Encounters...what to do?

[Greenbare Woods]

What is the law in California regarding nudity in wilderness areas? We know it ok in National Parks as long as you cover up if someone asks.
Duane

California state law does not prohibit nudity.  Numerous California courts have held that just being naked is legal per se.  Armed with those court decisions, many people in San Francisco began going around the city naked so the City of San Francisco passed a City Ordinance against being naked except for some occasions.  The California State Parks system (which owns many beaches) has a park regulation prohibiting nudity.  But most of California does not have local ordinances (laws) against nudity, so only the state law applies -- nude is generally legal while minding your own business.  Federal government land such as National Forests and National Parks generally enforce local law, so naked would be legal on federal government land in much of California too.  They may ask you to cover up if someone else complains, but you won't get arrested for being naked. 

 

[eyesup]

. . . several years ago the then Sheriff wrote a letter in response to an inquiry about nude hiking that basically said the same thing . . .

Was this the Cahill letter, of Cahill Policy fame. I had heard that particular policy was no longer "a policy" and naturists were cautioned to be extra careful.

I agree the encounter would have been a positive one also if it had happened to me.

Duane

[John P]

No, the Cahill policy was another issue, relating to California state parks. Unfortunately, and somewhat similarly to the ban on nudity in San Francisco, I believe naturists handled events very badly and ended up with a serious defeat.

This is from the happy days, now lost:
http://www.bayareanaturists.org/cahill.html

[eyesup]

It seems that no matter the issue, when one side gains an advantage, one or both will always overestimate the strength of their position. Attempts are made to take advantage in practice or  to further the gain and end up with events backfiring.

Unfortunate.

Duane

[Peter S]

http://nakedpublicdares.com/daresub.doc/anbritdares/anbritwlk1.htm

Found this on the naked dares site - the poster mentions frequent problem-free encounters on a wide-ranging and often naked walk through France. Kudos!

[eyesup]

We've noted before the difference in acceptance from hikers in remote places to the average people you meet in a park or beach.

Hours of naked walking on a 600 mile trek! Nice!

Duane

[John P]

That's Brian Johnson. I don't know if he still has all his information up on the Internet, but he used to have lots of stuff about walking and canoeing in Europe, and also in the USA. I think he wrote a book about hiking the Pacific Crest Trail. Yes, here it is (wonder if there's any mention of nudity):
https://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Crest-Trail-Cicerone-Guides/dp/1852845880

Hikers on the Appalachian Trail have a saying "You walk your own walk" meaning that whatever gets you over the trail is your business, and you don't criticize anyone else, though you don't necessarily expect them to copy you either. Basically the farther you get from the trailhead, the more you tolerate other people, or expect to be tolerated by them.

My experience in Austria on the Naked European Walking Tour was that people might frown at you, but they let you go your own way. A group of us are planning to go again next year; maybe I should start a thread about that.

[jbeegoode]

How much experience with protective "what about the kids" attitudes have you encountered in the European tooleys? That's my only concern, or hangup to letting it hang out. They can get terribly uncomfortable and have extra legal standing (all incorrect, of course) Have those gone differently?
Jbee 

[nudewalker]

Some day I may get the chance to hike some of the more well known trails to experience first hand how people react to my dress or lack of dress. There have been those "looks" on some trails. Since my gear does not include the latest moisture wicking technology or reek of the brand names from REI. And I also have to add that it was near a more urban area and lets just say that the lack of knowledge showed once they were on the trail.

When the state of Pennsylvania toyed with user fees for their park system I advocated a sliding scale feeling the less equipment the less impact. Therefore a nude hiker with a simple backpack should pay less than the pseudo outdoor person with a big budget!

[John P]

How much experience with protective "what about the kids" attitudes have you encountered in the European tooleys? That's my only concern, or hangup to letting it hang out. They can get terribly uncomfortable and have extra legal standing (all incorrect, of course) Have those gone differently?
Jbee

European tooleys??? There's a Tooley Street in London where various interesting things have happened, but apart from that I'm mystified.

Here's a picture from the Naked European Walking Tour in 2014. It's possible that the woman and girl are holding hands for extra security, but nobody is yelling and screaming.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28291527/Naturism/eita.jpg

[eyesup]

JohnP, there is a post in the Suggestions from Jbee prodding Stuart & Karla to pony up a report from their trip to the NEWT in 2014. So maybe if you did it might be a catalyst.

Still no report.  (imagine the Jeopardy timer tune and/or crickets chirping) I know there is a lot going on and keeping this forum cranking along takes up energy and time. Hopefully the events haven't faded and we will see something soon. 

I always enjoy checking to see if anything has shown up as it gives me the opportunity to browse the site's galleries again. There is a lot to see and read.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

Tooleys are backwoods, or less frequented, less enforced areas.

Since you all were boldly cruising these realms, I wondered if there was a sampling of the European mindset of people with kids encountering nudes. Here in USA, there is an assumption that the children need to be shielded. There European Alps, could it be different? There is one pic of Karla here: http://www.freerangenaturism.com/Alps/001_Klausenberg/klausenberg.htm passing what appears to be young people (maybe they just look small because of distance) seemingly without alarm, or even much concern. This is another. I'm curious about textile attitude there. The more samplings of encounters, the better the conclusion. Without much to go on yet, I collect anecdotes.

[Peter S]

I suspect the attitude over here (UK rather than Europe) is much the same as there, JBee. Lots of "what about the children" whenever nudity is mentioned, and accounts of children giggling and pointing at events like the WNBR. As usual it's the parents, or others, who think there's "something wrong" and use children to emphasise their opinion (which saves them having to justify or rationalise it themselves). Children don't know there's anything wrong so aren't in the least bit worried.

That's the usual generality dealt with. On the British NAturism website there's this: http://www.bn.org.uk/community/files/file/740-bn-children-deserve-better-report-2016/, and if you look at the discussion hee http://www.naturist-corner.net/community/index.php?topic=21395.0 there's quite a bit of anecdotal "this isn't a problem" evidence - though of course as it's from naturists it should probably be dismissed as biased 

peter

[John P]

Stuart and Karla did go on the NEWT one year, but it wasn't 2014. I'd know!

My friend Milt Lewis wrote up the 2014 trip for N magazine, mostly illustrated with pictures by me. As you know, JBG, the Naturist Society only pays for pictures, but I gave Milt half the money.

[jbeegoode]

Thank-you, Peter. I don't think that the problem of bias is as strong coming from naturists is a strong as the bias of textile obsessionists. Which to trust? Certainly not the the irrational, raised like that and not questioning people in concern. The naturists who have had first hand obvious results in practice, I'd trust their observations better. There are positional attitudes on both ends of the spectrum, of course, but....

All are rightly concerned for children and parents tend to get fearful and then irrational in their reaction and thinking. That's why I'm cautious around people with children. Some have the potential to react and attack in some way, like poisoning their children even more on the spot, or going back to the society at large to make a fight of it. Children can perceive behavior as something being wrong, even if their parents are only confused by the encounter, and that unknown creates surprise and fear.

The "this isn't a problem" in the naturist's opinion and anecdote during social nudity isn't counterbalanced. There are no problems caused, except by wrong and fears within the parental figures, elsewhere. The studies support this, and professional psych community knows this, at least those who have taken the trouble to look into the issues. The first BN article nails it. 

Jbee