Urinating while naked in free range areas

[Greenbare Woods]

Karla posted the following comment on another topic.  It perhaps could lead to a discussion on its own topic.

On thinking about it, I've also been surprised at how comfortable the Germans are with urinating in public places compared to the Brits (although some Brits do it just as often but mainly when drunk).

I've never been to Germany or the UK so I really can't comment about how comfortable the locals are in those places.  I have read that its common for people to piss in public parks in German cities. 

In the US, the cops will often arrest men for pissing in public.  The charge is "indecent exposure" which translates as exposing his penis while he urinated.  I don't recall seeing a news story about a man being charged for urination, just for penis exposure.  A lot of US cops and cities are quite up-tight about being naked in cities. 

Personally, I've become more casual, especially when naked.  I don't mind stepping off to the side of the path and watering a bush.  Its natural recycling and good nutrients for plants. 

A few years ago I belonged to a regular nudist club, one that did not have their own resort.  I found that none of the rest of the members would ever urinate in public or within sight of each other even when on an infrequent nude hike.  Human bodies may be "natural" but body functions are kept hidden.   Very few US nudist parks have common toilet facilities for men and women, although a few do. 

I'm curious about how other Free Range Naturists feel about urination while on naturist hikes, walks, or activities?  Do naked people you hike with or travel with feel comfortable urinating by the side of the path within sight of the rest of the group?  Do you?  Is it done or not done?  What do you say?

[milfmog]

I'm curious about how other Free Range Naturists feel about urination while on naturist hikes, walks, or activities?  Do naked people you hike with or travel with feel comfortable urinating by the side of the path within sight of the rest of the group?  Do you?  Is it done or not done?  What do you say?

I don't worry about it. If I need to dispose of surplus fluids, I will step of the path and do so. I have never noted anyone on an SOC* walk appearing bashful about it either though I do not recall any of the relatively rare female walkers urinating in view of the group.

Disposing of solid waste is a little different; I feel a need for privacy. Being a regular dog walker I always have a supply of strong plastic pick up bags with me and wet wipes for cleaning up (carried in case cleaning hands is necessary after a careless pick up behind the dog but just as effective for personal hygiene if required).

Sorry, we seem to be straying into the yuckier aspects of long rural walking.

Have fun,


Ian.

* Singles Outdoor Club. A naturist walking group, predominantly in south east England. Full details on their website, here.

[stuart]

On the recent NEWT (Naked European Walking Tour) people were pretty relaxed about it. You just nipped behind a tree or if there was none you just moved away from the group for a minute and no one really bothered.

Personally I don't want anyone peeing where I'm sitting having my lunch, otherwise it doesn't really bother me either way. I'll maintain a conversation without batting an eyelid if someone stops to urinate as long as they're comfortable.

[Karla]

On the recent NEWT (Naked European Walking Tour) people were pretty relaxed about it. You just nipped behind a tree or if there was none you just moved away from the group for a minute and no one really bothered.

Personally I don't want anyone peeing where I'm sitting having my lunch, otherwise it doesn't really bother me either way. I'll maintain a conversation without batting an eyelid if someone stops to urinate as long as they're comfortable.

There was one trip down from the hill when me and another woman ended up sychronising when we needed to pee which was quite amusing.

I have to admit that I was a bit unsure about whether to hide when peeing. It's not that I'm personally embarassed, it's more that I don't whether it will make other people feel uncomfortable, possibly because they assume that I will be. It's the same with being naked in front of other people in a situation where they expect you to be clothed. Being naked in public and urinating in public are quite analogous in a way.

I remember on a bike ride in Germany, stopping, squatting and then another bike came by and saw me and he apologised as he rode past. Yet I've often seen men get out from cars and trucks and urinate in public places.

There was one time though when we were in the highlands of Scotland and we walked to one of the most picturesque scenes to see if we could get some privacy and take some naked shots. As you drive into Glencoe, there's a single tree by a loch with mountains behind it. You often see it on photography magazine covers and calendars (google blackmount glencoe and you'll see what I mean).

As we were trudging around the bog land I thought I was out of sight of the busy road so I squatted down to urinate. Just then a double decker coach load of tourists went past and there was me squatting in front of one of most iconic scenes in Scotland.

[jbeegoode]

Very cute story Karla.

My girlfriend always gets private on the trail. Not one to be concerned about people seeing her body or with me at home, but on the trail she wants privacy.

Me and the boys, through the years, often would drop off a few processed beers together. Sometimes in a line on the side of the road. Sometimes conversation about it, like what is commonly discussed in public toilet urinals. With backs to the girls it was okay outdoors.

 During coed naturist activities I’ve not seen this happen with the boys. Females go off for privacy claiming embarrassment. I go off to be polite.
 
I have had to mark my territory to keep the neighbors dogs from messing up my property. I realized that marking a taller bush is more effective. I now use an open ground space in nature. I figure that I have less chance of obstructing the patterns and behaviors in the ecological context of the local wildlife that way. Some critter up the food chain gets a whiff of that bad boy human marking and it might change the balance of everything for awhile. Leave no trace.

In India this type of behavior is very common. There are two and a half times more cell phones than functioning toilets.

The rest of the waste process is off topic; I assume. Well, Likewise Milfmog. I just am that way. And bury it deep. I was walking down a trail today and my nose got an obnoxious taste of someone’s bouquet. Only if you really have to and….

Not near water and never uphill. Cattle do that. Their dumb.

[Greenbare Woods]

The rest of the waste process is off topic; I assume. Well, Likewise Milfmog. I just am that way. And bury it deep.

Not near water and never uphill. Cattle do that. Their dumb.

The US Forest Serivce publishes a little advice for depositing waste in the woods.  They point out that only the top few inches is biologiclly active.  Burying waste "deep" below the biological layer is therefore not recommended by the US Forest service.  They recommend burrying solid waste shallow, in the bio layer of soil.  Its gone in a week.

Migrating herds of cattle have been observed to be important for maintaining grasslands.  Mashing down the grass into a mat helps to hold moisture and prevent desertification, and the bio waste also helps the grass. 

Some bovine left a couple of large plops on my regular walking path last week.  I don't normally have cattle on my land, and I didn't see that one.  Have to always watch your step, even on the path, and especially when walking barefoot.  The other critters seem to use my path more than I do, and aren't so careful where they deposit.  I've heard that coyotes do it in the middle of the path on purpose. 

[eyesup]

I have always taken the position that if needed, water a plant.  I always step off the trail and have only needed once or twice to dig a "cathole".  I live in a desert.  The bio layer is thin and deposits on the top will be dessicated within a day or two.  Degradation takes much longer than a wet environment.  Surface damage to the cryptobiotic layer will destroy the deserts ability to maintain a binding layer to prevent dust.  It takes years for the layer to be restored.  Cattle are not indigenous and will destroy this natural layer.

I am not bothered by the necessity of either of the body's functions.  I realize that most people are and will take precautions to avoid offending someone.

I have wondered whether the need for privacy is increased depending on the body's posture.  Standing up in a normal stance can be seen as confident.  Squatting puts you in a more vulnerable position.  You can't react quickly.  Crouching is one thing but squatting and being caught in the middle of relieving yourself leaves you few options.  Men stand while peeing.  Women don't, although I have seen devices in camping and backpacking catalogs that will allow women to remain standing.  I have no info on whether they work as advertised.

Does being vulnerable in that way have any connection to the desire to seek privacy? We try to ensure that we won't be caught out and can't easily react if approached.  If approached by someone we always turn to meet them and look them in the eye.  If we are in a vulnerable position, we can't do that.

What a strange set of inhibitions and motivations make up the human being.

[Georgew1959]

"I have always taken the position that if needed, water a plant.".........that's not neceassarily such a great idea. Urine has a lot of nitrogen in it. Whilst that can be helpful to plant nutrition, many (most) plants can't tolerate the high concentrations found in human urine.

There's been an interesting discussion thread in a gardening programme i listen to on the radio about peeing on the weeds in your grass to kill them off. Most weeds die if they're peed on often, but grass thrives on it.

[jbeegoode]

As a young boy, I lived in Japan. This was in the mid-1950’s, really just after the end of the war and japans was coming out of its feudal system. The countryside was very traditional. I can still picture the common practice of toileting in the ditches on the side of the road. Grandma squatted, everyone had no problem relieving themselves publicly there, exposing themselves, as we drove past in our big Buick. The waste of all was kept in large “honeybuckets” and simmered into fertilizer, if not kept left on the side of the road, in a ditch. I don’t remember the defecating and urine a problem in the towns and countryside, which was mostly cultivated and nature was only in the mountains and hillsides. That unique smell of those honeybuckets are etched into my mind to this day, as the distinctive bouquets (yeck) permeated the entire breadth and breath of the countryside. I suppose that the locals grew up with it, but, dang….

I remember in Bolivia a woman in a billowing multi-pettycoat skirt seemingly just sitting/squatting in the market in the gutter, minding her own business. Then I saw the stream of fluid running out from under and down hill.

The people of the country have had no compunction for centuries all over the world.  Don’t see any reason to drop this very practical practice in the less populated parts of our world. It suddenly, in the recent past, became a social folly and sometimes a crime, which relative to millennia of humanity and those perspectives is just silly and peculiar.

They’ll look the other way. If you are bothered and have concern for others stepping into it in their boots or bare feet, I suggest turning away or finding a concealing bush to get behind. Burying the smell, perhaps. I’m usually alone on the trail, or with only one or two more that I know, anyway.

Urine has acid and my little dog killed a few of his favorite stations that were made up of a plant.

[Greenbare Woods]

There's been an interesting discussion thread in a gardening programme i listen to on the radio about peeing on the weeds in your grass to kill them off. Most weeds die if they're peed on often, but grass thrives on it.

Grass does thrive on urine.  If you pee on a lawn you end up with darker, greener, taller spots on the lawn because that one place feels more "loved" than the rest of the lawn.

Too much is too much though so you can kill the grass by peeing in one small place over and over.  Move around and grass feels the love. 

[Pete Knight]

My experience of unabashed toilet habits in Germany was with a minibus load of newly trained RAF Air Movements Operators. We stopped for a comfort break at a rest area on an autobahn,  shortly after a coach stopped and the females went to the toilet block while the guys just found a tree to pee against. One guy chose a tree near our group,  which included a couple of WRAF's, and decided mid pee to strike up a conversation. One of the WRAF's had obviously had a very sheltered upbringing, judging by the look of horror on her face! For the  remainder of the journey she just wouldn't shut up about what she'd witnessed.

In France I saw a  hitchhiker turn away from the traffic and piss over the armco barrier, his magnificent shaft of gold illuminated by the sun!

In South Sudan it was a whole new experience for me too, I worked at a  hospital operated by a well known NGO, which was well frequented. It wasn't unusual to see men stop anywhere to pee, and it took me a while to realise that when I saw just a head sticking up above the thigh high undergrowth it was the women having a pee, or indeed a dump. I learned that it was best to stay on a well beaten path to avoid stepping in some unpleasantness someone had left behind, it was like walking through a minefield sometimes. Some people didn't even bother to step far from a path before  dropping to a squat, and I found myself having to take an alternative route on more than one occasion.



Pete

[eyesup]

Taking care of business on a hike in the desert doesn't take very long.

No fumbling or stuck zippers to deal with. Stop, take care of business
then move on. Where I am there almost no danger of being offensive
to anyone.

It is possible to be private in the wide open.

Duane

[nudewalker]

Mrs. Walker has noticed that I seldom use the facilities in the camper (caravan as it is called in Europe) and prefer to relieve myself of excess fluids outside. most of the reasoning is that it keeps the holding tanks from filling up plus the returning to nature what I have removed. I doubt concentrations are that high since hydration is a must in this heat plus all the rain will dilute urine also. As for being out and about I do carry a small trowel and biodegradable paper for such events and follow the rules and suggestions set forth by the "experts" in the field. As for urination I try to get off the beaten path and aim for the base of a tree.

[eyesup]

. . . all the rain will dilute urine . . .

I was at a talk once, while involved in Boy Scouts, on 'Leave No Trace' and the man speaking said that urinating on a plant is ok as long as you don't use the same plant repeatedly.

Urine breaks down over time into what essentially fertilizers. You just have to give it time. Hence the caution on using the same spot. He was more concerned about animals sensing the salts in the fluid and licking it.

Never seen that, but it was the point he made.
Biology is a strange business!

Duane

[jbeegoode]

In France I saw a  hitchhiker turn away from the traffic and piss over the armco barrier, his magnificent shaft of gold illuminated by the sun!

In South Sudan it was a whole new experience for me too, I worked at a  hospital operated by a well known NGO, which was well frequented. It wasn't unusual to see men stop anywhere to pee, and it took me a while to realise that when I saw just a head sticking up above the thigh high undergrowth it was the women having a pee, or indeed a dump. I learned that it was best to stay on a well beaten path to avoid stepping in some unpleasantness someone had left behind, it was like walking through a minefield sometimes. Some people didn't even bother to step far from a path before  dropping to a squat, and I found myself having to take an alternative route on more than one occasion.

Pete

In India, a mostly barefoot country, I couldn't help but notice the frequency of urination in public and evidence of defecation.

 Although it dries up in a few days, around here, There is a period of unpleasant odor until that happens. I dig a hole if I can. I carry an ultra light snow tent stake on day trips and a tomahawk with a digger on one side when backpacking, making the ready latrine one of the first orders of business when we start a campsite.

When out with a good flowing stream, I sometimes to pee in it. It isn't enough to mess up the water, the animals do it. The reasoning is that my scent may disrupt the movement of the wildlife. If it is a good place to drink, an animal might stay away creating hardships and disrupting habits. If possible I do it one or two hundred feet away, more out of the riparian area.
Jbee