Cleanliness is next to free range-ness

[jbeegoode]

Good point Nuduke. To me, that is all the more reason to set up guidelines and policy at a local level. It feels kinda scarey.
Jbee

[nuduke]

Quite so!
J

[Bob Knows]

The Romans also had public baths, in cities affluent enough. There was little worry about gender mixing in a bath.
Much has been lost to history and memory.
Duane

Indeed much has been lost.  Roman facilities were called "baths" but in daily life they were public toilets as much or more than baths, and were a necessary convenience in cities.  Toilet facilities were often arranged as semi-circle benches with waste openings every few feet.  Running water underneath carried off waste and clean running watter allowed use of wet sponges on sticks for washing.  Little or no concern was made for mixing of men and  women, nor for privacy during body functions.  Rich and poor would sit and discuss politics, business, or the weather while doing their bodily business.    The rest of the Roman baths were places of pleasures and few cared when someone was being sexual in public.  It just wasn't an issue. 

In today's culture dominated by anti-body asceticism any suggestion of sexuality is scorned by nudists who usually demand that bodies are acceptable only if they aren't doing any body functions.  In part that's driven by a surrounding culture that is very intolerant of normal human sexuality and hides all human waste elimination as "obscene" or "indecent."  Part of it is driven by the surrounding culture, but many nudists are part of that culture too. 

The more I learn about Imperial Roman culture the more I am convinced that they had it together pretty much.  We have lost so much.

[jbeegoode]

I remember touring Pompeii. The streets were deep waste dumps. There were places to step over it and cross that had slots for carts. It was not all so perfect for a nose. There was a prostitute section, the only crooked road in the whole town, slaves. Not my ideal, but yep, we have lost a great deal, give time time, it's natural and so should come back to us. This anti-...body/sex/humanity BS hasn't been around that long.

Last year at the Rainbow Gathering the "shitters" had a cloth structure around them. People would wait politely. As things got more comfortable and those units filled up requiring more trenches, things changed amongst the tribe. Privacy disappeared. It took me getting used to. For me, roaming around completely nude was comfortable, but when I was joined by a young lady squatting and smiling at a trench looking for conversation while we defecated...well, that was new. I suppose that I would have adapted with a couple of more days, but we left.

I found our newbie naturist with the door open sitting on the toilet of the mobile home out at Ragged Top. I backed off, but she invited me in, assuring me that, "Its okay, We all have one and we all do it." Not a general custom amongst naturist or nudist. In close quarters...? I didn't know to draw a line or flow with hers.
Jbee

[reubenT]

our minds are so heavily affected by the cultural customs and thought patterns,  when we do manage to make a break from it,  we often only go halfway.     But it's a good start. 

[eyesup]

A strange situation Jbee. Probably one I would also have found awkward.

As Reuben observed, it's a cultural custom that is seldom breached. Actually there would be nothing wrong with it, it just isn't done because of tradition. It's odd, not only among same sexes, but across the gender divide would be doubly strange.

Duane

[nuduke]

I bet our western cultural customs and habits arose as a combination of medieval religious prohibitions and then Victorian prurience.  Must look that up sometime.  Not that I'm particularly keen on having a dump alongside Jbee over a hole but the point I'm making is that our exclusively private toilet habits were invented in relatively recent times in the West and go along with the prohibitions and prejudices around nakedness.  Certainly our universal western habit of sitting whilst defecating is a recent invention and one that has deleterious effects.  I can tell you (a little disclosure here) that the more natural squatting posture for the voiding of bodily waste can have a tremendously beneficial effect on those suffering from haemorrhoids. 

I don't suffer from them (now!)

John

[JOhnGw]

Too much useful information.

I agree with you about the French "hole in floor" toilets though.

[Bob Knows]

I have seen advertising for portable foot rests that raise your feet and legs upward to create a "squat" posture while using common western plumbing.   It also allows weight to rest on your backside and doesn't force knees to carry your weight.  I'm thinking of buying one. 

[jbeegoode]

... but the point I'm making is that our exclusively private toilet habits were invented in relatively recent times in the West and go along with the prohibitions and prejudices around nakedness.  Certainly our universal western habit of sitting whilst defecating is a recent invention and one that has deleterious effects.  I can tell you (a little disclosure here) that the more natural squatting posture for the voiding of bodily waste can have a tremendously beneficial effect on those suffering from haemorrhoids. 

I don't suffer from them (now!)

John

AH... NUDUKE! I have a very powerful imagination...OMG! TMI, TMI, TMI...

It is a fact that a pair of pants, most clothing will get in the way when squatting in the woods. The more natural way is most effective. No details here, but any one experience or experiment will attest to this. Clothing can be extremely unpractical and free bodies should not be outlawed.

Now, that unorthodox toilet is a practical effective notion, Bob. Not being used to the process as a norm, when in the woods, I have at times found portions of my legs getting worn and weak while maintaining that pose. Getting back up also has been a long, sometimes precarious, climb to full stature. This is because of a lack of adequate practice. It is not just custom that third world peoples squat, instead of using chairs. It is great for the back and practical. It is yoga. We are addicted to "civilized" chairs and stools. It would eliminate the need to carry a sittin' towel and make us more healthy in the long run, if we did squat.
Jbee

[nudewalker]

... but the point I'm making is that our exclusively private toilet habits were invented in relatively recent times in the West and go along with the prohibitions and prejudices around nakedness.  Certainly our universal western habit of sitting whilst defecating is a recent invention and one that has deleterious effects.  I can tell you (a little disclosure here) that the more natural squatting posture for the voiding of bodily waste can have a tremendously beneficial effect on those suffering from haemorrhoids. 

I don't suffer from them (now!)

John

AH... NUDUKE! I have a very powerful imagination...OMG! TMI, TMI, TMI...

It is a fact that a pair of pants, most clothing will get in the way when squatting in the woods. The more natural way is most effective. No details here, but any one experience or experiment will attest to this. Clothing can be extremely unpractical and free bodies should not be outlawed.

Now, that unorthodox toilet is a practical effective notion, Bob. Not being used to the process as a norm, when in the woods, I have at times found portions of my legs getting worn and weak while maintaining that pose. Getting back up also has been a long, sometimes precarious, climb to full stature. This is because of a lack of adequate practice. It is not just custom that third world peoples squat, instead of using chairs. It is great for the back and practical. It is yoga. We are addicted to "civilized" chairs and stools. It would eliminate the need to carry a sittin' towel and make us more healthy in the long run, if we did squat.
Jbee

And then there are those stories from deer camp! The tradition here is that a group of guys will head to the woods for an extended period of time to hunt. Besides the copious amounts of beer that is drunk (which become stories in themselves) some poor soul will always have the unfortunate accident of not clearing his one piece coverall when doing his business in the woods. Then to add to the story; dressed in layers to protect from the cold they usually put the coveralls on again not realizing what's sitting on them. I remember one guy saying on return to camp "I stepped in it somewhere but can't find it on my boots!".

[eyesup]

This conversation is spinning around the edge of the drain!
Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

I have learned the hard way that if you aren't already undressed, it is best to be so when attempting this action. There are too many ways to end up with a problem. Stripping off from the waist down is the 2nd best solution.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

Just a thought, that DF and I have been bathing with other people nearly weekly for several years. The sweat/sauna is bathing. When we get in a swimming pool, we are bathing. When we skinnydip in a pond or creek, or a Redington Pass, we are bathing publicly with others.

These aren't so weird, so why should these guys be different? Someone can see them, which are people who wouldn't want to be seen nude, or bathe with others nude. Bathing with others has been acceptable forever. Why isn't it okay with just a few more others around? Jus' don't make sense....
Jbee

[Bob Knows]

These aren't so weird, so why should these guys be different? Someone can see them, which are people who wouldn't want to be seen nude, or bathe with others nude. Bathing with others has been acceptable forever. Why isn't it okay with just a few more others around? Jus' don't make sense....
Jbee 

You are right.  Clothes don't make sense most of the time.   Body shame is a form of public psychosis. 

I have learned the hard way that if you aren't already undressed, it is best to be so when attempting this action. There are too many ways to end up with a problem. Stripping off from the waist down is the 2nd best solution.
Duane

Over the past few years I find myself stripping my pants off entirely, and often my shirt as well, when taking a dump.  If I happen to be at a public facility with stalls, my pants get hung on a hook or wherever they can be placed.   Since I started living barefoot it has become a lot easier to remove pants entirely.  No bulky shoes to remove first. 

Naked is far better for body functions as well as for everything else. 

Bob

[nuduke]

Yeah!  Nowadays I can't abide all that bunching your trousers and shorts round your ankles, I just take 'em off.  As Bob alluded to below I use a squat position aid at home - it's goes by the revolting name of a squatty potty and I tell you it is worth its weight in fertiliser!  When I discovered the benefits of squatting many years ago, I used to squat perched on the seat.  You need to take your trousers off for that. The effect was brilliant though - no more piles and I never looked back...er..so to speak.
When I discovered the - sorry -squatty potty, I was amazed!  The thing puts you in a slightly different (and more efficacious) position than squatting on the seat and the improvement to swift, clean and comfortable evacuation was well worth the ridiculous price of £20 or so for what is essentially a simple plastic moulding.  When I first started to use it my boluses emerged like the Flying Scotsman in full steam from the Welwyn Tunnel, but not green! 
I recommend it. 
John