Police Voyeurs

[Peter S]

Ah, Ric, you're talking reality. But people get sucked in by the show and don't know that  so they think crime can all be solved by CCTV and instant DNA matching. Most of these shows are more like science fiction than cop fiction

[John P]

Ah, Ric, you're talking reality. But people get sucked in by the show and don't know that  so they think crime can all be solved by CCTV and instant DNA matching. Most of these shows are more like science fiction than cop fiction

But then again, JohnGW just told us this:

In the crowded UK drones are the least of our problems - it is well documented that there are now more surveillance cameras then the entire population - more than one each, not to mention all the phone cams.

I'd like to see where this is "well documented". Not here, evidently:
One surveillance camera for every 11 people in Britain, says CCTV ...
www.telegraph.co.uk › Technology
Jul 10, 2013 - Britain has a CCTV camera for every 11 people, a security industry report ... undertaken into the number of CCTV cameras in use in the UK.

It seems to me that people form ideas based on shreds of information which they pick up from fiction or speculation or just plain fantasy, and they then earnestly repeat those ideas to other people, who may pass them along. We need to keep some kind of hold on reality!

[Greenbare Woods]

The last time that I went past one nude, I bent over and spread my cheeks.  Jbee

LOL.   I'm going to have to try that.   

[Greenbare Woods]

The cameras are encouraged and made acceptable by the TV cop shows which have the bad guys tracked all over town and identified by the camera feeds. Because all this surveillance catches the bad guys it must be good, right?

I read somewhere that cops can follow someone home from almost anywhere in London because the entire city is on continual video surveillance.  Other cities are much the same.  Often some store or other has parking lot cams that also show the street.  They find one that has the "bad guys" car, and then go down the street to find the next one. 

All that reviewing video takes a huge number of police hours so they only do it when there is a major crime with a lot of public demand for them to solve the crime.  They aren't going to spend the time and effort for simple crimes like a home burglary or car theft - unless its the home of a big name politician. 

We can be seen naked if anyone cared, but they don't.  Our best protection is to collectively show up on surveillance naked so often that nobody bothers to pay attention.  We need to become everyday background. 

So here's another thought.  In the past I've gone naked walking down residential city streets after midnight.  Some of the houses have driveway lights on motion detectors that come on when anyone walks past.  I guess they are intended primarily for the person arriving home in their own driveways.  You are walking quietly down the street in the dark and suddenly FLASH you are in the spotlight.  Its startling at first but then you realize that its an automatic light which nobody ever watches. 

Some of the new driveway lights have video with the lights, and some of the front doorbells also have video.  Not that I'm going to ring someone's doorbell after midnight but I wonder how much of the quiet residential street is on video?   I suppose nobody watches that either unless some big event happened.  Just flood the world with naked bodies and blend into the background.

[nudewalker]

I guess the difference between big city and rural America is the degree of the crime. It seems as if every night the local news has grainy footage of a store  where there was either a hold up, a smash and grab or a vending machine broken into. Always with the newscaster saying police need your help in identifying this person. Other than that, and this is from a person I know on the inside, the only time the tapes are reviewed is to check out a good looking female customer or to prove that the really weird person did stop in. Most are on a twenty four hour loop and after they have been rerecorded over a number of times they lose their clarity.

As for the cop shows on TV, our local district attorney admitted that our local law enforcement does not have the tools or the money to investigate crimes as one would see on television. In fact I've heard that the state of Ohio has a backlog on rape kits because the funding is not there to process them. So now, before we drift any farther, I'll move back to the thread.

As Bob has stated many times, nudity has to become normal. There will there be a push back from those who will insist that modesty is God's will, or think of the children and I don't look good enough to be naked in public. Then there is the big money to contend with as the fashion industry will be under pressure to design  clothing for protection instead of high fashion.  Maybe more nudity on cameras will mean small images toward the bigger picture.

[JOhnGw]

Ah, Ric, you're talking reality. But people get sucked in by the show and don't know that  so they think crime can all be solved by CCTV and instant DNA matching. Most of these shows are more like science fiction than cop fiction

But then again, JohnGW just told us this:

In the crowded UK drones are the least of our problems - it is well documented that there are now more surveillance cameras then the entire population - more than one each, not to mention all the phone cams.

I'd like to see where this is "well documented". Not here, evidently:
One surveillance camera for every 11 people in Britain, says CCTV ...
www.telegraph.co.uk › Technology
Jul 10, 2013 - Britain has a CCTV camera for every 11 people, a security industry report ... undertaken into the number of CCTV cameras in use in the UK.

It seems to me that people form ideas based on shreds of information which they pick up from fiction or speculation or just plain fantasy, and they then earnestly repeat those ideas to other people, who may pass them along. We need to keep some kind of hold on reality!

Apologies for the mis-remembered figure. I wonder what the actual figure is now, three years later.

Edited to add:
Thank goodness there is always somebody to correct me when I get it wrong.

[ric]

i would question the accuracy of the figures anyway.

pure guess but id say theyve only counted those cameras installed by people who belong to some sort of camera installers professional body.

ive got a camera covering my driveway, linked to a modified vcr , installed at least 15 years ago. the vcr was modified to loop record on pir activation by a local tv engineer . it was a prototype for our new business idea, which didnt proceed.
locally theres loads of diy installed cctv systems on private houses and small businesses which wont appear in any professional instalation figures.

[Greenbare Woods]

i would question the accuracy of the figures anyway.


ive got a camera covering my driveway, linked to a modified vcr , installed at least 15 years ago. the vcr was modified to loop record on pir activation by a local tv engineer . it was a prototype for our new business idea, which didnt proceed.

I also question data.  The new ones are mail order, plug and go. 

The "loop" recorders are now obsolete tech.   Digital recording can store many days of high quality video on a single small chip.   Eventually they have to erase and re-use the storage, but it is small physical size, BIG data capacity, and no moving parts to break.  My DVR for the TV can store literally hundreds of hours of HDTV.   But surveillance video is exceedingly boring, nothing at all happens most of the time, and what does happen is boring -- someone or an animal walks past or drives past, and again, and again, and again.  Nobody watches unless some event happens like a fire or crime.

Bob

[nuduke]

But we brits do have a LOT of public surveillance cameras.  They are taking over a lot of traffic functions such as plate recognition for tolls and traffic contraventions.  In store video is standard for addressing theft by shoppers and staff.  I was in a hotel swimming pool the other day and noted the cameras that relay the doings in and around the pool to the staff at reception, saving the need for a lifeguard attendant.  Most rail stations have video for passenger surveillance and train safety (there is a big screen where the driver stops so that he can see the platform is clear when there is no guard on train or dispatcher on platform.

Whilst the police can't see everywhere from external cctv, they have cameras in their cars, on their uniform and I reckon it won't be long before a police patrol that has to give chase will release one or more self-actuating drones which will detect the culprit and guide the pursuing officers to their quarry.  Having thought of this, it immediately occurs that this could work in reverse with drones being an adjunct to criminal activity and escaping the police!

Anyway, for now we are observed a lot in most British towns and cities.

John

[John P]

"More cameras than people" is an exaggeration, but there certainly are a lot of cameras. And in fact, they have been used to catch criminals; it's hard to say that shouldn't be allowed. I don't know what a reasonable limit on use of cameras would be, but once technology exists, it's very difficult to make it go away.

[Peter S]

A friend of mine runs an alarm business, and added CCTV to his sales some years back. He is always very pumped when he hears of someone being brought to book thanks to one of his cameras.

The move to such surveillance is a mixed blessing, I feel. The ability to catch the bad guys after the fact is a real plus, and one would hope a deterrent in the first place. The feeling of being watched all the time, though, is only slightly mitigated by the knowledge that most cameras are not monitored and most of what they record is looped over and never seen.

I have a camera myself, trained on my front drive. Last year my van was broken into and all my work gear stolen; its replacement is watched over night and day. I don't want to review last night's film to catch the bad guy (or passing naked people 😁) - I want the bad guy to see the camera and choose an easier target!!

Peter

[JOhnGw]

As a side effect, cameras have also exposed a great deal of police brutality which would otherwise have gone undetected.

[Greenbare Woods]

I went naked to our rented storage place.  They must have 30 cameras, one on every building corner watching every driveway and door.  There were so many that I ignored them and went naked anyway.  I was the only person in the whole place at the time.

Since my flickr account got deleted I'm having more trouble posting images.

[Safebare]

Well, it's official.  I have been cited!  It was Christmas Eve and the weather was just warm again, so clothes seemed unnecessary.  I wanted to install hydraulic cylinders on the front-end loader of the tractor and had it all the way up the driveway shielded on all sides by vehicles, pump house, main house and garage.  Of course the vehicles only partially blocked the view up the driveway, but I would watch for traffic and others to avoid anyone seeing any offensive body parts.  The only neighbor within eyesight appeared to be away or at least remained indoors, which isn't normal since he spends most of his time in the shop with the doors open.  I know he dislikes my naturist tendencies and cover when I know he might be out and about.  Besides, his house is about 75 yards away.  He certainly can tell whether I am clothed or nude, but too far to see any detail.  We are near the end of a small neighborhood, so I don't usually get much traffic and on Christmas Eve, it seemed very quiet.
I completed my task with only one instance where I noticed someone looking my direction.  He was on a mower well past my nearest neighbor, a good 100 yards away.  I just shielded myself among the vehicles until his attention went elsewhere.  I put on shorts to clean up the tools and then sat on the back porch to enjoy a relaxing beverage.
The officer popped his head over the wood fence to announce his presence.  The dogs, of course, went ballistic.  Anyway, I went to greet the officer in the driveway (I still had on the shorts). There I found two additional units of the county sheriff's office parked along the street in front of my house.  The three deputies proceeded to ask me whether it was me that neighbors had reported wandering the front yard NAKED!  I explained that I had not been wandering the front yard without any clothes, but had been in the back yard and near the garage.  They asked why?. So I explained that I am a naturist, but didn't go into anything further.
They said that they had been provided a photo 'from a third party', clearly showing a naked man.  I told them that I never saw anyone close enough to take a photo or even close enough to notice my state of dress.  I told them of the guy on the mower and pointed out where he was in the distance.
After getting my side of the story, one of the deputies went to my neighbor's house, where he spent 20 - 30 minutes talking with him.  The other two officers hung around my driveway, so I just waited with them.
When the deputy returned, he said that he would not be taking me to jail (really?!), because the DA didn't want to pursue any prosecution.  He explained that being nude was only illegal if accompanying lewd actions and none could be proven against me.  I kept quiet.  He did give me a citation for 'disorderly conduct - offensive gesture'.  WHAT!  Where did they dig that up?  Now I have to appear before a Justice of the Peace before February 2nd to 'resolve this citation'.
The citation is nominal, probably around $100, but only if I plead out (nolo contendre).  I'm thinking of asking for deferred adjudication, that would have it go away after 30 - 60 days without further complaint.  Or fight it for principal, but the costs would certainly go up considerably and my chances of winning are slim in the podunk court.
I still needed to change the hydraulic fluid and clean the screen, so I simply moved the tractor to the back yard where I could complete the job without worrying about prying eyes.  The officer did say that I could wander the back yard naked as much as I wanted, just don't come out of the gate without clothes on.

Happy tidings to all y'all!
Safebare

[Peter S]

You have my sympathies. Three deputies sounds a bit overkill - suggests it was a quiet day for law enforcement. As you were on your own property as you describe, could you counter-complain for invasion of privacy?

peter