Redington Pass Under Seige

[jbeegoode]

Redington Pass, if you recall, has been naturist haven since before I started going there 45 years ago. There has been an ad hoc organization that has been making a suggestion to the Forest Service for a general recreational plan of the entire area. It did not include naturist or any of the people who frequent that particular area of the canyon.
 
The result was relying BS about a Gay pickup site that was put on the internet, speculation and the usual thing about how unwholesome and un-family-like the naturists activity is. A slam by a sham.

I’ve contacted NAC and I’m gathering an organization to submit the reality and get naturist and gay naturists input. We have to counteract the damage.

They even suggested raids, and anti-nude signs!
http://friendsofredingtonpass.org/
Refer to the CAMP Report, there. It is in PDF. I refer to 5.4.A.3 on page 70.

There will come a time for letter writing.

The Redington Pass stories so far at my site are:
http://thefreerangenaturist.org/2016/08/29/redington-pass-the-introduction/
http://thefreerangenaturist.org/2016/11/11/further-upstream…ss-a-trip-report/
Jbee

[ddoger]

This is a shame.  I've enjoyed reading your stories and have shared them with my DW. We come from Canada each year to free hike in the Palm Springs area.  Some years we can't get to Palm Springs and your trip reports have piqued our curiousity of visiting the Tuson area. 

I will support you and the NAC however I can in keeping this a C/O hiking area.

Cheers
Ddoger

[JOhnGw]

Typical of what is happening world wide and to other groups as well as naturists.
All I can do from here is wish you well and offer such support as is possible from across the puddle.

[jbeegoode]

This is a shame.  I've enjoyed reading your stories and have shared them with my DW. We come from Canada each year to free hike in the Palm Springs area.  Some years we can't get to Palm Springs and your trip reports have piqued our curiousity of visiting the Tuson area. 

I will support you and the NAC however I can in keeping this a C/O hiking area.

Cheers
Ddoger

Somewhere down the line we will be promoting a letter writing campaign, and I will reach out here. Tourists and snowbirds are a very big part of the economy in this valley.

Incidentally, very pleased to hear that you are inspired by my website. Come on down.
Jbee
Jbee

[John P]

I'm going to say some stuff that you may not like, JBG, because I'll be someone far away telling you as a local person what to do. But if the NAC tells you something that's consistent with what Bob Morton (the director of the NAC) says at the Naturist Gatherings, they'll say "A local user group is vitally important". You talk about a report from this Friends of Redington group, and where were naturists? Not at the Friends meetings, apparently. If only naturists had been there to insert their own view of clothes-free recreation! Of course, given what the Friends have to say, it could have led to a few fine shouting matches, but as things have gone, the anti-nude people have had it all their own way. I'll put that section here in full.

What we need to establish, at Redington Pass and anywhere, is that "Family friendly" doesn't necessarily mean no nudity. You can bring your kids--why not? State law also doesn't prohibit nudity outright, but says "A person commits indecent exposure if he or she exposes his or her genitals or anus or she exposes the areola or nipple of her breast or breasts and another person is present, and the defendant is reckless about whether the other person, as a reasonable person, would be offended or alarmed by the act." If the other person has passed a sign saying "Naked users may be present" can't we claim that they've forfeited their right to be offended by nudity? I mean as a reasonable person, of course, the way the law says.

Naturists ought to be the first ones demanding law enforcement against lewd behavior, if that's occurring. One item that I've occasionally disagreed with the NAC about is that we need to distance ourselves from gay men using outdoor spaces for sexual encounters; that means we have to acknowledge what they're doing and say that we want it stopped. The NAC has consistently refused to get into any such action, even if it means we lose one venue after another: it's as if they're valiantly ready to fight fires, but they won't say a word about people who play with matches.

5.4.A.3. Addressing clothing optional users’ claim on Blue Line Trail and TV Falls area

Some users have complained about nudity and sexual activity in the Tanque Verde Falls area. Background research revealed websites noting opportunities for nude hiking in Redington Pass. The area also has a history as a hook up place, primary for gay men. User-created signs declare the area as clothing optional. All of this contributes to the public’s impression that “anything goes” in the Pass. The working group felt a primary management concern is that this area is being claimed by one group exclusively for their use through the public exercise of private behaviors many users would prefer not to witness. The working group focused on making Redington Pass accessible for as many users as possible. Allowing a small subset of people to essentially bar others’ enjoyment through certain behaviors goes against the very premise of this entire effort.

Most importantly, Tanque Verde Falls is an increasingly popular area for family-friendly activities associated with natural water features. As demand for non-motorized recreation increases, especially among those without high-clearance vehicles, more hiking access to the creek is warranted. With improved signage, the Blue Line Trail and the area around the dam could be reclaimed to help meet some of this demand by the general public.

The working group does not recommend a formal closure on nudity in the Pass at this time in the hopes that acceptable results can be achieved without significant administrative effort. (Such closure does exist in Sabino Canyon Recreation Area). However, state law prohibiting indecent exposure should be strictly enforced until this behavior is extinguished in this area. If public nudity continues to be concentrated on the Blue Line Trail after 2-5 years, consider closure order.

Recommendations:

1. Improve trail system and signage for all existing and new trails on western slope, thereby increasing access for non-motorized users.
2. Improve parking for hiking and biking in this western part of the Pass.
3. Consider renaming the first three miles of the pass (e.g. Tanque Verde Falls area) to address reputational concerns.
4. Keep the area free of unauthorized, informal signage encouraging nudity.
5. Create sign near Blue Line Trail stating Arizona Revised Statute prohibiting public indecency.
6. Step up enforcement of public decency laws with periodic enforcement blitzes.
7. Monitor conditions and if these measures are not effective within 1 year, consider formal closure for nudity on Redington Pass.

[jbeegoode]

I probably shouldn't publish the written response from Bob Morton. Each point that you have made was addressed by him. The difference is that he mentioned that the head of Gay Naturists International happens to live here in Tucson. There are influences in the nature of subset communities, that make this a small town of over one million.

I am gathering support for organized pressure, education and lobbying of the forest service. We missed the CAMP but we can certainly diminish its influence, because of the grand lack of representation of the actual users of the area, misinformation that they candidly based their assessment, and actual users. I'm waiting for a call back from my friend who I shared the running of the old SANS organization. I've begun seeing if we can use the sweat communities 501c3 as an umbrella organization. There are 412 on that list of nudes. I have emailed the Buffateers, who may be of help, but could provide numbers and lend their name for support, at least. I've asked Bob about how to contact and deal with Mira Vista to get them to notify their membership. The other Naturist organizations and the local NAC rep are being contacted. We need only a handful to write and come across as a prominent organization. We have the usual TNS rap, like the polls on nude rec. Redington Pass is hallowed grounds for many. I learned about the CAMP because I became a member, unfortunately not aware of them soon enough. I'm in the email and phone call stage. I should have a working group within two weeks, writing up its own suggestions and refuting CAMP's representation. SANS used to have a working relationship with the local Forest Service when we would organize nude campouts and hikes, posting signs of warning with their blessing...twenty years ago.

Complicating the issue is the fact that there will soon be a new U.S. Secretary of Agriculture who will set the tone for the Forest Service. When the short list includes the likes of Sid Miller and Sam Brownback, we face a stiff headwind. Brownback is from a state that has no nudity laws, but that nutjob will legislate morality. There is the fundamentalist fascist who doesn't understand the first amendment Vice President to look forward to, if he isn't distracted enough by other issues. Sid Miller was consistently ranked as one of the most conservative lawmakers in Texas based upon his voting record, but is concerned about the classic base conservative issues and would probably just want the Pass Canyon to be dammed up to water excessive cattle grazing (Cattlemen's Association). We don't know, yet, how that plays out.

In 45 years, I have not seen a dominate gay presence, nor ANY sexual activity and gotten only one dirty disapproving look (but his girlfriend loved us and stripped to join us). There is a website about gay pickup venue, which is not real, just hype. People tend to be homophobic in their projections onto two nude men, assuming that they are gay, too. You have to talk to them to be certain. There are gay people there and that's okay, as long as they are naturists.

I found a witness who today, who told me that she went there only once, but with her daughter. Testimony like that, can present family friendly in its more truthful light.

Yup John P, that is the CAMP section to which I was referring. Probably good that you put it out here rather than everyone muddling around trying to find it on their website.

This is gonna fill things in and make me busy.
Jbee

[nudewalker]

I am beginning to have a real fear with this new administration and the cabinet picks. Although unlike many of our western friends we do not have any nude use areas to protect around here. However, after years of abuse our ecosystems have recovered from mining and industry pollutants and I fear a return to much deregulation will set things back.

Now there is also the "Fundamentalist faction" which is waiting for the new administration. Our new VP will make some so called Christians feel empowered to impose their lifestyle and restrictions on the rest of us. I have already heard some comments from some of those people in church and I really thought that they were more forgiving. When talking with our pastor he just shakes his head and shrugs his shoulders; mentions he thinks there is too much influence by social media on our belief system.

When and if I post trip report pictures from streams made yellow or orange from mine runoff or  shorelines with no vegetation from industrial  waste then you'll know that we have gone in reverse.

[jbeegoode]

I share your concerns, but practically, winning an extremely narrow and suspect election and then implementing unpopular policy doesn't mean that people will just resolve to let it happen and be ruled as such. As you say Nudewalker, when" the streams turn yellow."

The histories of the coming cabinet and VP are of people who will do everything to meet their goals, in spite of what others, including major majorities support. They are also heavily backed by corporate interests, which are run by ruthless people. In several cases, they are the corporate interest running the government. The ideological plan is trickle down and making a buck is the ultimate value. Some of these people have never been out of the city to be in truly in nature. A pristine forest is merely dirt, real-estate, to exploit to make the economy grow and make short-term jobs. The larger profits will stay at the top as history has shown for centuries and particularly documented in the last 20 years. Our national treasures maybe devastated, not unlike Europe's condition after the industrial revolution and a couple of world wars. Only very remote areas have not been affected significantly, there. The treasures where I live are already also effected, but there has been mitigation among differing parties, and being a vast region has helped.

There are two things that I hope for. One hope lies in the time frame. It will take a few years and then more for them to truly exploit the drilling and mining "rights", which are not "rights" at all, but giveaways. Two, there is significant majority resistance to corporate government and exploitation of these treasures. The government doesn't yet have absolute power, and only a minority trust it anymore. There will be knock down of environmental protections, Bush did that each day of his first 100 days, but it will take time to implement the actual destruction of our naturist playgrounds. I see sections of this wonderful ironwood ecosystem bladed over wholesale everyday. You can't begin to guess how that makes me feel.

Another factor, is amazing to me. I have never seen this. At first it was unbelievable to me. First there was this paler on so many people. Outright depression, fears of what may come overwhelming them. For some others, there has been hope that it wouldn't be so bad. "It" being not just environmental concerns, but civil rights and the democratic processes. Then, as weeks went by and cabinet picks began to show the true radical nature of the future administration, they realized that it ain't just Bush to endure again, but something perceived as a severe threat. I began to read on social media about people my age, in their 60's, pledging to take to the streets to protect their values and their democracy. In private, I have heard even more radical stances. I haven't seen this in 40 or 50 years, during the upheaval of my coming of age. Then, there is a significant polling among youth, under 30, who are outraged.

As we learned in the late 60's, there is a tendency for escalating reciprocal reactions. This is what is happening.  For example, two days after the election the state and local authorities felt emboldened to up the ante against the Water Protectors at Standing Rock. Just wait until water cannons and flash grenades are unleashed in freezing weather on middle class baby-boomers. Although the revolution will not be televised on corporate media, unless something goes 14 million viral first, the word and support is getting out and exploding. So, with civil unrest, there may be action to quell the pitchforks coming at them. There will of course be reciprocation again, but this has always brought more radical movement. Back and forth, it may very well curb the right-wing government now in power, if they want to stay there. Otherwise, they will have to move, as they have been, to totalitarian actions. I remember the 60's, how it happened and everything is in place, only to a greater extent and this time the older patriots, retiring with time on their hands are in the mix. The environment and civil rights are making flashpoints and the election reflected that.

So, here we sit, naked, wondering if we will have places to know naturism anymore and worried about the wish of one religion to impose it upon us, like an American Taliban. It won't happen quickly, just Trump's crony meld of power to the ruling class (don't get me wrong, I recognize that there are good intentions among them) can be more immediate, and in court, corporations who own the courts, will fight as if they are valid contracts to keep them enforced into the future. They can be overturned just as quickly, in a volatile atmosphere. The pendulum is way out there, some of its influence may be for the best, among us here we have Trump supporters and idealist. There is merit to some of it, they may be proven wrong, or correct. But, unrest will curb its swing and hopefully balance will result.

There are other unforeseen mitigating possibilities that may bring things to a head. Like the possibility of amazing climate driven crisis.  From what I have read, the rest of the world is opposed to the new administration and fears it. The old USA global influence and dominance is coming apart at the seams. There will be growing resistance both in and out of the country. As the pendulum swings, there is hope that naturism, religious freedom, God's bounty itself, less intrusive government surveillance, peace and prosperity for all, may occur. Those values unite all of us against greed, lies and power for the few.

So, I'm going to enjoy what I have, set up and organize resistance to the taking of those naturist values. I'll post about it here. My political opinions, I'll keep to myself. We have agreed to not discuss politics unless it is directly naturism, here. My naturism is still a major way to let off the steam from what will be another's obsession, as things escalate. I have learned the basic nature of living. Outside of this website, politically, I'll be busy like I haven't been for years. It will be nasty fun.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

I am beginning to have a real fear with this new administration and the cabinet picks. Although unlike many of our western friends we do not have any nude use areas to protect around here. However, after years of abuse our ecosystems have recovered from mining and industry pollutants and I fear a return to much deregulation will set things back.

I don't share your fear of the Trump administration.   Several months ago we had a big controversy when Obama demanded free access to cross dressing restrooms by anyone who "feels like" the other sex.  There were a lot of protests at Target Stores for implementing Obama's restroom policy.  Some reporters went and asked Trump about the Obama policy.  Trump said it is State's authority and not a federal government issue.  He appeared to be the only recent candidate of either Party that understood having a 10th Amendment of our Constitution.  He also said that there would be no problems in his Trump Towers for people to use whatever restroom they "feel" like using.  The media immediately buried the story because it didn't fit with their "Trump is anti-gay" rhetorical bashing.  Media rhetoric is starkly different from the real Trump on many issues.

Trump's wife is from a country where nudity is not so punished and she has also appeared nude in photos from her modeling career.   There will also be much less Muslim influence in American government under Trump compared to the recent administration or what a Hitlery administration would have done.  Can you imagine ISIS or Muslim Brotherhood setting policy on nudity?   

The worst I would expect from the Trump administration is an avoidance of taking a stand on "A State issue." 

[Greenbare Woods]

As we learned in the late 60's, there is a tendency for escalating reciprocal reactions. This is what is happening.  For example, two days after the election the state and local authorities felt emboldened to up the ante against the Water Protectors at Standing Rock.
Jbee

They just finished an election for Governor in North Dakota.  As President Obama said, "Elections have consequences."   

The newly elected Governor of North Dakota has asked federal authorities to stop blocking energy production and transportation in his state.  North Dakota people seem to think that "Water Protectors" is rhetorical nonsense, and protest people from other states should go home.

I'm not sure what this has to do with nudity in North Dakota except when you back people into a corner and threaten them you often create more backlash than intended.  A lot of the recent election in America, and the Brexit vote in the UK was by people who felt threatened and desperate.

Promoting nudity has to be peaceful encounters rather than forceful or violent demonstrations.

Bob

[jbeegoode]

Yea Bob, maybe the first lady can talk sense to VP, or override his influence and he will eventually become background like the others. Trump may not be a nudist, we don't know how he would respond to "what about the kids", but he has been loose in his life. So far, Trump isn't doing that. We wait and see, that's all that we can do with Federal nudity policy, except locally.
Jbee

[jbeegoode]

We spoke with the district head ranger this morning. We have made some progress.

We came in with an agenda. Our first objective was to inform him and eliminate any preconceived notions that he might have.

We gave evidence of a history nude use in the canyon at Redington Pass. I carried a 1981 publication of “World Guide to Nude Beaches” listing it and testified to my personal use and experiences over 45 years.

Another goal was to express the notion that naturism is a not a fringe, not immoral, healthy and a wholesome activity. We submitted the Naturist Society polls showing national okay for nude use area set asides at two thirds majority and California 81% approval, etc. We explained that naturism is often family oriented. Ed, an activist of early free beach movements, gave anecdotal testimony on how such a community works. I debunked the myth of child endangerment from a nude body from my professional research into the topic. Being around nude recreation is actually, to the contrary, healthy for children. We showed him that naturist recreation is now a billion dollar industry, that many of the users of Redington Pass are from around the world.

We explained that the”gay pickup venue” concerns were propagated by internet traffic and homosexuality is often projected onto straight nude men in the area, not that gay people don’t frequent the area. We expressed that LGBT are welcomed and a part of us.

When discussing this, his concern was overt sexual solicitation complaints. He had gotten wind of this from a Forest Service worker who stated that he had been overtly solicited while working there. This of course, is something that has potential in any social setting. We explained how typically, a woman finds herself with several protective brother figures, if she is confronted. I told him of my interviews with users that there was once a guy diddling and that he was confronted and timidly left.

The atmosphere is less obnoxious, more respectful, a sense of space and solitude is generally given, than other clothed areas. People adhere to the Forest Service guidelines.

He asked about the demographics, how many users and how organized are we. I explained all ages, younger people are coming in and children are there frequently. We threw out a number of 20 to 30 users that can be found there in a day, undocumented. We explained the clothed use is more during times of water and more downstream, where there a larger pools. Naturist activities don’t require the water as much. Rock surface, solitude and sunbathing don’t require as much water. I was candid about organization. We have a great deal of support. We verbally gave him a list of organizations local and statewide, numbering thousands of supporters. We mentioned the national Naturist Society support that we have been receiving.

He doesn’t want complaints and has received few. We explained that naturist culture discourages overt sexuality.
He is concerned that a nude area would be a problem as population increases and cited Sabino Canyon’s evolution.

He again told us that addressing the nude area is a low priority at this time. We can relax.

He is a man of process and community input. For him to get things done, he must manage for everyone. I have mentioned “Friends Of Redington Pass” to each of you that have received this email. He would like us to interact with them. We need to show a more full community support for the nude use and he does listen to them. I suggest contacting them and getting involved. We need to refurbish their report and references to nude use. We need to attend their meetings and speak out as a group, be represented in a group process and change that section of the report.

A clean up group of naturists would help our cause, especially when the Forest Service is involved. I told him of those who pack out trash each visit. They have materials to clean rocks.

Our other goal in our meeting was to propose a solution to potential problems, and to sustain nude use. Both we and government bureaucracy can appreciate less public bruhah, so we decided to not ask for a designated clothing optional area.  We knew that we had been correct when he explained and verified this, noting that there were people in the bureaucracy that would be opposed to such.

Our proposal was to simply put up a sign that notes, “Attention, you may encounter nude recreation beyond this sign.” This merely informs the public that such activity may be encountered, a warning. We went with this for several reasons, as follows.

We know that those who might object are a very few. We know that some others unfamiliar with social nudity, can be uncomfortable, simply because it is new to them. We often have found these joining us and giving it a try. We know that the vast majority have no problem with nudity at all. Such a sign would stop surprises to the minority. One woman thought that the signage was a prank and came anyway.

Being nude is not illegal. Exposing specific parts of the body is. Doing it for sexual gratification and creating victims is. The state statute requires that a “reasonable person” would be “offended or alarmed”.  A person knowingly entering an area posted with a warning and then still being alarmed is not reasonable.  We acknowledged that the law would be difficult to enforce.

This signage would protect all of the users of Redington Pass, without an official, political, or controversial designation. It merely gives warning, as do the flashflood warnings.

Signage is the hot topic with the forest service and the Friends of Redington Pass, right now. We said that we could pay for the sign. That would require some fundraising and maybe a volunteer welder. Again, we need to be involved with Friends of Redington Pass. Some of us are concerned with anonymity. You don’t have to identify as a naturist to participate, only support nude use. Other than our concerns, the issues have been addressed well and with inclusive process within their organization. It is a worthy organization and our influence can be felt there, if only some casual conversation with others.
We discussed the unofficial signage and spray paint. One official sign would suffice and fulfill the need to exert domain, eliminating the awkward defilements.

One of his concerns is Tucson population growth in the future. This is our greatest threat. The downstream area was clothing optional for many years. Slowly, I watched the culture change as new people frequented it. That’s what drove us out. That’s why the trail was created, but now, we would have no place to go. We need to act now to preserve what we have. We will need more history of use and cooperation with the Forest Service in the future to preserve our sanctuary. We need to be safe and legal. Our naturist culture already has what is needed to do these things and educate the public. When naturists know that it is safe and not “anything goes” the numbers will grow and sustain. This is the groundwork toward the foundation of what could one day be a designated clothing optional area, or without action, we will lose our place and freedoms.

We need naturists, either standing as such, or just in support, involved in the Friends of Redington Pass. With this vehicle, and support, we can have the protective signage that we need to secure nude use. The reaction to our meeting was that the ranger is open to such signage with a show of support, through community process, particularly Friends of Redington Pass. We can do this.
I wrote:
Contact Friends of Redington Pass to get involved, which may be just speaking up in an email, serving on a committee, to running the show. It’s your choice:

We need to be involved in cleanup.

This can be organized and coordinated through the list that I am creating. We can have letter and email writing, and/or phone call campaigns, if needed. We can pack halls, if needed. We can show organization and solidarity with other pro-naturist groups.

As what has been already been happening:

We need to confront “didlers.” and politely object to common voyeurs. We don’t want controversy.

We need to look out for each other.

We need to greet newcomers, clothed or not, in a friendly manner, even sometime try sell naturism to them.

 We need to discourage any overt sexual solicitations, i.e., the pick-up behaviors.

[nudewalker]

I have found that direct contact with some authority figures is the best option. At least twice when I broached the subject with park rangers their response was an out of sight out of mind approach. In simpler terms; if no one  sees you no one will complain then they don't have to respond and make a report. There has not been, as far as I know, any issue with what was considered a clothing optional area. In fact, other than a few undeveloped areas I frequented as a college student, I know of no places near me where clothing optional activities happen.

I applaud your efforts Jbee and keep us posted on progress, developments or setbacks. If it ever happens that I would have the chance to make a case for such a place as Redington Pass it would be nice to have a blueprint to go by.

[jbeegoode]

I forgot to mention this. Yesterday was busy.

After he inquired about other places that people go nude, I inquired about nude hiking, pointed toward the mountains and suggested "in general." He mentioned that the wilderness areas are meant to be managed basically with as little impact and resources as possible. The two go hand in hand. The impression that I received is a general notion that in the wilder more remote areas, enforcement of mere nudity would not be an issue. In other words, it seems that unless an individual is making a habit of being sexually overt or aggressive, then it probably won't be dealt with. He was speaking in general, not just his district.

So, time and resources, coupled with the philosophy, it is impractical to run around being concerned about nude hikers. I shouldn't expect a legal problem nude hiking. I didn't ask if he was referring to just designated wilderness because he was using that as an example. It seems that there is grey and one just needs to use some common sense and nude hike away from the busy trails. Once one gets away from campgrounds and you don't see someone else every few minutes, we can freely hike and camp.  I would caution that closer to a trailhead with lots of traffic, a sheriff may wait, if it makes sense to him/her and someone makes a complaint and commits to appearing in court, has a picture or something.

This made me feel much more comfortable about hiking nude. There are many places where we wouldn't have to keep so alert as our honed craft often requires. This would be most of the mountain forests around here. Again, we know that maybe two in one hundred would take offense. I'll just be polite about my activities, particularly in wilderness. I like some privacy, I'm not particularly, personally, caring if someone sees my nude body, but I like others to feel comfortable and not be confused when they bump into their own humanity. On the other hand, it may be time for them to sort themselves out and get used to it. It isn't my responsibility. In more remote areas, I'll feel more comfortable to take any textile encounters as I feel.

If one was hiking in a primitive area and bumped into a naked tribal native, would it be reasonable that one or the other be offended?

Its going to be 79F 80F highs and sunny this weekend. We have been waiting for months for this. I don't know about DF, but I intend to get into a lower elevation trek. I'd love to try out my new SUL set up overnight. The night will be around 50F. I'd just lie down in my bivy, with my warm camping quilt, and the hood on the ghost whisperer jacket and watch the stars. I might even find myself too warm. It is still too early for most bugs and snakes. I wouldn't even need the no-see-um screen. And all the warm day, I'll not be concerned with encounters and covering up, but to just be myself. No need for stealth.
Jbee

[eyesup]

As what has been already been happening:

We need to confront “didlers.” and politely object to common voyeurs. We don’t want controversy.

We need to look out for each other.

We need to greet newcomers, clothed or not, in a friendly manner, even sometime try sell naturism to them.

We need to discourage any overt sexual solicitations, i.e., the pick-up behaviors.

This is the sort of managing I hear about on CO beaches. It works there. Spending time on a beach in the ocean and sunbathing seem to be an accepted activity in the nude. I guess hiking needs to achieve that same acceptation.

I like some privacy, I'm not particularly, personally, caring if someone sees my nude body, but I like others to feel comfortable and not be confused when they bump into their own humanity. On the other hand, it may be time for them to sort themselves out and get used to it. It isn't my responsibility.

I feel the same. It's the bother and hassle I don't want if someone decides to make a case or a point.

Duane