Winter is here!

[Greenbare Woods]

We are having daily high temperatures above freezing for the first time since early December.  Our two feet of snow cover is starting to show a few bare spots.   The forecasters say it may get up to 40F (4C) by next week.  YAHOO!   

My bare feet manage the frozen ground for a few minutes, but deep snow makes me put on boots.  I'm tired of parking down at the county road and using a 4x4 with 4 chains to climb our driveway.   I want to go out bare in the sunshine again.   Bad case of winter blahs. 

[reubenT]

OH I've been interested in steam power ever since I visited a guy who had traction engines in Rossville GA in the late 70's.  But haven't done much with it.   That's fixing to change I think.   I studied the subject back then,  and a lot more in the last 10 years.  But now I'm gaining the equipment to do it all, from scrap metal to final working machines.    so might as well go for it.   Have collected many books on foundry work and machining,  several on steam engine design, gets down to all the technical details.    My goal is wood fired trucks and tractors for woods and garden work.   No reproductions,  just practical stuff,  fast firing water tube boilers and 4x4 for everything, since our land is anything but level.   And running them naked will be the way to go when ever I'm up there alone to process wood,  or tend the growing crops I plan on doing after I get the land cleared.    The "new"  old machining equipment coming my way has inspired me to go ahead with it and make it happen.        Since my planned work has been delayed due to bad weather,  today I pulled out an old water heater from my junk yard and started turning it into a cupola furnace.   Already have a larger one but I need a small one to play with to perfect technique and make small parts.     Melting iron and pouring castings for engine parts is really pretty simple stuff,  but everything has to be set up just right to make it happen. 

[John P]

Are people OK with this thread turning into a discussion of steam engines and similar obsolete technology?

Well, having "a little knowledge" here, I will say--steam isn't used in vehicles any more for the simple reason that it's woefully inefficient. A steam engine has a miserable power-to-weight or power-to-volume ratio, solid fuel has poor energy density compared to oil or gasoline, and a steam vehicle has to carry a large volume of water, which will be boiled off in operation and which will affect the vehicle weight as it's used, which has effects on available hauling power and adhesion weight. And apart from all that, the kind of steam engine that can be afforded by an individual is thermodynamically very inefficient. In practical terms, it means that far too much useful heat goes up the smokestack or out of the cylinders as spent steam. Internal combustion engines conquered the world because they are just plain better. Maybe electric vehicles are about to take over, but steam isn't coming back.

Oh, and danger. There are various ways a steam engine can kill you, which is why a steam boiler has to be rigorously inspected. Back in 2001, a steam traction engine exploded and killed 5 people, and injured a whole lot more. Do you want to be in charge of a machine that can do that?
http://www.farmcollector.com/steam-engines/tragedy-at-medina-county-fairgrounds.aspx

I have to admit though, I do know the guy who owns the steamroller, and I've ridden on it and it was fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF8JJ1q5gCI

But given that winter is here, you can sit by a steam boiler and stay toasty warm. They do have some advantages.

[nuduke]

John P,

Whilst the efficiency and safety stuff you trot out is perfectly correct, remarks of this nature hold no respect or indeed awe or recognition for the incredible steam technology of our immediate ancestors that built the physical and practical foundations of industry, public infrastructure and society that shapes our world today. 
If Boulton and Watt had not provisioned industry with hitherto unimagined power and capability, our manufactures of today might still have the technology of the 18th century.  If Parsons hadn't sought a more efficient use of steam from the reciprocating engines you deprecate, John P, we would never have had the steam turbine and therefore modern electricity generation and long distance shipping capabilities may never have come about.

The projects of restoration and reconstruction of our steam heritage that strong and dedicated men achieve (Like ReubenT) recognise and remember both the contribution of those 18th and 19th century engineers and the wonderful fascination that arises from the deployment of coal and water and iron in the creation of fire, steam, motion and naked power that is the soul of a steam engine whether it be a child's toy or a 3-storey steel mill rolling engine.

Had not cheap oil been discovered in the USA, the internal combustion engine arguably would never have gained the dirty, polluting stranglehold it has achieved of the world's mechanical power provision.  Had the internal combustion engine not been invented then I am absolutely sure that our human ingenuity would have developed the steam engine into an efficient, streamlined, clean and universal source of all the same sorts of power.  Turbines and rotatory units would have flourished and who knows, cleaner, greener cheaper electrical generation methods and traction may have been developed in the stead of being in the thrall of the finite resources of fossil fuel to which we have become so enamoured.

I am happy on this occasion to digress and topic-drift in celebration of steam - the true power - and to encourage reubenT's efforts with construction of one of these magnificent machines and to see if he might post the odd photo of his machinery and the progress of his project.  It will not displace any of our naturism chat - merely add to it as Reuben will be occupied in his hobby as naked as possible, I am sure.

Hurrah for steam!

John
'A' Level Engineering grade B and erstwhile steam engine constructor at 1/8th scale! Also possessor of well-developed sense of humour

[reubenT]

That's for sure,  might help me work naked in colder weather having a warm boiler to sit next to.        Oh it has some disadvantages.  the primary one being convenience of startup that made the IC engine take over.     Took a whole day to get a steam locomotive warmed up,   just a few minutes for a big diesel.    But by the time the steam loco went out,  efficiency figures were quite high.   I think it was a tea cup of water and 2 ounces of coal for every ton mile.    And they're only good for those who like em,  if ya don't like em you'll hate em.     Same for horses.  People who love them love riding and working them,   but many who used them because they had to, quit just as soon as they could.     Boiler safety was improving and new designs were coming in that were much safer and much faster to fire up.   Like 10-20 minutes instead of hours.    I like super safe,  so I build em to handle way more than they ever will and then have double pressure relief.   A relief valve that pops at maximum operating pressure and a soft plug that blows at a little more than that,  which is still way below test pressure.      The one big advantage I'm after is allowing me to keep producing food no matter what petroleum does.   Price may be low now but we can be sure it won't stay down forever.
     
Yup!  Winter is here.   What better way to pass the time of cold than fooling with stuff in the shop and getting things ready to farm better.   And I seem to resemble the typical man who enjoys mechanical things and building fires,  why not make the fire do some work for me?  Blow a steam whistle and spin a flywheel.      Guess we're about to the middle of the winter now,  the temperature seems to lag the solar cycle by 3-4 weeks.    Weather prophets say we're going to get warmer next week.    Maybe low 60's.   

    I heard the complete report of that latest boiler explosion of an old engine.   And comments from fellow steamers.   It was something that didn't need to happen.   Very careless operators and also careless event managers who allowed them in.  It was an engine that should have been condemned to non running status due to poor boiler condition,  there were people who knew it and didn't act.    It was the stupid owners who were the victims, along with some who were too close.      Some guys on the steam traction engine forum knew the engine,  their description of what the boiler was like would have made me scared to put a fire in it.    If it had been my machine I'd strip the insides out and build a high pressure safe water tube boiler into it.  (rebuilding the fire tube boiler would be very expensive)  It would work great and look the same on the outside.   But that wouldn't feel right to the antique preservationists.    Some people just don't have good judgment,   put the wrong combination together and catastrophes can happen.     Sometimes ego suppresses good judgment.    Forget the ego,   be safe instead.     Or with a boiler like that cranking the relief valve back to half the usual PSI would have been a safety move that could have been done.   They could have still run it at the show at reduced power and been safe.       g'nite,  I better get some naked sleep.

[John P]

Sorry to have got people's safety valves hissing there, but steam engines disappeared for good practical reasons. I won't deny that they're still fun to see and hear and smell, though.

Think of the experience that people could have, where you'd ride a steam-powered train down to a dock, and there waiting for you would be a sailing ship! Or even a steamboat, maybe.

[reubenT]

They are very impractical for the most part for efficiency.  Handling solid fuel is much harder than liquid fuel.   Time is money for the most part.    But I like em.  Don't have to make money with them.   And I like the idea of running on just what I can get in the woods.   And sawing lumber with the slabs for fuel to run the saw.     And even the lubrication could be gotten locally if necessary,  since tallow is the basis for steam cylinder oil.    And there are plenty of cows on neighboring farm,   some still butcher their own.    I could easily swap some good food that I grow for some tallow to oil my tractor.   Oh well.  I'm all for a good bare day in the spring sunshine,  but sorry to say it's a bit too chilly for that yet.  Supposed to hit 60 for a few days though this weekend.  Saturday looks the best,  I'll see if I can get in an afternoon walk and it just might be warm enough to drop everything external. 

[nuduke]

Handling solid fuel is much harder than liquid fuel

Really?  A ton of coal just sits there and waits for a shovel but a ton of oil weighs just as much but runs about all over the place if you leave it on the ground!

John

[Greenbare Woods]

Handling solid fuel is much harder than liquid fuel

Really?  A ton of coal just sits there and waits for a shovel but a ton of oil weighs just as much but runs about all over the place if you leave it on the ground!

John

A ton of coal just sits there until you hire a guy with a shovel to feed the fires.  Then it takes hours of shoveling.  On a large train engine the shovel guy is hard at work all the time.  The ship Titanic had hundreds of workers with shovels, most of whom went down with the ship. 

On another forum there was a discussion today about home heaters that ran on coal.  The task of shoveling coal all winter, starting the fire each morning, feeding it all day, was a constant labor.  Usually for the father or older boys. 

A ton of oil gets a small pump and problem solved. 

[reubenT]

Power handling with pumps and tanks makes liquid easy and fast.  Mechanical handling methods for bulk coal or wood are much harder to come up with,  pretty expensive when they are created,   or a whole lot of manual labor.    compared to a simple cheap pump and metal tank.    Building a fire and waiting for the boiler to build pressure was time consuming every time you wanted to use the tractor.   Turning the key and instant power won people over real fast.      Of course there was incentive on the other side as well,   oil men made money on liquid fuel,   not on coal or wood.   So they'd send sales men around to the sawmills that ran on steam and converted many of them to IC engines.     An old local man I heard talking remembered the times.    Mentioned one sawmiller who refused the IC engines.  he liked his steam engine that ran on byproduct that would otherwise be useless,   wouldn't change over to run on fuel he'd have to buy. 

[Greenbare Woods]

When I was growing up all the sawmills had "TeePee" shaped sawdust burners to get rid of mountains of sawdust.  By about the 1960s the environmentalists banned them because of the smoke.  Some mills still had steam engines that ran on sawdust fired boilers, but the old mills got into trouble with safety inspectors.   The plants usually had one big steam engine which turned shafts running through the whole mill.  Large belts hanging off the shafts would turn saws, loaders, and other machinery.   Every once in a while someone would get caught in the free swinging belts and pulleys, or something would break and come down.  Safety people had a fit about all that rotating and moving open machinery.  Most mills of all kinds were converted to electric motors driving each individual machine.  An internal combustion engine never replaced the steam engine.  The old mills were converted and new mills now come with electric motors. 

[nudewalker]

I have been in a few factories where a large drive shaft suspended from the ceiling drove machinery by belts much as Bob described. During my tour all the belts were enclosed in safety cages so if a belt broke it would not whip around and maim workers. At another steel plant I was able to enjoy the workings of a steam engine that was used to break down ingots of steel into slabs. The steam was supplied by natural gas boilers that also supplied much of the plant.  It was a fantastic piece of industrial design however it was replaced by a continuous slab caster. Many of the replacements were not as imagined as because of being insufficient but deals made with business and governments. It was once reported that a local city near me was given money by the oil companys to replace their electric trolley system with busses.

[reubenT]

winter has subsided once again and naked hiking has begun.   60's for the last couple days.

[Greenbare Woods]

winter has subsided once again and naked hiking has begun.   60's for the last couple days.

That sounds great.  We got to 40F (4-5C ) a few days and our snow cover melted.  I went outside twice and walked quickly around the house before going back inside.  40F with a cold wind blowing is too cold for me to enjoy. 

February is beginning with more snow.  Our average afternoon high temp this time of year is still high 30s, (3-4C).  The snow today will melt, but it will be a while before its naked outdoor season.

[nuduke]

Well fellows, I'm gobsmacked (in a good way!) by the very serious answers to my totally flippent comment on Oil vs coal.  However, some really interesting reminiscences of power distribution and use of large steam engines.  Enjoyed reading them, chaps. Thanks for posting.
In my youth in industrial Yorkshire, it was not uncommon to see a derelict wool mill being demolished and the titanic, beautiful steam engine being cut up for scrap.
However, there are happily a few preserved steam plants that help us remember the scale and majesty of Victorian engineering practice and problem solving in an age when technology was constantly busting out of its historical limitations, when innovation was king and there was a plentiful supply of poorly paid, exploited, unskilled labourers to shovel the coal!

John