Encounters...what to do?

[Naked_Archer]

Well, it certainly has been a sad state of affairs. Perhaps the Ochil Hills walker was pushing his boundaries too far by getting too close to others while naked, and getting naked in a busy car park.  I'm certainly more wary of partaking in any free range naturism now, so I'll probably go back to lurking on the forum...   

[jbeegoode]

Find your place compadre. You have our collective wisdom and your stealth craft. Use it wisely and you shall thrive. Getting caught is never an option. You may have to go further. You may have to remain hyper-vigilant. You may have to limit to finding a place and then disrobing, but you shall be gifted with, not robbed of, your sacred solitude and humanity. To quote the great work of I-Ching, "Perseverance furthers."
Jbee

[nuduke]

Surprisingly, I have nothing to add!  I too share the sad outrage that the law is so vague and so inconsistently applied and that it exists in this way at all.  The law should be framed from what the person was actually doing, in case it was illegal, offensive etc., other than acting normally but without clothes (which is not illegal*) based on a clear definition of what is an is not offensive in law which doesn't currently seem to exist.  It should be based on the accused giving offense not on a witness/complainant claiming they judged they were offended.  That which it should not be based on is some hysterical woman's personal definition of what might be offensive.  What would the law be like if it simply turned on what one person in the case judged they wanted! To state a parallel - if you are a burglar and get caught you don't rely for the case on what the victim thinks you did i.e. how offended, hurt they were.  That may be material evidence or an important consideration but it is not the reason for the trial - the trial is about the fact that the burglar broke in to a property and stole something i.e. what he/she did not what the victim felt he/she did.


Oh!  I had something to add after all!


John
* I use the term 'not illegal' rather than the better grammar 'legal' because it seems to me that what is legal is very unclear whilst what constitutes being illegal is slightly better understood (but not necessarily right) and 'legal' is anything that doesn't fit into the things that are understood or judged to be illegal!

[eyesup]

Such is the nature of vaguely written laws. Written out of an urge to hand broad discretion to a judge that may see the case from a perspective not specified.

That is what is offensive. Nuduke's point is taken that a law should clearly state that actions, not emotions, are what the case should be about.

Maybe an appeal to the British, US Supreme court equivalent, is in order.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

The courts just throw out vague law in the U.S. It interferes with the constitutions rights. We must all be equal before the law. Each state can specifically make laws giving equal justice and then there is jurisdiction, but law at each level must not give so much latitude to the local judge or create confusion. Practicably, we must know what to expect, if we are to adhere to a law. All laws are held to a test, in the legislative process, or honing, unless some podunk zealot manages to get it passed, and then again in court where the whole can be tossed because a part is vague. Not that that process isn't very confusing and expensive, and manipulated.

Can't legislate morality...rant...rant.

Keep your laws off of MY body...rant...rant...rant.
Jbee

[Naked_Archer]

Find your place compadre. You have our collective wisdom and your stealth craft. Use it wisely and you shall thrive. Getting caught is never an option. You may have to go further. You may have to remain hyper-vigilant. You may have to limit to finding a place and then disrobing, but you shall be gifted with, not robbed of, your sacred solitude and humanity. To quote the great work of I-Ching, "Perseverance furthers."
Jbee

I'm ashamed to admit this, but having to be hyper vigilant, simply to be naked,  won't make for a particularly enjoyable day in the countryside.  :-/ I'd rather remain dressed, and enjoy the scenery and relax , rather than be naked, and always being on my guard / hyper vigilant. 

[nudewalker]

And I'll admit that once I started to go naked out in nature those same fears or apprehension were with me also. Quite a few times I was spooked into putting the shorts again. Then at the end of the hike drawing the conclusion that I could have been naked the whole time. As with any other skill or craft it has to be practiced to be mastered.  Soon you will know the ways; simple things like spider webs blocking the path, animals coming toward you instead of running away or noises outside of the norm in nature. Soon you won't be hyper vigilant it will become second nature.

[John P]

The courts just throw out vague law in the U.S. It interferes with the constitutions rights. ...

We're still waiting for that in Massachusetts. Here the law we would have to worry about is as follows:

CHAPTER 272. CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER.
Section 53. Penalty for certain offenses.
Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Railers and brawlers! We're no better than railers and brawlers! Now, there are legal books in all the public libraries, and I've sat down and looked at the listing of cases prosecuted under 272.53 (which dates back to 1699, by the way, though whether any of it is original is anyone's guess) and I haven't found any where it was used against anyone we'd call a naturist. In some states (Florida and California) the courts held that "lewd conduct" or the like couldn't be used against people being naked without sexual intent. But that hasn't happened here, so there's no way to know how it would go, if someone chose to fight. As we've heard in a recent story here, it's usually easier to get off some other way.

Land of the Pilgrims' pride, indeed.

[nuduke]

I'm ashamed to admit this, but having to be hyper vigilant, simply to be naked,  won't make for a particularly enjoyable day in the countryside.

This is an entirely familiar observation to me, Archer.
Most of the forays I make into country or woodland have to be done with extreme caution and on the 'Qui Vive' all the time.  On the occasions when that hasn't been needed the joy of nakedness in nature has been oh so much more deeply enjoyable.  Some of those times have been on visits to CO clubs which, whilst rare in my naturist career, have been several in number.  I remember a visit with Ian Milfmog to a club in SE england some years ago.  I just felt so free of everything on that (October) afternoon that I gave what little stuff I had, to Ian and leapt off totally naked over a meadow, gambolling and running free - free in the open with no need to look over one's shoulder.  For a delicious couple of minutes it felt sooo good.  Do you remember Ian?


John

[JOhnGw]

I've found that a side effect of the additional vigilance we impose on ourselves when walking naked is a more intense awareness of the natural world through which I am walking.

Every cloud is alleged to have a silver lining (although every silver lining would seem to need a cloud).

[ric]

i can relate to the no need to look over the shoulder thing
in years gone by i used to snatch naked time whilst i worked in absent clients gardens , always on the look out for their unexpected return.   several years ago i made took the step of informing a few clients of the fact, largly prompted by one large secluded rural garden where the teenage daughter had learnt to drive and could conceivable have turned up alone at any time whilst i was working.  upshot was whether anyone is at home or not doesnt now make ant difference to how i dress whilst im there.

this new honesty policy  resulted in a one elderly lady quetly returning an hour early from her computer class... "because it was a hot day she thought i might need a cold drink "   another who id told i always knew when she was coming out the house cos the dog came rushing down the garden, sneaking up behind me me with a cup of tea and no dog with the comment that shed left him shut in cos" he had a cold nose and liked sausages".... in both cases from then on i continued to work naked whether they were at home or not.

anyway working in someones garden knowing they are not bothered by my nakedness is a completly different mind set to doing the same thing sureptisiously always on the look out.

[eyesup]

I have noticed the same correlation, JOhn.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

Like nudewalker says, "It becomes second nature." It becomes easier. Sometimes when it is easy, I forget that I am undressed, I am so used to being naked. I'd be more aware of having clothes on, they are more foreign. My precautions just happen and when the time arises, I become more careful.

 So, like when I'm in DF's urban home, going to get something out of the truck, taking garbage out, outside anywhere naked, I am more vigilant than home, but I am more aware and that is an enhancement of my experience. At home I often wander out not paying attention in some areas of my property. I'm more apt to get seen by others there. Hyper vigilant, turns to second nature and the nude experience is as like JOhnGw says.

[nudewalker]

I remember in the old Hiking Naked site there were two threads; "Hiking without a net" and "How far away from your clothes have you been". At the time it seemed to be the supreme challenge as to pushing the envelope for the craft. I did take up the challenge a few times and had one encounter in the process which I aced head on so to speak which resulted in some insight into the behavior of birds adding to my stealth knowledge. As for second nature which I mentioned; part of the problem is one gets so used to being naked at home that your ready to just answer the doorbell, take the garbage out or go get the newspaper off the lawn without thinking of covering up. My wife once joked that instead of a swear jar maybe we should have a reminder jar for those instances she has to remind me to cover up!

[eyesup]

Just make sure you keep both jars, nudewalker. Since your wife doesn't join you in your naked activities, she would at least be contributing on one front.

Duane