Author Topic: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?  (Read 226884 times)

JOhnGw

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #375 on: December 05, 2016, 10:08:17 AM »
I believe one of the fundamental causes of the problems of old age is that natural selection will not have tended to eliminate anything which manifests itself after prime reproductive age (unless, of course, you are a creationist in which case it is probably the work of the devil).
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

ric

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #376 on: December 05, 2016, 05:01:25 PM »
in general physical deterioration can be worked round , loosing mental function is the big one.

John P

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #377 on: December 05, 2016, 05:55:42 PM »
There is the so-called "grandmother hypothesis" which suggests that women who live to old age but don't have any more children are actually doing the best thing to pass along their genes. The idea is that with not much longer to live, a woman shouldn't be bearing children--who wouldn't be likely to survive--but can make a contribution to helping her grandchildren to reach adulthood. And I suppose we males also can have longer lifespans, but nobody expects us to do anything useful in our later years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmother_hypothesis

ric

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #378 on: December 05, 2016, 10:34:56 PM »
thats an old fashioned sexist way of looking at things

when ours were diddy my widowed retired father lived next door , he did his share of baby sitting

now our grandkids are nextdoor, wife and i do wednesdays , though as we have the labrador aswell i do get to slope off for a bit

jbeegoode

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #379 on: December 06, 2016, 08:06:21 AM »
thats an old fashioned sexist way of looking at things

when ours were diddy my widowed retired father lived next door , he did his share of baby sitting

now our grandkids are nextdoor, wife and i do wednesdays , though as we have the labrador aswell i do get to slope off for a bit
As a guy who had to deal with the sexist society of the 1990's and early 2000's, as a single dad, given no child support, and very little support by a mother, I can testify by the hour about how prejudiced people have been about the value and ability of a male to be a mom and a dad. I was insulted over and over again. Things like, facing judicial prejudice in court, the dead beat dad thing not applying to women, assuming and asking for the mother to be in my role, when she was not there. Yep, there is a chip on my shoulder, I raised a fine son and well, in spite of the negatives, better than many women. Today, I can grandfather as well as any grandmom, and my reproductive organs are still ready to roll up their sleeves. I don't think that I have the desire and wherewithal to put myself through parenting again, but I'm certain that I'm as capable as most any woman. 

On the other hand, many more women used to die during labor for millennia than today according to many historians. I don't know the certainty of that fact. Could be that those rigors would be too much for an older woman and those that went through with it selectively died off at a greater rate, without birth control. There is no certainty why women have menopause, just good guesses, but either sex has the ability to continue nurturing equally.
Jbee
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jbeegoode

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #380 on: December 06, 2016, 08:24:34 AM »
Quote from: JOhnGW
My fervent wish is that you and all around you have a comfortable and easy passage though these troubles and that the end, when it comes, should be an easy release.
I think that is an essential mantra for the over 60's of today and anybody really, JOhn, it should be sewn into a sampler and hung on the wall!
So many of us and particularly the older, surviving, parental, generation of the typical over 60's male on this site, as evidenced by Bob's, Safebare's and Milfmog's* posts, are living their last years in torment of disability and imprisonment by geriatric degenerative diseases, rare in former generations because people died younger.  We should have a cut off switch at the proverbial threescore years and ten! Or maybe fourscore in todays world.  Over that and it's a lottery as to whether you retain or lose your mind or body or both to aging that today medical science can prolong but yesterday nature never intended. I'd rather mitigate the risk and flick the switch!

John
*Consistency point of information, Mr Chairman: I know you aren't over 60 yet, Ian!
I definitely have to jump onto Ruben's band wagon. Most of the diseases of old age are preventable with diet and exercise, including cancers. To resolve that they are a real part of life, natural, or inevitable is foolish belief that will get a person very unhappy, if not dead. Quality of life is definitely sustainable much longer than we have been seeing. There is a gene factor, but very highly overrated.

Yep, things do change with age, but only wear down to an extent, which requires a more fervent effort to compensate. Life style is key and lifestyle focuses must be changed. People don't change, because ignorance, assumption, or being stuck with habit. Habits can be changed, diet, exercise, the way one copes with stress. Otherwise, I keep seeing people doing the same crap over and over, and I watch the effects continue. Belief is incredibly powerful, and associated are attitues. Economic necessity and associated lifestyle habits can become a trap. When the race is run, in 30 years, maybe we can compare, IF everyone is still around.
Jbee
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nuduke

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #381 on: December 07, 2016, 03:07:59 PM »
Quote from: jbee
Most of the diseases of old age are preventable with diet and exercise, including cancers.
That's a bit of an out-on-a-limb statement there, Jbee!  It appears that certain aspects of dietary practice and appropriate exercise levels contribute to good health in old age - no argument with that.  All preventable, though?  I think not.  Cancer particularly knows no boundaries.  Sure cancer incidence is raised by bad dietary and other habits but plenty of healthy people get cancer for no apparent reason. The other question I would ask is what diet and  what/how much exercise?   Whilst it cannot be refuted that a healthy diet and lifestyle tends to protect against the ravages of age, we must not try and generalise what are the panaceas.  Is there a clear answer to the question: how much of what foods taken at what time constitute the health diet that creates prevention?  No there isn't - it's all guesswork these days despite a few clear principles being available such as the amount you eat, balancing of fats, carbohydrate, vegetable matter and protein (all to be found in abundance in a Big Mac, but in the wrong proportions for long term promotion of health), the taking of some exercise as opposed to none.  It isn't as simple as that, though, is it?  We have to work hard and over generations to try and really understand what things to do to live your life to the optimum and prevent degenerative disease.  I admire you, Jbee for the long term devotion you have to healthy eating and healthy practices, seeking spiritual balance and so on. But will it prevent you getting dementia, heart disease, skeletal degeneration, prostate problems, bowel cancer?  You don't know.  But you hold to the principle (as many of us do) that avoiding those things that are known to be more harmful must be a good thing.  Again, no problem with that.  But the reverse is not yet known i.e. what things that if adopted/consumed will prevent geriatric malaise? Your lifestyle is mostly full of enviably healthy practices and foods, but what areas do you not even know about?  For instance: What of the regular inhalation of wood smoke in confined circumstances during episodes of rapid loss of body moisture and electrolytes (i.e. repeated use of the sweat)?   Is that a physical risk or a spiritual benefit? 

I think several generations will have gone by before we understand the sort of diet and the forms of exercise that will reliably, repeatably make things like dementia, arthritis and perhaps even cancer a thing of the past but I am reasonably confident that in 100-200 years time our successors will look back and see where we have come in preventative 'medicine' for longevity in the same way as we look back and see the progress in understanding the treatment and avoidance of infection, ensuring good public health and the ability to fix disease through operations and drugs.

I trust those future people will look back and say "What!! They actually wore clothes!!  That was soooo unhealthy!" :)

John

nudewalker

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #382 on: December 07, 2016, 03:58:57 PM »
I don't think there is no magic solution to longevity. Sure a diet and exercise helps but lets face it where we live has a great deal to do with it, along with our genetic makeup. One of the things I have discovered since the change of retirement qualifications in my industry. At one time thirty years of service would earn one a package that was good enough to live on. However since the demise of the defined benefit packages many are now working those jobs forty plus years. Now it seems that many in my age group are having to have hip and knee replacements because the joints are worn out from overuse. Some have commented what good is it to work so long if you can't enjoy it when your done.

I have the same issues that most on my mothers side of the family have dealt with, that being high fat content in the blood stream. Yes I do watch my diet, get exercise and take medication for it and all but one of the maternal side lived well into their eighties. My fathers side is plagued with cancers; six of seven brothers and most of the sisters. And not all the same type of cancer either but two brothers who worked in the same place got the same cancer.

Maybe if I beat the odds so to speak and they ask my daughter the secret to my longevity she'll say "He was a naturist!".
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

JOhnGw

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #383 on: December 07, 2016, 04:09:47 PM »
I am told that one doctor, when asked what one should do to have a long and healthy life replied: "Be rich."
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

John P

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #384 on: December 07, 2016, 05:47:11 PM »
Supposedly Jonathan Swift  said, "The best doctors in the world are Doctor Diet, Doctor Quiet, and Doctor Merryman." It sounds like a reasonable policy.

There are a million diet plans around, each guaranteed to make us healthier than any of the others, so I don't put much stock in any of them (like religion in that way). The so-called Mediterranean diet makes a lot of sense, and I like the food, not that I really follow it very closely. As people who've already reached middle age (harrumph) we're statistically likely to live into our 80s, and that's longer than most people in the world have ever lived. Frankly, I think it's a waste of time for any individual to plan on extending his lifetime much past that point; some of us get to live past 90, but it's a matter of luck. My dad lived to be 84 and the last day of his life, he went shopping and did part of the London Times crossword (he'd finished the one from the previous day!) and then he died in his sleep: looking back, I think he did the right thing pretty much all his life. Of course, both my parents had siblings who died as children, so you could say they were the survivors.

By the way, the senior members of our naturist hiking group are in their mid-80s and they're great-grandparents.

Being of mature years (but not so mature as to have forgotten everything) one remembers this cartoon (by Charles Addams, no less):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28291527/thwy.jpg
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 06:01:25 PM by John P »

ric

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #385 on: December 07, 2016, 06:11:30 PM »
my father believed diet and supplements would keep him healthy and let him live longer... he died at 89 after a year in a home with dementia, 10 years of heart problems, 2 replacement hips. prostrate surgery.... to be honest the last ten years were crap but he was still taking enough pills to rattle and eating all sorts of wierd alledgedly healthy foods.

jbeegoode

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #386 on: December 07, 2016, 11:51:30 PM »
Oh Nuduke...Everything that I have discovered, and dug deeper into and experienced over the last, umm, 15 years has made sense. Each, I took with a grain of salt, until something began to change my opinion. There certainly are trends and most "diets" fall to the wayside, but some things have proven true for, say cancers and diabetes, then when the same medicine, or intake begins to help other maladies. That's a trend.

People who get most of the old age stuff have spent years getting to it. I can see them around. I can also experience how different my chosen changes have made me feel and my reactions. Many options are difficult to maintain, much of the options are being repressed by the pill and surgery industries. These industries are headed by ruthless people, corrupt and in control. It is all about making a buck for the investors by a CEO. Ethics are simply not relevant to the bottomline, which makes the pirate ethic CEO rich and transfering every few years to the next fiduciary responsibility. The old story of the tobacco industry is just the tip of the iceberg, a now, bigger than ever, more entrenched iceberg. Reading what you wrote just reminds me of the propaganda lines and common perspectives that are fed to the medical establishment, like our local well meaning doctors. Ask yourself, where does your doctor get his/her information, who do they trust, and how deeply do they dig and refute it, when they say, "here, take this pill." A doctor gets just a couple of hours on nutrition.

I look at what is common among pockets of people who live longer and healthier. I look, for example, at the results of curing diabetes, with a diet that happens to be showing to be a cure for other maladies like Parkinson's and dementia, with research now not just pointing to, but showing dramatic results. But then, I don't strictly follow the diet guru. All evidence and common sense helps my opinion. I feel that I am getting younger. My health is dramatically different from when I lived a more common diet and lifestyle. There are attitudes, or personalities common among groups of people with various diseases. When I know that 85 year old people commonly run 25 miles to town, and wonder how, it can only be that no one ever told them that they couldn't and that has been the lifestyle. I've studied the psychology of belief from all over the world and now I'm seeing my findings becoming more mainstream, heck even National Geographic had an article about this month. Belief actually changes genetic material. Then there is the issue of cooking nutrients out and fresh quality.

I don't know what you are getting where you live, but here we are given pretty veggies, from tired nearly dead soil, propped up by an very simplified nutrient system. It is completely different food from Joe Supermarket to organic proper soil. Most people are eating processed garbage. When I go to the airport and wait for DF, it is astonishing to see the majority as unhealthy people and know exactly why they are that way. These things are being caused, obviously, by diet and exercise, lifestyle, stress. The American diet is a testament to the body's adaptive ability to get by malnourished and survive.

I see poor logic in that many "diets" have had X results and therefore any diet is not only suspect, but likely BS.

As for cancer, there is much more to it than the medical establishment lets us know. There is particular statistical evidence. There are numerous alternatives, and preventions. You took a certain path to deal with it and it could disrupt that for me to punch a hole in the dam. I won't comment on it. Healthy people get cancer you say. I have to ask you to define healthy.

"I think several generations will have gone by before we understand the sort of diet and the forms of exercise that will reliably, repeatably make things like dementia, arthritis and perhaps even cancer a thing of the past but I am reasonably confident that in 100-200 years time our successors will look back and see where we have come in preventative 'medicine' for longevity in the same way as we look back and see the progress in understanding the treatment and avoidance of infection, ensuring good public health and the ability to fix disease through operations and drugs." I feel like I am that person who you refer, but I'm alive right now. I don't expect anyone here to believe me from this writing, but I'll bet I get to say, "told ya so." I have a vision of these future people looking at us and seeing how we use operations and drugs like we see medieval leeches.

AS FOR THE SMOKEY SWEAT!!!!! ::) The smoke goes up the shoot. There is no smoke, but if there was, then I would be more concerned about being more immediately having my longevity cut short from the carbon-monoxide. We could just go to sleep and die. The sauna has been a health aide and spiritual and social event in an area where there is great health generally. The pores open, the body reacts to hot and cold, like a good aerobic stint will help it. No pain, no gain, without so much pain. There is much science about the effects on health and the body. There is a great deal also from the industry. We tend to drink water during the sweat process. It is just part of the deal. Loss of moisture (did I spell that correctly? ??? ;)) is akin to running, or climbing hills on a warm day, you just drink water. We are supposed to be able to do things like that to hunt game, to scramble from enemies.

People figured it out eons ago. The traditional Native American sweat is a particularly ritualized occasion. The rocks are heated outside in fire, then forked into the enclosure where water is poured on them for heat and steam. No poisons. It is very good for illness. It helps fever and performs like fever.

Bacteria die in the heat. You start to feel light headed, or nauseous, you get out, you've had too much for the moment. Usually 15 minutes three or four times, sometimes longer. It depends on the heat and how you feel. The body regenerates after a cleanse. When it get too uncomfortable, people tend to take a break, naturally. It reinforces the notion of naked body health. Doing sauna with clothing on makes no common sense.

If the corporations and theologist get out of the way, I too, have no doubt that they will look back and see us as nutjobs in clothing. I'm banking on sooner. I'm looking for and working toward that, to see that by the time I reach my ripe old age...correction, BEFORE my ripe old age. My reasoning is that nude obviously is more healthy, it just makes sense. We will have a time when it is no big deal to see, or be seen, naked for any purpose. Then, it needs to become fashionable...swimming gear goes first....
Jbee


« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 11:53:42 PM by jbeegoode »
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Greenbare Woods

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #387 on: December 08, 2016, 12:15:20 AM »
If all those "health" plans really worked and really did prevent cancer, etc., then a lot fewer people would be dying.

I recall a few years ago there was a popular health magazine called "Prevention."   Its articles were always touting "healthy" diets, vitamins, supplements, exercise, etc.  It promised that its readers could live much longer by doing all those things.

One day the founding editor of Prevention was on the Dick Cavett Show, a late nite TV feature in those days.  The editor explained to Dick how his diet and exercise program would allow him to live a very long time, probably decades longer than Mr. Cavett.  He was just finished making that explanation when he had heart failure and fell over dead on the stage.   It was live TV with a studio audience and everyone was stunned.  Nobody moved.  Finally Dick gathered his thoughts and said, "Is there a doctor in the house." 

I've heard that kind of malarkey all my life.  I don't want to belittle everyone's beliefs about "healthy" diets but I've seen and heard it all. 

Bob
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jbeegoode

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #388 on: December 08, 2016, 07:32:45 AM »
Somebody comes up with a new twist every day. It is impossible to have seen it all! It's a s--t storm!

I'd love to see that episode. Maybe it is on youtube. It is weird for Cavett to make light, but I suppose that he was very stunned at the time. I can see him now, legs crossed immobile, looking around, and saying that off the top of his head.

This brings us to Mr. Cavett's relationship to this website. About twenty years ago while building my house,  I had a part time job driving people to and from the airport to the many Tucson resorts. Mr. Cavett was one of the numerous celebrities I drove for Canyon Ranch. He was with some woman and sat in the back seat of the transport van, no other passengers. I watched in the rearview mirror and realized that he was taking off his clothing in stealth. He did a secret naturist prank looking to impress or entertain the girl, all the time keeping that subdued deadpan smirk expression of his, like nothing was unusual.

Canyon Ranch is an expensive health and also fat farm resort, priding itself on being on the cutting edge of the latest health/diet insights for a price that would give a regular person a heart attack.
Jbee
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nudewalker

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Re: How was your month for Free Range Naturism?
« Reply #389 on: December 08, 2016, 05:33:26 PM »
So now after the canyon ranch discussion Jbee we're back to JohnGw's post of the doctor saying "Be rich" to have longevity? The only thing I ever took away from "Prevention magazine" was the exercise regimens. As for the topic however, so far this month there has been no free range activity. Cold, rain and dreary and even with the sun yesterday it struggled to get above freezing when factoring the wind. Had to clear out a section of the garage to open the treadmill for use!
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson