Nude in Public

[ric]

There's a rumour over here That trump used to own a casino untill it went bankrupt ..has he really got the brains to be president, let alone the moralls

[Greenbare Woods]

There's a rumour over here That trump used to own a casino untill it went bankrupt ..has he really got the brains to be president, let alone the moralls

Political advocacy is pretty much off topic for this forum.  Whatever you are reading in biased corporate media in the UK is not worth repeating. 

One of many Trump business ventures was a casino in Atlantic City, NJ, USA.   It was successful for years until political changes brought hard times to the whole casino industry in Atlantic City.  ALL the casinos in Atlantic City suffered the same fate.  But it was only one of over 500 successful business ventures owned by Trump. 

[jbeegoode]

Putting politics aside. Trump has been in bankruptcy several times. The casino never really had good times, if he ended up not paying several contractors and bankrupting them. I think Bob's information is incorrect, but yes the casino thing was a mess for many operators. It was seen as an opportunity to get rich like Vegas, but couldn't live up to those standards. It just wasn't a good investment. He also got caught being over extended during the real-estate market crash in the late 1970's and the 10% inflation rates that were happening during the OPEC oil embargo times.

He has had several bad apple ventures, from fake universities to weird steaks, but has always protected his brand and PR in spite of these predatory ventures. When you have access to money, and diversify into many businesses, you'll tend to average out positive. Trump seems to have made a net gain finally, although he is facing several felony convictions in concern with lying to get that money lent to him. He's been ruthless, kicking people out of their homes, using eminent domain, racist profiling, bankrupting others to make fortune.

He knows how to find advisors and pawns to get around the system, the principles of law and his taxes, like many wealthy do. For him, if it ain't illegal, then it's moral, it would seem. He maybe the greatest flimflam man in history. By that, he is brilliant.

Would he make a good four more years? No comment here, too political, just the facts.

There is a documentary on youtube about his golf course in your neck of the woods. I shows how he has played the game of business.
Jbee

[nuduke]

Gentlemen,
We seem to be getting into the realms of adversarial political dialectic here and little mention of the beautiful business of living naked.  Just saying....
John

[jbeegoode]

I just went ahead and looked at Wikipedia to check against my memory. It's all in there and before he ever announced candidacy in I think 2016. These aren't political facts, or after winning his election, or holding office facts. It is just business resume, autobiographical. I have consistently been repulsed by the guy, even back in the 1970's when I read about his behaviors and values and ethics.
Jbee

[Peter S]

There is a documentary on youtube about his golf course in your neck of the woods

It's called "You've Been Trumped", and there's a podcast series by the same name (try BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcast...). Have to say that DJT and his organisation do not come out of it well.

[Greenbare Woods]

It's called "You've Been Trumped", and there's a podcast series by the same name (try BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcast...). Have to say that DJT and his organisation do not come out of it well.

Its not surprising that a plethora of political attacks are happening before the Election next month.  But what does that have to do with being nude in public, or being nude anywhere? 

[jbeegoode]

The flick came out several years ago in response to Trump business antics across the pond, by people from there. I suppose that the documentary has garnered more interest since he became so unpopular with people who could previously care less about him. It has f gotten more attention during the last eight years, or so, since he became so political and alarming, pissing people off. It has popped up as an option on my Youtube listings several times this election year. Lots of viewers are generating a viral reaction.

Yup, a clear example of our tendency to have topic drift.

Redirection: I never heard of anyone being shot for being nude in public. I did attend a series of Grateful Dead concerts in Red Rocks near Denver, back in the 80's. There was one very tripped out looking fella that I saw in the distance at an entrance that was grabbed and beaten, dragged around for being nude in public. It ticked me off as  remember, an over reaction, predatory brutality and completely out of the spirit of a Dead concert atmosphere, by the police. The police were protecting no one. No one would be upset, if anything, they'd be supportive, or accepting of a naked reveler. It made no sense. He was dancing and having a great time and then he was grabbed, knocked down and dragged out, (hmm, that's a Dead lyric) and naked.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

It ticked me off as  remember, an over reaction, predatory brutality and completely out of the spirit of a Dead concert atmosphere, by the police. The police were protecting no one. No one would be upset, if anything, they'd be supportive, or accepting of a naked reveler. It made no sense. He was dancing and having a great time and then he was grabbed, knocked down and dragged out, (hmm, that's a Dead lyric) and naked.
Jbee

The Police in America are NOT ever tasked with protecting anyone. Not their job (SCOTUS).  They are there to protect politicians and enforce totalitarian conformity.

Most police are too lazy to get their fat asses out of their cars.  That's why we can get away with hiking naked away from roads and parking lots.

[jbeegoode]

I've had contact with both types of cops. Those as you mention, the pigs, the fascist, the.....

And there have been a smattering of dedicated guys that gave me a reasonable break. It is amazing how differently a white guy with a kid that he is taking to school gets treated, opposed to a long haired kid driving a VW bug at night.

I think there is a spectrum, power with good and bad moods and attitudes and opinions that get out of hand. I think that some cops get way wrapped up in the game, entering service with good intentions.

I remember protesting several years ago during the Tortolita Wars against some politicians who were backed by evil donors that were having a public meeting. The cop came up to me and my young son, who was participating telling us to leave. It so happened that my attorney was standing there. He asked the cop, "You're sworn to uphold the constitution of the United States, aren't you?
Cop replied ,"Yes."
"Have you heard of the First Amendment?"
This literally stunned the cop. He apologized to me and walked over to the politicians to tell them that he couldn't do anything.

I figure that the same spectrum would apply to getting caught nude minding your own business. It is the same with judges in my experience and what lawyers tell me. Now, what if one bumped into an off duty cop way out on a trail?
Jbee

[Davie]

 How lucky we are in the UK. It's been agreed with the National College of Policing that simple nudity is entirely lawful and call handlers should inform callers that is the case. Police should only respond if there's an element of sexual behaviour, e.g. flashing or there's a likelihood that the naked person has a mental health issue, for example going out at night in pouring rain and making silly phone calls. This did happen to a seriously disturbed retired doctor. He was treated with sympathy and care.

Twice my walking group have been approached by Police and twice on viewing the College of Policing advice they've backed of graciously. The problem is most Officers rarely come across nudity and although the advice is out there they don't recall it. It gets lost in the huge amount of other stuff they have to be aware off. Our British Naturism cards have a link to the advice that may be shown to officers for them to confirm the advice. There have been no prosecutions in England and Wales over recent years for simple nudity as far a BN knows.

Davie   

[Safebare]

Thank you JBee for replying, as your experience matches my own. Being an ex-emergency responder and having decals identifying such, has changed the tone of more than one LEO I have encountered. Still, I have received citations, 4 on last count. Paid obnoxious fines, performed community service and taken an anger management course as a result. In those situations I blame the county attorneys more than the officers. The officers were (mostly) following instructions given at the time. The judge in the first encounter found the whole situation funny. I tend to think that was for the officer giving me a citation and not the fact that I had opted to take it to court.

Officers we have encountered during WNBR have almost always either greeted us cheerfully or simply ignored us. The couple of instances where the interaction turned assertive involved arrogance or confrontational behavior on the part of the WNBR participant. Respect goes a long way in both directions.

~Safebare

[jbeegoode]

Safebare: "Respect goes a long way in both directions."

I believe that most people react in what at least looks like a respectful manner when detained. That is often fear driven. Personally, that is my tactic when dealing with an unknown human reaction and intention, just being careful, feeling the situation out.

I haven't always gotten that respect, consideration, or civility. Some just like to bully, generally because they are scared and have been trained to take control. Those are the ones that I am most concerned with, even when my nudity is legal. They look the same in "uniform" but they aren't. Except the swaggering, strut jack boot, black shiny stuff all over, impeccably uniformed, blonde perfect buzzed hair, that became famous enough to be called as the Oro Valley "Hitler Youth," (imagine a surly teen) during Police chief Wolf's reign. Her Volf was another A-hole and another story.

During the Tortolita wars, Being a town official and activist, I was targeted, stopped regularly for erroneous reasons Like taillights that actually worked. The weirdest was having an Oro Valley cop spin around in the street, and follow me, on my tail. Funny, he didn't pull me over, because for the first time out of a few, my taillight wasn't actually working. This incident ended as I crossed across the disputed town limits, where he placed his car across the road diagonally, staring a very threatening look. Laws that are wrong, are enforced with intimidation. Maybe that form of relationship gets to be an habitual motice operandi (sorry no spell check on that one. ).

Perhaps at face value, automatically, a nude person is viewed as an in your face confrontation with disrespect in the robotic eyes of certain mixed up people and generates a cop's unjustified reaction. Still, there is a place for being civil and respectful that police need to and can emanate, as in just being professional.

What is odd is when I see a cop or two acting in a professional demeanor and verbal tact, but while they are overly, or brutally bullying and manhandling someone who is not resisting.

Protect and serve. Burn the black military rigging.

So, Bob, "Not their job (SCOTUS)" Does that mean there was some supreme court ruling that I haven't heard? Please elaborate.
Jbee

[jbeegoode]

Safebare: "The officers were (mostly) following instructions given at the time. The judge in the first encounter found the whole situation funny. I tend to think that was for the officer giving me a citation and not the fact that I had opted to take it to court."

Some cops like a day in court, as a break. Some hate the tediousness. Most cases are settled out of court. If they know that they are going to be dragged into court, a cop may deem the hassle not worth it and reconsider. The outcome does reflect upon them.

Sometimes a citation is issued just to f mess with someone. There is no intention of going to court at all by the cop. When they don't show up, charges are thrown out. Either way, there is a great hassle and anxiety placed on the victim of the charge and sometimes expense. That is the punishment. The cop is judge, jury and executioner right then and there. They can make stuff up.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Often the hassle and expense of getting arrested or "cited" for some non-crime is a serious punishment intended to control the people by fear and violence.   Even if it gets tossed out by a judge following the law, the accused has already been punished to a great extent. 
Police are not there to enforce the law.  Police are there to control the people by fear and violence.  It's who they are.  It's what they do.