Hydration, sweat response and temperature

[jbeegoode]

So, I see that getting naked and drinking BEER with friends is a viable cure for a hot day, perhaps one of the best. I've been told that drinking BEER on a hot day makes people more thirsty and not the best liquid solution. My personal research has tended to disagree with that, especially after a few Heinekens, when I could present my best arguments.

So, in hot dry weather naked bodies perform much better than clothed ones, unless there is loose fitting soaking wet shirts on the torso. This was abundantly evident during our last hike up to Romero pools, when I looked behind me to see naked DF holding her white shirt above her head as she walks. It trailed from the movement in the breeze and leveled out enough to make some shade. Nothing got in the way of the air over her, her bodies natural defense for heat and and the sense of relief written on her face, even pleasure (Trip Report, next week or the next). The biology is pretty clear. The Arabs seem the have it wrong, especially those in black.

Now, in a humid day what have we for evidence of the obvious superiority of the naturally efficient lack of clothes. DF and I soaked our shirts in the pools. She put hers on and it chilled her immediately and for a distance, but dried in five or ten minutes. Mine was partly trapped under my pack and shoulder straps and stayed hot soaked. Around my neck, it cooled for awhile, but eventually became somewhat hot. A Hawaii rayon shirt hangs loose, breeze flows up and around making an evaporative cooling effect, but is this more efficient than naturally naked? Does such a shirt shade from the sun?
Jbee

[JOhnGw]

Two points:
- The BEER drunk by miners and foundry workers would not only replace fluids but also calories and minerals lost.
- The dark Arab robes tend to create more convection currents than light coloured ones would do thus giving a cooling effect and when all day in fierce sun the head to toe covering is essential to avoid sunburn.

[ric]

the old boys round here will tell you home brewed farmhouse cider is the only thing to drink whilst slaving away in the fields on a hot day,

 apple juice with the odd drowned rodent fermented using the natural yeasts on the apples.

[jbeegoode]

I'm playing with and reading up on fermented foods, getting slowly more into it. I haven't come across drowned rat! Is this a literal thing or just the wobbly garbage on the top? Is it just a derogatory snip to the farmers and their brew? Have you the recipe? I'm imagining a local southwestern brew of the indigenous Kangaroo Rat served as a delicacy at a local craft brewery. I can see it bottled with the tail still sitting at the bottom to effect, like the worm in Tequila. What is the alcohol content of such a connivance? I'm getting more and more vegetarian by the moment...even vegan!

Local Native Americans used to feed pack rats around their huts. When they were ripe, kids would grab them and place a stick up through the butt for the fire...delicacy.
Jbee

[eyesup]

The BEER drunk by miners and foundry workers would not only replace fluids but also calories and minerals lost.

Abbey Ales were developed by monks for the similar reasons. When fasting, the monks were trying to mitigate the physical effects of the fast. The heavy ales they developed were sometimes referred to as liquid bread. God bless them!

Duane

[jbeegoode]

After a fast, I consume probiotic fermented foods and drinks. It is apparently a very old part of people. The drinks that I drink are only less than 1% alcohol. You'd have to drown in the stuff...like a rat...to get a buzz. One kombucha out of Colorado taste like a good home brew. Another in reminiscent of a Rose' wine and a good sip...nude and natural.
Jbee

[JOhnGw]

It is traditional that scrumpy has a dead rat thrown into the vat while the cider is fermenting. I have no idea whether this is true or only folklore (AKA urban myth) butis certainly well known in the UK.

[ric]

the dead rat is supposed to give the cider that extra something.... quite what the alcohol content of good scrumpy is ive no idea but a small amount can make  walking difficult.

the basic principle is sugar is turned into alcohol by yeast , the sweeter the apple juice the more sugar there is , but the alcohol eventually kills the yeast so there is a limit. i think its somewhere arround 15%... unless you distil (or freeze)  to get rid of some of the water

hobby wine makers can by different strains of yeast with different alcohol tolerences... i just used to use the high alcohol one.

my brother in laws are rather heavy beer drinkers but half a bottle of blackberry wine will see them fall off their perches.

now im heading for retirement ill maybe get back into wine making, weve pleanty of blackberries and plums that dont get utilised, and apples but id need to sort some sort of mechanised juice press to start cider making.... the soft fruit is soo much easier.    as was the sprout peelings, but thats an experiment that wont get repeated.

[eyesup]

This sounds suspiciously like urban legends.   

Duane

[Greenbare Woods]

This sounds suspiciously like urban legends.   

Duane

That's pretty much what I was thinking.

[jbeegoode]

Yup, but I bought this thick book by Sandor Katz on fermentation and people have been eating some pretty strange stuff through the years. Take some cheeses for example.

If the local Native Americans can eat rat and others eat insects and think much of it, why not.
Jbee

[eyesup]

Reminds me of Jack Carter as the Paris street hawker in Mel Brooks', History of the World, Part II.

"Rats, rats for sale. Get your rats. Good for rat stew, rat soup, or the ever-popular ratatouille.”

Duane

[nuduke]

The dark Arab robes tend to create more convection currents than light coloured ones would do thus giving a cooling effect and when all day in fierce sun the head to toe covering is essential to avoid sunburn.

JOhn, I believe the light versus dark robes cooling effect is is a myth.  I came across this concept some years ago after visiting Morocco and the memory of how is a bit dim but it was to do with the constant debate amongst N. African nations and tribes as to which is cooler, the dark robes or the reflective white ones.  I happened upon a scientific study to find this out.  Proper research and proper peer reviewed paper in a journal as I recall.  Years later I came across another article that reported a later investigation into the same thing (I have a very vague memory indeed that it might have been the recipient of an IgNobel prize - but don't quote me - memory fades).  By wiring up djellabas with arrays of thermocouples, UV and air circulation detection and whatnot they found no difference between the two varieties of robe.  What you got by way of temperature control depended more on what you were doing in a given locale for each garment type.
Whilst of course the conclusion has stuck in memory, the source of the paper and the other article fails me and I can't be arsed (Lat: Non Possum Podex) to research it again but maybe one of you true geeks out there might have come across it or might be minded to look it up to put JGW and self in the know.

Abbey Ales were developed by monks for the similar reasons. When fasting, the monks were trying to mitigate the physical effects of the fast. The heavy ales they developed were sometimes referred to as liquid bread. God bless them!

Gosh that's interesting, Duane.  Some years ago I went on a 'tour' of the strong Trappist beers of Belgium and Holland (by sampling those I could buy in UK) and never came across that fact but it makes every sense as many of the dark alcoholic monastic beers are very 'nourishing' to say the least.


Scrumpy:  I've never had proper scrumpy because of a particular experience whilst visiting Taunton, Somerset, home of cider brewing, for work.  My local colleague took me to the pub at lunchtime and warned me off sampling the local scrumpy as there was 100% likelihood of it giving one the squits!  Even acclimatised locals would drink the cloudy brew in moderation.  Sipping a cooling lager or more likely a glass of bitter, I commented to my colleague on the somewhat insalubrious condition of the pub and the rather patchy, threadbare carpet.  "That" he commented "is the effect of spilt scrumpy.  It rots the carpet!  Be warned about drinking the stuff".
I have no idea to this day if that was true or a leg-pull, but I've not sampled scrumpy on the one or two visits to Somerset in the ensuing several decades!


John

[ric]

if there was carpet in the pub it probably wasnt proper scrumpy,  its normally only found in out of the way small village pubs with straw or sawdust on the floors.... getting harder to find now.

the stuff brewed by taunton cider co was mass produced flavoured water.   little better than the stuff produced up hereford way.

[jbeegoode]

I recognize the difference between a black/dark car and a light/whits one here in this Arizona heat. You see a person in a black car and it is assumed that that is a recent arrival from another state. Stepping into dark rubber shoes left in the sun, the difference between dark and light granite in the sun, all of this makes the dark material seem foolish. Black adsorbs the heat and white reflects it. The difference is dramatic. I feel the difference wearing my black t-shirt instead of my light color one.

The type of materiel allows the air to breath through, the bigger the holes the better ventilation.

The wet cloth cools, but if it is soaked in hot water it gets hot. The water in a garden gets hot in the hose under the sun, and black hose is best for solar hot water systems, this is what a wadded rag does. You unwad it and hold it to the air to cool it. Does hot water evaporate and cool better and quicker, maybe, but does it get cooler quicker? No, it is farther to cool down hot to a lower temperature.

Loose thin clothing helps the ventilation, there is a cooling effect, the skin picks that up. It is obvious. There is an evporative effect. You don't paint an evaporative cooler on your roof black, it needs to blow cool air.

I just don't see the logic of wearing black on a hot day. A black hat is noticeably hotter. Black clothing helps keep people warm.

I heard about these people in black years ago in a desert in which it turned cold at night. I have heard of a habit of traveling in the cool of the night for some people, I know that some deserts are cool and cold and perhaps these are the places that these nomads developed the use of black absorption instead of light reflective. They are compelled to wear a full covering as Muslims. 

Skin is best, shade is better, an umbrella and naked works better. I can know this when the clouds come over, when wearing a brim on my hat. I can know this, as a light breeze hits my body on a hot day, and what happens on my back where the backpack covers my body, and the sweat doesn't evaporate and cool me. We are geared to be naked in the heat. Our skin learns to accept more sun, if it gets a tan slowly. Some races are acclimated to sun better than others. Some are acclimated to lack of water, cold or altitude, too. We can rest during the heat of the day in shade, it is natural to do that.

Nothing logical, nor anything in my experience has shown me that it is better to wear black clothing in a hot desert. I wear a light color umbrella, or hat.
Jbee