Author Topic: Stress reliever  (Read 5500 times)

eyesup

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 07:34:47 AM »
Well, my reaction had to do with the mood of the video. Yeah!!!! She is a babe!!! So what. Babes do exist and some are even naturists.

I was more drawn to the implication of the stress of being in a high-rise in a city and going for a run, then deciding to head out of the city.

Didn't have anything to do with the 'babe'.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2017, 10:25:42 PM »
DF calls me "Babe" sometimes. I have no clue what she means by it, guess I should ask, but it is with affection.
Jbee
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JOhnGw

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2017, 03:10:26 PM »
Anything said with affection is OK by me.
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
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John P

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2017, 07:31:06 PM »
There are multiple ways one might respond to "mood of the video" according to what one perceives that mood to be. In fact there could be multiple themes present at the same time. I get the point of the relief of stress, which was obvious enough.

But what we see all the time, and very rarely comment on, is the fact that in any artistic endeavor that involves nudity, the creators seem to call on slim young women ("babes") to express their point. We naturists have the claim that "every body is a good body", but somehow this skewed selection isn't of great concern to us. In fact, a fair amount of naturist publicity and "art" carries on in the same manner. I'll also point out that in heterosexual pornography, it's the same demographic that's usually on display, from old Playboy magazines up to the really nasty stuff. I think it would be naive to call that a coincidence; whether the image is openly sexual or not, there seems to be something in us which wants to see young women with their clothes off. And if we naturists are going to claim to shake off old-fashioned ideas about nudity, then I think we should be the first ones asking awkward questions such as "Whose nudity do we really want to see?"

So someone makes a perfectly fine film about how a city dweller dreams of running out to the woods and stripping naked. It's good stuff, let's all do it. But they select a young woman to illustrate it, and that's part of the story too! Even if it's totally familiar, I think it's not something we should just let pass without a comment. And as I said in an earlier comment, here we are, a bunch of mature men, most of us with wives who'll never be seen naked in public, discussing a movie with a naked woman as the sole performer. Shouldn't we be finding that a little embarrassing?

jbeegoode

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2017, 02:54:51 AM »
"Whose nudity do we really want to see?"

Well, letís see if I can be honest. I want to see my own for starters. I want to be free, in touch, alive, aware, unshackled, comfortable and natural, among other reasons.

Next, I want to see everybody elseís nudity complete with smiling, maybe peaceful faces.

So you are asking me to narrow it down and be preferential, perhaps setting myself up to be judgmental. Iíll take the bait. My preference is to see anyone who happens to be near me sharing the nude experience positively. I like images of people enjoying nudity, as well as the real deal. But, there is this thing implied about images and young women. They do dominate the internet and art. They are desired. I believe in a more perfect, less contaminated world, that health is attractive to many physically and secondly the emotional values that one shares with others. These are varied and complex. One individual may be into butts, another individual might have a butt as a most attractive asset, style of butt, nice butt coupled with emotional considerations, firm butt, big butt, a handful, on and on. Personalities and experiences within interaction of people create billions of interactive complexities. But then let me get back to whose nudity do we want to see.

There seems to be a Desmond Morris argument of the attraction to health. Youth is more healthy, more often. I find myself personally attracted to those traits of signs of health in others, and Iíll tend to prefer to be around health and youthful attitudes and abilities. It just happens. I have no problem with accepting people as they are and be curious, and see that they all have things to offer more than an initial attractive look. Some people are just sexy to me for many reasons. Just looking/seeing the superficial point of view, I get a certain kick out of seeing health and females, so I fit into the dominate young female culture and figure that Iím amongst a majority, by  what is out there. Still, I donít think that that can be called as the result of the influence of a culturally created fixation. Women get a kick out of youthful nudes, too. It is a health thing and that, I think, is human nature.

When I was in my forties, I began dating a woman older than 30 for the first time. I have found myself attracted more to older women more and more since then. Still Iíll find myself looking for healthy and I find youthful attributes getting my attention when that happens, naturally.

Who do I really want to see, is anyone and everyone else naked and enjoying it, but when it happens that I see a younger look in a woman, I happen to naturally get a kick out of it. Babes do happen to get my attention. Babes with clothing on get my attention often, too. IĎm okay with those moments of titillation, appreciation, curiosity, admiration, r however a babe affects me.

The purpose of that film is to sell the idea of naturism. Females attract men and other women identify with the same sex, and all wish for, if not identify with being more youthful. Ponce Ed Leon was not a fluke. Why not do the film with a young guy? He simply wonít sell as well. A young couple would sell well, but then there is that aspect of alone and a personal experience that would be tampered with. To me, the ďbabeĒ was a good choice. It made the point for me and DF, both and a few of us here that at least said that they liked it. I donít see how embarrassment enters into this one.

The point was conveyed to me very effectively. I identify with the grey, dark, overcast S.A.D., concrete oppressive city. It captured my sense of it. The ĒbabeĒ wasnít sexualized, she had short messy hair and a ring in her nose, a baggy sweat suit that didnít do much for her except conveying a sense of being covered up, or insulated. When she finally made it out into the world of color and began to throw off those shackles, it was a sports bra, something that is unattractive to me for some reason oppressive. Her barefoot tiptoe slowed down mobility, but so in touch and real and vulnerable is how I relate to that experience in nature. Then coming into the light and warmth of that day, is such a contrast and a spiritual moment. I identify with the short flix in a most profound way. To me it is what I do and naturism and has nothing to do with the sex or the age of the subjectís experience. It isnít a babeís stripping tease at all, it is the stripping away to a core of humanity in our relation to nature.

John P., I understand your point about too much of too many babes. I understand the exploitations.  Here, I donít see that that applies at all. It doesnít make good sense to me to throw the baby out with the bathwater and a most effective tool, the use of the ďbabeĒ to make a sale. We wouldnít throw out Karlaís photos and have only Stuartís remain, would we? She looks great, as a subject of art, an expression of naturism and nude in a spiritual place. Same deal here, it teaches and it is done artfully.

This brings me to your ď"every body is a good body" take. People have preferences, as I mentioned earlier. Everything is what it is. Accepting that without judgment is a difficult and high order, which probably wonít be accomplished without divine intervention. Generally, people gravitate to health and youth has health. What do I really want to see, is irrelevant, but what I am naturally attracted to, personally is. Give me smooth skin, firm limbs, flexibility in movement, natural long hair, an all over tan, and the wisdom, camaraderie and stability of an older woman every time. Thatís just me being attracted to the opposite sex and getting hot. That certainly is not everybody.

Generally, Iím ĒfriendlyĒ with all body types. I tend to focus on what I like about people, not negatives. They blossom that way, instead of wilting. Every body is a good body, but there are individual preferences that will occur. There are various relationships, which to some, a body look is important, to some the body look has nothing to do with the relationship.

I didnít get distracted by the ďbabeĒ thing in the flix but now, going back, now that you mention her babe-ability. She does have a wonderful butt, which would correspond to my two ex-wives, whom I was fascinated with 30 or 40 years ago. I donít even want to be friends with them anymore. Iíll never have any interpersonal relationship with this actress either. Where is the relevance?  ;)


I'm confused by John P.'s remark that most of the men here have wives that would never be seen naked in public. The subject of the flix is naked in solitude. Could someone alleviate my confusion. I just don't understand why there would be any embarrassment.
Jbee

« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 03:03:47 AM by jbeegoode »
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Peter S

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2017, 07:10:47 AM »
Much as I enjoy all your expositions, JB, I disagree over the idea of the babe as a good advert for clothes-free frolicking. The body insecurities induced in women - and increasingly in men - by the marketeers mean that people look at the perfect model posers and immediately decide "I don't look like that, therefore I could never do that".

Perversely, if 'real', 'normal' body shapes are used the viewer reaction is "yuck, that body should never be seen", so effective is the perfect-body marketing machine.

Based on anecdotal evidence from here and other forums, it seems that most people who try nakedness discover there's nothing wrong and a lot of things good about it, and many will even be converted to the philosophy we espouse here. But actually persuading them to try it in the first place .. there's the rub.

Peter
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Bob Knows

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2017, 03:04:42 PM »
Much as I enjoy all your expositions, JB, I disagree over the idea of the babe as a good advert for clothes-free frolicking. The body insecurities induced in women - and increasingly in men - by the marketeers mean that people look at the perfect model posers and immediately decide "I don't look like that, therefore I could never do that".

Perversely, if 'real', 'normal' body shapes are used the viewer reaction is "yuck, that body should never be seen", so effective is the perfect-body marketing machine.
Peter


I agree with Peter, and JB.   You are both right.   Too many young model looking people in public media nudity conveys an impression that naked is all about showing off young perfect bodies.  But, it also conveys the message that seeing naked bodies is not going to hurt anyone.   I would like to see more of the old ladies in that TV commercial where the old ladies stocked up on sunscreen,etc., before heading to a clothing optional beach.  I read nakedpublicdares.com every week and even submit photos of myself. 

I don't like the constant bluring of genitals in the TV series "Naked and Afraid" wherein a naked man and woman are put into a wilderness where they try to survive.  But millions of viewers see that two naked people are together in the woods for weeks and their nakedness does not turn them into pond slime.   Naked and Afraid survivors are dirty, bug bitten, not made up, ordinary folks. 

The more naked human bodies are seen by everyone, the less uncomfortable people are when they see a human being.  In a perfect world every naked image would look like me and everyone would enjoy seeing us.  But we need to take what we can get.  If it takes showing a "babe" to get naked athletes in sports magazines then let the athletes look like babes.  The Hollywood people who deal in celebrity used to say, "All publicity is good publicity."  I think that goes for public nudity at this time in our campaign to normalize human beings.  All public nudity is good public nudity. 

Peter is certainly right that too many "babes" in media convey a message about body image whether naked or clothed.  Feminists have long complained about overly skinny (emaciated) "babe" clothing models, and they are clothed.  It sends a negative message about the rest of women.  The fashion magazine publishers hire the emaciated models because, despite the complaints, it also conveys a positive message about their clothing or whatever they are selling.  Naked "babe" models sends the same negative message about body image, but it also sends a positive message about being naked. 

We are not all young hot bodies any more.  I'm not.  Most of you are not.  I love myself for who I have become and for having survived my 7 decades with only a few scars.  Naked advocacy is about body acceptance of all bodies.  We know that, but the public does not.  If it takes naked babes to "get a foot in the door" then so be it.  The more naked people are seen the more normal it becomes, and ALL naked people count, even the babes. 

Bob

 
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nudewalker

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2017, 03:35:14 PM »
We are not all young hot bodies any more.  I'm not.  Most of you are not.  I love myself for who I have become and for having survived my 7 decades with only a few scars.  Naked advocacy is about body acceptance of all bodies.  We know that, but the public does not.  If it takes naked babes to "get a foot in the door" then so be it.  The more naked people are seen the more normal it becomes, and ALL naked people count, even the babes. 

Bob


I think the thought of me having a "hot" body is well past it's time. I also know there are areas of the country where fitness is a desired quality, West Virginia isn't one of them. In fact most states that have low income also lead in obesity. I wish the people that came up with the Walgreen's ad concept could put their talents to a campaign to normalize the human body. I'd also like to see "Naked and Afraid" without blurs. Part of the problem is that I doubt that the FCC will allow any nudity anytime soon. The other part is convincing people that emaciated models are not the norm of bodies that should be seen.

Back to the "I can never do that" comment, we just had that discussion yesterday with our after church group. A few of the women stating that they were not going to wear bathing suits this year because they put on too much weight this winter. I swear women can be their own worst enemies! When I brought up the Walgreen's commercial it was no one would want to see my body. My mention that people on nude beaches could care less, the idea is to enjoy the sun, sand and water without having sand stuck in your suit. Then the discussion quickly broke down into the pervs and others who would want to do harm. Then turned to what the "young" girls were wearing to church. Just like the show on Fox "Outnumbered" there was no way to get a word in after that.

I think what is needed is a national group that would promote nudity period. Not nude recreation behind walls or secluded beaches. Positive promotion of clothes free living, a main stream effort toward body acceptance, basically a life without the clothes! 
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

Bob Knows

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2017, 04:11:25 PM »
I think what is needed is a national group that would promote nudity period. Not nude recreation behind walls or secluded beaches. Positive promotion of clothes free living, a main stream effort toward body acceptance, basically a life without the clothes!


I think that was Lee Baxandall's original idea for the Naturist Society.  The idea that clothes are wrong and unnatural everywhere needs to be promoted more.   

Clothes are unnatural, unhealthy, uncomfortable, ugly, expensive, laborious, unwanted, unneeded, and a complete waste of natural resources (un-green), is a theme that needs to be promoted. 

Calling someone obscene, vulgar, indecent, or even criminal for simply being human is a very offensive misanthropic insult.   This too needs to be promoted and even demanded.  Nudists need to go on the political offensive.

Bob



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Safebare

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2017, 06:13:54 PM »
Political offensive?  Has it come to that?  Lee Baxandall arrived in perfect timing with a cultural shift. I am sure there are similar people today eager to carry the Naturist torch, but finding a ready audience would be insurmountable.
I think our cause may be shifting. It needs to be more than a right to exist in the most natural state. The young will define it. Look for YNA and similar groups to lead the next battles to be accepted in our own skin.
The LGBQT movement has created a diversity adverse group of very vocal and political people. They are among others in the minority and immigrant populous that have pushed the conservatives to react. Now it is encouraged to demand action on even the most innocent of transgressions to their moral compass.
Twice this year I have been detained and punished, not because I was flaunting my nakedness or forcing it on anyone, but the mere awareness that I was nude created the motivation to seek police intervention.
I want to do my part to demonstrate that innocent nudity is just that. But, I don't think I have the metal to go on the political offensive.

Bob Knows

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2017, 07:56:14 PM »

Twice this year I have been detained and punished, not because I was flaunting my nakedness or forcing it on anyone, but the mere awareness that I was nude created the motivation to seek police intervention.

I want to do my part to demonstrate that innocent nudity is just that. But, I don't think I have the metal to go on the political offensive.


I'm sorry you got detained.  I have managed to avoid that problem.  Lee Baxandall made a lot of progress raising awareness, and this is a struggle that continues for lifetimes.  The YNA is good but limited in geography and scope. 

A political campaign needs to be offensive rather than defensive.  We need to be "in their face" demanding acceptance rather than wait for their police to detain us and then begging to be let go. 

We can do the political campaign without being naked.  We can write letters and phone elected representatives.  We can post our concerns and demands for acceptance of human bodies on-line on a thousand forums and discussions.   

This may be a good time to ride the resistance to Islamic oppression of women to include a demand for repeal of all laws requiring clothing, and laws stating that no clothing may be required by police or courts.

There are many things we can do, now, without getting detained.  Its time to take the offense in political campaign rather than being defensive and apologizing for our naturist beliefs.  Their control of OUR bodies is tyranny and their statement that OUR bodies are "indecent" is insulting and wrong.  We need to demand and push rather than retreat and hide. 

There are MANY people on some forums who practice at-home nudity but are afraid ever to go out or even mention it except on confidential web sites. They will follow if we will lead.  Legal nudity is within our reach.

Anyone can write letters or make phone calls to elected officials, or go on line to promote fundamental human RIGHTS to control our own bodies.   We don't have to risk getting detained.

Bob
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John P

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2017, 05:51:01 AM »
"Whose nudity do we really want to see?"

Well, letís see if I can be honest. I want to see my own for starters. I want to be free, in touch, alive, aware, unshackled, comfortable and natural, among other reasons. Next, I want to see everybody elseís nudity complete with smiling, maybe peaceful faces.

So you are asking me to narrow it down and be preferential, perhaps setting myself up to be judgmental. Iíll take the bait. My preference is to see anyone who happens to be near me sharing the nude experience positively. I like images of people enjoying nudity, as well as the real deal. ...

There seems to be a Desmond Morris argument of the attraction to health...

Ponce Ed Leon was not a fluke.

I'm confused by John P.'s remark that most of the men here have wives that would never be seen naked in public. The subject of the flix is naked in solitude. Could someone alleviate my confusion. I just don't understand why there would be any embarrassment.

That was a long posting, JBG, and I haven't got the concentration to respond to all of it. But your first few lines make me want to say that we're friends and brothers. Yes, let's be naked, among naked people, and all of us happy! That's my dream, a re-creation of Eden. (And this time around, no quibbles about apples.)

If the mention of Desmond Morris refers to 'The Naked Ape' then yes, I read it way back in time (I happen to remember, I was a college freshman). But even if we have instincts that propel us in certain directions, we have the ability to think about what we're doing and maybe override those instincts. That's what makes us unique among animals, surely? And if we have an objective of making the human body acceptable in public, then we can't let it seem to be a desire to see a few boobs or butts. You might even say that by being a little sneaky, the number of [insert name of favorite erogenous zone] on view would increase, if we just get past the urge to call for the display of those parts immediately.

"Ponce Ed Leon" makes me think you can take a talking horse to the fountain of youth, but you can't make it drink. Or something.

Regarding the confusing part, you've neglected my bitter comment that pornography is another area where young women are the preferred group to be exhibited. If men want to join nudist groups but have wives who avoid nudity, maybe that happens because the women see naturism as a sexualized display, much more interesting to men than to themselves. And if we keep making "naturist" material that features the same demographic group as porn (i.e. young women) don't we risk making that seem likely? We might reassure the hesitant wives--or even ourselves if we're inclined to cynical doubts--if we made sure that any naturist material that we praise, at least features a good mix of ages, genders and body types.

eyesup

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2017, 04:46:03 PM »
[/quote=JohnP]And if we naturists are going to claim to shake off old-fashioned ideas about nudity, then I think we should be the first ones asking awkward questions such as "Whose nudity do we really want to see?"[/quote]
Any person that wishes to be normally naked.

Quote from: then
. . . as I said in an earlier comment, here we are, a bunch of mature men, most of us with wives who'll never be seen naked in public, discussing a movie with a naked woman as the sole performer. Shouldn't we be finding that a little embarrassing?

Nope! As I responded to the mood of the clip and the symbolic stripping away of the stress.
If, as you assert, it was done INTENTIALLY with a ĎBabeí I would agree with you.

But Iím not embarrassed by the behavior of someone else.

Duane


eyesup

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2017, 05:03:05 PM »
Jbee, as far as I can tell, the Desmond Morris argument would apply to young people and older folks emotionally stuck in high school or college.

I separate the effects of seeing nudity essentially into two groups. The physically attractive and personally attractive. The former being motivated solely by appearance and the latter by a further effort to become acquainted through conversation. Which can lead, depending on the resulting conversation, to a quick termination of the effort.

As far as exclusively using Ďgood lookingí young people in advertising, I agree with Jbee and JohnP. I think there should be BOTH. Older and younger to show the widespread appeal of being naked in creation.

I do agree with JohnP with regard to the hard bodies becoming identifiable with any aspect of porn, but that is very much related to content. If more programs and ads had everyday innocent nudity, the porn influence would begin to be reduced. I suppose itís that aspect of the forbidden or taboo that causes such a preoccupation with that.

At any rate, JohnP makes a good point about the focus on pretty females. Having pretty females, and males, mixed in with all of us ordinary folks would be the preferred method. I just donít see why I should alter my thinking on whether a person that is attractive, in my judgement, should be one or the other.

Any effort to marginalise a group, even for a good reason, always results in a marginalized group. We should be more careful of that than anything.

JohnP, I understand what you mean about the sexualized display of females having a distracting effect. Naturist efforts to normalize nudity will never succeed until normal people are also included in the advertising. I agree with your point.

But the last thing I would want is yet another governing body regulating this sort of thing. Naturists seem to be a sort of organic type of a group. The thing that makes it appealing would be harmed by the formation any sort regulation.

So, we soldier on, setting an example and, as Bob says, get in their face when needed.

Duane

nuduke

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Re: Stress reliever
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2017, 08:12:36 PM »

Quote from: Bob
We are not all young hot bodies any more.
I never was!! :D
John