Author Topic: Eradicating Prudism  (Read 7363 times)

John P

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2017, 11:46:12 PM »
I don't disagree with any of the ideas put forth regarding how prudish behavior affect others. But I have never had a fear of being near a prude. ...

After your recent conflict with your neighbor, I'm surprised you're saying that. That incident backs up what JohnGW just said, unfortunately.

jbeegoode

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2017, 12:40:37 AM »
It think about it every day, but to be fair, they have to endure their own disassociation, polarity and themselves. For all around, they are a nuisance, if not a plague. They are ashamed of themselves, bothered by others, constricted in their natural flow, fearful of their own being. Live with that. Imagine having to police the world, the stress, the resulting uptight.
Jbee
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nuduke

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2017, 03:22:17 PM »


 I agree with Ian's views.  Whilst the article's central theme attacking prudery I can support, having been a recent victim, I can't judge that author and article to be one I'd take any notice of because of its vacuously obsessive tone and poor logical flow (although I only skimmed it).  Mind you this sentence made me think:
"The children-are-harmed-by-nudity meme can be counteracted by memes such as ‘children are harmed by prudishness’, ‘prudes are sexually abusing their children by teaching them body-shame’"
Quite a powerful thought because seemingly the vast majority of western humanity are prudes to some extent (can't speak for any other continents!) and almost everyone gets taught body shame in childhood and passes it on to their children in turn.  Perhaps someone should indeed do something to create more open mindedness, mutual acceptance and body tolerance by highlighting the damage done by our apparently 'normal', 'natural' behaviour.
John
 

Peter S

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 04:25:04 PM »
It's very difficult to persuade someone they are wrong when they don't know why they are wrong.

"Why shouldn't so-and-so walk around naked?"
"Because it's wrong"
"Why is it wrong?"
"It just is, everyone knows that"

They've been brought up with a particular understanding/belief/code without it ever being explained or rationalised. Challenge this, ask them to explain why or how it is wrong, and they can't, which makes them angry and defensive, and you've immediately lost them to any sort of discussion. Ditto the "what about the children and old people" argument. It just is!!!!


peter
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eyesup

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2017, 05:05:34 PM »
While cultural norms (sic) vary from nation to nation and century to century, the mores swing like a pendulum do. Rules, laws and yes, moral code are in place for a reason. Unrestrained behavior will tend to extremes in the absence of the rules. Those will change depending on location and/or period.

The problem isn’t the tenor of flavor of the rules but the nature of the behavior they are intended to control. Humanity has discovered, courtesy of historians, that we have an amazing ability to plumb the depths or scale the heights of the human experiment and achievement. We are often either horrified or astounded at the results.

At the end of the day it all comes down to what lies in the heart of the individual. And that is the main problem with human behavior. Those issues aren’t fixed with a law or self-help book. A consistent and proven solution over time will correct it but it will be a slow process. Fixing those motivations in people will take generations. Most likely we will not see it.

Quote from: Nuduke
Perhaps someone should indeed do something to create more open mindedness, mutual acceptance and body tolerance by highlighting the damage done by our apparently 'normal', 'natural' behaviour.
We do that through our actions. Each in our own way.
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. :P

Change happens when positive results are seen. Only then will everyday nudity be seen as ‘normal’. Of course another human problem is impatience.

Duane

nudewalker

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2017, 05:59:23 PM »
The past week or so has kept me close to home; actually mostly in the house, as we deal with a few medical and mechanical emergencies. so, trying to be the supportive husband, I've have spent most of the time close to Mrs. Walker to help her with decisions and discussions as new problems crop up. That means two things; first, I've been watching lots of daytime television and second, I've not worn clothes for days. So without going into detail of our problems let me make a few observations of what I saw and heard.

On Wendy Williams Show a pastors wife asked how to deal with the young women who show up at church dressed more for the club than church. Wendy's answer was be happy they are there! Why turn them off or away because YOU think it's inappropriate! Then on a second show which is the Talk a comment was made about how someone was dressed. One panelist admitted that it was not how the woman was dressed but that she didn't feel comfortable with her body to dress that way. In the first case the prudish behavior was ingrained by religious norms. In the second case, the comments that sounded like prudish behavior was actually jealousy.

I agree with Duane, rules, laws and moral code are in place for a reason. The problem arises when a select few get to determine how the rest of us will abide by their views. My circle of friends constantly bring up how restrictive Muslim countries are with regards to dress but are we that much freer? As long as there is any type of restriction for clothing or lack thereof is in my opinion against my right to pursuit of happiness. Despite all evidence to the contrary many people refuse to believe that nudity isn't harmful. With the new found lack of faith in science that seems to be overtaking this country any type of rational discussion is unlikely.

"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

eyesup

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2017, 07:20:46 PM »
I occasionally see one of those talk shows and am always amused at the duplicity. In the case of women hosts commenting on the dress of others, other women in particular, it is ironic that they are themselves pushing the boundaries they claim the others have crossed.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2017, 07:35:36 PM »
While cultural norms (sic) vary from nation to nation and century to century, the mores swing like a pendulum do. Rules, laws and yes, moral code are in place for a reason. Unrestrained behavior will tend to extremes in the absence of the rules. Those will change depending on location and/or period.

The problem isn’t the tenor of flavor of the rules but the nature of the behavior they are intended to control. Humanity has discovered, courtesy of historians, that we have an amazing ability to plumb the depths or scale the heights of the human experiment and achievement. We are often either horrified or astounded at the results.

At the end of the day it all comes down to what lies in the heart of the individual. And that is the main problem with human behavior. Those issues aren’t fixed with a law or self-help book. A consistent and proven solution over time will correct it but it will be a slow process. Fixing those motivations in people will take generations. Most likely we will not see it.

Quote from: Nuduke
Perhaps someone should indeed do something to create more open mindedness, mutual acceptance and body tolerance by highlighting the damage done by our apparently 'normal', 'natural' behaviour.
We do that through our actions. Each in our own way.
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. :P

Change happens when positive results are seen. Only then will everyday nudity be seen as ‘normal’. Of course another human problem is impatience.

Duane
If, you bite a living elephant, there are consequences.

 Prude Definition by M-B:  "a person who is excessively or priggishly attentive to propriety or decorum; especially :  a woman who shows or affects extreme modesty." What's with the "especially a woman" thing?

What is extreme? Who makes these calls? Why is there a law at all? Is that the place of law, I don't see it. When nudity becomes an annoyance, the law needs to address annoyance, but as something else entirely different from mere nudity.

Here are plenty of examples of prudery being harmful:

Again, it is our own selves. Prudery damages people. Nudity does not damage people. Nudity doesn't damage children, it is the prudish response to it that damages children. Children, then adults, get body image issues, unrealistic physical expectations, lack of acceptance and intolerance ingrained and very toxic shame. People commit suicide, live shutdown lives, get daily negative responses about themselves, harass each other, believe less of themselves, all of which starts in childhood. Repression of the body and dirty ideas instead of wholesome ideas associated with humanities temple create rape, frustration, exclusion, boundary issues and make rape a power play. A few are put above the rest, when we are all beautiful. Costumes create imagined self images, keeping people from reality and egalitarian compassion and their own humanity. People get addicted to clothing for their very acceptance of themselves, a very limiting strategy. Sexual relationships are very often encased in fantasy, dirty totally replaces the intimacy, sharing, caring and the bonding involved. Prudes do all of this and more. That's just off of the top of my head.

With all of this, and these are seen in the media, why are prudes ruling our lives? I suppose because it runs very deep , because prudes ingrained it and the culture continues.

The alternative is filled with unknown benefits, because prudes will not allow human beings to experience themselves as such. Prudes teach repression, fear, shame, even self hate. Ageism the infatuation with youth and diminution of elders is directly contributed to by textile prudery and it is rampant.

We here know of many of the benefits of a lack of prudery, but what would it be like without it? Would more people be better attached to their own humanity and a part of nature? Would they better value the gifts of God than the man-made concrete jungle? Would they be happier in their moment with all senses than the massage of the news media? I don't know what that effect would have in general, but many many more would certainly be happier, healthier better adjusted, instead of a continuum to extremes of displeasure and despair.

Extreme behavior is caused by rules, not the absence of them. People are generally good to be around when left alone with only a few aberrations. When you manipulate their nature, they get messed up in mass. They form armies and kill each other. Do you have faith that people will do what they feel is the best considerate thing most of the time, or do you believe that people will inevitably get out of hand? Do you generally trust human nature, or do you live in fear? Are you a prude or a naturist?

The answer from prudes to address many of these issues is to put children in dull uniforms, or burkas. What does that say about a free society and the flourishing of human potential? These prudes are not just an issue for we as naturists, but as human beings.

Now then, what can be done "just short" of stringing a few of them up, stoning them, scarlet "P's,"or public whippings?
Jbee
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nuduke

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2017, 08:19:33 PM »

From this thread of discussion, I feel very much amongst like minded and enlightened people!


I had always imagined, in the How-do-you-eat-an-elephant? conundrum, that before commencing the piece by piece mastication of the pachyderm that it had been cooked, ready for human consumption!


A man walks into a deli just before closing time and orders an elephant sandwich.
The assistant mumbles an embarrassed refusal.
"But it's on the menu!" says the man "I want my elephant sandwich".
"Just a moment" replies the assistant and goes to fetch the manager who promptly arrives.
"I'm sorry sir" says the manager, "I really don't want to slice into a fresh elephant just for one sandwich!  Do feel free to come back tomorrow.  Could I offer you a Hippo Roll?"


John

eyesup

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2017, 09:14:33 PM »
Quote from: article
Prudes are people who are suffering from prudism.

Wrong:
Nudists are people who suffer from prudism.

Think about it.  ???
Tru dat!

Duane

eyesup

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2017, 09:19:54 PM »
I don't disagree with any of the ideas put forth regarding how prudish behavior affect others. But I have never had a fear of being near a prude. ...

After your recent conflict with your neighbor, I'm surprised you're saying that. That incident backs up what JohnGW just said, unfortunately.

I am getting older but uhhhh . . . errr . . . Remind me of the conflict. I don't recall it.  :-\

Duane

John P

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2017, 10:33:29 PM »
I am very sorry, my advancing age is what's causing the problem, not yours. The trouble with the neighbor was actually a story from Safebare. It was in the Police Voyeur thread.

Time I headed for the naked old folks' home I'm afraid.

jbeegoode

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2017, 09:02:03 AM »
Oh John P. I just gotta drift on that one. I was thinking just recently, what if I got old and couldn't live independently and had to move to an old folks place or in with relatives. Where would my sunshine come from? Could I actually endure that circumstance? Older folks could use some air-bath, sunshine, and sensuality, too.

Maybe a naked/nude retirement center and assisted living it a niche group and a biz opp.
Jbee
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Bob Knows

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2017, 01:57:19 PM »
Maybe a naked/nude retirement center and assisted living it a niche group and a biz opp.
Jbee

Good suggestion.   I'm likely to be needing that kind of place in another couple of decades.



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nudewalker

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Re: Eradicating Prudism
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2017, 04:35:54 PM »
There are a few places that I've seen which offered laundry and sun tan booth in the same venue. My daughter and I would like to open a nudist venue; do all your laundry including the clothes on your back while lounging in our coffee bar, relaxing with a good book or use our wifi or take advantage of our outside deck or tanning beds. Maybe I'll have to pitch the idea of a nude retirement center; nursing staff for minor problems, heated pool for recreation and exercise, a common dining room for meals, a locker room for visitors and 100% nude. It would have to be in a warmer climate however as heating bills would break the budget this far north.
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson