Is Naturism in Decline?

[nudewalker]

Is naturism in decline? Well, the only two people that I know that are or were members of a resort style campground have left or are contemplating not renewing their membership. In the latter case of renewing or not it seems promises were made concerning facility upgrades which have not been done so the cost/benefit ratio is in place here. Besides becoming less of a family oriented and more old folks home feel. As I have only visited once I can't really comment, and I have nothing to compare it to except other textile places we have stayed. Is the additional cost worth being able to walk about freely in the nude? With my limited fixed income and current lifestyle I'd have to say no.

Which brings us to the younger generation and their take. For all that the information age has given it has also taken away. As Jbee mentioned the place for information and gathering should be here yet if you try and search terms such as naturism what does one find? And would the younger generation even understand what naturism is without some type of education. And then there is social media; where unknowns hide behind the keyboards to either body shame or prey on the unsuspecting. 

"It is still important for people to have a solid place to experiment hands-on in. A level of comfort needs to be learned. They need to know and project that naked people are nice people, safe people. That's what the early clubs tried to project as an image to attract people and gain acceptance.
Jbee"

It reminds me of the old college days of "Bare Ass Beach" where it was a known nude area, much beer was consumed, stuff was smoked and there was safety in numbers. A low cost day use spot with swimming, hiking and sunning would be perfect but I'm sure liability issues and insurance would make that difficult to do.

[eyesup]

In a way it's a good trend.

If nudity is part of the younger culture yet they don't pursue organized groups, that could imply they have accepted it as normal as going to a pizza parlor. People don't join organized groups to go eat pizza. Do they?

My kids say they are hanging out when we ask what is happening. If today young people are doing no more than hanging out, whatever that implies, and they happen to be nude, then it has moved beyond something they think needs special attention or treatment.

That is good. It has for those involved, become normal.

Duane

[nudewalker]

This could be interesting. A phone call from the acquantice asking for assistance to move their RV out of the nudist campground they have been in for a number of years. Details when we do the move, first a few things need dismantled such as a deck and storage deck. So it looks as if I'll be busy the next few days. So it's either going to be an addition to the thread here or perhaps a trip report however it plays out. Or both!

[Greenbare Woods]

I saw this article today.   

Naturism booms in France as young eager to ditch clothes

Published: 13 Jun 2016 15:44 GMT+02:00
Updated: 13 Jun 2016 15:44 GMT+02:00
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Why are more and more people, especially the young, opting to get naked in France? Hattie Ditton finds out more.

    Brits urged to come to France and get naked (13 Apr 16)

The term "naturist" may conjure up the image of jolly elderly hikers walking bare-bottomed clutching hiking sticks - but it might be time to update the stereotype.
 
Indeed, over the past three years, the phenomenon has begun to attract a younger audience according to the the FNN (French Federation of Naturism), seeing many more young families showing up to camps with their children.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160613/young-french-naturists-spark-boom-in-nudism

[jbeegoode]

The past three years there has been the influx and the cultural clashes of muslim peoples. The murders of the cartoonist and then a pair of horrific terrorist events, and the calls to war, are in many ways similar to our 911 trauma's reactions. Having grown up in relative peace at home, I can identify with the behavior of questioning and desire for peace. I came of age in the late 60's, a  time of war  and cultural clash and questioned totally everything. The environmental concerns tend to get people thinking about their own health, the planet's health, and teaching their children these values. My generation saw incredible pollution for profit, trash on the roadways, urban sprawl, worship of Science and Technology,  increasing dehumanization in institutions and mechanization. We looked to our nature, our past, our humanity, a peaceful environment and "teach your children well." So, many of us went skinydippin', the embodiment of freedom and the antithesis to our concerns.

The article states the associations of peace, community, or conviviality, nature and health. The young French have grown up in a war-less socialist environment and now, corporate influence on politicians are working to take much of it away. They are questioning that. Having grown up in affluence, we were faced with having our freedoms taken by a draft and sent to war, we questioned that. This makes sense. Freedom is appreciated, planet and nature is appreciated, much more when it is threatened. Woohoo, for the French kids and their families.

Those ARE HUGE numbers, in a short time. That means a trend in a significant percentage of the rest of the population, too. There must be a wave of related behaviors and attitude accompanying this. These are the more stable, family youth. What could be happening with those less stable and free? AND you all know that once they bite the fruit of the naturist tree, they will be hooked. It will carry out into the rest of the culture.
Jbee

[eyesup]

Jacques Freeman, the head of communication at APNEL (Association for the Promotion of Naturism in Liberty) believes that young people are gaining confidence in speaking out against authority on all levels and this is a reason for the increase in naturists.

“Nudity is synonymous with freedom," he told The Local.

“We're currently at a time where there are many questions being asked about the future, work and problems surrounding integration into society are being challenged by young people."

I wonder whether this trend is a direct reaction to the effects of immigrants causing a shift in the culture with regard to the rights of the individual. When a government begins to issue edicts about how people should be dressed it can be alarming.

Combine that with the extreme actions of newcomers because they don't like how the residents of their new home behave and you end up with a pushback that may be intended to counteract the cultural censorship by the minority.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

You picked out precisely the points that I was referring to, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what you meant by your comments.

The gendarmes can be very authoritarian. There is also a civil rights curtailment in France, people respond to that stuff not unlike the hysteria after 911. There it is like a Marshal law and the government has extended these extreme powers. I've read that it is being widely used to stifle political descent, as well as anti- terrorist actions. So, police-state action gets reciprocated as reaction, fueling a general questioning of authority in all matters and many people look for release and at least some kind of expression of freedom where they find it.
Jbee

[eyesup]

I am all for people moving to a new country to start a NEW life. Not to bring their old life to the new country and attempt to recreate the very thing they claim to be fleeing. That in itself is misguided. I am aware that many are not CHOOSING a new country or life. They are choosing to survive a brutal conflict. I understand that. But at the same time if you decide  to not fight for your life and heritage but to leave, that is a choice to go toward change.

One would think that an immigrant chose the new home because they admired the people and government of the new country. In many places in Europe this is not the case. The new residents are trying to create in the new what they yearned for in the old. That is a recipe for conflict. If you disagree with the culture and government of your new home then pick a different destination.

To enter a new place is to embrace the culture and people of the new home. If you want to live there be prepared to deal with new ideas and behaviors. If you want to dress as you did in "the old country", do so, but don't demand the world be remade in your image. If you are going to try to recreate the old life, that old life will follow you and force you to move gain. Pick a place and prepare to engage with changes about to happen in your life.

When this sort of activity begins to happen in a modern country, the residents will resent being dragged backward in time and culture. They will resent having foreign concepts shoved down their throat. An opposition to that effort may present itself in just the way we are seeing in some places in Europe.

My attempt was to ask the question that the new trend toward naturism was one born out of a backlash at the heavy hand of the government to kow-tow to a minority that is demanding compliance with a culture not native to the new country. Government attempts to placate those that have already rejected the new culture should be met with opposition.

The people that have lived and created the society have a priority over some groups of new and entirely likely, temporary residents. If the new arrivals cannot accept that, offer to send on to newer locales.

Is that a better statement?

Duane

[jbeegoode]

I get ya, now.

I have often thought of moving to another place or migrating each year, for bodies of water, retirement, adventure in life. I'd still be a citizen of this country and infused with another culture. I always have considered my naturism. In every place, there has been an enclave of ex-patriots that like to retain some of their ways, be it speaking some English, or sharing comminality. I don't see a problem with that. If I were to stay and take political action, I would be crass to do that without being a citizen. I enjoy, Mexican, American, French, Ethiopian, Indian, restaurants, all run by...we are all immigrants here. My home is filled with appreciation for various styles and cultures. I don't have issues with the various ways that people dress and decorate themselves, and their racial background, just treat me the same. If this wasn't the case, then this couldn't be a free country, and it still isn't.

I don't think that culture should be thrust on others. I know that there is nearly always some assimilation and adaptation. That's how I have a home laced with appreciation of other cultures.

I look at alternatives and consider the sameness of some ways there. What would I be willing to give up from home? How could I fit in there? I know that my dollars can go further in many places and in fact give me even more opportunity than a business here. This has been home, but even more, something that I have roots and rights to. The reason l have lived here is the constitutional freedom. Most of that has been eroded away, to the point that I can get this about anywhere. But there are religious, spiritual, freedoms and attitudes and much of the bill of rights that is currently intact to a degree. If you go to this country, or France for economic reasons, who needs you? Looking to citizenship, you need to know the Bill of Rights and believe and be ready to die on those values. Otherwise, if a repressive, authoritative, intolerant way is yours, then head east to Indonesia, or any other muslim country. Who would want opportunist taking advantage of the system?

So I don't particularly respect the French policies of not allowing head scarves in schools, and those outlandish burkinis on the beach. I don't respect cultural traits calling itself religion. I don't respect treating women as anything but equal under the law. I don't care to have more fundamentalist to contend with, after years of getting this general culture less repressed, because of other fundamentalists shoving their religion and sick morality down everyone's throat.

The only reason that these people are choosing to come to Europe and the Americas is economic, if they just don't get the tolerance thing. They are not heading to Africa in mass, or to Southeast Asia in mass. No other countries would tolerate people breaking and disrespecting their laws to hang out.

Isn't that the country where "Vive la différence" came from?
Jbee

 

[eyesup]

Oui!

Duane

[BlueTrain]

I hope it not too lake to comment in this thread.

Many of the comments have touched on the supposed decline in nudism. I think there are overriding trends that have made the biggest differences.  Speaking only of the United States, I don't think immigration has anything to do with it. Today's immigrants are no different from previous immigrants; they just come from different places. And they face exactly the same attitudes mentioned here that previous waves of immigrants faced from those whose immigrant ancestors came just a couple of generations earlier.

If the 1950s and early 1960s were ever the golden age of nudism, I suppose that's what we would compare things to today. It isn't as clear if you make comparisons to the 1970s and 1980s. So what are the differences, then?

Younger people, which is who we're really talking about, don't join things the way their grandparents did. Perhaps their parents didn't, either. That would pretty much include me. We've always belonged to a swim club and a church. Our two kids, both in the 30s, don't. That all might be part of the so-called "bowling along" culture. It would take a book to explain that and someone else already wrote it. Our grandparents may have complained that nobody goes out dancing anymore, either, and it would be true. There was a time when every hotel with any pretensions had a house dance band. Then came television.

But for outdoor nudity, there are opportunities that didn't exist in the 1950s. There are a few official and a few unofficial but tolerated nude beaches in the country. There were none that I know of in the 1950s. I think there used to be more but from what I understand, a few people who didn't know that sex has nothing to do with nudity and vice versa spoiled it for the rest and they were either shut down or declared adult-only. I also understand that some old-type clubs tended towards a more permissive atmosphere, no doubt because that's what the members wanted. But there were other factors.

The older clubs could be plain and primitive. That won't fly these days with those who expect more. Fancier places that are basically vacation destinations get the nudist dollar these days. And there are destinations, chiefly in the Caribbean, that also cater to nudist and clothing optional vacations. They advertise. The older clubs flew under the radar.

Numbers are always suspect but I also think the younger set is less philosophically oriented towards nudism than practitioners in the 1950 and even less so than those of earlier decades. There are no such discussions here, at least, beyond people claiming how clothes are unnatural. As an argument for nudism or naturism, that's pretty weak. It doesn't follow, of course, that the arguments in 1910 were much stronger and they had much more to overcome in their arguments. Yet, in places, they had better success. The curious thing is, when I've brought up the subject with acquaintances who were German, they always laugh. One reminded me that the current politically correct term is "free body culture." But that was 40 years ago. I wonder what the term was 40 years before that?

You may think that we have less freedom than we used to but from what I see with my own two eyes, there is more tolerance now than ever. Maybe I think that way because a few people I knew when I was little were free with their hateful attitudes. There is no way of putting it in gentler terms.

[jaybirdsen]

I think it is partly a generational thing and merely transitional.  As young people unless you are born into the naturist lifestyle it is sometimes hard to find or explore.  Most young people now days are too busy trying to get started to think much about naturism.  Its too bad yet it is always that way.  I always had a yen to be nude in nature yet it was not until my mid thirties that I had both the money and time to truly explore nude adventures on a regular basis.

Forgetting all my thoughts here.. yet when I visit Blacks Beach there are all always young people there and I am a member of true nudists and there are always young people signing up for that.  It may be that tech will have to merge with naturism a bit more yet that seems somewhat an oxymoron to me. 
I also read alot about young people with post tech syndrome ditching the social media and moving out of cities to more rural areas.  I'm sure naturism will naturally follow for some.

It is true that most rural nude resorts are way dated and in serious need of upgrades.  It doesn't bother me yet for younger people it probably is noticed.

[eyesup]

I remember living in Houston back in the 70's and 80's and becoming interested in the naked lifestyle. I even did a little research, pre internet days, but I was very busy at the time and just never got around to it.

Maybe you are right.

Duane

[BlueTrain]

Moving from the city to a rural area is naturism, in a sense, even if it doesn't involve nudity, social or otherwise. It may be superficial, though, if one drives into the city everyday to work. Depending on how far you drive, that could be worse than staying in the city.

Towns, however, small towns, that is, are in a different category, I think. The lifestyle of small towns can be so different from the city--the big city--that makes it more like rural living than the city. Or so I would imagine. I grew up in a small town but I haven't lived in one for over 40 years. They've changed a little since then. Some small towns have become surrounded by the outer suburbs of large cities with all the problems of suburban life, insofar as there are any.

I do agree that when you're young and free, you might be involved in a lot of activities, as I was, that consume all your spare time. In theory, that should not mitigate against a "naked lifestyle." But nudism probably shouldn't be seen as an activity but maybe as a way of thinking. Just don't overthink it.

There has always been a generational thing and everything is always in transition.

[eyesup]

". . . nudism probably shouldn't be seen as an activity but maybe as a way of thinking. Just don't overthink it.

Yep, I have learned that!

Duane