Author Topic: People who've given up washing  (Read 999 times)

jbeegoode

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2019, 06:43:09 PM »
Languages always changes from place to place, from time to time and sometimes back, or a new meaning. Hand has the definition noun or verb, like give me a hand, hand me that hammer, or your hand just got smashed. Naturist is getting a changing treatment, as its usage is among various groups of people.

I use it to distinguish from merely nude, to nude in a natural setting and didn't make it up, but acquired it years ago from someones idea of its popular meaning. I also stretch the meaning more personally, but not exclusively, to mean worship in nature instead of worshiping nature and even that is blurry.

I'd like to keep my definitions, but I have no control over it, when a non-nudist hears the term and applies his simplistic notion of nudism and assumes that both are interchangeable. Soon the whole of us are popularly using the two terms as though they have the same meaning. Soon, we have lost definition and have to add explanation to what a single word previously would suffice to say. We just can't own a word, it would seem.

I do find that if I say that I am a "naturist, not just a nudist" that it will make others stop to think, what I am saying. They will apply what they know, the word nature with the context nudity and put the two together, arriving at a inconclusive, but more accurate idea of my proclivity and practice. That has often worked for me. It has also brought the other to ask for clarity and there is meaningful discussion brought out.

I do prefer JOhnGw's definition over all. ;)
Jbee
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jbeegoode

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2019, 06:51:13 PM »
Bluetrain, I do think that you hit upon something there about the laundry. People who sleep in clothing in heat will keep a particular smell in their clothing. When smelly clothing is taken off, the body airs out after a while.

There are however, continual humid heat situations in which people will acquire a BO and that is most often in the armpit area and where similar glands are located. Again some glands smell for a purpose.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2019, 08:58:44 PM »
I remember a sign on the blackboard in one of my junior high school health classes: bad breath is better than no breath. Or was it halitosis? I don't remember a lot from school and I definitely don't remember anything else from "Health." I remember taking showers after gym in junior high and high school but I don't remember either needing one or using soap (natural or otherwise). I understand that kids don't take showers in school these days.

On the various terms we've been discussing here in this thread, I think I should mention that I've never really had the occasion to use any of them--except here. But if I were talking to, shall we say, a lay person, if I said I was a nudist, they would immediately know what I was talking about. Probably not so much with naturist. There might be some question as to whether or not I actually was a nudist or not, but that's a different story. If I said, though, on the other hand, that I was a hillbilly, they would also immediately understand what I meant and all I'd have to do to prove it would be to open my mouth, although it would help (according to my wife) if I spent a few minutes talking to someone from back home ('down home') to freshen up my accent. As it is, a few are aware of my nude proclivities, such as they have been, but it isn't such an important part of my life that I spend time spreading the gospel of nudity.

jbeegoode

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2019, 09:57:00 PM »
Language is for communication, first. Vocabulary, accent and perspectives may differ, but the all contribute to the purpose and more effective interrelationships. Even these silly little symbols  :o >:( ;D.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2019, 11:04:31 PM »
True enough and there's non-verbal communication, too, such as body language and facial expressions as well as, for some people, hand gestures (nothing vulgar, mind you). And in on-line messaging like this, that's all missing. But I don't think anyone talks the same as they might write, unless they're giving a speech, maybe.

Accent is a real variable. Some people would discount anything spoken by someone with a strong Southern or Appalachian accent as well as a few others, which is unfortunate and is prejudice of the worst kind. This sort of thing is hardly limited to American English. I believe it occurs in most languages to some extent (depending on the number of speakers). Besides that, some accents are simply difficult to understand for someone who did not grow up speaking that particular dialect. My late mother-in-law was Lynchburg, Virginia, and grew up in a private boy's boarding school where both her parents were employed. I'm not from that far away, in the very southern tip of West Virginia but I often had trouble understand all of her words. When you're among those that you grew up with--unless you've lived elsewhere for decades--you don't hear an accent.

Also, I have often heard people exaggerate their accent, too, mostly for humorous effect. I wonder if I do that without realizing it?

jbeegoode

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2019, 11:22:39 PM »
People adapt accent to the person to whom the conversation is with. It is partly a tribal/club thing, I suppose. I watch white people speaking with a black person with an accent and soon, they white is speaking with that black accent. Hispanic and southern accents have people doing the same thing.

People here will speak Spanglish and bond over that. Teenagers will create slang among themselves. Much of these come out subconsciously, but is very common. Even when writing, I have many voices, intellectual, conversational, etc., some conscious, some just comes out, sometimes with whim.

It all can help a communication.

 Academic speech can be so ivory tower stuck up. I would say that clothing and culture are used the same way, a controlling way.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2019, 01:27:53 AM »
I suppose adapting your speech, including your accent, to the circumstances is second nature. But some people speak in such a way so as to confuse others. In other words, their intent is not communicate what they're saying but something else. I think this is typical in the tech world of computers and programming. They have their own vocabulary and slang, although that's true in other fields of work. By academic speech, I assume you are referring to research papers and books written by scientists and academics, especially in the soft sciences.

If clothes control us or if clothes are used to control us, it isn't clear to me how that is happening, Likewise, culture. Culture is whatever we are. It isn't created somewhere else and forced on us, although there are plenty of cases of a culture being imposed on someone else's culture and that has nothing to do with culture wars. When any sort of control is being exercised, it is at a very low level. And it isn't the clothes that are controlling but rather they are the manifestation of control being exercised. Take the Amish, for instance.

The Amish, Mennonites, Hutterites and similar small societies generally wear distinctive clothing, the distinction being that the clothing is plain, more or less. It is decidedly old-fashioned and the only variation to speak of is winter and summer clothing. There is also a clear delineation of male and female clothing, although not so much young and old. The clothing itself has no controlling function. The community is the controlling function and the elders make the rules. There is an underlying premise behind the clothing they wear (as with the beards--but no mustaches--for the men). It is possible, I suppose, for the wearing of plain clothes to be an attempt to eliminate a lot of un-Christian behavior in the community such as vanity, greed and so on by the use of plain, unfashionable clothing. But they sort of get stuck in time, too. The Mennonites originated in the 16th century but they sure don't wear clothes like that today.

Perhaps a better example of clothing as a control factor is uniforms for school children. The idea is largely the same, to eliminate vanity, greed and jealously among school kids who might otherwise get too involved with fads and fashions. In a sense, school uniforms are to avoid having clothing be significant to the students. These analogies don't hold true for the military and police, neither of which are beyond the influence of fashion.

Did you ever notice that in so-called primitive cultures, meaning tribal societies, it is often the case that everyone is dressed exactly the same, save for the male and female differences? I don't think there is a control factor present but rather an identify factor. There is a strong and natural urge to identify with the tribe. I think that this urge is sometimes frustrated in larger, more developed and more mobile societies, though it certainly happens. Of course, at the same time, all of these things can happen without an individual being aware of it. We may not all have the same psychological needs.

ric

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2019, 09:51:16 AM »
.  And yes, Ric, word meanings change and yes, I agree, naturist is a synonym for nudist,

after asking for others opinions i think you should read them more carefully. nowhere did i say that naturist is a synonym for nudist.  in fact i have posted how i think they are different and refer to different attitudes and motivations for what to a casual observer might appear to be similar behaviour...

i would go further but im off for the weekend and the other half has just announced shes ready to go. no doubt this thread will have moved on to something else by the time i get back to it next week.

BlueTrain

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2019, 11:20:36 AM »
On the idea of living in a warm and humid environment, such as a tropical rainforest, previously called a jungle, it may be possible that the long time inhabitants of the area (the natives) do not perspire as much as more recent immigrants (the colonists). Or so I have seen it claimed. There is a certain amount of acclimatization that happens with humans, some of which is probably psychological. But given that among the different rain forests, loosely defined, around the world, how people are different and how they react to the climate is so different, it's difficult to make hard and fast statements. One might think that, for instance, that a hot and humid climate would logically result in people wearing next to nothing in the way of clothing. But that is not the case and seems to be limited to only what might be called primitive cultures. The only two examples I can think of are those who live in the Amazon area (who developers have been trying to eradicate, same as we did with the Indians) and in Borneo. Others, though, manage with thin clothing and apparently do not suffer for it. It's worth mentioning that a hot and humid climate (or hot and dry) can have cold weather, too. At any rate, people have been living in all climates since prehistory and thriving, too.

jbeegoode

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2019, 09:00:49 PM »
My experiences with the Amazon show it to be a multi-climate forest, depending on latitude, rains, seasons, a gully, the size of the local river, or up on a hill. It can be as varied as say Virginia in the summer, those hot sticky spots more near the coast, or a shady creek in the hills and quite comfortable. It can be hot as Arkansas when the sun beats down. It isn't a desert dry heat. The coasts of South America are oppressively humid and hot, without a sea breeze. Clothing makes no sense and wasn't used except decoration and identity. Many tribes decorated with tattoos and screw the clothing.

Most peoples, were naked in the warmer areas of the planet, or still dress very light. Primitive peoples, have been surviving well for longer than civilization, or modernization. We're destroying the world and making ourselves stress. We're exploiting each other. There is no sustainable harmony with nature. We are away from nature and don't understand it. We're often more ignorant in this world that those that live a "primitive" lifestyle, which is often very abundant.

I just looked up "primitive" in the dictionary. It is obvious who wrote the definition and they are high and mighty fools.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2019, 10:01:56 PM »
Nobody I'm thinking of would like to be called primitive (as used thus far) and they aren't. Nor are they as simple as is sometimes believed. I'm thinking of people I have actually known. I've known a few South Americans but they weren't Amazonians, although one was in fact Brazilian. The people I'm thinking of would be called backwoodsmen, although they would all have resented that term. They understood nature but would not have understood a suggestion that they were apart from nature. But they did not think about things like that. They just lived their lives as best as they could, hoping that nature didn't ruin things for the season. It might be that nature (Mother Nature?) is a little friendlier in some parts of the world than it is in others.

Abundance? Well, maybe, in good years. Sustainable? Absolutely. A good life? Sometimes, not always. An easy life? Not hardly. A peaceful life, in harmony with nature? Sometimes, sometimes not. Primitive or civilized? By whose standards? Just a few decades out of date in some ways, in others, up to the minute. They lived where they were born and that was that. They never compared their life with anyone else's life, especially halfway around the world.

nuduke

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2019, 11:31:15 PM »

Quote
...and there's non-verbal communication, too, such as body language and facial expressions as well as, for some people, hand gestures (nothing vulgar, mind you). And in on-line messaging like this, that's all missing. But I don't think anyone talks the same as they might write, unless they're giving a speech, maybe.
Very true, Blue Train.  Its a bit of a handicap not having any facial expressions and hand gestures to clarify and enrich what we say here.

John

BlueTrain

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Re: People who've given up washing
« Reply #87 on: September 07, 2019, 12:31:52 AM »
It might be a good thing, too.