stars and we're generally confident that it won't rain.

Three days means some time wandering around camp and enjoying it the first day, A full day's hike the next, and a leisurely break camp and trip home the third. Often, there is a walk on the first and third days. We can have a fire, or get into the moon and stars away from city lights, or just find a quiet spot and hang out for and hour or two.

When we go to the hot springs, we pack the night before, get up early, get there about noon (two and a half hour drive), spend as many days at it as possible and leave the last afternoon at the last possible time. We often stop for dinner along the way., so we're not coping with cooking.

It is a great way to spend three days. Three day weekend camping is a big deal in USA, so it can't be so bad. People get off of work Friday, arrive at night, set up camp and come back Sunday afternoon in the jams of traffic, with like minded others.We do it mid-week, usually. We're "retired" like you, so we have options. The difference between weekend and mid-week is dramatic. I don't consider Yeldew so much dedicated, but with dedicated time to what he knows is wonderful. It ain't arduous, it's loving what ya do. I'd bet that the guys who come up with the routes to group hike, use those routes and others, before bringing along a pack of naked walkers. They check potentials, scout, try it, maybe with c some clothes and then without on different days. They probably have a whole list by now.

I don't particularly enjoy driving anymore, I just do it, part of the deal. I'm DF's chauffeur. 

I have written a beginners article about camping with you in mind, but it will take a bunch of setup photos to illustrate, so it has sat for several months, maybe over a year. I'll get to it.

Looking forward to our days together, BUT I was asking about things to do nude. You just told me about driving around showing me things that I can't do!
Jbee

[Peter S]

Let me view the UK countryside from a slightly different perspective from John Nuduke - yes, we're a crowded little island, but fortunately most of the crowds like to congregate in towns and cities and leave the countryside free for the rest of us to wander through. Many of those who do come out to "explore the countryside" do no more than wander a few yards from their cars to have a picnic. I've wandered many a mile without seeing a soul; granted no walk can avoid passing a house or two, or passing through a village at some point, requiring some discretionary cover, and OK, it's not the wide open wilderness that parts of the US has to offer, but a day's untrammelled naked hike is perfectly feasible. Living on the edge of the Cotswolds I have a certain advantage, I know, able to reach a naked walking route in 15-20 minutes, so perhaps my view is somewhat biased. But we also have lots of open moorland and various Wolds to offer the energetic naturist.

[jbeegoode]

Nuduke, how far are the Cotswolds from you?
Jbee

[nuduke]

Yes, actually, I agree with Peter S.  Whilst I painted a pessimistic picture of our crowded island, I was fully aware that, for some, there are plenty of deserted areas where naked walking can be done.  I wanted to draw the contrast between the populous UK and the wide open spaces of the USA.
I too have benefitted from getting away from the common throng, clustering by their public picnic tables a few yards from car parks! . 
However, I was talking from a rather personal perspective.  In my region, Lincolnshire, it's difficult to find those areas because, whilst it appears rural, the vast majority of land is agricultural and therefore dotted all over with farm buildings, workers in the fields, small settlements and villages, reducing the chance to remain undiscovered.  So it is quite difficult to get to a walking zone that's within a reasonable drive from me (say about 45mins plus or minus). 
The Cotswolds are about 2 and a half hours drive from my location and one has to do a lot of research to find the sort of location Peter describes wherever one chooses to hike.
Bottom line is, whilst I do enjoy very much a naked walk, I don't prioritise it these days or make enough effort to find and get to appropriate locations.  Does that make me a bad Free Range Naturist?  I guess it does.  But I've had plenty of naked walks (in the TSNS days mostly) and I'm mainly a domestic naturist these days. 
Jbee, I admire the effort you and DF go to to reach your idyllic locations.  That amount of effort is not for me - too much other stuff going on!
However, I would be extremely interested in an article or series of posts, blogs or whatnot about the details of how you camp and what equipment you take with you.  Not only that I've often wondered but that I might pick up a few tips and maybe dip my toe in the water of camping sometime.
John

[jbeegoode]

I'll see what I've completed toward the post for the website. I may be able to email it to you without the pics.
Jbee

[eyesup]

Does that make me a bad Free Range Naturist?  I guess it does.

No, John.

If you aspire to seek the freedom of walking unbound by clothes, convention or regulation, and you accomplish that. Then you are a Free Range Naturist. The whole point of this practice is to NOT do what is expected and in the process to lift yourself above the drudge. There's no checklist, no bullet points or guidelines. And certainly no need or point to compare yourself to anyone. As long as you are trying to get out in the country to free yourself for a short time and you return with a bounce in yer step, "good on ya mate!"

I haven't been out in such a long time I expect when I do it will be like a new experience. I look forward to that. There have been reasons why that is the case and I simply am prioritizing. My choice. I don't ask for advice, permission or commentary.

Duane