Author Topic: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014  (Read 9469 times)

jbeegoode

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Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« on: February 08, 2017, 08:00:36 AM »
A Trip Report. It is the last tim0e we have been up there. During this trip, we got to Chebo Falls and they were running full.

Here's the link.

https://thefreerangenaturist.org/2017/02/08/chebo-falls-the-reunion-2014/

Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 09:34:47 PM »
Sounds like the encounter was ok. Honesty is good.

Skinny dipping implies nudity only for swimming. Swimming while nude implies something else. The fact they seemed concerned with load and noisy people may have meant they preferred the solitude as you did. A quiet day in nature is better with no clothes.

A great hike overall, except for the cattle. Reminded me of the deposits we saw in Grapevine Canyon.

Duane

nudewalker

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2017, 05:16:06 PM »
I like that Duane; solitude is good but better without clothes. And in my opinion being nude implies that not only did you swim but also did some sunbathing; unless as many do took it as an implied sexual experience. Either way I agree on the honesty besides the seeds of an idea may have been planted.

As for the cattle, we have been swamped with stories here in the East how people in the state governments in the West are asking the Federal government to roll back orders that set aside land by proclamation for future generations. Bottom line being the cattlemen and mining interests are looking for more land to exploit; most with the "energy independence" tag line. Same here with the fracking for natural gas and pipelines to the coast, so the gas can be sold overseas.

That's enough soapbox for now, besides I'm preaching to the choir mostly. It is just getting me excited for spring, after all pitchers and catchers report soon, and it will be time to gt back out there again! Keep those inspiring posts coming DF and Jbee.
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

jbeegoode

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2017, 06:24:01 PM »
Yea, I get to be a tad more political soapbox on my own site! ;D

I see the destruction nearly every-time I go hiking. It is corporate run Cattlemen's Association stuff. We get little lobbying here. I was surprised that west Virginia would. It isn't the small ranchers that are paying for these propaganda campaigns across the country. People are in sympathy with a family business that has been around for generations, but most of it is just big irresponsible greed. The same corporate greed that squeezes the local family ranchers at the huge feed lots, when it is time to sell their labors. Everyone would be better off if it was a grow local situation AND we would have incredible natural resources for generations AND the extreme pollution problems from those mega-feed lots would go away.

All of the public land ranching in the west combined produces only 7% of the nations meat. If meat eaters ate only just one less burger a week, we wouldn't need it. To me all of the destruction to free ranging resources is not worth it. Do you value a dollar, or a real ecosystem with incredible diversity, abundance and hunting? It is just over production exploitation for export to China and Japan. There are a lot of local ranchers that are squeezed and exploit, concerned about government restrictions, but it is actually the system that has been set up by corporate entities that produce the economic situation.

They do the same thing to third world countries. We are concerned about rain-forests, but ignore our own backyard. The naturist experience is like night and day, from where these big lumbering steers wholesale destroy and where nature is protected.

There can be room for everybody.
Jbee

There were several kids who lived at a feed lot that I used to try to teach. They had severe brain damage. Great kids, loving parents who worked hard.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 06:26:02 PM by jbeegoode »
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eyesup

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2017, 08:42:36 PM »
The biggest problem with having lands set aside as public is that the public comes in and uses it. Sometimes ignorant people venture out and do what they do. We have to just deal with it.

My wife and I see it all the time. We will be in a remote, so we think, spot and see there in the middle of everything, ATV tracks. Verrry annoying! You can't make designer rules and laws that benefit a narrow spectrum of citizens.

The constitutions forbids that.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 06:10:17 PM »
The biggest problem with having lands set aside as public is that the public comes in and uses it. Sometimes ignorant people venture out and do what they do. We have to just deal with it.

My wife and I see it all the time. We will be in a remote, so we think, spot and see there in the middle of everything, ATV tracks. Verrry annoying! You can't make designer rules and laws that benefit a narrow spectrum of citizens.

The constitutions forbids that.

Duane

I don’t know how I like the concept of set aside for specific groups. The Forest Service has to tend to several vested groups and preservation concerns when administering land use. It ends in compromise. There is often one group trying to get more. They just don’t like to be told what to do on public land, or they have financial gains, or ascetic environmental, or preservation concerns. Some contend that the government has no right to have public lands in the first place. There is required public comment. But when, after the thing is signed, someone ignores it…

I like the old concept of a commons. It is like a public park in the city, but it needs to be fairly administered. YA just can’t be running through the flower bed, trampling the flowers, or picking them wholesale. They are there for everybody. National Forests need to be managed like that, too. There, the scope is much larger and different interests than a public park enter into the picture, of course. The solutions are very complex. When a rancher treats public land as if he owns it, selfishly destroying it and others rights to use it, ESPECIALLY NAKED ME :D, I don’t like it.

Fortunately, for now, the Forest Service attempts to consider and balance all sides that put in their input, instead of being pushed around by big corporate political machines trying to buy and sell what is supposed to belong to all of us.

So, what part of the Constitution are you referring to, Eyesup? We are attempting to get official designation of a clothing optional area on public lands, as a beachhead and demonstration model for clothing optional living and body acceptance. The more people see it and see it accepted, the sooner this idiotic more will cease to exist. Perhaps you know something that could be a hindrance to our goals?
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 08:08:40 PM »
I will state up front that I am aware that Karla & Stuart don't want political proselytizing here, so I will merely state some historical facts.

Quote from: me
You can't make designer rules and laws that benefit a narrow spectrum of citizens.
The constitutions forbids that.
I was saying that you cannot pass laws beneficial to one person or group to the detriment of another.

Quote from: Jbee
So, what part of the Constitution are you referring to, Eyesup?

Article 4 Section 1 Clause 1, declares that,
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.

Then A4 S2 C1, makes a broad statement regarding the rights of citizens in each state and in the several states.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

Then the 14th ammendment, sometimes referred to as the "Equal Protection Clause", addresses this in more detail following the Civil War. The 14th leads to a disturbing ruling in 1886. It is also what a majority of Civil Rights Movement actions and legislation is based on.

A recent ruling by the Supreme Court, in July of 2012, is somewhat troubling where it decided that the 1886 decision that, "a corporation has the same rights as a person" does not need to be addressed.

For over a century, corporations are seen as people, "under the law". So there exists in the constitution a blatant contradiction. If a company is a person and stockholders of the company are also people, then doesn't that violate the 13th amendment?

It's a very curious and interesting conundrum.  ???

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 06:55:27 PM »
Thanks Eyesup. I suspected that. I was plaintiff of an assertion of equal voting rights that went clear to the doorstep of the Supreme Court. Then the lawyers told us that he new Bush political climate would be working against us with the politicians in robes. I found that amendment very dear, but tread on deliberately by the establishment-government on the behest of powerful out of state corporate interests.

The last time that I incorporated a business, it was so that I couldn't be sued personally, for what was done by the business. This contradicts the corporate person thing. The way that they have corporations laid out, they are persons with extra privileges, irresponsible, and too often extremely rich and influential. That us certainly not equal under the law and it is just brushing the tip of the issue.

I think that the forest service has to act within the constitutional framework or suffer costly lawsuits, but I'm not certain at this time. Perhaps, I'll get to ask that question when I meet with the local autorit, in a couple of weeks.
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 07:04:08 PM by jbeegoode »
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Greenbare Woods

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 04:31:55 PM »

I think that the forest service has to act within the constitutional framework or suffer costly lawsuits, 
Jbee 

The whole Forest Service and the lands they administer is a flagrant violation of the US Constitution, Article I, Section 8, and the Maryland Compromise upon which it was based.   

But that's a whole 'nother argument. 

Bob
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 04:55:50 PM by Bob Knows »
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Greenbare Woods

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 04:53:06 PM »

For over a century, corporations are seen as people, "under the law". So there exists in the constitution a blatant contradiction. If a company is a person and stockholders of the company are also people, then doesn't that violate the 13th amendment?

It's a very curious and interesting conundrum.  ???
Duane

Perhaps you meant to say "14th Amendment." 

No it does not.  A corporation is a legal construct to allow a group of people to pool their money for the purpose of accomplishing large scale tasks too great for any single person.  The archetype corporation was Crédit Mobilier created to raise a huge amount of money to construct the American trans-continental railroad.   The very nature of corporations necessarily allows them to act as "persons" in contracts, ownership, and have other rights as if the thousands of individual owners were doing the same as individuals.  It does not make corporations into citizens or allow them to hold public office. 

Really large corporations also end up being easy pickings for corruption of all kinds.   Crédit Mobilier was one of the most corrupt leaders in that too.

This discussion is off topic of being naked, except that big corporations which make huge profits producing and marketing clothing are always against allowing people to be naked. 

Bob
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
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eyesup

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 08:12:32 PM »
Quote from: Bob
Perhaps you meant to say "14th Amendment"?
No, I meant the 13th. The one forbidding ownership of persons. I clearly made a lame attempt at being clever. If you are an owner, partial or otherwise, of a corporation and a corporation is a person, do you, in theory, violate the 13th? etc., etc., etc.

When one of my jokes fails and I have to clarify, they are seldom funny. :(

And Crédit Mobilier would not have succeeded at all without the financial and military backing of the federal government every time they hit a bump in (rail)road.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 08:25:39 PM »
Bob mentioned: "This discussion is off topic of being naked, except that big corporations which make huge profits producing and marketing clothing are always against allowing people to be naked."
As Eyesup is eluding to in concern of ownership.
I'd like to elaborate on this topic of incorporation, add and conjecture our collective futures as these may influence the spread of naturism. Yup, absolutely nothing to do with Chebo Falls.

There is a corporate culture stemming from the simply focused structural mandate to create profit. This focus tends to make aspects of humanity a periphery issue to the main purpose of profit. Uniformity, treating human beings as merely parts in the machine, and dismissing them as needed, all contribute to the clothing issues faced within the broader culture.

I remember those corporate uniforms of the sixties, black, grey, or blue suits with a small hat and a brief case. Associated with this, was the rest of a limited and enforced social behavior. Little boxes filled with ticky-tacky were examples of uniformity and lack of tolerance that existed socially. It is a dark side of unbridled capitalism influencing and coupled with existing culture. Those were bad days for the nudists. Visiting Eden in California, we noticed the old fears that they experienced and were ingrained into the older nudist populations. They were not just boxed in by the intolerant world, but they were fortified, or hiding behind walls and fearful.

In the late sixties, these most obvious symptoms of excess were questioned and rejected. More free ranging naturism, and associated attitudes of acceptance and tolerance were produced in sociological and cultural context in much of the world, including body freedom activities.

I see the increasing corporate control of just a few entities as very threatening. These have been creating culture, consumerism and increasing the old corporate profit driven abuses to humanity. Currently, we are in sex sells and naked is sex, rather than naked is humanity. The corporate structure in effect isn't controlled by the masses of investors, but it has been consistently controlled by a few with larger portions of stock at the top. These few, now popularly referred to as "the 1%" or "the .1%" sit on the controlling boards of numerous corporate entities and consequently control all large corporations for profit. This has been going on since before I was born, when Rockefellers were so dominate and then the Gilded Age and robber barons. It is not just numbers. Who would not want the connections and alliance with someone like a Rockefeller on their controlling board of directors? How far will this go?

The mining towns, sung about by "Tennessee Ernie Ford, were where everything is essentially owned, everything is controlled by the company. There is conformity and work and certainly no freedom to rattle the cart by being naked. This extreme would be what I would suppose would be the tendency of our ever greater controlling corporate institutions. In numerous ways, life in America is tending to head towards that direction of a slavery, or contract into an unnaturally structured world. Nudity must not effect profit. Values and behavior can be and will be controlled by the few with the purse strings, when those with the purse strings can.

Two examples are corporate control and its fusion with the government that has affected the mental health field to a negative. Profit is also driving the effectiveness and access of medical care. What we listen to, and what news we are given to manipulate our thinking have been increasingly controlled by a few. I see these trends as a potential threat to nude lifestyles. In history, those that control, have gotten around to controlling morality and ethics for profit and for ego. Our revolutions have been results from this. 

Fortunately, the clothing profit motive is constantly exposing more and more skin and shape in fashion. More often it isn't the cost of the fabric that drives price, but a better profit can be made using less cloth. This year women are wearing their revealing tights on the outside and swimming gear has been doing this trend for years. It used to be that profit could be produced so that skirt length fashion could go back and forth, year to year, but now it is a completely new ball game. After a while, things will get so ridiculous that clothing may be seen as the joke that it is. What you wear shows all body shape, what difference does it make from beach to street, and then...well...topfree, etc. You all know about that.

I might add that comfort and convenience is also a contributing factor to the wide spread acceptance of these tight clothes. They are very stretchy and don't require laying down and a hernia to pull them on. Two of the pros of going about naked.

The thing is that fashion is profitable and out of control of the few. It has this tendency and you can see how there is a potential for it to swing completely out of control. It could kill its own influence by its own greed. There is a history of swings that have resulted in anti-fashion. One latest, is those fashions to make clothing look old and worn. The opposite of wealth and walking billboards with labels. Perhaps reflective of, or caused by, frustration from control. Am I effectively making the correlation of two tendencies of out of control corporate structuring? One wants more control, getting stronger and one weakens the  unbridled control. Both drive by greed.

If media consolidation and the demise of internet neutrality, which are all results of unbridled corporate structures and oligarchy, don't turn us all into fearful robots, unfree, there is hope that other corporate shortcomings will produce wide spread nudism. Nudism tends to produce naturism. It just generally follows that naked is more in touch with grass and trees and then wilds become more conscious.

Bare breasts were associated with glamor in Monaco in the sixties and look what has happened in Europe and is still is evolving. Nudity can be a release valve to over control. Nudity can be the influence, with which we gauge our sense of freedom. Nudity can be the reminder that life is not only about profit and gaining wealth, but life is of this earth, egalitarian, and in any moment to merely be experienced. We understand this about nudity in the current context, but what if it were to become a cultural ideology and practice on a grander scale? If clothing fashion ran amuck and killed itself? I head to the hills and get naked and forget all about making a buck. What if naked was a social norm to provide frequent reminders of the extent of control? Would we have a healthier more civil, less greedy planet?

Gotta digress and go find a buck.
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 08:44:54 PM by jbeegoode »
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eyesup

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 06:36:38 PM »
Jbee, I agree and disagree!  ;D

Started a reply, but it is still ongoing and headed towards a post of possibly political flavor but most definitely a philosophical one.

Maybe I'll post it later or in deference to Stuart, Karla and others I will PM it to you.

Duane

jbeegoode

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 08:19:08 PM »
Yea, I am attempting to stay out of the politics by discussing general economic principles, values and historic examples. The governmental issues were only lightly touched as there is the meld of corporate and governmental entities for context. These influences are a significant influence on us and free range naturism in general. What I wrote is much to do with the philosophy of lifestyle. That is interlinked with other issues of freedoms in our complex world and personal attitudes and choices. Sometimes it is difficult to stay apolitical.

It is best to stay away from popular political flashpoints. It is best to stay away from religion. There are a variety of us here and passion is volatile. We agreed on that by consensus on TSNS website, long before we washed up here on Carla and Stuarts island.

So, perhaps putting onto a document and sleeping on it might make your response more comfortable. A day or two doesn't matter, unless topic drift buries it. All of those founding father philosophers, inventors and political folk wrote letters that took sometimes months to deliver, but a thoughtful conversation was maintained and learning happened.
Jbee
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 08:24:02 PM by jbeegoode »
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jbeegoode

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Re: Chebo Falls the Reunion 2014
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 05:58:54 PM »
In all fairness to destructive ranchers: Eyesup, do you remember last year when we stopped for lunch. The campsite was unusable. There were paper products like toilet paper spread all over it. The ground was black from spread ashes. We had to kitchen off of the tailgate and sat up on the ridge in grass and warmed by the sun. People trampled the land and quads ripped up the backroads making erosion. The excessively loud noise from quads and motorbikes was obnoxious to us and probably freak out the wildlife. What do we call this, "one in every crowd?" There are more than one. The forest Service had to divy up the campgrounds creating restrictions. Over population was over running the place and with it an increasing number of ignorant, or inconsiderate problem people.

That place does need a few more back country trails to backpack on. I suppose that problem is because of budget choking from the government. Just one less missile would probably repair all the trails in Arizona and maybe New Mexico. There are two very green  colleges and multitudes of people living there that enjoy the outdoors. Seems that a volunteer organizing would get lots of support to build and maintain trails.

I think that we did find a good couple of places to hike nude. The difficulty and fun lush distractions made it very slow going. We didn't need miles and miles to do what we had in mind. We made no more impact than stepping on a couple of tufts of grass. If more people nude hiked, we would have less destruction....oh well.

Anyway, cattle destruction dwarfs that of the humans.
Jbee
Barefoot all over, all over.