Author Topic: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions  (Read 4034 times)

BlueTrain

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2020, 11:46:12 AM »
Okay, first of all, this is (I think) supposed to be a forum where one exchanges ideas and opinions with other participants. We have learned recently that in some circles, having a different opinion is not tolerated and one gets excluded from the circle. I hope that is not the case here.

Secondly, don't overthink these things. These are not academic papers being presented.

Now, on to the important stuff. In the discussion of food, nutrition, health and sunscreen, the core issue is the consumption and use of food and nutrition. How it affects your health and longevity. The profitability (or not) of the producers and the chain of hands that gets it to the supermarket shelf or the stand at the farmer's market on Saturday morning makes no difference to the product itself. It is true there may be ethical issues involved but those are separate issues. Likewise, the profitability of a corporation or the individual farmer at the farmer's market is of no consequence to the consumer and it's unlikely he would ever know what it was anyway. However, the cost (that is, the selling price) of the product is usually very important to the consumer, especially for those without a lot of spare change in their pocket. And finally, there is no direct link between the cost (what it costs the seller) and the price (what the consumer pays). The cost is whatever it is and the producer and all those in-between do not, contrary to public opinion, have complete control of the cost. It goes without saying that they put a lot of effort into managing the costs but that's about it. And the selling price, absent government cost controls or the existence of a cartel or unregulated monopoly, is determined by the market place. Morality, fair play and concern for the consumer is usually completely absent beyond the desire to retain customers. That's the real world and there's a little more to it than will fit in one paragraph. It isn't my intent to defend market economics or capitalism but merely to explain it. There's no need to like it. Feel free to be critical. Marx (Karl, not Groucho) was very critical of the way it worked. I am trying to separate the discussion of food, nutrition (and sunscreen) from economics.

I also want to mention that greed enters into the matter, which word I think has entered the discussion once or twice already. Greed, as far as it affects the product, results in selling or attempting to sell, poor quality products or products deceptively advertised. Not only that, but forcing employees to work longer hours without appropriate pay or under dangerous conditions. I suppose greed is human nature. Hoarding a scarce product is a mild form of it. It's probably unfortunate that the super-rich run the big corporations that supply us with food and keep us fat and happy and I doubt that few of them have any moral character whatsoever. You get to be super-rich by being greedy, although it sure helps to inherit some of it. Forgive me for saying all this if you happen to be among the super-rich.

Profit is not part of cost; it's that part of the selling price left over after the cost.

Bob Knows

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2020, 03:22:15 PM »
Before and after quitting vegetables for an all carnivore diet.  Related to avoiding sunburn without chemicals.


From Ken Nelson

"Before and after shots of my progress with skin issues of eczema. Doctors couldnít help, only made it worse with their drugs that messed up my adrenal glands. I had this issue for years and life was Hell at times.

"The Carnivore diet cured me and got my life back. I will never eat plant based so-called foods again.

"Iím 60 now and all my joint pain has gone as well and I feel great. I'm even back inline skating twice a week and my knees never better.

"There really is nothing better than being the best 'you'.

"Being Carnivore has enabled me to get back in the gym after suffering with forearm tendonitis and joint pain for years.

"Among a host of other things."

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156629457201962&set=pcb.640822620011719&type=3&theater
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 11:12:47 PM by Bob Knows »
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
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BlueTrain

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2020, 03:50:41 PM »
So I should follow the advice of someone almost 15 years younger than me?

Safebare

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2020, 05:53:03 PM »
Follow your heart Blue Train. You may be surprised where it will lead you 😉.
Yes, you should consider the advice of those younger than yourself. Whether or not you follow it should rest in your heart. I've learned a lot from people of all ages and even more from those that didn't say anything.
Bob, I am delighted that you have found something that helps with the pain of aging. Thank you for sharing it. I can't see me jumping on the carnivore bandwagon, but it is interesting.
Be Safe,
~Safebare

BlueTrain

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2020, 06:31:21 PM »
Hopefully I did and there I am.

jbeegoode

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #95 on: February 02, 2020, 07:27:23 PM »
Holy cripe Bob! Dat sure ugly! That guy had some unusual problem, but I doubt that it was the veggies that was doing it. I would think that it would be more likely that medication, or other substances (food) that he was eating and how. Glad to see the remedy working for him. He is obviously getting exercise with his diet, too.

I went from high cholesterol and lost 50 pounds over several months to recommended weight for my height. I was sluggish, getting winded easily, much less agile, rollercoaster mood swings from sugars in my blood, typical overweight stuff, irregular bowels and hemorrhoids, felt that I was getting old, didn't feel as sexy and younger than this guy. I felt clogged up and didn't even know it, thinking that it was normal.

All of that went away with veggie, mostly raw, and exercise became easier. Food became even tastier. I'm still honing it. I feel like I'm getting younger. All of my tests say that I'm healthy as a horse. Other than prostrate having me drip longer and a bit more urgency at times and a hernia, which is probably a need for more movement and exercise, I'm good to go and moving better and more trim than most of my peers. It is dramatic. That is why I strive to keep up with it, the results are like blessings. Then, there is the meditation and lifestyle and other good things that I do.

So, I was diagnosed with low Vitamin D and added one raw egg to the diet and kept getting more naked sun. JUst one egg.

I eat sushi once a week and some sardines sometimes, usually. I enjoy a veggie pizza sometimes. Some variety is good and probably relatively harmless. I fast when I fall too far off of the wagon.

So, veggies work for me. Conventional medicine tells us that eating just meat is extreme and long term problems are likely for most of us doing the same, but doctors are very often wrong about things, not all things, but many things over the years, like breast milk, cholesterol, thyroids, to name just three.

If I found my body reacting like that, I'd fast and cleanse. Did he use antibiotic soaps? His blood flow was bad.

So, where do you get your B-12? Do you eat liver for iron? Are you concerned about the polluted liver of factory farm animals? I used to eat kosher chopped liver, back when I was not doing as well while eating lots of meat.

A dear friend of mine died yesterday in ICU. Walking down the street and got hit by a car wreck. He had had a heart attack a few years ago, and was taking much better care of himself.
Jbee
Barefoot all over, all over.

Bob Knows

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2020, 11:19:39 PM »
So, where do you get your B-12? Do you eat liver for iron? Are you concerned about the polluted liver of factory farm animals? I used to eat kosher chopped liver, back when I was not doing as well while eating lots of meat. Jbee

Eating a carnivore diet you get plenty of B-12, iron, and omega-3 from the meat. It also turns out that most of what Vitamin C is used for is to digest plants, so very little is needed on a zero plant diet.

Carnivore people (like the above example I posted) don't get sunburned without using all the toxic chemicals. Healthy skin just takes care of it while making vitamin D. 
Bob
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 11:24:30 PM by Bob Knows »
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Bob Knows

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #97 on: February 02, 2020, 11:21:06 PM »
So I should follow the advice of someone almost 15 years younger than me?

I'm never too old to learn.  I learned about carnivore way of eating from my youngest son who is almost 40 years younger.  I only wish I had the information available when I was his age.

Bob
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
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BlueTrain

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2020, 12:44:03 AM »
I think diet and eating is only one part of the picture. I'm not so certain about fasting, though. Mind you, a lot turns on how active you are. People, usually men, who do heavy manual work need a lot more to eat than someone like me, who could easily get by on two meals a day, which I try to do. Of course, few actually do heavy manual labor anymore? No matter what I eat, though, if I eat more than I need to, I'll gain weight. I suspect that serious changes in one's weight may be harder on your system than what one weighs to begin with. I for one, however, cannot afford to lose much weight. It just isn't there.

Okay, here's the naturist part again (not the nudist part). I believe it is essential to maintain an active outdoor lifestyle as much as possible. It isn't always possible, of course, given that we usually have to work for a living. And I've known more than a few ladies who lived to a respectable old age without having an active outdoor life. But ask any housewife if keeping a house is active or not.

By an active outdoor life, I just mean getting outside and doing something every day, like going on a good walk. I don't care for tramping around on the sidewalk, like my wife does (she walks a lot more than I do) but I'm lucky in that there are woods behind my house, giving me the opportunity to take about a two-mile walk through the woods, which is just about right. I see a lot of people out walking, and some running, too. I just don't see the grossly overweight people that Americans are supposed to all be these days. But perhaps they all stay indoors. The dog walkers are out, too, and it's said a dog is good because it gets you outside everyday.

So, I don't think there are any secrets to be found or magic pills. There's a certain amount of effort you have to expend, naturally. You can't simply have the perfect diet and just sit there. Dick Van Dyke says you have to keep moving. That may be easier said than done. It's good for your joints if you don't overdo it and it's good for your digestion as well as your appetite. Some old book says a little wine might be good, too. I know next to nothing about things like yoga and calisthenics, while probably the best thing you could do, just seems so old-fashioned. Doing manual work is good in more ways than one. If you aren't doing some manual labor, that is, doing something with your hands, you're living the life of cattle.

Most of what's in this thread belongs in the other one about "if you thought clothing was bad." These things happen. Older outdoor manuals never mention sunscreen or sunblock except in a mountaineering context. Suntan lotions have been around at least since the war and the kind that lifeguards sometimes put on their noses is older. The old manuals always mention insect repellant and some of those concoctions sound like they would be reasonably good sunblocks, too. But the kind of insect repellants we use have been around longer than most of us have, except in aerosol cans. It isn't like people were always well dressed, either. One pre-war writer mentions hiking without a shirt but I don't remember what he said about sun tans and the like.

ric

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2020, 09:34:29 AM »
the one thing thats often forgotten when people promote any particular diet or health trick is that we all have different lifestyles,  exposure to outside elements, emfs , chemicals, levels of light, levels of physical activity to mention a few.  thats before we start on our own sensitivities , alergies and even ethics/morals.

we must all remember that whatever is right for us as individuals is not necessarily going to be right for anyone else.

all we can or perhaps even should do is report whats worked for us and then let anyone else make their own informed decision.

in my own case with respect to sunscreen its simple i dont use it,  mainly because i dont want to cook my skin in untested chemicals.   ill burn if im exposed to too much sun.... time varies with intensity.  id rather use shade or even clothing if i have to.  workwise im usually in a position to decide whether to remain out in the sun or work in the shade, but i accept that not everyone has that freedom.   


BlueTrain

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2020, 01:48:49 PM »
There's no two ways about it: some people are more sun sensitive than others. Black Africans, it was said, carry their own sun protection. White and "colored" (according to this old book) need protection. That was well before sun screens. The language and vocabulary was quaint, to be sure, but once it was translated into modern terms, it was perfectly sensible and still relevant. It is the ultra-violet rays of the sun that cause skin damage, apparently. Old books prescribe what now seem bizarre solutions to the problem, including orange or black undergarments. But the same old sun still shines. One book casually mentions in passing that the soldiers wore no underwear except for socks and shirt, a shirt being considered as an undergarment at the time. They were almost knee-length and that was generally true everywhere.

We generally enter the world and grow up in a family under circumstances over which we have no control. We eat what we're given and whatever it is has probably been what everyone in the region eats, too, more or less. Migrations, especially mass migrations, stirs the pot. Probably, the general overall diet of a population, regionally, is going to be what is best for them, given availability and requirements. Only relatively recently have we really been able to eat just about anything we want without regards to seasonality. I would also suggest that 'most' people can afford to keep themselves well-fed, although people of lower income spend a larger proportion of their income on food. And I also suggest that for those of us on this forum, food cost is not a critical factor in what we eat. And for those of us who are married, our wives will probably outlive us, no matter what. Mine almost certainly will. She's seven years younger.

jbeegoode

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #101 on: February 04, 2020, 04:51:30 AM »
If I acclimate to the sun, by being out in it, naked, then it won't be surprised and a deep tan will suffice. If I stay inside, or in clothes and suddenly expose my self to the sun, then there may be consequences. If I jet from one climate to the next, like winter to tropical beach, then I'll need to be careful. It isn't a natural way for a human being to travel like that and not have the time to acclimate the skin. That is natural humanity, but most of us don't live naturally, so it is like ric says.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #102 on: February 04, 2020, 12:01:00 PM »
If I were living naturally, I'd be living in a cave. But birds build nests, don't they? Besides, a good cave is hard to find.

jbeegoode

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2020, 04:38:23 PM »
Lots of olden time shelters are just sophisticated bird nests upside down. People around here used to spend lots of time outside, maybe under a ramada. They wore little or nothing in the heat and beautiful days. They had some dark skin adaptation, but got darker still, I'd say, by knowing the local natives.

I don't know what they did in the winter cold days. They left no clothing artifacts, but some in other regions used plants, maybe skins. This region has only found some reed huaraches sandals.

Bottom line a body gets used to it, in increments.
Jbee
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BlueTrain

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Re: Sunscreen Health Issues and Solutions
« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2020, 07:54:10 PM »
The logical thing to do is to make only the shelter you need. Even if you lived in a conventional wood-framed house, that's still true, although the question of how much you need may never be answered. If you have a big family, you will need a larger house. And if you're the kind of family that likes to join the parents in bed on Saturday morning, you might wish for a larger bed, too.

Regarding more primitive societies, a few of which still exist, everybody generally has a shelter (that is, a house) as good as the next person or their space in a communal shelter. That's not true for us. It's also true that in primitive societies, there are good years and there are lean year, which has nothing to do with shelter. But everywhere I've lived, shelter was an absolute necessity for most of the year. In a few places, people are, or were until very recently, still living in the first shelters built by the pioneers.