clothing is really bad

[reubenT]

I've been locked out for weeks.   Tried to change my email and the link to confirm the new one kept failing,  click it and it always redirects back to the main sign in page and won't confirm the email.   But I finally got the thought to try a copy and past thing with the address.   Put it in the address bar and go to it that way.   And it worked.   

But anyway.    Lately I've been thinking through my own experience to figure out just what happened in my childhood that made my lust pop up out of nowhere and attach itself to my naked self.   I suffered and fought it for 35 years,  while it kept getting worse.   Finally realized there was no way I could deal with it and just sort of gave up trying.   Started telling God,   "you will have to clean up my mind, I can't do it"  Shortly after starting that prayer the concept of naturism came my way.    It was the last thing I'd ever been likely to do,  I thought naked was always lust inspiring,  and I also had an automatic fear response with the slightest chance of being seen naked.   But the mychainsaregone.org website convinced me what I needed,   and Isaiah 20 convinced me God didn't care if we went naked in public.  So I started intentionally going naked in private work back in the woods,  and it started working,  the lust response started fading.    But now a few years have passed and I've been thinking it through some more,  and I come to realize just what it was that caused my lust to pop up and attach itself to my own nakedness.    I was never naked,   no one around me was either.  I never saw my parents naked.   My mother especially thought all nakedness was sexual and lustful and had quite a degrading way of mentioning it.    She though she was shielding me against lust addictions by shielding me from nudity.   But in reality it had the opposite effect,  it drove me into a lust addiction by default.     And it finally occurs to me;   That's is what's going on all around us now,  all the time.   The children are growing up with no naked people around them.  (skimpy bathing suits don't count)   and it's causing their lusts to grab a hold of nudity to feed off of when they hit puberty,   if nudity were as common as naked hands and faces it would be nothing to the mind and lust could not grab onto it.    So our societies efforts at child protection are actually the very thing that is driving them to lust after same sex,  opposite sex.   and all manner of various of excessive unnatural issues.     So this clothing thing is really big,  even bigger an issue than most of us purveyors of naturism realize.   It's inspiring me to get a bit bolder and talk to some parents of children,  tell them my story of how I got trapped in a lust addiction for so long and what saved me from it. Perhaps save their children from the same difficulties.   I never though I was addicted to porn, because it was not an outward thing.   But I came to realize I really was addicted to porn,  my porn was myself.   And I think it turned inward because I tended to be shy without social connections,  and because naked was a rare thing in my life. 

[John P]

I don't know what to say about lust. Apparently some people think it's bad.

But Reuben, I think you should be very careful about talking to people about their children, especially if you want to mention nudity. And if you plan to mention lust too, then I can see trouble ahead.

[jbeegoode]

Yup, most of society has been and is still raised within a context of nudity, nakedness, equals sex. Voyeurism and exhibitionism are traits that most everyone has some of. Some have more, or much more of those than others. It is considered okay, by professionals, to have some lust and the V and E, just don't get hung up on it.

People's repression of my body, or my liberation of my body in the eyes of those who are sick, can certainly conflict. I have to work things out on my own as to how I feel about all of this. It isn't always so easy to resolve in the world with those others. It ain't easy being free and natural.

I was raised pretty liberally by my parents, but still society and the culture around me, I think, had the greater effect in the process of perverting my sense of myself, ie. sex equals naked.

My upbringing still surfaces from time to time, generally when I've been away from social nudity. I readjust quickly, but it is there, old weird habits perpetuated by the dominate culture, surface.

There does need to be caution when talking such with parents, as John P. mentions. My tact is quoting and referring to science, studies and common logic. Hands down there is no harm from nakedness and actually it is good. The harms of society is our basic nature is being usurped. Results are inhibition, body self image being out of whack, shame, teasing, obsession with clothing, self image and self worth becoming a false sense of identity, shallow relationships with the rest of humanity, less healthy, consumer mentality, repressed sexuality being redirected into porn for sexual outlets. Also, objectification of body and other persons, like stripping, instead of having love in an interpersonal context, for example being in bed with a person instead of an object, or projecting stuff on a partner, instead of acceptance and a more healthy response with heart and feeling and reality. Let's not forget eating disorders being hand in hand with cultural weirdness. These are just off the top of my head. There are just a lot of problems, some very serious, created by this anti nudity thing, that some simple non-sexual social nude interaction abates, or fixes.

So, you're not alone there Rueben. I'd also caution about repression of lust. Lust happens like any fear, anger, emotion and it is how you choose to handle it that makes problems. We are that, we have to be what we are. A prayer of surrender may be the grace needed, as you tried and suggest.
Jbee

Oh yea, didn't mention all of the social games and dishonesty, the lies, and cons that clothing is used for, making people insecure, the world less socially just, top dog underdog greed instead of taking care of the person next to you...on and on...pollution, waste, poverty....

[Greenbare Woods]

You are right, Ruben.  Systematically depriving children of knowledge of their own species is deliberately harmful to the children.  It forever creates a need to see other members of their species, and porn is the only place they can see.  Compulsive mandatory clothing is very wrong and very harmful, especially to children.

[reubenT]

I'm just identifying a definite link in my own young life from the repression of nudity to the rise of a lust addiction,  and then I see the same going on in others.    Naturist cured the issue for me.     I just hate to see more children getting the same deal I did and have to contend with it.  Because many never do find the solution. 

[jbeegoode]

I see all of the same issues that I listed above in degrees, in my personal experiences, family and world populations. I could let all of it sadden me, rally me, or make me bitter. I'd like to see some sensibility in humanity, to stop making such a strong issue out of clothing and of the sight of skin. It is an issue that shouldn't be.

It is one of those proofs of the ilk of looking for intelligent life out in space, when there would appear that it is missing here. Humanity fools itself; it lives, projects and creates illusions. There is a quagmire of grand illusions garnered by ego, fear, ignorance, habit and stupidity.

If it is cold, or uncomfortable, cover up with a shelter, or something portable. Otherwise, fancy is fun, but nobody NEEDS fancy. We NEED to remember that. Fancy is something that we create. It is just a toy, just an illusion.
Jbee

[nuduke]

I realised quite recently that I had been a naturist for a lot longer than I had given myself credit for.  Like Reuben, in my childhood, I sought nudity occasionally but similarly equated it with lust and wrongdoing.  Eventually, in my early teens I started to sleep naked, taking my pyjamas off when everyone else had gone to bed and putting them on again in the morning in order to emerge from my bedroom, go through the morning routine and get dressed!  When I was naked I often felt I was driven by lust but I did it because of the 'natural' feeling which I distinctly remember seeking out but again feeling it was wrong to feel that way.
At university I was freer and discarded pyjamas altogether and occasionally had time naked when I was alone in the house.  So I think its something of the same phenomenon, Reuben.  Perhaps there is a natural innate urge in us to be in our natural, naked state.  If many of us have this urge, few of us it seems manages to break through the constraints of the textile norm.  This may be why more older men are naturists.    We break free from the trammels of society more often.
John

[Safebare]

Where does this urge to build a box come from?  Must we have the 'perfect' label to let everyone know just where our inner selves reside?  It's kind of like the whole gender identification thing.  'Male' and 'Female' are too limiting and 'it' is just rude.
I grew up knowing that there was nothing wrong with the human body, more specifically, mine.  I didn't identify with the whole nudist thing, because that existed only in clubs, you had to join.  Naturist wasn't a thing in my world until Baxandall make it a thing.  As soon as I connected with the TNS, I became a member (80's).  I am not much of a joiner, not then nor now, but I had to get on that bus.
Anyway, I am not one to draw attention to my proclivities.  My natural state is just that, natural.  Do I need a box to put that into?  I think not.  I'd rather just be.

In being, I'm a lot of things.  Do all of those 'things' have distinct labels, probably not.  If you want to refer to me as a nudist, okay.  If you want to refer to me as a man, okay.  Heterosexual, middle class, Irish Catholic, old guy, okay.  Heathen, hippie, freak, granola eater, free thinker, okay.  Surfer, sailor, safety guy, outdoorsman, okay.  Mentor, confidant, friend, i'd be pleased.

Be yourself, be safe & be bare,
~Safebare

[nuduke]

I thoroughly agree with that, Safebare.
Every human condition is a spectrum.  And naturism is no exception.  There are the lifestyle living, constant naturists like Jbee, there are the occasional skinny dippers, those who express their naturism by simply not wearing pyjamas in bed and those that spend part of their time in clubs, on walks or at home.  Or any combination.  Our group is a good example of this pluralism.  We all spend different amounts of time naked in different places and at different times.
We are here because we, on balance, classify ourselves as naturists but there are those I am sure that are naked as much as we are in the same sets of circumstances that have never heard the word naturism!


Amongst the silent majority of members here, I wonder how many are not naturists but simply wish to observe what naturists have to say?  Any full textiles observing the forum today?

John

[BlueTrain]

This is a link to a blog that I follow and sometimes make comments on: https://www.saltwaternewengland.com/2020/01/wisconsin-state-journal-lands-end-sued.html.

You may be on to something.

[jbeegoode]

YUP! 1500 out of 64000 employees wearing the stuff have signed on. One in 42, something like 2.2% are significantly affected by the stuff and out. Others certainly had less severe issues, which can't be quantified.

Lands In undoubtedly is using similar technology in its other products...I refer to my article: https://thefreerangenaturist.org/2019/11/13/whats-in-your-pants/#more-6429

Previously unknown chemical compounds in varying quantities and toxins coming into close personal contact with skin. Skin is a major expeller and gatherer and balance in our bodies. If clothing can trap bacteria and produce a farm, then it can trap other unnatural things. 

Do side effects need to be sewn into the labels? Most people don't notice a problem, or don't want to get involved, or can't prove distress, but it happens.

I'm sitting working in a house with no heater in a cold spell lately (its a real estate thing) and wearing warm clothing, mostly sweat pants and shirts and two layers of warm socks without shoes. My social life has been one Holiday party after the next. I've gone from 90% naked directly into 90% bundled up. I gets stuffy, I have to bathe more often, and change clothing because I can feel a noticeable difference. There is lots of maintenance to wearing clothing! I've thought about it, but experiencing it is powerful. It is mostly unnecessary. Now, someone wants to add crap to what is going on. It just ain't right. When something ain't right its wrong.

Clothing makes an incredible difference.
Jbee

[BlueTrain]

It's a rough life.

[jbeegoode]

Without clothing life is noticeably better, all aspects. It is the comfort and aliveness of the moment that can make whatever else is going on seem trivial, or not so bad. It is not just about one issue, that is stuck bundled up, it is how one feels going into life, because of it. It is about irritation, like a fly that just won't go away, a pest, mosquitoes, heat/cold, a rock in the shoe.

It is the unnecessary being imposed, when I'd rather stick to my own program, or a waste of my time and life. It is about getting used to no clothing and freedom and having it taken. A pleasant environment being intruded on by disruption.

Life is rough, so it is good to have a respite in as many ways as possible, even to the point where life is pretty damn good start taking that away and people don't like it.
Jbee
   

[Greenbare Woods]

I ran across a really good article about Nudity vs. Sexuality.  Worth a read. 


   

Do not tell me nudity bears no relationship to sexuality. The adult human body is an explicitly sexual display — evolved over a million years — designed to attract a mate.
    .........

    Nudists of yesteryear had a very difficult problem. To even exist they had to vehemently assert that their nudity was innocent of sexual thought. It was a tough row to hoe. Many Americans, at least, had never seen a nude body other than their spouse. Religious doctrine shaped their morality and the government gave it the force of law. Nudists had to exist in the cultural fringes and remote areas of the country. They had to appear to be asexual to the point of Puritanism.

    It was a lie then and it is a lie today. (emphasis added)

    https://naturismcommunity.substack.com/p/nudity-and-sexuality-in-the-state

[jbeegoode]

I think that simplistic absolutism has tainted the nature and notion of socially nude behavior. We are not all sexually stimulated, or aggressive the same. We as individuals don’t even act, feel, or respond to another in a consistent way during any day. Sexual stirrings pop up, die down, they change, they are not the same for all others.

Undressed, it Is no different.

When we are in various social settings, we behave differently. Otherwise we would not keep our jobs; we would get into altercations and escalations. Social graces must be learned and humans are brilliant at learning its intricacies. You learn to wait for a best opportunity, before engaging another potential sexual partner; you take a step by step process.

There is also generally less visual stimulus for females that males. This hasn’t been proven to be caused by human nature, or social conditioning at this point. The thing is, there is self-control and there are social graces. It is even abnormal and perhaps a defect to be devoid of these two pieces of our humanity.

People don’t like to be stared out, and sometimes they do. Sometimes one may prefer to choose who and how stares at them. We learn not to stare, at a clothed person, or nude alike. We pick up subtle clues.

The textile culture teases with clothing. The mystery, the curiosity, the lustful stripping away and for some, power and  dominate stripping comes from the games of clothing. This gets carried over into nudist’s settings and across the world what is socially approved varies. After a time in a nudist setting these conditioned learned behaviors tend to dissolve along with other various reactions to the different scene. The repressive construct of the outside world is a powerful influence, something that can even fool the thinking of what is natural human behavior.

The old magazine covers in this article depict what was culturally attractive at that time. Big butts are attractive in Brazil and many places, but personally, it is not my preference. I have had stages attracted to various preferences of body type, smaller blondes, more Playboy features, oriental, and this diversity of preference has changed with who I have bonded with as years pass. I spent years just finding a person with different body features a curiosity to be attractive. I have become more female. I tend to be less interested in visual stimulation than how I feel next to and with someone. Extended time nude contributed to that. When the clothing disappears from the equation the balance seems to be more affectionate than hot shapes, sizes, textures, on and on.
 
Sexual fantasy erupts, but it can be as diverse as each human being on the planet. It is often a product of an unhealthy environment. It is often oriented to clothing imposed scenarios.

This article was written by a man, probably middle age, or older, odds are white. The attitudes and assumptions reflect that person’s learned culture, but not all human beings would see it that way.

The thing is, that we usual healthy human beings have flowing through our experience, hormones, emotions, urges, frustrations, challenges and many other personal human traits. We have the ability to, in many ways, some more healthy than others, to control and adapt these experiences. For example,  we will all experience  anger, that is natural and very human. It is what we do with that anger that counts. Our sexuality can also be dealt with. We may fail to hide anger, but we learn to not clobber someone, we may forgive instead of creating problems. We can own our anger, it doesn’t own us. The same is true for sexuality. If you learn that it is acceptable to behave in a way, you might behave that way, but after the end of ignorance, you do have a choice.

For me and many many others, the stimulus of removing clothing very shortly ends when the clothing is removed. It is easy to be comfortable and not make someone else uncomfortable when nude. It is easier to deal with sexual urges. Much of the social conditioning disappears.
Jbee