Police Voyeurs

[jbeegoode]

You make it appear that you were super vigilant, and you probably were. You built a privacy wall and listened. I'm curious what conflicts that you have had with that neighbor in the past. It would be a "he said vs. she/she said" without a photo. The neighbor may have been plotting how to get you or made complaints unsuccessfully in the past. He then, may have been told to have a picture as proof. HE would have to have been watching pretty darn hard to see you. He may have been hiding and creeping to get that picture, and assuming that you were nude. In other words you may have been stalked by a hidden voyeur. That may be illegal in your state. You certainly were no "reckless" nor showed genitals. No photo was produced, only hearsay.

The guy is out to get you, feels powerless, he wants to win his little war and you have committed the offense of denying him control in his kingdom and within his "right," so may continue his "fight." Personally, I'd be very pissed and looking for an attorney for a civil solution to bite him in the butt.

So, you broke no law, yet you have been given a citation as if you stood out front and flicked your finger at this shitty neighbor across the street. Yo have been civil, he is obviously provable out to get you. He could be seen in court as malicious.

Now, was there an actual picture, or did the a-hole just claim that. There should be no picture of the required genitals. You took extrodinary measures to keep your privacy and had a reasonable expectation of that.

You are innocent. You would win in court. Could these be construed as false charges? False allegations?  Get the guy back to burn his fingers for lying to a police officer about the existence of a dated picture? Sue to have him pay for your court costs (usually much less than). I don't know much about "Texas deferred adjudication" but it requires some hassle to get it to go away from your record. You still have the problem of dealing with this vindictive a-hole across the street. Do you stick to the backyard, or do you communicate, or give 'em a whack of some kind to teach him to lay off? Do you have a feud? How can you find a way to get him to lay off of your privacy?

My neighbors never produced the picture that they claimed to have. I suspect that it was a cell phone pic in an entirely different place that their kid went to a lot of trouble to get, otherwise it was a case of them laying in wait hidden in bushes to catch us with a high powered camera. People lie.

It could be one of those cases where the cop decides that he wants to do something even though no law has been broken. A charge is filed, the victim sweats for a few months waiting, then the cop doesn't show up and it is thrown out of court. There is expense and no justice other than for the cop that makes his own laws and executes them without trail. You have a right to meet your accuser. You have a right to see that evidence, the picture. The neighbor could lie under oath, and they will if cornered. The neighbor could not want to get that involved. Depends on the personality. It may go away.

I'm kind of principled at times and demand justice out of the courts. I don't like to compromise my rights, but I have been practical in divorce, a civil matter. I don't like to spend my energies fighting and would rather be left alone, but sometimes I get wrapped up in things and go all out, enjoying the memories and feeling good about it. I never know where I'm going to draw the line. I assume that you live in a flat area. Maybe you need to spend the court expense money on a nice tall privacy wall?

The cop and the neighbor are not reasonable and are pushing you where they have no right to, if the facts that you have given are correct, nothing left out. Please, let us know what happens, vent, or maybe give us a good feeling about justice. The NAC may have some practical advice and a good attorney in your area. False charges by a cop is a very serious matter for us all. What does  "disorderly conduct - offensive gesture" supposed to mean, anyway? I don't see it in anything that you have presented. What does the police report say? I see no evidence, almost as if it was pulled out of the air. If there s nothing there then it is a waste of the courts time and resources. It is also one legal strike against you, if this a-hole is further emboldened to complicate your life, saying that you did this or that, as some of my previous neighbors did to everyone.
Jbee

[Safebare]

There is more to the story and I will fill in as I can. The neighbor does have an axe to grind, but it's not specific to me. He is the last of the family that settled the area and he is not happy about all these intruders movng into the family haven. The family cemetery separates us. His mother, the matriarch, lives in a trailer behind the cemetery to shu away kids and other curious strangers. The property on the other side of him consists of trailers and double-wides.  They keep to themselves. We have only exchanged polite conversation and greetings in the 9 years I've lived here. Açcelt for the one time, years ago that my kids wanted to have a look at the gravestones.

[Greenbare Woods]

Once again the police rule by fear and violence, not by law and order.  You weren't breaking a law, the photo showed that.  So they broke the law and robbed you with a fake "disorderly conduct" citation to demonstrate their authority and intimidate you. They prevent you from acting in a lawful manner. 

Some neighbors would start a neighborhood war over stuff like this but that could end up worse.  Might be time to "swat" the neighbor, but don't use your own phone. 

Of course now that the deputies have already explained to you (and to your neighbor) that just being naked is not illegal, it might be permission to be naked more often.  Deputies don't like wasting time on trivia that isn't going to result in an arrest (unless its a very slow day).  They went away disappointed at wasting time.  Beat the "disorderly" wrap because you weren't disorderly and they don't have a photo of that.  Then take that as permission to go naked.  The DA will explain to the cops to stop harassing you. 

Carpe Diem!

[jbeegoode]

 "Beat the "disorderly" wrap because you weren't disorderly and they don't have a photo of that.  Then take that as permission to go naked.  The DA will explain to the cops to stop harassing you."

Probably good advice Bob.

Sometimes a good citizen has to stand up to protect the law and justice, when law and justice is being abused. Not only it ain't right, it is very wrong. The cop deserves a good swat, too. The disorderly rap should be easy to beat and worth doing that. It is just a mater of keeping expenses down and getting it most effectively to the DA, which had nothing to do with this, just cop BS.
Jbee

[Safebare]

Agreed.  i did not break any laws, so the legal system isn't the means to settle the neighbor dispute. 

Not sure if I want to take any success in challenging the charge as permission to expand my nude activities further.  i want them to be a respectful neighbor and will try to demonstrate what that looks like.  I considered retribution, but thought that to be petty and pulling myself to their level.  I will be looking for higher ground once the citation is resolved.  I do not see this as anything I should involve NAC in at this point. 

I spoke with another neighbor tonight.  He agrees, the citation is BS.

Safebare

[John P]

Safebare, I'm not sure you can win this if you live in Texas as your profile says. You have a law that says (per NAC website):
Penal Code Title 9, Section 42.01 Disorderly conduct: public nudity.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:...
(10) exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and is reckless about whether another may be present who will be offended or alarmed by his act.
(c) For purposes of this section:
(1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence;

The question might be whether you were "reckless" about someone else being in sight. You placed vehicles to form a barrier, but evidently not a complete one. So, is the amount of care you took enough to clear you of being "reckless" or does the law demand more? That's impossible to know. But give the cop credit for knowing that "Title 9, §21.08. Indecent exposure" requires a sexual element, and he didn't claim it was there when it wasn't. Although he certainly applied some intimidation by saying "I won't take you to jail" when in fact he agreed you hadn't broken the law, except possibly this disorderly conduct thing. So "the DA didn't want to pursue any prosecution", brilliant deduction, Sherlock. Maybe the DA prefers to prosecute criminals.

You might get somewhere pointing out that the witness claimed you had been "wandering the front yard NAKED" when that wasn't true, and therefore he's not reliable. And this picture, does it really exist and what does it show? That could be a bluff. Or maybe it's not.

Unfortunately, win or lose, pursuing this case will surely cost you far more than $100.

[Safebare]

Thank you for the time, effort and support. I am going to see what I need to get a copy of the full report, with photo. Then decide if I want to challenge the citation completely or go for a simpler path to get it behind me.

[nudewalker]

Just out of curiosity I looked up the West Virginia code and was stunned (well not really) that it had been updated this year. It reads as follows;

§61-8-9. Indecent exposure.
(a) A person is guilty of indecent exposure when such person intentionally exposes his or her sex organs or anus or the sex organs or anus of another person, or intentionally causes such exposure by another or engages in any overt act of sexual gratification, and does so under circumstances in which the person knows that the conduct is likely to cause affront or alarm: Provided, That it is not considered indecent exposure for a mother to breast feed a child in any location, public or private.

In other words vague enough to allow the police or courts to define it as they wish.  My defense would be with over fifty percent of Americans saying they were in favor of nude recreation that who knew I would run into a minority? And why wasn't I stunned when I saw the change? Republican legislature pandering to their Christian conservatives. I just thought it would take a few more years.

[Greenbare Woods]

and does so under circumstances in which the person knows that the conduct is likely to cause affront or alarm:

Similar language in numerous other US states have resulted in court decisions that just going about your daily business, minding your won business, while naked does not give you knowledge that someone else will be affronted or alarmed.   But, like you say, it does give them wide latitude to control and intimidate people.

 

[ric]

to me the words "overt act of sexual gratification" rule out most naturists going about normal activities, but why then go on to specifically mention breast feeding?   surly nobody would claim  breast feading an infant was an overt act of sexual gratification?


incidentally whilst xmas shopping we stopped for lunch in a cafe , table next to me and mrs (actually in the back corner of the crowded cafe) was a young couple with two young kids, the baby was breastfed , im not even sure anyone else actually noticed.

[jbeegoode]

I always thought of it as beautiful. Isn't there a statue of Jesus breast feeding on Mary in a cathedral in Rome?

That West Virginia statute...is that the whole thing? It goes from genitals to breast?
Jbee

[nudewalker]

When I Googled the WV nudity Law that's what came up Jbee. There is more but basically just the fines and jail times for each offense until the third which then becomes a felony. If that's the statute as written I don't see breasts mentioned as sex organs but then why the addition about breast feeding?

As for art, I don't know about statues but there are paintings of the Madonna breastfeeding. Which brings me to the fact that my mother and a few of my aunts breastfeed openly as I remember. What the hell happened in the span of maybe forty years? It was mentioned by ric that the feeding mother was hardly noticed but I feel that most people just don't care. Same thing goes with nudity, if it were more common most people would care less.

[Safebare]

Yes, things do really change, often much quicker than 40 years. Nude swims at the 'Y', trough urinals, group showers or showers completely after exercise; all gone the way of prudery. What bothers me the most is how people feel rightious in their objections of breastfeeding, locker room nudity, etc. People feel empowered to tell me when my hair is too long or my shirt outdated, as though they are doing me a favor.
There was an argument about hospital gowns and those that don't care that their bare bum is exposed in the hospital. The patient is doing all (s)he can to be walking and modesty has to be the priority!  Give me a break! 
It's as though we've reached a point that we can't fix what really matters, so we focus on the rest of it.
Sorry, I'm feeling a tad bit bitter right now.  Happy New Year to all of my free range naked brothers out there.
Safebare!

[Greenbare Woods]

I agree completely Safebare, and its worse in the US than Europe.  I have been pushing back, being seen naked, and posting photos of myself.  One person can't make a difference.  We all need to bitch and scream when some prude tries to take away our privileges or calls our human bodies "obscene" for simply existing. 

Bob
 

[Safebare]

Bob, one person can, & often does make a difference. Hell, if a butterfly can stir up a hurricane, then let's see what I can do. Keep the faith. You are making a difference.