Author Topic: Nudes in the news  (Read 133189 times)

JOhnGw

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #120 on: November 14, 2015, 10:58:57 AM »
Yes, Bob - the media do like a good freak out.
JOhn

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nudewalker

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #121 on: November 14, 2015, 04:54:33 PM »
Yes, Bob - the media do like a good freak out.

The media tries to make us freak out. Or in at least what they think will sell papers, magazines or get air time. I did notice Miley's pictures were pixilated on Bob's link but I have seen them uncensored elsewhere. Honestly, at first I thought her actions were attention getters but now think that she's much like us. She hates to wear clothes, just more open about it.

Not to change the subject much, there has been a wave of sexting or sending nude pictures among teens here that has been making the rounds of the news. Out of my curiosity, does the same type of thing exist in Europe. With the more relaxed attitudes over there is it seen as a problem as it is here? or is it considered just a normal part of growing up? This might not be phrased quite right but hope it's understood.
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

Davie

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #122 on: November 14, 2015, 05:23:07 PM »
Sexting exists in Europe and there have been some daft over-reactions by the Police. One young teenager texted a picture of himself to his girl friend who passed it on. He was had up by the Police. Had he been over age there would have been no offence, so he was cautioned for sending indecent images of himself. She was treated as a victim. Again had she been over age she would have been guilty of revenge porn. The Police were subject to some criticism for trying to criminalise a youngster making a juvenile mistake. In fact the Police were brought into it by the school who interviewed him in a way that was against the laws of natural justice. They should have acted in a pastoral way but the problem is failing to report suspicions of offences against children is also an offence. We are just as mad here as the rest of the world.

Davie  8)

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #123 on: November 14, 2015, 07:58:31 PM »
Celeb Miley Cyrus goes naked and freaks out the conservative media, who still run the photos.  http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/has-miley-taken-her-nudity-too-far-this-time-photos/

In my opinion the more naked bodies are shown in media, any media, the more common it becomes for the public to see naked bodies.  Good for the celebs who push nudity.
To add to that, she does these things to get attention and rich, so the context isn't so good. There was some faceboof thing that asked something like,"Do we want this for a role model for our children?" Even though this is exploitative, it makes simply exposing a nude human body seem more tame. It shows the grey boundaries where simple nudity begins to get more toward obscene. First she was nude on a wrecking ball and now she is doing something with sex toys and her tongue, etc. It teaches that the simple nudity on the wrecking ball becomes more tame and expected/accepted.

I like the way the she is not a big breast, bleach blonde, eye makeup, Barbie cutie. Her style sucks to me, but her body style is very human, giving the female audience a break in what they must measure up to and body acceptance.

There is a flashing montage of photos in there. As they went through, I thought that I saw, full frontal, then, "Yep, that IS full frontal." "Well I'll be....," I thought. "Good for her. Not all of the celebs would do that!" It showed to me an attitude of "here it is, a body part like all of the rest of it. Go ahead and look" Then this thing pops up with big black stars in strategic places. I thought, "Here we go again." Still, I think that the kids will find the naked one on the net and be taught that there is foolishness in the black stars.

Here youth are being shown that body parts don't have to be taboo and talking about these things, owning these things, exploring these things isn't out of bounds. In the sexual revolution of my youth, talking and trying things was healthy. Eventually, we toned down and settled in a more natural balance. Eventually that wrecking ball stops swinging, you slide off and just stand there naked and calm, as yourself, instead of a reaction to the sick culture. Culture is like a body. It needs to stretch and then goes back to a calm stance, healthier for the action. It learns from the radicals, the avante guarde, the outrageous.

Thomas Jefferson said that a revolution is good every once in awhile. I think Myley Circus is in that spirit. I think Thomas Jefferson is getting ready to crawl out of his grave saying, "Now wait a minute Jbee, that's not exactly what I was discussing there!" ;D
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« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 08:11:09 PM by jbeegoode »
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John P

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #124 on: November 14, 2015, 10:49:51 PM »
I claim that it's very important for naturists to recognize and state when nudity is being shown for erotic or sensationalistic reasons, versus when it's happening for fun, or just as a part of ordinary life. And we can point to the times (almost always!) when it's not nudity in general that's on display, but particular attractive young women who are involved. Oddly enough, or not so oddly at all, that's the same demographic group that usually appears in pornography: we should be challenging people about whether that's a coincidence.

As for Thomas Jefferson, if he reappeared now he might find Miley Cyrus less interesting than Rihanna.

(Reference to Sally Hemings, if anyone needs a hint.)

Bob Knows

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #125 on: November 14, 2015, 11:32:04 PM »
I claim that it's very important for naturists to recognize and state when nudity is being shown for erotic or sensationalistic reasons,

I partly agree with you John.   Nudity is only sensationalist because its rare.  The more often nude people are shown the less rare it gets.  If they keep doing it for sensationalist or other reasons it won't be long before nudity is no longer sensational  -- and we will have won. 

Its kind of like Playboy magazine.  When they started out their simple and non-erotic nudity was very sensational.   Soon it became mild compared to other magazines like Hustler who focused on female crotches.  And by now Playboy no longer even bothers because a simple naked female is not sensational enough to sell magazines. 

Now we are seeing big name female celebs appearing naked for extra publicity, and that hardly raises an eyebrow.  Children are busy sending naked photos to each other, copying the celebs.   Naked photos are not a big deal.  Being seen naked isn't much of a big deal to most people either.

The more the better.


Quote
versus when it's happening for fun, or just as a part of ordinary life.

Personally I practice naturism as part of my ordinary life.  I don't get nudism as a vacation from ordinary life at some nudist resort.   Being naked needs to be part of ordinary life, and the more common it is for ordinary people to see naked humans (for whatever reason) the more ordinary life it becomes.   The exception may be for porn shots that are obviously not ordinary, and equate nudity with sexual deviancy.


Quote
As for Thomas Jefferson, if he reappeared now he might find Miley Cyrus less interesting than Rihanna.
(Reference to Sally Hemings, if anyone needs a hint.)

Or, Ben Franklin might enjoy her company on his morning naked walks through the city.

Bob
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jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #126 on: November 15, 2015, 08:37:36 PM »
I claim that it's very important for naturists to recognize and state when nudity is being shown for erotic or sensationalistic reasons, versus when it's happening for fun, or just as a part of ordinary life. And we can point to the times (almost always!) when it's not nudity in general that's on display, but particular attractive young women who are involved. Oddly enough, or not so oddly at all, that's the same demographic group that usually appears in pornography: we should be challenging people about whether that's a coincidence.

As for Thomas Jefferson, if he reappeared now he might find Miley Cyrus less interesting than Rihanna.

(Reference to Sally Hemings, if anyone needs a hint.)
Considering that he had six children with his wife, we might not see mister frisky discriminating between the two. Sally, a mulatto daughter of his wife Martha's father and mulatto slave, was 3/4 white, described as "fair" with long hair down her back and he had probably six kids with her, all after he lost his love Martha. It makes me wonder if she was a slave just for appearances sake (she 3/4 and her children passed for white, all were eventually freed) or what kind of thing and thinking was going on.

It was fairly common in the south to find generally passable women from relationships with slave owners. It was discretely accepted for widowers like Jefferson. The Dragoon Ball in New Orleans (I never looked deeper, but wonder if it was the accented Dragon Ball, anyone know?) placed eligible women of this mixture, who had been freed (white slave progeny might embarrass amongst the other black slaves blowing the discretion like a red flag, white slaves undermined the black slave system, or white enough to not deserve slavery ie. inferior, or some owner guy's loved daughter) with white gentlemen. It was held each year. Remember, it was a time where women were extremely restricted and socially vulnerable. Dang, social acceptability has sure changed.

Circus' behavior and haughty, unbridled attitude would probably turn the respectable Jefferson on end. He may have enjoyed her light build, as that was his wife, and Hemings was as young as his daughter when that relationship began. I don't know much about Rianna's act. I looked her up on wiki.

I love TJ. I think that I may have read everything he wrote. All off topic, sorry.
Jbee
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JOhnGw

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #127 on: November 16, 2015, 08:11:14 AM »
On no evidence whatsoever, I have always assumed that while the majority of slaves were overworked menials the full spectrum of treatment ranged from total abuse to honoured member of the family circle.
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #128 on: November 16, 2015, 11:49:11 PM »
I suppose that we have never discussed the relationship of nudity and slavery and the effect it has had on the current attitudes of textiles.

I spent about eight of my first twelve years in the south in the Virginia area. I remember separate water fountains, swimming pools and school. I remember black men stepping into the gutter waiting for my mother and me to pass on a broad sidewalk and the pains of the shift during the civil rights era. There were many southerners feeling unjust criticism of the slave owners, their ancestors and Southern heritage. One of my grade school teachers stated that most of the owners treated their slaves with kindness and humanity. There was a spectrum of course.

We must remember that most people do like to think of themselves as nice, reasonable, good, not unkind and correct and act that way. People also grow up with other values and perceptions of belief and these seem perfectly acceptable to them. In the old South and true for every part of the world, at one time or another, slavery was just the status quo with no wrong. In the South, Black people were believed to be an inferior race. Dogs and cattle were believed to be inferior to humanity, also. Some dogs are smarter, friendlier, better at certain tasks, etc. Just think how many different ways dogs are treated and the reasoning. Now, ponder how many ways could one treat a slave? It is similar behavior, just a being that was born with similar characteristic to its master.
Taking freedom and exploiting others, I believe is a bad action. Yet, I can forgive people who are products of their environment in other places and times. They just don’t know any better and accept what is. In this world today, we have imperialistic abuses, class opinions of higher and lower, racism, oppressions of women, and what amounts to slavery in control. The whole thing is generally driven in ignorance by people who don’t think of themselves as bad, but good, mostly. Then without denial there are a few psychopaths at the top and damaged criminals pop up everywhere.

So, we have been with slavery forever. In the institution, one loses everything, having nothing but what is given temporarily, totally controlled. The ancient Mediterranean cultures often kept slaves undressed for various reasons. The statement of have wealth is a tool of acceptance into the society of the have wealth. It suggests success. If you want to get richer you hang with the same with the same goals. You don’t dress like a slave, or the have littles. Wearing nice adornments impresses others and impresses one’s self. It builds confidence. When one becomes dependent on this, loss of it feels naked, identity is shaken, fear arises even thinking about being unclothed to others. They push young kids into uniforms and try to indoctrinate them into the trap of “dress for success.” It seems that people will wear ANYTHING to get laid, or make a buck…or both.

Slaves have no control, no clothing, nothing, even given a name. That is what we are up against, when living in a world of manipulation. Nudity and naked, in degree, have been associated with these connotations.
 
I read last week that the Swedish business model nearly requires that it be conducted in a sauna, nude. The Romans had bath houses, much the way business is done over lunch, cocktail parties, or golf courses. I suspect that ‘ol Lyndon Johnson had this in mind when he coaxed visitors to skinnydip in the White House pool. He may have wanted to get them to relax and trust and to be less formal. We would come a long way, if business, relaxation and trust would connote with nudity like the Swedes.  Now, with so many women in the mix, that adds new barriers to the textile world’s adaption.
 
With all of this in mind and the topic, how about John Lennon’s quote:  “The main hangup in the world today is hypocrisy and insecurity. If people can’t face up to the fact of other people being naked or smoking pot, or whatever they want to do, then we’re never going to get anywhere. People have got to become aware that it’s none of their business and that being nude is not obscene. Being ourselves is what’s important. If everyone practiced being themselves instead of pretending to be what they aren’t, there would be peace.”

  http://articles.absoluteelsewhere.net/Articles/lennon_nudity.html

As they say, ya gotta keep tearing away at the very fabric of society.

We are on topic…ta da!
Jbee
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 12:55:53 AM by jbeegoode »
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John P

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #129 on: November 17, 2015, 12:02:21 AM »
I don't accept that Playboy magazine's nudity was ever non-erotic. Within the limits of the day, it was quite erotic enough for many of the readers, but once stronger stuff became available, they went where they could get it. Now Playboy is trying to find a new image. I'm almost willing to wish them success.

Unfortunately, I think the vast majority of the nudity that most people encounter is intended to be erotic, whether it's the pop stars twerking (What is that, anyway? No, don't tell me) or the kids sexting. Far from getting everyone used to nudity, it's reinforcing over and over again the idea that nudity is a sexual thing. At least we middle-aged guys have the memory of getting unabashedly naked in the locker room! Now the young people are complaining about "old guys waving their bodies around" as if it were obscene--which to young people, it pretty much is. The possibility that nudity would ever become totally mundane is very far away, and I don't think we're getting closer to it. If you can point to any increased acceptance of ordinary people being naked, please tell us. Not this or that showbiz babe.

What I recall reading about Benjamin Franklin was that he advocated "air baths" where he would sit naked by an open window. If he got out in the streets of Philadelphia nude (Ben was a free-range naturist!) it's new to me.

If someone wants to talk about slavery, how about starting a new topic?

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #130 on: November 17, 2015, 12:54:28 AM »

If someone wants to talk about slavery, how about starting a new topic?
But I thought that John Lennon himself coming out of the grave, tied the whole slavery issue into the context of celebrity nudity? The article presents him as advocating egalitarianism, related to casual nudity and body acceptance. It is about exploitation and taking away others freedoms. The legacy of nudity from slavery is only the segue.

Not to mention the contrast from the celebrity stuff that we are presented with today. How about his celebrity nudity still standing in a totally new media 36 years later. Will Miley Curcus, or Madonna still have that in 3O or 40 years? Back in the day, they did Miley Circus and got clobbered with rejection. They even put their bodies out with all of the honest flaws to be clobbered for that. 
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #131 on: November 17, 2015, 01:12:59 AM »
Having sex/kids/relationships with slaves is/was/and always will be, abuse. The "owner" is taking advantage of their power over another person. It cannot be viewed any other way.

I'll warrant LBJ did that, not because he preferred nudity, but because he knew it put the other in an awkward position. He was a master manipulator and majority whip. He could sell sand to a Bedouin.

Duane


jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #132 on: November 17, 2015, 01:58:51 AM »
True about LBJ. He sure got things done in those six years. Too bad a part of that was selling millions of us into standing in the middle of a war 550,000 at a time. He did have a handle on having his way, like driving 90 and drinking in Johnson County as he pleased. I’d speculate that it was exploitation of the psychological principles of the nude encounter groups that he was playing people with. Or maybe, he was just sick and tired of being ”Mr. President” to everyone and just longed to rebel a little bit, shaking it out of who he was with…coupled with alcohol. We’ll never know.  Still, I’d bet that when he was alone, he didn’t bother with swimming trunks.
 
Like Jimmy Carter displaying his bare feet on the desk, it is helpful for the authority figurehead to be more human, or risk getting disassociated from others and himself. In my memory, most celebrities that I ever interacted with, appreciated me not treating them as a celebrity.
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #133 on: November 17, 2015, 07:14:51 AM »
For everything I disliked about the man, he knew where he was from and never tried to pretend he was what he wasn't. You have to admire that. What you saw was what you got.

You are right, jbee. He almost single handed created the Civil Rights legislation of the '60's because he was from the South and he knew how those guys in the South, curiously mostly Democrats, ticked. He seldom gets the credit for that.

High stress work can make you want to kick the traces off. No doubt.

Duane

Bob Knows

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #134 on: November 17, 2015, 03:02:47 PM »
I'll warrant LBJ did that, not because he preferred nudity, but because he knew it put the other in an awkward position. He was a master manipulator and majority whip. He could sell sand to a Bedouin.
Duane


If it weren't for LBJ's coup d'etat take over of the American government he would not have been so well remembered.   He's a glaring example of the tyranny of government and media. 

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