Author Topic: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.  (Read 19120 times)

Greenbare Woods

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2016, 05:47:25 PM »

AND we happen to know that they like it already, they just don't know it yet. It isn't as if "we" are selling them something that they don't need.
Jbee


That's a huge part of our problem.   We are not selling them anything, and hence are not making $$billions to pay for advocacy of nothing.  Selling unneeded products, creating demand, and generation of desire for unneeded or harmful products is a huge part of commerce and media.

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eyesup

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2016, 06:59:30 PM »
Quote from: Bob
Sounds like  great idea.  Can you imagine 50 people a day walking in, voting naked, and walking out?  People would think its a movement.

This brings to mind the belief that nudity en masse is less threatening than a singular naked person. If a large group of naked voters walked up with all the necessary documentation, I do wonder what would happen. Would they have to let them vote? Do the voting rules specifically say anything about a dress code? :)

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2016, 06:54:11 PM »
Quote from: Bob
Sounds like  great idea.  Can you imagine 50 people a day walking in, voting naked, and walking out?  People would think its a movement.

This brings to mind the belief that nudity en masse is less threatening than a singular naked person. If a large group of naked voters walked up with all the necessary documentation, I do wonder what would happen. Would they have to let them vote? Do the voting rules specifically say anything about a dress code? :)

Duane
There is no dress code, but they could be arrested before they got a chance to vote. They might try to stop them because they are breaking the law. No smoking, anything, in a public place, even a voting place can deny admission. In this state, you can technically wear g-string or underwear and not break the law. Not letting a large group vote is illegal. Nudity in protest is not illegal, other than there could be a major hassle before it is thrown out of court. This rigged election, I feel stripped of my rights and democracy. That might be a good way to protest my point. Now, how to make it a movement. How to get more than one or two, to do it. 
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jbeegoode

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2016, 06:59:51 PM »
We used to have a road clean up sign on the way into Tucson on the interstate. "The Southern Arizona Naturists Society". Once a year, we would get out there and officially pick up trash. Maybe if a faked, or real group called Arizona Nude Hiking Club, it would help legitimize nudity...or Washington Nude Hikers...or Nevada...or....

Billboards are expensive, just picking up the trash isn't. Oops, there goes another Alice's Restaurant reference? On the other hand, it might scare up a backlash. "Oh ma Gah, there are droves of naked people out on the trail!!! What about the children?"
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2016, 08:28:20 PM »
Yeah, and instead of wearing those fluorescent vests identifying the group, you could have them body painted on so you don't violate your own rule against wearing anything! 8) Except maybe some sunglasses.

Good idea, I should think!

Duane

nenude

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2016, 01:15:53 AM »
They should have asked this group and saved lots of money. Except I don't see any references to nude "bathers."
http://qz.com/804022/health-benefits-japanese-forest-bathing/

Greenbare Woods

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2016, 03:32:25 PM »
Yeah, and instead of wearing those fluorescent vests identifying the group, you could have them body painted on so you don't violate your own rule against wearing anything! 8) Except maybe some sunglasses.

Good idea, I should think!

Duane


I like the idea of cleaning up the roadside naked.    Just doing public service.   

Well, they approved a nudist group cleaning the roadside.  What did they expect?


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nuduke

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2016, 12:57:28 PM »
Quote from: Bob
I like the idea of cleaning up the roadside naked.    Just doing public service
That's quite a thought, Bob.
It occurs to me that the better acceptance and enfranchisement of naturism might be achieved, along the lines of the world naked bike ride events, by groups of naturists who ganged together to do public and voluntary works.  In the UK, huge amounts of land maintenance are done by volunteers on canals, preservation railways, people do form litter patrols and so on.  If naturist groups sought owners', operators', local authorities' and police permission to do such activities naked, how much good could be done for good causes and for the acceptance of public nudity.  If a bunch of nude people were clearing litter from a park, sure there would be people that found it uncomfortable and unacceptable but if the naturists were there by invitation and permission, surely their only recourse would be to choose not to look or go elsewhere.  Recourse to law would be inapplicable in that case.

Obviously there are three problems with this idea and ideal - first; the difficulty of getting permission for such an event, second; the probability that the law would not suspend itself just because the police were open minded enough to allow it to proceed and third; are there any or enough nudist groups that want to do this to form a working party/gang?.  But, more positively, we have naturist swims in public pools and WNBR.  Why not WNVC (World naked vegetation clearing)!?  I wonder how many apparent non-naturists would respond to an advert or social media call to arms (and legs!).  I bet there is a proportion of people on WNBR events that are completely textile except for the one naked event they attend each year, which gives them the permission and safety to get naked outdoors.

Final thought - naked theatre.  Because naturists are relatively few and rather biased towards doing it in the great outdoors or enclosed clubs, homes etc., there may be rather a dearth of people who want to perform plays and stuff in a theatre.  But there a LOADS of Shakespeare plays done in modern dress or set in circumstances quite removed from anything Shakespeare could have imagines.  So why not naked Hamlet, Julius Caesar or Othello?  If the National Theatre did a naked Shakespeare, you can bet that would give rise to a rash of other companies following suit - naked Shaw, Wilde, Ibsen, O'Neill or Miller, perhaps!  I've seen ballets where the dancers are all but naked (because they are trying to portray nakedness in the piece) dressed to remain within the law in a few wisps or threads of clothing.  In a recent National theatre production of 'Frankenstein' the opening 15-20' was the monster struggling to emerge into life and he was completely naked.  Gosh, what other public and cultural events might be naked emancipated, TED, party conferences?  Somebody posted, or I read somewhere, that an art exhibition had been opened to naturists for an evening.

John
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 01:12:46 PM by nuduke »

Greenbare Woods

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2016, 05:06:55 PM »
Obviously there are three problems with this idea and ideal - first; the difficulty of getting permission for such an event, second; the probability that the law would not suspend itself just because the police were open minded enough to allow it to proceed and third; are there any or enough nudist groups that want to do this to form a working party/gang?.   John

In many places being naked is legal.  What the law prohibits here is being naked wile acting in a manner "intended to cause other people to be alarmed or affronted."   A roadside cleanup, trash pickup in a park, or doing maintenance work on a canal would have the intention of doing public work, not the intention of causing anyone else to be involved.  Completely legal nudity that courts would support in most places. 

The application to do the work does not have to specify the intended choice of clothing by volunteer workers.  It should say that the sponsor organization is a nudist or naturist club.  That gives the bureaucrat an option to approve the application without addressing the choice of (non) clothing issue. 

It would be a great way to get roads cleaned. 
Bob

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jbeegoode

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2016, 08:52:08 PM »
The trail into the nude area of Redington Pass was created by naked volunteer people. Nude trail maintenance in forest areas, where it is legal on Fed land would be wonderful press AND make a mark AND identify nude with good citizenship, AND legitimize us. But, how many naturists would be out there working. That is hard labor. The more frail ones could help feed the crew, I suppose. Designating big rock movers and shovel-ers, and sweepers, and brush stackers might work. Those able do heavy loads, those not so, light loads. Just thought off the top of my head. Ken has the right idea, service and exercise to keep him young.
Jbee
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nuduke

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2016, 05:25:52 PM »
I have to say, jbee that in the uk, retired people and all manner of folks volunteer for projects up to civil engineering dimensions.  Heavy engineering restoring canals and maintaining forests and railways is often done by chaps like us (i.e. a bit on the wise and mature side!).  I'm sure these amazing and admirable people, seemingly undaunted by any size and scale of operation, are everywhere in the USA as well.

Bob, whilst the UK law is similarly apparently emancipated and does not consider nudity of itself to be illegal, as we have discussed many times, the interpretation options available to the police and courts attenuate severely the protection of the law for law abiding naturists. One has gotta ask to be unclothed in public, not just assume that the law will work as one interprets it.  For every favourable interpretation there is an equal and opposite one, usually from the police! 

To illustrate the gulf between how people respond to nudity and what the law allows, permit me 2 recent examples.  I go to an art class. Mostly older women.  The other day I did a copy/interpretation of "Truth emerging from the bottom of her well, armed with a whip to punish humankind. By Jean-Léon Gerome" and I showed it to the teacher as a) I was very captivated by the original and b) I was quite pleased with my copy although it was infinitely cruder and less detailed.  Well, you should have heard the clucking and embarrased laughter from the small group of fellow amateur artists because the figure was naked.  This was a piece of art in an art class.  You'd think they would look at it in a more rational way.  Last night I saw a bit of a UK chat show with a famous comedian relating how he had been cast in a play which required him to be nude on stage for a couple of scenes and how he negotiated his way out of it because he didn't believe you should have nudity in the theatre because ....wait for it.... it distracted the audience from the dialogue and proper attention to the play.  He's probably right too!  The point being, Bob, that we (at least in the uk) are so, so, so far away from any sort of intelligent and accepting frame of mind about nudity.  There is such a long way to go!

John

eyesup

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2016, 11:32:56 PM »
Any group volunteering for public service as a service club would post their sign as the responsible group for cleaning the road. If it happened to be "Xxxxx Yyyy Zzzz Naturists" and they were busy picking up trash, as Bob says, if they aren't intending to offend, they would be within the law. As long as benign nudity was legal in the state, there shouldn't be an issue.

Duane

John P

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2016, 03:56:38 AM »
In many places being naked is legal.  What the law prohibits here is being naked wile acting in a manner "intended to cause other people to be alarmed or affronted."   A roadside cleanup, trash pickup in a park, or doing maintenance work on a canal would have the intention of doing public work, not the intention of causing anyone else to be involved.  Completely legal nudity that courts would support in most places. 

I don't think that's correct, Bob. What the Naturist Action Committee lists as the law for Washington is:
RCW 9A.88.010  Indecent exposure.
(1) A person is guilty of indecent exposure if he or she intentionally makes any open and obscene exposure of his or her person or the person of another knowing that such conduct is likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm.


It seems to me that you can't get away with saying that you didn't intend to cause affront or alarm; you'd be expected to know that it was likely. On the other hand, the exposure has to be "open" and also "obscene". You could say that of course you were being open, but absolutely not obscene, but I don't know how far that would get you. The NAC's listing ominously ends up saying: "NAC NOTE: The state of Washington has used RCW 9A.88.010 to arrest and prosecute persons for nude sunbathing."

The law in England is somewhat similar (Section 5 of the Public Order Act) where they prohibit "threatening words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour... within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby". Again, that word "likely" appears, with no need for an intent to offend. And unfortunately, people being openly naked have been successfully prosecuted under that law, though others have managed to get acquitted. It's not clear in wording or consistent in operation.

Greenbare Woods

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2016, 06:32:09 AM »
I don't think that's correct, Bob. What the Naturist Action Committee lists as the law for Washington is:
RCW 9A.88.010  Indecent exposure.
(1) A person is guilty of indecent exposure if he or she intentionally makes any open and obscene exposure of his or her person or the person of another knowing that such conduct is likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm.


It seems to me that you can't get away with saying that you didn't intend to cause affront or alarm; you'd be expected to know that it was likely. On the other hand, the exposure has to be "open" and also "obscene". You could say that of course you were being open, but absolutely not obscene, but I don't know how far that would get you. The NAC's listing ominously ends up saying: "NAC NOTE: The state of Washington has used RCW 9A.88.010 to arrest and prosecute persons for nude sunbathing."

Yes, the Courts have interpreted the same language differently depending on which Judge you get.   But in numerous cases the argument was made and supported that the Legislature did not just say that being naked is illegal.  The Legislature included all that language about it being "an obscene exposure" and knowing that CONDUCT will cause someone else to be alarmed or affronted.  That puts the prosecutors having a burden of showing some CONDUCT other than just being naked which is knowingly going to offend or alarm someone else.   The Legislature could have more easily just said that being naked is illegal, but they did not say that.  Many judges are unwilling to read that blanket into the law which has all these other conditions.   

Pretty much minding your own business with intent to go about your own business is not CONDUCT that knowingly offends someone else.  You can be naked within sight of a road picking up trash, but you can't be dancing on the sight of the road trying to be seen.  Its as clear as mud only because over zealous prosecutors won't obey the law.   
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nudewalker

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Re: Public Promotion of Nudism/Naturism.
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2016, 04:36:09 PM »
Sorry not to have jumped in sooner but the Tampa Area Naturists are responsible for litter pick up on the road leading to Fort DeSoto park. I'm not really sure what Florida law is but Pinellas county has a rather restrictive one that prohibits exposure if genitals or female areola. They have tried for years to get a nude beach at that park without success,  even with a number of events and public relations to try and educate the population there. Last I heard they are trying to move their efforts to another area near Tampa.

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