Overall progress ??

[eyesup]

I've seen something similar to that. A person that has come to grips with what they can't do anything about, with a sense of humor.

My father had  triple bypass surgery years ago. In the procedure they used a pig's heart valve to replace his. After he woke up in recovery and deduced he wasn't dead, he motioned for the nurse to come close and he managed to get out, "oink".

She laughed. She knew he was fine.

Duane

[reubenT]

LOL!   He's saying  "I'm part piggy now"             If a person feels self conscious about a scar and wants to camouflage it, that's a different matter than  "look at me"  kind of tattooing.      A friend of ours who was a serious dedicated christian had an arm tattoo of a scantily dressed woman.   He didn't attempt to hide it.   But it was a leftover from an earlier life of lust and carousing.    His wife was the kid of a bar room singer,  grew up in the environment singing herself.   Her grandparents were Christian,  so she had church in her life as well when with them.    She's now the best Christian I know, works at a restaurant, always working for someones uplifting.

[nudewalker]

Jimmy Fallon's Thank You notes from last week. "Thank you ESPN magazines body issue for giving me body issues!".

[eyesup]

Mr. Fallon apparently missed the point of the article.

Duane

[JOhnGw]

This topic has reminded my of a gentleman with the most enormous pot belly who was at a naturist resort where we holidayed this year.
Naked, he looked much better than the many smaller bellies which I have seen in t-shirt and shorts on other holidays.

[eyesup]

With all this talk of image I remembered this quote I saw:

"Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy." - anonymous

Reaching the point where you no longer worry about others opinion about your appearance can be liberating.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

What is our overall progress in society in concern of body freedom lack of shame, etc.

I'm thinking that when you are concerned about the state of health of your body when comparing, instead of fashion or a personal notion of attractiveness, we all all be better off. People go to extremes to work at fashion. If they were naked, they might put that energy into health, making the body healthy. It is one thing to see the body as a temple, where you live, and treat it with care, another to accept it and others as they are no matter what condition.

When I go to nudist reservations, I see lots of poor health, but they are happy with that and many come there just to get away from social stigma, like size, flab and rebelling from the Adonis syndrome. This tells us that people won't switch to seeing bodies as healthy above ideals or fashion sense. But, if we were to then learn a different definition of healthy, not Swartsenniger, but a norm and natural, then that value would flourish. Changing that value can happen if we are a more nude, or body exposed society. It seems that health becomes a stronger industry as clothing diminishes. Still, these people on reservations are affected by the outside influences, where they spend most of their time.

 Body acceptance seems to be growing as clothing diminishes. Maybe that is an unwritten principle. Hanging out in the mall I notice how many women are wearing skin tights. All shapes sizes and ages. The new norm is spray paint on a butt is okay outerwear. Downtown in the evening young people are clubbing. The skirts are not even functioning, but all sorts of body sizes are in them. The beach a public place, still varies.

Older women are still telling each other to cover up. They tell each other that it ain't got it no more, or that needs to go. Try to lay that idea on an old man. The older I get, the more attractive these older women are. I've been hanging out with older women naked and they are also better not covered up in shame. They even act healthier and more youthful when they get naked. They are more confident, they smile and radiate more. They move as if their bodies are more alive. People cover up nesting within identity and persona as much as they coverup in textiles. 

I think that the trends are, for now, slowly incrementally heading in the right direction. More slowly that we would like. The tight styles, I think are a big step. Still, I look for one of those avante guarde popular changes that ripples through the rest of society like a wave. It has to come from youth.
Jbee

[nudewalker]

Yesterday was a trip into the big city for doctors appointments so we ended the day at a large shopping complex with a "good health" celebratory dinner planned before heading home. Mrs. Walker was on a mission of sorts and had a few stores in mind and I planted myself at a coffee shop and watched the people stroll past my table. Then remembering what Jbee had mentioned I began to notice the types of clothing that people wore.

Most females wore form fitting pants which really left little or nothing to the imagination when it comes to body shape. Painted on is quite the perfect description and it seems most wore at least knee high boots which just accentuated the area above. As for tops, it is kind of hard to see under jackets, sweatshirts and pull overs so we'll have to wait for a warm streak for that. Also quite a few cropped pants, mid calf length, worn with exercise shoes. Some even had mesh panels sewn in them. Most skirts I witnessed were long but being daytime and still winter it seems normal. 

Now the men I witnessed were quite the opposite. Jeans seemed to be sizes too big, droopy and worn low on the hips with underwear exposed some. On a bright note there were a few guys wearing utility kilts with tall lace up boots. In other words I'm not seeing the same body exposure in men as I did in women. So yes Jbee, I'm waiting for those changes too. Maybe with a ground swell of resistance too.

I was given a subscription to Sports Illustrated as a Christmas present so the annual swimsuit issue arrived the other day. Two things caught my attention: one; there were ads for Lane Bryant and Ashley Graham swimsuits that for a plus size woman were more revealing at most and two; the last model had a shirt that read, "A woman does not have to be modest to be respected"! Positive body vibes all around!

[eyesup]

While acknowledging that the whole concept of a swimsuit edition of a men's magazine is not what most of us consider progressing toward body acceptance, I saw a blurb about a "plus size" and/or "full figured" woman's bikini ad that was included in the magazine.

Progress can be measured in small or large units. The fact that a woman that does not fit the skin and bone requirements of model in a men's magazine was placed in that magazine, is a step toward a more encompassing view of human shapes and sizes. Though, she is a model and goes through the same routines in order to make herself more attractive.

Still, it is progress of a sort.

Duane

[nuduke]

Society is massively hypocritical about nudity.  We see it everywhere in the media and all the time but if someone does it live in public there is hell to pay with the old prudes and women with body issues (i.e. the majority) clucking and baying like animals at something they take for granted in other contexts.


Elsewhere I think I recalled the incidence in my art class (all women, except me, and most over 60) which I shall reiterate - I did a watercolour copy of a very good Victorian painting 'Truth Coming Out of Her Well to Shame Mankind' by J-L Gerome http://www.the-athenaeum.org/art/detail.php?ID=48974 and I had made a pretty good fist of it too, for a rank untrained amateur, by means of tracing and careful colouring.  I showed it to the tutor (woman, 40's or early 50's) who made no critical comment but started clucking and laughing with embarrassment that I had painted a nude which then spread to the 3 or 4 women around!


I was horrified.  I am still going to the class because the teacher is a good one but I was totally taken aback at her extraordinarily narrow minded response to my sincere attempt to draw the human form and try and reproduce the light and shade of this work which, I am not abashed to say I think is remarkably good for that genre (which to be honest was probably often painted for the titillating aspect). Has she never done life classes?  Can the artist not rise above the common Pavlovian, prurient response?  Obviously not in her case.  Human nature?  Huh!


John

[jbeegoode]

Bizarre! But what did the rest of the class use for subjects? Human form is often tough. Just look at the hips/caboose on this woman. She would be an unusual structure.
Jbee

[eyesup]

I am surprised at her response also. You would think that an art teacher would be focused of the end result, not the content. The idea should be a constructive treatment of your attempt to help you improve, if needed, the technique.

It's not only puzzling that an art teacher would be embarrassed by nudity in art, but that she, as a teacher, would behave in such a manner. Maybe you should diplomatically comment to her about the effects on people less hardy than yourself of laughing at their earnest attempts.

If you managed to re-create that painting, congrats. What IS she holding in her hand? A cat-o-nine-tails?

Duane

[jbeegoode]

The facial expression with the deep panda shadows is a tad creepy. It must have been quite a trick to not overdo the eyeshadow. The teacher must be a realist. Maybe she is too oriented toward technical training for her students. Any content should go over and be praised, as Eyesup has suggested. After all it is a creative expression.

Doing nudes with charcoal or pencil is difficult enough. I just get the shape of a forearm perfect and realize that it is too big for the rest of the body. Symmetry, is tough when the subjects are moving. You are very adventurous. It is good to challenge.
Jbee

[nuduke]

You bet it was surprising, Duane!  I agree with and share both your and Jbee's surprise at her reaction.  I have unwittingly fallen amongst a group of prudes!  But my point in the original post was that this is not unusual to find in the Uk and particularly in less cosmopolitan parts of the country.  However the teacher has taught me a lot, she is very nice and the class is fairly conveniently situated!  The teach is good at training technique as observed and this is what I have gained mightily from.  So as a naturist in textile company, I prefer to keep my counsel and enjoy the painting.  Here is a rather low res phone pic of my copy...what do you think?  Did I get the dark mood of original at all?  Very difficult to get deep shadows in watercolour.  I tried oils and acrylics but I just can't get on with the mess, smell and length of time it takes to set up.  With watercolour you fill a jar, rip off some kitchen paper and you're off!





John

[eyesup]

However the teacher has taught me a lot, she is very nice and the class is fairly conveniently situated!  The teach is good at training technique as observed and this is what I have gained mightily from.

Maybe the student could teach the teacher. A reminder that there is a reason the nude shows up in so much art over the millennia. The human form is a beautiful thing.

I applaud the effort of anyone that can do that, John! The mood of yours is different than the original. But that is impressive. You should be proud of it.

Duane