Author Topic: Nudes in the news  (Read 131438 times)

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #90 on: October 16, 2015, 06:44:44 PM »
Wall AND ceiling paper.

I haven't opened a Playboy in decades. It was at the cutting edge of a social revolution, even a leadership role. Then it produced an expose too political for the changing power in 1980. Losses were cut and they huddled into a safer apolitical hedonistic mode merely presenting a model of excesses.

You can get only so much mileage out of excesses. I still could identify with it, for several years. I got into fatherhood and monogamy, like Hef. I continued to identify with it. Then, he discovered that the new "best recreational drug ever" Viagra and the old guy is pictured in bed with three models, the kid toys were out of the ballroom. But, how do you get the younger next gen into that image?

There is a problem now. There are images and every manner of...well, the internet, BUT there is little brass tack how to have a healthy sex life for young people of both sexes. Playboy used to provide that, the king of that. I haven't been past the cover in 25 years, and even that has been kept from us here, off the magazine stand. Our society could use another Playbook. There is a younger gen out there who haven't a clue.They might need another leader and icon like Hef to give them information. Young people have hedonistic hiphop videos that don't have articles to read, nor substance.

I welcome the end of the idealized female body. More and more, I see changes from the Playboy body. Body style has changed from MM bomb boobs, to thinner, to now Big butt can be in. Still there is so much exposure in the media that many body types are being accepted as idealized. Women are much much less objectified. Their role in society has expanded and they are addressed as people everyday, as friends and equals, not those stats on the back page of the foldout. The article talked about art and people enjoying the nude body through time. Look at the rest of this website and we find two people who are real and as they are. There is expression and context and that is art. That's a big change from brush-marks on some fantasy of the girl next door.

We can't know what has happened in the decision rooms at Playboy Enterprises. A woman heading a men's mag poorly, a team of both sexes, or who knows how to exploit male hormones better than a woman. I have picked up that Hef has kept abreast and participated nonstop to varying degrees, all of these years. Has anyone here actually been between the pages in the last twenty years?

Mostly, I find things as two headed. Body acceptance and body freedom would not be where it is today without Playboy breaking the mold that came before it. There is still more work to do and breaking out of the problematic pieces of the old Playboy mold is necessary, and apparently taking care of itself.
Jus'sayin'
Jbee


   

 
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nuduke

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2015, 12:48:47 AM »
Well, 2 substantial responses to add here - serves me right for being away for nearly 5 days!  Must be a record.  Sorry chaps, I have been so busy with new house and bedding into new community that haven't had much time for recreational time online! 

So, first:  Walgreens ad.  What makes this a positive contribution is, I think, 2 factors:- 1) the positive depiction of older women and 2) about 0.5 seconds of it where you see the women's faces as they decide to go on the nude beach and their expressions are not ones of 'oooer!' Carry-On film-style prurience or indecision.  They just know it's the right thing to do and have no hesitation in going naked and running on to the beach indicating enthusiasm - in fact their sarongs throughout might suggest that they were intending to go to the nude beach.  They are also I think, a depiction of modern seniors who are not afraid to follow their inclinations.  Hooray for Walgreens.  I dare say that the ad had a lot of discussion before it was made!

Second:  Playboy:  Obviously the magazine feels it can compete in the world of magazines without the nudes.  In this day and age, I agree with them. I think that the depiction of female beauty in that sexually titillating way has passed on.  In it's heyday the magazine content was no doubt read after it's 'primary purpose' had been employed.  Even in the 60's Playboy and Penthouse were quite an anodyne style of representation of female nudes, marketing their style on the combination of hypocritical provision of serious articles and content, but existing principally because of the airbrushed, soft focus, soft porn content (in contrast to the more raunchy or sexually suggestive content of other 'top shelf' magazines, where the editorial content was entirely lacking!).

Whilst I can align with Jbee's indication that the emergence of the modern mass circulation porn industry, in whose vanguard Playboy and the like appeared, created an up-front, non-clandestine view of nudity depicted for sexual titillation, and thus brought some aspects of nudity into public consciousness and acceptance of their normality, I nevertheless have to roundly disagree with Jbee's comment: 
Quote
Body acceptance and body freedom would not be where it is today without Playboy breaking the mold
  I feel that the contribution of the 'glamour' magazines surely has been quite the reverse.  Playboy and publications of that ilk always connoted nudity with sexual titillation and, as such, probably cemented the opinions of millions that nudity was to be avoided and hated because of those connotations.  Additionally the men's magazines were so called because that's what they were!  The epitome of the male gaze - the objectification of idealised female bodies depicted and projected in ways that created appreciation in a sexual way by men and therefore tended to alienate women.  Playboy and it's concomitant men's' clubs, bunnies, Heffner the pyjama-clad, lothario stud etc., in my opinion must have set back by at least a generation the cause of neutral and positive body acceptance, that allows naturism to be acceptable for its healthy and non-sexual nature.  The positive images of the Walgreens advert are but a small shovelful of clearance of the foetid heap of prurient negativity about nudity that the men's magazines and the porn industry in general have deposited on life's highway.

I agree though with jbee's observation that the modern porn industry, churning out huge amounts of naked bodies cavorting in all manner of congress, does not perhaps project the singular view of nudity that Playboy and it's ilk did and does.  Accessibly, on the web, there is such a huge amount of depiction of nakedness and bodies of all sorts, in apparently consensual sexual circumstances, that it seems to me, as an occasional student of the genre (hem hem!), that the nakedness becomes simply a normal and natural part of such depictions and nudity becomes an accessory detached somewhat from the connotation of sexual taboo. 

John


nudewalker

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #92 on: October 18, 2015, 04:07:22 PM »
Just a few more observations concerning the week's activity here. It was noted on another forum I frequent but am not a member that we should patronize Walgreens to the point of writing the CEO to thank him for the positive commercial. Perhaps a spike in sales would convince others that nudists are a viable market and would make others follow suit? Might I ad that a snowball effect could open up more avenues for nude recreation?

Second, the idea of Playboy dropping nudes is in some way related to the Chinese market and the prudish censorship the government has there? Just putting it out there as a thought; not that I have anything to base it on. As Linda Richmond used to say, "Talk among yourselves, I'll give you a topic".
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #93 on: October 18, 2015, 08:49:35 PM »
In response to Nuduke. I'm looking at playboy as planting the very  basic ideas "party naked" and "sex good." This appealed to both sexes. I never met a woman other than a hard core feminist that objected to Playboy. They were interested, it was fun. Idealized beauty was always pushed everywhere else, even women's mags. These two basic ideas, I'm saying, were like two steps in the right direction and one back, give or take. Playboy just really led a couple of generations to lighten up. It was a much more sick, repressed, unhealthy society before that influence. Now, we have to deal with the damage caused by the medication (Playboy).

I think that I'll write Walgreens encouragement and thanks.

Playboy used to have tailored publications to each region and different countries. Maybe they are still doing that with the Chinese?
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nuduke

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #94 on: October 19, 2015, 12:56:06 AM »
Ok, jbee
I get your wider picture and that does seem like a reasonably balanced view.  It does seem that, in your experience and society of the time, the acceptance of Playboy content was more emancipated than in the UK in the 60's and 70's. 

Whilst porn magazines were on controlled open sale in the UK at that time (top shelf out of reach of children), they were not considered nice nor appealing to other than men and indeed men who read them furtively and were assumed to use them as an aid to masturbation.  This was a very prevalent view and one of the tenets of the women's movement arising in the 70's was the desire to limit or expunge the exploitative view of women that these magazines promulgated and fed to male readers. 

I think it's less so nowadays but as you indicate, jbee, the appearance of Playboy and the like was a symptom of a positively changing and emancipating attitude to sex, yet like many innovations only went so far and, as you say, as a vector of that societal change, the men's magazines left some repairs to be done.  A parallel, I guess, would to consider how industries used to be dangerous to work in and left waste and contamination, yet brought advances in technology, and over time have realised their dirty, dangerous legacy and have gradually cleaned themselves up and become safer to work in. We are still in the second phase with the legacy of the men's magazines, I opine.

John

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Peter S

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2015, 06:26:07 AM »
Another case of a free ranger being spotted -and condemned by the plod. This time it was on British Naturism's doorstep and they're fighting back.

From the Northampton Chronicle:

A naturism group has criticised a police force for saying walking naked along a bridlepath in Northamptonshire was “obviously unacceptable behaviour”.


Officers received several reports recently of a man walking along a path near the Bedfordshire border naked.

PC Katherine Hardy, from Bedfordshire Police, said: “This is obviously unacceptable behaviour and I would urge anyone with information to contact us.”

However, deputy campaign director for British Naturism, Juliette Gill, said the comment was “totally inappropriate”.

“Being naked is not illegal in England and Wales and the Crown Prosecution Service’s own guidelines state that unless there is a sexual context or the public were actually caused harassment, alarm and distress legal action will not normally be taken.

“We don’t know the intent of the man concerned in this report. However, for PC Hardy to advise that it was obviously unacceptable behaviour without knowing the circumstances seems totally inappropriate.

“We have a presumption in this country that someone is innocent until proven guilty and that principle does not appear to have applied here.”

Ms Gill said the matter was going to be raised with the police by the organisation.

British Naturism has its headquarters in Northampton.

“We promote nudity as a social, healthy and wholesome lifestyle for individuals and families and campaign for public acceptance and the right to be naked outdoors,” she added.

“Are we really harming anyone by enjoying our lifestyle?”
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Bob Knows

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2015, 02:54:59 PM »
Good for the British naturist group.   Public pressure on the plods is long overdue.   Demanding rights is a very good move.

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nudewalker

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #97 on: October 20, 2015, 05:40:20 PM »
Just a quick follow up concerning the Walgreen's ad. I viewed it this morning while watching the Today Show and thought I'd check the link again. As of this morning it had a 92% to 8% favorable rating along with 1 comment out of 7 being negative.  My letter has gone to the CEO of Walgreens for support and kudos to the ad team. To me nudity goes a long way toward being happy and healthy!
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2015, 08:57:06 PM »
I always cringe when I hear the word "appropriate." It is so subjective, arbitrary, and often empty generalization. Good for BN, but they need to up their level of discourse from the level of the haughty, ignorant cop. I know that they can do that. Perhaps they were attempting to be reasonable instead of calling a spade a spade, like "totally illegal" or "totally fascist" or " totally offensive."
Jus' sayin'
Jbee
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Bob Knows

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #99 on: October 20, 2015, 10:09:13 PM »
You are right jbee.  BN is taking a step in the right direction but is hedging words and not being as aggressive as they easily could be in promoting acceptance of nude rambling.
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Peter S

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #100 on: October 21, 2015, 06:29:03 AM »
Ash, but hedging our words and bumbling around the subject is the British way, donchaknow! Politeness at all times, old bean. 😳
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jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #101 on: October 21, 2015, 07:44:33 PM »
Ash, but hedging our words and bumbling around the subject is the British way, donchaknow! Politeness at all times, old bean. 😳

That’s what I suspected. I grew up with that impression of the society of the isles. Where else could a bobbie patrol the streets and never carry a gun. Yet these days, I get mixed signals. There is the home of the Sex Pistols, Tony Balir, cantankerous examples of discourse on the BBC comedy shows, and fascist tactics by law enforcement that rival and team with the CIA, NSA. It is difficult to know if polite still exist as it once did, from the outside.

Fighting for something, where there are two diverse adversaries and one has declared a war against the other, one would be scrambling for the higher ground, readying for the coming engagement.  A firm and direct stance, a puffing out of the chest, stiff lipped response, placing the other on the defensive and drawing a line. She has made a public announcement in many more words explaining her organizations purpose, position and intent. I would think, “inappropriate” which can mean anything depending on a whim, thereby holding no water, could be replaced by, “ over reaching”” illegal” or kabang “irresponsible.”  The cop is acting like some kind of cowboy yahoo old west and making up his own laws, like some kind of autocratic little king…how’s about “outrageous.” The officer’s statement and intent is “shockingly outrageous” an “alarming overreach” “threatening everyone’s liberty.”

Perhaps he is considered the problem and to whom resolution will begin and end with. He sounds like one of those authorities who when threatened, immediately feel that they are cornered and over react with more overreach to maintain their position of perceived power. Sometimes it is better to offer candy to these people, rather than trying to coax the distrusting thing out of a corner. Perhaps the battle should be chosen and she has had her say. She certainly did a great job, stating BN position. It is amazing that she was quoted so rigorously. Here in USA, she would have used up WAY too many soundbites for our news media. Her points would never have been printed like that, but edited down by a reporter who hasn’t a clue. Here, if you want to be heard, you have to do a lot of bluster. Perhaps there is a political component, where the public discourse is different from the actuality.

I have been thinking of going to the county, or directly to the police department as an organization, although I probably will never find the time past the ponder stage. The idea is that nudity laws are stated as they are and need to be enforced as that. There is ignorance, abusing the intent of the law, by assumptive individual police officers. There needs to be an education for them. A training among their many other trainings and briefings.  There needs to be a policy statement, or guidelines for them. This would help to protect merely nude people from the potential and fear of devastating potential problems.

I would like to hear more about how this process unfolds. It would shed light on just how to, and how not to work with police departments. How do you get appointments, communicate through bureaucracy, of channels, procedures and busy (or not busy) people who could give a sh…?

To me, "appropriate" no longer is.
Jbee
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nuduke

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #102 on: October 25, 2015, 10:05:17 PM »
I also applaud the BN response.  I wonder what the original 'offense' was?  What was the accused doing.  Probably just doing SN like us and was unlucky.

Quote from: nudewalker
To me nudity goes a long way toward being happy and healthy!
Well said, Nudewalker - a lot of truth there

Quote from: jbee
I always cringe when I hear the word "appropriate." It is so subjective, arbitrary, and often empty generalization.
  Ho ho, If you only knew how many times in corporate life I've dissembled and wriggled and escaped by using that word - the 'A' word! If you don't know how much, how often, how far or just how, then commitment to the 'Appropriate' effort/response/resource is your get out of jail card! ;D

Quote from: jbee
Where else could a bobbie patrol the streets and never carry a gun.
Whilst it is still moderately unusual to see armed police in the UK, it is becoming more frequent.  Twice in recent months in London I have encountered officers with automatic rifles and tazers hanging from their kevlar body armour (they weren't after me specifically, you understand!).  Last week at a main London rail station, having been passed by three armed officers, I asked a member of staff if there was something going on.  He replied that this was entirely routine and the armed police patrolled frequently. 

John

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #103 on: October 27, 2015, 03:22:39 AM »
Quote from: jbee
I always cringe when I hear the word "appropriate." It is so subjective, arbitrary, and often empty generalization.
  Ho ho, If you only knew how many times in corporate life I've dissembled and wriggled and escaped by using that word - the 'A' word! If you don't know how much, how often, how far or just how, then commitment to the 'Appropriate' effort/response/resource is your get out of jail card! ;D

Quote from: jbee
Where else could a bobbie patrol the streets and never carry a gun.
Whilst it is still moderately unusual to see armed police in the UK, it is becoming more frequent.  Twice in recent months in London I have encountered officers with automatic rifles and tazers hanging from their kevlar body armour (they weren't after me specifically, you understand!).  Last week at a main London rail station, having been passed by three armed officers, I asked a member of staff if there was something going on.  He replied that this was entirely routine and the armed police patrolled frequently. 

John

The A word, well put.

Perhaps the militarized police are there to show people that the politicians are doing something to keep them safe from terrorists, as if a show of force might actually stop it? It is good to know that unarmed police are the common encounter.

Here, they are all out to intimidate, or expecting a need for a gun.
Jbee

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John P

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #104 on: October 27, 2015, 02:55:47 PM »
The officer’s statement and intent is “shockingly outrageous” an “alarming overreach” “threatening everyone’s liberty.”

Perhaps he is considered the problem and to whom resolution will begin and end with. He sounds like one of those authorities who when threatened, immediately feel that they are cornered and over react with more overreach to maintain their position of perceived power.

Note that in this case, "he" should be "she". And the things people think should be said in response! Fascist, good heavens, do we know no history? Far from invoking il Duce, what the police officer said was also typically British--"This is obviously unacceptable behaviour".  But it's true, "inappropriate" is a weasel word, a way to speak while saying nothing; it's too bad the BN spokeswoman had to say that. In response, Juliette Gill could have said, "Constable Hardy is putting her own judgement here in place of established law. We've heard nothing that makes this man's actions illegal, and the police should inform the public of that, rather than claiming that there's a problem with entirely legal conduct. We encourage people to use their legal rights, and we'll tell anyone that encountering someone naked is nothing to worry about."

I'm not really familiar with BN's policies, but I've heard people claim that BN is too strongly linked with clubs and resorts and doesn't concern itself with naturism in public places. If that's BN's past policy, it's good to hear someone from the organization supporting an individual who's enjoying some "free range naturism".
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 02:59:13 PM by John P »