Author Topic: Encounters...what to do?  (Read 72082 times)

jbeegoode

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #240 on: November 03, 2016, 08:37:09 PM »
Stuart and Karla did go on the NEWT one year, but it wasn't 2014. I'd know!

My friend Milt Lewis wrote up the 2014 trip for N magazine, mostly illustrated with pictures by me. As you know, JBG, the Naturist Society only pays for pictures, but I gave Milt half the money.
I give it back to pay my membership fees and the rest is for NAC. Makes me feel good.
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JOhnGw

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #241 on: November 03, 2016, 09:36:30 PM »
On the subject of children and nudity my opinion is that children are not traumatised by seeing naked people but they are by their parents' reaction.
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

eyesup

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #242 on: November 04, 2016, 04:08:45 PM »
I believe the post I found was from 2014 referring to a trip they did in 2013.
There was one photo in the galleries from the trip.

Duane

Bob Knows

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #243 on: November 04, 2016, 04:30:14 PM »
Back when I was a Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout troop (in New Mexico, USA) I was often taking the boys on a hike in the mountains.   I never took them to a nearby hot springs in the National Forest because of fear that some parents would object to them seeing naked people, or getting naked themselves.   The McCauley hot spring was one of my favorite personal destinations, but with Scouts I worried that some parents would complain.  There was another troop which hiked to the hot spring every year.  Their parents didn't seem to mind the kids seeing naked people.  Perhaps I should have been more bold.  Dealing with parents can be tricky.  My opinion was that it would benefit Boy Scouts to swim naked in a public spring, but I was never confident enough in the other parents. 
Human bodies are natural, comfortable, and green.
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JOhnGw

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #244 on: November 04, 2016, 04:42:53 PM »
Back when I was a Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout troop (in New Mexico, USA) I was often taking the boys on a hike in the mountains.   I never took them to a nearby hot springs in the National Forest because of fear that some parents would object to them seeing naked people, or getting naked themselves.   The McCauley hot spring was one of my favorite personal destinations, but with Scouts I worried that some parents would complain.  There was another troop which hiked to the hot spring every year.  Their parents didn't seem to mind the kids seeing naked people.  Perhaps I should have been more bold.  Dealing with parents can be tricky.  My opinion was that it would benefit Boy Scouts to swim naked in a public spring, but I was never confident enough in the other parents.
If you were that cautious, just think what other more timid souls might avoid.
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

eyesup

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #245 on: November 04, 2016, 05:22:38 PM »
While in Scouts we were at a couple places where a few of the boys saw naked people or topless women. On a backpacking trip to Havasupai Falls in the Grand Canyon and another backpacking trip to Arizona Hot Springs where they were able to go up to the springs. We simply warned them that it was possible and if they did see naked people we told them to behave properly and not embarass the people or themselves.

I am not aware of anything that came of it. We tried to teach the boys the right way to behave out in public as a member of society. We had a policy of the troup being a "boy led" troup. We ran into some difficulties but the intent was that they learn through their own efforts with guidance from us. We lost a few boys from the troup over the years because some parents were uncomfortable with that philosophy. But not many. That always made me feel better about the time I spent in the organization.

We were actually more concerned about the Arizona Hot Springs, not for the nudity, but because it is a spring where the brain eating amoeba "Nagleria Fowleri" has infested the water. We made sure to tell them to not get water in their eyes, ears or mouth. That was a bigger worry than seeing a naked person. That nasty bugger would actually destroy your brain as opposed to what some parents feared about kids seeing naked bodies.

Duane

Davie

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #246 on: November 04, 2016, 05:27:57 PM »
Its a possibility that kids will see naked people of a walk or perhaps on a beach. I think that's no big deal. However if they are taken with the intent to either see or have them take part in nude activity - then the Safeguarding mafia will descend and depending on the intent of the taker, then perhaps there may well  be cause for concern. 

Davie  8)

nudewalker

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #247 on: November 04, 2016, 05:46:10 PM »
The Safeguarding Mafia! I got a robot call last night but thankfully due to the poor quality of our answering machine the only thing I heard was a young girl who identified herself as being twelve stating she was too young to see a naked man. Sorry there is not much more to add as to the call but I would imagine it had to do with trans-genders using the bathroom they identify with as to their sexual orientation or disposition. There is a fear on my part, perhaps unfounded, that despite the results of this election many rights will be trampled along with any hope of nude acceptance.
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

jbeegoode

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #248 on: November 04, 2016, 08:18:54 PM »
The Safeguarding Mafia! I got a robot call last night but thankfully due to the poor quality of our answering machine the only thing I heard was a young girl who identified herself as being twelve stating she was too young to see a naked man. Sorry there is not much more to add as to the call but I would imagine it had to do with trans-genders using the bathroom they identify with as to their sexual orientation or disposition. There is a fear on my part, perhaps unfounded, that despite the results of this election many rights will be trampled along with any hope of nude acceptance.
Oh wonderful....
Organized funding lumping homophobia into nude issues, using the "What about the kids" argument!!! There are now legal court actions beginning, to settle this question of transgender interaction, which most likely will help our interests. BUT, that kind of propaganda could be very damaging. I don't know how you all stand on the gay rights, which seem to be coming, but maybe we need to organize with LGBT etc. They have their sh.. together and generally accept body freedom with basically the same enemies as we. On the other hand, trying to crack the eggs that respond to "wholesome" with a "wholesome" body attitude, might be a wrong association, as they tend to see gay stuff as negative behavior.

We are dealing with a minority having influence over majority. They tend to not have much effect after the truth is told. They get more radical, more positional, but their numbers don't grow. I hope that your hunch and fears are incorrect.

Now, what can be done in the meantime? Can we contact these rabble-rousers someway? Make them think tha their tact may be losing support?
Jbee
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 08:21:34 PM by jbeegoode »
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Peter S

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #249 on: November 05, 2016, 09:55:42 AM »
On the Scout experience - a photographer I used to know once took a young lady to the woods for some unclothed photography (we're talking back to the early '70s here). Things were going well with her posing variously on a fallen tree, when a Scout troop hiked through the clearing, marching between photographer and model. They kept strictly eyes front and nothing was said. On the photographer's darkroom wall for years afterwards was a series of shots of naked girl on tree with a line of Scouts passing in front of her.

Peter
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Davie

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #250 on: November 05, 2016, 12:05:05 PM »
My wife was a Cub Leader. Quite a few years ago at one camp they took the Cubs for a late evening walk to tire them out before bed. En route they passed a car with a courting couple doing what comes naturally. There were cries of, "Akela, what are those people doing?" Replies on the lines of, "Never mind" and "hurry along" were made. None of the kids suffered any trauma but I wonder now if they ever think back to the event. I bet the courting couple do, and I bet they were more traumatised than the kids.

Davie  8)

Davie

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #251 on: November 05, 2016, 02:30:49 PM »
How times have changed.

I've red a story of three Scouts who between the wars go to their District Commissioner for a swimming test, he having a swimming pool. He tells them to hurry up and get undressed and not to cover up as they are all men together. Two strip off and the third does so eventually. Two jump in the pool and again the third hesitates. Stop messing about and get in shouted the Commissioner and pushes the boy into the pool. The boy grabs the side gets out grabs his clothes runs off and if never seen again.

Imagine that today, outraged parents, Police, social workers, the press. .. don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning the Commissioners actions which reflect a different time which wasn't all bad

Davie  8)

John P

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #252 on: November 05, 2016, 02:31:42 PM »
A couple of years ago our hiking group was at Little Rock Pond on the Long Trail in Vermont; some of us hiked in over the hills, and the rest came in by the short route from the road. While we were enjoying the pond, a very polite young man came along the trail and asked us if we'd please cover up or get into the water, as he had to lead a group of boys from a summer camp past us, to reach the spot where they planned to camp. So we obliged, and the kids came past, peeping as they went but not seeing much. So we thought that was an amusing interlude, but then a few minutes later back came the young fellow, sheepishly saying that the campsite wasn't where he thought it was, and he had to take the boys back the way they came. But then he said (obviously a little frustrated) "Oh, you don't need to cover up. It won't hurt 'em." And he added "If I weren't with the kids, I'd join you. In fact people say that a few years ago, you could be naked all the time at our camp."

So the kids passed by again, and I'm afraid that was the end of the incident. It wasn't until a minute later that my slowing brain delivered the name of what had to be the camp: it was Farm and Wilderness, run by Quakers. I know they kept up the option of nudity into this millennium, because I met one of their leaders at the Eastern Naturist Gathering some years back and he confirmed it. I recall saying "I'm impressed that you've held onto your innocence in the present age of suspicion", and he said they were trying to hold the line there. Unfortunately the world has apparently won that battle.
https://farmandwilderness.org/about-us/our-quaker-roots/

I found an article that talks about nudity at Farm and Wilderness:
http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/nature-and-nurture/Content?oid=2138038

jbeegoode

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #253 on: November 05, 2016, 06:46:25 PM »
It seems that that old PC consideration was at play. The lack of clothing excluded the Latino and Muslim kids. It is obvious to me that the Latino and Muslim kids and/or parents excluded themselves, up until the point of the nudity ban. Now, everyone has a religious and mostly cultural edict imposed on them. If they are teaching older, or new to them, values and awarenesses to urban/suburban kids, then naturism should be a part of it. HArummph!

It was Quakers who demonstrated in protest in England nude. People who lived in nature and intimately with it, bathed in rivers, lived in small, often one room, log cabins as they homesteaded, didn't have the sense of over inhibited behavior. There is a blanket of Victorian era rewriting of history, I suspect. The change in culture at the camp being written about is unusual. It has not been recorded generally in other places in our culture. The change happened and after a while it was assumed that things have always been like that.

The "playing Indian" thing was offensive to me, too. There is an attitude that people are stealing Native American culture. I see that as mostly bunk. For example, a Native American practices in a very structured frame of ritual. White kids, and Rainbow Family, etc. have adapted aspects of another culture, another spiritual system. These practices have value. It is no more unreasonably for a non-NAtive to adapt NAtive practices than for a Native to adapt Christianity, or anything else. We are free to try out any religious or spiritual practice, adapt it or reject it, piecemeal or wholesale. Human beings have been doing these things for millennia. These things change like language changes, especially without a written language. Playing Indian creates incorrect impressions of what Indian does, but throwing the babay out with the bath water is going too far. Seven generations ago, I have a Lokota medicine chief as an ancestor. I believe that it would be foolish to say that the current generation would produce something the same. An illiterate man who lived in the plains of the 1800's just couldn't think and relate like a man living on a reservation today. It is the nature of things to change and we often ignore that much of what is hasn't always been like that. Look at the Boy Scouts, The Weblo designation, the many Native American connotations and celebration.

Cripe, I have a sweat in my backyard. It is used adapting any manner of traditional practices, Nordic, Native American, etc. There is what comes naturally as well. I relate to nature in my own way, as did all of the multitudes of Native tribes. Passing a feather at a circle often works better than Robert's Rules. DF and I have experimented with vision quest, which is in many cultures and also happens naturally. We have used four directions for refection, Actual Native songs are song which are lead by those trained by elders, but we are not playing Indian. There is something expressed and heartfelt. You are to sing only four songs, but who really cares, who isn't wrapped in tradition. I am told that you don't use a traditional native sweat nude, that that is disrespectful. I suspect that that is an authentic tradition originating only in the last 150 years, but I put that aside. We use it nude and if someone finds that disrespectful then they may wear pants, or cover their sick shame in any way. Just don't take my spiritual relationships away from me, ie. be naked to relate infinitely better.

Stealing names, misrepresenting a culture, racism, okay, there are limits.

There are organizations that recreate historic culture to explore history, roots, and live. Medieval cultural knowledge especially sword fighting has been growing, not because of book learning, but because active hands-on use of the weapons teaches. Active role-play teaches social schemes. There is a place for role-play. That is how kids learn, by doing. Playing Indian, or playing white guy, that's okay, but it is best to get some authentic resources as foundation. It is best to teach respect for the diversity.
Looks like a great camp concept has some poor leadership, as of late.
Jbee
 


 
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nudewalker

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Re: Encounters...what to do?
« Reply #254 on: November 05, 2016, 10:57:35 PM »
I just got another robot call with the same kind of message. This time it was a man worried about his wife and daughters in a restroom. Funny part, it was against the GOP candidate.

Here is a link to a newspaper article concerning the first call I received.http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news-election/20161104/scared-child-robocall-outrages-dem-candidates-in-wv
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson