Author Topic: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend  (Read 545 times)

John P

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
    • View Profile
    • My naturist page
German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« on: November 28, 2020, 02:44:41 AM »
Someone on another forum posted this video from German TV, about a new official clothing-optional hiking trail there. It's worth a look even if you don't speak German, just to see how they've hidden all the usual objectionable body parts without being too obvious with the censorship! But I thought it was a good thing that they've got this official trail.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d65tijuysxft507/Nordmagazin-Erster%20offizieller%20FKK-Wanderweg%20in%20MV%20geplant-1642390886.mp4?dl=0

So I sent the link to my friend Rainer (pronounced Rye-ner) whom I met on the Naked European Walking Tour, and who then joined two other friends and me in New Zealand last year, and he's also one of the organizers of the Natury website in Germany. I asked if he knew about this trail, and he responded quickly but with a very negative view. He has an outlook like the body freedom activists Vincent Bethell and Steve Gough in Britain, saying that anything official is going to be a "tolerated ghetto" designed to keep naturists in confinement! Whereas my friends here would be ready to accept any such concession gratefully. I wonder what people here would think. Here's Rainer's message:

Dear John,
I've heard of that, I don't like it at all, and I've never been there, I will definitely not go to that place under any circumstances, and I'm not a friend of "official naked hiking trails", because that can / could / might bring some limited-thinking, unsane in mind people to the idea:

"Oh, there are some official nude hiking trails: That means, that elsewhere nude hiking is not allowed!"

That is -- due to my opinion, a very bad idea -- because some people with such an unsane mindset try to ringfence naturists:
https://www.nordkurier.de/neustrelitz/offizieller-weg-soll-wildes-nacktwandern-in-sichere-bahnen-lenken-2934416801.html
Therefore, there is an article on the natury website as a counterstatement:
https://www.natury.de/index.php/uk/nude-hiking-park-germany

Herzliche Gre | With best wishes,
Rainer

jbeegoode

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4330
    • View Profile
Re: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2020, 05:18:32 AM »
It is already generally not okay with authorities to nude hike anywhere here. So, nothing is lost.

I suppose that it is akin to free beaches. It is good and nice to have a place for newbies to get their feet wet and feel safe about it. It is good advertising and word will get out that nude hiking is a wonderful healthy wholesome thing to do. It is not good when we begin to get penned in, like chickens in designated areas. Is it moving forward? Maybe, maybe not.

I saw those people laying in the grass and it occurred to me that they might be exhausted. Any idea how long the trail is? Where does it go. The water looked good to me.
Jbee

Barefoot all over, all over.

ric

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2020, 09:11:26 AM »
I've always beenof the opinion that designated areas imply everywhere else is off limits.....which is not the case in uk and much of europe.

There is also the perceived  problem of designated naturist areas with free access becoming well known to the general public and attracting the voyeurs and perverts.   Generally I avoid the well known officially designated naturist beaches on the uk south coast....if I want to visit a beach I'll just find a quiet one .

Peter S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
    • View Profile
Re: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2020, 11:48:47 AM »
There's a range of opinions to be heard among UK naturists. Many are still of the mindset that clubs and designated beaches are the right way to go, thus avoiding offending others and giving themselves comfortable boundaries. Others of us welcomed the legal clarification of a couple of years back, that as public nudity was not, in itself, illegal, then naked anywhere was perfectly all right and to be encouraged when possible. I can see the American viewpoint, where pressures and rules are different (though they also seem to vary widely from state to state and even county to county) but I'm with Rainer that designating official zones presents a ghetto mentality, and gives others (the "authorities") sanction over free and legal activities.
____________________________________
Motorcycling, history, country hiking,
naked living

Bob Knows

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
    • View Profile
    • Greenbare Photos
Re: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2020, 06:07:45 PM »
I've always beenof the opinion that designated areas imply everywhere else is off limits....

That's my view too.  Designation one out of the way place for clothing optional tells the world that clothes are required everywhere else.  Not beneficial for nudism.
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
To see more of Bob you can view his personal photo page
http://www.photos.bradkemp.com/greenbare.html

nuduke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1787
    • View Profile
Re: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2020, 06:35:11 PM »
There's a range of opinions to be heard among UK naturists. Many are still of the mindset that clubs and designated beaches are the right way to go, thus avoiding offending others and giving themselves comfortable boundaries. Others of us welcomed the legal clarification of a couple of years back, that as public nudity was not, in itself, illegal, then naked anywhere was perfectly all right and to be encouraged when possible. I can see the American viewpoint, where pressures and rules are different (though they also seem to vary widely from state to state and even county to county) but I'm with Rainer that designating official zones presents a ghetto mentality, and gives others (the "authorities") sanction over free and legal activities.
I can see both points of view.  On those occasions I have visited a naturist club the feeling of freedom from the need to keep a lookout was very pleasant and not having to porter a load of 'stuff' for undressing mid hike and dressing if encounters a possibility.  However, clubs are very boring!  Usually having little land, perhaps a patch of adjacent woodland, all you can do it sunbathe, swim etc repeatedly.  It is no wonder they have adopted petanque and miniten - it is just something to do!  So I agree as well with the severally stated opinion that designating a place automatically implies other places are prohibited. 
But in the UK we nowadays have clubs and a fairly liberal attitude to nudity in public places so hopefully both freehiking and clubs can coexist without implying either one is not permitted. 
I would welcome the widespread and official recognition that nude people like to and do hike/walk/sit in natural surroundings and designation of some great pieces of countryside that are permitted for nude hiking (or whatever - nude, fishing, sitting, picnicking etc).  Hopefully the creation of such areas would a) become more frequent and widespread due to pressure from nudists such that they all merge and join up to make nude hiking possible anywhere and b) come with the acceptance that nude people like to and do hike and therefore clearer public and legal system awareness that with the current rules, nude walking could happen anywhere, despite the creation of specifically emancipated areas.
I am aware, of course, that this is idealistic but expresses the other side of the coin from the simple binary of the view that creating permitted places implies all other places are not permitted.
John

jbeegoode

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4330
    • View Profile
Re: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 06:30:25 AM »
Both strategies seem useful to me, depending what there is to work with, New naturists looking for a safe place, or relaxation away from potential legal problems. It is more difficult to be out in the open here.

On the other hand, if I was an authority and wanting to control nudity, I'd "out of sight, out of mind" the nudity to reservations. This has been the strategy for decades in this country and it hasn't changed much of anything. I think sanctioned nude areas are stagnating the forward movement, even if they are growing as a business. They are sometimes a dead end and sometimes an experience to get feet wet. More people have lasting positive transformative experiences at Black's Beach than reading here, or the like. The problem, resorts promote themselves as the only way.

The way to change is normalize nude bodies, by media, by demonstration, by talk and education. Read, my stats in the article that I just published on TheFreeRangeNaturist.org and it looks almost like a majority really don't care, or could be easily swayed, if a discussion happened with them.

I just want to see an end to the stigma and out and out persecution, for now. We are still hopeful, that after this covid thing ends that we can turn Redington Pass into a designated liberated area. It feels like a step in the right direction, it is ground gained and  the ground needs to be defended. One way to get the PAss clear is to utilize the group in petition at the local resorts. There is a group of our nude fellowship there, who are not against free ranging. They are gathered and bonded and that is useful. I figure most are not accepting the business's reservation mentality, most didn't get there without trying some home nudity, or friends, or reading about it. There are few places to experience social nudity, without these designated spots, and less change would take place.

I don't think that resorts are all bad and are affecting people that much to say of themselves that they doing something that is inappropriate by being nude. I think that it is the contrary, and trapped or not, they are nudists and more apt to listen to us.

When nudity is legal, I still believe that there will be a place for the resorts. A public education is needed and that is a vehicle for education. It is a place for people to have experience, without fear. When I spend a few days totally nude and accepted as such at a resort or gathering, clothing becomes uncomfortable and silly. It creates the kind of attitude that makes someone a free range naturist. I learn that nudity is appropriate, fun, not such a huge deal. if I have that experience in a safe more idyllic place.

Many of those people being interviewed in Germany were newbies. Let them be safe and be around others. The other message in the film report was "Hey, we're having the time of a our lives, getting naked makes a huge difference, this is GREAT!"

That is a message. The WNBR is designated, but naked is fun, and that lots of people do it without personal consequence is encouraging.
Jbee
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 06:40:28 AM by jbeegoode »
Barefoot all over, all over.

Peter S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
    • View Profile
Re: German TV feature, and a response by a German friend
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 05:07:11 PM »
Quote
New naturists looking for a safe place

I feel like I might be taking words out of Bob Knows' keyboard here, but the more familiar people get with the naked body the easier it will be for new naturists to try it out, and perhaps the more likely people will become new naturists if they see it's normal.
____________________________________
Motorcycling, history, country hiking,
naked living