Author Topic: Vermont is still number 1  (Read 6719 times)

John P

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Vermont is still number 1
« on: June 29, 2016, 01:05:22 PM »
http://www.wcax.com/story/32329480/naked-man-spotted-strolling-through-burlington

No police action, and at least some support from people commenting on the article!

That's why our hiking group keeps visiting Vermont, though you won't be meeting us in downtown Burlington.

eyesup

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 04:14:59 PM »
It puzzles me that "news" organizations persist in being the arbiter of morality. The practice of blurring out "offensive" images when the law clearly states that it is NOT illegal is an attempt to protect the sensibilities of people. This is a common tactic nationwide, not just in Vermont.

Why is it necessary to continue the behavior we all remember from our high school days? Giggling at the naughty bits. I suppose something is better than nothing. I did notice that the "reporter" (sic) on the street referred to his activity as "exposing himself", as opposed to "the naked shopper" reference from the news host. More of the moral imperative impinging on the duty of the "free press"?

If the voters allowed this law to stand I am sure most of those that voted in the positive were aware that if a person did, in fact wander about naked, children of the town would eventually see them. If that was going to be a problem, they wouldn't have allowed the ordinance to stand.

Also, I didn't see him carrying a towel. I hope he didn't have a sit down somewhere.  :D

Duane

Peter S

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 04:44:37 PM »
I guess the blurring out is simply taking the safe path. Just as people in the street shriek "what about the children", so the hostile section of newspaper readers/TV viewers will react, and the newspapers and TV programmes dare not alienate their audiences or advertisers. Of course by using the word "naked" in a headline and still showing the pictures with blurred or pixellated bits, they win in both camps.

Such is democracy that even though a majority might be in favour of (or not against) something, the outvoted minority will still make a fuss after the event.

peter
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John P

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 11:09:48 PM »
Oh well, if you expect to get hassles if you don't censor and no hassles if you do censor, and you haven't got much commitment either way, you'll go with what's easier.

Alf

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2016, 03:00:19 PM »
Media bias and media sensibilities are blatantly obvious. For example, here in Canada yesterday, the local media had an outright orgy blush over the visit of the US President and our selfie crazed Prime Minister. Oh, by the way, Enrique Peña Nieto was also visiting. Who will remember that?

So, nudity isn't illegal in Vermont. . .   interesting.

../Alf

eyesup

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2016, 03:44:07 PM »
The more important question, Alf is, who the blazes is Enrique Peña Nieto?

Duane

O.K., I googled him, and your question makes sense.

nudeed

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2016, 01:20:24 AM »
Simple nudity is completely legal in Vermont. You can be nude in almost any area, with the exception of some locals that have passed local ordinances. Those are for a certain area of the town/city generally. Now for the odd part of this, while you can be nude in public, you can't get nude in public.

jbeegoode

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2016, 08:36:37 AM »
It puzzles me that "news" organizations persist in being the arbiter of morality. The practice of blurring out "offensive" images when the law clearly states that it is NOT illegal is an attempt to protect the sensibilities of people. This is a common tactic nationwide, not just in Vermont.

Why is it necessary to continue the behavior we all remember from our high school days? Giggling at the naughty bits. I suppose something is better than nothing. I did notice that the "reporter" (sic) on the street referred to his activity as "exposing himself", as opposed to "the naked shopper" reference from the news host. More of the moral imperative impinging on the duty of the "free press"?

If the voters allowed this law to stand I am sure most of those that voted in the positive were aware that if a person did, in fact wander about naked, children of the town would eventually see them. If that was going to be a problem, they wouldn't have allowed the ordinance to stand.

Also, I didn't see him carrying a towel. I hope he didn't have a sit down somewhere.  :D

Duane
I think that the pixilating has to do with fear of the FCC regulatory repercussions as well as the fear of offending some of the viewers.

Now then,addressing this towel comment. Having been reared in nudist colony rules, ettecite and sensibilities for years, I never questioned the requirement of a towel until recently. I even had a skidmark mishap while scooting out of a van over a sheet years ago. One needs to wash ones ass (Red Fox at 2:00am show in Vegas). It is wise and it is much easier when nude and there is a bide...bidday...one of those French things. BUT, it has recently come to my attention that short skirts have been putting these areas of the body in direct contact with public seating for years! DF has confessed for years that she always wears full underwear with shorter skirts because she doesn't like sitting down on public stuff. Then, I started experimenting with this kilt thing. I immediately discovered in the knee length skirt thing, just how cold vinyl can be. It is difficult to not have these body areas not contact where i sit. The surprise is that all of these women, since 1964, have been putting bare stuff on public places. Those who don't wear underwear might as well be nude. So, how come I'm not finding all of this fecal matter, genital juices, oils and other nasty poisons on furniture everywhere?
Jbee
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Greenbare Woods

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2016, 02:51:53 PM »
Then, I started experimenting with this kilt thing. I immediately discovered in the knee length skirt thing, just how cold vinyl can be. It is difficult to not have these body areas not contact where i sit. The surprise is that all of these women, since 1964, have been putting bare stuff on public places. Those who don't wear underwear might as well be nude. So, how come I'm not finding all of this fecal matter, genital juices, oils and other nasty poisons on furniture everywhere?
Jbee


Good observation, JB.  Sitting bare on a chair is OK as long as it's hidden under a skirt.  Its about fear of our bodies, not about skid marks on the chairs.  OMG!  What if my body touches somewhere that his or her body touched!!

I generally don't sit on towels either.   Getting out after 2 hours in the hot springs or swimming pool and then having to sit on a towel because you are "unclean" makes no sense.   Its about being "unclean" in a religious sense, not about not being clean.   I do have a bidet in my home.  I really miss it when I'm traveling.   Its really hard to be clean on the road.

I enjoyed our visit at VV.   The mosquitoes were intense this year. 

Bob
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nuduke

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2016, 11:49:44 PM »
Quote from: jbee
So, how come I'm not finding all of this fecal matter, genital juices, oils and other nasty poisons on furniture everywhere?
You must look harder, jbee! :D 
You haven't been to our house!   :D :D 
You haven't travelled on Southern Railways in London!  :D :D :D

Seriously,  These things are, of course, imagined.  If you are exuding something from a lower orifice whilst nude by comparison with exuding it into your underpants, swimming costume or even onto a towel isn't going to protect whatever you're sitting on much from faecal bacteria or ickyness.  However, if it's possible that antisocial undesirable exudations can occur, I don't object to the fact that the 'sit on a towel' convention is there as a polite gesture to insure against the risk even if that insurance is more a symbol of sociability than a reality of hygiene. 

However, 'stuff' does get spread about.  In my London commuter days, a 1.5 hour commute with a change of bus and train, when you got home if you washed your hands they were grubby from all the surfaces you had of necessity touched on your journey.

I read NHS guidance that the best way to avoid colds and flu whilst out and about in cities and when you are in contact with other people is not to have masks or take vitamin C but to wash your hands frequently as the principle way viruses get transferred is through touching contaminated surfaces.

Quote from: bob
Getting out after 2 hours in the hot springs or swimming pool and then having to sit on a towel because you are "unclean" makes no sense
I have to agree, there, Bob.  If you've just showered after swimming, the changing room seats and duckboards are probably more contaminated than you are.  As opined above, the 'sit on a towel' etiquette is just that, etiquette rather than practical prevention.

Quote from: bob
I do have a bidet in my home.  I really miss it when I'm traveling.   Its really hard to be clean on the road.
I also heartily agree with that.  I have a little trick in my travelling toilet bag which is a tube of medical, fragrance free, emollient cream(or half a tube in my pocket).  Aqueous Cream works but I prefer Unguentum M or Cetraben.  They come in small tubes 50ml and 100ml for travel. They are not greasy and can be wiped or washed off easily. A small bead on toilet paper is very effective at getting you completely clean and a tube lasts ages.  If I may be allowed to stray into the "Too Much Information" zone (those of a nervous disposition look away now), if the evacuation is soft, 'untidy' or otherwise difficult to wipe off, crouching down, using the aforementioned bead on tissue, but this time with a finger to penetrate the regions where no sun shines, gets me comfortably clean and confident to face the world at large again! Or indeed to sit on anything whilst nude and be confident you aren't transferring anything to the seat.  If the paper's not pristine, I keep going till it is!  Another hygiene thing for me is to shave the hair from my perianal area (the crack!).  I've been doing this for many years now.  I only need to shave the nethers in the shower every couple of weeks and that again means my personal hygiene is very "up front"! Note, I use a lady razor or a multiblade mens disposable.  I have never cut myself shaving there but you have to watch you keep clear of the anus.  Squatting over a suitably positioned hand mirror is useful to guide the aim!

Very frankly yours, :)

John



jbeegoode

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 01:13:10 AM »
An electric shaver might be less dangerous, or a tweezers and patience.

Jbee
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yeldew

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2016, 12:14:43 AM »
John said
I don't object to the fact that the 'sit on a towel' convention is there as a polite gesture to insure against the risk even if that insurance is more a symbol of sociability than a reality of hygiene.

John, be glad you are not yet of an age to worry about accidental bowel leakage!  :)
I can assure you it happens.  :-[

Norman.

Davie

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2016, 09:51:20 AM »
Just try to ensure you don't leak in a pool!  See here

Davie  8)

eyesup

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2016, 07:50:50 PM »
Quote from: Jbee
I think that the pixilating has to do with fear of the FCC regulatory repercussions as well as the fear of offending some of the viewers.

You are probably right, Jbee. Of course the next question is, "How can the FCC hold people accountable, assessing fines, etc., when they haven't broken a law?" That's crazy.

Quote from: Jbee
Now then, addressing this towel comment. Having been reared in nudist colony rules, etiquette and sensibilities for years, I never questioned the requirement of a towel until recently.

. . . it has recently come to my attention that short skirts have been putting these areas of the body in direct contact with public seating for years!

The surprise is that all of these women, since 1964, have been putting bare stuff on public places. Those who don't wear underwear might as well be nude. So, how come I'm not finding all of this fecal matter, genital juices, oils and other nasty poisons on furniture everywhere?

Mainly, you haven't looked close enough. What the potential problem is, is microscopic, i.e. germs.

It is also true that if you haven't had an infection yet, it hasn't been a problem so far. That is not to say that it couldn't be a problem. I think this is a personal choice with a sufficient reason for consideration. If you want to carry a towel and sit on it, do so. If not, so be it. And if someone doesn't want to be around you for that reason, be ready to deal with that too. That would be a perfectly reasonable reaction to inconsiderate behavior.

For me, the practice of carrying a towel and using it this way, is akin to holding the door for someone, saying "Good morning", or any number of other "polite" behaviors that we all do without getting our, "What's the nudist equivalent of shorts?", in a twist. Being considerate certainly shouldn't be viewed as an imposition or burden. If that's your philosophy, maybe you should be living in a cave on a mountain.

Simple courtesy is in short enough supply as it is.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Vermont is still number 1
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2016, 09:02:10 PM »
Quote from: Jbee
I think that the pixilating has to do with fear of the FCC regulatory repercussions as well as the fear of offending some of the viewers.

You are probably right, Jbee. Of course the next question is, "How can the FCC hold people accountable, assessing fines, etc., when they haven't broken a law?" That's crazy.

Quote from: Jbee
Now then, addressing this towel comment. Having been reared in nudist colony rules, etiquette and sensibilities for years, I never questioned the requirement of a towel until recently.

. . . it has recently come to my attention that short skirts have been putting these areas of the body in direct contact with public seating for years!

The surprise is that all of these women, since 1964, have been putting bare stuff on public places. Those who don't wear underwear might as well be nude. So, how come I'm not finding all of this fecal matter, genital juices, oils and other nasty poisons on furniture everywhere?

Mainly, you haven't looked close enough. What the potential problem is, is microscopic, i.e. germs.

It is also true that if you haven't had an infection yet, it hasn't been a problem so far. That is not to say that it couldn't be a problem. I think this is a personal choice with a sufficient reason for consideration. If you want to carry a towel and sit on it, do so. If not, so be it. And if someone doesn't want to be around you for that reason, be ready to deal with that too. That would be a perfectly reasonable reaction to inconsiderate behavior.

For me, the practice of carrying a towel and using it this way, is akin to holding the door for someone, saying "Good morning", or any number of other "polite" behaviors that we all do without getting our, "What's the nudist equivalent of shorts?", in a twist. Being considerate certainly shouldn't be viewed as an imposition or burden. If that's your philosophy, maybe you should be living in a cave on a mountain.

Simple courtesy is in short enough supply as it is.

Duane
FCC would be a Federal law with the licensed broadcaster being held accountable ie. fined. It does conflict a tad because there is no federal nudity law. It is some kind of "community standards" justification, yet here they are blanketing the entire nation with a single assumed community standard, when we are certainly diverse. It comes from olden times when people didn't question government intervention so much, regarding government as an authority with those rights to dictate morality and conformity. All in all, yup, I agree. It's all crazy.

AS for carrying towels and being courteous:

Orient Land trust curiously had no towel rules that usually go with naturist resorts. DF and I tend to sit on towels to protect ourselves. When car camping and bathing is difficult we use sit-down towels for ourselves in our own chairs. In the sweat, we use small sit-down towels. Others just swash water over the wooden seats before sitting. I have provided large towels to sit on for guest in my home in the past. Sitting here on my couch infront of the computer, I always have a large towel across it. It washes and cleans easier than furniture. There are sitting towels all around the house. If I'm not recently cleaned as in showered, bathed, etc., I forgo the towel. Being in warm water as much as out of it at OLT, sit-down bacteria didn't give any concern.

As for being polite, or considerate. I don't consider wearing pants an act of consideration, it in fact often makes those of us uncomfortable when people wear pants around nudes, depending on how well I know them and the situation. I'll sometimes ask for a towel to sit on, if I haven't prepared by my usual carrying a towel around in my car. This often has to do with people who allow their pets to use the same furniture, but I don't say that to them. Experience has shown me that bare sweaty bodies do leave dirty oils which influence the lifetime of cloth furniture, which certainly includes topfree people. In Arizona heat, it is best to practice these courtesies, unless it is a bathing together situation. If you can't bathe properly, racing stripes can happen. It is not polite to leave racing stripes on furnishings. ;D

On the other hand, It is a pain in the butt to have to carry around a towel. A light sarong is more practical. A smaller towel sometimes easier. Getting into the pool and out a good option. If I need to carry other things a towel in a bag or hanging on a strap is no imposition. A towel is often handy to cushion the strap of a shoulder bag, water bottle strap, or backpack. A rock may have bird droppings, a grass lawn some hidden critters, but a towel is preferable and more healthy than pants. It must also be remembered that we air out more efficiently without clothing. It isn't as big of a health matter as is proposed, or our species and others species, just wouldn't have survived on this planet. It is our nature to squat, perhaps that is preferable to having to handle a towel? If I'm wandering and in and out of water, the towel is often silly and I enjoy unencumbered hands and feet, etc. Barefoot all over, all over, free.

The hand washing thing seems to work. I got sick less when I taught school. But the hands transfer to mouths, to nostrils, to food, to other objects. I'm not so sure that a bare butt of an infected person will be a problem to my bare butt as far as transference goes. Otherwise clothes working like body's gloves would have all matter of infectious stuff and need to be removed with two fingers and then hands and clothing washed. Just thoughts and questioning the authority of the mass media and medical knowledge as reliable sources. I have no certainty. Perhaps we are better off to experience bacteria through the skin and its defense system. Hands are near orifices. Orifices are susceptible to viral disease.
Jbee
Barefoot all over, all over.