Should you notify the police?

[anthonygordon]

Hi All. First post!

I was reading British Naturism's website, and apparently some people contact the police before they going hiking in the nude. Here's the text:

Some people find that seeking permission from the local police or land managers can be reassuring. The idea is to reduce the (already small) risk of any complaints being progressed into prosecutions.  This appears to have been successful in Scotland.  But it may be that asking the question raises the risk of getting a negative answer, which would leave you worse off than before!

Just wondering what other people's opinion on this is?  Seems to me that UK law is pretty clear on the intention-to-offend front, so not sure exactly how the police can turn around and say "don't do this" if you politely tell them you're a card-carrying BN member, intend to walk in the buff, and will of course cover up when you encounter textiled walkers (perhaps particularly if you reference the crown prosecution service's info page on the subject).  But I'm not a police officer. (and I guess a land manager saying no is a completely different story).

My only concern is that by notifying the police it makes something completely private (my membership of BN) slightly more public...?

Anyone else got any thoughts about how good an idea this is? I'm not representing a group of people walking in the buff.  It'll just be me...

[eyesup]

Welcome, Anthony!

There is at least one retired officer, of the UK variety, that visits here, maybe you’ll get a good answer the next time they log on.

Otherwise, glad to hear from a new voice. There are posts from all over the world here, but on average the majority are in the UK and the US. There is a Forum called ‘Introductions’ where you can tell us as much or as little as you want about yourself.

Join in!

Duane

[ric]

i never ask permission for something im allowed to do, 
as far as the police are concerned they should know the law and be able to reassure the complainer, if they want to waste their time trying to catch an elusive alledgedly  nude rambler then good luck to them.

i use public footpaths or other rights of way or woodland that has public access so see no point in trying to contact land owners or managers... the chances of actually running into a person of authority in the national trust or whatever is pretty negligable.

on a slightly different tack ive been doing some grass cutting and general maintenance at a green burial ground for over ten years , its in the middle of nowhere and seldom anyone about, i often work naked , occasionally ive encountered mourners visiting the graves, even once had a conversation with one whilst sat naked on the rideon mower,  im sure the chairwoman of the  commitee that run the place would have mentioned someone complaining to them., i sometimes wonder if i should tell her before she finds out.

[jbeegoode]

The Southern Arizona Naturist Society (SANS) used to make arrangements with the Forest Service each month to put up signage and let them know for group camping activities. Not wanting to get a group in trouble and keep then assured, this made our activities legal and it showed passersby that we nakeds were out and about and okay. We developed a good relationship with them. There would be 8 to 20 of us.

It is a pain for a short hike and just a couple of folks. The Forest Service doesn't care unless someone is naked at a more crowded, or public spot, or a complaint pops up. I generally just practice the craft of stealth.
Jbee

[Peter S]

Hi Anthony, I know where you're coming from and can see the point of the BN advice. But that then always assumes we feel we're doing something wrong. Simply put, as Ric has, why seek permission to do something legal? As even BN acknowledges, where do you and the law stand if the police say no?

I think if one feels the need to make the police aware to keep them off one's back, the answer is to tell them there'll be an innocent naked rambler in such-and-general area on a date, adding a legal reference for them to check out, rather than asking them.

Peter

[JOhnGw]

I think the philospohy behind the advice is much as Peter has expressed it.

BN has done a lot of work with the Crown Prosecution Service and the police to get the law on the subject properly recognised but the central official advice does not always permeate down to the front line.
The process of informing the local police is mainly a mechanism to avoid the sort of arrest situations which have happened in the past where innocent nudists have been arrested, charged and then had all charges dropped or thrown out of court after wasting everybody's time and a great deal of money.

[Davie]

I see no justification for asking permission to do something you are legally allowed to do. If the Officer said no that puts you in a difficult situation. I have no issues with saying you are going to be walking naked so they are aware.

 I think too that you have to have some sense about where you walk naked,  I wouldn't walk nude  in my local park. I recall from days in the Police there were frequent reports of flashers there. I have no reason to believe that's changed and I've heard rumours of dogging and other sexual activities taking place. An area to avoid walking naked especially when there are so many alternatives.

Davie 

[Peter S]

Sensibly put as always, Davie. You don't say where you are Anthony, but I've found plenty of scope in the Cotswolds for a naked walk - not sure the police would know where to find me if I did tell them! Town living has more immediate constraints for free ranging, but if you can access some of tryside easily then you should have no problems.

Peter

[eyesup]

. . . to get the law on the subject properly recognised but the central official advice does not always permeate down to the front line.

I understand that the police in major cities have bigger fish to fry, and that something like the legality of walking around naked doesn’t seem important. That it doesn’t rise very high on the radar. I get that.

But with legal systems creaking under the load of significant felonies of all types, as John pointed out, I would think that they would be willing to forego pursuing an arrest especially when no infraction has occurred. Plus there is the added benefit of not having to do the paperwork only to have it tossed.

Maybe it’s a difference between a big city or small town officer.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

They do the paper work, the defendant will win in court, after being told that they may not by an attorney. So they prep to great expense and the cop doesn't even show up. The cop has punished the defendant with an extreme fine and time, worry and hassle.
Cop is judge jury and executioner, making up his own law instead of the properly elected.
Jbee

[anthonygordon]

I think too that you have to have some sense about where you walk naked,  I wouldn't walk nude  in my local park.

Certainly not down the street to tescos.    Totally agree with your point about not asking for permission for something you're legally allowed to do. Perhaps there's not a great need to notify the police either as long as I maintain a common sense approach (cover up when seeing someone coming at a distance -- those who I encounter coming around a blind corner in forested areas... well too bad. It's not like they're going to go blind...)

[anthonygordon]

The process of informing the local police is mainly a mechanism to avoid the sort of arrest situations which have happened in the past where innocent nudists have been arrested, charged and then had all charges dropped or thrown out of court after wasting everybody's time and a great deal of money.

As a matter of interest, has anyone actually done this recently?  Informed the police before going on a hike? (specifically in the UK). If so, what was the reaction?

[Davie]

I know the Police in Dunoon have been informed when BN's Gathering took place. No problens but there had been quite a bit of getting tk know each other befire hand

Davie 

[Peter S]

Of course Scotland has different rules and different history in this arena (the Steve Gough story), and BN's efforts on that occasion were sensible and necessary. On the whole it seems a better bet south of the border.

Peter

[jbeegoode]

Like any good political gains best achieved, it is better to approach these authority entities as an organized group. They may ask who you represent, or are associated with. When two or three show up to a meeting representing at least in their theory even more, you get to the top quicker and a more respectful relationship can be achieved. They like it when you do all of the work for them. They like it when you make them look good. They like to hear that you are in attentive concern to their position. After they have dealt with a group a few times, the nudity is a more usual thing and a single person as an event is not so unusual, nor any big thing.

That is a hassle just to take a naked hike, but it would change things for the future for more than just yourself.

I have thought to contact the police to get a training, so that the law is clearly defined, they are not reading things into the law, or making assumptions, when they encounter some situation with nude people. Here to break the law you have to expose genitals, or nipple area. A "reasonable person" might be "alarmed", a complaint needs to be made by the offended, which may require them to be witness in court.  Without those understandings, a cop might haul off someone in their own yard oblivious to others as a sex offender and it has to be hashed out in court, or thrown out, or in the least take everyone time, money and energies.

In your country, isn't it also necessary that police have a clear idea of the law and departments have established policy to consistently guide officers in the field? I would assume that something similar is the cause of your concerns, that you would consider speaking to the police first. You are probably in a situation that is new ground, if you contact authorities, so if there is someone with experience, they would be unique in their experience and your experience may be different.

Jus' sayin'
Jbee